james3232

New Hugo Boss Spotted

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On 8/23/2019 at 4:39 PM, jb5 said:

Normally you would want the sail weight at the back.  Really doubt they will be storing any larger sails in the bow.

Maybe the rolled sail is rolled below deck?

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If you are going to use a halyard to get sails out from down below then just forward of the mast is the ideal spot to do it. Sure there is an internal system to move sails fore and aft and the hatches and cut outs in bulkheads have been positioned with this in mind.

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They all use sliders don't they? Wouldnt be too hard to pull it out from the back along one

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I wonder if the constant-ish curve foils are there to sidestep the high speed->excess lift->bow up-> ventilate and crash cycle caused by not allowing foils on the rudders. The other foil designs can move the lifting part of the foil in and out (charal and apivia) which controls righting moment but not lift or adjust the cant of the foil as it moves in and out (arkea) but none of the others seem to be able to reduce the area of the section of the foil that is actually loaded to produce lift. It seems like hb is the only one that can "reef" the foils to stay in skimming mode at higher speeds instead of porpoising and crashing. If that's what they've done then he'll have quite the advantage in the southern ocean.

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An interesting picture was published by ATR.

I cropped it a bit to bring out what can be seen from the enclosed mid-cockpit:

1720701368_69549816_3533051750042185_8364908288856293376_o(2).thumb.jpg.3825deb25b96dbf66d9a102aa380cca0.jpg

As expected the wall visible from outside continues below. So the mid cockpit splits the boat into three section longitudinally. Looks good solution for storing sails and stock at one side. And it looks like the V shaped floor at stern continues under the enclosed cockpit. So it has a huge storage room in back as well. I am not surprised if there is some kind of carriage that helps to move things from one side top another below the stern. 
I also assume that the cockpit is completely isolated from rest of the boat and there will be an air-dryer or conditioner working for making living inside possible while sailing in warmer region. Probably some of these hatches can be replaced with a dome to improve visibility in more wet conditions. 

Edit: Sry. This is forward section, so we are seeing the lowered mast step floor continuing in the enclosed mid-cockpit. 

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So, this is the corner where these guys are standing. I assume that tapes were applied to the places where there will be bulkheads or floors attached.

HB6.png.8d431071decb0a785e4383dc24db5963.png

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1 hour ago, pilot said:

So, this is the corner where these guys are standing. I assume that tapes were applied to the places where there will be bulkheads or floors attached.

 

Also centreline, waterlines, stations and cut lines. So they don't tell you a lot about where stuff will end up.

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I would put the cockpit floor right on the level where the waterline is to lower the COG. Or maybe an inch lower as the water will be sucked out while moving. Previously I coldn't figure it out - are these thru-hulls visible in the picture cockpit drains or for scoops of ballast water. Now looking the picture they published I understand that the longitudinal line on the floor is marking the wall of the cockpit and these thru-hulls are right on the place where I expect the cockpit to end. So, these are located at the lowest point of the cockpit while heeled. After that there will be another bulkhead to house the engine room. On top of this I assume are these small windows that do not make any sense above the cockpit. 

In front of the bulkhead that they are installing is the keel-box. And in the middle of the next bulkhead there is a tunnel visible for halyards (the blue center line tape goes in it):

HB7.thumb.jpg.31f1a44bcd5331900adea84c3a581cf4.jpg

One thing I cannot figure out. I expect one of the winches to be on top of the keelbox or at least in front of it. The most logical place where the tunnel of bow lines would come in is on the right side of the compression post as the sail-locker hatch is on the left side. But tape-markings, that are the most closest to be it, are on the left side. This does not make any sense as winches are feed commonly from the right side (clockwise)... 

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58 minutes ago, pilot said:

I would put the cockpit floor right on the level where the waterline is to lower the COG. Or maybe an inch lower as the water will be sucked out while moving. Previously I coldn't figure it out - are these thru-hulls visible in the picture cockpit drains or for scoops of ballast water. Now looking the picture they published I understand that the longitudinal line on the floor is marking the wall of the cockpit and these thru-hulls are right on the place where I expect the cockpit to end. So, these are located at the lowest point of the cockpit while heeled. After that there will be another bulkhead to house the engine room. On top of this I assume are these small windows that do not make any sense above the cockpit. 

