ctutmark 233 #301 Posted August 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Mr Moab said: Happens all the time in pro cycling. A low% of the public actually cares. A high % sees a cool boat and a brand and thinks “hmm, maybe I will check that out”. also happens in pro sailing with gear- See Dongfeng in the volvo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bushsailor 67 #302 Posted August 11, 2019 The thing most people do not realize is that the autopilot systems on these boats are completely custom built with no relation to any off the shelf components from any brand. Therefore it is a smart move from Raymarine to get there name on a boat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickDastardly 227 #303 Posted August 11, 2019 On 8/6/2019 at 1:08 PM, littlechay said: That's my take on what those are for two. Complicated geometry but it looks as if the whole rudder including stock can kick up, another reason for the separate tiller and associated linkage. Pretty simple change in case of breakage too. It looks like a pretty standard IMOCA kick-up rudder arrangement IMHO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weightless 486 #304 Posted August 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Trevor B said: Another thought on using a Diesel engine for energy generation, how do you cool it on a foiler? Use a radiator? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
savoir 177 #305 Posted August 12, 2019 On 8/11/2019 at 4:38 AM, Chimp too said: I think that Raymarine and Raytheon are both part of the Navico group, so the guys are probably from someone else in the group. Just for the record - Raytheon and Raymarine certainly did start out together but parted ways in 2001. Raytheon is now owned by United Technologies who are a pretty secretive outfit that makes all kinds of military hardware that is mostly aircraft related. The only brand of theirs that is commonly known is Pratt and Whitney the aircraft engine company. Raymarine is part of the FLIR group which makes a range of military electronics. Navico, in addition to the brands that others have mentioned, also make the C Map charting system. Go back a few years and they were making the Robertson and Northstar ranges. You can still get parts for both from Simrad dealers. Stop by my boat sometime and I'll show you a true museum piece - my Raytheon GPS which still works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zonker 2,455 #306 Posted August 12, 2019 15 minutes ago, savoir said: United Technologies who are a pretty secretive outfit Not very secretive at all - just a big conglomerate. Well they also owned Sikorsky helicopters until fairly recently. Otis Elevators, Kidde (fire extinguishers), Carrier (A/C giant), Collins Aerospace (airplane parts), Chubb Security, etc etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiji Bitter 1,440 #307 Posted August 12, 2019 Savoir, just for the record, Raytheon and Raymarine did not "start out together". And Flir does not just make a range of military products. And BTW, FYI, the original Navico was a small English company with a very cheap autopilot and instruments. And stop by my boat sometime and I show you a true museum piece - my great grandpa's very first five-channel GPS, weighing 270 pounds: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 2,428 #308 Posted August 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said: Savoir, just for the record, Raytheon and Raymarine did not "start out together". And Flir does not just make a range of military products. And BTW, FYI, the original Navico was a small English company with a very cheap autopilot and instruments. And stop by my boat sometime and I show you a true museum piece - my great grandpa's very first five-channel GPS, weighing 270 pounds: Did the assistant navigator make the tea? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsailor 84 #309 Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Zonker said: Not very secretive at all - just a big conglomerate. Well they also owned Sikorsky helicopters until fairly recently. Otis Elevators, Kidde (fire extinguishers), Carrier (A/C giant), Collins Aerospace (airplane parts), Chubb Security, etc etc Raytheon = defense stuff UTC = Pratt, Otis, Carrier and Collins Aero. Collins makes lots of stuff for Boeing and Airbus planes, some defense stuff but not much (they also make the hoists that the CG Helo will use if you start sinking...... Otis and Carrier being spun off and then remaining UTC will merge with Raytheon... and, based on my experience with FLIR, they are super smart engineers, who are involved with a lot of very cool projects and also include some pretty experienced sailors 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
