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18 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Fuuuuck.

 

8 hours ago, jb5 said:

almost new again

Credit L'Occitane

FB_IMG_1593121961383-01.jpeg

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IMG_1593121971030-01.jpeg

Surprised to see glue film within the skins. Looks like multiple cooks in the original skin. I would think that if you are engineering to these tight tolerances the build quality would have to be second to none. But these photos don’t suggest that.

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Some pretty good footage from the recent 48 hour false solo testing. 

 

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Arkea Paprec in action. Interesting shot of Simon sliding down into the cockpit from being on deck really not sure about that layout. About 22 seconds in. Link won't embed for some reason, says it is a Facebook error, what's new... 

https://www.facebook.com/1608832879404270/posts/2643160975971450/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=e

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35 minutes ago, jb5 said:

Arkea Paprec in action. Interesting shot of Simon sliding down into the cockpit from being on deck really not sure about that layout. About 22 seconds in. Link won't embed for some reason, says it is a Facebook error, what's new... 

https://www.facebook.com/1608832879404270/posts/2643160975971450/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=e

Hopefully, he won't be forgetting to hook up his harness. Looking a bit more steady with the new foils also, JB. 

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Interesting to see those big deck drains just pouring the water out in that clip, in even what appears relatively benign conditions. Must have been a genuine WTF moment when first launched and without drains. Would be interested to properly see the deck diffrences with Corum (2nd Gen of this design).2079248744_ArkeaPaprec-DeckDrains.thumb.jpg.eadb4ea5b297dd93fd9c04c8c6e5a2e6.jpg

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Really interesting information from the Sébastien Simon interview in Ouest France :

https://www.ouest-france.fr/vendee-globe/vendee-arctique-sebastien-simon-j-y-vais-avec-prudence-quitte-a-mettre-le-pied-sur-le-frein-6882691

Quick DeeplL translate of the interesting part about the foils :

"Your new foils are radically different...

Today we have going with foils shapes and the efforts are much easier to anticipate. They are C-shaped foils, with a constant radius, very different from the first ones. They are much stronger, bigger, thicker, probably the thickest in the Imoca fleet, because we're looking for reliability.

Do you only have one at the moment?

Yes, this first foil is reversible. That means you just have to cut off the end of the tip, the end of the foil that's in the water, and graft it onto the other side. This requires two to three weeks of work, but if necessary, it allows us to have a replacement foil quickly. The pair we're going to receive these days, on the other hand, will be the pair used for the Vendée Globe and they won't be reversible, because the inner part of the foil, which we call the bone, is not reversible.

Why a reversible foil?

It's a pretty interesting concept, because instead of making two pairs of foils, we make three. And it's a foil concept designed for downwind VMG and very open reaching, beyond 90° wind angle. Designed to relieve the boat very quickly. And the first tests we've done are very satisfactory as in 13 knots of wind, we were already flying at nearly 23 knots. So it's a new boat, and for the moment that makes me a bit anxious, as I'm going to line up for a race without having apprehended the boat and studied her behaviour. Because of course, the large foils, which make the boat take off quickly, put a lot of mechanical stress on the boat, so there are alarms ringing everywhere, so it's important to know how to configure them properly."

 

So the foil we saw is a extra special reversible replacement foil just in case they break one before the Vendee Globe. They will receive the normal, non reversible pair a week and a half before the Vendee arctic, which means they should have received them by now.

This is the first team doing a pair of foils + a spare "ambidextrous" foil

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Well they broke both foils and JuanK basically threw them under the bus when asked re why AP broke both foils by saying PRB had thinner foils and more miles and “draw your own conclusions”

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https://www.scanvoile.com/2020/06/vendee-globe-sans-assistance-avis-de-course-precision.html#.Xvd-fvrYqbg

Some clarifications and expansions on the VG no assistance rule mainly due to technical options that have expanded opportunities that previously were more limited or didn't exist..

Source: Vendée Globe

4.3.1 General
New: this time, the rule is formulated that everything that is not explicitly authorized in article 4.3 (non-assistance) is prohibited. This opens up infinitely the field of prohibitions, in addition to those formally written in each of the paragraphs.

4.3.2 Routing and Weather
Same spirit as on previous editions: formal ban on receiving personalized weather assistance and / or outside routing. The list of weather query tools and software commonly used by sailors to navigate their way must be the subject of an authorization request to the race director.

4.3.3 Performance aid
This new chapter is the big change from this 2020 edition. All the data that leaves the boat in real or delayed time (as described above) must be public. A team cannot use them during the race on a private basis and it is strictly forbidden to draw advice from them which would influence the performance or the strategy of a boat. It is obviously prohibited to take control of embedded software from the ground or to redefine calculations. About twenty lines insist on these prohibitions.

