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Mid Size Trucks

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Looking for a mid-size truck. This is a growing and happy segment of the motor trade with a lot to choose from, so buying one isn't easy. Basically they all tow more or less the same load, beds are all 5 ft with similar load capacity, off road capabilities are all enough for me and prices are all similar (40k-43k) except the jeep gladiator which is a lot more ($56-$60k, ouch), so struggling to make a buying decision. I've driven them all, and all are OK, none are spectacular, but then again they are trucks, so what can you expect. I'm down to 3 options 1) Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro, 2) Ford Ranger FX4 Lauriat and 3) Chevy ZR2 (maybe a Bison version).

Any owners/experts/bar stool Qb's who have ownership experience or options welcome to chime in....

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Ridgeline

 

 

.... no question

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My 2008 Tacoma is still running, but needed a new tranny last year and the AC has a persistent leak that has stymied a few repairers.

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Toyota ... do you really need the TDR Pro?  That is a big premium for the badging... Tacoma 4WD and upgrade with after market if you need the extreme off road features 

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As much as I hate to say it.........the latest Ridgeline is getting pretty good reviews. On the up side it no longer looks so much like a tennis shoe abortion but more like a.....truck.

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13 minutes ago, BravoBravo said:

Toyota ... do you really need the TDR Pro?  That is a big premium for the badging... Tacoma 4WD and upgrade with after market if you need the extreme off road features 

probably not, but the local dealer has 5 and the 2020 upgrade is coming in few months so he's seriously willing to deal...

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45 minutes ago, wal' said:

Ridgeline

 

 

.... no question

Absolutely

It's a given

All the cool kids are getting one

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5' bed? What's that good for, taking 4 garbage cans to the dump?

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22 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

5' bed? What's that good for, taking 4 garbage cans to the dump?

This. Gotta put the tailgate down just to bring sheet goods home!

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I've never understood the appeal of a mid-size truck. Nearly the price of a full size with half the utility.

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

I've never understood the appeal of a mid-size truck. Nearly the price of a full size with half the utility.

I think you pay more for a midsize.  They don't get the discounts that full size pick ups do, do they.  I'm pretty sure I couldn't have bought a new mid for what I paid for my ram...ok it's a dodge but still..:-)

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I have the 5’7 bed crew cab. It fits in the garage, and no you don’t have to drop the tailgate for a sheet of ply. The 2019 is calling my name...

5F16D065-DE23-491E-9F26-77B582E22EC2.thumb.jpeg.b857aae04d177e55318161874e240af4.jpeg

Too bad these won’t tow...

622B36BF-4C84-41B9-B151-E64A4F182A54.thumb.jpeg.9ecb07f7d426148ef05838b9aefdc20b.jpeg

 

 

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3 hours ago, IStream said:

I've never understood the appeal of a mid-size truck. Nearly the price of a full size with half the utility.

You're mostly right, I have a midsize, the Mitsubishi variant of the Dodge Dakota, drinks gas like a full size, only tows about 4k lbs., but the bed is nearly full sized, about 6.5 feet long, swallows sheets of wood and gypsum like a champ.

The advantage of the midsized trucks is that the American ones are pretty cheap in the used markets. I got mine for $7k, then it got pelted by hail about a year after I got it, and suddenly it was a half-off truck.

Thank you, hail!

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....... I WAS joking..........

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daily driver is a 2006 Nissan Frontier 4-door 6-speed manual.  no complaints.

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I've got a 2016 Tacoma TRD Off-Road. It's not as comfortable nor as refined as the Ford or Chevy, but it's hasn't missed a beat reliability-wise. I think it comes down to what you want more. A new, but basically 20 year-old truck that is reliable (Tacoma), or a more modern design with better amenities. If you decide you want the latter then get a 2019 RAM, it's the most plush and best driving truck (I've driven them all) and it doesn't really feel that much bigger behind the wheel than a midsize.

To me, the ZR2 and Ranger are not appealing, they don't offer the reliability of a Tacoma, nor the capability or comfort of other American trucks at a similar selling price. Plus, they're also old. The Ranger platform is already approximately 10 years old... 

2021730988_tacolbl.thumb.JPG.5bdc406862c6bc50971623826f49f9d1.JPG

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I'd sooner buy an ICE truck and spend the remaining $50K I would've spent on the Rivian on a 15KW solar installation. 

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15 minutes ago, IStream said:

I'd sooner buy an ICE truck and spend the remaining $50K I would've spent on the Rivian on a 15KW solar installation. 

