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boatcat65

Six Or More Santa Cruz 70's For Sale- Is The Class Done?

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Seems like a lot, a high percentage of the total number produced.  After being at or near the top of the racing world for decades are they now that far out of favor?  Too many crew requirements?  Moorage?  Not my group of sailors so I'm blind to what's current.

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They will forever be popular with a lot of people. if i could afford one, i'd buy one!

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They probably need new sails.

Even rich people would have a long moment of introspection when they were told what the bill would be.

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Good question, I've been wondering how long the old boats would hang on the face of the trend towards smaller but faster and less crew intensive boats with foils, canting keels, etc.  Can't be much fun to spend multiples of  $$$ and time only to finish behind a smaller, "funner" boat. I saw one SC 70 (68' really) that was asking $265k . My immediate thought was the reason they are cheap is probably because they are relatively expensive to maintain, time consuming and require lots of experienced bodies to sail.

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relatively expensive to maintain ? :blink:

I was talking with the owner of a TP 52 last year. He had just bought a new carbon main - cost $47,000 USD.

Those boats are what? 1/2 the size of an SC70?

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This move to flat bottoms, plumb bows, wide sterns seems to be all the rage, even to those who don't know the purpose of the evolution.  Classic boats seem to be more appealing to seasoned sailors, with maybe 20 or more years on the water.  

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

I was talking with the owner of a TP 52 last year. He had just bought a new carbon main - cost $47,000 USD.

I took out my abacus to do the math. :wacko: That's two of my 32' boat plus a cruise for two.

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Until you have surfed a sled down The Molokai Channel in July, or down Baja on a clear November day, you will not understand why these boats are special.

Fast and fun.

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The SC70 is a awesome boat.  But that being said for the same price one can have a boat for the same price without overlapping headsails, without a spinnaker pole and without 30 year old boat issues.  The price of the sails is a big issue when you consider the size of the inventory is and how much quicker the aforementioned overlapping sails wear out.

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45 minutes ago, Jules said:

I took out my abacus to do the math. :wacko: That's two of my 32' boat plus a cruise for two.

At the time it was 6 of my 30' project boat.

For one sail.

How many do they need? A dozen?

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1 hour ago, Coolerking said:

Until you have surfed a sled down The Molokai Channel in July, or down Baja on a clear November day, you will not understand why these boats are special.

Fast and fun.

Copy that, I would also add the CORW in June! They are perfect for the sailor that does not want to sail offshore in a carbon casket under six feet of water.

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Westerly is only $260 USD and looked good the last time I saw it.

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They'll end up in the great lakes.  more fun to be had

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They are great boats, and the sails are actualy about the same or cheaper than for a TP 52.  They are also significantly easier to sail.  That being said, we have five of them in Detroit, and that soaks up a lot of crew.   

Not everyone wants to get tossed around on a light agile boat, and these things are still fast.   It took a Volvo 70 to beat the record in the Chicago mackinaw!

 

 

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Mainsails are the same size or smaller than a TP.  Jibs bigger.  Dollar per fun ratio cannot be beat, and what other boat will surf mini waves in 9 knots of breeze carrying a full galley, enclosed head, and nice plush bunks, along with being waterproof.

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I can't figure out why no one has done a full hydraulic conversion on an SC70 and reduce the crew requirement down to the 8-10 or so needed to tuck in a reef or do a gybe.

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6 minutes ago, Moonduster said:

I can't figure out why no one has done a full hydraulic conversion on an SC70 and reduce the crew requirement down to the 8-10 or so needed to tuck in a reef or do a gybe.

Other than the single pedestal, you’re not eliminating many people. Other than bouy races, we never even had dedicated grinders. 

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4 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Equation at 365K is the best deal on there because it’s the best kept and maintained 

Don’t forget, it’s also got the Orgasmatron!  Trying to ride that thing in steep waves is “interesting!”

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

relatively expensive to maintain ? :blink:

I was talking with the owner of a TP 52 last year. He had just bought a new carbon main - cost $47,000 USD.

Those boats are what? 1/2 the size of an SC70?

Other than the hull and a few headsails, everything else on a TP52 is the same size or bigger.  And TP52 and IRC52's I've seen in the $300k price range are beat to shit.  I'm with Scooter on this one, if I could afford one, a 70' sled would be near the top of my list.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

relatively expensive to maintain ? :blink:

I was talking with the owner of a TP 52 last year. He had just bought a new carbon main - cost $47,000 USD.

