Varan

Transat Jacque Vabre 2019

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9 minutes ago, LeoV said:

From Charal yesterday;
We’re at 100% of the potential of the boat, we haven’t opened the toolbox since we started and we’re happy with the work done by the team. It's been hot for a long time already, Charal is a well-protected boat, so it's hot under the cockpit roof and below, it's hard to sleep.
-------------------
Lucky bastards, never looked at the toolbox....

You get the impression Beyou is confident. 

Able to push the boat very hard, is just as quick as the newest designs (although they aren't as optimised) and the greatest problem they seem to be having is that it's a bit hot inside. 

 

Stunning performance so far from that team

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Did I speak too soon? 

Charal now with a 0.7 knot average over the last 5 mins :blink:

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Ping, Ping, Ping,  Pinga, Pinga,  Pingga,  Pingga, PIIIIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGAAAAAA  , Constant Echo , BANG,  what was that?  Don't worry I just dropped the skeghti . Ping, try to get some sleep. 

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1 hour ago, Icedtea said:

Did I speak too soon? 

Charal now with a 0.7 knot average over the last 5 mins :blink:

Might allready be in a little thing call doldrums ...

Apivia at 7knts ...

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Lipinski & Hardy continue to sail away from the other 40s - while also reporting easy dry reaching conditions...

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Apivia positioning brilliantly for the trades. Go hard guys.

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Charal in the doldrums this is make or break for them with Apivia only 40 miles behind. At least Charal are moving albeit slowly. You'd expect Alex's old boat to be a notch faster with her narrower design in the doldrums, interesting times.

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Charal still parked 

Most of the fleet reaching up to follow AP but a few didn’t get the memo  Paprec jibes?

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Apivia taking the outside line over Charal but with more speed. I read that Charal haven't touched their toolbox in this race, everything working perfectly. Time on the water vs slightly later boats? Still a long way to go but getting through the Doldrums vs parking could decide some positions? Easy for Apivia to look ahead at Charal and choose a course around them, it's a disadvantage for Charal. 

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Definitely in the passing lane,  AP is ~10mi's E of Chl.  Doing 11 to chl's 3.  

 Looks like the NE is filling in fr the East.

 Predict a new leader in the morning...

 

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Apivia now closing on Primonial The Trimaran. Incredible really for a mono to be in the same place on the course a week later than a Multi. Apivia could well be the new leader next sked but will then have to hold off Charal.

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Pretty much all of the fleet diving east of Charal now as Charal has all but parked up and Apivia has poked her nose ahead doing 13.5 Knots. New Leader.! Makes it more interesting because when they get through the doldrums we'll see how Charal goes chasing Apivia? I'm tipping Beyou won't be too stressed and will be confident in his boat and the time and preparation advantage they have over the fleet. Interesting times coming.....

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Charlie and Yann are doing it. Go you good things!

Screen Shot 2019-11-06 at 9.33.21 PM.png

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Too bad we couldn't see the new HB fully retractable foils in the doldrums, should be a quite significant advantage.

And Charal with its very deep foils may be taxed more than Apivia.

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Any info on what if anything is keeping PRB around 4th (or lower) in the standings? I know they had to drive around in a circle for an hour earlier because of accidentally breaking the engine seal, but I expected they would be closer to the lead. Interesting with former Dong Fenger's/Frenchmen Jeremie Beyou on Charal, Pascal on 11th Hour and Kevin on PRB.

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The antics of Charal hunting for wind in the doldrums is a sure fire sign that what we see on the tracker wind forecasts is not all that accurate, especially in the ITCZ.

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That was an interesting playback, poor Charal. great for Dalin/Elies.
Now fingers crossed for Huusela... lets see if he sails past the Canaries with his broken mainsail or not.

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4 minutes ago, LeoV said:

That was an interesting playback, poor Charal. great for Dalin/Elies.
Now fingers crossed for Huusela... lets see if he sails past the canaries Cape Verde with his broken mainsail or not.

FIFY :) 

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45 minutes ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

The antics of Charal hunting for wind in the doldrums is a sure fire sign that what we see on the tracker wind forecasts is not all that accurate, especially in the ITCZ.