I convinced myself the next vehicle I buy would be electric, and I want a new truck

I plopped down $1K to get in line

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10 hours ago, chester said:

I think you pay more for a midsize.  They don't get the discounts that full size pick ups do, do they.  I'm pretty sure I couldn't have bought a new mid for what I paid for my ram...ok it's a dodge but still..:-)

Hey, I like my Prairie Schooner and it's a Ram. Gets 21 on the highway. The stereo is lacking and my drivers seat is about worn out but it starts and rolls.

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We checked out all the midsize trucks and NONE of the backseats can sit and adult and they ended up costing more than my 2019 crew-cab Silverado which at 19' still fits in a garage and in the first 1000 miles is getting 19.5 MPG local and about 24 highway

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5 hours ago, tybee said:

daily driver is a 2006 Nissan Frontier 4-door 6-speed manual.  no complaints.

i wouldn't buy anything Nissan right now... wait till they go out of business first..

well back to op... depends on how fast you need it

Toyota Tacoma  --  it's about the same size as my 2002 tundra, but you don't get a v-8

Ford Ranger -   ford builds trucks, -nuff said there

if you can wait , I think there are a couple of ford and toyota mid sizers coming out in the near future..    I want to see what the new 2 door bronco looks like.

 

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11 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

Hey, I like my Prairie Schooner and it's a Ram. Gets 21 on the highway. The stereo is lacking and my drivers seat is about worn out but it starts and rolls.

:D, i like mine plenty too...its a 1500, 6 cyl (!), that does everything i ask it to.  the Rams ride great, i upgraded the stereo (pioneer head, focal speakers, more power) so it sounds good and it's a tradesman so no fancy stuff to wear out and i'm pretty sure i couldn't have gotten any truck, mid size included, for less money than i paid for it.

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I had a 2001 extended cab 1/2 ton Silverado with a full sized bed that I liked quite a bit. Drove the heck out of it till I gave it (like every car I've ever owned) to one of my kids (who like most of the cars I gave them....they wrecked...........). It was a good truck.

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I've only owned two pickups (ok, three if I count the '52 Chevy I had in high school) and both were full size half tons with  eight foot beds. They were (are) used to haul and tow things, not as  daily drivers. I understand desiring a compact or medium sized trucks but the capabilities are really compromised. The standard cab on my Tundra actually has more room behind the seats than the extended cab with the seats. The full-size trucks also often come standard with a complete tow package with hitch, lighting harness, electric brake circuit, and transmission cooler. When I originally looked at a Tacoma the tow package was an expensive dealer add on. Hopefully the tow package is now a factory standard or option on the midsize. When comparing towing capabilities. you still don't have the extra wheelbase or brakes. It still all depends upon the intended use of the vehicle.

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Recently paid 7k for an .02 Nissan Frontier with 115k on the clock.  6 foot bed with liner, extra cab, 3.3 liter V6, 5 speed 4x4.  Added Kenwood ICE with backup camera and bluetooth, hitch receiver, and it's great to drive, but not so good on the fuel consumption.  In hindsight, I should have got one with electric winows and cruise control, but I really like the analog, manual HVAC controls.  After I bought it, my mechanic put it up in the air and said it easily had a minimum of 2 grand in new parts underneath, so rock solid.

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2 hours ago, austin1972 said:

Hey, I like my Prairie Schooner and it's a Ram. Gets 21 on the highway. The stereo is lacking and my drivers seat is about worn out but it starts and rolls.

As you well know, if you've got less than 300k on that Cummins you're still just breaking her in no matter what the body and interior look like.

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44 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Recently paid 7k for an .02 Nissan Frontier with 115k on the clock.  6 foot bed with liner, extra cab, 3.3 liter V6, 5 speed 4x4.  Added Kenwood ICE with backup camera and bluetooth, hitch receiver, and it's great to drive, but not so good on the fuel consumption.  In hindsight, I should have got one with electric winows and cruise control, but I really like the analog, manual HVAC controls.  After I bought it, my mechanic put it up in the air and said it easily had a minimum of 2 grand in new parts underneath, so rock solid.

You got a killer deal, your baby sounds awesome. The six foot bed with the extra cab is my favorite pickup. It's still short enough to maneuver into parking spots easily, but the bed is big enough for most stuff, and I can lock my more expensive tools in the extended cab portion without using up part of my bed with a locking toolbox.

Mine is RWD though, it's good for 99% of the work I do, but that 1% of the time when I need that extra traction means I still have to keep my 4WD Isuzu. I love the Frontier, it's as tough as the Tacoma but without the high price.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

You got a killer deal, your baby sounds awesome. The six foot bed with the extra cab is my favorite pickup. It's still short enough to maneuver into parking spots easily, but the bed is big enough for most stuff, and I can lock my more expensive tools in the extended cab portion without using up part of my bed with a locking toolbox.

