Miffy

Mini sailor lost at sea

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Thanks for posting......Always Sad .   

Yes and also to acknowledge Marie in 1991,    MAP

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Just awful, 57 years old and still going strong in a mini, then ending like that. Had to breath deeply, respect.

Apparently his AIS stopped transmitting, which alerted his family. Way too late I am afraid. A PLB or AIS MOB, or better a combined one (once that is approved) in his pocket or lifejacket, would have given him a better chance.

Here a sad picture:

le-mini-n-975-a-ete-remorque-jusqu-a-ouessant-par-le-canot_4733623_640x360p.jpg.a9b1b642f94f4d1e9a5bb71f0cb314b6.jpg

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/mini-un-maxi-650-retrouve-vide-son-skipper-porte-disparu-04-08-2019-12354411.php

 

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Was he wearing a harness and tether? 

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9 hours ago, Foolish said:

Was he wearing a harness and tether? 

Dunno, you should ask him.

8 hours ago, inneedofadvice said:

Odd that the boat was found with the sails down unless the people recovering it did that.

One would assume so.

 

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1 hour ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Dunno, you should ask him.

One would assume so.

 

That's a bit tasteless FB. Even for Anarchy. 

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

That's a bit tasteless FB. Even for Anarchy. 

I know, but so was the question, if I may say so, even if it was not meant to be.

I paid my respect properly and from the heart in post #4, Foolish did not do so and just asked a senseless question. That made me react that way, apart from me being a prick in that respect. A sense of morbid humor quite common amongst my peers actually and I am sorry if I offended anyone.

 

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36 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

I know, but so was the question, if I may say so, even if it was not meant to be.

I paid my respect properly and from the heart in post #4, Foolish did not do so and just asked a senseless question. That made me react that way, apart from me being a prick in that respect. A sense of morbid humor quite common amongst my peers actually and I am sorry if I offended anyone.

 

Was a dumb question by him but I rate you better than that.! No harm done mate. Time for a beer anyway.

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I long for the day when  every singlehander wears a tether all the time, and terrible incidents like this don't happen any more.

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You know any details that would suggest this was the issue? Can you folks with your own agendas and "edgy humor" just keep it to yourself? 

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On 8/10/2019 at 12:38 AM, Foolish said:

I long for the day when  every singlehander wears a tether all the time, and terrible incidents like this don't happen any more.

This has been debated long and hard - here (Anarchy) and elsewhere.

Very few (basically no-one) would have the physical ability to to pull themselves back on board a moving boat, let alone an IMOCA or Mini Transat type of performance, particularly wearing the modern clothing kit that the Irish Sea/Western approaches calls for.

The point being that many Singlehanders do not wish to be Tethered.

Lifejackets are another debate entirely.

I salute and respect all those that make their own choices. My deepest sympathies to their families whose suffering will be much longer, but possibly tempered by the fact that their loved ones were doing something they were passionate about and probably communicated the possibilities to these family members prior to departure.

Stay classy anarchists.

Sail on with Fair Winds Stephane.

 

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Very few (basically no-one) would have the physical ability to to pull themselves back on board a moving boat, let alone an IMOCA or Mini Transat type of performance, particularly wearing the modern clothing kit that the Irish Sea/Western approaches calls for.

Fortunately that's not correct, at least for a MIni.  Here is a few paragraphs from my Singlehanded Tips book:

·         Craig Horsfield fell off of his Mini Zero during the 2009 Pornichet Select, a 280 mile race off the French Coast.  This is a three day race near shore and crossing the fishing grounds, meaning that sleep is virtually impossible.  Undoubtedly this added to the problem. “It was not a good experience.  The whole thing happened so ridiculously slowly in my mind. It seemed to take forever. You’re getting towed along on the leeward side. You try to get back on your boat and you just can’t.” 

 

It started on the afternoon of the third day, in a beautiful 10 knot breeze. Craig walked up to the bow to clear a line before setting the spinnaker.  The boat rolled slightly and he fell overboard.  “The jib was down because I was setting up for the spinnaker.  I thought it was there and you instinctively lean on the sail.  I just fell overboard.”

 

Being dragged along, halfway down the starboard side with his tether caught on the shroud base, Craig’s first act was to tuck his knee up to his chest and pull his boots off.  They were completely full of water. Craig actually bought boots too large with just such an incident in mind.  After this, his life jacket had inflated and was limiting arm reach.  He used his knife to puncture and deflate it. 