Those boats are what? 1/2 the size of an SC70?

A carbon main for a SC70 would probably be $50k. Would you rather have your carbon sails on a SC70 or on a TP52? 

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7 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Other than the hull and a few headsails, everything else on a TP52 is the same size or bigger.  And TP52 and IRC52's I've seen in the $300k price range are beat to shit.  I'm with Scooter on this one, if I could afford one, a 70' sled would be near the top of my list.

Absolutely. At similar running costs for everything except dockage, the comfort level is a world apart. I’m 6’2” and only had to duck to get anywhere below that’s under the cockpit. Everywhere else is wonderfully spacious!  Everyone on the rail loves it when fresh lasagna comes out of the oven on a cold distance race. Just plain great boats. 

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As far as the class being "done", I highly doubt it.  There seems to be a migration every 5-8 years from the West Coast to the Great Lakes and back.  Hell, there are even several repeat owners!

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2 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

As far as the class being "done", I highly doubt it.  There seems to be a migration every 5-8 years from the West Coast to the Great Lakes and back.  Hell, there are even several repeat owners!

I worked for one repeat owner, and sailed with yet another one. No way around the cost of running a big race boat, but otherwise they seemed to love them. I certainly enjoyed sailing on them. 

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Still a decent amount at the Chi mac this year. Did seem like a decline from last year in participation 

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1 hour ago, Swimsailor said:

As far as the class being "done", I highly doubt it.  There seems to be a migration every 5-8 years from the West Coast to the Great Lakes and back.  Hell, there are even several repeat owners!

No kidding.  Some of those boats commute more frequently than Eliot Spitzer.  

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I heard $70k/yr running costs including some paid crew for one of the for sale boats.

They aren't the top class anymore so GL70s should just agree to white sails and no pros.  People that want black sails and pros can buy TP52s.

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9 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

I heard $70k/yr running costs including some paid crew for one of the for sale boats.

They aren't the top class anymore so GL70s should just agree to white sails and no pros.  People that want black sails and pros can buy TP52s.

Huh?  BYC Mac, SC70s were 1-3 overall.  They're not going to do that with white sails.  I haven't seen any of the owners at the soup kitchen recently so if that's how they want to spend their money, so be it.  

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You won't find a better value, or a better boat to race offshore on.   I have been racing them since the late 80's (many different boats) and they are fast and pleasant offshore.  I've also raced on some Andrews designs (Locomotion and Med Man) and while great boats as well, they are low freeboard, small down below and very wet.  It all comes down to how you want to enjoy your sailing.   If you own a sled and like sailing with your long time shipmates that are north of 50, great.  If you get a TP 52, probably going to need to import some younger skiff sailors.  Both are great.

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1 minute ago, Cal20sailor said:

Huh?  BYC Mac, SC70s were 1-3 overall.  They're not going to do that with white sails.  I haven't seen any of the owners at the soup kitchen recently so if that's how they want to spend their money, so be it.  

 

You are absolutely right that they won't win overall with lower budgets.  I'm not sure that is how they want to spend their money based on so many boats being for sale.  I'm just guessing and I'm sure you know more than I do.

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32 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

I heard $70k/yr running costs including some paid crew for one of the for sale boats.

They aren't the top class anymore so GL70s should just agree to white sails and no pros.  People that want black sails and pros can buy TP52s.

Those numbers are fine for the cheaply run boats. Not even close for the top of the fleet. 

Just to put it in perspective, during the time I sailed on one sled, but did contract work for Evo, We blew up a heavy 1 during a regatta. I got sent down the dock to see if they had a spare. We had to settle for a slightly oversized 2. Meanwhile, Thirsty Tiger bummed a spin pole off them. They basically kept the whole fleet running. Being friends with the guys, I know the budget, and 70K is adorable. 

Edit:  just for perspective, 70K doesn’t even cover the boat captain. 

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I haven’t looked at the rules in years, but last I remember was three sails a year max. A few boats were doing that. They weren’t the 70K a year boats. 

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Doubting cost to operate is the reason most are for sale.  Suspect many will be replaced by boats that are MORE expensive to own and keep competitive.

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7 hours ago, derail said:

They are great boats, and the sails are actualy about the same or cheaper than for a TP 52.  They are also significantly easier to sail.  That being said, we have five of them in Detroit, and that soaks up a lot of crew.   

Not everyone wants to get tossed around on a light agile boat, and these things are still fast.   It took a Volvo 70 to beat the record in the Chicago mackinaw!