That's a first time :rolleyes:

The weather forecast on the tracker has the looks and feel of Windity. When comparing ECMWF versus GFS on Windity for 6 nov 00:00 GMT by overlaying the screenshots, I think it's GFS you see on the tracker which is cheaper or free compared to a commercial subscription of ECMWF. I do see that both models don't agree much for the ITCZ. Except for the HP off the coast. Throw the dice and watch for the clouds. And watch your opponent(s) sail past you while you are stuck under a cloud or local HP zone in Charal's case..

Or look at sat pics. 

The IR sat image (red picture) suggests that Apivia has passed most of the (thunder) clouds. Also the EUMETSAT black and white IR picture of 11:00 GMT on top of Apivia shows the most cloud action north and to the east of the boat. But atm they are heading straight into a smaller cloud formation due south of them. Apivia is not out of the woods yet.

ECMWF.png

tracker.png

GFS.png

IR red.png

EUMETSAT.png

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Apivia took the lead.
1231366877_TransatJacquesFabre61114-17.PNG.5f6e6fcf44cea5eaa77eec5865fb5836.PNG
In the open 40's this couple isn't on the lead but look sympathetic to me.
378654498_Morganursaultpoupon.jpg.ad41e0299925315b6225a5fa4f9308ba.jpg745989459_DinardlHotelier.jpg.f2acb54da3e0db98b3c691fa4db48510.jpg
She is the skipper!

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Tracker update 15:49 GMT - Ipivia is slowly but steadily getting away from Charal, which has still half the speed of the more eastern boats. PRB is stil fighting with BPX for 3rd place. Both eastern boats gained a couple of miles again on Charal too. West was certainly not best, with hindsight. 11th hour dropped from 3rd to 5th. Hope that Pascal can pick up speed again. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Herman said:

Tracker update 15:49 GMT - Ipivia is slowly but steadily getting away from Charal, which has still half the speed of the more eastern boats. PRB is stil fighting with BPX for 3rd place. Both eastern boats gained a couple of miles again on Charal too. West was certainly not best, with hindsight. 11th hour dropped from 3rd to 5th. Hope that Pascal can pick up speed again. 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry if I missed it up the thread earlier.  But 11th Hour dropped back due to serving a 90 minute penalty for inadvertently breaking the engine seal earlier in the race.  I suppose the doldrums is a good as place as any to stop for 90 minutes.

 

 

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PRB had a penalty (for breaking the prop seal while working on the dessal or something), and they had to do it before a certain latitude, don't think 11th hour got any.

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How do they accidentaly break the prop seal ?

Like forgetting a gear when they turn the engine on for energy ?

Seems to happen quite un every race to somebody.

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2 minutes ago, popo said:

How do they accidentaly break the prop seal ?

Like forgetting a gear when they turn the engine on for energy ?

Seems to happen quite un every race to somebody.

I read it on 11th hour social media page this morning.  They inadvertently broke the seal on the 29th of October and followed race protocol by taking a picture, replacing the seal and notifying race organizers immediately.  They didn't say how the seal broke.

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https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/transat-jacques-vabre-casses-tete-et-tete-a-l-envers-06-11-2019-12426459.php

Jean Le Cam "At the world championship of the one who gets fooled, Jérémie and Christopher are champions! We all had shots like that ... It's not deserved but it's like that. They made the race in the lead and then ... But when you know the position of the game every hour, it's easier to shoot. "

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1 hour ago, popo said:

How do they accidentaly break the prop seal ?

Like forgetting a gear when they turn the engine on for energy ?

Seems to happen quite un every race to somebody.

For PRB, below they say it was working on the dessal :

https://www.scanvoile.com/2019/10/penalite-prb-jacques-vabre-kevin-escoffier-imoca-monocoque.html

But below Kevin doesn't mention it :

 

 

And for 11th hour, they don't say much :

https://www.transatjacquesvabre.org/fr/actualites/breve/1726/11th-hour-racing-effectue-une-penalite

But it also happened during the first night. (so most probably nothing to gain)

And both to be done before the equator.

Not sure why Kevin chose to do it that early.

 

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Into the trades now. The drag race is on. Charlie and Yann will have to work hard to stay in front of the charging bull.