savoir 177 #310 Posted August 12, 2019 36 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said: Savoir, just for the record, Raytheon and Raymarine did not "start out together". And Flir does not just make a range of military products. And BTW, FYI, the original Navico was a small English company with a very cheap autopilot and instruments. And stop by my boat sometime and I show you a true museum piece - my great grandpa's very first five-channel GPS, weighing 270 pounds: I sure hope you get an age allowance for carrying that thing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma 977 #311 Posted August 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Trevor B said: Another thought on using a Diesel engine for energy generation, how do you cool it on a foiler? Same problem exists for the hydro-generators, tough to do if you’re not actually in the water....! I suppose with a Heat Exchanger cooling system the internal water has a small period where it can sustain cooling until it's exchanged again? The foilers aren't staying out of the water for long although I suspect the new boats plan to so yes good question. Perhaps and increase in cooling water may help? A small raw water reservoir may help in between flight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyharford 48 #312 Posted August 12, 2019 better wind forecast ....foils this week ? ....Sailing ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilot 25 #313 Posted August 12, 2019 18 hours ago, Trevor B said: Another thought on using a Diesel engine for energy generation, how do you cool it on a foiler? This was solved already years ago with the OD keel - the raw water intake is now in the keel fin. 18 hours ago, Trevor B said: Same problem exists for the hydro-generators, tough to do if you’re not actually in the water....! I hope this will be solved with the next version of OD keel where the electrical propulsion is integrated into the keel bulb. Hopefully. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndreasE 10 #314 Posted August 12, 2019 16 hours ago, DickDastardly said: It looks like a pretty standard IMOCA kick-up rudder arrangement IMHO 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,712 #316 Posted August 12, 2019 7 hours ago, hairyharford said: better wind forecast ....foils this week ? ....Sailing ? Any sign of the foils yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raptorsailor 284 #317 Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, mad said: Any sign of the foils yet? They said something about 'international reveal' on the 14th September... so I guess we have to wait until then... or if you're in the Portsmouth/Gosport area get the binoculars and cameras out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3to1 463 #318 Posted August 12, 2019 3 hours ago, AndreasE said: I love the elegance of that mechanism. the pivots wouldn't be ball joints would they? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chasm 596 #319 Posted August 12, 2019 3 hours ago, mad said: Any sign of the foils yet? Probably still trying to get Wilkinson on board. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,712 #320 Posted August 12, 2019 54 minutes ago, Chasm said: Probably still trying to get Wilkinson on board. Well they’re definitely getting the most out of the PR from it all, I’ll find the other thread. in short handed Anarchy, this forum split is a pain in the arse! The YouTube link shows the marketing drive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W9GFO 8 #321 Posted August 12, 2019 3 hours ago, 3to1 said: I love the elegance of that mechanism. the pivots wouldn't be ball joints would they? It only needs to rotate about one axis, a ball joint is not needed. I would expect ball joints to be used on the linkages though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 698 #322 Posted August 13, 2019 6 hours ago, 3to1 said: I love the elegance of that mechanism. the pivots wouldn't be ball joints would they? Balls of course: Self aligning, no need to worry about anything except length when swapping over and length adjusted with a screw of the ball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floating Duck 110 #323 Posted August 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, littlechay said: Self aligning, no need to worry about anything except length when swapping over and length adjusted with a screw of the ball. I love ball joints. Hard love. So perfect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varan 1,713 #324 Posted August 13, 2019 32 minutes ago, Tito said: I love ball joints. Hard love. So perfect. Ditto for sativa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3to1 463 #325 Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Varan said: Ditto for sativa ditto for glue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varan 1,713 #326 Posted August 13, 2019 Titanium makes good joints too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chimp too 305 #327 Posted August 13, 2019 Any chance we can get back to discussing what is new and different about the boat rather than the pretty standard kick up rudder system? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlechay 698 #328 Posted August 13, 2019 45 minutes ago, Chimp too said: Any chance we can get back to discussing what is new and different about the boat rather than the pretty standard kick up rudder system? go ahead if you have something to contribute Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gorn FRANTIC!! 403 #329 Posted August 13, 2019 59 minutes ago, littlechay said: go ahead if you have something to contribute Pink is pretty new. