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With the official new peak speed record of 48.6 knots for foiling 50s now unarguably on GP's mantle..

Screen Shot 2019-07-15 at 10.07.04 AM.png

...I thought it might be a good time to start a new thread here to discuss the remainder of the 2019 season, events, boats, and sailors.

I had not really been following these races until the NY event. I had been a big fan of this format and presentation of racing when it first began with the ACWS in the last couple of AC iterations. Just phenomenal stuff. But SailGP has just taken it to a new level entirely. I'm hooked.

I'm starting this thread here because there seems to be a gaggle of AC douchemonkeys in the "Larry's AC50 Circus" thread where we've been discussing GP. They didn't seem to like GP being discussed in "their forum" (which is a precious thought in itself). Lots of unintelligible howling and poo-flinging through the bars. Maybe this new thread will solve that issue and douche the douchemonkeys as it were.

Of course, I will obviously continue to rattle the circus cage as well because they are just fun to toy with. But, I'll keep my own more serious discussions here and ignore them when they come banging around.

I have no doubt the intelligence quotient of the discussion will increase exponentially here with multi aficionados who actually know a thing or two. And there is LOTS to discuss!

In any case... looking forward to Cowes!

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What do you think of the race format?  fleet races and then a final match race.  I was sorta bummed in the San Francisco raceweek when team Japan ran away on day one but lost in the match race due to what I think they said was equipment failure (which is part of sailboat racing, I know, but bummed me anyway).   

Personally, I am not that big a fan of ginormous catamarans at the edge of technological achievements on the water...just call me old man and the sea on a tri!!

 

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I'm certainly not bashing your own preferences Thom, but personally, I think it is a tremendous format. The crowded fleet racing conditions at break-neck speeds...

Screen_Shot_2019-07-04_at_9_40.32_PM.png

...culminating in the head-to-head match race of the top-2 performers is just classic competition you see in most popular team sports. It makes a lot of sense to me.

And as you say, these guys have to get everything just right to win it. But that just shows how much power and technique they are dealing with in these boats and how thin the margins are. You don't get it just right - you lose. I think it's hella exciting.

Along these same lines it also very clear that it's all about experience in the teams. Most all the teams have been able to get their boats screaming (as you see above) - but balancing on that razor edge of performance is clearly going to the guys with the meatiest CVs with these kinds of boats and this kind of racing. I think that's a very good thing. It's truly an F1 kind of model that has some really long legs as these younger guys (and guys below them in the GC32 series, etc.) get better and better.

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In the generation before mine the yacht clubs were full of folks who purchased the $BIG$ Boats and crews to man them so they could have club honors.  Still a lot of that actually in the sport and multihullers are no different from lead draggers although you do see more owner-drivers on multihulls.  But back to Sail GP, I do like the starts and the first mark rounding.  Those are exciting.  I like the on the water coverage with video so a spectator can see what's what.  What's hard for me to "see" is the skill since so much of it is hidden in the helmsman's grips-but like you say, you can't see throttle, engine rpm or steering in F1 races.  I'm very much a seat of the pants sailor so it is difficult for me to relate to such reliance on tech to make a boat move.

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FWIW.... I'd like to see more heats and a best of 5 or 7 final..... doesn't seem like a lot of racing for all the infrastructure and cost.

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Thom, the SailGP app is incredibly good at showing you all the realtime datapoints coming from the boats...

IMG_0059.png

Add to that the fact that you can select the onboard camera and stats for each of the boats while it's racing (instead of the overall view above) - and you can get pretty damn close to "being on the boat" and seeing what's happening.

As for the tech - that's just what it takes to get this kind of performance. I applaud it.

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I'm enjoying it a ton. The format is good and there's a lot of money in keeping interest alive - all the short videos released on YouTube and Instagram every 3rd day or so. Build up the personalities, stoke the drama. 

The sailing is fantastic. I find it similar to the Suoerfoiler. In fact it felt closer on the SF as the boats were smalliand you could see the action.

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Oh no I meant superfoiler. I wasn't in SF. I'm on the east coast and was pretty tempted to head to NYC. A friend has a small two handed foiler there and I've promised to sail with him, so it would have been ideal weekend trip.

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Very cool. Yeah, I'm kicking myself for not catching one of the US events. But the app sure makes watching the previous races fun.

Cheers.

