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She may not have the provenance of Pendragon, but Mad max was listed for sale last week and today the owner has dropped the asking price to $10,000 CANADIAN. https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/vancouver-mad-max-sailboat/6935695823.html 

She is in decent shape, new diesel installation.  Sail inventory not so new - but someone buy her before someone like Rimas does.  I'd hate to see her end up on Kits Beach after a storm - or any beach for that matter.

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2 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/vancouver-mad-max-sailboat/6935695823.html 

She is in decent shape, new diesel installation.  Sail inventory not so new - but someone buy her before someone like Rimas does.  I'd hate to see her end up on Kits Beach after a storm - or any beach for that matter.

At fiste readeng I lolled alle overe then reallised it coude happene againe.                                :)

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12 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

At fiste readeng I lolled alle overe then reallised it coude happene againe.                                :)

Yup.  CAD 10,000 = USD 7,600.  Getting close to Rimas range. 

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Looks to be in decent nik and have sailed on it a couple of times. But not much of a market, at any price, for old one tonners with runners and a spindly rig. I hope someone understands what it is and not for a cheap 40' boat. I've seen old one tonners and two tonners made into liveaboards etc. That can be a tragic end. 

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18 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Looks to be in decent nik and have sailed on it a couple of times. But not much of a market, at any price, for old one tonners with runners and a spindly rig. I hope someone understands what it is and not for a cheap 40' boat. I've seen old one tonners and two tonners made into liveaboards etc. That can be a tragic end. 

Exactly, and that is what I was getting at.  I'd hate to see a plywood doghouse nailed on to the deck to turn her into a "Pilot House" liveaboard.

I'd rather see her parted out and crushed (like Cadenza a couple of years back in Vic) than to suffer that kind of fate. 

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27 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Exactly, and that is what I was getting at.  I'd hate to see a plywood doghouse nailed on to the deck to turn her into a "Pilot House" liveaboard.

I'd rather see her parted out and crushed (like Cadenza a couple of years back in Vic) than to suffer that kind of fate. 

Do you mean a famous boat like "Locura"? 

Locura-4.jpg

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1 minute ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Do you mean a famous boat like "Locura"? 

Locura-4.jpg

Forgot about that one.  That one was actually so bad it became more comical than bad.  I mean the guy must have spend a fair amount of coin - and to end up with that:wacko:

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I just threw up in my mouth a little.

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6 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Forgot about that one.  That one was actually so bad it became more comical than bad.  I mean the guy must have spend a fair amount of coin - and to end up with that:wacko:

That's scary part. Somewhere in my collection a took a shot of the old Rogers 39 "Kelea" in Nannymo as a liveaboard too. I do hope they find a "good" home for Mad Max. But I'm not holding my breath.  

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Max is still capable of winning isn't he?

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5 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

That's scary part. Somewhere in my collection a took a shot of the old Rogers 39 "Kelea" in Nannymo as a liveaboard too. I do hope they find a "good" home for Mad Max. But I'm not holding my breath.  

I saw Kelea last December - fairly close to Tim's Dash.  Would never have recognized her - but the distinctive magenta hull colour made me certain it was Kelea.  IIRC, among other "improvements", 2x4s on edge were somehow affixed to the deck as inner toe rails - kind of a poor mans bulwarks I suppose.  Lots of other "improvements" but that was one that stood out the most.  Barely recognizable as the Kelea I knew - except for the hull colour.  I had wondered where she ended up - cause I hadn't seen her for many years. 

Even more surprising, i think she raced in SIN this year - so at least the boat appears to be actually sailed on occasion.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Max is still capable of winning isn't he?

For sure.  She was still winning when Micah had her just a couple of years ago.  Current owners bought her less than a year ago.  They had here out racing a couple of times this past winter but didn't do well.  I think the main problem was finding crew able to sail her.  I turned down an offer to sail on Max this winter because - to put it simply - she is above my pay grade.

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Around here draft is not a consideration.

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5 minutes ago, ziper1221 said:

What's the draft, like 7ft?

At least.  More likely around 7.5 ft.

But like SJB says - no one really gives a shit about draft in PNW - other than possibly not having enough.

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1 minute ago, 12 metre said:

At least.  More likely around 7.5 ft.

But like SJB says - no one really gives a shit about draft in PNW - other than possibly not having enough.

Eggsactly - with 15' tides you better know where the shallow bits are. And pretty rocky. Doing race committee we set in 600' at times

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20 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

At least.  More likely around 7.5 ft.

