Old Yeller

Butts on Lasers Working Group

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I've been following the discussions on SA regarding ILCA, LP, Olympics, etc.. since the first of the year. The constructive idea of growing the Laser game in North America one butt at a time has motivated me to join the conversation. I think there is enormous potential for growth. I'm speaking as a common everyday rank and defiled Laser sailor who wants to see his children inherit a vibrant and growing Laser scene. So this newbie is diving in with a new thread, in the spirit of those individuals who did everything they possibly could to get my butt on a Laser to the next regatta (thanks MH!). So let's throw some ideas against the wall and maybe some will stick. And let's have fun doing it!  

First idea: The North American Big Butt Award

This is a perpetual trophy given annually to the secretary from the district with the largest growth. Let's start recognizing success! Then we can ask them what the secret is. We will need to decide on the exact metrics used to determine the winner. Maybe a combination of new memberships and regatta turnout? This idea of recognizing growth could extend down to the fleets and even individual regattas. Provide incentives for sailors to bring new people into the fleet. Any ideas for the trophy itself? post pictures!

Other ideas to follow. (The Laser Reclamation Project. The Pied Piper Award. Date Night.)

cheers

 

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Great!!!

i shall do my very best to offer some positive contributions.

the following may need to be re-written multiple times to get it right but here goes:

Many times I hear or or read about “things THEY ought to be doing.”

The Class ought to, Regatta hosts ought to, our club ought to....

The fact is, for the most part, there really is no “they.”

 What little “they” we have is underfunded and undermanned.

For that reason, right or wrong, i have tried for the last few years to restrict my game growing suggestions to, “Here is some stuff I have tried or seen done by others.”

maybe somebody will be happy to take my ideas,  improve them, and put them to use. 

 

example: promoting our Wednesday night laser fleet. Different weeks I did some of the following: ( doesn’t work with cell phones ) 

I used to call people’s work answering machines on Monday. “Don’t schedule anything after four tomorrow. You know you will want to bug out and head to the lake immediately at quitting time. “

I used to call their home machines while they were at work Tuesday. “Hey!! don’t forget to load your Laser gear in the car this evening!!! “

I called work numbers after hours Tuesday night. “Sorry!! It’s gonna be hard to focus all day with tonight's races on your mind. Eat a light lunch. Dinner is at Chuy’s this week.”

 

*****

What do you do?? What do you plan to do? 

The Dallas fleet guys post a colorful Facebook wind velocity chart along with “you don’t want to miss this!!” 

Nobody is going to do anything he doesn’t feel like doing but if you tell others  about  things you already do, somebody  might be thrilled to copy or improve your great idea. 

 

 

 

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Thanks Gouv!

i saw a talk one time. Some kind of motivational talk. The guy began his speech with a slide of a lonely tomb stone. The name on the tomb stone was “Somebody Else”. Somebody else is dead. We’ll have to do it ourselves. 

i am returning to the Laser game after a long detour pursuing interests outside of sailing. Without boring you with the personal narrative, I’ll just say that a year ago I took my son to his first Opti regatta and decided that day to get back in the boat. So my personal experience with promoting the game will have to begin with that decision. 

1. Promote sailing Lasers by sailing Lasers.

then something interesting happened. Other Opti parents saw me having fun and began to talk about getting back in the boat. Then the kids got excited about their parents buying Lasers and began to ask if they could sail Lasers (this is the really cool part!). So my focus at the moment is getting every Opti parent I can in a Laser. I have one that’s back in. He’ll be at the next regatta. I have another that’s 95% there. I have two more on the radar. And half a dozen more names on the board. All of these personal connections are facilitated by a district leadership that understands the potential for growing the Laser game through this demographic by scheduling district Laser events alongside the junior regattas. 

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I've put one new butt in a Laser this week, (the second time I've flipped this boat).  I'm chartering our club boats to two other sailors.  One at this weekends regatta, (opti parent tired of the beach) and one the following weekends regatta, (says he's a previous Ireland National Champ).  Charter rate is $50, (if a club member hasn't called dibbs already).

I just hooked up a buyer with a boat I found this morning.  If he buys it I'll be up to 4 butts this week.  Now gotta get them to join the class and vote quickly!

And "yes" I have an Aero.  It points to Laser...;-)

 

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Fleet "spark plug."  Its a different role than fleet captain who deals with club to fleet stuff and internal fleet issues.  The spark plug role does not have to deal with any of those politics and is simply focused on getting new folks into the fleet.  Its often best served by somebody a bit older an who has been around for a while... someone who knows where to find boats and owners and new sailors.  Feed (and drink) this person well.  They more than anyone can make or break the fleet. 

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4 hours ago, Wess said:

Fleet "spark plug."  Its a different role than fleet captain who deals with club to fleet stuff and internal fleet issues.  The spark plug role does not have to deal with any of those politics and is simply focused on getting new folks into the fleet.  Its often best served by somebody a bit older an who has been around for a while... someone who knows where to find boats and owners and new sailors.  Feed (and drink) this person well.  They more than anyone can make or break the fleet. 

I’ve seen the spark plug in action. Very impressive! Where is he btw? He should be in on this.

 

4 hours ago, RobbieB said:

I've put one new butt in a Laser this week, (the second time I've flipped this boat).  I'm chartering our club boats to two other sailors.  One at this weekends regatta, (opti parent tired of the beach) and one the following weekends regatta, (says he's a previous Ireland National Champ).  Charter rate is $50, (if a club member hasn't called dibbs already).

I just hooked up a buyer with a boat I found this morning.  If he buys it I'll be up to 4 butts this week.  Now gotta get them to join the class and vote quickly!

And "yes" I have an Aero.  It points to Laser...;-)

 

Pulling in the parents of junior sailors is a gold mine for growth. Especially factoring in the enthusiasm of the juniors in seeing their parents on Lasers. It’s like dangling a carrot. “This is your next toy to play with!” 