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On 7/16/2019 at 9:42 AM, MultiThom said:

What do you think of the race format?  fleet races and then a final match race. 

It's a major detractor IMO.  Unfortunately there's only two teams really in it - Japan and Australia - so the fleet races jsut feel like exhibitions before what everyone knows is an inevitable final between those two.  I'd rather 1 or 2 fleet races to determine the seeds for a knock-out match racing series with the top two seeds progressing straight to the semis while 3 vs 6 and 4v 5 compete in best of 3 series to determine the other semi-finalists.  Semis and finals also best of 3.  Sure, it will likely still end up as an Aus v Jap final, but a revised format will at least allow for the odd upset and give the less experienced teams more time on the water in race conditions.

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To get a sense of the power of these boats - check out the French team working like hell to control it...

Great stuff!

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Wow, that looked bloody hard, stressful work. Reinforces just how good the top 2 teams are!

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Yeah those NY conditions were some of the toughest I've ever seen in any racing of this kind. A real test for both the boats and the sailors for sure...as it should be!

The China boat was just as hectic...

 

It will be great to watch these younger teams improve in next year's series. Speaking of - announcement on that coming soon...

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I sail an easy 2 up cat foiler, and it's a handful any day. Things happen in a blink and when you're half a second behind, you are lost. In particular when the conditions are uneven with strong gusts as these guys had them. In strong winds, foilers act up in really wild ways, conditions where you have a mix of 6kt lulls and 35kt gusts are just insane.

There's a video of the aussies on the final reaching leg to the finish of the first race, and the onboard audio reveals they're struggling to control it. I saw it somewhere (instagram?), but can't find again. Team Japan's final leg on the final race (onboard comms: "it's turbulent") is IMO a riff on that.

Surprised only one boat broke.

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That's a great post Martin. In another thread there has been a lot of talk about "fly time" and how the F50s compare with the previous generation of foiling cats, which often had near-perfect fly times in Bermuda. But I really think that is completely missing the point. These F50s and these races are virtually NOTHING like those past events or boats. As I've said, and as waterhouse says in your post, keeping the boats on the foils is obviously optimal. BUT these are new boats, with new tech, and new teams that are still trying to figure them out in some very challenging racing conditions. So, while showing a 100% fly, or "ride" time at some point in a race is easy to do...

IMG_0069.png

...it's not really meaningful. This is not just 2 boats moving at less than 30 knots in a 9 knot breeze and flat water with plenty of room. This is racing.

You have to keep in mind the crowded and aggressive nature of these SailGP races. To get 100% ride time, that means you have to hit the start already on the foils. But this kind of racing, unlike the past events, doesn't really provide for that - IF the racers are good at what they are doing (meaning crowding/dipping/hooking competitors at the start). This is much better strategy than always trying to be on foils 100% of the time.

Even so, and even with this new flight controller tech and separate crew to run it - when the conditions are more than a breath of breeze, we are seeing what I think are incredible ride times by these more experienced teams.

The Sydney races had such light air (5-9 knots) that you were just not going to get consistent ride times. Then there was the NY event which according to everyone who raced it, were some of the most challenging conditions they'd EVER faced in ANY race. That's a great thing to hear. It should absolutely be part of the equation so that these teams and boats face a wider range of sailing challenges than just keeping a boat perfectly on its foils...which can get pretty damn boring.

But, then you have the SF races. Much more favorable conditions for foiling...and very good ride time ratios across the whole race...

IMG_0089.png

 

IMG_0081.png

 

IMG_0080.png

 

But again this is 6 aggressive boats in close-in racing on a tight track, in ~15 knots of wind, and speeds up to 45+ knots. 100% ride time is not the point here...though it's obviously the ultimate goal. The full-race winning ride times in these SF fleet races were generally in the ~80% range. And given these conditions and circumstances, I think that's pretty amazing.

Then we have the match racing finals which is much more akin to the Bermuda events. And here, it's obvious that it's much easier to pull off a near-perfect full-race ride time...even at much higher speeds...

IMG_0094.png

 

This is obviously to be expected in a race with just a couple of boats and a wide-open track. But again, because these boats have such incredible acceleration and power, and because the skippers are smart about how they push each other at the starts, 100% ride time might not even be a good strategy, especially in the match racing.

This is why SailGP is so impressive. It will be great to watch the next couple of events as these crews really dial in these boats. Hopefully, the conditions will keep challenging them. It sure makes for great racing.