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15 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Into the trades now. The drag race is on. Charlie and Yann will have to work hard to stay in front of the charging bull.

Wonder if Apivia packed a red flag 

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Just now, jb5 said:

Wonder if Apivia packed a red flag 

Ha, ha. Best they make a run for the barrera, I reckon. No point in getting that beast riled up. ;-)

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Advens from west group is only 85 nm behind Charal .. AT would be 3rd now! I overestimated Arkea ..it is nevertheless good 

 

go Advens go! 

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3 minutes ago, troll99 said:

Advens from west group is only 85 nm behind Charal .. AT would be 3rd now! I overestimated Arkea ..it is nevertheless good 

 

go Advens go! 

Would Alex be third? He wasn't ahead of Advens when he broke if I remember

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Into the trades now. The drag race is on. Charlie and Yann will have to work hard to stay in front of the charging bull.

Think another 100 miles or so looking at the sat pics

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14 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

Would Alex be third? He wasn't ahead of Advens when he broke if I remember

not much

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2 hours ago, yl75 said:

For PRB, below they say it was working on the dessal :

https://www.scanvoile.com/2019/10/penalite-prb-jacques-vabre-kevin-escoffier-imoca-monocoque.html

But below Kevin doesn't mention it :

 

 

He is moaning a bit that it is rather harsh that when you already have a problem and make a little mistake, that you then get penalised double. But he agrees that a rule is a rule, and does accept it.

And doesn't he say in the video that he hit it (the seal presumably) with his elbow?

BTW, after that video follows a playlist, all with TJV stuff, really worth watching, if you have the time for it...

 

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1 hour ago, huey 2 said:

Passing lane........ it could happen again....going to be an interesting finish

Indeed. Currently, Charal is slowly but steadily being reeled in by the eastern boats with more wind. There is a 40 NM lead left between nr 2 and 3, and declining every update. My guess is that Charal and the nrs 3 and so on could be getting out of the ITCZ around the same time if they maintain a current average speed difference of 3 kts. Or even earlier. We will see tomorrow morning if Beyou and Pratt could start to pull their hair out or not.

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6 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

24 hour log

Charal 146

Everyone else 264

Tough penalty for leading at the doldrums, but not that unusual 

Indeed, but the FIFO-principle has left the building some time ago.

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1 hour ago, huey 2 said:

https://www.facebook.com/TransatJacquesVabre/videos/1020017531666415/?v=356596738476908

Passing lane........ it could happen again....going to be an interesting finish

Holy shit. Absolute worst nightmare, having a competitor screaming up behind and overtaking like that. 

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Holy shit. Absolute worst nightmare, having a competitor screaming up behind and overtaking like that. 

Yeah saw this the other day still don't understand why Charal was so much faster than Apivia in those conditions/ Obviously Charal was foiling and Apivia not. But why?

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Charal prolonging the misery by falling off?  MQ is still rolling. It totally sucks to get passed on both sides

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53 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah saw this the other day still don't understand why Charal was so much faster than Apivia in those conditions/ Obviously Charal was foiling and Apivia not. But why?

Amazing alright. At 0.06 in the vid, Charal pops up onto her foil and rockets ahead. Maybe they'd just changed up to a bigger kite? She also has pretty large area foils to flight mode may come a bit quicker than aboard Apivia. More drag too, at higher wind velocity of course.

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49 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Amazing alright. At 0.06 in the vid, Charal pops up onto her foil and rockets ahead. Maybe they'd just changed up to a bigger kite? She also has pretty large area foils to flight mode may come a bit quicker than aboard Apivia. More drag too, at higher wind velocity of course.

Yeah gotta be sail selection? Poor Charal now over 70 miles behind not sure she can recover from the Doldrums? 

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58 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Yeah gotta be sail selection? Poor Charal now over 70 miles behind not sure she can recover from the Doldrums? 

Apivia has slipped away again. Not much finesse about the big bull when the breeze crimps out, by the look. 

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Apivia is the only boat in the first ten that is in double speed figures, and appears to have shaken off the doldrums, what Charal is up to is beyond me.

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49 minutes ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

Apivia is the only boat in the first ten that is in double speed figures, and appears to have shaken off the doldrums, what Charal is up to is beyond me.

maybe the chrome wrap on Charal attracts the black windless clouds?

