New Hugo Boss Spotted

[Fiji Bitter 1,440]

4 hours ago, SSolo said:

more info from HB... featuring eldest son Peter 
https://sailinganarchy.com/2019/10/21/the-people/

Nice unpretentious video, featuring my old mate Jason.

BTW Solo, you have every right to be a proud father, but your eldest son might get a little embarrassed if you keep telling us.

Is he staying with the team, or moving on to a new project? And we know they only had the VG in mind, but has he thought about what would be involved in converting it for the TOR. Or maybe I should ask Jason, he knows, and would probably have to do the hard work.

 

[Fiji Bitter 1,440]

Now on YouTube too:

(for the Faithbook haters...)

[pilot 25]

A new virtual tour is added into hub:

https://www.alexthomsonracing.com/the-hub/internal-360-tour/

[mad 3,712]

22 hours ago, Chimp too said:

I see they have gone back to foam core in the slamming area. 

Good old fashioned Airex or something more advanced? 

[trimfast 71]

Living quarters? More like jail cell.

[yl75 1,015]

I find the nav station position a bit awkward, next to the fresh air, but like stuck in a corner, although he will spend a lot of time there I guess.

Wouldn't have been better in the cockpit area ?

[JonRowe 673]

31 minutes ago, yl75 said:

I find the nav station position a bit awkward, next to the fresh air, but like stuck in a corner, although he will spend a lot of time there I guess.

Wouldn't have been better in the cockpit area ?

Cockpit area is designed for trimming, its not setup for sitting / "bean bag" style sleep / wedging yourself... Where as the sides of that area are. You want to be able to wedge yourself in securely to use the nav station? 

[Miffy 2,125]

The cockpit with control lines channeling will also likely to become a little wet even if it is nicely drained. While it’ll likely be a very dry boat, getting sails out, etc via that area probably means everything installed there has to be robust and prob not where you want your however IpX rated PC to be. 

[DickDastardly 227]

2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Cockpit area is designed for trimming, its not setup for sitting / "bean bag" style sleep / wedging yourself... Where as the sides of that area are. You want to be able to wedge yourself in securely to use the nav station? 

I just wonder what the route out of the boat is when it's inverted.  I believe exit via the transom hatch is mandatory so I assume there's some route out of the cockpit to that.

[ctutmark 233]

40 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

I just wonder what the route out of the boat is when it's inverted.  I believe exit via the transom hatch is mandatory so I assume there's some route out of the cockpit to that.

In the "living space" there are a couple of hatches leading aft

[yl75 1,015]

7 hours ago, Miffy said:

The cockpit with control lines channeling will also likely to become a little wet even if it is nicely drained. While it’ll likely be a very dry boat, getting sails out, etc via that area probably means everything installed there has to be robust and prob not where you want your however IpX rated PC to be. 

But it seems to me that the sails will never be in the cockpit area, more in the "living quarters", maybe going on the side of the cockpit area, behind those longitudinal bulkheads (right below the roof sides), so the living area will probably be quite wet as well.

[SSolo 149]

On 10/21/2019 at 11:36 PM, Fiji Bitter said:

Nice unpretentious video, featuring my old mate Jason.

BTW Solo, you have every right to be a proud father, but your eldest son might get a little embarrassed if you keep telling us.

Is he staying with the team, or moving on to a new project? And we know they only had the VG in mind, but has he thought about what would be involved in converting it for the TOR. Or maybe I should ask Jason, he knows, and would probably have to do the hard work.

 

i embarrass him enough already with my own sailing antics....... we are very proud of both our sons (other is a dentist)

However, they just haven't agreed to the 'grand plan' by their mum and me to sail off cruising (and racing) into the sunset - one son to design and build the boat, the other son to pay for it  :-)

best laid plans...........

[JonRowe 673]

8 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

I just wonder what the route out of the boat is when it's inverted.  I believe exit via the transom hatch is mandatory so I assume there's some route out of the cockpit to that.

Theres two hatches next to the main hatch too

[Snowden 285]

10 hours ago, Miffy said:

getting sails out, etc

Wasn't clear to me where sails were stored, perhaps there is a separate compartment further forwards with a deck hatch?