 

 

Details, Evo, Equation, Dynamis...Arctos? Who did Arctos used to be?

What happened to Thirsty Tiger, Mirage and Warpath?

Or the Equation Andrews 70?

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1 minute ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Details, Evo, Equation, Dynamis...Arctos? Who did Arctos used to be?

What happened to Thirsty Tiger, Mirage and Warpath?

Arctos was Alchemy.

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Don’t forget Stripes (Detroit boat and crew mostly). 

And last I knew, a main for a sc70 was nowhere near 50k.  Rigs are same or shorter than a 52.  And pinhead.

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Let's see there were 9 sleds in Div 2 at Transpac. There were 6 sleds in the Chicago Mac Race. Taxi and Merlin just completed major refits. The class is doing just fine. Albeit there is more competition that they face against faster but less comfortable boats in the same price range. So, it just depends on your priorities. I chose to accept a ride on a TP52 this year because the sailing is so rewarding. But, the off watch time is a lot less comfortable. Six of our crew of 10 were over 55. My wife said she'd never seen me so exhausted after a Transpac. But, boy was it Fun!

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13 hours ago, Roleur said:

Doubting cost to operate is the reason most are for sale.  Suspect many will be replaced by boats that are MORE expensive to own and keep competitive.

You are probably right about that! But I also think the asking prices of the 70s are a reflection of their ongoing maintenance costs. Some have opined that these boats represent a great bang for the buck, but if that were really true wouldn't the asking prices (like one for $265k) be a bit higher?

Where's that J-125 Unicorn thread?

Plus isn't it doubtful that a thoughtful 70 owner would trade a less expensive boat for a more expensive boat unless the more expensive boat represented a much better bang for the buck? The fact that 6 are for sale all at once might indicate that a lot of owners are thinking the same thing.

What's the old adage? "It ain't the buyin' her, it's the keepin' her"

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20 hours ago, derail said:

They are great boats, and the sails are actualy about the same or cheaper than for a TP 52.  They are also significantly easier to sail.  That being said, we have five of them in Detroit, and that soaks up a lot of crew.   

Not everyone wants to get tossed around on a light agile boat, and these things are still fast.   It took a Volvo 70 to beat the record in the Chicago mackinaw!

 

 

Mackinaw?  We sail to the Island...not the City....

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2 hours ago, derail said:

Don’t forget Stripes (Detroit  Ann Arbor boat and crew mostly). 

Couldn't resist. 

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The one thing is that is certain is that they will not sell quickly. 

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25 minutes ago, Parma said:

You are probably right about that! But I also think the asking prices of the 70s are a reflection of their ongoing maintenance costs. Some have opined that these boats represent a great bang for the buck, but if that were really true wouldn't the asking prices (like one for $265k) be a bit higher?

Where's that J-125 Unicorn thread?

Plus isn't it doubtful that a thoughtful 70 owner would trade a less expensive boat for a more expensive boat unless the more expensive boat represented a much better bang for the buck? The fact that 6 are for sale all at once might indicate that a lot of owners are thinking the same thing.

What's the old adage? "It ain't the buyin' her, it's the keepin' her"

Keep in mind, it’s not exactly rare to buy one for a bucket list Trans Pac, then list it right after. 

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All you need is 18 of your friends and 500k a year to operate plus transport,yard fees and enough beer to feed the crew

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Owning any good looking 70 foot sexy  boat is like putting your arm around the waist of  a good looking  tall women of equal proportions regardless of age. It has nothing to do with cost or up keeping her.  If you can afford it, do not worry your pretty little head , go for it and enjoy the hell out of your life.  

Spending much more and decorating your ego corner with silverware that you have won  wears off much quicker than whom you love, be proud to be with her and enjoy her with her.  

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Maybe they will end up being charter boats like those IOR maxis in the Whitsundays. 

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4 hours ago, Monkey said:

Keep in mind, it’s not exactly rare to buy one for a bucket list Trans Pac, then list it right after. 

Yeah, that was my thinking too.  It could be that, having completed the bucket list item of racing the 50th TransPac, the owners decided to sell.  (But I haven't verified the list of boats for sale vs TransPac competitors)

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But doesn't that just kind of point to the fact that it's not a keeper, and that a different boat is much better to own and, by extension, invest/waste money on?

I know plenty of women that I would love to be married to.....for a month.

Don't anybody get me wrong, I'm not knocking the SC70, it's just that for that dollar entry point & related costs (or size) most would probably be happier somewhere else.