4.3.4 Medical aid
The principles remain the same as before. Only the official race doctor, the Toulouse Maritime Medical Consultation Center and the skipper's personal doctor, declared in his registration file, are authorized to provide medical assistance.  

4.3.5 Remote technical advice
We remember the episode of the restart of the PRB engine in 2001, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, using pulleys and a well-felt jibe. The trick had been imagined by the technical team of Michel Desjoyeaux, then led by Vincent Riou. Without this boost, Michel Desjoyeaux, future winner of this edition, might not have been able to continue his race, due to the lack of energy to power his navigation instruments. Remote technical support - communicating a method, a repair method for a broken or damaged part - remains authorized. If this authorization may displease purists of non-assistance, it does not take away from the fact that the seafarer must fend for himself to make a repair which is sometimes very complicated, even perilous, and that he is never sure of it. reach.

In addition, this "hotline" must remain purely technical, as Jacques Caraës explains. " If you tear your gennaker apart, your shore team has the right to tell you how to fix it." However, she does not have the right to tell you when to do it (depending on the weather for example) or which trajectory you should follow, even less to redefine the polar of your boat. There, it would be assistance with competition, assistance with performance. It is up to the skipper to make his choices according to his damage and to adapt himself. If we went further, let's assume that the speed of a boat is degraded. Your team can't tell you, 'Are you sure you're okay? Are you sure you have the right sail? ' »…

4.3.6 Communication
The article lists the type of communications, the means and authorized interlocutors. The website consultation history must be kept until the end of the race.

4.3.7 Access to anchorage
The text is unchanged from its previous version. It is possible to anchor or moor on a trunk on its own to shelter or make a repair. Without outside assistance. On the other hand, no release in a port or with a couple of a ship, nor landing on land beyond the limit of the highest high tide.


This amendment was submitted to the main parties about ten days ago. Before the start, skippers and team managers will sign a declaration on honor for the respect of these racing rules.

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5 hours ago, serialsailor said:

 

https://www.ouest-france.fr/vendee-globe/vendee-arctique-sebastien-simon-j-y-vais-avec-prudence-quitte-a-mettre-le-pied-sur-le-frein-6882691

It's a pretty interesting concept, because instead of making two pairs of foils, we make three. 

Very cleaver idea.  Should save some money as well.  3 instead of 4 for spares.  Probably only works for C foils though and apart from AP and HB everyone else has gone in a different direction.

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Sebastien's new foils are looking pretty stable.

 

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Sebastien's new foils are looking pretty stable.

 

Those are the old foils.. the video is from the 8th of May.

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On 6/27/2020 at 6:03 AM, Chimp too said:

 

Surprised to see glue film within the skins. Looks like multiple cooks in the original skin. I would think that if you are engineering to these tight tolerances the build quality would have to be second to none. But these photos don’t suggest that.

Could it be just trying to get the boat ready for the Artic race in a few days and then repair it again?

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Could it be just trying to get the boat ready for the Artic race in a few days and then repair it again?

Terra, am looking at the original hull where they have ground it back. 

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11 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Sebastien's new foils are looking pretty stable.

 

Probably old footage recycled. Lorima only delivered the new curved C foils in middle of June and AP basically broke both foils and had a complete foil mechanism rebuild to comply with the rules. 

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

Probably old footage recycled. Lorima only delivered the new curved C foils in middle of June and AP basically broke both foils and had a complete foil mechanism rebuild to comply with the rules. 

Also love the editing. Every time the bow comes up and the foils are about to stall the footage cuts away.

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16 minutes ago, Chimp too said:

Also love the editing. Every time the bow comes up and the foils are about to stall the footage cuts away.

A shit show of a program that started off talking shit about AT before they even sailed a single mile in the new boat - noncompliance with the rules, breaks foils - not so fast, gets thrown under the bus by JK and now Corum is the new favored project. 
 

Didn’t see that coming from JK. Totally didn’t see that coming. 

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On 6/26/2020 at 1:03 PM, Chimp too said:

 

Surprised to see glue film within the skins. Looks like multiple cooks in the original skin. I would think that if you are engineering to these tight tolerances the build quality would have to be second to none. But these photos don’t suggest that.

Looks to me there is a splash mold that is attached to the outside of the hull in the image. A structural layup will be done on the inside, using the splash to get the correct shape. Then a bit of fairing, and an outside skin applied after the splash mold is removed. 

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8 hours ago, jhc said:

Looks to me there is a splash mold that is attached to the outside of the hull in the image. A structural layup will be done on the inside, using the splash to get the correct shape. Then a bit of fairing, and an outside skin applied after the splash mold is removed. 