Nice short distance to lug them (unless he's stacking one on the back for weight).

[Laurent 1,574]

6 hours ago, yl75 said:

But it seems to me that the sails will never be in the cockpit area, more in the "living quarters", maybe going on the side of the cockpit area, behind those longitudinal bulkheads (right below the roof sides), so the living area will probably be quite wet as well.

I agree with you that it seems to be the right place for the stored headsails:

- below deck, to not lose all the hard work done on the aerodynamics

- as far away as possible from the centerline of the boat

- as far aft as possible (or at least to have the option to drag them as far aft as possible... or is it as necessary on foilers as it was on previous generations???)

 

But then...

How do you get them out from below deck to the foredeck?

And how do you move them from one side to the other when you change tack???

 

Looking at the pictures, I could not figure that one out...

[JonRowe 673]

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

How do you get them out from below deck to the foredeck?

Drag them forwards then halyard hoist out the hatch like normal.

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

And how do you move them from one side to the other when you change tack???

Mechanical advantage, handy billy or slides etc

[canstead 20]

Anyone seen any tillers on HB? I’ve had a look at 3D tour and pictures and haven’t seen any yet!

 

also re sails - is it possible that all the sails are already up and furled, and therefore no hoisting/ dropping/ stacking.

Seeing as every other aspect of boat handling seems to have been addressed, seems strange there’s no systems in place for stack management, unless they don’t need to. 

[ctutmark 233]

12 minutes ago, canstead said:

Anyone seen any tillers on HB? I’ve had a look at 3D tour and pictures and haven’t seen any yet!

 

also re sails - is it possible that all the sails are already up and furled, and therefore no hoisting/ dropping/ stacking.

Seeing as every other aspect of boat handling seems to have been addressed, seems strange there’s no systems in place for stack management, unless they don’t need to. 

the tiller in 3d view is in the cockpit on the port side- it's quite high, almost against the overhead. Where it's set it's in position to steer while sitting/standing while the overhead hatches are open.

IMOCA rules are 8 sails so not all will be up. Rules also require a hatch forward of the mast so this is likely where the sails will go, especially with the aero emphasis on HB

[Miffy 2,125]

From the public images, I don't actually see an obvious internal cockpit to forward bulkhead access point and with the focus on lightness & dynamic righting moment from the very adjustable foils + the reality they're basically achieved apparent wind sailing in broad and running conditions...

I'm wondering if HB will basically carry the mainsail, storm jib, J1-3 - then basically two furling flat gennekar (code sails in some circles) for broad vs. run & save the weight by carrying some really small backup sails that they will never plan to use except for ballast. 

It doesn't look like it takes much sail area to get that boat moving on the foils, and once they're on the foils - esp in high density cold air, it might be cruising 25+ knots on sail area that that Macif (current BP) would be cruising under 20 in the same conditions.

[jb5 1,126]

51 minutes ago, Miffy said:

From the public images, I don't actually see an obvious internal cockpit to forward bulkhead access point and with the focus on lightness & dynamic righting moment from the very adjustable foils + the reality they're basically achieved apparent wind sailing in broad and running conditions...

I'm wondering if HB will basically carry the mainsail, storm jib, J1-3 - then basically two furling flat gennekar (code sails in some circles) for broad vs. run & save the weight by carrying some really small backup sails that they will never plan to use except for ballast. 

It doesn't look like it takes much sail area to get that boat moving on the foils, and once they're on the foils - esp in high density cold air, it might be cruising 25+ knots on sail area that that Macif (current BP) would be cruising under 20 in the same conditions.

Agree.  Probably the same on all the new boats.

Re-storage of sails posts I've yet to see anyone store them inside the front of the boat.  They all stack at the rear.  My guess the sails not hoisted will be outside at the very rear.  HB should have similar space behind the cockpit to Charal and they seem to use it that way.

[JonRowe 673]

1 hour ago, ctutmark said:

the tiller in 3d view is in the cockpit on the port side- it's quite high, almost against the overhead. Where it's set it's in position to steer while sitting/standing while the overhead hatches are open.