In front of the bulkhead that they are installing is the keel-box. And in the middle of the next bulkhead there is a tunnel visible for halyards (the blue center line tape goes in it):

HB7.thumb.jpg.31f1a44bcd5331900adea84c3a581cf4.jpg

One thing I cannot figure out. I expect one of the winches to be on top of the keelbox or at least in front of it. The most logical place where the tunnel of bow lines would come in is on the right side of the compression post as the sail-locker hatch is on the left side. But tape-markings, that are the most closest to be it, are on the left side. This does not make any sense as winches are feed commonly from the right side (clockwise)... 

Harken and others make counter-clockwise rotating winches. Charal has some. 

43504046_1879845995383785_1823734811433369600_n.jpg

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5 hours ago, pilot said:

I would put the cockpit floor right on the level where the waterline is to lower the COG. Or maybe an inch lower as the water will be sucked out while moving. Previously I coldn't figure it out - are these thru-hulls visible in the picture cockpit drains or for scoops of ballast water. Now looking the picture they published I understand that the longitudinal line on the floor is marking the wall of the cockpit and these thru-hulls are right on the place where I expect the cockpit to end. So, these are located at the lowest point of the cockpit while heeled. After that there will be another bulkhead to house the engine room. On top of this I assume are these small windows that do not make any sense above the cockpit. 

In front of the bulkhead that they are installing is the keel-box. And in the middle of the next bulkhead there is a tunnel visible for halyards (the blue center line tape goes in it):

HB7.thumb.jpg.31f1a44bcd5331900adea84c3a581cf4.jpg

One thing I cannot figure out. I expect one of the winches to be on top of the keelbox or at least in front of it. The most logical place where the tunnel of bow lines would come in is on the right side of the compression post as the sail-locker hatch is on the left side. But tape-markings, that are the most closest to be it, are on the left side. This does not make any sense as winches are feed commonly from the right side (clockwise)... 

I think that you need to forget about a cockpit in the traditional sense. Why have a cockpit floor at all? Just set everything on the hull inside skin.

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4 hours ago, ctutmark said:

 

43504046_1879845995383785_1823734811433369600_n.jpg

I see this cockpit/cabin/trimming studio, and I love it.  I think it's the right solution.

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1 hour ago, r.finn said:

I see this cockpit/cabin/trimming studio, and I love it.  I think it's the right solution.

I love the innovation. Looking forward to its proving...or otherwise.

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

I love the innovation. Looking forward to its proving...or otherwise.

The above pic with the winches is Charal, not HB 

For me I am liking Charal and Apivia, T. Ruyant's boat will be another intersting one as will the Manuard 60 for Armel Tripon

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18 hours ago, ctutmark said:

Harken and others make counter-clockwise rotating winches. Charal has some. 

Counter clockwise winches are on the market for long time. The winches on the photo are the new "Air winch".

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On 8/26/2019 at 1:08 PM, Chimp too said:

If you are going to use a halyard to get sails out from down below then just forward of the mast is the ideal spot to do it. Sure there is an internal system to move sails fore and aft and the hatches and cut outs in bulkheads have been positioned with this in mind.

And with on off set fore hatch you wouldn't be fighting around the mast.

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On 8/26/2019 at 1:08 PM, Chimp too said:

If you are going to use a halyard to get sails out from down below then just forward of the mast is the ideal spot to do it. Sure there is an internal system to move sails fore and aft and the hatches and cut outs in bulkheads have been positioned with this in mind.

on my tubo'd Open 50 - we winched the headsails out of the 'black pit' as the forehatch was right next to the mast (and stacked them P-S below) each sail weighed at least the same as me and the physical demand of moving them is not to be under estimated

 

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On 8/29/2019 at 8:01 AM, SSolo said:

on my tubo'd Open 50 - we winched the headsails out of the 'black pit' as the forehatch was right next to the mast (and stacked them P-S below) each sail weighed at least the same as me and the physical demand of moving them is not to be under estimated

 

+1 Especially if your not getting any younger

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On 8/31/2019 at 3:45 AM, bosshawg said:

Has HB been out on the water much?  I'm suprised there haven't been more pictures of it under sail.