Jhc, looking more closely I think you are right. I take it back 

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https://www.scanvoile.com/2020/06/kojiro-shiraishi-vendee-arctique-imoca-dmg-foiler.html#.XvnQ-frYqbg


Kojiro Shiraishi sees the Vendée-Arctic-Les Sables d'Olonne as an opportunity for him to push his boat towards its optimal performance but only when he feels safe to do so.

imoca_japonais.jpg
Credit: Th Deregnieaux

“ This is the last really deep-sea race before the Vendée Globe and it will be my first race aboard DMG MORI. I am happy to participate, however I will not push my boat fully for fun. The objective today is not only to know the limits of my boat but also my own limits. I'm not very young anymore and I have to take care of myself, ”

“ No IMOCA has ever been this far north in a race. I just want to go there, discover these conditions and come back to the good weather in France, ”. The main objective is to test the boat in all conditions and finish this race. The classification remains secondary.

On the VG.

“ Crossing the starting line is magic with all those supporters around us who encourage us. It is my dream to cross the finish line by being applauded by these same people. I also want to make ocean racing more popular in Asia and Japan. I want to show the world how incredible these IMOCA races are".

“ The boat is fast. I did not sail as much as I wanted because we were not ready and then it was not possible during the confinement period. I still managed to do some solo training, like last week where I did 2000 solo miles during which I learned a lot. The team is working hard to get the boat ready and pushing me to do my best. I am constantly learning on this boat and I am sure I will be ready for the races. "

Source IMOCA

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https://www.scanvoile.com/2020/06/Sam-davies-initiatives-coeur-au-depart-de-la-vendee-arctique-imoca.html#.XvnSlPrYqbg

Twenty-two skippers will compete on the 3,600-mile loop of the North Atlantic between the Vendée, Iceland and the Azores. Initiatives-Cœur, Sam Davies' objective will be to test her boat and to start raising funds to help Mécénat Chirurgie Cardiaque to save children.

davies%2Briou.jpg
Credit: Y Riou


" It feels great to return to normal life in the project!  The confinement was stressful. In my entire life, I have never spent so much time without sailing, ”

“ For the initial trips, I was a little afraid of being sick or of not being able to bear the shocks of the boat. But I immediately found my feelings on board, as if I had sailed the day before! It's like cycling, it can't be forgotten. "

. " I feel a strong expectation from those who follow us . They need to dream and are waiting to be told about our adventures. This is great because I love to share, it is a very important part of the Initiatives-Coeur project. "

Sam and her team will be able to relaunch the operation 1 click = 1 heart. Its mechanics are simple: for each new fan on the Initiatives Cœur Facebook and Instagram accounts, the sponsors (Initiatives, K-LINE and Vinci Énergies) donate € 1 to the Association Mécénat Chirurgie Cardiaque to support its action. 

The refit following the TJV included the installation of a new mast. " It's the same boat, only better! We made the right choices and today the machine is 200%. I have total confidence in her ”

Pole Finistère. "There were six other very good boats and it was interesting to have the confrontation and to sail on contact in various conditions. We were able to continue testing all the systems . "

Five full days before departure the sailors will be required to choose a place of containment. The day before the start of the event, they will be tested and will then leave their home port. They will then directly go to the starting line off Sables-d'Olonne. No racing village or physical contact with the public or the media. 

Source: O Connection

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On 6/29/2020 at 5:25 PM, Chimp too said:

Jhc, looking more closely I think you are right. I take it back 

Take my one back as well Chimp. QUOTE   "Terra, am looking at the original hull where they have ground it back. "

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Hey anyone know what's going on with 11th Hour Racing? Don't seem to be doing anything with the boat. The 11th Hour racing website shows no information whatsoever about the sailors and the boat, it's all about the cause. (Ocean Health). 

Just trying to get an understanding about how serious this campaign is or was it a case of buying Hugo Boss and not much else as an advertising vehicle for their cause? 

https://11thhourracing.org/about-us/

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27 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Hey anyone know what's going on with 11th Hour Racing? Don't seem to be doing anything with the boat. The 11th Hour racing website shows no information whatsoever about the sailors and the boat, it's all about the cause. (Ocean Health). 

Just trying to get an understanding about how serious this campaign is or was it a case of buying Hugo Boss and not much else as an advertising vehicle for their cause? 

https://11thhourracing.org/about-us/

It's confusing but the "11th hour racing" site is for "11th hour racing" the organisation, not the "11th hour racing team" TOR entry

https://11thhourracingteam.org/

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1 hour ago, JonRowe said:

It's confusing but the "11th hour racing" site is for "11th hour racing" the organisation, not the "11th hour racing team" TOR entry

https://11thhourracingteam.org/

Cheers that makes sense. No news on works to the boat at all so I presume they're taking her as she is. 