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BTW,

here is a combined Playlist I made myself from the 3 SailGP Events in Sydney, San Francisco and New York :)

I've downloaded all the content from SailGP this year so if some Videos are Geo-blocked please sent me an PM and I'll see what I can do.

Let this Thread be great :)

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7 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The Japanese Comeback

I just love these guys. The Japanese Team have quickly become my Favourites for this Season.

Which Team do you support @smackdaddy& @martin.langhoff?

Well, being a Yank, I have to pull for Kirby. But he and his team are so young and just getting the hang of things. They've shown some flashes of brilliance, but they are definitely no match for AUS and JPN.

I've not been at all surprised at the AUS showing. They are just so dominate. But I am impressed with JPN since they're working with a more mixed team.

I just enjoy the racing. I really do.

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17 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Well, being a Yank, I have to pull for Kirby. But he and his team are so young and just getting the hang of things. They've shown some flashes of brilliance, but they are definitely no match for AUS and JPN.

I've not been at all surprised at the AUS showing. They are just so dominate. But I am impressed with JPN since they're working with a more mixed team.

I just enjoy the racing. I really do.

Well, I am a German. Unfortunately we have no Team in SailGP right now. I always liked Nathan though so it's obvious I would support them then :)

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Very cool. I was in Southampton a few years back to look at Camper for a prospective television show. Great place - and Nicolle & Associates were great people. I really wish I could have gotten on the water, just not enough time in that trip.

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14 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Very cool. I was in Southampton a few years back to look at Camper for a prospective television show. Great place - and Nicolle & Associates were great people. I really wish I could have gotten on the water, just not enough time in that trip.

This is the Area where the Cowes SailGP will be held

Cowes_RaceMap_v3_120619.png

Looks pretty good. Now all that we need is some wind for August 10/11 ;)

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Looks like it can get a little bit sporty this time of year. We'll see!

Screen-Shot-2019-07-18-at-3.02.14-PM.png

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15 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Looks like it can get a little bit sporty this time of year. We'll see!

Screen-Shot-2019-07-18-at-3.02.14-PM.png

Could be also very light. That's the downside of it. I remember the ACWS in 2016 in Portsmouth when on the 1st Day they had very light wind hence Groupama did well and then on the 2nd Day they had 14-16 knots.

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6 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The Japanese Comeback

I just love these guys. The Japanese Team have quickly become my Favourites for this Season.

Which Team do you support @smackdaddy& @martin.langhoff?

I'm an adopted kiwi but there's no black boat here... We're mostly rooting for Nate, but I seem to have reasons to be happy for pretty much every team involved. Everyone comes to foil in Miami it seems and the watering holes are few...

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Pretty cool to see that peak-speed record in near real-time...

Screen-Shot-2019-07-18-at-9.18.08-PM.png

Absolutely incredible. It's impossible to catch the exact moment it hits the actual 48.7 in this app, it happened really quickly - but that's pretty damn close. This was in a 28 knot gust in crazy conditions in the shadow of Manhattan. Imagine if they can hold steady in 20 knots of wind and cleaner air!

50's comin'! Whaddayasay Cowes?

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So what do the pros think about SailGP?

Davies has been with the AC program for 18 years. And of all the racing he's ever seen and/or been involved, his favorite moment is exactly what we just saw with the SailGP NY event...

 

Difficult conditions make for great racing! It's also a great testament to both the history and currency of SailGP racing. Great stuff.

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Good lord - the travesty...Jason can't eat Milky Bars?

 

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And a great summation of what SailGP is all about from Richie...

 

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fantastic...I guess....I'll just assume there's some sort of payment involved.   What happens when Uncle Larry doesn't want to pay the bills?

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We'll see. As mentioned in the AUS video above it seems the teams are working full-time to establish corporate relationships. As you know, that's how the game works. I'd actually say GP is positioned very well in that regard. With VOR sinking, the AC falling off its foils, and Extreme folding into GC32 which will be a great talent feeder, this format and infrastructure sure seems like a good bet.

But we won't know until we know.

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I think one of the best anecdotes of the interview that really underscores the appeal of SailGP is at the 7:40 mark where Chuck Nice talks about seeing the event from land along with the rest of the crowd of New Yorkers who had never seen a sailing race before. Everyone stayed because it was so freakin' exciting.

