jesposito

The STUPIDITY and CORRUPTION continues at YRALIS PHRF

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I guess stupidity trumps corruption.

 

Go to a more efficient sail and increase your sail area at the same time, and YRA of LIS will give you +3 secs./mi.  Checkout the table for Retro-fitted asym sprits in the 2019 PHRF regs.  Looks like each line has been given +3 seconds from last year’s 2018 regs.

 

Someone said this definitely had nothing to do with trying to handicap boats accurately.  It’s their attempt to address the fall off in participation. They think the problem is skippers can’t get enough crew to sail with a symmetrical spinnaker, so let’s get them to retrofit to a sprit and an asym sail, since less crew and less talent is needed. That will make all those boats on the mooring come out and race.

 

This is a joke.  As if the adjustments they had for asyms and retrofit sprits weren’t enough of a gift.  Most of us thought that, if anything, they would penalize asyms more because they’ve gotten so much more effective than 10 years ago.  Don’t agree?  Why else would all the sailmakers tell racers, “you’re fuckin crazy if you don’t switch to an asym.” 

 

There had to be one hell of a salesman sailmaker in the discussion that got the PHRF geniuses to buy this.

 

So, I guess the idea of fairness is gone.  I choose to race with competent crew and the stock symmetrical spinnaker setup, and I get unfairly penalized because they are giving the competition with retrofit asyms a gift.

 

I thought their job was to just rate the boat and assign ratings based on what is actually faster and what is actually slower.  I’ll tell you one thing that does kill racing is when people think the rating or handicapping system is unfair, and this definitely is.

 

Cain is clueless, but where is Rick Royce in all this?  He knows better

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Nobody is stopping you from going OD. 

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PHRF, More b00bs

 

olyria-roy-huge-natural-boobs-bikini-400

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Have you looked at whether a +3 would have mattered to any of the boats that went to a-sails? Generally speaking, I have observed that boats that don't have historically consistent crew are not much of a threat anyway, regardless of sailplan, course or conditions. Tempest in a tea pot? Or will a +3 for some boats noticeably change podium finishes?

And if the benefit is really that important, why don't you do what they do over in IRC and optimize, optimize, optimize with an a-sail?? Seems to work for them.

Or get 2 different certificates

Most Chief Handicappers I know (granted, I don't know that many) give a-sailed boats a +3 anyway...maybe PHRFLIS is just aligning with other areas.

Try to remember that PH is the gateway to participation and that participation is good for everybody - the chandlers, the sailmakers, the riggers, the clubs, the owners, the yards, the labor. Anything PH can do to increase participation should be encouraged. (within reason, of course)

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1 hour ago, jesposito said:

Cain is clueless, but where is Rick Royce in all this?  He knows better

 

36 minutes ago, ease hike trim said:

Rick Royce sounds like a record producer.

Mabey..... butte he shoudentte singalled oute licke thisse.  Theire our plentey wingnuttes at YRALIS shoude sharre the blamme.  Jeffie, Red Dresse, & RR, they notte clulesse, butte theire willengnesse to "go alloungue" is vexeng.   I love theise guyes, butte Expo hase a pointte.                                       :)             

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1 hour ago, jesposito said:

Go to a more efficient sail and increase your sail area at the same time, and YRA of LIS will give you +3 secs./mi.  Checkout the table for Retro-fitted asym sprits in the 2019 PHRF regs. 

Alarmist much? Fake news? Or as someone said above, tempest in a teapot?

Your wording insinuates that every boat retrofitting to an asym gets +3, yet you also reference the table. Is it possible that the table from 2018 did not produce the desired results, so the table was adjusted?

For those who give a shit, I'd note, which Espo didn't seem think important enough to bring up, that the table is based on a condition where TPS (which would be the length of the spin pole on a sym boat), must be unchanged (or less) in order to use this table. So unless your sym boat had a long "penalty" pole, you're going to end up with a very stubby sprit, which is not going to be great for an asym despite advances in design. If a boat retrofits a longer sprit that increases TPS, that is not contemplated by the table and therefore would be a full review (a modification that must be reported for evaluation).