 

Craig realized that if he unclipped his tether and was not able to hold on to a stanchion, he was lost.  He was wearing an integrated Spinlock life Vest with harness and crotch straps.  He could feel the vest pulling up and is quite sure that the crotch straps kept it on. 

 

Eventually, the boat rolled slightly and he was able to get a leg on board.   With tremendous effort he pushed himself up over the lifelines.  He estimates the event took ten minutes in total.  That’s ten minutes of dragging beside the boat. He always keeps a sealed bag and quickly changed into warm clothing.

I've gone singlehanded sailing more than 1,200 times, and I wear my harness every single time. I look at the same as wearing a seat belt in my car or a helmet on my motorcycle.  Just a normal part of the gear. 

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So, sailing slowly in light winds (broad reaching in ten knots without a headsail on a 21 footer,) it took him ten minutes during which time he used a knife to deflate his life jacket. 

I don’t think this a good example of what you are trying to prove. It’s actually an example of the opposite, it’s damn hard to get back on a boat by yourself and Craig was very lucky.

 

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Exactly. A 21 foot boat known for its vanishingly low freeboard. And I'm not aware of any second example. This was the exception that proves the rule. 

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Craig was very lucky.

Seat belts reduce the risk of death by 45%, so a person is lucky if his seat belt saves his life.  Motorcycle helmets reduce the risk of death by 37%, so a person is lucky if his motorcycle helmet saves his life.  I don't think the sample size is large enough to provide stats for singlehanded tethers.  Fortunately, a person who is wearing a tether can choose to cut it.  A person who isn't, doesn't get that choice. 

Nowadays, most autopilots come with a remote control.  I keep mine on my harness, so with a couple of button presses I can point the boat into the wind. 

(But the main reason that I use a remote is to apply the second by second course corrections to maintain maximum speed.)

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 1:33 AM, Boink said:

This has been debated long and hard - here (Anarchy) and elsewhere.

Very few (basically no-one) would have the physical ability to to pull themselves back on board a moving boat, let alone an IMOCA or Mini Transat type of performance, particularly wearing the modern clothing kit that the Irish Sea/Western approaches calls for.

The point being that many Singlehanders do not wish to be Tethered.

Lifejackets are another debate entirely.

I salute and respect all those that make their own choices. My deepest sympathies to their families whose suffering will be much longer, but possibly tempered by the fact that their loved ones were doing something they were passionate about and probably communicated the possibilities to these family members prior to departure.

Stay classy anarchists.

Sail on with Fair Winds Stephane.

 

Agree its difficult or impossible to climb back on for many in sporty conditions, but what about fixed transom ladders or soft ladders which are deployable from the water? 
We had a short line hanging over the side which would bring a ladder or steps down off the deck 

 

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On 8/13/2019 at 10:54 AM, Bruno said:

Moral hazard should never be underestimated. 

Yes. It's huge - but also life shortening I suspect.

Has there ever been a drowning on the end of a tether? I guess you'd need a body to answer that one, conclusively. 

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3 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Has there ever been a drowning on the end of a tether? I guess you'd need a body to answer that one, conclusively. 

MAIB Report: Person overboard while tethered to racing yacht Lion

"... the skipper of the yacht Lion fell overboard and drowned while still attached to the yacht by means of a tether connected to his lifejacket harness ... It took the crew 16 minutes to recover the skipper to the deck, where he was pronounced dead"

 

 

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1 hour ago, Virgulino Ferreira said:

MAIB Report: Person overboard while tethered to racing yacht Lion

"... the skipper of the yacht Lion fell overboard and drowned while still attached to the yacht by means of a tether connected to his lifejacket harness ... It took the crew 16 minutes to recover the skipper to the deck, where he was pronounced dead"

 

 

Fascinating reading. If 4 crew members couldn't recover the tethered skipper, what chance for him as a solo sailor?

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I'm just wondering why you couldn't have a light weight rope style ladder somewhere on the boat ready to pull down? Outside of racing they find many unmanned boats with scratch marks everywhere. Would be very traumatic to go this way. 