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma 977 #330 Posted August 13, 2019 Wonder how long before she is sailing? If there not showing the foils until September sometime that might be it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,574 #331 Posted August 13, 2019 21 hours ago, AndreasE said: Why 2 holes on the bottom platform of the assembly? I assume the forward one is where the shaft of the rudder will reside, with associated bearing assembly. But what is the aft hole for, the one close to the left hand of the guy standing beside AT? Or is it not a hole but just a recess? Still, what for, then? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeoV 2,177 #332 Posted August 13, 2019 Older Boss had them too. All I can think off; easier to spot weed on the rudder ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,712 #333 Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, LeoV said: Older Boss had them too. All I can think off; easier to spot weed on the rudder ? Must get some strange turbulence from the hole though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctutmark 233 #334 Posted August 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, mad said: Must get some strange turbulence from the hole though? Many boats have plexiglass- here is the old Foncia (now Sam Davies' boat) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,712 #335 Posted August 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, ctutmark said: Many boats have plexiglass- here is the old Foncia (now Sam Davies' boat) Doh!! good point 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyharford 48 #336 Posted August 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, mad said: Must get some strange turbulence from the hole though? Will still have Plexi or Camera Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brittaniawaivestherules 32 #337 Posted August 13, 2019 She's motoring out of Portsmouth Harbour right now. First sea trials? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent 1,574 #338 Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, ctutmark said: Many boats have plexiglass- here is the old Foncia (now Sam Davies' boat) Must be it; you glue a plexiglass round piece to make the whole assembly flush and you can see if there are weeds wrapped around the rudder blade. Thank you! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raptorsailor 284 #339 Posted August 13, 2019 7 hours ago, Brittaniawaivestherules said: She's motoring out of Portsmouth Harbour right now. First sea trials? foils? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
W9GFO 8 #340 Posted August 15, 2019 On 8/12/2019 at 7:05 PM, littlechay said: Balls of course: Self aligning, no need to worry about anything except length when swapping over and length adjusted with a screw of the ball. The advantage that I see for using a ball joint for that pivot is simplicity. A regular bearing, even a self aligning bearing would require the axle to be at an angle relative to the end of the strut. Totally doable but a ball joint does not require that direction change and is therefor simpler to contsruct. And yes, I can see how it would be easier to thread the balls in or out to make height adjustments, but side to side adjustments would be more difficult. However, the main feature of the ball joint, the several degrees of freedom, is not utilized in this application. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floating Duck 110 #341 Posted August 15, 2019 ^^^ And we are back to balls. Love it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varan 1,713 #342 Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Tito said: ^^^ And we are back to balls. Love it. ^^^ And we are back to joints. Love it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varan 1,713 #343 Posted August 15, 2019 The kick back mechanism appears robust, but the actual steering arm seems a bit wimpy.. Suspect it is not just aluminum tubing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbow Spirit 284 #344 Posted August 16, 2019 No new sightings of Hugo Boss? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoom 517 #345 Posted August 16, 2019 I really wish there would be some sightings in decent resolution Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,712 #346 Posted August 16, 2019 13 hours ago, hoom said: I really wish there would be some sightings in decent resolution If they’re out today? No chance, the visibility is shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3to1 463 #347 Posted August 16, 2019 On 8/14/2019 at 7:51 PM, W9GFO said: The advantage that I see for using a ball joint for that pivot is simplicity. A regular bearing, even a self aligning bearing would require the axle to be at an angle relative to the end of the strut. Totally doable but a ball joint does not require that direction change and is therefor simpler to contsruct. And yes, I can see how it would be easier to thread the balls in or out to make height adjustments, but side to side adjustments would be more difficult. However, the main feature of the ball joint, the several degrees of freedom, is not utilized in this application. balls are where it's at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 2,428 #348 Posted August 17, 2019 14 hours ago, mad said: If they’re out today? No chance, the visibility is shit. Where you at, Mad? Gosport? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,712 #349 Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Sailbydate said: Where you at, Mad? Gosport? Out on the Solent yesterday, wet and grey......very wet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nat Ives 1 #350 Posted August 19, 2019 they are out today I am sat on the beach in Seaview and they are blast reaching out past Bembridge wiht jib and reefed main. Its 20-25kts of wind and wind against tide so they are certainly not holding back. They are about 2 miles away so no pics I am afraid but good to see them out testing hard. As I type it looks like they have paused for lunch as now cruising on main only but still heading out into the Channel proper..... then turn round, jib out and blasted back to Portsmouth! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remenich 65 #351 Posted August 19, 2019 https://www.picluck.com/media/2113910929128508671_301279421 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBleaux 45 #352 Posted August 19, 2019 Got any pics of the foils? 3 minutes ago, remenich said: https://www.picluck.com/media/2113910929128508671_301279421 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
European Bloke 425 #353 Posted August 19, 2019 It's been pretty fresh in Blighty the past few days. Not the best days for some trial sails. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBleaux 45 #354 Posted August 19, 2019 It looks like both foils are mostly all the way up in this picture. I know most of the other boats can’t do this, interested to see the solution here. I think Boss has some unique foils. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iain_C 32 #355 Posted August 19, 2019 OK, spare me the "f off newbie"...been here before but had to re-register. I was lucky enough to get up close to the boat, and I can honestly say any pictures out there so far simply do not even come close to doing it justice. It's incredible..."porn star" finsh carbon throughout (not black paint as it looks) and just details details details everywhere. Check out the forward windows on the cabin top and the nav lights built into the stanchions for starters. And...here are the foils. They look perfectly "circular" to me and very unlike any of the wide, flat, "Corsair Wing" designs elsewhere. This thing is an absolute WEAPON and Alex has probably already won the psychological startline battle in this. It is an incredible machine and I am 100% rooting for Alex this time round! 19 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Varan 1,713 #356 Posted August 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Iain_C said: OK, spare me the "f off newbie"...been here before but had to re-register. I was lucky enough to get up close to the boat, and I can honestly say any pictures out there so far simply do not even come close to doing it justice. It's incredible..."porn star" finsh carbon throughout (not black paint as it looks) and just details details details everywhere. Check out the forward windows on the cabin top and the nav lights built into the stanchions for starters. And...here are the foils. They look perfectly "circular" to me and very unlike any of the wide, flat, "Corsair Wing" designs elsewhere. This thing is an absolute WEAPON and Alex has probably already won the psychological startline battle in this. It is an incredible machine and I am 100% rooting for Alex this time round! "Far out" noob... thanks for posting the photos. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARECROW 554 #357 Posted August 19, 2019 Is it just me or with the exception of tip details, do those foils look like they could be end for ended and swapped in the event of damage? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the saint 42 #358 Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, SCARECROW said: Is it just me or with the exception of tip details, do those foils look like they could be end for ended and swapped in the event of damage? Not just you, that was my first thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeusproject 113 #359 Posted August 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, SCARECROW said: Is it just me or with the exception of tip details, do those foils look like they could be end for ended and swapped in the event of damage? That they do Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
V21 56 #361 Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Zeusproject said: That they do + 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation 32 #362 Posted August 19, 2019 Good old C boards. Used on ORMAs, Mod 70s, A-Class and many others. Proven performance for skimming boats and that is what these boats do. Cool to see. The ability to retract seems like a major plus for light air performance. Perhaps doesn't give away much in the high speed skimming area. Less righting moment lift is needed with the lowered center of effort for the sail. Everything works together to get easier rather than harder with this design it seems. Does the sail have a smaller head than some of the other boats? That would be another sensible step. The boat is narrower, the boom is lower, the boat has less less form stability, the sail plan doesn't have to have the huge head to get some early heel to reduce wetted surface, the foils have to work less hard so they can be smaller, the sailor can maneuver and trim more easily, the boat is more wave piercing and steady in pitch, etc. Life is getting easier and quicker! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TUBBY 300 #363 Posted August 20, 2019 And while we're looking at interesting boats, who is that lovely lady on the hard in the background of the second & third shots? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.finn 259 #364 Posted August 20, 2019 Anyone else curious how those boards come all the way up? I can't tell from the pictures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARECROW 554 #365 Posted August 20, 2019 I'm guessing rollers at the exits Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DtM 529 #366 Posted August 20, 2019 Iain, thanks for the great photos.answered many a question (and raised some more). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sailbydate 2,428 #367 Posted August 20, 2019 5 hours ago, SCARECROW said: Is it just me or with the exception of tip details, do those foils look like they could be end for ended and swapped in the event of damage? Just need to deal with the 400lbs or so, right? :-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.finn 259 #368 Posted August 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, Sailbydate said: Just need to deal with the 400lbs or so, right? :-) Should be easy on a pitching deck 3 hours ago, SCARECROW said: I'm guessing rollers at the exits I've never seen a roller driven system for lifting boards. Anyone know of an existing one? You can clearly see the line holding the boards down, but I have no idea how they pull them that far up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARECROW 554 #369 Posted August 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, r.finn said: I've never seen a roller driven system for lifting boards. Anyone know of an existing one? You can clearly see the line holding the boards down, but I have no idea how they pull them that far up. Its definitely been done. Possibly Leopard. Can't find any photos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chimp too 305 #370 Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, SCARECROW said: Its definitely been done. Possibly Leopard. Can't find any photos The AC72s, Camper and a couple of the other 70s. Seennthem on a few IMOCA as well close up. But sorry, don’t have any photos. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iain_C 32 #371 Posted August 20, 2019 5 hours ago, DtM said: Iain, thanks for the great photos.answered many a question (and raised some more). No worries. I thought you lot on here might like these! I'll say it again though, this looks like nothing you have ever seen and the finish and attention to detail are incredible. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iain_C 32 #372 Posted August 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Lost in Translation said: Good old C boards. Used on ORMAs, Mod 70s, A-Class and many others. Proven performance for skimming boats and that is what these boats do. Cool to see. The ability to retract seems like a major plus for light air performance. Perhaps doesn't give away much in the high speed skimming area. Less righting moment lift is needed with the lowered center of effort for the sail. Everything works together to get easier rather than harder with this design it seems. Does the sail have a smaller head than some of the other boats? That would be another sensible step. The boat is narrower, the boom is lower, the boat has less less form stability, the sail plan doesn't have to have the huge head to get some early heel to reduce wetted surface, the foils have to work less hard so they can be smaller, the sailor can maneuver and trim more easily, the boat is more wave piercing and steady in pitch, etc. Life is getting easier and quicker! Very interesting thoughts...and yes, I think you are right. "Less is more" here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chimp too 305 #373 Posted August 20, 2019 Looking at the first of Iain’s photos you can see the watertight hatch just inside the canvas covered opening and forward of the main traveller. So no separate cockpit and interior solution, all is now basically inside. also you can see that all of the sheets come out through the traveller to the transom area then forward to the sails. Logical way to keep things inside dry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iain_C 32 #374 Posted August 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chimp too said: Looking at the first of Iain’s photos you can see the watertight hatch just inside the canvas covered opening and forward of the main traveller. So no separate cockpit and interior solution, all is now basically inside. also you can see that all of the sheets come out through the traveller to the transom area then forward to the sails. Logical way to keep things inside dry. Yep. It doesn't really show in the photos but the size and design of the door make it look very much like it's going to be closed 99% of the time. The canvas cover has a zip down either side, but again it strikes me as something that will be closed nearly all of the time. I'd have expected some kind of "roller blind" arrangement if it was going to be used as some kind of conning position regularly. It's