"This is New York...people see crap all the time and are like 'oh, okay'...and then go on about their businss. People were stopping and watching the entire race and races - it was incredible."

'Nuff said.

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It really is a great show - another thing discussed is the fact that ALL teams have ALL realtime data coming off ALL the boats, both during and after the races. I think this is a brilliant approach. It ensures that the racing will always be tight - and the best team will always win (while also helping the less experienced teams learn).

1200 channels of data. So basically, the performance analyst (Phil) is another crewmember. He's just tucked in a fully-wired box in a parking lot feeding instructions to the sailors. Insane.

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Can you watch the realtime events via the app? I wouldn't think so - but I don't know. I assume it's only giving you the races after they are run. There is so much data with the races and all the boats that I just don't see how you could push that much data real-time. But it's a phenomenal way to watch the past races.

I'll be interested to see the coverage options for Cowes. It seems to only be available on CBS Sports Network, which would explain why some people who say they "hate it" are complaining that they can't wake up at 0230 and watch it live because it's GEO-blocked.

The app offers you the ability turn off "spoilers". So you can still experience the racing like you normally would in the app - you just can't look at anything else beforehand if you want to be surprised. I suppose the key is how quickly they put up the races after they are actually run.

Does anyone know what that time frame has typically been for the past events?

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Well, I can watch SailGP only via YouTube & FB and I dearly would love to watch it on the App. The App is only available via I-Phones, IOS Devices, Mobile Phones, etc.

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Since most of the guys who have been talking about the differences between the old AC50s and the new F50s don't really know what they are talking about, I thought it would be good to put up some info from someone who does: Emily Nagel...

https://yachtracing.life/sailgp-teams-crunch-the-numbers-in-search-of-performance-gains/

"YRL: Emily – you were involved on the design-side with these boats during the last America’s Cup with Softbank Team Japan, how different are the boats now after their modifications? Can you explain the key differences?

Emily Nagel: On the outside the only noticeable difference is the paint job, but inside it’s a whole new beast! You can see that there are only two grinders now and that’s because two pumps were installed. The grinders are only providing the muscle for controlling the wing sheet, everything else is done by the pumps. This means that the control of the boards is much more efficient as it’s almost impossible to run out of oil, just by changing the rake or moving the board up and down.

Also, in general more can be adjusted with full control of the rudder rake now while sailing and adjustment of different settings for dropping the boards (the sailors can choose from three modes that alter the rate of the board drop: whether it goes down by freefall or whether the pump or the accumulator is used).

There is also a huge amount of tech onboard, not just the new flight controller but a very advanced wing display designed by the geniuses at Artemis Technology. There are electronic controls on a lot of the systems as well allowing sailors to choose the rate at which the foils are adjusted and setting speeds and angles at which the boards are raised.

We joke with their systems engineers that if they wanted to they could turn the autopilot on –  there isn’t one of course, but if anyone could make one these guys could!"

...

Emily Nagel: I think one of the important things for people to realise is that data is becoming more and more important in the sailing world. Many are still strongly of the belief that it is all about instinct and feeling and that numbers can just be a distraction. That certainly is true to a certain extent, but if it is done carefully and used as a tool data analysis can be extremely useful.

The provision of open data between the SailGP teams creates a very positive learning environment in which everyone is improving currently at an exponential rate. There have been many complaints/criticisms that not everyone has fully mastered the foiling manoeuvres yet, but if you think back to the America’s Cup and how long it took the teams to work out foiling tacks on the AC45’s, it was years of development and training.

These SailGP teams only started sailing six months ago. Before the first event in Sydney many had only had 11 hours of training time on the water. I don’t think that would have been possible without having the performance data available and the steep learning curves we are seeing are only possible because the teams are able to learn from each other in a way that in all other regattas is not possible.

++++++++

This is obviously just getting started.

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23 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

Well, I can watch SailGP only via YouTube & FB and I dearly would love to watch it on the App. The App is only available via I-Phones, IOS Devices, Mobile Phones, etc.

Bummer. I have it on my iPad. Hopefully they will listen to the obvious demand and expand the offerings. But for live events with a broadcast partner, there are definitely exclusivity issues at play, which is understandable from a business perspective.

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It certainly appears that the SF and NY events had quite an impact...

Screen-Shot-2019-07-20-at-2.25.37-PM.png

(FR isn't shown here but has 4.5K.)

A quarter million fans? Wow. JPN is smokin' the likes as well!