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My point was that I would not be surprised if there are a lot of TransPac boats up for sale in the hear future, as it was likely a bucket list item for a lot of people, not just SC 70 owners.

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26 minutes ago, Parma said:

But doesn't that just kind of point to the fact that it's not a keeper, and that a different boat is much better to own and, by extension, invest/waste money on?

I know plenty of women that I would love to be married to.....for a month.

Don't anybody get me wrong, I'm not knocking the SC70, it's just that for that dollar entry point & related costs (or size) most would probably be happier somewhere else.

There’s no right answer. Of the three local ones we had, one was owned for years and only sold because the owner had bought a SECOND one. Then he kept that one the rest of his life. The third one in town was here at least 10-15 years despite only being used for 2 races a year most of the time. 

Others buy them, then sell before the serious money catches up with them. You’d have to ask each owner what their motivation is. 

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Is Bill going to hang up the Equation program or is something else in the works?  I did not see him in Harbor Springs.

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11 hours ago, FINS said:

400k ... erm unless your LOVE SC70's... there's a lot more value out there, for faster and more competitive boats. I dont disrespect the nostalgia, i sailed on a Farr65 and would again any day... but the maintenance makes baby jesus cry against the overall performance and fun factor.

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As a former owner of a sled (Denali N/M 70) I can tell you it’s all about logistics being a pain in the ass. I felt like a goat herder chasing around 15-18 of my friends and fellow sailors for practices, races, housing, etc. it’s far easier to deal with 10 crew on the current boat (Denali^3 Ker 46+). Also the sail costs on the 46 is lower than the 70 as well as the dockage, storage etc is also easier to arrange. On the flip-side 70 is a great ride especially in middle age for you and your buddies and far easier to sail. But that being said, nothing like sailing past a 70 in 20+ knots of breeze with someone pointing a fire hose at your face....serious grins on the 46.

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On 8/12/2019 at 5:02 PM, eastern motors said:

I heard $70k/yr running costs including some paid crew for one of the for sale boats.

They aren't the top class anymore so GL70s should just agree to white sails and no pros.  People that want black sails and pros can buy TP52s.

I'd be cruising the Channel Islands out here. Fuck racing one of those, too much $$$
go with a 120% furler, cruising kite on a short sprit and a furling main.

plenty of women want to spend the week at the islands and have fun.

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"cheap, fast or fun... pick any two"

Nothing in that size range is going to be "cheap", but I'd argue that - for the money - it'd be hard to find a better combination of fast and fun than a SC-70...

 

 

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3 hours ago, Denali^3 said:

As a former owner of a sled (Denali N/M 70) I can tell you it’s all about logistics being a pain in the ass. I felt like a goat herder chasing around 15-18 of my friends and fellow sailors for practices, races, housing, etc. it’s far easier to deal with 10 crew on the current boat (Denali^3 Ker 46+). Also the sail costs on the 46 is lower than the 70 as well as the dockage, storage etc is also easier to arrange. On the flip-side 70 is a great ride especially in middle age for you and your buddies and far easier to sail. But that being said, nothing like sailing past a 70 in 20+ knots of breeze with someone pointing a fire hose at your face....serious grins on the 46.

I love when real owners show up and let us know how it really is.  Seriously!  Your Ker is gorgeous and I love following on FB.  Thank you for setting the record straight!

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On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 1:46 PM, Expat Canuck said:

Yeah, that was my thinking too.  It could be that, having completed the bucket list item of racing the 50th TransPac, the owners decided to sell.  (But I haven't verified the list of boats for sale vs TransPac competitors)

From what I see on Yachtworld only Westerly fits that bill and it's last Hawaii race was PacCup 2018.

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On 8/14/2019 at 1:33 PM, Swimsailor said:

From what I see on Yachtworld only Westerly fits that bill and it's last Hawaii race was PacCup 2018.

Westerly is for sale for no reason other than the current CAD/USD exchange rate would make it beneficial time to sell for us, and life constraints meant no ocean races possible till 2021 so it made some sense to sell instead of letting safety gear etc age out while sitting.  If she has not gone to a new home in that time frame the current ownership will continue to campaign her locally in the PNW and likely in the next Transpac. The boat is THE best offshore platform I have sailed to date, it's fun, fast, you eat and sleep well and have dry underwear even 6 days in. The major drawback we have found is that there are no other Sleds actively being sailed in the NW and inshore racing against TP52's has gotten a little old...  On the upside, you can actually enjoy spending a weekend on the boat at a regatta with your friends instead of needing to rent an Air BNB and get off the boat as fast as possible after racing because the boat is still nice enough to be on and is not so weight sensitive that you can have a real fridge and stereo. 