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Take my one back as well Chimp. QUOTE   "Terra, am looking at the original hull where they have ground it back. "

Ok Terra, I take that one back as well. :)

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11th Hour Racing is what happens when you have more money than sense and link up bunch of marketing buzz words like a word salad. 

Buys one of the most capable imocas. Sits on it. Starts building a new boat. Whooops. 
 

While harping about sustainability. 

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Out of the repair shed with a bit of humor in the paint job

 

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5 minutes ago, RedFlag said:

Boat in refit in a well known shipyard in Brittany...

CDK ?

 

Below they mention them building a new Verdier design with CDK and MerConcept ( F Gabart company) :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/bateau/60-pieds/imoca/11th-hour-racing-veut-reduire-l-impact-environnemental-des-voiliers-de-course-62a06276-9435-11ea-95c4-a36375d2e8e3

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43 minutes ago, ctutmark said:

Out of the repair shed with a bit of humor in the paint job

 

Remember when Ericsson did that with E3 after the fix in Taiwan. Or might have been Rio.

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34 minutes ago, yl75 said:

There’s another partially completed boat in Carrington that the customer is trying to sell too. 

Meanwhile while CCP continues to make bad press in HK and aggressive assertions of dash 9 against Vietnam/Philippines, border tension with India & general regression under Xi Jing Ping (despite what the cheerleaders and net citizens want to portray) - gonna be rough selling the ocean race in 2021, 2022 or 2023. It is going to be like going to Sochi for Formula 1 - there’s always going to be money chasers and program promotion ppl like Bernie E who will brush everything under the rug, but when it blows up in your face, it just becomes unsustainable like Middle Eastern state participation in sailing programs while engaging in civil war or something terrible at home. 

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41 minutes ago, Miffy said:

There’s another partially completed boat in Carrington that the customer is trying to sell too. 

Meanwhile while CCP continues to make bad press in HK and aggressive assertions of dash 9 against Vietnam/Philippines, border tension with India & general regression under Xi Jing Ping (despite what the cheerleaders and net citizens want to portray) - gonna be rough selling the ocean race in 2021, 2022 or 2023. It is going to be like going to Sochi for Formula 1 - there’s always going to be money chasers and program promotion ppl like Bernie E who will brush everything under the rug, but when it blows up in your face, it just becomes unsustainable like Middle Eastern state participation in sailing programs while engaging in civil war or something terrible at home. 

Really ? (about the Carrington boat)

But for sure that one cannot be initially for 11th hour right ?

Otherwise about TOR and geopolitics, I agree with you, quite compicated (not to forget that from a sailing perspective, having an Asian stop implies to add two doldrums crossings ..)

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9 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Really ? (about the Carrington boat)

But for sure that one cannot be initially for 11th hour right ?

Otherwise about TOR and geopolitics, I agree with you, quite compicated (not to forget that from a sailing perspective, having an Asian stop implies to add two doldrums crossings ..)

yah the hull is done - bulkheads and partitions done but not all installed. No deck. 
 

And I’ve bitched about this consistently before any covid or Xi got bold. 
 

All the rich ppl, if they even bother to show up, can guest sail in Auckland or Cape Town or any of the stopovers along the clipper route. They got money. They’ll enjoy it far more than brown water AIS blowing up or mingling with unwashed masses they’ll never associate with flooding the docks. 

but egos. 

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4 hours ago, Miffy said:

 yah the hull is done - bulkheads and partitions done but not all installed. No deck. 
  

And I’ve bitched about this consistently before any covid or Xi got bold. 
 

All the rich ppl, if they even bother to show up, can guest sail in Auckland or Cape Town or any of the stopovers along the clipper route. They got money. They’ll enjoy it far more than brown water AIS blowing up or mingling with unwashed masses they’ll never associate with flooding the docks. 

but egos. 

i thought the Carrington boat was maybe the Mapfre one before they hit pause?

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9 hours ago, eltelatron said:

i thought the Carrington boat was maybe the Mapfre one before they hit pause?

It was for the American backed team that was spawned out of a Wally Cento programme - I forget the name of the team, they're all listed in the latest Seahorse issue..

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23 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Cheers that makes sense. No news on works to the boat at all so I presume they're taking her as she is. 

I thought they were going to build a boat and the Boss was just a training platform (presumedly at a good deal to keep it out of the hands of this years VG teams) but I'm going off hearsay...

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So sounds like all the IMOCA builds specifically designed for TOR are on hold. Seems to me that IMOCA probably wish they had never got into bed with this idea. But if we only see modified IMOCA rather than any specifically designed for this event, the class might not be too hard hit.