Mine is RWD though, it's good for 99% of the work I do, but that 1% of the time when I need that extra traction means I still have to keep my 4WD Isuzu. I love the Frontier, it's as tough as the Tacoma but without the high price.

 

I thought it was a fair deal, but 7 grand for a 17 year old truck with 115k???  I found that the only cheap used trucks are Ford Rangers, and they are not in the same league.

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59 minutes ago, cyclone said:

I've only owned two pickups (ok, three if I count the '52 Chevy I had in high school) and both were full size half tons with  eight foot beds. They were (are) used to haul and tow things, not as  daily drivers. I understand desiring a compact or medium sized trucks but the capabilities are really compromised. The standard cab on my Tundra actually has more room behind the seats than the extended cab with the seats. The full-size trucks also often come standard with a complete tow package with hitch, lighting harness, electric brake circuit, and transmission cooler. When I originally looked at a Tacoma the tow package was an expensive dealer add on. Hopefully the tow package is now a factory standard or option on the midsize. When comparing towing capabilities. you still don't have the extra wheelbase or brakes. It still all depends upon the intended use of the vehicle.

The really bitching truck to have if you tow is one with a manual gearbox. I can tow most anything with my manual Isuzu, no transmission cooler needed. But they're becoming an endangered species, I think only Ram even offers a manual gearbox full sized truck anymore, with the Tradesman.

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2 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I thought it was a fair deal, but 7 grand for a 17 year old truck with 115k???  I found that the only cheap used trucks are Ford Rangers, and they are not in the same league.

That same truck out West would sell for a lot more. People on the East Coast get inexplicably cheap prices on used trucks. I don't know why.

I don't want to bad mouth Ford trucks, some people really love them, I'm not one of them though.

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I have a 2012 Long Bed TRD Sport Tacoma.  Purchased with 75k miles on the clock in 2015.  I have 117k miles now.  It rocks.  I tow my Capri 25 no problem.  The long bed adds a shit ton of utility and a nice long wheelbase for towing.  If I were to replace it however, I would be getting a Duramax Colorado purely for the motor.  But my Taco has plenty of life in it.

The ZR2 loses some capability in the towing and payload numbers because of the off-road suspension. But if it's an off roader you want, I can't think of a better new truck.  

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43 minutes ago, IStream said:

As you well know, if you've got less than 300k on that Cummins you're still just breaking her in no matter what the body and interior look like.

Yeah, it's dropped a water pump but that was 2 bolts and $150 or so for the pump and I replaced the belt since I was in there anyhow. Just that and fuel filters.

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3 hours ago, chester said:

:D, i like mine plenty too...its a 1500, 6 cyl (!), that does everything i ask it to.  the Rams ride great, i upgraded the stereo (pioneer head, focal speakers, more power) so it sounds good and it's a tradesman so no fancy stuff to wear out and i'm pretty sure i couldn't have gotten any truck, mid size included, for less money than i paid for it.

The straight-6 engine is the only naturally balanced engine other than the V-12. It's the most popular engine in most industrial applications like diesel tractors, they can scale it as large as they want want without screwing around with counter-balance. I think it's a better engine than the V-8, but it's longer, so it's not so popular in consumer vehicles anymore.

My old man and I once rebuilt a straight six in an old Chevy Camaro, he said it looked exactly like a smaller version of the straight six in his WWII armored car, even the same bolt pattern. When something works, don't fix it, right?

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All my favorite engines have been in-line sixes. 1990's-2000's BMWs, Datsun's 240/260/280Z cars, Cummins B series. 

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14 minutes ago, mikewof said:

That same truck out West would sell for a lot more. People on the East Coast get inexplicably cheap prices on used trucks. I don't know why.

I don't want to bad mouth Ford trucks, some people really love them, I'm not one of them though.

 

Full size Ford trucks are still THE TOP SELLING VEHICLE, last time I checked, but the Rangers are small and look flimsy, but I have not driven one, so that's an uneducated opinion.

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11 minutes ago, mikewof said:

The straight-6 engine is the only naturally balanced engine other than the V-12. It's the most popular engine in most industrial applications like diesel tractors, they can scale it as large as they want want without screwing around with counter-balance. I think it's a better engine than the V-8, but it's longer, so it's not so popular in consumer vehicles anymore.

My old man and I once rebuilt a straight six in an old Chevy Camaro, he said it looked exactly like a smaller version of the straight six in his WWII armored car, even the same bolt pattern. When something works, don't fix it, right?