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The ladder won't work because it requires that either:

  • Your tether is exactly the right length to drag you so that the ladder is within reach, tangle your tether around anything as you fall in and it's useless; or
  • You fall free from the yacht but can swim to the ladder, which requires you fall in naked and even then, Olympic Gold Record times for the 100m Freestyle are a little under 0.25 knots - you haven't a chance

 

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31 minutes ago, Moonduster said:

The ladder won't work because it requires that either:

  • Your tether is exactly the right length to drag you so that the ladder is within reach, tangle your tether around anything as you fall in and it's useless; or
  • You fall free from the yacht but can swim to the ladder, which requires you fall in naked and even then, Olympic Gold Record times for the 100m Freestyle are a little under 0.25 knots - you haven't a chance

 

Yeah so many factors, you can be lucky one day but not the next. I went overboard during a race once grabbed a sheet that was dangling out the back and the boys pulled me in. But on your own would be a different story. very sad but it's happening quite regularly

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Minis have more rules regarding the back of the boat, and with NKE remote onboard there are options instead of being dragged along.

In the mini class more people fell overboard and were able to climb back onboard then died being dragged along.

The only weird thing I can see is the solar panel is damaged.

And against a stroke etc nothing helps.

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I've just posted a question about rope style ladders in Gear Anarchy.

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17 hours ago, Moonduster said:

You fall free from the yacht but can swim to the ladder, which requires you fall in naked and even then, Olympic Gold Record times for the 100m Freestyle are a little under 0.25 knots - you haven't a chance 

I don't think I could catch up to a sailboat in anything but a dead calm, but this does underestimate swimming speed a bit. The world record for the 100 m is about 47 seconds. That's a bit over 4 knots.

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6 hours ago, Moonduster said:

Ugh ... yes. 0.25 hours per nautical mile ... 4 knots. Naked.

An article I looked up showed the fastest man in a 50 meter pool, over a mile achieved 5.1 mph. Fastest woman 3.5 mph (2012). The fastest woman in open water over 1 mile = 3 mph.

i.e. 2.7 knots. 

Even when i was relatively fit and youngish guy, in my mid twenties (so about 40 years ago) I doubt I could beat the world's fastest female swimmer, even if their speed was over 1 mile, and I somehow only had to swim a hundred yards to get back on board.

And unless you can grab something as soon as you go over, you will be past the stern before you know it, and you need to swim faster than the boat to get back.

 

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12 hours ago, KONeill said:

I don't think I could catch up to a sailboat in anything but a dead calm, but this does underestimate swimming speed a bit. The world record for the 100 m is about 47 seconds. That's a bit over 4 knots.

Olympic swimmers are very different from you and me.  

A very good swimmer (not Olympian) in foul weather gear would be setting records to swim at more than 3 knots for 50 meters.  Add a life jacket and lumpy waves and that goes down dramatically. 

For what it's worth:  I've had the mis-fortune/good luck to pull four POBs out of the water and have been pulled out once.  All the boats, ranging from a J-24 to a 54' IOR race boat the boat had more freeboard than a mini.  Not a huge sample size, but more than one very strong and healthy mini-sailor.

*  In all cases, the boat was fully crewed

*  In all cases the POB was fully clothed and foul weather geared up and alert and physically able, except in my case, when I was barely conscious

*  In three cases, the boat was an open-transom design and that greatly helped

*  In 3 cases a non-inflatable life jacket greatly helped.  An all cases, a  non-inflatable life jacket would have helped

*  Lines over the side (lazy sheets) kept the "fallee" close to the boat in three cases

*  In no case was a tether involved

*  In no case was a life-sling involved or deployed.  

*  In all cases a tether would have had to be released to get the person on board. 

I am certain that in no case was the person who fell over likely to get on board by themselves. After swimming over the side, which I've done countless times, popping up from underwater and grabbing the rail or the pushpit and getting a leg up works great.  That is pretty much impossible in foulweather gear or with a life jacket on.   Hardest of all would be with an inflatable life jacket.   I have tried fabric and rope ladders and they can work but they often have curved under the hull to make climbing difficult in a lump. 

We currently have a fast off-shore boat capable of holding 20 knots plus consistently.  It is also too fast has too narrow foils to be carefully sailed up to a person in the water in breeze with the main up.  The crew has had much discussion about safety and the general consensus is that tethers should ALWAYS be short enough to NOT let the person hit the water with more than their feet.  That a PLB is pretty useless in our cold waters and that a personal light and an AIS gives some improved chance getting back to the swimmer.  And that the primary person contributing to a successful rescue is the "pointer-at-the-swimmer".  

Just my two cents. 

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Olympic swimmers are very different from you and me.  