But like SJB says - no one really gives a shit about draft in PNW - other than possibly not having enough.

The usual phrase on my boat when seriously playing the beach is:  "What you see is what you hit". 

Except, of course, when there are those pesky, sticking-up rock things.

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

The usual phrase on my boat when seriously playing the beach is:  "What you see is what you hit". 

Except, of course, when there are those pesky, sticking-up rock things.

Which means you call for "water" you really need it. Put your pulpit almost into the trees for current and geo shifts to considerations. You play games with that? You will be tossed very quickly.  

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15 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Which means you call for "water" you really need it. Put your pulpit almost into the trees for current and geo shifts to considerations. You play games with that? You will be tossed very quickly.  

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post.  No, I do not play games with that.  People should call for water when they are uncomfortable, not when there's another inch they can still go in - in someone else's opinion.  

But when the driver asks what the depth is, getting the "What you see" call allows for clarity in the situation.  

 

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3 hours ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

Eggsactly - with 15' tides you better know where the shallow bits are. And pretty rocky. Doing race committee we set in 600' at times

Like Spanish Banks.

Been there, done that, against Max. :o

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Raced against Pacific Sundance today, similar vintage to Mad Max, immaculately maintained and presented, and raced nearly every week. I've raced on her a bit and it is a great time, if not particularly quick against the more modern 40s around here. 

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23 hours ago, 12 metre said:

I saw Kelea last December - fairly close to Tim's Dash.  Would never have recognized her - but the distinctive magenta hull colour made me certain it was Kelea.  IIRC, among other "improvements", 2x4s on edge were somehow affixed to the deck as inner toe rails - kind of a poor mans bulwarks I suppose.  Lots of other "improvements" but that was one that stood out the most.  Barely recognizable as the Kelea I knew - except for the hull colour.  I had wondered where she ended up - cause I hadn't seen her for many years. 

Even more surprising, i think she raced in SIN this year - so at least the boat appears to be actually sailed on occasion.

Found it. But ti's from 2015.

20150606_094014 (1280x960).jpg

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That qualifies for the Junk on the Trunk thread.

Why do clowns have to fuck up nice boats?

Can't they stick to ferro and the other crap out there?

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15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That qualifies for the Junk on the Trunk thread.

Why do clowns have to fuck up nice boats?

Can't they stick to ferro and the other crap out there?

They see them as a cheap 40' boat for a liveaboard SJB. Judging for prices for old warhorses, well beyond their prime, with no market except that you get this. These clowns have no idea what they are looking at. Having to deal with these (the boats and the buyers) it is a huge waste of time - just me on that. The sad end of a legacy. 

 

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On 7/26/2019 at 1:37 PM, 12 metre said:

At least.  More likely around 7.5 ft.

But like SJB says - no one really gives a shit about draft in PNW - other than possibly not having enough.

BTW 12 meter - I understand that editor/owner has cratered the SailingX website? 

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13 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

BTW 12 meter - I understand that editor/owner has cratered the SailingX website? 

KInd of figured that is what has happened.  I know he was looking for someone to buy the web-site about a year ago.  Guess no one stepped up.  I imagine it was kept running as long as possible until it came to pay up whatever annual fees he had for running the site.  Too bad.  Not sure how I am going to be able to catch up on latest local news/gossip/events because I'm not very active on the local scene these days, i.e. I only take in maybe a couple of events or series per year.

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8 hours ago, 12 metre said:
8 hours ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

BTW 12 meter - I understand that editor/owner has cratered the SailingX website? 

KInd of figured that is what has happened.  I know he was looking for someone to buy the web-site about a year ago.  Guess no one stepped up.  I imagine it was kept running as long as possible until it came to pay up whatever annual fees he had for running the site.  Too bad.  Not sure how I am going to be able to catch up on latest local news/gossip/events because I'm not very active on the local scene these days, i.e. I only take in maybe a couple of events or series per year.

Fuck!  I gotte the twqellve dolleres or whatevere it tackes,,,,,,,,,,,        :)             

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On 7/27/2019 at 2:25 AM, 12 metre said:

Exactly, and that is what I was getting at.  I'd hate to see a plywood doghouse nailed on to the deck to turn her into a "Pilot House" liveaboard.

I'd rather see her parted out and crushed (like Cadenza a couple of years back in Vic) than to suffer that kind of fate. 