interesting the way it has all gone. I've sailed what at the time was Toe In The Water, (formerly Pindar, now Alcatraz IT), one of the much older generation fixed keel boats, but with a very exposed cockpit. I asked the skipper Steve White "so what was it really like down in the Southern Ocean", and he said "not too sure really, I hardly ever went outside". It just makes total sense to tuck everything away like this, and spend as much time looking at water flow above deck as water flow under the hull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chimp too 305 #375 Posted August 20, 2019 The push to reduce freeboard to reduce unnecessary weight and lower VCG constantly pushes in the direction of a wetter and wetter ride. So as they have done, don't fight it, but make sure that the deck sheds the water as efficiently as possible and that it doesn't slow you down too much. The reverse sheer and dramatically reduced freeboard at the transom helps this even more. After all, water on the deck is an increase in momentary sailing displacement that loads everything up. So get it off as soon as it arrives and don't worry about getting wet by staying inside out of the way. The sad thing is that even before the first TOR using the IMOCA, the designs of single handed and crewed IMOCA are diverging at an increased rate. This boat really could not be modified to compete in TOR without completely changing the philosophy. I also note that the C-Foils are tapered at the tips, so could not be fully retracted. The end 1m or so will always be out there. Probably not an issue, but interesting to me. I also hope that they get their real bobstay soon so they can get rid of that make do one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iain_C 32 #376 Posted August 20, 2019 22 minutes ago, Chimp too said: I also note that the C-Foils are tapered at the tips, so could not be fully retracted. The end 1m or so will always be out there. Probably not an issue, but interesting to me. I also hope that they get their real bobstay soon so they can get rid of that make do one. In that configuration the leeward on will probably acts as a DSS foil and the teeny bit of drag it caused may be offset by the additional righting moment (although this may be irrelevant with a canting keel?) Either way in the light stuff with presumably a smaller lighter boat, less appendages in the water and less aerodynamic drag, it's still likely to be the quickest boat out there... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma 977 #377 Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Iain_C said: In that configuration the leeward on will probably acts as a DSS foil and the teeny bit of drag it caused may be offset by the additional righting moment (although this may be irrelevant with a canting keel?) Either way in the light stuff with presumably a smaller lighter boat, less appendages in the water and less aerodynamic drag, it's still likely to be the quickest boat out there... Thanks Iain appreciate the photos.! Interesting times ahead as we always expected Alex to be different and he's done that.! Can't wait to see it sailing and how those foils perform? They could also be Gen 1 foils so what do we read into them at this point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bridhb 495 #378 Posted August 20, 2019 13 hours ago, SCARECROW said: Is it just me or with the exception of tip details, do those foils look like they could be end for ended and swapped in the event of damage? I imagine the foil section shape would prevent that but I could be wrong. Maybe they could just be extended out a little further if the tip broke off given the apparent circular shape? I would still want a cockpit! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 1,219 #379 Posted August 20, 2019 52 minutes ago, bridhb said: I imagine the foil section shape would prevent that but I could be wrong. Maybe they could just be extended out a little further if the tip broke off given the apparent circular shape? I would still want a cockpit! I can’t see the foils being end for ended, but it looks like a symmetrical spare could be a viable option. Perhaps something 50 to 75% in length so it could actually be moved about with a halyard and decent weather window. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bosshawg 30 #380 Posted August 20, 2019 Thanks Iain, great photos! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyharford 48 #381 Posted August 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, Monkey said: I can’t see the foils being end for ended, but it looks like a symmetrical spare could be a viable option. Perhaps something 50 to 75% in length so it could actually be moved about with a halyard and decent weather window. should work but the trade is the extra weight if it you do not break one or looking smug if you do but with no cockpit full of water might be ok Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilot 25 #382 Posted August 20, 2019 Do these foils have a daggerboard section like Maitre Coq foils had? Or what will prevent the boat drifting? The profile of outward C foils near to the hull don’t work against sails sideways force, rather it has the lifting force in the same direction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trimfast 