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30 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

I’ve seen the spark plug in action. Very impressive! Where is he btw? He should be in on this.

 

Pulling in the parents of junior sailors is a gold mine for growth. Especially factoring in the enthusiasm of the juniors in seeing their parents on Lasers. It’s like dangling a carrot. “This is your next toy to play with!” 

Yes- where is Devin?

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31 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

I’ve seen the spark plug in action. Very impressive! Where is he btw? He should be in on this.

That is a loaded question best not answered in a public forum.  Send me a PM if you like and can chat off line.  Didn't know you Lasered.  We should get a friendly fleet going in the hood. The lightening strike has our big boat sidelined.

Edit to Add - From RobbieB's post you may be somebody other than who I thought you are; sorry.  If you have a boat by that name in my hood the offer stands.  Nothing above was directed at anyone named Devin LOL.  Now if you are talking JA...

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5 minutes ago, Wess said:

That is a loaded question best not answered in a public forum.  Send me a PM if you like and can chat off line.  Didn't know you Lasered.  We should get a friendly fleet going in the hood. The lightening strike has our big boat sidelined.

Edit to Add - From RobbieB's post you may be somebody other than who I thought you are; sorry.  If you have a boat by that name in my hood the offer stands.  Nothing above was directed at anyone named Devin LOL.  Now if you are talking JA...

Coastal Carolina by way of Texas

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5 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

Coastal Carolina by way of Texas

My bad.  Go spark plugs!!

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1 hour ago, RobbieB said:

Yes- where is Devin?

 

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This was posted in the wrong thread (this thread didn't exist at the time). There is some gold in the answer to the questions posed.

On 7/8/2019 at 9:26 AM, Tcatman said:

Butts on boats.      everyone agrees.... my preference would be butts on two hulls... but its not about the boat...

In San Fran..   lots of money... good breeze.... So...  What does the Laser RACING SCENE  (or ANY single handed boat) look like?  

Is there a club or series of events that allow you to go 5 hours of racing  One day a week?  Twice a month?   One evening a week?  and that have a critical mass of people that gives you a sense of competing.    ( i use the standard of 10 boats... ... so three on the bottom of the pecking order... 4 in the middle and 3  on top of the pecking order...   Racing without competition is not going to sustain year after year)  If you don't have a racing program.... you are not going to market a racing boat.   Is there a racing program that you could market to sailors and newbies coming out of learn to sail programs.  So... you start with what you have and ask... What can we do to grow

and the 2019 question.... is there anybody building a structure that gets 20 and 30 somethings out there as butts on the boat.   There are tons of possible racers sitting on the rail of a keelboat who MIGHT be persuaded to join a club with laser availability to race similar kinds of sailors...     ANYTHING positive that you could highlight as possibly growing the number of butts on boats.

Gouv takes the old school approach to put butts on boats...   one big event a year and weeknight racing........ Is that enough?.... New Ideas?

Oops... did not know you were NA class president..   So... point to any area of the country where positive action for getting butts on boats is happening.  TIA

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4 hours ago, BruceH-NZ said:

This was posted in the wrong thread (this thread didn't exist at the time). There is some gold in the answer to the questions posed.

   On 7/7/2019 at 5:26 PM,  Tcatman said: 

Butts on boats.      everyone agrees.... my preference would be butts on two hulls... but its not about the boat...

In San Fran..   lots of money... good breeze.... So...  What does the Laser RACING SCENE  (or ANY single handed boat) look like?  

 Is there a club or series of events that allow you to go 5 hours of racing  One day a week?  Twice a month?   One evening a week?  and that have a critical mass of people that gives you a sense of competing.    ( i use the standard of 10 boats... ... so three on the bottom of the pecking order... 4 in the middle and 3  on top of the pecking order...   Racing without competition is not going to sustain year after year)  If you don't have a racing program.... you are not going to market a racing boat.   Is there a racing program that you could market to sailors and newbies coming out of learn to sail programs.  So... you start with what you have and ask... What can we do to grow

and the 2019 question.... is there anybody building a structure that gets 20 and 30 somethings out there as butts on the boat.   There are tons of possible racers sitting on the rail of a keelboat who MIGHT be persuaded to join a club with laser availability to race similar kinds of sailors...     ANYTHING positive that you could highlight as possibly growing the number of butts on boats.

Gouv takes the old school approach to put butts on boats...   one big event a year and weeknight racing........ Is that enough?.... New Ideas?

Oops... did not know you were NA class president..   So... point to any area of the country where positive action for getting butts on boats is happening.  TIA

—————————————————————————-

i like two hulls. Used to have a great time as a crew racing the old Nacra 5.2 and 5.8.

i just returned from racing 420’s at a college sailing association. We use the college sailing team’s boats. If you are a member of the association it is free to race. If not you pay $10. They do this every Tuesday evening. Usually have 13-15 boats on the line. All skill levels represented. World champions, All Americans, sailing team alumni, high school team sailors, 13 year old Optimist sailors, and community members who have passed a basic sailing proficiency test. 3 minute starts. Short courses. Usually get in 5-7 races. This is the best gig in town. The boats are there, you show up and sail. All ages and skill levels mix and have a blast! The mood is light hearted like a Wednesday evening beer can race, but there is real competition. 

This is a wonderful model, but it requires expensive waterfront real estate. My thought for working around that expensive barrier is to have nonprofit, mobile, Laser sailing associations that can deliver boats to different venues for hosting regattas, clinics, fun sails etc. I can expand on that later when I have more time. IMHO, any plan to grow the Laser game (especially to the 20-30 year olds) will need to include some very creative marketing of the lifestyle. This is an important piece of the puzzle that I think is missing.

