CDL

First boat: C&C 27 Mk V vs. 29 Mk II

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Hey Folks, 

I’m a bit stuck on making a decision surrounding the purchase of our first boat and there is a bit of time crunch if I want to make it happen for this season so I’m looking for your opinions. Initially my heart was set on the C&C 27 Mk V but there are a number of 29’s (and 27 Mk III’s) in the area and folks have been getting me to reconsider to avoid the transport costs telling me they don’t feel there is much difference between the two. I have a young family (2 kids under 3) and plan on spending a lot of time cruising but also plan on racing it around the club under white sails (to start) and may be doing a lot of this single handed (until I can build a crew). This is why I was leaning towards the 27 Mk V but am being swayed to entertain the idea of going the way of a 29 Mk II. I have an opportunity right now to pick up either one but would have to transport the 27 considerably farther though if I jump now I can save myself a few thousand in transport due to a round trip scenario. If you were in my position which would you go for and why? Feel free to get as technical as you want, Thanks!

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20 years ago, I had a C&C 27 Mk V. Sailed it on Eastern Long Island Sound and to Block Island. For what it is, and at the price, I thought it was a great boat. Sailed well and pointed well. Only wished mine had an inboard. 

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29 is about 50% bigger than the 27-5 by displacement.

27-5 is much higher horsepower - Sa/D in the 20 range VS 17 or so for the 29.

Since you have small kids I'd go for the 27-5 - lots cheaper to operate and easier to handle.

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The two boats are close in size- LOA -I prefer the inboard spade rudder for racing--and cruising.  The 29 II will have a little more water capacity and slightly better cruising accommodation,  There is about 30 more sq feet of sail area in the 29 II. The PHRF rating is fairly close--Not a lot rated, but it appears that the 29 would be slightly faster by that criteria.    I would personally prefer the 29.

However there is a lot more to consider:  What shape is each boat in?  When was the boat  last re-rigged?  What condition are the sails?  How about deck/cockpit sole for water intrusion (Balsa core in both), Condition of engine?  Is the boat set up for single handing?  I see one 29 has a wheel the other tiller--for that size boat I prefer the tiller for racing--but when cruising with the family a wheel may be better, especially with small children.  (Access quickly forward and trimming may be more difficult with the wheel, but it keeps the tiller out of the kid's way--and the sudden changes, which may require a lot of helm, or even tacking/jibing).  

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For all things C&C, go here:

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/

The action is in the email list.  Those guys know pretty much everything there is to know about C&C boats.  They are a friendly and helpful bunch so you may want to also post your question with them.   

 

 

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Both good boats, but I'd look hardest at the one with an inboard in reasonable condition.  Sometimes little kids just need to be somewhere else reliably and with minimum fuss.  The biggest expense in both money and anxiety can come from having a crappy engine.

And get an awning.  Makes the boat 2x the size and is good for too much sun and too much rain.

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I would go for the 27 it's a great little boat and sails well

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Another vote for which one is in better shape - purchase price is usually secondary to owning costs.  Unless you really enjoy working on them. 

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The 27Mk5 is a little over 26'. The 29MK2 is 28'6".  Both boats rate within 3 sec.  The MK5 has an outboard rudder and is substantially smaller inside.  The MK5 has either an outboard or Yanmar 1GM.  The 29-2 has has a Yanmar 2gMF or 2GM20.  Having owned a 29-2 and a current boat with a boat with a 1GM10. Get the 29-2, much quieter and smoother.  The 27MK5 was designed to race against S2.79s in buoy courses.  The 29-2 is more of big boat. I did a Mackinac race on mine.  They made the 29-2 between 1983 and 1986 in both St. Catherines Ont and Bristol RI. The US boats start with hull 600. Slight variations during model run. Only notable one is the stanchion attachment. 85 and later stanchions were through bolted through toe rail and hull to deck joint.  Watch out for delam under wheel in cockpit. Also pay close attention to sump in mast step area

Jude2.jpg

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I've sailed and raced both , currently own a 29-2.  I'd buy the 29-2,  bit faster, better space inside. The 84 has a nicer finish inside than the 83, dont know why. I had a choice of tiller or wheel. I went wheel since C&C make 'compact' cockpits to allow interior space, the tiller is a PITA when cruising with kids.  I have the yanmar 2GM 13hp, it works pretty well. 