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2 hours ago, Chimp too said:

So sounds like all the IMOCA builds specifically designed for TOR are on hold. Seems to me that IMOCA probably wish they had never got into bed with this idea. But if we only see modified IMOCA rather than any specifically designed for this event, the class might not be too hard hit.

IMO the IMOCA/TOR was set of a course towards failure, at least as far as new boats are concerned, the moment they started to introduce rules and a course that pushed the design in a different direction to that of the VG boats.  Opportunity missed and they are left with maybe a handful of older IMOCA retrofitted for the purpose and an equally old OD fleet. 

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There's an article from some of the 11th hour Team from their return delivery trip from Brazil after the Rhoute du Rhum - they did it in 'full crew' mode as per TOR (5 plus media person I think) and basically every comment was how much of fucking nightmare it was having that many people on an IMOCA. Admittedly the old Boss wasn't yet optimised for 5 crew but they still didn't seem that positive that it could be made much better whilst retaining the basic concept of an IMOCA/shorthanded structure.  

Who knows what's going to happen with crewed ocean races - with the likely speed gains with the V2 foils on the latest IMOCAs the current VO65s are going to spat out the back door once and for all. If there can't be a successful integration of crewed racing into IMOCA campaigns then will someone take the leap and propose an entirely new foiling class for crewed monohull racing? VO70f?

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No one sensible is going to build a new boat class for a race with unknown routing, no cash prizes of any significance and global economic predicament. 

Boat classes need critical mass of participants to be relevant. A longer larger boat just makes foiling more difficult and expensive - to ad more crew? Doesn’t make a lot of sense. 

Say if PRC starts arresting more HK and foreigners who say anything negative about the CCP - then voila, suddenly two equator crossings that nobody other than Chinese river yacht clubs wanted is cancelled and the boat design brief assumptions is basically wrong. 

The sensible approach from the get go would have to embrace an existing boat class without putting in more rules than necessary. 

What the TOR folks did was... oooo let’s limit it to foiling to be “new” but... also keep VO65 to keep assets relevant... but when reminded that VO65 will possibly be slower? *ban foilers from having autopilot* ppl ask... but how do you hand steer with only 4 crew? What if ppl get sick? It quickly becomes a safety problem. *ok autopilot okay but no true wind or apparent wind mode* ppl point out foils really change how autopilots work and humans can’t really handsteer from imoca helm positions on foils for very long *throws event away because reactionary rules without a strong foundation concept isn’t going to work*

*hits massive reset button*

they should just embrace all imocas - limit it to OD keel/rig not grandfathered in for safety. 3 crews + 1 OBR. 4 ppl’s personal gear for 20 days would approximate VG for one person so it wouldn’t affect boat weights too much. Sleep on a beanbag. 

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10 minutes ago, NZK said:

 

Who knows what's going to happen with crewed ocean races - with the likely speed gains with the V2 foils on the latest IMOCAs the current VO65s are going to spat out the back door once and for all. If there can't be a successful integration of crewed racing into IMOCA campaigns then will someone take the leap and propose an entirely new foiling class for crewed monohull racing? VO70f?

A VO70f class would clearly be the best, but tough to consider how it could  be supported by just one race every 4 years, with a real circuit maybe.

But indeed having a crewed Ocean race class makes sense, and difficult to imagine that it can truly be merged with a solo/duo Ocean race class.

And then the sponsoring money...

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5 hours ago, yl75 said:

A VO70f class would clearly be the best, but tough to consider how it could  be supported by just one race every 4 years, with a real circuit maybe.

But indeed having a crewed Ocean race class makes sense, and difficult to imagine that it can truly be merged with a solo/duo Ocean race class.

And then the sponsoring money...

Time to go Ultime, for the crewed RTW race. 40 days is just waiting to be knocked off.

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Was looking at interpretations and found this gem

 

interpretation_29-2020.pdf?version=c08a8

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45 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Was looking at interpretations and found this gem

 

interpretation_29-2020.pdf?version=c08a8

Interesting. The CRC doesn’t have the authority to interpret OSR, even with Simon on the committee. So not sure how they could issue this interpretation.

 I see that they don’t want this system to achieve rule compliance. But I can’t see it as being a bad thing if the keel is lost. 

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16 hours ago, yl75 said:

A VO70f class would clearly be the best, but tough to consider how it could  be supported by just one race every 4 years, with a real circuit maybe.

But indeed having a crewed Ocean race class makes sense, and difficult to imagine that it can truly be merged with a solo/duo Ocean race class.

And then the sponsoring money...

This was considered, and the rules drafted. But the CEO at the time was only interested in going with a Verdier IMOCA OD. 
discussions on a circuit were also put forwards. But no joy.