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39 minutes ago, Rainbow Spirit said:

Apivia is the only boat in the first ten that is in double speed figures, and appears to have shaken off the doldrums, what Charal is up to is beyond me.

A lot of influence through MerConcept and Francois Gabart on this Apivia programme, by the look. They are doing extraordinarily well for a team with just 3,000nm under Apivia's keel before this race began. Plenty of experience aboard too of course, with co-skipper, Yann - and Charlie too, although not in IMOCA60s.

One of their goals for the TJV was to prove Apivia's reliability. I think it's pretty clear 'reliability' has been built into the very essence of this programme, from the start.

 

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Apivia cashed the "Get Of Jail Free Card" at the Doldrums Gates and the others rolled the dice. 120 Miles ahead for the boys in Yellow with the Black Beast parked up again, not to mention pretty much the rest of the chasers going nowhere in a hurry. 

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OK, little red riding hood Apivia hopped out of the ITCZ-woods and is dashing for her home. According to the IR sat pics she has no cloud action leeft between her and the Brazilian coast and should be enjoying the trades. All chasers have still cloud action. According to the very rough routing I did for Apivia with her 07:00 GMT position, proxy IMOCA 60 2012 polars and GFS, she should be at the finish in 3 days time. Charal's lead over nr 3 PRB is down to 15 nm, and still decreasing. Charal again completely parked-up in the past hour, she did a whopping 1,4 NM. Bizarre. And #4 BPX is trying to keep up with PRB, but failing, as PRB is pulling away slowly.

Edit:

pic #1 has the GFS wind speed with isotachs (similar wind speed lines) which indicate too that Apivia is in the trades @ 12kts wind speed and the chasers in 8 kts wind speed

pic #2 Apivia routing

pic #3 Apivia routing  + IR sat

pic#4 IR sat zoom in

 

 

Zoom in.png

Routing.png

Overview with IR sat and GFS and routing.png

Zoom in IR sat pic.png

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Holy crap, Jérémie and Christopher still parked, they must be so pissed ...

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Tracker now showing Charal in fourth, going 1.8 knots.  Unbelievable. I feel sorry for them - hope they get out of the Doldrums soon!

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Now they are at 10.8 knts and 140.9 nm from Apivia, that's 13% behind on Apivia DTF, going to be tough ...

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Imoca; 2 out of 3 black boats are unlucky.

C40;

Class40: Crédit Mutuel breaks 24-hour record

Never has a Class40 boat travelled as fast before as Ian Lipinski and Adrien Hardy on Crédit Mutuel. Last night they peaked at 415.86 miles at average speed of 17.3 knots over 24 hours between 03:30 on 4.11.19 and 03:30 on 5.11.19. That beat the old record of 377.7 miles at average speed of 15.7 knots by 2017 winners V and B, set in the last edition of the Transat Jacques Vabre Normandie Le Havre. 

It is no one-off wonder. They have broken the old 24-hour record several times over the last couple of days and have been over 400 all morning in their new David Raison-designed 40-footer launched this year. They have only had a couple of months training, so they are still learning about the new boat, with its most obvious innovation being its pronounced nose. One thing they have learned is that with the correct and well-trimmed set-up they can leave the autopilot to it. They have not touched the helm since Ushant, the morning after the start.

“The boat is going on its own, we found the right sails, we’re monitoring it, but its going alone,” Lipinski said this morning. “We’re under medium spinnaker with 1 reef and 2 reefs in the mainsail. We’re getting around on all fours, the boat slams lot, we’re trying not to hurt ourselves. It's a bit wet on deck, but I think it’s nothing compared to those behind us.”

----------
wow 10 % faster then old record...

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I raced those puppies, so not surprised. And even a few times double handed them, with the owner on the helm. Lots of work for me.
AopZ_Strontrace_2011_10_17_0390-768x512.

So yes I like them. My forefathers were skippers from 1650 at least till 1953.
In the old days they had an oversea trade route Frisian Dutch to London with eels for instance. They were fast then. Shallow rivers to sea and then London on shallow river again.
Why I never came up with the idea for a mini with a scow while building Lombards designs.... hats of to Raison.
My two stupid ideas were mini foils on the bow (not allowed then) and mast in the back without main, only front sails, that one would attract photographers even if it did not work.