 

Bugger all at this stage. 

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3 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Redefines the phrase “show us your pink bits”

NOKIA circuit boards? More branding than Principal Sponsor, Hugo Boss. Must have dug pretty deep.

Agree. The old HB's, Doyle sail 'random slashes' was a more badarse look.

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14 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

the sail graphics don't do fk all for the looks, imo.

wrong quote, sorry 321. See above

c3963e4ebca5a3c1a64aa0518b9b36b7_L.jpg

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15 hours ago, tommmzzz said:

Screenshot_20190904-133239_Instagram.jpg

Screenshot_20190904-133237_Instagram.jpg

Screenshot_20190904-133244_Instagram.jpg

Would be interesting to see the next few frames with the inevitable crash landing.

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49 minutes ago, jb5 said:

Would be interesting to see the next few frames with the inevitable crash landing.

And where these three crew members, sitting on top of the solar panels, would land.

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from the image sequence it looks as if they are getting gentle lift off  and landing rather than sudden take off and crash. need more images to see if the assumption is correct

def would love to have a sail and i dont care where they make me sit/stand/grovel

 

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This sailboat racing is going to become more and more of a young man's game.  I can't clench my sphincter hard enough or long enough to even get out to the Solent on a boat like that.  No idea how they'll go all the way around the world.  No wonder they've built it so they stay indoors.

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Wow. Impressive flight. It looks like these crew members are sitting on outside of the lifelines and holding on at those in front.

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Talking of AC75.... when IMOCA looks like this going around the world....what in 5 years . Or Less

69837251_10219997718597857_342352087977295872_n.jpg

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21 minutes ago, huey 2 said:

Talking of AC75.... when IMOCA looks like this going around the world....what in 5 years . Or Less

69837251_10219997718597857_342352087977295872_n.jpgA

Completely impractical

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9 minutes ago, trimfast said:

There is a video on the Facebook account of the FB35 Weapon of Choice. Not sure how to load it here, but it looks wicked.

A video of HB?  I can't find much on Facebook for "FB35 Weapon of Choice".

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21 minutes ago, bosshawg said:

That's pretty smooth!!

fairly good except the touch down at the end which will wipe off a lot of the speed. not unexpected. similar to Charal

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That's incredible, especially for just a couple weeks sailing. They really knocked the design out of the park. 

1 hour ago, BLAK said:

 

 

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36 minutes ago, jb5 said:

fairly good except the touch down at the end which will wipe off a lot of the speed. not unexpected. similar to Charal

Amazing looks absolutely fabulous we live in exiting times 

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Yep.... I bet front foil is lifting forward of center of pressure, which keeps the bum in the water and lifts the bow.

Pretty stable way to get mostly foiling, without loosing steering, and without having crashdowns 

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Just when you thought IMOCA’s weren’t crazy enough. 

Looks like she foils 'more' than Charal, time to see what she can do when the sea isn't flat.

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Interesting comment on HB foils from Sebastien Simon who has the new Arkea-Paprec designed by Juan Kouyoumdjian (designer of Rambler 88, Groupama Volvo etc). The new HB is VPLP design. 

"Alex Thomson is also doing things differently with his foils. They are huge and curved and unlike anything seen on an IMOCA before. Alex was bound to have the biggest foils in the fleet," smiled Sébastien Simon. "We too thought of that option with a constant curve, but in the end we didn't go down that road, as we didn't think it would be the most efficient. We'll see who was right."

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5 hours ago, JoeBleaux said:

That's incredible, especially for just a couple weeks sailing. They really knocked the design out of the park. 

 

Let’s wait and see how it goes when it lines up with the others. 

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4 minutes ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

When can we expect some of the VG boats to be competing against each other?

TJV later this year. Almost all of them. There is a thread on it. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Let’s wait and see how it goes when it lines up with the others. 

Fair enough, I just haven’t seen any of the others fly like Boss was in that video. I wish the video was about 5 seconds longer so we could see how the boat handles the landing. Looks like it might not be to bad with all of the volume in the bow. 

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And here is Apivia. Even more weird design. Getting close to being a multihull yacht.

