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Gabe_nyc

Ok to move J30 traveler to companionway?

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I will NOT be racing this boat.

I am looking for easy day-sailing in WLIS.

A local 1981 J30 would fit the bill nicely but I do NOT want to have the traveler in the middle of the cockpit.

There is a “shelf” at the bottom of the companionway that looks suitable to relocate the traveler to.

Has anybody else done this, and do you all see any problems with doing so?

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I have a spare mast and rudder if the need ever arises. Storing them is a pain but, knowing how much replacements cost, I can’t bear to throw them away 

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Problems.

Main sheet is out of reach of helmsman who is often doing second job as sail trimmer when casual sailing.

It's really a pain to pass through the companion way with the Traveller there. Both under sail and at dock.

Main sheet is now in creating even more conflict when trying to trim jib.

 

 

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I agree with both points.

If racing this would be a problem.

However, I have that exact setup on my current boat and I can kick the sheet in and out of the cam-cleat just fine.

I don’t want to trip / smash my shins on the traveler in current location.

The question is really about: is anything inside that shelf that would not permit me to drill holes and attach things there?

 

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Check to see if the proposed new location is cored or not which would require g-10 rod inserts where the bolts would pass through to the backing plates, to prevent compression damage to the core.

Traveler locations are general not cored.

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30 minutes ago, See Level said:

Check to see if the proposed new location is cored or not […]

Thank you. 

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Consider the impact of any non-class-legal setup on resale before taking out any drills.  It could be expensive to own a J/30 that isn’t able to race; demand is not in that direction so you’d have to lower your asking price.  It could also take a long time to find a buyer, like you, who doesn’t want to race one. It might be worth learning to get past the traveler without hitting it.  

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The area you are considering will be balsa cored, and not built to take the additional vertical loading off the traveler. So install will require some method of removal & solid filling around fasteners and some method of transferring loads to a structure that can absorb them.

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The  new and different loads on the boom concern me.

the attachment of the relatively strong load spreading  traveler bar to a balsa cored  laminate bothers me almost as much as attaching the much more flexible jib and Genoa tracks to the balsa cored deck. 

Sometimes I wonder about why people post shit here. 

 

I especially loved:

G 10 rod inserts.. 

 

How come nobody ever specs 316 stainless fasteners or the thickness and diameter  of the fender washers?

 

oh... and torque settings on the nuts . Gotta have that for a J-30 traveler 

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^^^ You're full of crap gov, Without anti compression inserts thru the core it won't matter what you use for backing plates underneath.

Stick to you're lake boats.

 

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1 hour ago, See Level said:

^^^ You're full of crap gov, Without anti compression inserts thru the core it won't matter what you use for backing plates underneath.

Stick to you're lake boats.

 

My traveller and such are on balsa core. 40 years, no issues. Plywood backing plates. Cabin top. Big boat. Mid-boom sheeting. Ocean crossings.

The compression loading has more to do with how ridiculously one torques the bolts are than sailing loads. Enough to keep the water out is enough.

But moving a traveller to the companionway must be the worst possible idea.

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4 hours ago, See Level said:

^^^ You're full of crap gov, Without anti compression inserts thru the core it won't matter what you use for backing plates underneath.

Stick to you're lake boats.

 

You are lake boats?? Huh?? 

How do you suppose the Genoa tracks are mounted?? Not the toe rail tracks... the deck mounted tracks.

Sure there is compression but a well spread load on a balsa core laminate does just fine 

besides... isn’t SA all about giving brutally honest answers?? 

The really  nuttso idea is moving the traveler from a perfect location to a silly place 

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8 hours ago, PaulK said:

Consider the impact of any non-class-legal setup on resale before taking out any drills.  It could be expensive to own a J/30 that isn’t able to race [...]

Thank you Paul.

In my mind, the T could always be moved back to its original location and it would not be a big deal to fill up a few holes.

i was frankly hoping that somebody would have done already, but if everybody agrees that it’s a terrible idea I can simply cross J30s off my list and move on.

Thank you all for your help and your opinions.

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Since this is the 2nd thread about taking a J boat and cruising it (the J22 also), J boats are not built like tanks and most were/are raced regularly meaning they get stressed more than the average cruiser - just something to consider when buying one. They tend to hold their value because there are OD classes. Gouv can testify to what it takes to keep them sea worthy, and since the vast majority of my sailing has been racing I can guarantee that we push them to the limit and beyond. There are many boats that never formed active classes and probably have a lot less miles on them thus better condition - that's my .02 (subject to inflation)

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

You are lake boats?? Huh?? 

How do you suppose the Genoa tracks are mounted?? Not the toe rail tracks... the deck mounted tracks.

Sure there is compression but a well spread load on a balsa core laminate does just fine 

besides... isn’t SA all about giving brutally honest answers?? 