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23 minutes ago, LeoV said:

I raced those puppies, so not surprised. And even a few times double handed them, with the owner on the helm. Lots of work for me.
So yes I like them. My forefathers were skippers from 1650 at least till 1953.
 

Impressive :)

Were the skippers also the owners of the boats in these old days ?

Btw Leo, did you ever do the mini transat or planning to do it ?

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Yes owners, and often with outside investors for the value of the cargo. My grandfather re bought his grandfathers cargo boat and kept it in the family for outings.
So I could sail before I could swim in the little row sail boat that came standard with a big boat.

Never did MT, but did Minifastnet, did build Lombard Zero's, had that unofficial MT site with a great relation with the Classe Mini, went to starts and Canaries etc.
Sailed a lot on minis as I did free delivery from the yard on its own keel to new owners. And for years every week new clients.
Did hunt sponsorship as I was struggling boatbuilder, and did see a few miniists went way to deep in debt by doing it on own money.
Never did find sponsors in the Netherlands, even not by Dutch/French companies. That is almost a day job on its own. Came closer to an Imoca 60 deal then a Mini deal remarkably. Then 08 crises hit, end of boatbuilding fun and sponsorship dreams.Needed food on the table.
Though in all those years spend in the Caribbean (fully crewed racing) and Europe solosailing scene I sailed a lot of boats, from C40, Imoca, minis, Orma 60, mostly as guest sailor in prep time. Got wiser and older and got a more reliable job, but sailing slow is not my thing, so went MTB for years, solo in the mountains or bikeparks, lots of fun.
Now a bit struggling with health, hence my time behind a computer. But if I had the money and health back I would go for a MT. The atmosphere and camaraderie is the best in sailing.

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Tracker update. Wow, Charal is finally moving with a double digit speed. They must have gone berserk in that private high pressure zone that has stalked them and has been sitting on them for days. Their DTL is 138 nm and DTF for Apivia is 1.009 nm. So Charal must be on average 7% faster the rest of the leg compared to Apivia in order to catch the #1. The fight for second and third place is on. The chasing pack to the east of Charal will be converging more and more with Charal in de coming day. So boat handling will be key as they will be sailing more and more in the same wind. The closest boat to Charal is now +/- 60 nm to their east, Initiatives-Coeur. Go Sam!

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Apivia needs an average vmg of 17,90 kts for the rest of journey to break Dick/Eliès 2017 record

pretty impossible :)

or not?

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The east pack seems a bit parked (relatively), Charal back in second.

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Charlie and Pascale in particular seem to be experiencing some slow speeds at the moment.  They are back in eight. 
 

I continue to be impressed by Cremer and Le Cleach. Their persistence and consistency is paying off!

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The easterly boats should have a better wind angle for the run in. Going to be a good fight for second. 

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Charal back to single digit, they must be so pissed off ...

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1 hour ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Charlie and Pascale in particular seem to be experiencing some slow speeds at the moment.  They are back in eight. 
 

I continue to be impressed by Cremer and Le Cleach. Their persistence and consistency is paying off!

Don't forget the specific boat is also the last winner of the Route du Rhum (putting aside Hugo Boss grounding) it beat out a lot of other foilers that made stupid routing decisions. 

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IMG_5810.thumb.JPG.78e93a7a312e68bf999f54682160d11a.JPGI agree that Le Cleac'h and Cremer are doing amazingly well. Boat of the race so far. Maybe adding foils to boats that weren't originally designed as foilers isn't such a good idea, BP doesn't seem to need them to be as fast as boats her age...together with routing from the Jackal of courseIMG_5805.thumb.JPG.f239385b94ab99b5eb273e3c7e0fdde4.JPG

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Isn't that the old SMA? She was always a fast boat. 

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AP rolling,  gapping the fleet.

  new prediction,  BP second at the next sched.  Agree it's a great story.

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41 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Don't forget the specific boat is also the last winner of the Route du Rhum (putting aside Hugo Boss grounding) it beat out a lot of other foilers that made stupid routing decisions. 