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I posted this (plus some edits) in the other thread but since that thread was not about getting people on the water, here's what I said:

on getting more people on the water: 

1. Honestly, the first step is that you have to believe on a fundamental level that it's possible to get a lot of boats to show up if you put in the work. I always find it super encouraging that people like @Gouvernail have an unwavering belief that sailing in NA can be saved/improved and that he can and will field a 100 boat Easter regatta. More people should be convincing themselves that the Laser game is still capable of being an amazing experience. If you will, dude, it is no dream. This is probably the most important part of the equation. It honestly feels a little dumb mentioning it but it is the fundamental part of getting people out on the water.

2. Organize or help to organize a sailing event. Coordinate with the venue, RC, equipment and participants. This is a LOT of work, but, people want to sail and will appreciate a strong effort by organizers. If they see the organizers putting forth an impassioned effort, they'll be more likely to support the event. Get out and meet/talk with people. Be a friendly, supportive voice in your sailing community. Always be prompt in responding to concerns, and work as hard as you can to make sure they feel included and taken care of. I have been working to coordinate our local sailing club with other regional clubs, getting caravans to go their events, participating in local college social sailing events... NC State in Raleigh does a social sailing evening every week and I try to convince everyone I know to get out there and sail with them. They provide the boats, we just show up and sail in FJs. It's super fun! Anyways, this thread is about getting butts on Lasers, so the point is, it seems like a lot of people care about the Laser class but seem to be waiting for someone else to put in the work to fix it. I say, be that person - get organized, communicate with people as much as they'll tolerate and try to get people out and sailing on a real grassroots level.

3. Promote the ever loving shit out of your events. This year we had 26 Lasers at our big Governor's Cup Regatta - due in no small part to weekly communication starting in January (The regatta was in June) reminding people of the event, the deadlines for discounts, making sure they had ALL the info they needed regarding racing, lodging and the like and emailing a with a list in the email of people who had already committed to racing (seeing that others are committed to participating makes other people more interested in racing). You want to be answering questions they haven't even thought to ask yet. 26 Lasers may not seem like a huge number, but, at our regatta 2 years ago we had 4 Lasers. Last year we had 12. We had a lot of support from our district, too, which was super helpful, and 5 of our sailors were collegiate. I even tried to convince @Gouvernail and @aroy210677 to join us. They had schedule conflicts, but hey, it never hurts to ask, right? MAYBE they can join us at CYC-SC (http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/19206) or CYC-NC (https://www.regattatoolbox.com/eventDetails?eventID=YNIG9IFQzb) or Lake Norman's Board Bash (http://regattanetwork.com/event/19353) - All great events (two of which are D12 Qualifiers! Come sail in D12!!)

 
@Old Yeller I love that idea, too. Have a mobile fleet that you bring to the sailors. very nice.
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1 hour ago, Old Yeller said:

i like two hulls.

I had two Lasers for a while, does that count?

---

My first cat was a Paper Tiger. I was too big for it, but if I sailed hard, I could mix it up with the guys in the fleet. Three weeks ago, I had gin and tonics with a group of locals. One of them lives a few houses from me, so we walked back together. I had previously noticed that he had an old Paper Tiger strapped to the ceiling of his car port, in plain sight from the street. I asked him about it, and it was my old one! Kinda spooky.

---

Mobile fleets are a great idea!

---

Having the boats stored a the club makes transport easier. And subway or other public travel possible in the bigger cities.

Get 10 new race boats. (Fund raise, crowd source... get good boats. Have 3 learn to sailboat race sessions per weekend. Allow people to bring their own boats to join in. Make it cheap. $20 each per session. $10 if you bring your own boat. The cash goes to running the powerboat and paying the coaches.

Every Sunday afternoon is the club race.

Seeding clubs is a tried and true format that works.

Then it's about filling sailing slots. Have gift certificates...

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21 hours ago, dgmckim said:
 I love that idea, too. Have a mobile fleet that you bring to the sailors. very nice.

I think it could work. I was thinking something like “Lowcountry Laser Sailing Association” or “Carolina Laser sailing Club” I know some attorneys who could advise on how to structure the nonprofit. The overarching mission is to grow the Laser game. We would do this by focusing on three areas. 

1. Community outreach. Bringing in entry level sailors. Especially the 20-30 year old demographic.

2. Transitioning junior sailors from Optimists, Bics or whatever into Lasers.

3. Providing regatta support with boat charters, spare parts, etc.

this would not be an elite travel racing team. 

Acquiring the boats brings us to what I would call the Laser Reclamation Project ( I like to have names for ideas or initiatives). Going to clubs for regattas, I usually see just as many if not more Lasers not being used as are registered for the event. Most look like they haven’t been used in years. So I say “use it or lose it”. Provide some solid incentives for boat donations beyond whatever tax benefits there might be. I would start with the low hanging fruit. I’m not trying to compete with the yacht clubs looking for donor boats. I want the boats no one else wants.  The club could even have different chapters throughout the region. 

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10 hours ago, Old Yeller said:

I think it could work. I was thinking something like “Lowcountry Laser Sailing Association” or “Carolina Laser sailing Club” I know some attorneys who could advise on how to structure the nonprofit. The overarching mission is to grow the Laser game. We would do this by focusing on three areas. 

1. Community outreach. Bringing in entry level sailors. Especially the 20-30 year old demographic.

2. Transitioning junior sailors from Optimists, Bics or whatever into Lasers.

3. Providing regatta support with boat charters, spare parts, etc.

this would not be an elite travel racing team. 

Acquiring the boats brings us to what I would call the Laser Reclamation Project ( I like to have names for ideas or initiatives). Going to clubs for regattas, I usually see just as many if not more Lasers not being used as are registered for the event. Most look like they haven’t been used in years. So I say “use it or lose it”. Provide some solid incentives for boat donations beyond whatever tax benefits there might be. I would start with the low hanging fruit. I’m not trying to compete with the yacht clubs looking for donor boats. I want the boats no one else wants.  The club could even have different chapters throughout the region. 