A very good swimmer (not Olympian) in foul weather gear would be setting records to swim at more than 3 knots for 50 meters.  Add a life jacket and lumpy waves and that goes down dramatically. 

For what it's worth:  I've had the mis-fortune/good luck to pull four POBs out of the water and have been pulled out once.  All the boats, ranging from a J-24 to a 54' IOR race boat the boat had more freeboard than a mini.  Not a huge sample size, but more than one very strong and healthy mini-sailor.

*  In all cases, the boat was fully crewed

*  In all cases the POB was fully clothed and foul weather geared up and alert and physically able, except in my case, when I was barely conscious

*  In three cases, the boat was an open-transom design and that greatly helped

*  In 3 cases a non-inflatable life jacket greatly helped.  An all cases, a  non-inflatable life jacket would have helped

*  Lines over the side (lazy sheets) kept the "fallee" close to the boat in three cases

*  In no case was a tether involved

*  In no case was a life-sling involved or deployed.  

*  In all cases a tether would have had to be released to get the person on board. 

I am certain that in no case was the person who fell over likely to get on board by themselves. After swimming over the side, which I've done countless times, popping up from underwater and grabbing the rail or the pushpit and getting a leg up works great.  That is pretty much impossible in foulweather gear or with a life jacket on.   Hardest of all would be with an inflatable life jacket.   I have tried fabric and rope ladders and they can work but they often have curved under the hull to make climbing difficult in a lump. 

We currently have a fast off-shore boat capable of holding 20 knots plus consistently.  It is also too fast has too narrow foils to be carefully sailed up to a person in the water in breeze with the main up.  The crew has had much discussion about safety and the general consensus is that tethers should ALWAYS be short enough to NOT let the person hit the water with more than their feet.  That a PLB is pretty useless in our cold waters and that a personal light and an AIS gives some improved chance getting back to the swimmer.  And that the primary person contributing to a successful rescue is the "pointer-at-the-swimmer".  

Just my two cents. 

Interesting and useful commentary, LS.

Just to clarify my understanding, from your experience, are you recommending manual/inflatable PFD's Vs auto-inflatable PFD's for use with a tether? 

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Interesting and useful commentary, LS.

Just to clarify my understanding, from your experience, are you recommending manual/inflatable PFD's Vs auto-inflatable PFD's for use with a tether? 

From my experience, a well fitting non-inflatable pfd with a separate harness/tether connection is the best.  The sport life jackets are very comfortable and wearable.  I've seen too many auto-inflates go off while hiking and the crew struggling to get back under the lifelines.   When I got clobbered overboard, I regained consciousness about 3 feet below the surface and popped up with my good old non-inflatable jacket, so a manual-inflate wouldn't have helped me much, but I'd still take that over an auto-inflate for regular wear.  

Great videos are out there from the Volvo of crew's auto-inflates going off due to bow spray.  I wonder how many re-pack kits they brought along.

On a separate note:  My crew just bought 12 of the latest model Mustang offshore-approved inflatable pfd's for my crew.  They were very comfortable in the store, but  they are the most uncomfortable, annoying pfds ever in real life.  I've got 6 that will never be worn again after their first event.  The neck hole was too small to put the jacket on on without help pulling your hood and collar through.  It was too small for many heads to get through without scratching.  The design made lying down on your back basically impossible or leaning up against the cabin/cockpit very uncomfortable.  The straps, particularly the crotch strap continually loosened up so there was a loop dangling down catching on stuff.   So, no one wore their crotch strap, and they got left below when people had to get on deck in a hurry in rain or spray.  

Well, I hope I don't get a call from Mustang.

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

From my experience, a well fitting non-inflatable pfd with a separate harness/tether connection is the best.  The sport life jackets are very comfortable and wearable.  I've seen too many auto-inflates go off while hiking and the crew struggling to get back under the lifelines.   When I got clobbered overboard, I regained consciousness about 3 feet below the surface and popped up with my good old non-inflatable jacket, so a manual-inflate wouldn't have helped me much, but I'd still take that over an auto-inflate for regular wear.  

Great videos are out there from the Volvo of crew's auto-inflates going off due to bow spray.  I wonder how many re-pack kits they brought along.