Does she fly like the boss that you have seen / viewed? Give us your opinion.

Apivia designed by a leading high performance monohull French designer Guillaume Verdier .

A feature of the Verdier designed IMOCA'S is the extremely narrow beam with the forward sections  rolled in at deck level, giving a difference appearance  to that of HUGGO BOSS which hasn't been seen since early days the RORC Rule was introduced. It seems the approach to the design has been to be a  yacht that is a foiling boat, rather than a boat which foils as an option when foiling conditions suit.

This approach it appears places a high reliability on foil structural strength and design should the foil strikes an  submerged object  like a container, a mammal or junk dumping's that is on the increase in our seas and oceans.

Check out and compare  the distance of her mast step from the bow thus allowing some enormous reaching sails to be flown.

Charlie Dain has teamed with Apivia Mutuelle, part Subsidiary of the Groupe Company "Macif" for a racing program to compete in the Veedee. The sailing team is Apivia

Apivia is a design team between Dalin and French designer Guillaume Verdier. The New Zealand based Company Pure Design & Engineering, did most of the structural engineering.

Apivia is a more conservative, conventional hull design than Hugo Boss, which some would say could be a direction too far on a uncertain route taken by foiling short handed In the race of 2017 The Jacques Vabre Transat, Stats recorded after the race record six foilers started the race, with only one finished, and it was a conventional IMOCA 60.

 

It will be interesting to say the least. Probably will have the latest Electronic sail trim telltales and possible HARKENS sail trim auto computer programmed winches systems, which allows the computers to sail the boat with alarms giving the sailor plenty of time to cook, eat, sleep, relax, re energise.

 

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Related image

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Apivia, the new IMOCA60 designed by Guillaume Verdier for Charlie Dahn (FRA) and aimed at the next Vendee Globe after her launching and fit-out at the former U-boat base in Lorient, France - photo © Maxime Horlaville

Apivia, the new IMOCA60 designed by Guillaume Verdier for Charlie Dahn (FRA) and aimed at the next Vendee Globe after her launching and fit-out at the former U-boat base in Lorient, France - photo © Maxime Horlaville

Note the huge for triangle on her.

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4 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:

Doesn't look like much cant on the keel.

Noticed that... looked like no cant and mainsail constantly inverting

2 hours ago, oceancruiser said:

And here is Apivia. Even more weird design. Getting close to being a multihull yacht.

Does she fly like the boss that you have seen / viewed? Give us your opinion.

Apivia designed by a leading high performance monohull French designer Guillaume Verdier .

A feature of the Verdier designed IMOCA'S is the extremely narrow beam with the forward sections  rolled in at deck level, giving a difference appearance  to that of HUGGO BOSS which hasn't been seen since early days the RORC Rule was introduced. It seems the approach to the design has been to be a  yacht that is a foiling boat, rather than a boat which foils as an option when foiling conditions suit.

This approach it appears places a high reliability on foil structural strength and design should the foil strikes an  submerged object  like a container, a mammal or junk dumping's that is on the increase in our seas and oceans.

Check out and compare  the distance of her mast step from the bow thus allowing some enormous reaching sails to be flown.

Charlie Dain has teamed with Apivia Mutuelle, part Subsidiary of the Groupe Company "Macif" for a racing program to compete in the Veedee. The sailing team is Apivia

Apivia is a design team between Dalin and French designer Guillaume Verdier. The New Zealand based Company Pure Design & Engineering, did most of the structural engineering.

Apivia is a more conservative, conventional hull design than Hugo Boss, which some would say could be a direction too far on a uncertain route taken by foiling short handed In the race of 2017 The Jacques Vabre Transat, Stats recorded after the race record six foilers started the race, with only one finished, and it was a conventional IMOCA 60.

 

It will be interesting to say the least. Probably will have the latest Electronic sail trim telltales and possible HARKENS sail trim auto computer programmed winches systems, which allows the computers to sail the boat with alarms giving the sailor plenty of time to cook, eat, sleep, relax, re energise.