We're up to 4 competitive hulls at JIYC now.  Will be chartering 2 for this weekend and at least two for the CYC-SC open at $50/per regatta. They are intended for club members who get first dibbs, but if we have no takers there we can charter them out.  This program so far has lead to at least 5 new laser owners over the past two years.  Old Yeller is one of them!

The big expense of the proposed "community program" would be acquiring the 4/6 boat trailer to tow them around on, (and make sure the donated boats had the updated rigging).  However, I believe this would work really well. 

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19 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

  This program so far has lead to at least 5 new laser owners over the past two years.  Old Yeller is one of them!

Thanks. The Frostbite series was a great time. Still think we needed one more day of racing:)

we would definitely need to look at some creative fundraising for the proposed association. Your club is leading the private YCs in the area in Laser fleet development thanks to your efforts. I see a mobile association supporting the growth already underway.

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It never hurts to ask......

Even though there is no formal structure in place I would like to start putting the word out for donations to what will become a mobile Laser specific sailing association in the Southeastern US. I am looking for free to a good home Laser hulls, parts, and trailers. I have a solid lead on two old hulls from this weekend’s regatta. I’ll gladly accept the hulls that people think are not worth repairing. I can do the glass work, and those can  be used for  community clinics. Think 1970’s era hulls...... If you are tired of looking at that old hull buried in leaves under the oak tree send me a PM. Thanks!

 

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Ok we are up to four hulls offered to the cause of getting butts on Lasers. Thank you to the two individuals who have stepped forward so far! The goal for the next 6 months will be to make these vintage hulls seaworthy, get them on a trailer, and make them available free of charge to juniors who would like to try out a Laser or race one in a regatta. Keep looking under those trees friends! :)

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8 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

Ok we are up to four hulls offered to the cause of getting butts on Lasers. Thank you to the two individuals who have stepped forward so far! The goal for the next 6 months will be to make these vintage hulls seaworthy, get them on a trailer, and make them available free of charge to juniors who would like to try out a Laser or race one in a regatta. Keep looking under those trees friends! :)

Dude, if going at this seriously set it up as a 501c3 so folks can do charitable donations. Pretty sure I could find you a bunch up here and even a cheap feather life trailer in like new condition.

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14 hours ago, Wess said:

Dude, if going at this seriously set it up as a 501c3 so folks can do charitable donations. Pretty sure I could find you a bunch up here and even a cheap feather life trailer in like new condition.

I’m just feeling this out right now and listening to the advice of older and wiser sailors who have professional experience in the tax and legal area. One idea is that if the mission can be accomplished without the encumbrances of a formal structure then so much the better. 

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4 hours ago, Old Yeller said:

I’m just feeling this out right now and listening to the advice of older and wiser sailors who have professional experience in the tax and legal area. One idea is that if the mission can be accomplished without the encumbrances of a formal structure then so much the better. 

Unfortunately Wess is correct.  Very few people do something for nothing these days.  If they can donate a $1,000 laser and take a $5,000 tax credit for it this plan is far more likely to succeed.  What would be the cats meow would be to find some kind of grant money out there to kick start things.

The SAYRA Board would not be a bad place to start.  Of course putting a Jr twist on this would be the best approach.  However, if the laser gets booted from the Olympics that would crush the Jr angle, but could bring a flood of people wanting to unload lasers for big tax credits as I imagine the used boat market will bottom out fairly quickly....

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26 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Unfortunately Wess is correct.  Very few people do something for nothing these days.  If they can donate a $1,000 laser and take a $5,000 tax credit for it this plan is far more likely to succeed.  What would be the cats meow would be to find some kind of grant money out there to kick start things.

The SAYRA Board would not be a bad place to start.  Of course putting a Jr twist on this would be the best approach.  However, if the laser gets booted from the Olympics that would crush the Jr angle, but could bring a flood of people wanting to unload lasers for big tax credits as I imagine the used boat market will bottom out fairly quickly....

I'm getting a lot of good feedback. I'll continue to think things over and weigh the options. in the meantime, if anyone out there is tired of mowing around that old hull that is soft enough to use as a pillow, consider giving it to the Laser Reclamation Project. At the very least i will make it seaworthy and make it available for others to use free of charge.

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5 hours ago, Old Yeller said:

I’m just feeling this out right now and listening to the advice of older and wiser sailors who have professional experience in the tax and legal area. One idea is that if the mission can be accomplished without the encumbrances of a formal structure then so much the better. 

Get legal council  

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19 hours ago, Wess said:

f going at this seriously set it up as a 501c3 so folks can do charitable donations.

+1. And you don't necessarily need to create and run your own. There are "umbrella" 501c3 organizations, usually focused on a topic (ie: community sailing). They'll ask you a few questions to check you're legit, take you onboard, and file the yearly paperwork. This allows small shorthanded orgs to "be 501c3" with minimal hassle. It's not a scam nor a trick.

I've used this approach in other (non-sailing) fields.

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16 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Get legal council  

+10- You don't want to get sued by someone on the free loaner boat.

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40 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

I'm getting a lot of good feedback. I'll continue to think things over and weigh the options. in the meantime, if anyone out there is tired of mowing around that old hull that is soft enough to use as a pillow, consider giving it to the Laser Reclamation Project. At the very least i will make it seaworthy and make it available for others to use free of charge.

That's great! i'm formulating a call for unused/abandoned boats in my area as well. I plan to see if I can work with our central NC sailing foundation to make boat donations tax deductible, or to see if they provide any grant funding. Good work!

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3 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

+10- You don't want to get sued by someone on the free loaner boat.

You also want to protect those using the boat

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@Old Yeller and @dgmckim- you club itself is likely set up to handle the donations if you do it through them.  There are also fairly standard forms for disclaimers for those using the boat (to protect the club).  I am doing this now with some local inner city sailing organizations I work with and a club I used to sail with was vey active in this regard.  Drop me a PM when you get to that stage and I am happy to share/help. 