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16 hours ago, yl75 said:

A VO70f class would clearly be the best, but tough to consider how it could  be supported by just one race every 4 years, with a real circuit maybe.

But indeed having a crewed Ocean race class makes sense, and difficult to imagine that it can truly be merged with a solo/duo Ocean race class.

And then the sponsoring money...

Perhaps a crewed ocean race is unlikely to re-emerge until there is no longer a reliance on Arabian Peninsular and/or Chinese sponsorship money? The routings were notoriously unpopular with both crew and fans and the socio-political situations in these countries could limit interest from other sponsors??

 

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6 minutes ago, NZK said:

Perhaps a crewed ocean race is unlikely to re-emerge until there is no longer a reliance on Arabian Peninsular and/or Chinese sponsorship money? The routings were notoriously unpopular with both crew and fans and the socio-political situations in these countries could limit interest from other sponsors??

 

I think the traditional stopovers also created problems by virtually holding the organisers at ransom. Cape Town and Rio both saw the race as a cash cow and multiplied logistics fees etc making life more and more difficult and expensive. 

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16 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Time to go Ultime, for the crewed RTW race.

Sodebo were actively pushing this idea before the IMOCA decision was made.

Its very unlikely to happen anytime soon due to the costs and lack of international presence in the Ultim "class" (which barely exists now anyway, sound familiar?).

If the TOR folds maybe they could call the planned 2021 Ultim RTW crewed race the UOR?  Would be a lot more interesting to follow than a few old IMOCA and old VO65's roaming around some nonsense course and the non-sailing public that follows the TOR (are there any?) would probably appreciate the cooler boats as well.  Would only have a handful of boats, so they have that in common as well. :blink:

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21 minutes ago, jb5 said:

Sodebo were actively pushing this idea before the IMOCA decision was made.

Its very unlikely to happen anytime soon due to the costs and lack of international presence in the Ultim "class" (which barely exists now anyway, sound familiar?).

If the TOR folds maybe they could call the planned 2021 Ultim RTW crewed race the UOR?  Would be a lot more interesting to follow than a few old IMOCA and old VO65's roaming around some nonsense course and the non-sailing public that follows the TOR (are there any?) would probably appreciate the cooler boats as well.  Would only have a handful of boats, so they have that in common as well. :blink:

The MOD70s wanted the same. At the end of the day, the corporate VIPs that TOR care about, and that pay for the thing to happen, don’t give a fuck about the boats. The idea of sailing at night and using a carbon toilet is all they see, and all they care about is having a photo at the wheel of some boat that is doing this race thing that they got invited to get drunk at. The boats are irrelevant to the ones that matter to the event.

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As much as I love IMOCAs, I think doing another lap on the 65s to keep the thing ticking over is whats needed, and maybe invite the 70s back for some display racing on some legs.

Transat dash with the 65s and 70s? I think the sailing public would like that...

If you manage to survive financially after that, then go back to a fully open design in the 60/70 foot range next time around. If IMOCA designs make sense people will build things that overlap with IMOCAs, if they don't they won't.

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There will never be another “golden age” of open class design boats. Sponsors are too sophisticated now and understand if the class racing is close, it keeps the attention. And beyond a level of investment, it is just diminishing returns between winners and a bunch of fringe losers. Like in F1, or other aspirational top sports where money used to flow easy - in the modern economy, no one gets that except state enterprise and totalitarian regimes. 
 

Remember the last VOR created the longest competitive race to the very end. I understand some people follow the tech. Others follow the story. 

The 65s made it interesting and robust without it being reading about constant equipment failures and shitshow programs barely leaving the dock.

TBH at this point? With the impending economic crisis that’s trending to occur - even after the VG, I can see a lot of programs going under. The entire industry climate needs to think small and simple - instead of thinking 70ft, we need to think class 40 size programs that 5 sponsors with $100,000 can sustain a program. The class 40s can certainly safely make it around the world - just needs to make sure they’re not ask to sail by Cape Horn in March. 

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52 minutes ago, Miffy said:

TBH at this point? With the impending economic crisis that’s trending to occur - even after the VG, I can see a lot of programs going under. The entire industry climate needs to think small and simple - instead of thinking 70ft, we need to think class 40 size programs that 5 sponsors with $100,000 can sustain a program. The class 40s can certainly safely make it around the world - just needs to make sure they’re not ask to sail by Cape Horn in March. 

You’re absolutely right! 6 new build Class40s at current with another 5 yet to be announced. The Class is in an amazing position and with two very different RTW races (Globe40 & The Race Around) to look forward to it is sure to ride out this storm. Both races look to be rounding the Horn in late Jan/early Feb. 

Globe40 is going Cat1 and TRA Cat0 - will be interesting to see how they figure Cat0 out with these new max beam boats! 