29-2 also has an offset prop , so prop walk on a fixed prop or shitty martec is aweful. I switched this yr to a Flexfold, its literally changed to way the boat handles. It sails like a 'bigger' boat than it is. 

The rudder is probably wet on all the C&C of that vintage, the mast step is a known issue and the windows can be a curse, other than that they are both pretty nice. 

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all the way to post 12 and no one has given the greeting to the newb? jfc the wheels are falling off around here. give your heads a shake.

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The 29 will have more room, and I think they all have an inboard diesel. Use a geared folding prop, like the Slipstream, or Flexifold, not a Martec. The 29 has always seemed to be more money than they were worth, compared to other boats. But if you can find one at a good price, that would be my choice. Also in that size range, is the Perry designed Aloha 27, which I think is a sweet boat. There are other boats with more volume, 28, 29, and 30 feet. Which gets you to the Catalina 30. For years I owned a Tanzer 8.5, which had more room than the C&C 29, was slower in light air, but handled heavy air quite well. Resale is lousy in some markets. Many folks like the C&C 29, so resale is good.

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27-3 is just shy of 28', almost nothing between that and the 29-2 in terms of size - depends on if your preference is for bunks at the side or a dinette.

The 27-5 is (as said) much smaller in all ways and race-focussed. The 27-3 is also a fair chunk lighter (~1200lbs) than the 29-2 but with a similar SA/D. The 27-3 will leave a 29-2 for dust in light air, and likely when it's a bit snortier too, but of course will need to reef a touch earlier.

I'd take a 27-3 over a 29-2 any day. But that's me.

All are good boats though, you'll like any of them in good condition.

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I think both 27's and 29's have bunks on the sides, no dinettes. Think they both got the folding bulkhead mounted tables. The 29-1 had a sort of nav station and they dropped that on the 29-2 to make more interior space. The 29-1 and 29-2 are completely different boats.

The 29-2 is a bit of a dog in really light air, but way better than my shark24 so I think I'm fast......

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I'm not sure the 29-2 is that big of a dog in the light stuff. Granted, the 29-1 was faster in the light, the 29-2 was way faster anytime wind went over 15 with a spinnaker up when a 29-1 starts to broach all over the place  The 29-2 is an all around boat. No super performance bands and no weak ones either. The MK5 is a good buoy boat but a bit cramped for a cruise with the family. Last years Bayview Mac in light air the 29-2 did pretty well. The key in light is get the stern out of the water and the weight out of the boat. We raced with no water in the tanks, 1 battery, anchor in hanging locker, crew forward in light air. The boat did just fine in light air. We motored for 23 hours straight  in no air bringing our 29-2 back from Mackinac.  Average 6.3 knots in flat water. You wouldn't want to do that in a MK5 with the 1 cylinder inboard.

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I sailed a 27-5 for a few years and enjoyed it.  The interior is not great for cruising,  Goes upwind in a breeze like a demon.  We would sail boat for boat with a well sailed S2 7.9. Off wind...nope.  The cockpit is large and comfortable, considerably better than 29-2. They are truly different critters so chose according to your likely uses.  I would expect the 29-2 to have better resale value.  Good luck. 

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Thanks to everyone for their replies, this is a great community and am already benefiting from joining! I had to pass on the Mk V just wasn’t as set up as advertised and the costs kept mounting before I’d even get it back in the water ~20k + yikes! Just didn’t make sense for what I’d be getting for it.

I’m off tomorrow and headed to go see the 29 Mk II. I really appreciate all the information and will continue to check in here for any new insights. I’ve started leaning towards the 29 Mk II but there are also a number of 27 Mk III’s in the area that it wouldn’t hurt to take a peek at except for the fact that most have Atomic 4 Gas inboards and I’ve been advised from several others to stay away from. The argument for the Yanmar 2GM in the 29 Mk II seems pretty strong too. 