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Boat donations. Three thoughts:

1. Many, if not most, people who have perfectly good old boats ready fir donation, parked them years ago or inherited them, are not actively seeking a new home for the boat, and do not read advertisements posted nun folks leaving looking for boats. 

2. The very most likely prospects you might drag out to play in a Laser fleet, are people who already own a Laser but just haven’t felt welcome or motivated. 

The very first step in fleet building is to find the current owners,  persistently beg them  to come out to play, facilitate their arrival, and make them feel wanted

3. Many donated boats  are pieces of crap at least one person decided was  less fun to Sail than give away. 

Be careful and avoid sending a new sailor out on a boat that is less fun to sail than to give away. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, dgmckim said:

That's great! i'm formulating a call for unused/abandoned boats in my area as well. I plan to see if I can work with our central NC sailing foundation to make boat donations tax deductible, or to see if they provide any grant funding. Good work!

Cool. I’m eager to hear what you find out about the NC foundation. Tell them I need a grant for a new Laser. Ideally before Wrightsville. That yellow thing out back is on my nerves today. :) 

6 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

+1. And you don't necessarily need to create and run your own. There are "umbrella" 501c3 organizations, usually focused on a topic (ie: community sailing). They'll ask you a few questions to check you're legit, take you onboard, and file the yearly paperwork. This allows small shorthanded orgs to "be 501c3" with minimal hassle. It's not a scam nor a trick.

I've used this approach in other (non-sailing) fields.

I’m liking the ideas of working with existing organizations. I hate paperwork.

 

5 hours ago, Wess said:

@Old Yeller and @dgmckim- you club itself is likely set up to handle the donations if you do it through them.  There are also fairly standard forms for disclaimers for those using the boat (to protect the club).  I am doing this now with some local inner city sailing organizations I work with and a club I used to sail with was vey active in this regard.  Drop me a PM when you get to that stage and I am happy to share/help. 

I’ll pick your brain on this when I get some time. Another vote for working with existing clubs. 

 

6 hours ago, VWAP said:

Get legal council  

Check

 

3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

The very first step in fleet building is to find the current owners,  persistently beg them  to come out to play, facilitate their arrival, and make them feel wanted

The fruits of that approach were on display at the regatta last weekend. The one local club that aggressively promotes the Laser class brought a large trailer of boats that were chartered. Calls were made, people were invited, parts were found. And their arrival was facilitated by scheduling the D12event alongside a SAYRA junior points regatta so the parents could participate. People who were racing the boat for the first time in years were visibly thrilled to be back and were making plans for the next regatta. Watch out, somebody I know might be a contender for the North American Big Butt Award! :) 

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36 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

The fruits of that approach were on display at the regatta last weekend. The one local club that aggressively promotes the Laser class brought a large trailer of boats that were chartered. Calls were made, people were invited, parts were found. And their arrival was facilitated by scheduling the D12event alongside a SAYRA junior points regatta so the parents could participate. People who were racing the boat for the first time in years were visibly thrilled to be back and were making plans for the next regatta. Watch out, somebody I know might be a contender for the North American Big Butt Award! :) 

looks like there was a great turnout! we've got either 2 or 3 central NC lasers coming to CYC-SC next week for the D12. Looking forward to it!

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10 hours ago, dgmckim said:

looks like there was a great turnout! we've got either 2 or 3 central NC lasers coming to CYC-SC next week for the D12. Looking forward to it!

That’s awesome. Send me a PM regarding a place to stay if needed. 

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11 hours ago, dgmckim said:

looks like there was a great turnout! we've got either 2 or 3 central NC lasers coming to CYC-SC next week for the D12. Looking forward to it!  ....   i s facilitated by scheduling the D12event alongside a SAYRA junior points regatta so the parents could participate.

 

Key Point   I am told that  that Oz has junior events running the same day as adults usually weekends at the club.    In my area... all most all junior events are single weekday events.   The region will pair up two clubs   eg AYC and SSA back to back so that the far Southern bay sailors can just make one trip and stay overnight.      The ONLY weekend events are the Junior Olympics. 

Creating synergy with juniors and adults has a huge legacy to overcome.    Could you get an adult event  of 10 sailors who take the day off to race in a separate start  during a weekday at one of these junior regattas...???  Usually they have an opti course and a laser radial/420 course. 

Take a page from Stuart Walker where he would run a post race debrief after the race about what he did or did not do...    You could put a club coach on the line and let them lead... OR bring back a ex junior now in  college sailing or even your local rock star.      

From the adult point of view.... a day playing hooky and calling in sick for a greater cause would be a feature... not a burden!   IMO>

 

In fact.... if Ol Yeller showed up with a stack of lasers that the adults would charter to race.... they don't even have to bother with their personal boat logistics.... (we know how that even a laser transport to  and from and event is just a show stopper for many casual racers..)  just show up with a jacket and gloves and a good attitude for growing the sport.

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28 minutes ago, Tcatman said:

The ONLY weekend events are the Junior Olympics. 

All of our SAYRA junior events are weekend regattas. So the parents are usually there..

31 minutes ago, Tcatman said:

Creating synergy with juniors and adults has a huge legacy to overcome

D12 and SAYRA are doing a great job with this (thanks RobbieB). 

35 minutes ago, Tcatman said:

In fact.... if Ol Yeller showed up with a stack of lasers that the adults would charter to race.... they don't even have to bother with their personal boat logistics.... (we know how that even a laser transport to  and from and event is just a show stopper for many casual racers..)  just show up with a jacket and gloves and a good attitude for growing the sport.

This is currently being done (again thanks to RobbieB) through the one local club that is aggressively promoting the Laser class. What I envision is trying to duplicate those efforts across the district. This goes back to a point that Guv has made about having the multi boat trailers. There is nothing like seeing 6 boat Laser trailers enter the YC and knowing the regatta fleet just got significantly larger.  