My Cummins is tall as shit which makes it a bit of a bitch to work on, and I have long arms.

My BMW straight 6 (The Shoe) was turbine smooth. Too bad the ex totalled it.

I love straight 6 motors.

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12 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Those Z-cars screamed with those I-6 engines. They're excellent engines, supposedly making a comeback,  https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/04/19/why-inline-6-is-making-a-comeback

I'm sure it'll be short-lived but it's good to see the ICE head into its twilight years in I6 form.

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6 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

My Cummins is tall as shit which makes it a bit of a bitch to work on, and I have long arms.

My BMW straight 6 (The Shoe) was turbine smooth. Too bad the ex totalled it.

I love straight 6 motors.

I change my Cummins oil filter from below using a cap wrench on a 3' socket extension. It's just barely long enough...

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39 minutes ago, mikewof said:

The straight-6 engine is the only naturally balanced engine other than the V-12. It's the most popular engine in most industrial applications like diesel tractors, they can scale it as large as they want want without screwing around with counter-balance. I think it's a better engine than the V-8, but it's longer, so it's not so popular in consumer vehicles anymore.

My old man and I once rebuilt a straight six in an old Chevy Camaro, he said it looked exactly like a smaller version of the straight six in his WWII armored car, even the same bolt pattern. When something works, don't fix it, right?

the modern ram 6 is a V, the pentastar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Pentastar_engine, which has powered 20 different vehicles...everything from compact cars to panel vans.  it's actually a very nice mil, quiet, smooth, gets decent mileage and has enough power to handle hiway driving.  isn't rated to pull too much in the Ram..5000lbs maybe but that works for me.  i have a 1300 lb popup camper and it handles that well enough...i added air bags though.

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So, this was 2009? or so, anyway.... a close relative wanted to replace his Ranger Sporttrac with another one - he wound up with an extended cab Raptor for 2 grand more, gets almost the same mileage and earlier this year in our drive across Texas and NM is still rock solid, couldn't believe how smooth it drove and still got 18 averaging 80 or so.  Comfortable and quiet, never been in a mid size with any of those qualities.  YMMV.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

I'm sure it'll be short-lived but it's good to see the ICE head into its twilight years in I6 form.

The ICE is going to be around for another fifty to a hundred years. It will be very small, less than 250CC or so, and it will be entirely RPM-limited to only run in its ideal time-temp-turbulence range. It's only purpose will be to recharge the batteries and capacitors in EVs. It might even be in I6. It will be lightweight, perhaps even a sleeved polymer block.

But as it stands in 2019, there is nothing on the horizon in batteries, capacitors or fuel cells for the next 50 years at least which can even hope to touch the energy storage density of liquid fuels. When your EV runs low on charge while you're away from your charging port, that little gas motor, discretely hidden somewhere under the bonnet, will quietly switch on and keep everything running along. It will have no more than five gallon tank, and gasoline will cost some $15/gallon in an unvented tank. It will be a necessary thing anytime you need to drive for more than half the day.

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Just saw a Chevy "Avalanche" in the parking lot at Roger Dunn. Every time I see one of those I think.....WTF??!! I swear it had a 4 foot bed....at best......

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1 minute ago, Point Break said:

Just saw a Chevy "Avalanche" in the parking lot at Roger Dunn. Every time I see one of those I think.....WTF??!! I swear it had a 4 foot bed....at best......

and ugly, so, so ugly

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

The ICE is going to be around for another fifty to a hundred years. It will be very small, less than 250CC or so, and it will be entirely RPM-limited to only run in its ideal time-temp-turbulence range. It's only purpose will be to recharge the batteries and capacitors in EVs. It might even be in I6. It will be lightweight, perhaps even a sleeved polymer block.

But as it stands in 2019, there is nothing on the horizon in batteries, capacitors or fuel cells for the next 50 years at least which can even hope to touch the energy storage density of liquid fuels. When your EV runs low on charge while you're away from your charging port, that little gas motor, discretely hidden somewhere under the bonnet, will quietly switch on and keep everything running along. It will have no more than five gallon tank, and gasoline will cost some $15/gallon in an unvented tank. It will be a necessary thing anytime you need to drive for more than half the day.

As I said, twilight years.

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3 hours ago, IStream said:

I change my Cummins oil filter from below using a cap wrench on a 3' socket extension. It's just barely long enough...