Is it possible, as you allege, that this is to boost participation by giving a minor credit to a boat that's going to tack an asym to their anchor roller?  And if so, where's the harm in that?  An outlier who gains a significant advantage from this miserly adjustment and all of a sudden is on the podium is probably going to be reviewed for "observed performance" in future years.

And no, I have no relation or involvement with YRA-LIS PHRF, though I do sail in LIS, and I think they're doing a pretty good job. Blasting them on SA for something like this is irresponsible on your part.

Have a nice day.

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22 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

 

Mabey..... butte he shoudentte singalled oute licke thisse.  Theire our plentey wingnuttes at YRALIS shoude sharre the blamme.  Jeffie, Red Dresse, & RR, they notte clulesse, butte theire willengnesse to "go alloungue" is vexeng.   I love theise guyes, butte Expo hase a pointte.                                       :)             

Oh I don't know him and don't have anything critical to say about him.  Just making an observation about the alliterative nature of his name.

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Just now, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Hmmm. The tin foil hat brigade is out again. 

And waitteng forre its leadere, thack you forre commeng.                         :)

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5 hours ago, jesposito said:

I guess stupidity trumps corruption.

 

Go to a more efficient sail and increase your sail area at the same time, and YRA of LIS will give you +3 secs./mi.  Checkout the table for Retro-fitted asym sprits in the 2019 PHRF regs.  Looks like each line has been given +3 seconds from last year’s 2018 regs.

 

Someone said this definitely had nothing to do with trying to handicap boats accurately.  It’s their attempt to address the fall off in participation. They think the problem is skippers can’t get enough crew to sail with a symmetrical spinnaker, so let’s get them to retrofit to a sprit and an asym sail, since less crew and less talent is needed. That will make all those boats on the mooring come out and race.

 

This is a joke.  As if the adjustments they had for asyms and retrofit sprits weren’t enough of a gift.  Most of us thought that, if anything, they would penalize asyms more because they’ve gotten so much more effective than 10 years ago.  Don’t agree?  Why else would all the sailmakers tell racers, “you’re fuckin crazy if you don’t switch to an asym.” 

 

There had to be one hell of a salesman sailmaker in the discussion that got the PHRF geniuses to buy this.

 

So, I guess the idea of fairness is gone.  I choose to race with competent crew and the stock symmetrical spinnaker setup, and I get unfairly penalized because they are giving the competition with retrofit asyms a gift.

 

I thought their job was to just rate the boat and assign ratings based on what is actually faster and what is actually slower.  I’ll tell you one thing that does kill racing is when people think the rating or handicapping system is unfair, and this definitely is.

 

Cain is clueless, but where is Rick Royce in all this?  He knows better

A boat owner not happy with their handicap?

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you

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5 hours ago, VWAP said:

PHRF, More b00bs

 

olyria-roy-huge-natural-boobs-bikini-400

Something surgical going on there, could be a dude.....just sayin’

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3 minutes ago, toad said:
5 hours ago, VWAP said:

PHRF, More b00bs

 

olyria-roy-huge-natural-boobs-bikini-400

Something surgical going on there, could be a dude  VWAMP.......just sayin’

:)

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5 hours ago, ease hike trim said:

Rick Royce sounds like a record producer.

I know his cousin Rolls Royce.  ;)

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43 minutes ago, toad said:

A boat owner not happy with their handicap?

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you

Boat owner? That’s an improvement. Usually the complainers are not boat owners, don’t race, are not YRALIS members, and ride bicycles. They do like to read the minutes however  

 

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14 minutes ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:
1 hour ago, toad said:

A boat owner not happy with their handicap?

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you

Boat owner? That’s an improvement. Usually the complainers are not boat owners, don’t race, are not YRALIS members, and ride bicycles. They do like to read the minutes however  

keepe fanning, we our stuck at smouldere, ifgnition wille happen......................             :)

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3 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

I know his cousin Rolls Royce.  ;)

Not to be picky, but it is Henry Royce and Charles Rolls. My Tanzer 22 rates 239 I think without checking, and I am not complaining. We get a minus 3 for a non stock rudder, and it is worth it. We suck to windward, doing about 5.25 max, but we have the handicap. Downwind we match some bigger boats speed, while they give us lots of time.

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3 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

:)

 

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1 minute ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Wots she rate.