 

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Related image

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Image result for APIVIA sailing yacht PHOTOS

Apivia, the new IMOCA60 designed by Guillaume Verdier for Charlie Dahn (FRA) and aimed at the next Vendee Globe after her launching and fit-out at the former U-boat base in Lorient, France - photo © Maxime Horlaville

Apivia, the new IMOCA60 designed by Guillaume Verdier for Charlie Dahn (FRA) and aimed at the next Vendee Globe after her launching and fit-out at the former U-boat base in Lorient, France - photo © Maxime Horlaville

Note the huge for triangle on her.

Fifth pic .... The boat is just an old design turned upside down....how things change......

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9 hours ago, oceancruiser said:

It will be interesting to say the least. Probably will have the latest Electronic sail trim telltales and possible HARKENS sail trim auto computer programmed winches systems, which allows the computers to sail the boat with alarms giving the sailor plenty of time to cook, eat, sleep, relax, re energise.

Didn't think they were allowed stored power for anything but the keel? Pip Hare has one electric winch for use with the keel (no hydro, just ropes :o) and seemed to suggest it was checked (somehow) that it was only used for that purpose.

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Hugo Boss looks to be a foiling with a little more hull out of the water than Charal so will be interesting. Exciting times with the new AC75 out and HB hitting the water. 2 of the best I'd say with both of them going to be hard to beat.

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From memory, no powered winches for sail control side.

Mast position cannot remember if it is fixed by rules, but comparison of photos, they are in similar places.

Seen a few videos now, and she looks a weapon.  But lining up against the others will be proof of the pudding.

And using the last TJV as a metric is IMO, not a good measure, as the majority if not all of the retirement problems for the foilers was linked to new build structures and loads that the foils where producing.  The loads are better understood now, and it seems that the teams have solved the build structure problems in various ways.

I did the stats on the last TJV, I cannot find the file but statistical it is was not an outlier in the number of retirements etc escluding foliers. But here are my notes from then

Quote

Very interesting.  Some stats. Working with a very limited sample of 10 races. 

A standard deviation distribution is 29% to 10%, meaning that 70% of all race held so far, have between 29% to 10% failure rate, the most common failure rate is around the 29% mark (2 x 29% and 1 x 31%)

18% average is not including this race which bumps it up to 22%

Median (middle) of the SD distribution is 20%.

Taking out the foilers that failed brings the average failure in this race to about 20%. So not far off the typical failure rate and under the most common failure rate.

So excluding foilers this TJV was not a outlier in failures rates, with foilers,  yes it was.
 

hv_vs_ap.thumb.jpg.f45e5e30e2b1b1e8b9acb0fcb0ab691e.jpg

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12 hours ago, oceancruiser said:

And here is Apivia. Even more weird design. Getting close to being a multihull yacht.

Does she fly like the boss that you have seen / viewed? Give us your opinion.

Apivia designed by a leading high performance monohull French designer Guillaume Verdier

Nice try for a second post, Oceancruiser, but unless you took all those nice pictures yourself, no cigar.

You see, we normally try to credit the pictures, a common courtesy to the photographer. Besides, we are also missing a picture of your granddaughter's tits, since you are talking about the Rorc rule you must be rather ancient yourself. Or French toast will do, or a picture of tits on a MacGregor, your choice.

Oh, and we all know who Verdier is, and he is not only a leading monohull designer, as Gitana 17 is a multi for instance. Never mind all the other fantasies you are spouting, keep trying, we love a bit of banter here.

 

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Just to make it clear, I am talking about HB being the weapon. I haven't seen enough of Apivia to make any calls either way.

1 hour ago, unclela said:

From memory, no powered winches for sail control side.

Mast position cannot remember if it is fixed by rules, but comparison of photos, they are in similar places.

Seen a few videos now, and she looks a weapon.  But lining up against the others will be proof of the pudding.

And using the last TJV as a metric is IMO, not a good measure, as the majority if not all of the retirement problems for the foilers was linked to new build structures and loads that the foils where producing.  The loads are better understood now, and it seems that the teams have solved the build structure problems in various ways.

I did the stats on the last TJV, I cannot find the file but statistical it is was not an outlier in the number of retirements etc escluding foliers. But here are my notes from then

hv_vs_ap.thumb.jpg.f45e5e30e2b1b1e8b9acb0fcb0ab691e.jpg

 

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Those photos have completely different perspectives, not sure what you're trying to show with the lines...