I believe it (the tiller) is removable and can be tacked and go outside as well

[canstead 20]

2 hours ago, JonRowe said:

I believe it (the tiller) is removable and can be tacked and go outside as well

Wow, that really not got much travel on it does it, what 5 degrees!?

[Chasm 596]

Nice combination of photo and CAD in the interior tour.

Some more videos:

 

 

[JonRowe 673]

The cockpit video:

More details about building / design decisions

[Chasm 596]

In that video you can see the way from front to back. Interesting dual use for it! (The bunk goes in there.) 
There was also a video about weight:

 

[huey 2 513]

Interesting skeleton

 

[Fiji Bitter 1,440]

Must say they really do these video's rather nicely. A no nonsense and open approach, giving an insight in the complexity of the process.

Was wondering for what target group they produce these, and came to the conclusion that they like this thread so much that they decided to put this effort in for all of us on SA !

Thanks Hugo Boss, good luck in the TJV and keep the video's coming please.

[SCARECROW 554]

I love the direction the team has taken publicity wise.  Gone are the stunts etc. instead being replaced with what are probably cheaper to produce but far more interesting technical videos.

Also interesting to hear that if logic from the video is followed the boys will be sharing a tooth brush on the TJV and that it might also be used as a toilet and dish brush.  Wonder if it will be black with pink highlights.

[yl75 1,015]

Alex video interview below from voiles et voiliers :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/transat-jacques-vabre/video-entretien-verite-avec-alex-thomson-dans-un-an-hugo-boss-sera-10-a-15-plus-rapide-15bb541c-f646-11e9-911f-7fcf1c655746

[yl75 1,015]

On 10/23/2019 at 2:22 PM, Laurent said:

I agree with you that it seems to be the right place for the stored headsails:

- below deck, to not lose all the hard work done on the aerodynamics

- as far away as possible from the centerline of the boat

- as far aft as possible (or at least to have the option to drag them as far aft as possible... or is it as necessary on foilers as it was on previous generations???)

 

But then...

How do you get them out from below deck to the foredeck?

And how do you move them from one side to the other when you change tack???

 

Looking at the pictures, I could not figure that one out...

Yes also seems to me that they store the sails  aft most of the time, and seems to be true also with the new foilers (like in the cockpit for Arkea Paprec)

And on HB the opening should allow to get them out of the "living area", from the skeleton view above, he should be able to store them on the sides, as there seems to be opening going on each side of the cockpit area.

To change side, I guess pulling it aft with one end out of the opening if necessary, then pushing it on the other side ?

[Miffy 2,125]

8 hours ago, yl75 said:

Alex video interview below from voiles et voiliers :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/transat-jacques-vabre/video-entretien-verite-avec-alex-thomson-dans-un-an-hugo-boss-sera-10-a-15-plus-rapide-15bb541c-f646-11e9-911f-7fcf1c655746

My two takeaways from the video:

 

1. 4000 nm since launch

2. AT was asked about his grounding mistake and his response is classy as always. 

[yl75 1,015]

I'm not sure what he is referring to exactly when he is saying about his electric motor and fossile fuels :

"The rules have changed now, so what Conrad did (no engine/generator at all) is no more possible now" (or something mile that)

.

[Miffy 2,125]

Last edition they carved out an exception/exemption (?) for Conrad - he was able to regen with the prop open provided he maintained an electric log & sent the log back at regular intervals. 

[yl75 1,015]

Yes but Alex will also regen, and I don't think the associated tech has changed (need to start the motor to open the prop), so the rule change must be about something else.

[dangerousdave 6]

11 hours ago, Miffy said:

Last edition they carved out an exception/exemption (?) for Conrad - he was able to regen with the prop open provided he maintained an electric log & sent the log back at regular intervals. 

 

9 hours ago, yl75 said:

Yes but Alex will also regen, and I don't think the associated tech has changed (need to start the motor to open the prop), so the rule change must be about something else.

Could it be that they let Conrad do it because that was the main mission of his entry, and he wasn't going to be winning. Alex on the other hand is in contention to win, so letting him save XX kilos in diesel and a generator is more contentious. 

[minca3 191]

 

[Raptorsailor 284]

8 minutes ago, minca3 said:

 

pretty good piece. Lots of superlatives that describe him nicely along with that ever present ominous-ness that surrounds him.