69

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11 hours ago, jesposito said:

I guess stupidity trumps corruption.

Stupidly, Trump, corruption... yep.

 

 

 

Sorry, I know, take it to PA, but I just could not resist. 

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3 hours ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Wots she rate.

out of 10, I'd give her one...

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Ok, that was funny.

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8 hours ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Not to be picky, but it is Henry Royce and Charles Rolls. My Tanzer 22 rates 239 I think without checking, and I am not complaining. We get a minus 3 for a non stock rudder, and it is worth it. We suck to windward, doing about 5.25 max, but we have the handicap. Downwind we match some bigger boats speed, while they give us lots of time.

You're the problem Krusty. You're rating band is same division as the OP sails in!  :)

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+3 is meaningless in all but the top of the fleet. A 5 string asym with no pole length mods is harder to jibe and sail deep in big air. It's a wash. 

 

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14 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Boat owner? That’s an improvement. Usually the complainers are not boat owners, don’t race, are not YRALIS members, and ride bicycles. They do like to read the minutes however  

 

Steve Cain's LAP DOG to the rescue:lol:

That didn't take long

 

The uninformed expert that you are, I do own a boat, I am a member of YRALIS w a Valid Cert, I do ride bikes and NO I don't sail anymore because there are only HACKs left to sail against on the sound   

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20 hours ago, sailforbeer said:

Alarmist much? Fake news? Or as someone said above, tempest in a teapot?

Your wording insinuates that every boat retrofitting to an asym gets +3, yet you also reference the table. Is it possible that the table from 2018 did not produce the desired results, so the table was adjusted?

For those who give a shit, I'd note, which Espo didn't seem think important enough to bring up, that the table is based on a condition where TPS (which would be the length of the spin pole on a sym boat), must be unchanged (or less) in order to use this table. So unless your sym boat had a long "penalty" pole, you're going to end up with a very stubby sprit, which is not going to be great for an asym despite advances in design. If a boat retrofits a longer sprit that increases TPS, that is not contemplated by the table and therefore would be a full review (a modification that must be reported for evaluation).

Is it possible, as you allege, that this is to boost participation by giving a minor credit to a boat that's going to tack an asym to their anchor roller?  And if so, where's the harm in that?  An outlier who gains a significant advantage from this miserly adjustment and all of a sudden is on the podium is probably going to be reviewed for "observed performance" in future years.

And no, I have no relation or involvement with YRA-LIS PHRF, though I do sail in LIS, and I think they're doing a pretty good job. Blasting them on SA for something like this is irresponsible on your part.

Have a nice day.

It is not the job of the PHRF comm to do Social Engineering, by giving time to increase participation. You are missing the point with my post

I was pressured pretty hard 2 years ago by a well known sailmaker to change my J29 over to Asym. How much more sail area I would gain and how much faster the boat would be. I would have only lost -3.

Now I would get +3.

This reminds me of Money Magazine when one month they give you the top 10 mutual funds and then 2 months later they give 10 different top 10 mutual funds

Which month do I believe and buy.

You just can't give +3 and say in most cases it won't matter.

Case in point is the J92 on LIS years ago I was on the comm and a woman that owned a 92 many years ago, would come in and complain month after month, Bob Monro finally said give her 3 and get her out  of here, the next year we gave her anther 3, it did not matter. But with Thin Man after taking him 12 years to learn how to sail the boat he's hard to beat with that +6 gift from  15 years ago. YRALIS most favorable J92 rating in the country

J105 was another joke until I finally convinced the comm that the boat in OD configuration should not rate 105, it was 15 sec off the average in the country.

The comm looked at it the same way, and a 105 from Huntington who was clueless was on the comm was protecting it, all you would here is, it doesn't matter they all race OD.

NOT TRUE week night series they sail PHRF, and at the time a popular Wed night series had 3 of them sailing.   Mind you 2 of them were mid fleet and 1 back of fleet when sailing OD finished 1,2,3  2 years in a row.

Could you imagine if one top the top boats like Eclipse raced there.

FAIR???

At 93 the best of the worst still one the following year.

So you ca't go giving out to to increase participation without it effect things.

We all know I'm irresponsible, so get over it  

 

 

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Racing local handicap when you have any serious interest in the results is a recipe for mental health issues.