 

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42 minutes ago, mad4it said:

 - will be interesting to see how they figure Cat0 out with these new max beam boats! 

 

Calculate it French style!!!

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

The class 40s can certainly safely make it around the world - just needs to make sure they’re not ask to sail by Cape Horn in March. 

I was going to point out the two races around but then...

18 minutes ago, mad4it said:

You’re absolutely right! 6 new build Class40s at current with another 5 yet to be announced. The Class is in an amazing position and with two very different RTW races (Globe40 & The Race Around) to look forward to it is sure to ride out this storm. Both races look to be rounding the Horn in late Jan/early Feb. 

Globe40 is going Cat1 and TRA Cat0 - will be interesting to see how they figure Cat0 out with these new max beam boats! 

:D:D Double handed though

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Never noticed but looks like Hugo Boss has hatches in the enclosed cockpit for head out under the boom? Didn’t think they were there before. They also moved a camera to the stanchions

6A14391A-8B63-4374-B203-E020296F4CAB.jpeg

1A3076E9-9837-42C4-9548-F42BDA8FBDB4.jpeg

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Globe40 double handed with some funky stop overs and The Race Around double and single handed on a traditional course no?

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4 hours ago, Chimp too said:

Calculate it French style!!!

What do you mean here? 

 

Also what makes the new boats tough to make cat 0?

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31 minutes ago, Icedtea said:

What do you mean here? 

4 hours ago, Chimp too said:

Calculate it French style!!!

 

get your mistress to help but go home and get your wife to check the workings afterwards.

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14 hours ago, Miffy said:

Never noticed but looks like Hugo Boss has hatches in the enclosed cockpit for head out under the boom? Didn’t think they were there before. They also moved a camera to the stanchions

I think the hatches were always there, just not used in early PR shots so not very visible. 

I suppose being aft of the foils helps shield them from loose headsail sheets that could hook them and flick them into the piss...

With hatches for ventilation/visibility in light winds combined with the heat/UV reflective paint and the obvious advantages of extra protection in heavy weather this whole concept looks like it could be quite beneficial - if you're going to spend 70+ days as a human pinball you may as well do it as dry as possible...

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45 minutes ago, NZK said:

I suppose being aft of the foils helps shield them from loose headsail sheets that could hook them and flick them into the piss...

This was referring to the cameras...

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Even allowing for a rotational unit they do seem pretty large - maybe they're a combo of standard and night-vision cameras? Would that explain the size?

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Charal off the dock heading for Les Sables- do not recall seeing the foam/fabric end plate piece between the boom and cabin top in other pics. Photo from Isabelle Delaune on FB. 

Image may contain: boat, sky, outdoor and water

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2 hours ago, NZK said:

Even allowing for a rotational unit they do seem pretty large - maybe they're a combo of standard and night-vision cameras? Would that explain the size?

Some of the day/IR integrates camera sensors on the market right now are fairly small but they are still IR illuminated and that just takes up more space. Garmin offers a few. 
 

Corum has some interesting cockpit layouts. 

DD8AC698-74EE-4530-9A65-66F9CE001845.png

F7158D7A-3166-4A44-B235-1F5EFF8E9486.png

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13 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Some of the day/IR integrates camera sensors on the market right now are fairly small but they are still IR illuminated and that just takes up more space. Garmin offers a few. 
 

Corum has some interesting cockpit layouts. 

DD8AC698-74EE-4530-9A65-66F9CE001845.png

F7158D7A-3166-4A44-B235-1F5EFF8E9486.png

Agreed on the unique cockpit layout of Corum with the diagonal winch/pedestal island, also 5x winches in the cockpit. Arkea/Paprec also has 5x winches.  Here's a pic of Apivia from earlier today showing their camera setup. I expect the piece below the camera is an IR illuminator  Image may contain: 1 person, outdoor

 

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in re Corum - I think the winch is actually not diagonal! It is the cockpit access doors! They’re neither symmetrical!

Some of the rule clarifications made this year, I suspect have to do with the ability of team at home base to remotely observe the sails and offer sail trim/mode reminders. 
 

 

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16 minutes ago, Miffy said:

in re Corum - I think the winch is actually not diagonal! It is the cockpit access doors! They’re neither symmetrical!

Some of the rule clarifications made this year, I suspect have to do with the ability of team at home base to remotely observe the sails and offer sail trim/mode reminders. 
 