[Chimp too 305]

One of the everyday jobs on an IMOCA is checking the structure. Never an easy job, but looks like it will be an absolute nightmare on this one as Alex will need to scramble up either side of the living and sail trim areas which are closed off, to get to the bow and do checks.

[jb5 1,126]

14 hours ago, dangerousdave said:

 

Could it be that they let Conrad do it because that was the main mission of his entry, and he wasn't going to be winning. Alex on the other hand is in contention to win, so letting him save XX kilos in diesel and a generator is more contentious. 

If they are enforcing the sealed propulsion requirements the diesel weight carried vs a typical diesel engine / alternator setup can be about the same. Use solar and impellers as you want to save fuel weight with either option. Still have to carry the 20 L of emergency fuel as well.

Removes one of the key benefits of using the electric motor and leaves extra complexity and risk. Its not even got the 'green' angle which Conrad had. 

[Rail Meat 284]

I got a tour of the boat yesterday (thank you Jesse!).  The innovation is incredible... it jumps two or three steps in the evolutionary cycle.  

[pilot 25]

 

[staysail 310]

Very tough luck for Alex and Neal. Noticed on the Hugo Boss website tracker that they are moving in a south westerly direction. Wondering what plans are in place for getting them and the boat back to safe harbour. Are they able to use the motor? Are there any support vessels on the way to them?

[Fiji Bitter 1,440]

What happened?   

 

[staysail 310]

I have been following the race on the HB tracker which was the best one and suddenly it has disappeared and HB isn't shown on other trackers.

Hope the guys are OK and this is just a PR decision to pull it.

[JonRowe 673]

1 hour ago, staysail said:

I have been following the race on the HB tracker which was the best one and suddenly it has disappeared and HB isn't shown on other trackers.

Hope the guys are OK and this is just a PR decision to pull it.

Well as you pointed out they are no longer racing, and the race mode hub has other things than the tracker on it. Is it worth having stale AT stats? As I'm sure as hell they wouldn't want to publish his live stats right now, and its easier to turn the whole page off.

[staysail 310]

1 hour ago, JonRowe said:

Well as you pointed out they are no longer racing, and the race mode hub has other things than the tracker on it. Is it worth having stale AT stats? As I'm sure as hell they wouldn't want to publish his live stats right now, and its easier to turn the whole page off.

The HB site tracker was very good, betterthan the Organisers, and of course people are interested to see where the boat goes and in the progress to get the boat and the guys to safety. The position of the boat is far from "stale" info.

[RImike 149]

5 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

What happened?   

 

They hit a submerged object going 25 knots and almost* lost the keel. At that time it was just being held on just by the ram so this morning they cut the ram and dropped the keel to Davy Jones' Locker and have filled the ballast tanks and extended the foils and are sailing towards port: https://www.alexthomsonracing.com/blog/2019/11/04/alex-thomson-racing-update-transat-jacques-vabre-2/ 

[JonRowe 673]

26 minutes ago, staysail said:

The HB site tracker was very good, betterthan the Organisers, and of course people are interested to see where the boat goes and in the progress to get the boat and the guys to safety. The position of the boat is far from "stale" info.

The HB tracker is the Geovoile tracker, same as the organiser and other teams, with a different skin and some different settings. The stats I was referring to was the HB mood, and heart rate etc thats good publicity for the team, but not really appropriate to update during an emergency

[staysail 310]

50 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

The HB tracker is the Geovoile tracker, same as the organiser and other teams, with a different skin and some different settings. The stats I was referring to was the HB mood, and heart rate etc thats good publicity for the team, but not really appropriate to update during an emergency

Fair comment and understand about the tracker data being the same but for some reason the website's one does not work nearly as well on our pcs and tablets as the HB and Apivia ones did/do. And the HB boat position is no longer available.

[JonRowe 673]

58 minutes ago, staysail said:

Fair comment and understand about the tracker data being the same but for some reason the website's one does not work nearly as well on our pcs and tablets as the HB and Apivia ones did/do. And the HB boat position is no longer available.