 

If you stop and think you already know this.

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7 hours ago, European Bloke said:

Racing local handicap when you have any serious interest in the results is a recipe for mental health issues.

 

If you stop and think you already know this.

You are spot on!!

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

Easy fix - quit whinging and sail faster, Espo.

Not whinning dickhead, I could give 2 shits. Sailing boat racing is dead.

If stupid shit like this this continues, the losers that are still left out there will be gone too

I'm trying to point out injustice by the PHRF comm. 

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13 minutes ago, jesposito said:

Not whinning dickhead, I could give 2 shits. Sailing boat racing is dead.

If stupid shit like this this continues, the losers that are still left out there will be gone too

I'm trying to point out injustice by the PHRF comm. 

No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace!

#BoatRatingsMatter !

And just for the record, it's "whining" not whinging or whinning.

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23 minutes ago, Parma said:

No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace!

#BoatRatingsMatter !

And just for the record, it's "whining" not whinging or whinning.

Thanks, spelling police

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On 7/10/2019 at 9:20 AM, jesposito said:

It is not the job of the PHRF comm to do Social Engineering, by giving time to increase participation. You are missing the point with my post

I was pressured pretty hard 2 years ago by a well known sailmaker to change my J29 over to Asym. How much more sail area I would gain and how much faster the boat would be. I would have only lost -3.

Now I would get +3.

This reminds me of Money Magazine when one month they give you the top 10 mutual funds and then 2 months later they give 10 different top 10 mutual funds

Which month do I believe and buy.

You just can't give +3 and say in most cases it won't matter.

Case in point is the J92 on LIS years ago I was on the comm and a woman that owned a 92 many years ago, would come in and complain month after month, Bob Monro finally said give her 3 and get her out  of here, the next year we gave her anther 3, it did not matter. But with Thin Man after taking him 12 years to learn how to sail the boat he's hard to beat with that +6 gift from  15 years ago. YRALIS most favorable J92 rating in the country

J105 was another joke until I finally convinced the comm that the boat in OD configuration should not rate 105, it was 15 sec off the average in the country.

The comm looked at it the same way, and a 105 from Huntington who was clueless was on the comm was protecting it, all you would here is, it doesn't matter they all race OD.

NOT TRUE week night series they sail PHRF, and at the time a popular Wed night series had 3 of them sailing.   Mind you 2 of them were mid fleet and 1 back of fleet when sailing OD finished 1,2,3  2 years in a row.

Could you imagine if one top the top boats like Eclipse raced there.

FAIR???

At 93 the best of the worst still one the following year.

So you ca't go giving out to to increase participation without it effect things.

We all know I'm irresponsible, so get over it  

 

 

I argued that, local area adjustments in our So Cal region should be only good for about 3 years. Usually after a boat gets an adjustment the owner, gets new sails, bottom faired and the crew gets better. Oh my, then they win.

Back in the 90's a few boats got local adjustments now do not need them. but the only way to remove the adj,  is to have another local boat call for a review. And that creates a local conflict between competitors it becomes unfun. The rules should be written for area adjustments to have a sunset.

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50 minutes ago, Parma said:

And just for the record, it's "whining" not whinging or whinning.

Actually, it is whinging in the UK and Oz (and possibly a few other commonwealth nations as well, excluding Canada)

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14 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

I argued that, local area adjustments in our So Cal region should be only good for about 3 years. Usually after a boat gets an adjustment the owner, gets new sails, bottom faired and the crew gets better. Oh my, then they win.

Back in the 90's a few boats got local adjustments now do not need them. but the only way to remove the adj,  is to have another local boat call for a review. And that creates a local conflict between competitors it becomes unfun. The rules should be written for area adjustments to have a sunset.

You get it !

Thanks!

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2 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Actually, it is whinging in the UK and Oz (and possibly a few other commonwealth nations as well, excluding Canada)

Or maybe Espo's having a bit of sook? It's hard to tell.

But shits are definitely being given. Heh.

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19 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

I argued that, local area adjustments in our So Cal region should be only good for about 3 years. Usually after a boat gets an adjustment the owner, gets new sails, bottom faired and the crew gets better. Oh my, then they win.