PS we did already buy an ad ;) (although the price is wrong on the SA ad) 

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3 minutes ago, sailiorstu said:

Westerly is for sale for no reason other than the current CAD/USD exchange rate would make it beneficial time to sell for us, and life constraints meant no ocean races possible till 2021 so it made some sense to sell instead of letting safety gear etc age out while sitting.  If she has not gone to a new home in that time frame the current ownership will continue to campaign her locally in the PNW and likely in the next Transpac. The boat is THE best offshore platform I have sailed to date, it's fun, fast, you eat and sleep well and have dry underwear even 6 days in. The major drawback we have found is that there are no other Sleds actively being sailed in the NW and inshore racing against TP52's has gotten a little old...  On the upside, you can actually enjoy spending a weekend on the boat at a regatta with your friends instead of needing to rent an Air BNB and get off the boat as fast as possible after racing because the boat is still nice enough to be on and is not so weight sensitive that you can have a real fridge and stereo. 

PS we did already buy an ad ;) (although the price is wrong on the SA ad) 

Love what you have done with the boat!  Good luck selling or sailing!

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There were only 4 SC70's in the 2019 Chicago Race to Mackinac. They used to have their own section, and I'd bet they had close to 10 boats for several years. There's a GL70 webpage for the SC70's that used to race on the Great Lakes, looks like it hasn't been updated in quite a while, last story was 2013...

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On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 1:27 PM, sailiorstu said:

Westerly is for sale for no reason other than the current CAD/USD exchange rate would make it beneficial time to sell for us, and life constraints meant no ocean races possible till 2021 so it made some sense to sell instead of letting safety gear etc age out while sitting.  If she has not gone to a new home in that time frame the current ownership will continue to campaign her locally in the PNW and likely in the next Transpac. The boat is THE best offshore platform I have sailed to date, it's fun, fast, you eat and sleep well and have dry underwear even 6 days in. The major drawback we have found is that there are no other Sleds actively being sailed in the NW and inshore racing against TP52's has gotten a little old...  On the upside, you can actually enjoy spending a weekend on the boat at a regatta with your friends instead of needing to rent an Air BNB and get off the boat as fast as possible after racing because the boat is still nice enough to be on and is not so weight sensitive that you can have a real fridge and stereo. 

PS we did already buy an ad ;) (although the price is wrong on the SA ad) 

Howdy Stu, I was fortunate to work and race on your boat when it was in living Los Angeles, so good to see the pictures of the boat in the classifieds, looking so damn good!

We worked hard to take care of it, and I had the best teachers as many of the Santa Cruz gurus came to sail with the new owner.

I did the 95 transpac, and many other races on it, so much fun, and seeing the boat again, I sat and stared at it for about 30 minutes while a rush of different memories came flying by.

Thanks for that.

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Coolerking, 

That's awesome to hear about. Her life from those times is a bit of a mystery. The early days in San Fran are well documented but after the mid 90's it seems she disappeared a bit? The boat was certainly really rough when we bought her (2011) and it has been a major labour of love to get her back to fighting shape. Definitely a new boat with the new rig more sail area and about 1500lbs lighter than when we bought her... Like I said I LOVE the boat but when we bought her there were about 3-4 other sleds and 1 TP52 sailing in the NW now there are like 5 TP52 and we are the only sled left racing so that has sucked the fun out of of the local stuff a bit. 

Feel Free to PM me I would love to learn more about the boats past.

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On 8/17/2019 at 3:15 PM, Coolerking said:

Howdy Stu, I was fortunate to work and race on your boat when it was in living Los Angeles, so good to see the pictures of the boat in the classifieds, looking so damn good!

We worked hard to take care of it, and I had the best teachers as many of the Santa Cruz gurus came to sail with the new owner.

I did the 95 transpac, and many other races on it, so much fun, and seeing the boat again, I sat and stared at it for about 30 minutes while a rush of different memories came flying by.

Thanks for that.

Hey Dobie, remember this one?!

We should try to steal it from Cal YC and hang it in the 49er Saloon!  

 

2E083C67-5AE7-404D-8FA4-49418B6378F9.jpeg

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Yea, Frisch should have that behind the bar for sure.

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