 

doors appear to be symmetric at the forward corners of the cockpit on each side. The two small windows in the roof are positioned so a person grinding can look up through them 

1742975689_ScreenShot2020-05-21at3_43_08am.thumb.png.c73c8a43ccc83e314b483e1ff359257f.png

A88983F3-0225-40AC-B638-D64984907FA5.thumb.jpeg.479f3ad212be4e9a28fa84298dfc4999.jpeg

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Pip Hare's got a new title sponsor :D

 

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On 7/3/2020 at 2:56 AM, Miffy said:

Never noticed but looks like Hugo Boss has hatches in the enclosed cockpit for head out under the boom? Didn’t think they were there before. They also moved a camera to the stanchions

 

1A3076E9-9837-42C4-9548-F42BDA8FBDB4.jpeg

Fairly certain that those cameras were always there. If not those ones - similar in same position. The Hatches certainly make the enclosed/inside operation of this thing look much more reasonable. 

Really interested to see how the rest go in the Artique. Lots of performance to be shown, hidden and explained after...... Nervous skippers and Sponsors alike......

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25 minutes ago, Boink said:

Fairly certain that those cameras were always there. If not those ones - similar in same position. The Hatches certainly make the enclosed/inside operation of this thing look much more reasonable. 

Really interested to see how the rest go in the Artique. Lots of performance to be shown, hidden and explained after...... Nervous skippers and Sponsors alike......

Nope! They were previously mounted on the deck. 

39F89ECB-5F16-49CA-8A5D-AE7FED206795.png
 

edit: actually looking at photos from various phases, you’re probably right. They were added before TJV. 

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37 minutes ago, Miffy said:

edit: actually looking at photos from various phases, you’re probably right. They were added before TJV. 

They have certainly grown. First sightings on Debut shows the Mushroom like devices on those stanchions. Same Launch pics also show 4 deck hatches on top of the Dog House.

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Alex has the lightest and narrowest boat in the fleet. L"Occitanes next just a little beamier wth Alex at 5.40 and 5.80 for some of the other newer boats. Last time around he had the narrowest boat too. Potentially we have Alex as one of the oldest most experienced skippers up against some of the new and younger guns. I wonder who will spend more time helming than using Auto Pilot?

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On 6/30/2020 at 4:16 PM, ctutmark said:

Out of the repair shed with a bit of humor in the paint job

 

Is that the new norm to have the propeller that close to the back of the boat or is this something new ?

If so, is there any correlation with the very different hull shape ?

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Sam Manuard is bringing new ideas into imoca class and likely the intent is to shift the engine as far back as possible to keep the scow bow up. 

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13 hours ago, Boink said:

They have certainly grown. First sightings on Debut shows the Mushroom like devices on those stanchions. Same Launch pics also show 4 deck hatches on top of the Dog House.

interesting vendor job

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7 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Alex has the lightest and narrowest boat in the fleet. L"Occitanes next just a little beamier wth Alex at 5.40 and 5.80 for some of the other newer boats. Last time around he had the narrowest boat too. Potentially we have Alex as one of the oldest most experienced skippers up against some of the new and younger guns. I wonder who will spend more time helming than using Auto Pilot?

PRB is still the lightest boat in the fleet and will probably remain in that position for as long as she sails due to the rule changes after she was launched. 

Apparently the class measures say Arkea Paprec is the lightest new boat by some margin. 

HB may have a lower center of gravity due to the cockpit arrangement. 

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Welp - another program falling victim to JuanK. Like many before. He’ll walk away from this one, his first imoca in generations, first in foiling and pretend he had nothing to do with it  

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Speechless. Shit. 

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Incredible. Third foil breakage in what, 2 races? Hard to see them going around the globe now.

 

EDIT: 3rd race if you count the Fastnet they didn't finish either.

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13 minutes ago, GibGibGib said:

Incredible. Third foil breakage in what, 2 races? Hard to see them going around the globe now.

 

EDIT: 3rd race if you count the Fastnet they didn't finish either.

3rd foil - 2nd set. Major rebuild of foil bearing-mechanisms because it didn’t comply with imoca rules. 

JuanK did an interview earlier in the year and said something to the effect of PRB had thinner foils and didn’t break any so draw your own conclusions. Not exactly the kind of statement you want to hear from architect one took a gamble on returning to imoca. 

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jeezus

Talk about demoralizing. So much for the "spare".  

Very unsettling; they better have hit something. Something big.

How could one contemplate a Southern Ocean transit otherwise?

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1 hour ago, PHIRKIN said:

How could one contemplate a Southern Ocean transit otherwise?

A tough foil case, proven to stay intact when the foil breaks? :ph34r:

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9 hours ago, Chasm said:

A tough foil case, proven to stay intact when the foil breaks? :ph34r:

It is better for the foil to break before the boat of course. But if the foil breaks in relatively moderate conditions, without hitting something, does that provide much evidence of the toughness of the foil case?

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Might call up Bernard Stamm and ask how he managed after Cheminees Poujouat. 

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