Back in the 90's a few boats got local adjustments now do not need them. but the only way to remove the adj,  is to have another local boat call for a review. And that creates a local conflict between competitors it becomes unfun. The rules should be written for area adjustments to have a sunset.

Years ago PHRFSD used to automatically review the top boats in each class to assess if the rating was "too soft" but not adjust ratings if in doing so the overall results were altered. In other words we efforted to compress the corrected time deltas w/o affecting the overall results. Lots of times 3 or 6 second adjustments had no affect on the overall results but did make finishes tighter. 

At the time I argued that the bottom boats in each class should also be reviewed according to those same standards but the problem became separating proper ratings from boat handling, tactics & maintenance issues, so the thought was dropped despite a recognition that helping the bottom of the fleet was more likely to increase participation than was adjusting the top of the fleet.

I think that's what espos on about.

Regardless, making an effort to increase participation is good.

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1 hour ago, jesposito said:

Not whinning dickhead, I could give 2 shits. Sailing boat racing is dead.

If stupid shit like this this continues, the losers that are still left out there will be gone too

I'm trying to point out injustice by the PHRF comm. 

Honestly, Espo, sailboat racing is dead precisely because of the byzantine rules surrounding it - especially PHRF. So anything you insist on getting implemented/withdrawn now or later will just be another grain of sand in the desert.

Sailing has moved on.

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8 minutes ago, Parma said:

Years ago PHRFSD used to automatically review the top boats in each class to assess if the rating was "too soft" but not adjust ratings if in doing so the overall results were altered. In other words we efforted to compress the corrected time deltas w/o affecting the overall results. Lots of times 3 or 6 second adjustments had no affect on the overall results but did make finishes tighter. 

At the time I argued that the bottom boats in each class should also be reviewed according to those same standards but the problem became separating proper ratings from boat handling, tactics & maintenance issues, so the thought was dropped despite a recognition that helping the bottom of the fleet was more likely to increase participation than was adjusting the top of the fleet.

I think that's what espos on about.

Regardless, making an effort to increase participation is good.

Yep

7 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Honestly, Espo, sailboat racing is dead precisely because of the byzantine rules surrounding it - especially PHRF. So anything you insist on getting implemented/withdrawn now or later will just be another grain of sand in the desert.

Sailing has moved on.

That is why some of us are working to make changes.

 

I am arguing in our rules re-write that we should be more closely aligned with our northern neighbor in the way we look at boats, rigs and sails. I also believe we need to allow some of the older lead mines to update things to stay more competitive with the new sprit boats, who can set a code zero on a huge sprit and just motor away.

I would like to see it allowed for older boats to have a small sprit (% of the J tbd) to fly their Asym from, to make it easier to gybe. I doubt that a 1ft folding sprit on a 10' J would do anything for speed. If it was observed that there was an increase in speed, yes an adj should be given.

I want to see people feeling good even if it does little and see them get excited about their boats again. remember, we are talking about the older boats that are far different from all the newer sport/sprit boats.

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23 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

Yep

That is why some of us are working to make changes.

...

I want to see people feeling good even if it does little and see them get excited about their boats again. remember, we are talking about the older boats that are far different from all the newer sport/sprit boats.

I don't mean to crap on it, Meat. But your last sentence is really the conundrum that will be the hardest to rectify. I don't envy you guys working on the rating rules. It must be maddening. So respect for that.

But (to Parma's point) I also have a hunch your loudest detractors are not the ones in the Catalina 27s.

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52 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Honestly, Espo, sailboat racing is dead precisely because of the byzantine rules surrounding it - especially PHRF. So anything you insist on getting implemented/withdrawn now or later will just be another grain of sand in the desert.

Sailing has moved on.

Do you actually have any idea about what you are talking about, or are you just trying to rattle the bars at the money cage?

 

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1 hour ago, Jackdaw said:

Do you actually have any idea about what you are talking about, or are you just trying to rattle the bars at the money cage?

 

I could certainly be wrong, and it might be that most people actually like the byzantine rules surrounding racing. Maybe you have stats I don't. But, we all know that numbers in racing have been on the decline for years - as Espo said - while sailing in general has been growing by leaps and bounds with millennials. I think it probably fits very nicely with the "Nobody Wants to Take Up Sailing" thread. There's definitely a correlation.