The really  nuttso idea is moving the traveler from a perfect location to a silly place 

Relax, it's spell check on my phone with a cracked screen.

You can get away without decoring for Genoa tracks on smaller boats because the load is about a 3rd of the main sheet. Don't try it on  higher loaded hardware.

It's not my job to decide if it's a stupid idea or not, the op came asking if there were problems with doing it.

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

The really nuttso idea is moving the traveler from a perfect location to a silly place 

Your Mileage May Vary (:-)

I am happy to accept that the J30 is not a good candidate for a day-sailer.

However, I feel it would have been equally “nutso” to attemp to make a go of a J30 as a non-racing craft with the T just sitting there grinning and biding it’s time until it can collect it’s pound of flesh off unwary shins.

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6 hours ago, Troglodytarum said:

3.  Leave poor j30 alonE

Thank you, yes.

Will be doing that but even more comprehensively by simply not buying a J30 to begin with.

All the best,

Gabe

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On 8/4/2019 at 8:41 AM, Gabe_nyc said:

Thank you, yes.

Will be doing that but even more comprehensively by simply not buying a J30 to begin with.

All the best,

Gabe

thank you.... was just gonna add that if you make this alteration to your boat, you pic up a couple   extra booms to go along with it.

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I will point out that you are highly unlikely to get endorsement of modifying a j boat in a j boat forum, even though many are long past their expiry dates for One design racing.

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OP, I wonder if you are looking at one of the late model 30s with the cockpit combings and the traveler spanning above the cockpit floor. The first 400+ boats have a large bridge deck with the traveler track mounted on top of the rear edge of that. It really is in the perfect location - especially with a windward sheeting car. Driving and doing main trim at the same time is a joy. You have backstay, trav and mainsheet all within easy reach of the hand that's not on the tiller extension. 

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Rico nailed it. The location of the traveler location on the J30 is actually pretty conducive to cruising.  While at first glance, you might think it blocks the companionway, it's actually far enough aft, that even when centered, there's plenty of room to pass by. And the taught sheet makes for a good hand hold when  coming back on deck. 

The J30 makes a great daysailer/cruiser. Plenty of room and accommodations down below. Not easily overpowered during normal weekend sailing conditions. The small fore triangle make sail handling less strenuous. And even flying a #3,  you'll be faster than most 30 foot cruisers under full sail; at least in this price range.

The small cockpit will be an issue if you plan on going out with more that four.

Other than the small cockpit, my only issue with the J30 is its looks. The wedge-shaped house just doesn't work for me.

Edit: After rereading the OP, I'm a little confused. Isn't the traveler currently located on the aft edge of the bridge deck, or "shelf" as you say? It sounds like you want to put it right where it belongs.

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Yeah - rereading too, I see OP said a 1981 model. The traveler track on that should be at the aft edge of the ~20" wide bridge deck -- that far from the companionway. I don't understand the "shelf" description. 

It is a tight cockpit but nice for two or three people on a daysail. Use a smaller headsail to depower and that makes tacks so much easier -- effortless really, without much speed penalty.

Racing in breeze above 10 kts with genoas, you need a full crew (5-7). 

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On 8/3/2019 at 7:55 PM, See Level said:

^^^ You're full of crap gov, Without anti compression inserts thru the core it won't matter what you use for backing plates underneath.

Stick to you're lake boats.

 

Every track and fitting on a J30 is through cored material without ANY compression inserts from the factory! 

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53 minutes ago, Squalamax said:

Every track and fitting on a J30 is through cored material without ANY compression inserts from the factory! 

As are the fittings on an S2 9.1, and a Bene First 30E, and a Pearson Flyer, amongst many others....end grain balsa has great compressive strength, esp compared to foam cores

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5 hours ago, Squalamax said:

Every track and fitting on a J30 is through cored material without ANY compression inserts from the factory! 

There's no core in the Traveller trough.

Traveller2.jpg

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That’s the ‘84 + version....though it looks like the earlier ones with trav on aft end of bridge deck also run in a trough.

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23 hours ago, See Level said:

There's no core in the Traveller trough.

Traveller2.jpg

Should have clarified, “ALMOST all tracks and fittings” are bolted trough balsa core. 

The genoa tracks, primaries, secondaries and mooring cleat are all bolted through balsa core without any compression sleeve from the factory. All high load fittings. 

The J29 frac rig(which has almost identical sail plan to J30) has the main traveller bolted through the cockpit seats through balsa core with no compression sleeves from the factory. 

My point being it’s done ALL the time with zero issue(other than water intrusion into the core eventually) 

When I rebedded my J29 deck fittings, I over bored and filled with epoxy all fitting penetrations.  This was done to prevent water intrusion and not because the core was being crushed from compression. All fitting penetrations had made it 30+ years in the factory configuration just fine(I’m sure they were rebedded many times over to keep water out though) 

 

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