We'll see if GBR gets a similar pop after Cowes.

Finally, I'm happy to report that Biscuits IS interested in the Marseille event. We were all biting our nails on that one. Heh.

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22 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

It certainly appears that the SF and NY events had quite an impact...

Screen-Shot-2019-07-20-at-2.25.37-PM.png

(FR isn't shown here but has 4.5K.)

A quarter million fans? Wow. JPN is smokin' the likes as well!

We'll see if GBR gets a similar pop after Cowes.

Finally, I'm happy to report that Biscuits IS interested in the Marseille event. We were all biting our nails on that one. Heh.

Uhhh bro... the USA page is the old Oracle Team USA AC page and Japan's is the SoftBank Team Japan AC page, so those 'fans' are actually AC ones, not SGP. 

But nice try! B)

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That doesn't matter. SailGP is what they were building toward then with the ACWS and what it has now become - same exact continuum. And people sure seem to like it. What you should watch for is whether there is a mass drop-off in likes/follows for that US team page - or if there is growth. Same with the other teams. Time will tell.

Wait, are you Biscuits?

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Just now, smackdaddy said:

That doesn't matter. SailGP is what they were building toward then with the ACWS and what it has now become - same exact continuum. And people sure seem to like it.What you should watch for is whether there is a mass drop-off in likes/follows for that US team page - or if there is growth. Same with the other teams.

Wait, are you Biscuits?

There has been a massive drop off actually... And if you think AC match racing has anything to do with minnow fleet racing then I have a poorly attended sailing league to sell you...

Still, hardly surprising given you didn't even know what 'AC35' meant until a few days ago.

Anyway, keep shilling, no doubt in a few months you'll have abandoned this little pursuit like all the other of your failed 'ventures'... And will leave SGP to the real fans

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Okay rh. I'm just here trying to talk about an event I like. That's really it. I thought this is what you guys said you wanted..and also what you complained about in the other thread?

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Oh I'll leave you to your shilling of SGP generally... Given the lack of effect it's of no consequence to me or anyone really

It's just the odd outright lie that some may choose to point out from time to time :-)

I guess the less we see of you trolling other threads the less likely we are to be reminded to bother checking here...

I'll leave you to go back to talking to yourself again :wub:

 

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Thanks. Just passing time until Cowes.

Good luck to you guys.

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1 hour ago, rh3000 said:

... And will leave SGP to the real fans

Huh. Do the 'real fans' not want company? 

Sure, Smack is coming on strong (kinda his M.O.), but he's enthusiastic.

No room for that?

Randii

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I'm sure most everyone here already gets most of this - but an interested breakdown nonetheless for those that might not...

I think it's a good illustration of how GP is putting in effort to help the unitiated understand what they are watching.

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23 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

I'm sure most everyone here already gets most of this - but an interested breakdown nonetheless for those that might not...

I think it's a good illustration of how GP is putting in effort to help the unitiated understand what they are watching.

+1. It is somehow missing the "protest this, Parko" line from Nate when he squeezed Slingsby into the final mark in SFO :-)

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2 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I am a bit surprised that SailGP didn't go to Hongkong or Tokyo this year but maybe we'll get there in 2020.

With all the current unrest, it might be a good thing they gave it a miss this time round. That said, I agree that HK seems like a perfect fit. We'll see what happens next season.

With Coutt's vision being 12 teams and 20 events, there's a lot of growth coming.

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11 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

With all the current unrest, it might be a good thing they gave it a miss this time round. That said, I agree that HK seems like a perfect fit. We'll see what happens next season.

With Coutt's vision being 12 teams and 20 events, there's a lot of growth coming.

They could use Kai Tak Airport where the VOR had their Village in 2018 as the Tech Area. They could also use the same Course the VOR was using for the In-Port Race.

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3 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

They could use Kai Tak Airport where the VOR had their Village in 2018 as the Tech Area. They could also use the same Course the VOR was using for the In-Port Race.

You know, I loved the VOR in-ports. They kept he tracks tight enough that you had some really good crowded races. Good times.

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As always - great stuff...

And, as requested, they give me a bit of a shout out at the very end. Thanks fellas!

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Still not much to like for me as a spectator.  Might as well be watching one of the Pacific Rim movies=people controlling giant machines to ward off alien mutants invading the oceans.  How much "gee whiz" can you handle....I've had enough.  