Who wants to be part of "stupidity and corruption" - or the endless arguments surrounding it?

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

I could certainly be wrong, and it might be that most people actually like the byzantine rules surrounding racing. Maybe you have stats I don't. But, we all know that numbers in racing have been on the decline for years - as Espo said - while sailing in general has been growing by leaps and bounds with millennials. I think it probably fits very nicely with the "Nobody Wants to Take Up Sailing" thread. There's definitely a correlation.

Who wants to be part of "stupidity and corruption" - or the endless arguments surrounding it?

Maybe sailing & regattas should be scored on a "pass / fail" basis or the number of "likes" from your competitors.

You know......the more I think about it, the more I like it. I mean, c'mon.....think about it......you could get rid of the assholes, everybody gets a trophy and we'd all have a much better time.

Cheaper too.

Hmmmmmmmm......

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Haha yes you might be onto something there, how bout model it on figure skating - points for each clean tack gybe hoist douse rounding, singles doubles. "What a flamboyant Spinnaker, approx 50,000 sequins on that"

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Two types of racing. There is one design racing, and then there is jerking off. PHRF does a pretty good job overall for weekend warriors.  Either way we are all dinosaurs on our way out. When we are all dead and gone BIRW will have a class of OD foiling Cats with guys wearing helmets .  And there will always be assholes racing those foiling  Cats  in Helmets against drydailed J29s  and Sabre 352s on Weds nights and the bitching will start. Your either part of the problem, or part of the solution.

look at the handicap entries for the 450th annual Larchmont Race Week. What’s different now?  It’s still the same shitty mid summer WLIS  conditions  but entries are down about 1200 percent from 1957.

thats not because J105 wingnuts  are getting 3 points  

Apparently Some asshole had exactly 6 months to protest a rating and waited for the day before the regatta.  Phone calls could have been made earlier. It’s a volunteer organization and real life is an obstacle .  I would say although it’s a great travesty and he could have been bottom 1/3 instead of mid fleet, tough noogies   Get Mr Clean to investigate  

We are all swirling around the same toilet bowl. Reach out and love  one another ! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Reach out and love  one another !

Common peopel nowe, smille on you brorther.....

we our butte a mommenttes' sunlitte faddeng in the grasse..........          :)

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2 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Two types of racing. There is one design racing, and then there is jerking off. PHRF does a pretty good job overall for weekend warriors.  Either way we are all dinosaurs on our way out. When we are all dead and gone BIRW will have a class of OD foiling Cats with guys wearing helmets .  And there will always be assholes racing those foiling  Cats  in Helmets against drydailed J29s  and Sabre 352s on Weds nights and the bitching will start. Your either part of the problem, or part of the solution.

look at the handicap entries for the 450th annual Larchmont Race Week. What’s different now?  It’s still the same shitty mid summer WLIS  conditions  but entries are down about 1200 percent from 1957.

thats not because J105 wingnuts  are getting 3 points  

Apparently Some asshole had exactly 6 months to protest a rating and waited for the day before the regatta.  Phone calls could have been made earlier. It’s a volunteer organization and real life is an obstacle .  I would say although it’s a great travesty and he could have been bottom 1/3 instead of mid fleet, tough noogies   Get Mr Clean to investigate  

We are all swirling around the same toilet bowl. Reach out and love  one another !

tenor.gif?itemid=5512903

PS - on your last sentence - I'll disappear 3 seconds before you do. Take that.

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8 hours ago, jesposito said:

Thanks, spelling police

if the spelling police were in here you'd be in handcuffs

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2 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Two types of racing. There is one design racing, and then there is jerking off.

When ist the laste time you raced OD?  Plesae litsed class & datte.  Thack you.                               :)

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:
8 hours ago, jesposito said:

Thanks, spelling police

if the spelling police were in here you'd be in handcuffs

Spelleng ist notte requirred forre sailling greatnesse.  Butte yeahe, at leaste in forre some evalveuationes.                   :)

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They penalize you on the length of the sprit. Look at the tiny pecker on the class 40, for example. Based on the disappointing bow sprits, I'd say they punish them too much.

Asyms are just plain better, for sure, but they are more plain better on some hulls than others.