But if the boat has an outdated rig, appendages and hull... there's fk all to part out. Is it really a tragedy to see it get another life? A 40 year old boat getting to live another 20 years is a darn sight better than a 40 year old boat rotting away on a mooring or being crushed. Hard top it, chop the rig down, at least the hull gets another life.

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9 hours ago, darth reapius said:

But if the boat has an outdated rig, appendages and hull... there's fk all to part out. Is it really a tragedy to see it get another life? A 40 year old boat getting to live another 20 years is a darn sight better than a 40 year old boat rotting away on a mooring or being crushed. Hard top it, chop the rig down, at least the hull gets another life.

Parting out wise - it had a new diesel/saildrive installed within the last couple of years.  Some deck hardware possibly.  Couple thousand for the lead keel.

I would agree though that if someone wants to hard top it and chop the rig - AND they use it as a sailing vessel of some sort for the next twenty years as the owners of Kelea appear to be doing - fine (other than aesthetics-wise).

The problem is that around here a lot of good sized boats are bought for a song by people who know nothing about boats other than it would make a roof over their head (see Maxx's post above).  The boat ends up uninsured and anchored off Kits Beach with insufficient or very worn ground tackle.  The first westerly storm and away she goes ending up on the rocks somewhere along Kits Point or Sunset Beach.  Every decent storm ends up with several (I've seen up to a half dozen) boats up on the rocks.

If the boat is uninsured, the owner then typically can't be tracked down and won't come forward - so the taxpayer ends up footing the bill to have her towed away and crushed anyway.

So selling to this type of owner typically only defers crushing it by maybe a year at best.  And increases the odds of environmental damage due to fuel and waste spillage.  At least when a boat is properly crushed all of that stuff is disposed of properly.

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On 7/26/2019 at 4:58 PM, See Level said:

Like Spanish Banks.

Been there, done that, against Max. :o

That's was so fun. I was tactician standing on the bow in a light wind regatta, telling the skipper to NOT look at her depth sounder and get ready to turn, but NOT till I say!

Banged in so close to the beach a guy walking his dog jumped when he looked up, thought we were going to run him over. 

Skipper and I had a certain level of trust going at that point, and u could see the ledge plain as day. 

 

Mad Max was in our class that day. We were ahead at that point. But they eventually got as, as per usual. 

We got way ahead of him on a southern straights once and thought they took a flyer. Nice and dark and crew were discussing if Mad Max had retired and we didn't hear the call when they passed us. !

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Maxx and SJB may be familiar with this boat - it looks like a very beat up Distant Drummer is for sale on Saltspring https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/salt-spring-island-37-cold-molded/6945983214.html  This was a 37 ft cold moulded Peterson beauty built by Jespersen back in the late 70s.  Such a shame.  Below is an old file photo and a current one.

Drummer 4.jpg

Drummer 5.jpg

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That was for sale a while ago but no-one could get together with the vendor.

Now the price is lower so maybe.....

Hope someone good gets it and puts it in a shed for restoration - it is a very special boat.

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She may not be that bad - exterior is pretty weatherbeaten, but interior still looks very nice.  Gonna be a tough sell being an IOR woody with non ST winches and such and probably a very tired diesel.

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If it was a 1/2 Tonner I would probably already own it but it's a pretty big boat - just varnishing the hull will be a monster job. How long does it take to put 10 or 12 coats on a hull that size. :D

Probably needs a new teak deck too.

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4 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

If it was a 1/2 Tonner I would probably already own it but it's a pretty big boat - just varnishing the hull will be a monster job. How long does it take to put 10 or 12 coats on a hull that size. :D

Probably needs a new teak deck too.

To be honest I thought about looking into her when I saw the ad this morning - for about 5 minutes.  Then gave my head a shake when I realized how much work she will require to repair, maintain, and sail.  Still - such a beautiful boat.

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Most commenting here are too smart, too poor or too old to go around saving boats from their inevitable fates. 

 

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You're new around boats, aren't you.

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1 hour ago, toad said:

Most commenting here are too smart, too poor or too old to go around saving boats from their inevitable fates.

Who are you calling poor?

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On 7/30/2019 at 11:44 PM, 12 metre said:

Maxx and SJB may be familiar with this boat - it looks like a very beat up Distant Drummer is for sale on Saltspring https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/boa/d/salt-spring-island-37-cold-molded/6945983214.html  This was a 37 ft cold moulded Peterson beauty built by Jespersen back in the late 70s.  Such a shame.  Below is an old file photo and a current one.