They, Apivia and HB just seem to be newer versions of the Geovoile tracker than TJV, maybe no budget to update the tracker on the site this year?  But you can still access the AT tracker, http://alexthomsonracing.geovoile.com/jacquesvabre/2019/tracker/ just no update position wise from HB which must be their choice, or the ROs choice I guess, it'll be the same Yellow Brick data across any tracker.

[stief 3,563]

5 hours ago, JonRowe said:

The stats I was referring to was the HB mood, and heart rate etc thats good publicity for the team, but not really appropriate to update during an emergency

Agree. Was surprised to see that the heart rate was updated when I checked yesterday, 12 hours after the hit. It's no longer available now.

FWIW, in the 12 hrs after the hit mood was "patient".

[popo 179]

News from the boss

[stief 3,563]

Thanks pops.  They're being quite open about the details. 

[popo 179]

Must be quite scary to grind a big steel rod with 3 tons hanging and moving attached to it !

I wonder how many discs they used !

[Kenny Dumas 251]

30 degrees max heel: nerve wracking 

[stief 3,563]

They said a few discs. And the keel "popped" off while they were taking a break. 

Lucky Alex wasn't impaled on the pedestal.

[Laurent 1,574]

And Alex said that after the shock, the boat veered to port and they capsized, AND LATER RECOVERED !

How, with a broken keel dangling from the bottom of the boat????  

[SSolo 149]

46 minutes ago, popo said:

Must be quite scary to grind a big steel rod with 3 tons hanging and moving attached to it !

I wonder how many discs they used !

Pete called me and asked how far i could cut through a 60mm dia Nitronic 50 bar (that i just happened to have from Pegasus) using one 115mm dia 'plasma' cutting disc in the battery angle grinder.....20+ mins later i confirmed - yes 1 disc will do it.

But then they were not in a nice stable and dry workshop so am pretty sure they used more than one disc

Glad Alex, Neal and the boat are ok and happy that pete's  ol' man could help :-)..... but looks my chance of a sail is delayed

[Chimp too 305]

The worrying thing now for them is that the boat will be most stable when at sufficient speed that they get the dynamic stability from the foils. So finding the sweet spot of keeping it going as fast as you can without risking it too much. 
I would suspect that the keel wetbox and bulkheads are seriously damaged as well as the hull. That won’t be a quick or simple repair unfortunately.

[Chasm 596]

14 minutes ago, Laurent said:

And Alex said that after the shock, the boat veered to port and they capsized, AND LATER RECOVERED !

How, with a broken keel dangling from the bottom of the boat????  

The keel was still under the boat, so the usual way. Remove sail area and get pulled upright again.
Now, as said in the video, don't try this again without the keel... Slow boating with very little sail area and likely most sails reused as ballast.

[popo 179]

18 minutes ago, SSolo said:

Pete called me and asked how far i could cut through a 60mm dia Nitronic 50 bar (that i just happened to have from Pegasus) using one 115mm dia 'plasma' cutting disc in the battery angle grinder.....20+ mins later i confirmed - yes 1 disc will do it.

But then they were not in a nice stable and dry workshop so am pretty sure they used more than one disc

Glad Alex, Neal and the boat are ok and happy that pete's  ol' man could help :-)..... but looks my chance of a sail is delayed

Thanks for the insights !

I don't even know who Pete is

[popo 179]

16 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

The worrying thing now for them is that the boat will be most stable when at sufficient speed that they get the dynamic stability from the foils.

I don't think they can accelerate enough without a keel to start providing suffisant lift from the foils, can they ?

[stief 3,563]

34 minutes ago, popo said:

Thanks for the insights !

I don't even know who Pete is

His son  (apologies if you already know). 

Was wondering if Pete and Guillaume Verdier were on the phone all night with each other going over calculations and tolerances. 

[JonRowe 673]

Alex proving again he can put on a brave face when disaster strikes, well done him, still sounds like the boat is going at pace even tho I bet its not.

[popo 179]

Thanks i really didn't know

@SSolo you ought to be proud of your son !

That the concept works or not, this design team had the guts to go way outside the box and produced a boat that will ever be a landmark (seamark ?) In the IMOCA serie !