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1 minute ago, JonRowe said:

Those photos have completely different perspectives, not sure what you're trying to show with the lines...

One is slightly slanted away and one is slightly slanted towards. Once cancels the other approximately. Not perfect but the lines is the same length and the marker is at the same distance. So it showing that the mast is approximately in the same place. All approximately.

 

13 hours ago, oceancruiser said:

Check out and compare  the distance of her mast step from the bow thus allowing some enormous reaching sails to be flown.

Therefore the fore triangle on Apivia is not larger than HB as was insinuated in an above post when comparing the 2 boats.

That was my point. Take it or leave it. :)

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30 minutes ago, unclela said:

One is slightly slanted away and one is slightly slanted towards. Once cancels the other approximately. Not perfect but the lines is the same length and the marker is at the same distance. So it showing that the mast is approximately in the same place. All approximately.

No, you are in the wrong path. Look for example the stern of Apivia. Draw a marker from the middle of the transom to your line. You will understand that different angles do not cancel out, rather multiply the mistake dependent of the perspective.

 

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15 minutes ago, pilot said:

No, you are in the wrong path. Look for example the stern of Apivia. Draw a marker from the middle of the transom to your line. You will understand that different angles do not cancel out, rather multiply the mistake dependent of the perspective.

 

Mast location isn't standardized, mast/deckspreader geometry requirements side. They have been steadily moving aft for a few generations as a design choice.

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12 hours ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Noticed that... looked like no cant and mainsail constantly inverting

Fifth pic .... The boat is just an old design turned upside down....how things change......

Yeah, turning boats upside-down has been happening for years (as you'd know) in multihulls - modern beach cats look something like an inverted Tornado! Buoyancy down low, and water shedding! 

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3 hours ago, jb5 said:

 

Mast location isn't standardized, mast/deckspreader geometry requirements side. They have been steadily moving aft for a few generations as a design choice.

Mast location is governed by the boom not being able to overhang the stern, or then increasing length, and the strict tack position class rules. 

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33 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

Mast location is governed by the boom not being able to overhang the stern, or then increasing length, and the strict tack position class rules. 

Yes agree with you. Looks like you still have 1m of play in the rule for the distance from the aft most point of the boat to the mast step. 7700mm to 8700mm. Isn't the boom rule still open to the designer? I don't see it defined in the standard rig. Could be wrong. 

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1 minute ago, jb5 said:

Yes agree with you. Looks like you still have 1m of play in the rule for the distance from the aft most point of the boat to the mast step. 7700mm to 8700mm. Isn't the boom rule still open to the designer? I don't see it defined in the standard rig. Could be wrong. 

Not all strictly defined, but a pretty small window where it all works 

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8 hours ago, unclela said:

Seen a few videos now, and she looks a weapon.  But lining up against the others will be proof of the pudding.

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7 hours ago, unclela said:

One is slightly slanted away and one is slightly slanted towards. Once cancels the other approximately. Not perfect but the lines is the same length and the marker is at the same distance. So it showing that the mast is approximately in the same place. All approximately.

 

Therefore the fore triangle on Apivia is not larger than HB as was insinuated in an above post when comparing the 2 boats.

That was my point. Take it or leave it. :)

Just for clarification,  he Rule allows quite a bit of variation for the mast step position, as follows:

AC2.2 POSITION OF CHAINPLATES AND MAST STEP

  1. (a)  The mast step shall be positioned between X = 7700 mm and X = 8700 mm (X=0 is the aft most point on the

    hull)

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24 minutes ago, Slim said:

1228299046_sm-Bucephala-albeola-010_LI(2).jpg.da74b58657f51d332267aaf2e18c1a17.jpg

And we know that thing can fly! ;-)

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11 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Nice try for a second post, Oceancruiser, but unless you took all those nice pictures yourself, no cigar.

You see, we normally try to credit the pictures, a common courtesy to the photographer. 

The pictures are free to use from media release news on their website with no such conditions or requests. Perhaps you could post the same remarks / opinion on the posters posts with all the copy photographs on page 4,5,6  It on this site I get the impression despite your post it is not the normal thing. It is obvious they are photos not taken by the posters and the photographer and camera used, date taken, is mostly always stated on the photo itself by clicking on properties I think you will find, accordingly no need to do as you posted. 