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13 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Still not much to like for me as a spectator.  Might as well be watching one of the Pacific Rim movies=people controlling giant machines to ward off alien mutants invading the oceans.  How much "gee whiz" can you handle....I've had enough.  

Interesting comment, Thom. I'm not sure I understand your complaint though. What do you think would be a better approach?

To me this is very much like F1 racing on water. High speed, high tech, high stakes - with very real consequences due to that speed and power. All sailing is people controlling machines - this is just a much higher level of that.

Again, I'm not trashing your viewpoint, I'm just interested in more detail.

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I don't watch F1 or any motor racing either.  Bottom line, I'm not a "watcher".   To be interesting 1) the announcers have to be personable--currently the announcers for this venue have been "m'eh".  2) Relatable--you'd think that having raced multihulls for 20 years it would be relateable--but it aint because these aren't sailboats, they are ginormous machines like fighter jets---nobody is winching in jibs, nobody is hauling the mainsheet or letting down the traveler. Nobody is watching telltales, nobody is looking at competition to see if we're going to be ahead at the cross..... No tiller--got these ginormous wheels with control systems built in.  Seriously, it's a video game for the participants and just boring tv for me to watch.  The only exciting thing for me is watching the fleet race from the start line to the first mark.  OTOH, I was very much a fan of superfoilers since there were many more things I could relate to.  But basically, I'm not a watcher by nature.  Prefer do'ing to watch'ing.  Mebe when I'm in my 80s...

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Yeah - I saw some of the same complaints in the AC version of this thread...the lack of the more traditional aspects of sailing/racing. That doesn't bother me a bit. We see very few junk rigs and radical overhangs in boats these days too. I'm sure some out there miss that. But technology moves on.

That said, I do hold that when these boats are hitting speeds near 50 knots (think about that for a second) and turning on a dime with 2.5 Gs throwing these guys around - it's far from a video game. It's a brave new world of racing. And I like it!

So, I definitely don't agree with most of your points, but understand people like different things for different reasons. I'm cool with that. Cheers.

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Agreed on WATCHING vs. DOING.

Beyond that, though... when I watch drag racing, it is SENSORY. Beyond just my eyeballs, i can hear it and feel it... and yes, relate to it a bit.

Ball-oriented sports, I'm in a crowded stadium or arena, and part of the fun of that is hearing and feeling the crowd while I watch the players (that I can't relate well to). 120K people watching football at Michigan Stadium is crazy and fun, and much of that comes from being part of the crowd.

Watching sports on TV has big screen potential, but still conveys only visuals with some sound... regardless of how well the sideline stories are produced. Watching sailing on a phone or computer, even with great production... that's smaller visual and even less sound.

I'd rather take the the beach cat out sailing and see, feel, and hear it. Bonus if I can smell the water or the shore, and best if I can taste the salt spray. Even if i can't spare the time to get on the water, i can work on the big boat in the sideyard and get better sense than Youtube can offer.

Randii (sensory addict?)

 

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That's actually why I like the app so much. Being able to switch between the cameras and have the on-board audio and visuals really puts you right in the mix. As in the "Get on Board" videos above, there is the water crashing over the decks/crew - the sounds of how hard the grinders are working, etc. I think that's great from a sensory perspective (much better than most televised sport).

I get that it's still not "actually doing it". But though I love sailing our beachcat - I also love seeing these guys at the very top of the game sailing the F1 version. It makes me enjoy actually doing it even more!

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Watching vs doing -- I had a similar feeling a couple years ago, and I found a way to get my hands on a small foiling cat. It is a ton of fun.

The strange behaviors of the big cats -- and the Superfoiler trimarans -- closely match the quirks of the small foilers. For me, it's damn exciting to see how a SailGP cat reacts to a big gust by skidding sideways or leaping out of the water, because I battle with the same forces.

These are fun toys, and they've been around for a bit, so there's a good chance you can catch a ride on one. Try it. You might like it :-)

 

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I've been very tempted to try the GT300 catamaran race since it's in my backyard. I've done that same run in different offshore races - but on monohulls. I certainly wouldn't do it on our current, ancient-but-awesome beachcat, but was thinking of what upgrade we might go with in the next couple of years. The Whisper and iFly cats look freakin' awesome.

But I'd sure want a lot of time with it before trying something like the GT300 since that's "open ocean" - and I doubt we'd ever be able to do anything but spurts of foiling - but it sure would be cool.