Thanks again to everyone and I’m looking forward to drawing on and learning from the wealth of experience this group has to offer... one day I’ll be able to contribute too!

I’ll keep the thread updated on the hunt and will more than likely have more questions to follow!

Cheers,

Colin

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Kids/family  will out grow the 27 quickly

shop in the 30 foot range 

c&c’s are great boats but in the used market there might be a lot of boats of other makes that might suit your needs as well as your budget 

tartan 30?

s2 7.9 lots of bang for the buck in 27 ft

it pays big to shop around 

a good running atomic 4 is nothing to be afraid of/welcome to the cult lol

 

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Might have a look at a Seafarer 29 or 30. Solid boats. I'm partial.

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I can't comment on the 27 vs the 29 specially, but I'm 3 years into a 30+ year old boat having spent 3 times what I paid for the boat initially in repairs and upkeep.  Labor of love for sure.  Additionally, the kid is 3 years older and wanting more friends to come about and the wife would like some more headroom.  So we're already looking for a newer, bigger boat.  I would find the best condition 29 you could and go with that.

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I have been sailing and racing my 27 Mk 3 on Lake Ontario for 15 years now and it is an excellent boat.  Mine is now 40 years old and holding up beautifully.  Do not let the Atomic IV put you off, it is a wonderfully simple and reliable engine.  With an electronic ignition and fuel pump from Moyer Marine, it will give you great service while being easy to understand and maintain.  In my 40+ years of sailing on C&C's with Atomic engines, I have only ever heard of one boat exploding from gas fumes, and that was because the skipper couldn't be bothered to run the blower after refueling mid-lake.

The 27 Mk 3 is vastly superior to the 27 Mk 5 for cruising purposes, and better built.  The Mk 5 was originally designed as a 26-ft MORC racer.  When it did not get any real traction in the marketplace as a 26-footer, it was re-labelled as the 27 Mk 5 to piggyback on the established reputation of the original C&C 27.  That said, if I were in your position, I think that I would choose the 29 Mk 2 over the 27.   The 29 offers more space, headroom and amenities.  With wheel steering, the cockpit of the 29 is easier to get around in, but you will have to deal with having a deeper draft, though.  In the lighter air conditions we usually experience on the lake, performance is pretty much even between my 27 and the local 29's, with the 29's having a slight edge, especially in lighter airs.

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I have, prior to getting my current boat, raced against both types.  I bought the next size up from the 29-2 (a 30-2), but deep down I should have bought the 27-5.  Nice boat, big enough, nimble.  If you need the room go to the 29-2, the rating is generous at best.  Also, take them out for a test sail. As I said, I'd get an outboard version of the 27-5 to remove an extra system worth of headaches and keep it simple... cheaper sails, etc. better for your retirement account.

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Great advice.

Spend $60 or $70,000 instead of $10 to $20000.

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We owned a 1984 29-2 for nine years, liked it a lot. Upsized to our 1984 35-3 twelve years ago. I would pick the 29-2 over the 27-V for family cruising. We had the tiller version of the 29-2, it makes an excellent singlehander in that configuration, but I would go for the wheel with a crowd on board.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Great advice.

Spend $60 or $70,000 instead of $10 to $20000.

Geeze, Sloop -  It's only money.

 

 

Especially when it's someone else's money.

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We bought a C&C 27 MkV for our Boat to Go program for our club. ( https://www.wvyc.ca/our-club/boat-sharing). 4 owners that were all members over the year and was involved with the program as a great idea. it's a huge success. Our fleet captain, that doesn't have a boat or enough seniority for moorage, uses it a lot with her young family. But it's almost too popular as she can't get a booking herself until mid-September. It has always been in the hunt for racing and did well. Great starter boat too for a family. I'd recommend the 27 anytime. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 7:06 AM, RobertNJ said:

Buy a J/32

Buy a trawler! Buy a 40' trimaran! Geez!

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