On a separate note:  My crew just bought 12 of the latest model Mustang offshore-approved inflatable pfd's for my crew.  They were very comfortable in the store, but  they are the most uncomfortable, annoying pfds ever in real life.  I've got 6 that will never be worn again after their first event.  The neck hole was too small to put the jacket on on without help pulling your hood and collar through.  It was too small for many heads to get through without scratching.  The design made lying down on your back basically impossible or leaning up against the cabin/cockpit very uncomfortable.  The straps, particularly the crotch strap continually loosened up so there was a loop dangling down catching on stuff.   So, no one wore their crotch strap, and they got left below when people had to get on deck in a hurry in rain or spray.  

Well, I hope I don't get a call from Mustang.

Many thanks.

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13 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

From my experience, a well fitting non-inflatable pfd with a separate harness/tether connection is the best.  The sport life jackets are very comfortable and wearable.  I've seen too many auto-inflates go off while hiking and the crew struggling to get back under the lifelines.   When I got clobbered overboard, I regained consciousness about 3 feet below the surface and popped up with my good old non-inflatable jacket, so a manual-inflate wouldn't have helped me much, but I'd still take that over an auto-inflate for regular wear.  

Great videos are out there from the Volvo of crew's auto-inflates going off due to bow spray.  I wonder how many re-pack kits they brought along.

On a separate note:  My crew just bought 12 of the latest model Mustang offshore-approved inflatable pfd's for my crew.  They were very comfortable in the store, but  they are the most uncomfortable, annoying pfds ever in real life.  I've got 6 that will never be worn again after their first event.  The neck hole was too small to put the jacket on on without help pulling your hood and collar through.  It was too small for many heads to get through without scratching.  The design made lying down on your back basically impossible or leaning up against the cabin/cockpit very uncomfortable.  The straps, particularly the crotch strap continually loosened up so there was a loop dangling down catching on stuff.   So, no one wore their crotch strap, and they got left below when people had to get on deck in a hurry in rain or spray.  

Well, I hope I don't get a call from Mustang.

Thanks Left, that was really interesting. 

I often sleep wearing pfd and tether, so how comfortable it is to wear all the time is a big deal for me. I just find I fall asleep quicker and sleep better fully kitted out, weird I know. I changed pillows a fair bit till I found small rectangular ones that work really well with a pfd.around your neck.

I had an auto inflate, and it only lasted one race, I didn't like the auto bit. I do worry about going overboard unconscious, but I'm skinny, and just wearing wet weathers with the cuffs I tend to float like a cork. Wet weathers don't do much in turning your face up though. If I'm solo, I am extra conscious of the traveller and mainsheet, I always step over it to windward for example. I had one experience getting pinned by the traveller unlocked , I have zero doubt it would've tossed me overboard if I wasn't crouched over (I hit the side of the cockpit and the lifelines) 

I sill prefer a manual, just have to be extra careful.     

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3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Olympic swimmers are very different from you and me.  

A very good swimmer (not Olympian) in foul weather gear would be setting records to swim at more than 3 knots for 50 meters.  Add a life jacket and lumpy waves and that goes down dramatically. 

For what it's worth:  I've had the mis-fortune/good luck to pull four POBs out of the water and have been pulled out once.  All the boats, ranging from a J-24 to a 54' IOR race boat the boat had more freeboard than a mini.  Not a huge sample size, but more than one very strong and healthy mini-sailor.

*  In all cases, the boat was fully crewed

*  In all cases the POB was fully clothed and foul weather geared up and alert and physically able, except in my case, when I was barely conscious

*  In three cases, the boat was an open-transom design and that greatly helped

*  In 3 cases a non-inflatable life jacket greatly helped.  An all cases, a  non-inflatable life jacket would have helped

*  Lines over the side (lazy sheets) kept the "fallee" close to the boat in three cases

*  In no case was a tether involved

*  In no case was a life-sling involved or deployed.  

*  In all cases a tether would have had to be released to get the person on board. 

I am certain that in no case was the person who fell over likely to get on board by themselves. After swimming over the side, which I've done countless times, popping up from underwater and grabbing the rail or the pushpit and getting a leg up works great.  That is pretty much impossible in foulweather gear or with a life jacket on.   Hardest of all would be with an inflatable life jacket.   I have tried fabric and rope ladders and they can work but they often have curved under the hull to make climbing difficult in a lump. 