Also more photos at 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/ApiviaVoile/photos/?ref=page_internal 

https://www.facebook.com/ApiviaVoile/  

 

Try Heineken.

 

Cheers.

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On 9/6/2019 at 12:34 AM, BLAK said:

 

 

On 9/6/2019 at 6:49 AM, SloopJohnB said:

Doesn't look like much cant on the keel.

 

On 9/6/2019 at 11:31 AM, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Noticed that... looked like no cant and mainsail constantly inverting

Fifth pic .... The boat is just an old design turned upside down....how things change......

I'm starting to wonder if the keel could be fixed. When you look at the way HB is sailing, it is clear that the keel is being used as a foil to help keep her out of the water and perhaps the design of the foils create additional righting force to compensate for the lack of keel cant.

The lack of a canting keel must save a lot of weight in hydraulics and lessen the need for batteries or Gen/fuel to run keel cant.

This might be why there has been no photos inside, so we can't see what's not there and explain this. Maybe it's been painted like this to confuse people into thinking that the canting mechanism is hidden behind rubber gator...

Screenshot_20190804-173853_Chrome.jpg

 

 

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54 minutes ago, hoppy said:

 

 

I'm starting to wonder if the keel could be fixed. When you look at the way HB is sailing, it is clear that the keel is being used as a foil to help keep her out of the water and perhaps the design of the foils create additional righting force to compensate for the lack of keel cant.

The lack of a canting keel must save a lot of weight in hydraulics and lessen the need for batteries or Gen/fuel to run keel cant.

This might be why there has been no photos inside, so we can't see what's not there and explain this. Maybe it's been painted like this to confuse people into thinking that the canting mechanism is hidden behind rubber gator...

Screenshot_20190804-173853_Chrome.jpg

 

 

It looks like there is a Lip where the red meets the black to the naked eye? If there is no canting keel foil damage would rule the boat out unlike Alex's ability to continue racing after he sustained foil damage. If that is the strategy and foil damage is common then Alex's chances of completing the race would be reduced. I think this is his last Vendee so perhaps he wants to win or nothing. I like the concept of reducing weight and hydraulics etc, 

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9 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

It looks like there is a Lip where the red meets the black to the naked eye? If there is no canting keel foil damage would rule the boat out unlike Alex's ability to continue racing after he sustained foil damage. If that is the strategy and foil damage is common then Alex's chances of completing the race would be reduced. I think this is his last Vendee so perhaps he wants to win or nothing. I like the concept of reducing weight and hydraulics etc, 

An all or nothing approach would be to forego the canting to save the weight and hope his foils will survive. Did anyone else lose a foil last time around?

 

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If they were going to lose the canting keel, they'd be back to gen-1 boats. No way that has happened, IMO.

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18 minutes ago, hoppy said:

An all or nothing approach would be to forego the canting to save the weight and hope his foils will survive. Did anyone else lose a foil last time around?

 

The number of boats in the last VG with Canting mechanical failure was also at least two??, so going with a fixed keel removes the risk of the mechanical/hydraulic failures!

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

If they were going to lose the canting keel, they'd be back to gen-1 boats. No way that has happened, IMO.

If they came up with a design that made a non canting foiler faster than a canting foiler, of course they'd dump the canting keel. Not sure if that's the case, but it's fun to speculate whilst we are lacking definitive proof about the boat's design concepts.

 

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The keel with all of its parts (rams, pumps, etc.) is one design.
Hard to see how Alex got an exemption from such a fundamental rule.

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I think it does have a canting keel. But whilst the rules define a can’t mechanism and keel design if used, the keel is not a strict OD. It can be adapted by the team for varying canoe body depth to get to the max draft. Also, if you did go fixed then the hull attachment can be amended.

 I don’t think that is the case here, but I do think it is the next step. Makes AVS much easier to achieve with a lighter, narrow boat. You are 100% depending on the foils, but that is virtually the case already. Only issue is the 180degree test. But with big foils that shouldn’t be too big a barrier.

gradually turning into multihulls with lift replacing buoyancy.

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