Probably should read up more. Yes its the old SMA. 

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2 minutes ago, Starwax said:

Probably should read up more. Yes its the old SMA. 

Macif/SMA/BP

 

11 minutes ago, L'attitude said:

I agree that Le Cleac'h and Cremer are doing amazingly well. Boat of the race so far. Maybe adding foils to boats that weren't originally designed as foilers isn't such a good idea, BP doesn't seem to need them to be as fast as boats her age...together with routing from the Jackal of course


It depends on the project brief. The only races it can do particularly well in are events like RdR, TJV where mixed conditions + lack of long southern ocean leg makes the boat competitive. For the VG, a boat like BP, being well sailed can arrive first in the southern ocean will be passed and left behind by the foilers in one week.

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27 minutes ago, Raked Aft\\ said:

AP rolling,  gapping the fleet.

  new prediction,  BP second at the next sched.  Agree it's a great story.

Good bet !

And Charal back to 1.8 knts, they must be swearing quite a bit ...

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Good to see Arkea still going along in the top ten. 

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8 minutes ago, L'attitude said:

Is Arkea's keel problem fixed?

They are missing a foil, broken during (or just before) delivery to Le Havre, IIRC

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6 minutes ago, Laurent said:

They are missing a foil, broken during (or just before) delivery to Le Havre, IIRC

I know about the foil, but i had the impression they had a problem with their keel mechanism somewhere around the canaries? They where working on the keel in Le Havre three days before the start.

 

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Hydraulics went ape, so handpumping the keel canting.

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4 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Hydraulics went ape, so handpumping the keel canting.

Thanks Leo

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Why is BP sailing a daggerboard boat rather than the boat that won the last Vendee? Are they reducing their spending on IMOCAs or do they have a new boat in the pipeline?

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IIRC they sold the foiler and ended the IMCOA campaign to concentrate on the Ultime circuit.
Then the Ultime broke up and they decided to do it again and bought an old boat (ex SMA, before that MACIF).

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6 minutes ago, lurker1 said:

Why is BP sailing a daggerboard boat rather than the boat that won the last Vendee? Are they reducing their spending on IMOCAs or do they have a new boat in the pipeline?


BP team is building a new ultime for Armel that won't be ready until 2020/2021 - in the meanwhile they decided to start a more corinthian project picking up Cremer & pairing her up with Armel in the buildup to 2020 VG. 
 

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Hydraulics went ape, so handpumping the keel canting.

 

1 hour ago, L'attitude said:

Thanks Leo

Forgot about that...

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On 11/4/2019 at 10:59 PM, mad said:

Troll or fucking idiot? 

 

Shall I start a poll??

Yawn...

Do you just spend your entire life on here.. Guessing you don't own a boat or sail. But enjoy being an arm chair expert with no partical experience. 

 

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43 minutes ago, Laurence said:

Do you just spend your entire life on here.. Guessing you don't own a boat or sail. But enjoy being an arm chair expert with no partical experience. 

 

Some topics have been discussed ad nauseam in the panels here. The forward looking sonar is one of the worst, as it pops up every time a foil is being ripped of, or a boat bumps into an unidentified whale or whatever. Preferably posted by a newbie. So start your own company with the idea, and get rich quick. Unfortunately, you are not the first and not the last one that moans on the brilliance of this idea. We have seen it, done it, and gotten the forward looking sonar t-shirt many times. And now we are just bored. So get rich, or get over it. 

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Just wondering if Charal has a problem other than a lack of wind.? 

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Meanwhile,  Apivia is gone as the rich get richer. Highest boat speed. Charal back to #5 and soon 6th if they continu with the single digit speeds. I can’t imagine how frustrated they could be. The weather gods are cruel to them. BPX in solid 2nd position as PRB can’t keep up. Unless the weather (forecast) can pull a rabbit out of a hat, this could very well be the finish order IMHO. 

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This is freaking incredible.

All top 9 IMOCA are now in double digit speed.... that is, except Charal at 5 knots!

If it stays the same in the next 3 hours, they are 9th !!!

I start to wonder like terrafirma if something is wrong or if they are simply the most unlucky racing boat in the last 2 decades of Atlantic offshore racing...

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