Does anyone know if there have been any foilers in these distance beach-cat ocean races?

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5 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

Does anyone know if there have been any foilers in these distance beach-cat ocean races?

Florida 300 a couple years ago had a couple Nacra 20 FCS with the foiling setup. It turned out to be a bad idea. Foilers don't do well in swells, and they definitely don't do well approaching an unfamiliar beach. I think Todd posted here in SA about that adventure, but I don't know the thread title. 

Foilers are also physically intense. Where I'd take an F18 sailing for a day, two hours are plenty on my Whisper cat (which is pretty much an F18), three hours a total beating.

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Makes sense. That's what I was wondering. I'll see if I can find that thread. Thanks, Martin.

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On 7/25/2019 at 5:46 AM, smackdaddy said:

Interesting comment, Thom. I'm not sure I understand your complaint though. What do you think would be a better approach?

To me this is very much like F1 racing on water. High speed, high tech, high stakes - with very real consequences due to that speed and power. All sailing is people controlling machines - this is just a much higher level of that.

Again, I'm not trashing your viewpoint, I'm just interested in more detail.

Your choice of F1 could not be further from the truth.  The F1 teams are required to design and build their vehicles, just like the America's Cup.  

Your F50 teams are given their vehicles.  If you must compare to motor racing take a look at the Indy Cars, each team has the same car so that the skill is in the setup for the different circuits and the ability of the driver.

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6 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

Your choice of F1 could not be further from the truth.  The F1 teams are required to design and build their vehicles, just like the America's Cup.  

Your F50 teams are given their vehicles.  If you must compare to motor racing take a look at the Indy Cars, each team has the same car so that the skill is in the setup for the different circuits and the ability of the driver.

"Further from the truth?" I think you're getting a little overwrought there, Ter. I'm talking about the racing - not the car per se.

Isn't Indy racing exclusively in one country? F1 isn't and neither is GP. Also, the Indy tracks seem to be more simplistic than F1 tracks in different venues around the world - like GP. No, I think the F1 analogy is perfectly apt.

The boat design/build aspect of AC is perfectly fine for AC, although that too seems to be getting somewhat watered down at the moment. But comparing AC to F1 in terms of racing "could not be further from the truth".

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At the end of the day...this is what it's all about...

And when you hear a 15-year-old kid use the word "insane" 6 or 7 times in a single statement, you understand that this is definitely not grandpa's blue blazer racing.

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On 7/26/2019 at 6:04 PM, Terry Hollis said:

Your choice of F1 could not be further from the truth.  The F1 teams are required to design and build their vehicles, just like the America's Cup.  

Your F50 teams are given their vehicles.  If you must compare to motor racing take a look at the Indy Cars, each team has the same car so that the skill is in the setup for the different circuits and the ability of the driver.

Oh Terry! What smackedbydaddy meant by saying "F1" was that they are both 'racing' see? Not anything else... for instance... he actually meant to say 'Hot dog eating competition'... Because that is racing Too! and you decided to discuss detail with Him!? How prolly foolish!

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3 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

 

And when you hear a 15-year-old kid use the word "insane" 6 or 7 times in a single statement, you understand that this is definitely not grandpa's blue blazer racing.

I Can't Wait for your Tshirt Series to be available - these Official Slogans are Prolly great!

Please Make sure You have them in Clown Kids sizes

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20 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

At the end of the day...this is what it's all about...

And when you hear a 15-year-old kid use the word "insane" 6 or 7 times in a single statement, you understand that this is definitely not grandpa's blue blazer racing.

I 100% agree with you here :) Amazing to see these Kids so excited.

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I 100% agree with me too! This forum is great! It's just the three...errr.. I Mean two of Us spoonfeeding each other video clips and soundbites like the warm diarrhoea that it is!

Remember that time that one foolish guy tried to point out how our claim that this is like F1 wasn't very accurate! We Sure Told That Prolly Clown! We meant both 'race'! Duh!

And there was that @NeedAClew lass that was actually interested in discussing SGP, but we told her to stay away! There's no way we'd want the fan count for SGP to be higher than us thr.... TWO!

I love you smack! How so easily impressed you are by a beach cat regatta in NY harbour ! Can you love me back? I need More snark likes!

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7 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I 100% agree with you here :) Amazing to see these Kids so excited.