If you think you've got mad pole skills and you want to stick it to kids these days, you can always rig an asym on a spinnaker pole.

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8 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Two types of racing. There is one design racing, and then there is jerking off. PHRF does a pretty good job overall for weekend warriors.  Either way we are all dinosaurs on our way out. When we are all dead and gone BIRW will have a class of OD foiling Cats with guys wearing helmets .  And there will always be assholes racing those foiling  Cats  in Helmets against drydailed J29s  and Sabre 352s on Weds nights and the bitching will start. Your either part of the problem, or part of the solution.

look at the handicap entries for the 450th annual Larchmont Race Week. What’s different now?  It’s still the same shitty mid summer WLIS  conditions  but entries are down about 1200 percent from 1957.

thats not because J105 wingnuts  are getting 3 points  

Apparently Some asshole had exactly 6 months to protest a rating and waited for the day before the regatta.  Phone calls could have been made earlier. It’s a volunteer organization and real life is an obstacle .  I would say although it’s a great travesty and he could have been bottom 1/3 instead of mid fleet, tough noogies   Get Mr Clean to investigate  

We are all swirling around the same toilet bowl. Reach out and love  one another ! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wow... only 7 j105s registered.   Half of what it was when I was crewing in it a just  few years ago.  And about a half a dozen 105s for sale a mcmichael currently. 

coincidence? 

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P.s.  try to find young crew that even know what a spin pole is.  Getting tougher every day. To encourage sym spin boats to keep racing And keep things fair, I think they should all get +3 points. on their rating.   other social Initiatives to level the  playing field:

Minority crew? Plus 3 points 

undocumented alien crew?  +3 points 

crew on food stamps? +3 points per crew and free college tuition 

provide crew with rubbers and fresh drug needles? +6 points 

offer crew free healthcare +6 points!

take down the fence around your club? +1 point  (let’s not get crazy) 

Crew is Brown U or Roger  Willians U  alum? Trick question they are not allowed to crew.  URI alum is -1 if out of state- +12 if in state  

crew has criminal record? 1 year probation doing pit on a J29  if survive then +3   crew in drug treatment program? +3  and supply drugs 

if crew has all of above, +100 points and you get a free boat  and $100k tax credit and 2 weeks at a Margaritaville resort  in L.A, (Lower Alabama)

Any crew has nickname of ‘Pocahontas’? +3 and legal sports betting on board  while mooring lines are off  

Boat rates under 33 and sails less than 5 years old? Must apply toilet plunger correctors to each side of hull (J44 PAC lobbyists influence here?)

Drive a foreign  car? NOR states have to give to junior crew on weekends to be eligible to race +3 

All crew has safety at sea certificate? +6 (or exemption you can just send a check)

Manage a hedge fund and fly  Bill Clinton around in your jet? -6 and no junior crew allowed on board!!!!

Boat LOA over 57 feet? Must race with a live horny and hungry and angry goose in the cabin  

Ask crew if they are a US Citizen? -3  don’t ask +3

 

 

 

etc  

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5 minutes ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

P.s.  try to find young crew that even know what a spin pole is.  Getting tougher every day. 

We know what they are: they are those things that go on slow boats

Their proper use is to make life difficult for the young people.

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1 hour ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Minority crew? Plus 3 points   

SC helpe hyperbollize thisse liste?

1 hour ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Crew is Brown U or Roger  Willians U  alum? Trick question they are not allowed to crew. 

You stille love hime.                         :)

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2 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

P.s.  try to find young crew that even know what a spin pole is.  Getting tougher every day. To encourage sym spin boats to keep racing And keep things fair, I think they should all get +3 points. on their rating.   other social Initiatives to level the  playing field:

Minority crew? Plus 3 points 

undocumented alien crew?  +3 points 

crew on food stamps? +3 points per crew and free college tuition 

provide crew with rubbers and fresh drug needles? +6 points 

offer crew free healthcare +6 points!

take down the fence around your club? +1 point  (let’s not get crazy) 

Crew is Brown U or Roger  Willians U  alum? Trick question they are not allowed to crew.  URI alum is -1 if out of state- +12 if in state  

crew has criminal record? 1 year probation doing pit on a J29  if survive then +3   crew in drug treatment program? +3  and supply drugs 

if crew has all of above, +100 points and you get a free boat  and $100k tax credit and 2 weeks at a Margaritaville resort  in L.A, (Lower Alabama)

Any crew has nickname of ‘Pocahontas’? +3 and legal sports betting on board  while mooring lines are off  

Boat rates under 33 and sails less than 5 years old? Must apply toilet plunger correctors to each side of hull (J44 PAC lobbyists influence here?)