Fortunately, I have a buddy with a brake/custom exhaust business so I have access to a shitload of tools and a lift. It only costs me beer to use. I can't imagine what a synthetic oil change would cost at the store. It's $90 doing it myself. Brakes aren't cheap either and I'm friends with the head of the parts dept. at the local CDJR dealer and get those at dealer cost. I'm on my 4th set (brand new!). Those f'ers are heavy.

Fuel filter is $19 for OEM. All it takes is 1 shitty tank of fuel to foul them.

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27 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

True. Greever has a Colorado. I like it a lot.

the new one?  yeah they're sharp and you can get a diesel too!

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5 minutes ago, chester said:

the new one?  yeah they're sharp and you can get a diesel too!

Yeah, it's not a diesel though. I can't even tell when it's running.

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1 hour ago, austin1972 said:

Fortunately, I have a buddy with a brake/custom exhaust business so I have access to a shitload of tools and a lift. It only costs me beer to use. I can't imagine what a synthetic oil change would cost at the store. It's $90 doing it myself. Brakes aren't cheap either and I'm friends with the head of the parts dept. at the local CDJR dealer and get those at dealer cost. I'm on my 4th set (brand new!). Those f'ers are heavy.

Fuel filter is $19 for OEM. All it takes is 1 shitty tank of fuel to foul them.

Yeah, a DYI oil change is about $110 for me (3 gals of synthetic oil + filter).

I put a secondary 2 micron Donaldson fuel filter plus differential pressure gauge on mine. No such thing as too clean and it's cheap insurance for the injectors. I also run a tank of biodiesel through her every summer to help dissolve any crud in the lines. 

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

 I also run a tank of biodiesel through her every summer to help dissolve any crud in the lines. 

Don't do straight bio if it's a common rail. The high pressure will make the fuel polymerize. Here, all #2 is 10% bio.

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4 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

Don't do straight bio if it's a common rail. The high pressure will make the fuel polymerize. Here, all #2 is 10% bio.

Yeah but you live in corn country.

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11 minutes ago, austin1972 said:

Don't do straight bio if it's a common rail. The high pressure will make the fuel polymerize. Here, all #2 is 10% bio.

I've never heard that. I've been doing this for about 5 years without any apparent problem. I'll look into it further.

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1 minute ago, chester said:

Not mid size, nice truck, wants antique/collector money!

I hadn’t thought of them as nice trucks.   I remember them as old beaters from the OPEC days, or converted rusty trailers after the engine smoked.   

7D6909DD-10C9-48C0-892F-4998C95E0523.jpeg

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Nice in the "wow, a forty year old truck with low miles and in good nick" nice. The add puts the price $9000 above average! :-)

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22 hours ago, chum said:

 

I have the 5’7 bed crew cab. It fits in the garage, and no you don’t have to drop the tailgate for a sheet of ply. The 2019 is calling my name...

Too bad these won’t tow...

622B36BF-4C84-41B9-B151-E64A4F182A54.thumb.jpeg.9ecb07f7d426148ef05838b9aefdc20b.jpeg

 

I thought they could be bought from the factory set up to tow 8000+ lbs?  Seems plenty for essentially a Jeep.

How much weight do you really want to tow with only 2 rear wheels in a light vehicle with a V6? 

Yes I know some pickups with big diesels go all the way to 20k lbs.  I wouldn't be thrilled about a 20k load behind a pickup with 2 rear wheels.  Others may be ok... just not me.  I've driven across the rockies more than a few times towing stuff.  No thanks.

 

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9 hours ago, IStream said:

As I said, twilight years.

It's true, but I hate to think of gasoline going away. Even now, with all these self-driving computer cars, gasoline still smells like the smell of the future.

If we burn it right, we might be able to make gasoline-powered rockets, all we need is very carefully refined gasoline to do it, with super-consistent chemistry. Maybe that will be the future of gasoline refining once the industry can sell it for $15/gallon rather than $3/gallon.

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4 hours ago, Windward said:

 

Looks like 7,650#, you’re right. Hmmmm....

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6 hours ago, chum said:

Looks like 7,650#, you’re right. Hmmmm....

Bigger Hmmm is the price.   Yowzers.  FiatChrysler must think they will be popular 

I’d wait a few years to see how they stick.  

I don’t think the top drops all the way back either.   I’ve only seen them folded back and sitting proudly on the top.  I could be wrong, haven’t really seen one without a hard top.  Dealer here had two and they seem to have disappeared 

So many things to like, and in typical fashion hate at the same time.  

One thing I really like about Jeeps is the aftermarket.   They are a lot like Lego,  you can customize so many more details relatively affordability to make it what you want.  

Woodie will be along any second to rave about his Jeep fetish, so we should drift back to pickups with no further ado. 

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