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21 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

While it wouldn't hurt, there is are better ways to do it. :) 

What needs marketing is CLUB RACING, and that is something World Sailing should be involved with. World Sailing is cash strapped, yes does little or nothing to garner excitement to the activity which delivers both butts on boats AND club memberships - which delivers WS greater global membership and more moola.

At the moment is a kind of 'trickle down' approach.

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2 hours ago, BruceH-NZ said:

While it wouldn't hurt, there is are better ways to do it. :) 

What needs marketing is CLUB RACING, and that is something World Sailing should be involved with. World Sailing is cash strapped, yes does little or nothing to garner excitement to the activity which delivers both butts on boats AND club memberships - which delivers WS greater global membership and more moola.

At the moment is a kind of 'trickle down' approach.

I hear what you’re saying. I would love to see club racing pushed by everyone including world sailing. However, I’m not inclined to wait around on WS. Rather than “trickle down” I would prefer “bubble up”. So just for kicks what do you think a marketing campaign to sell the “Laser Lifestyle” would look like? A lot of fun could be had brainstorming that!

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1 hour ago, Old Yeller said:

I hear what you’re saying. I would love to see club racing pushed by everyone including world sailing. However, I’m not inclined to wait around on WS. Rather than “trickle down” I would prefer “bubble up”. So just for kicks what do you think a marketing campaign to sell the “Laser Lifestyle” would look like? A lot of fun could be had brainstorming that!

I really doubt there is anything to gain in selling a sailing lifestyle.  Why?  Because anyone that is capable of getting a Laser off the line and around a course has to have a pretty decent understanding of how to sail and what the lifestyle is.  The club itself may have a lifestyle is sellable.  If you are in Naps for example then SSA is the club for dinghy, OD, and casual learn to race stress free (TESOD) lifestyle.  Its also distinctly not a jacket/tie supper club... it is hands on and laid back.  All of that can be "sold."  But generally go for the low hanging fruit.  You ain't looking for newbies.  Generally speaking you are looking for folks that know how to and have sailed the boat (or a dinghy at least) before and take away excuses... we have loaner boats... we have stress free racing... we have convenient times/places to race... we have stuff for other family members... there are no a**holes... enjoy a debrief, BBQ and beer after racing...  did I mention we sometimes have a band and dancing your spouse, kids, and parents would enjoy...  I am sorry did I mention families like this place...

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On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 8:51 AM, Old Yeller said:

That’s awesome. Send me a PM regarding a place to stay if needed. 

I got'em covered.  They may not be worth a shit Sunday morning though!

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1 hour ago, Old Yeller said:

I hear what you’re saying. I would love to see club racing pushed by everyone including world sailing. However, I’m not inclined to wait around on WS. Rather than “trickle down” I would prefer “bubble up”. So just for kicks what do you think a marketing campaign to sell the “Laser Lifestyle” would look like? A lot of fun could be had brainstorming that!

Promoting a lifestyle message is definitely a valid and effective way to promote the benefits of Laser sailing. These are in my view secondary messages, but valid. What is the unique selling factor is the racing you get - while you can also achieve this in other classes in specific regions - what makes the Laser unique is that you can show up unannounced at the Malooloba yacht club, hand over a A$20 note, make minor repairs to the club boat which the club guy was thankful for then go for a blast. (No club racing the day I was there, no problem, I explored the canals in gusty winds up to 20 knots - flat water - woohoo! Even did some tacking drills.) The skill set is the same because the boat is the same. And you can do this in about 100 countries throughout the world.

The Laser is like no other class because it is everywhere. You literally go anywhere, rent/charter/borrow a boat and race in a club race. Or a regatta - there are a huge number to choose from.

For those who don't travel who buy a boat, they are buying into a class that for most, has a club racing Laser within an hour or so drive of most major towns. In the world.

What needs promoting in my view is the club racing itself - and what the Laser delivers is unique.

What is amazing is that after 50 years, no other class comes close.

---

In case I wasn't clear above the 'trickle down' theory kinda works but misses the point. In my view, the heart and soul of the sailing is at club level. Bubble up works. All of the top 10 sailors at the recent worlds enjoy lots of hard out local racing.

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8 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

I got'em covered.  They may not be worth a shit Sunday morning though!

let's not get ahead of ourselves, here. i may not be worth a shit on Saturday morning either!!

 

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On 7/18/2019 at 11:43 AM, RobbieB said:

I got'em covered.  They may not be worth a shit Sunday morning though!

 

On 7/18/2019 at 11:55 AM, dgmckim said:

let's not get ahead of ourselves, here. i may not be worth a shit on Saturday morning either!!

My plan is falling into place nicely. A good host would match his guests, drink for drink and shot for shot. Stay thirsty my friends! :) 

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12 hours ago, Old Yeller said:

 

My plan is falling into place nicely. A good host would match his guests, drink for drink and shot for shot. Stay thirsty my friends! :) 

Your hair felt very "poofy" yesterday, (or was that the gin).  Kind of a cross between a brillo-pad and a pillow.  Is that what salt water does?

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44 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Your hair felt very "poofy" yesterday, (or was that the gin).  Kind of a cross between a brillo-pad and a pillow.  Is that what salt water does?

Ha! Just blessed with a full head of hair! I wear it as a protective helmet to soften the blows of the school of hard knocks. I just assumed you were reaching  out to steady yourself so you didn’t fall off that Olympic style podium. After all you were standing on the highest box. Watch out for that gin! :) 

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23 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

Ha! Just blessed with a full head of hair! I wear it as a protective helmet to soften the blows of the school of hard knocks. I just assumed you were reaching  out to steady yourself so you didn’t fall off that Olympic style podium. After all you were standing on the highest box. Watch out for that gin! :) 

Yeah.  I lost my hat halfway through the second race.  Scalp is hurting today!  That podium is disturbingly high.  Not good for us old folks!

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On 7/22/2019 at 9:57 AM, RobbieB said:

That podium is disturbingly high.  Not good for us old folks!