Drive a foreign  car? NOR states have to give to junior crew on weekends to be eligible to race +3 

All crew has safety at sea certificate? +6 (or exemption you can just send a check)

Manage a hedge fund and fly  Bill Clinton around in your jet? -6 and no junior crew allowed on board!!!!

Boat LOA over 57 feet? Must race with a live horny and hungry and angry goose in the cabin  

Ask crew if they are a US Citizen? -3  don’t ask +3

 

 

 

etc  

lulz

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15 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

I could certainly be wrong, and it might be that most people actually like the byzantine rules surrounding racing. Maybe you have stats I don't. But, we all know that numbers in racing have been on the decline for years - as Espo said - while sailing in general has been growing by leaps and bounds with millennials. I think it probably fits very nicely with the "Nobody Wants to Take Up Sailing" thread. There's definitely a correlation.

Who wants to be part of "stupidity and corruption" - or the endless arguments surrounding it?

 

Well 32 kids in California just got an early indoctrination to this, when they were told that their brand-new pride-and-joy 420s are ILLEGAL and BANNED from class racing because they were built too well. Good times! 

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The cost of a sprit and a new sail, is more than my Tanzer 22 is worth. On a good day it might fetch $2,000.00. Main jib and spinnaker at $1,500 each, and I appear to be math challenged. I also have a good #2 in mylar, and decent smaller head sails, plus a storm jib. If the old 6hp Johnson dies it will cost $2,000.00 to replace it. BUT. Most of the folks my age are either dead, or not doing much. I bought this boat many years ago. I wanted a Holland 7.6, but they were too much money. This boat was for the kids to use on the weekends, and us ( 3 guys ) to use on race nights. If I get all my other chores done, we hope to hit the start for the inshore race at Swiftsure 2020. We have already buggered up this race in my Viking 33, and a friends Catalina 38. We both have too much cruising junk on board. Class rules for the T22 will not allow me to fair the keel much, and will only accept an approved rudder. PHRF has more leeway with both.

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4 minutes ago, Unkle Krusty said:

The cost of a sprit and a new sail, is more than my Tanzer 22 is worth. On a good day it might fetch $2,000.00. Main jib and spinnaker at $1,500 each, and I appear to be math challenged. I also have a good #2 in mylar, and decent smaller head sails, plus a storm jib. If the old 6hp Johnson dies it will cost $2,000.00 to replace it. BUT. Most of the folks my age are either dead, or not doing much. I bought this boat many years ago. I wanted a Holland 7.6, but they were too much money. This boat was for the kids to use on the weekends, and us ( 3 guys ) to use on race nights. If I get all my other chores done, we hope to hit the start for the inshore race at Swiftsure 2020. We have already buggered up this race in my Viking 33, and a friends Catalina 38. We both have too much cruising junk on board. Class rules for the T22 will not allow me to fair the keel much, and will only accept an approved rudder. PHRF has more leeway with both.

The girl in your avatar looks like she's got things poled out well.

just sayin'.

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23 hours ago, Parma said:

And just for the record, it's "whining" not whinging or whinning.

Just for the record, there’s nothing incorrect about the word  “whinge”.

If you’re going to correct other people’s spelling or grammar, please take the time to get your facts straight.

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1 hour ago, Svanen said:

Just for the record, there’s nothing incorrect about the word  “whinge”.

If you’re going to correct other people’s spelling or grammar, please take the time to get your facts straight.

Espo is in America; there's no such thing as "whinge" here.

 

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12 hours ago, Parma said:
13 hours ago, Svanen said:

Just for the record, there’s nothing incorrect about the word  “whinge”.

If you’re going to correct other people’s spelling or grammar, please take the time to get your facts straight.

Espo is in America; there's no such thing as "whinge" here

Siurre theire is, whinggeng is allive an welle is US.

 

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