[Floating Duck 110]

17 minutes ago, popo said:

That the concept works or not, this design team had the guts to go way outside the box and produced a boat that will ever be a landmark (seamark ?) In the IMOCA serie !

Uhh... I mean... He first has to finish something. Anything at this point 

[JonRowe 673]

5 minutes ago, Floating Duck said:

Uhh... I mean... He first has to finish something. Anything at this point 

Charal abandoned it's first race (Route Du Rhum) and is doing quite well in this one at the moment, the last Boss, now 11th hour, did quite well in the VG after being abandoned entirely in this race last go around and seems to be holding its own this time around... So... 

[mad 3,712]

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

And Alex said that after the shock, the boat veered to port and they capsized, AND LATER RECOVERED !

How, with a broken keel dangling from the bottom of the boat????  

Just seen the clip, wondering the same thing.  I guess as it’s still vaguely hanging off the bottom it does have some righting moment? 

[popo 179]

1 minute ago, mad said:

Just seen the clip, wondering the same thing.  I guess as it’s still vaguely hanging off the bottom it does have some righting moment? 

No one to do the math ? 6 meters width boat 70° angle, 27m mast 3 tons keel.

My girls are to young for me to have to help them with this kind of homework yet

[mad 3,712]

1 hour ago, SSolo said:

Pete called me and asked how far i could cut through a 60mm dia Nitronic 50 bar (that i just happened to have from Pegasus) using one 115mm dia 'plasma' cutting disc in the battery angle grinder.....20+ mins later i confirmed - yes 1 disc will do it.

But then they were not in a nice stable and dry workshop so am pretty sure they used more than one disc

Glad Alex, Neal and the boat are ok and happy that pete's  ol' man could help :-)..... but looks my chance of a sail is delayed

 

4 minutes ago, popo said:

No one to do the math ? 6 meters width boat 70° angle, 27m mast 3 tons keel.

My girls are to young for me to have to help them with this kind of homework yet

It’s almost 11pm and I’m on my third glass of wine, I could do with the help. 

[JonRowe 673]

2 hours ago, Laurent said:

And Alex said that after the shock, the boat veered to port and they capsized, AND LATER RECOVERED !

How, with a broken keel dangling from the bottom of the boat????  

 

19 minutes ago, mad said:

Just seen the clip, wondering the same thing.  I guess as it’s still vaguely hanging off the bottom it does have some righting moment? 

Isn't that exactly what the IMOCA 180 degree test, er, tests? That if the keel is in the worse possible position (e.g attached but all the way down) that the boat can still self right?

[popo 179]

All the way down it's far from beeing the same angle than when the keel il broken and hanging on the side ! Very different righting moment !

[mad 3,712]

What’s the max angle keel cant on IMOCA? I haven’t kept up with the latest stability rules. It definitely doesn’t mimic this scenario 

17 minutes ago, popo said:

All the way down it's far from beeing the same angle than when the keel il broken and hanging on the side ! Very different righting moment !

 

[Fiji Bitter 1,440]

1 hour ago, mad said:

What’s the max angle keel cant on IMOCA? I haven’t kept up with the latest stability rules. It definitely doesn’t mimic this scenario 

 

Have another glass of wine, Mad...

Just a rough questimate tells me that at 90° heel, the righting moment with the keel completely free swinging (hanging straight down), will be about 1/20 of the normal value. My totally sober gut feeling is that it would balance the rig, but not come back up or capsize completely. In the end the wave action will decide your faith.

But I've never really tried something like that, and have no intention to proof it empirically. The closest I have tried is to sink a small and narrow 550kg keelboat with a 250kg bulbkeel, by rocking it with 12 youngsters onboard. We capsized to about 110° and when the water started pouring into the hatch I told those still hanging on to let the fuck go of the rigging. 

A proper Chinese jibe in 40kn wind will give you a similar feeling, always good fun after you clean up the mess...

PS. Completely without a keel it's just a big dinghy, but we all know that.

[CBGB 3]

Presumably with all the Nokia Bell labs cameras etc this collision will have been captured on video - I wonder if we'll ever get to see it..?