Another regatta another podium. Nicely done. The momentum continues to build in the area of getting more butts on Lasers. Every regatta more parents are expressing an interest in racing Lasers. It appears that having fun is contagious and that the best way to grow the Laser game is simply to go to as many regattas as possible, be willing to talk to people, and have a good time in the process. I can live with that!

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With all the growth in D12 and the excellent turnout at Wrightsville I am reminded of the proposed trophy to be awarded annually to the district secretary who oversees the largest growth in North America. The exact name for this perpetual trophy can be worked out later, but I would like to see some prototypes for the actual trophy. Design sketches would be great. Remember, the theme is butts on Lasers (or whatever our boat is called). 

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20 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

With all the growth in D12 and the excellent turnout at Wrightsville I am reminded of the proposed trophy to be awarded annually to the district secretary who oversees the largest growth in North America. 

Which is the largest district (in terms of signed up class members) in North America these days? I know D7 used to claim this distinction.

Separate question - which district in North America held the largest district championship last year?
 

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15 minutes ago, tillerman said:

Which is the largest district (in terms of signed up class members) in North America these days? I know D7 used to claim this distinction.

Separate question - which district in North America held the largest district championship last year?
 

I have data from the class that I will be reviewing. Just haven’t had time. Any suggestions on the exact metrics to use for awarding the trophy would be appreciated. New members plus regatta turnout??

Edited by Old Yeller
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PS. Maybe this award would move us in the direction of bringing back the Bruce Cup. The trophy could be awarded each year at this regatta. I enjoyed the Bruce Cup as a youth.

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On 8/9/2019 at 2:18 AM, Old Yeller said:

PS. Maybe this award would move us in the direction of bringing back the Bruce Cup. The trophy could be awarded each year at this regatta. I enjoyed the Bruce Cup as a youth.

For those who don't know, here's the history according to Fred Schroth (written in 2009):

Quote

OK for those who don't know about the Bruce Cup.

The Bruce Cup was Mary Helen Edgecomb's brilliant idea back in 1984. She invited teams of Laser two, Radial and Laser from each district to come to a three day North American Interdistrict Championships to be held in Dallas at Chandler's Landing Yacht Club on Lake Ray Hubbard.

( three years later it moved to Rush Creek)

The event was a super success. The Radia and Laser two fleets were well stocked with future big names in Laser sailing. Suffice it to say Mark Mendelblatt was a kid on a Laser Two. Ian Lineberger brought the St Pete juniors with a couple huge trailers, chase boats, and coaches.. 

Fiona Kidd, the Laser NA secretary, came down with a team from Ontario. There were teams from california, Massachusetts, North Carolina, New Orleans, Chicago, Minnesota, Alberta, Manitoba and we held qualifiers to see who would represent Texas.. I made that cut.....and even won a race.

As Mary Helen is a huge benefactor ( using her time not her money) of junior sailing she found housing for all the "kids in the Radials and Laser Twos" and let the Laser sailor adults fend for themselves.

Ian Bruce showed up and sailed. Bruce Kirby sent a letter to be read as a speech thanking the regatta hosts for the event.

Mark Salih prevailed in the Lasers over guys like Pimetal ( Snipe builder), Kern ( Soling silver medal), Forester ( 470 gold), Adamson ( first Laser US Olympic rep), Bourdow ( Silver in Dutchman and 2nd in laser worlds), Bakker ( the Lockpit), Cobb ( two time O'Day Champ), Draheim ( O'Day Champ), Romberg ( O'day Champ), Young ( Current NA masters Champ), 

The event became famous for hot sunny days and mornings where we chipped ice from our cockpits.

I remember well a crossing with Bourdow where I yelled "tack or cross" and his simple reply was "It's (rymes with trucking) cold."

The event grew throughout the eighties and peaked in 1993 when it was used as a qualifier for the US sailing team and featured an epic battle between Bourdow and Adamson.

Perennial world Laser Two Champion Peter Katcha always sailed the event and that brought out the very best of the Laser Two teams. Most years we had a fabulous continginent from District 3 and usually even District five and six fielded teams. The event was serious business.

 

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Laser Frostbite  series started in Charleston yesterday. Thanks to the D12 secretary and our race Committee (you know who you are) for getting butts on Lasers! 

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On 7/8/2019 at 3:29 PM, Old Yeller said:

thanks MH!

That'd be Mary Helen?   How's she doing nowadays?

    I spent summer of '79 at FWBC working with her.   Helped get that roadshow goin.  B)

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24 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

That'd be Mary Helen?   How's she doing nowadays?

    I spent summer of '79 at FWBC working with her.   Helped get that roadshow goin.  B)

The one and only. All good. I was a LYRA youth in the late ‘80s. My formative years! I’ll send you a pm.

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 Continuing with the Laser reclamation project.... thank you to those who came forward with donated hulls!  Sorry I have not had time to pick up all of those. I did receive two hulls that turned out to be beyond repair, even for my standards. Boats in that condition will be used to make hiking benches ( I can make two per hull) and donated to junior programs. 

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18 hours ago, Old Yeller said:

Laser Frostbite  series started in Charleston yesterday. Thanks to the D12 secretary and our race Committee (you know who you are) for getting butts on Lasers! 

It was good stuff with that front pulling through early.. Nice sailing yesterday.  Having RC help for these things is so critical!  So far 53 is feeling exponentially older than 52 was..... Gotta get back to the gym as soo as I can walk again.

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Another day of Laser frostbite in Charleston was a success. We even had a trailer load of boats from Augusta show up. The juniors outnumbered The adults.

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1 hour ago, Old Yeller said:

Another day of Laser frostbite in Charleston was a success. We even had a trailer load of boats from Augusta show up. The juniors outnumbered The adults.

"This is how we do it baby..boom... boom. boom. boom. boom.!"

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I see a couple of STP scores in there and understand it to mean "Standard Penalty SI Specific", is that correct?