We currently have a fast off-shore boat capable of holding 20 knots plus consistently.  It is also too fast has too narrow foils to be carefully sailed up to a person in the water in breeze with the main up.  The crew has had much discussion about safety and the general consensus is that tethers should ALWAYS be short enough to NOT let the person hit the water with more than their feet.  That a PLB is pretty useless in our cold waters and that a personal light and an AIS gives some improved chance getting back to the swimmer.  And that the primary person contributing to a successful rescue is the "pointer-at-the-swimmer".  

Just my two cents. 

I still argue with myself about tethers, especially when solo (or double handed for that matter, which is pretty much solo sailing in shifts) . I have a crew MOB transmitter I wear that I often wonder if this is a better and safer option, the idea being if you go over when under motor, the helm goes to lock and the boat start doing circles, or under sail the boat will go into irons. 

Trying to swim after a boat in irons does not sound like fun, but getting drowned by a tether definitely sucks just as much. To date I wear both, I'm still out to lunch on it.   

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13 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

Thanks Left, that was really interesting. 

I often sleep wearing pfd and tether, so how comfortable it is to wear all the time is a big deal for me. I just find I fall asleep quicker and sleep better fully kitted out, weird I know. I changed pillows a fair bit till I found small rectangular ones that work really well with a pfd.around your neck.

I had an auto inflate, and it only lasted one race, I didn't like the auto bit. I do worry about going overboard unconscious, but I'm skinny, and just wearing wet weathers with the cuffs I tend to float like a cork. Wet weathers don't do much in turning your face up though. If I'm solo, I am extra conscious of the traveller and mainsheet, I always step over it to windward for example. I had one experience getting pinned by the traveller unlocked , I have zero doubt it would've tossed me overboard if I wasn't crouched over (I hit the side of the cockpit and the lifelines) 

I sill prefer a manual, just have to be extra careful.     

The Mustang model we bought have a single central "pod" high in the middle of the back, so when you lay down to rest or laid back against the cockpit sides you have a hard roll that tilts you one way or the other.  Very annoying and hard to brace against.  

Going to sleep in full gear was a recipe for waking up soggy from body moisture until good breathable gear came along.  Even now I always unzip top and bottom all the way.  

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On 8/14/2019 at 6:59 PM, Sailbydate said:

Has there ever been a drowning on the end of a tether? I guess you'd need a body to answer that one, conclusively. 

You shouldn't run your jacklines all the way to the transom. Your jacklines should terminate far enough forward that you wouldn't be dragging behind the boat if you went over while clipped into a jackline. You should have solid attachment points -- not jacklines -- for clipping in aft of the companionway.

In memory of Harvey Schlasky who died in 1999 DH Farallones Race being towed behind his boat by his harness inspite of his inflated PFD and crew attempting to slow boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, sleddog said:

You shouldn't run your jacklines all the way to the transom. Your jacklines should terminate far enough forward that you wouldn't be dragging behind the boat if you went over while clipped into a jackline. You should have solid attachment points -- not jacklines -- for clipping in aft of the companionway.

In memory of Harvey Schlasky who died in 1999 DH Farallones Race being towed behind his boat by his harness inspite of his inflated PFD and crew attempting to slow boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your gonna have very short jacklines on a Mini, if you go over Whether behind or beside, you’re going to get towed.

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This was sad news, I didn't know him personally but the fleet is pretty close nit :(

Safety wise mini jack stays normally run from the top of the cockpit (by the hatch) to the pad eye at the front for the baby stay, class rules forbid them to be attached to the pulpit and pushpit. Class rules also require us to have a method of getting back on board, some have a ladder in a bag, most use a piece of dyneema with bungee spliced in (to retract it) that can be grabbed and used as a step onto the rear. I can say it works in the marina but have obviously not used it at sea :/ 

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On 8/18/2019 at 12:29 PM, sleddog said:

You shouldn't run your jacklines all the way to the transom. Your jacklines should terminate far enough forward that you wouldn't be dragging behind the boat if you went over while clipped into a jackline. You should have solid attachment points -- not jacklines -- for clipping in aft of the companionway.

In memory of Harvey Schlasky who died in 1999 DH Farallones Race being towed behind his boat by his harness inspite of his inflated PFD and crew attempting to slow boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

G’day Sled,

I get and agree with the sidedeck jacklines terminating forrard, but a minor point, for me jacklines are no different to hard points in the cockpit, it all comes down to the location. 

I have jacklines run as a rectangle grid in the centre of the cockpit, mainly due to the beam and depth of the cockpit. The position is laid to bring you up short of the lifelines, and it’s  much easier and safer for crew movement than just hardpoints.