[kdock44 5]

Just now, CBGB said:

Presumably with all the Nokia Bell labs cameras etc this collision will have been captured on video - I wonder if we'll ever get to see it..?

Are they capturing and storing that footage on board? That would add some small amount of weight

[Laurent 1,574]

5 hours ago, JonRowe said:

 

Isn't that exactly what the IMOCA 180 degree test, er, tests? That if the keel is in the worse possible position (e.g attached but all the way down) that the boat can still self right?

Not exactly. The worse condition for a 180 inverted IMOCA is with the keel centered. They are so bloody wide and flat decked that they are stable upside down, that is with the keel centered. It is by canting the keel while inverted that you "unbalance" the whole thing and get it back the right side up.

And another one where you see the actual hull flipping around...

 

 

[Laurent 1,574]

4 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Just a rough questimate tells me that at 90° heel, the righting moment with the keel completely free swinging (hanging straight down), will be about 1/20 of the normal value. My totally sober gut feeling is that it would balance the rig, but not come back up or capsize completely. In the end the wave action will decide your faith.

But I've never really tried something like that, and have no intention to proof it empirically.

Yes Fiji Bitter, that's what I meant.

If you are "lying on your ear" and the keel canting axis is broken and the whole keel is dangling from the end of the hydraulic ram, once the boat is on its side, the keel must be tangential to the bottom of the hull. Not much lever for a righting moment... My gut feeling is that they got lucky to get it right back up....

[Dark Cloud 303]

8 hours ago, Laurent said:

And Alex said that after the shock, the boat veered to port and they capsized, AND LATER RECOVERED !

How, with a broken keel dangling from the bottom of the boat????  

Capsized can also mean knocked down, as in mast touching the water, not necessarily upside down

[Fiji Bitter 1,440]

5 hours ago, CBGB said:

Presumably with all the Nokia Bell labs cameras etc this collision will have been captured on video - I wonder if we'll ever get to see it..?

I would really hope so. But it may not quite show as bad an impact as they say.  That's all I will say at this moment, and don't ask me why...

 

[JonRowe 673]

They definitely will have the option of capturing video, the gears already there after all (navigation computer quite capable of storing some video), I'd want at least a "volvo style" crash button to capture the last however minutes in case something happened worth analysing later! Storing all of the footage might take a bigger harddrive, but we're talking a couple of hundred grams, maybe a kilo or two if they have a dedicated device in addition to the laptop.

Wether they share it or not I guess would be if it creates some good PR. If I had to guess we might see some of it as part of a "recap" / "post mortem" style video while the boats in the shed?

[terrafirma 977]

I hate to say it after all the work that's gone into the new boat but Alex will never win the Vendee Globe. Alex is always in the news all for the wrong reasons come race day. Guys like Armel Le Cleach just get the job done and time goes by. We'd all love to see Alex win, sick of the French. Since AT Racing have been in the news the last couple of days due to the collision everybody on these forums goes through the usual procedures. We're glad they're safe, pity about the boat but nobody seems prepared to read the Crystal Ball. There are a heard of Imoca's racing this week but only one is in the news for colliding with a UFO. Same race last time Alex had structural problems. He's had every problem you can think off. The time has come to say we laud ATR for competing and making the news time and time again but it's also time to realize something is amiss. Winning a race easily and then running into an island was the final sign for me. Not all of you will see the sign because "HOPE" is always left. But age and his curse are well against him when it comes to the VG so to make matters interesting I'm accepting bet's if you still think Alex can win? 

[resist 29]

You clearly don’t hate to say it it’s all you bang on about

[GibGibGib 46]

14 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I hate to say it after all the work that's gone into the new boat but Alex will never win the Vendee Globe. Alex is always in the news all for the wrong reasons come race day. Guys like Armel Le Cleach just get the job done and time goes by. We'd all love to see Alex win, sick of the French. Since AT Racing have been in the news the last couple of days due to the collision everybody on these forums goes through the usual procedures. We're glad they're safe, pity about the boat but nobody seems prepared to read the Crystal Ball. There are a heard of Imoca's racing this week but only one is in the news for colliding with a UFO. Same race last time Alex had structural problems. He's had every problem you can think off. The time has come to say we laud ATR for competing and making the news time and time again but it's also time to realize something is amiss. Winning a race easily and then running into an island was the final sign for me. Not all of you will see the sign because "HOPE" is always left. But age and his curse are well against him when it comes to the VG so to make matters interesting I'm accepting bet's if you still think Alex can win? 