Yeah, here is US Sailing's mention of the event...

https://www.ussailing.org/news/sailgp-odp/

I liked the fact that the young lady in the vid was already racing Nacras. I think multis will continue to grow in popularity in these programs as monos continue to fade a bit. Regardless, you can see the strong appeal of GP to this younger generation. As mentioned in the USS article, her excitement was through the roof...

Quote

Charlotte Versavel is an accomplished 16-year-old Nacra 15 sailor participating in the ODP, witnessed this work ethic first hand as she was invited to ride-along the supercharged F50 during a practice session. Though the session was unfortunately cancelled due to the weather, Versavel was beaming nonetheless.

“I can totally see SailGP in my future,” she said. “Sailors who have grown up going to these ODP clinics and are now sailing Olympic boats, that’s the pathway to this top level of the sport.”

That's really cool to see. It was clear she was bummed about the rainout - but she's definitely hooked. Go the Charlotte!

PS - Do I have this right: sclarke = forourselves = dgunt_sailingfanny? I'm having a hard time keeping straight the knotted sock ball I inadvertently wandered into over there.

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Wow. And you used to be something else as well rh? Do you have any other socks? Just trying to figure out who I'm talking to.

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I used to be rh2600 but got upgraded... Same account

When not getting schooled - you appear to be mostly talking to yourself. :rolleyes:

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9 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

I used to be rh2600 but got upgraded... Same account

When not getting schooled - you appear to be mostly talking to yourself. :rolleyes:

As I've said from the beginning, I'm just talking about SailGP because it interests me. If others want to join in that's fine. If not - that's fine too.

There appear to be as many actual posters in this thread as there were in the other. So I don't really see a difference - other than it's not nearly as hysterical here. Again, I'm not trolling your AC threads. No interest. Are you guys really unable to do the same?

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I'll do my best mate, I'll do my best

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That's all anyone could ask I suppose. Anyway, I think that clew person will keep you guys updated over there on SailGP. So it's all good.

Out of curiosity - what was the +400 for?

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A good article mentioned/linked here:

Also another article from the same website prior to that that had this tidbit which really draws out how unique and demanding SailGP is - from those who know better than anyone on the planet (Slingsby in this case)...

Quote

Q: Do you think RC will again limit your time on the water ahead of Cowes and Marseilles?

A: "Yes. Unfortunately we will be handicapped in terms of training time again in Cowes and Marseille. Look, it is what it is. We didn't sign up knowing that we would get so much less training time, but SailGP are trying to make the racing closer, and more exciting. They are thinking about the bigger picture, and whilst I don't agree, it is what it is. We need to make the most of the limited training we get..."

Q: How will you prepare for those events, given the prize at the end?

A: "Unfortunately, there are no classes in the world like the F50, so training for the events is next to impossible. A lot of teams sail GC32s. I think that's great for 'crew development' type training, but still not too similar to what we are doing. We are going to do a lot more theory training with our playbooks, and work on how we can improve in our efficiency, so that when we do get to sail, we need to use every minute wisely. Obviously, whatever time we have on the water is unbelievably precious to our title campaign."

..and this fits what I've been saying about the F50s and the GC32s and how they align. You add in the ODP and you really have a strong talent and interest pipeline for years to come.

I get Slingsby's complaints - but I think it's very smart business at this early stage. It sure as hell has made for very exciting racing. Looking forward to Cowes to see how each of these teams will have improved over NY.

And keep this little tidbit in mind from Outteridge:

Quote

The latest design foils, and the addition of more rudder differential means that the boats are now capable of four times the actual wind speed, which still blows my mind.

As it should Nathan - as it should.

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As could be expected, there has been a lot of talk about how the F50s compare to the AC50s. The reality is - they don't really. They are definitely next-gen technology with much finer control. A great breakdown here if you're interested...

Supercharged: Why the F50 is the perfect boat for SailGP...

https://sailgp.com/news/why-the-f50-perfect/

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On 7/28/2019 at 3:10 PM, rh3000 said:

When not getting schooled - you appear to be mostly talking to yourself. :rolleyes:

Must be heavily invested in the program.  I wonder if Anarchy ought to charge for free advo-or did he buy an ad?  At least Rapido bought an ad.

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@smackdaddy,

I expect 3 Teams to contend for the Cowes SailGP Title: Japan, Australia and the Brits.

I think the Brits will be strong here. Their capsize in NY was very unfortunate.

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