Drummer 4.jpg

Drummer 5.jpg

Greg Oliver's Distant Drummer. A beautiful boat on the day. Seeing it abused like that is phuquing tragic. Greg passed away from cancer (I think) and Paul Sheild & I went to the memorial. His wife, Judi, was a sweetheart and tried to keep it up the best she could. She was fun and we called her the "cleaning lady" as she did detailing and everyone loved her and her work. Always there for the Sidney boat show and then it was moved to Victoria. I didn't go after that and I got sick myself so haven't seen her since. The whole thing is sad. Time to pick up the phone and call Paul I guess. But I'm not sure I want to know.   

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One thing that bothered me with Max in Vancouver that I know it had a lot of lead pigs for ballast in the bilges. Like, I'm going to say, 1200 lbs.? Being involved with the boat when the Vogel's had the boat I knew the ballast was there. Most of it anyway but I don't know if it was still there. It seems it was taken out as it was wickedly fast in light air. Not like it was before. But the same PHRF number forever. Things that make you go.........hmmm....... 

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1 hour ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

One thing that bothered me with Max in Vancouver that I know it had a lot of lead pigs for ballast in the bilges. Like, I'm going to say, 1200 lbs.? Being involved with the boat when the Vogel's had the boat I knew the ballast was there. Most of it anyway but I don't know if it was still there. It seems it was taken out as it was wickedly fast in light air. Not like it was before. But the same PHRF number forever. Things that make you go.........hmmm....... 

My guess is you are correct.  IIRC, when Max first came to Van, she didn't  seem to me to be all that fast in our typical conditions which is pretty common for boats that come to PNW that were designed for the AC or New Zealand conditions.  She seemed to have a much bigger main and relatively small headsail compared to even the other local Davidson 1Tons like Pendragon III(?) and Aquila.

It seemed to me Pendoggie and especially Dauntless had an edge in light air (not to mention all the MH Petersons from that era), but Max seemed to pick up over the years.  I had no involvement in the program, i just assumed some SA was added to Max since locally the "One Tons" didn't have to race level.  By that I mean the fleet became a mix of post 1983 1Tons and pre 1983 2Tons that were in a rough band of 30.5 to 32.0

But yeah, her light air performance did seem to improve over time.

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23 hours ago, 12 metre said:

My guess is you are correct.  IIRC, when Max first came to Van, she didn't  seem to me to be all that fast in our typical conditions which is pretty common for boats that come to PNW that were designed for the AC or New Zealand conditions.  She seemed to have a much bigger main and relatively small headsail compared to even the other local Davidson 1Tons like Pendragon III(?) and Aquila.

It seemed to me Pendoggie and especially Dauntless had an edge in light air (not to mention all the MH Petersons from that era), but Max seemed to pick up over the years.  I had no involvement in the program, i just assumed some SA was added to Max since locally the "One Tons" didn't have to race level.  By that I mean the fleet became a mix of post 1983 1Tons and pre 1983 2Tons that were in a rough band of 30.5 to 32.0

But yeah, her light air performance did seem to improve over time.

That's what I mean - huh? Racing a more recent modern race boat in the same length range and rounding Halibut Bank buoy in super light air and I thought there was a boat coming up on the horizon and a dark colour. It kept coming when most of the fleet had almost parked. I could then make out it was Max. Still coming. Thought they were going to pass us at the mark but we got past them - finally. They stopped at the rounding as their momentum was gone. Still, I thought: WTF? They never did that before. I'm curious if they took the lead out. Under PHRF rules you are supposed to declare a change like that. Like Argosy that the owner had lengthed the boom, put 18" on the transom, oversize main of course, oversize genoa and kite too. Not declaring any of it. But did get caught. But that's what you expect for a $50 dollar a year rating system.   

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66 pigs of lead originally from memory - I lifted them in there

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17 minutes ago, wal' said:

66 pigs of lead originally from memory - I lifted them in there

Thanks for that mate. I knew they were in the boat originally. Now? I wonder.

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I can help on this topic, although I find baseless speculation distasteful. The lead was removed for interior work and replaced. I know because I screwed the retaining straps on it. Anyone with casual interest could go look under the floorboards. 

There is a very simple explanation for our improvement in light air; the Bukh was removed along with the draggy strut and non folding prop. We mounted an outboard for a while until we decided it wasn't safe enough. The saildrive was installed after that. An asymmetrical kite was also part of the improved downwind speed. 

Perhaps you folks shoud focus on becoming better sailors and stop guessing about the success of others

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Any of the old IOR cert's will state the total weight, individual wts, and location of any lead in situ when measured.

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