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16 minutes ago, dgmckim said:

I see a couple of STP scores in there and understand it to mean "Standard Penalty SI Specific", is that correct?

https://site-isaf.soticcloud.net/worldcup/results/index.php?view=fleetrace&rgtaid=20579&evntid=39411&raceid=99018&includeref=regattaresults87052

i think so

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8 hours ago, bill4 said:

Miami is in the US, right? Where are the American sailors?

I suppose some are in Australia getting ready for the worlds. I’m not sure what the requirements are for entering in Miami.

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37 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

I suppose some are in Australia getting ready for the worlds. I’m not sure what the requirements are for entering in Miami.

Notice of Race for the World Cup Series says 

"Only competitors invited by World Sailing will be eligible to enter the WC Series. Invitations will be issued in accordance with the 2020 HWCS Qualification System." 

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1 hour ago, Old Yeller said:

I suppose some are in Australia getting ready for the worlds. I’m not sure what the requirements are for entering in Miami.

If I read this table correctly, Miami is a regatta which will count for 2020 US Olympic team selection for most classes, but not for the Lasers. But the 2020 Worlds (in February in Australia for the Lasers) will count. I see Buckingham and Barnard are indeed registered for the Worlds and are likely already in Australia training for it.

459806109_ScreenShot2020-01-22at8_39_47AM.thumb.png.b1807f8f6df7209a2fcf36b365d955d8.png


Disclaimer: I am not a pettifogging lawyer or an expert on the US Olympic selection process.

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9 hours ago, bill4 said:

Miami is in the US, right? Where are the American sailors?

For me the coolest thing about this is Stefano, (Peru) and Lucas, (US in the 30's place wise) will be leading our D12 Full rig and Radial clinic in February!  Lucas is probably a solid 10-15 lbs light for what's happening in Miami and he's young.  I think he just turned 18 and stepped up to the full rig full time last year, (from the radial). 

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13 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

See Lucas got an "STP" in R4.  What's an STP?


standard penalty SI specific 

Legend
( ) Excluded Score
OCS - On the course side of the starting line and broke rule 29.1 or 30.1
ARB Scoring penalty after arbitration
PTS - Scoring penalty for a yellow flag after the finish
BFD - Disqualification under rule 30.3
RAF - Retired after finishing
DCT - Disqualified after Causing Tangle (Kiteboarding only)
RCT - Retired after Causing Tangle (Kiteboarding only)
DGM Disqualification under rule 69.1(b)(2) not excludable
RDG - Redress given
DNC Did not come to the starting area
RET - Retired
DNE - Disqualification not excludable under rule 88.3(b)
SCP - Took a Scoring Penalty under rule 44.3(a)
DNF - Did not finish
STP - Standard Penalty SI Specific
DNS - Did not start
UFD - U flag penalty imposed
DPI - Discretionary penalty imposed
ZFP - 20% penalty under rule 30.2
DSQ - Disqualification

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6 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:


standard penalty SI specific 

Legend
( ) Excluded Score
OCS - On the course side of the starting line and broke rule 29.1 or 30.1
ARB Scoring penalty after arbitration
PTS - Scoring penalty for a yellow flag after the finish
BFD - Disqualification under rule 30.3
RAF - Retired after finishing
DCT - Disqualified after Causing Tangle (Kiteboarding only)
RCT - Retired after Causing Tangle (Kiteboarding only)
DGM Disqualification under rule 69.1(b)(2) not excludable
RDG - Redress given
DNC Did not come to the starting area
RET - Retired
DNE - Disqualification not excludable under rule 88.3(b)
SCP - Took a Scoring Penalty under rule 44.3(a)
DNF - Did not finish
STP - Standard Penalty SI Specific
DNS - Did not start
UFD - U flag penalty imposed
DPI - Discretionary penalty imposed
ZFP - 20% penalty under rule 30.2
DSQ - Disqualification

So RC/Judges tossed him for a breach of the SI's?   

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6 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:


standard penalty SI specific 

Legend
( ) Excluded Score
OCS - On the course side of the starting line and broke rule 29.1 or 30.1
ARB Scoring penalty after arbitration
PTS - Scoring penalty for a yellow flag after the finish
BFD - Disqualification under rule 30.3
RAF - Retired after finishing
DCT - Disqualified after Causing Tangle (Kiteboarding only)
RCT - Retired after Causing Tangle (Kiteboarding only)
DGM Disqualification under rule 69.1(b)(2) not excludable
RDG - Redress given
DNC Did not come to the starting area
RET - Retired
DNE - Disqualification not excludable under rule 88.3(b)
SCP - Took a Scoring Penalty under rule 44.3(a)
DNF - Did not finish
STP - Standard Penalty SI Specific
DNS - Did not start
UFD - U flag penalty imposed
DPI - Discretionary penalty imposed
ZFP - 20% penalty under rule 30.2
DSQ - Disqualification


Possibly one of the items on this list?

Screen Shot 2020-01-22 at 9.19.48 AM.png

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35 minutes ago, tillerman said:

Disclaimer: I am not a pettifogging lawyer or an expert on the US Olympic selection process.

Not all details are unimportant. Just pretend.

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28 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

I think he just turned 18 and stepped up to the full rig full time last year, (from the radial). 

I don’t recognize all the US names but I believe Esquadero is also a youth. Hamilton as well in the Radial.

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6 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

I don’t recognize all the US names but I believe Esquadero is also a youth. Hamilton as well in the Radial.

Yes. Daniel is and a member of D12, (although we never see him cause he rubs shoulders with the FL hot shots).

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13 minutes ago, tillerman said:


Possibly one of the items on this list?

Screen Shot 2020-01-22 at 9.19.48 AM.png

"Arriving late tp the Pit lane"?  We're NASCAR now?  Not that it would hurt publicity wise....

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50 minutes ago, tillerman said:

pettifogging

Fun word. 

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4 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

Petitflogging Molly

 

 

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