Having said that, I do have a dodgy location jackline, and that’s one I ran between the two helm positions , this is only a few feet off the transom. But it’s an addition to the hard point at each helm, with a 2 point harness your main tether clips on to the hard point, and the jackline is the second. The idea is I’m still clipped on as I move between helms , then reattach to the other hardpoint when you get there. 

Cheers,

SB

 

 

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why don't the minis run MOB detection to their autopilot?  May need a manual trigger if you're tethered on.

 

Seems the solution here is have the boat go head to wind, or tack, on MOB.  Then at least your not being dragged.

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2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

why don't the minis run MOB detection to their autopilot?  May need a manual trigger if you're tethered on.

 

Seems the solution here is have the boat go head to wind, or tack, on MOB.  Then at least your not being dragged.

And that is why most of the fleet uses NKE instruments, they have a solo mode where the boat goes head to wind if the pilot remote gets too far away from the boat, I believe 50 meters but that is from memory.   In the example cited up thread where Craig fell off, he was using Raymarine instruments. 

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1 hour ago, ctutmark said:

And that is why most of the fleet uses NKE instruments, they have a solo mode where the boat goes head to wind if the pilot remote gets too far away from the boat, I believe 50 meters but that is from memory.   In the example cited up thread where Craig fell off, he was using Raymarine instruments. 

Yep, just don't do what I did and let the battery run down in the wearable transmitter. The unexpected hard turn is unsettling the first time it happens and you're not expecting it. :ph34r:

An interesting side issue is you have to send the transmitters back to NKE for battery replacement. Whist I get why, it kinda sucks, I'd much rather do it myself. But the reasons being to accomodate the lowest common denominator of intelligence, I am sure, is why they don't let you. 

 

 

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I thought the point of a tether was to stop you going overboard in the first place - on mine if I use the short leg it won't let me go over the side, it's too short.

I imagine this is rather harder to set up on a mini though

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On 8/18/2019 at 12:29 PM, sleddog said:

 

In memory of Harvey Schlasky who died in 1999 DH Farallones Race being towed behind his boat by his harness inspite of his inflated PFD and crew attempting to slow boat.

 

That’s mad! He had harness, had inflation, had crew, but still drowned? Or died from another cause? 

 

and yes open transom has gotta help  

but then the required fence at the back could be more of a hindrance in remounting  

they’re are so many conflicting scenarios  and best solutions eg self inflating v non self inflating, short tether v  long tether v no tether. 

Can’t really see how your point of being next to the boat rather than behind it would have greatly helped. 

How come not throwing the boat into the wind not stop it?

I guess a solo sailing boat with a separation device could be set up to steer htw in case of seperation . Does that exist? What about a boat under motor? 

Besides what’s the likelihood of going over the side and the tether not getting caught on a stay, a staunchion top etc  

That brings the next cluster fuck to mind. The tether going up and over the fence. 

We just don’t really set up or practice the scenario, do we?

“Ehhh. It won’t happen. We’ll work it out. We’ve got the required equipment.If your times up...”  So dumb. 

So many drownings. 

Chalk and cheese difference between solo and not. Hmmm. Makes you think.

And we’re not just talking about solo  ocean  racing. A short delivery. A long cruise. Crew asleep. Night time. Heavy weather.   A dash from mooring to club to pick up crew while  rigging up on the way. Or vice versa and oops tripped over-goneski.  

You need some good luck.  I reckon us boaties use plenty. Unfortunately it ain’t always the case. Recent cat capsized near here. Everything seemed right. Boat floated well. Life jackets on. Etc. 3 dead. (No reason given yet)  I’ve had some luck.Including my own boat (in this case a dinghy) doing a circle after i was thrown out and it  coming back and running me over and the fast running prop ending up in my lap.  

(Baggy shirt got caught in the prop and stalled the motor, not a scratch.) 

Or solo racing and getting thrown ob with steering locked off and watching the boat sail away. Dummy. 

(Boat rounded up eventually and a half hour swim later I caught up with it and being summer so I didn’t get cold and was lightly dressed so pulling myself back onboard was possible) 

Don’t like my chances if getting dragged next to or behind offshore at speed with auto helm on. Like them even less if not attached. 

Actually it’s amazing how often you hear the day was saved by a rolling mono. You don’t get that luck on a multi. But generally they have steps or low transom but how to get there?

 

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