I don't really know your IMOCA background, but this kind of reaction seems a bit silly to me. Sure AT had his share of technical issues and mismanagement, but he has also been on the podium of the two last VG, and is backed by one of the strongest IMOCA team around. Sure, Le Cléac'h is a beast, doing 3 podiums in a row, including a win. But not that long ago he also was all over the news for having binned his ultra expensive Ultim TWICE in a year, resulting in the loss of the boat.

I'm a big fan of both sailors, but it seems a bit unfair for Alex to paint him like you did. Indeed the french/Lorient/PLF scene is very good, but there is an argument to be made that they might be too conservatives sometimes, and going over the top might be the only way to beat them at their game, as Alex almost demonstrated with his last boat. 

[Dark Cloud 303]

29 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I hate to say it after all the work that's gone into the new boat but Alex will never win the Vendee Globe. Alex is always in the news all for the wrong reasons come race day. Guys like Armel Le Cleach just get the job done and time goes by. We'd all love to see Alex win, sick of the French. Since AT Racing have been in the news the last couple of days due to the collision everybody on these forums goes through the usual procedures. We're glad they're safe, pity about the boat but nobody seems prepared to read the Crystal Ball. There are a heard of Imoca's racing this week but only one is in the news for colliding with a UFO. Same race last time Alex had structural problems. He's had every problem you can think off. The time has come to say we laud ATR for competing and making the news time and time again but it's also time to realize something is amiss. Winning a race easily and then running into an island was the final sign for me. Not all of you will see the sign because "HOPE" is always left. But age and his curse are well against him when it comes to the VG so to make matters interesting I'm accepting bet's if you still think Alex can win? 

Yeah but he's the best PR the sport (yachts and racing, and stuff) has going for it. 

[Raptorsailor 284]

42 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

I hate to say it after all the work that's gone into the new boat but Alex will never win the Vendee Globe. Alex is always in the news all for the wrong reasons come race day. Guys like Armel Le Cleach just get the job done and time goes by. We'd all love to see Alex win, sick of the French. Since AT Racing have been in the news the last couple of days due to the collision everybody on these forums goes through the usual procedures. We're glad they're safe, pity about the boat but nobody seems prepared to read the Crystal Ball. There are a heard of Imoca's racing this week but only one is in the news for colliding with a UFO. Same race last time Alex had structural problems. He's had every problem you can think off. The time has come to say we laud ATR for competing and making the news time and time again but it's also time to realize something is amiss. Winning a race easily and then running into an island was the final sign for me. Not all of you will see the sign because "HOPE" is always left. But age and his curse are well against him when it comes to the VG so to make matters interesting I'm accepting bet's if you still think Alex can win? 

Note: you can't do jackshit about shite in the water. You'd have to be stupid to use UFO collisions as a judgement for someone's performance, especially in long distance ocean racing like, i don't know... IMOCA's.

Also, if my memory serves me right, he made little to no mistakes in the last VG, and guess what, he had the fastest boat but he hit some crap in the water and still came 2nd. Sebastien Josse DNF'd after the same happened to him. 

[popo 179]

 

Gotta get my hat off for them, really calm and composed and taking time to explain to the public.

[Miffy 2,125]

AT’s response under calamity is why he gets continued sponsorship. Fishing trawler T bones his boat? Put on brace face and try to start. 
Have to cut a keel loose? Get the iPhone out and make a video for the sponsors. 

[Rasputin22 2,567]

10 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Capsized can also mean knocked down, as in mast touching the water, not necessarily upside down

Like Dark Cloud mentions, the distinction between a knock down with the mast in the water and fully 180° upside down (turtled) is considerable. Both could be called capsized but they are worlds apart in the seriousness of the situation. 

I bet they start carrying Thermite Lances on board for cutting those rams away in a circumstance like this. Hours to do with a battery angle grinder but it would take about 10 minutes with a lance.

     Just ask McGyver!