71 #383 Posted August 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Chimp too said: The push to reduce freeboard to reduce unnecessary weight and lower VCG constantly pushes in the direction of a wetter and wetter ride. So as they have done, don't fight it, but make sure that the deck sheds the water as efficiently as possible and that it doesn't slow you down too much. The reverse sheer and dramatically reduced freeboard at the transom helps this even more. After all, water on the deck is an increase in momentary sailing displacement that loads everything up. So get it off as soon as it arrives and don't worry about getting wet by staying inside out of the way. The sad thing is that even before the first TOR using the IMOCA, the designs of single handed and crewed IMOCA are diverging at an increased rate. This boat really could not be modified to compete in TOR without completely changing the philosophy. I also note that the C-Foils are tapered at the tips, so could not be fully retracted. The end 1m or so will always be out there. Probably not an issue, but interesting to me. I also hope that they get their real bobstay soon so they can get rid of that make do one. Speaking of things they need to fix, they could have at least painted the bow pulpit black too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,712 #384 Posted August 20, 2019 7 hours ago, Iain_C said: No worries. I thought you lot on here might like these! I'll say it again though, this looks like nothing you have ever seen and the finish and attention to detail are incredible. Definitely, thanks for posting them up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilot 25 #385 Posted August 20, 2019 Not a significant detail but the pink rod in the steering mechanism is replaced with black one. On 8/13/2019 at 5:05 AM, littlechay said: 16 hours ago, Iain_C said: ! And I am a bit surprised to see how much of the transom is submerged. Does it have ballast tanks filled or is it the result of extra flat bottom? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurker1 2 #386 Posted August 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, pilot said: Do these foils have a daggerboard section like Maitre Coq foils had? Or what will prevent the boat drifting? The profile of outward C foils near to the hull don’t work against sails sideways force, rather it has the lifting force in the same direction. If the foils have a symmetrical cross section near the tip then they could be used mostly retracted upwind so just the mostly vertical part of the board is in the water. In that mode they'd be sailing upwind with the foils loaded on the reverse side of when they're sailing downwind and the package would look pretty similar to the daggerboard boats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation 32 #387 Posted August 20, 2019 59 minutes ago, pilot said: Do these foils have a daggerboard section like Maitre Coq foils had? Or what will prevent the boat drifting? The profile of outward C foils near to the hull don’t work against sails sideways force, rather it has the lifting force in the same direction. Should work just like any other C boards. Normally, vertically oriented C boards have area near the tips providing more lift and the area nearer the boat providing leeway resistance. These are flipped since they are aimed outside. The primary leeway resistance will come from the tips with more lift coming from the more horizontal forces. Most fast boats have immersed transoms. As the boat speeds up, the stern will have dynamic lift. For real light air performance, I wonder if Alex has a tank in the bow he can load up to get the stern clear of the water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lost in Translation 32 #388 Posted August 20, 2019 Looking at Lurker's post made me chuckle as we had different interpretations. I suppose that is the beauty of the C board. Depending on the heeling of the boat, different parts of the board do different things. Roll the boat over enough, and the could be horizontal and purely lifting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilot 25 #389 Posted August 20, 2019 Foils probably need to be lowered in light winds. At least it looks from behind that some bigger headsail might not fit over the retracted foil. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurker1 2 #390 Posted August 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said: Should work just like any other C boards. Normally, vertically oriented C boards have area near the tips providing more lift and the area nearer the boat providing leeway resistance. These are flipped since they are aimed outside. The primary leeway resistance will come from the tips with more lift coming from the more horizontal forces. Most fast boats have immersed transoms. As the boat speeds up, the stern will have dynamic lift. For real light air performance, I wonder if Alex has a tank in the bow he can load up to get the stern clear of the water. The issue with C-boards aimed outside is that if you're relying on them for both lift and leeway resistance then you've got both pressure and suction on both sides of the board and that is super draggy. It's basically negative endplating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites