Grande Mastere Dreade

boy is this girl in for a surprise..

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Greta Thunberg's zero carbon journey: 'I might feel a bit sea sick'

Climate change activist Greta Thunberg will spend two weeks travelling across the North Atlantic on a boat with no toilets, kitchens or privacy.

Greta, 16, has stopped flying due to environmental reasons, but is due to attend a crucial climate change conference in New York.

She told the BBC that travelling by boat sends a signal that "the climate change crisis is a real thing".

Electricity on the boat will solely come from wind turbines and solar panels, meaning the journey has a zero carbon footprint.

 

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WTF kind of sailboat is it that takes passengers across an ocean and has no galley or head?

Is she on a Laser or a Flying Scot :unsure:

Also note the boat damn well does have a carbon footprint unless it is a random log that they found................:rolleyes:

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they are very careful to say "the journey has a zero carbon footprint" not that the boat or freeze dried food she will carry has a zero carbon footprint.

just goes to show you how wacked out of their minds the liberal left is.

want to help out?

the solution

to pollution

is population

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Let’s not confuse “making a statement” with any facts ok?B)

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what a load of nonsense,

GRP/wood/steel/alu all have a carbon footprint

solar panels have a carbon footprint

wind generators have a carbon footprint

batteries have a carbon footprint

breathing has a carbon footprint

taking a shit in the ocean has a carbon footprint.

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5 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

WTF kind of sailboat is it that takes passengers across an ocean and has no galley or head?

Is she on a Laser or a Flying Scot :unsure:

Also note the boat damn well does have a carbon footprint unless it is a random log that they found................:rolleyes:

She will cross on Malizia, the IMOCA (Vendée Globe 60ft monohull) from Boris Hermann.

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8 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

A 60 foot boat has no galley or head? Really?????

It's a single-handed offshore race boat : the galley is most likely a Jetboil stove and the head a carbon fiber (weigh-savings...) bucket. Deal with it!

 

Eventhough it is not the same boat, here is a video on another IMOCA 60. The "galley" is shown at 3:30... Malizia must be pretty close to that...

 

 

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It's just been on the news. The bucket for this trip is plastic, not carbon, and has "Poo only" written on it, so she'll have to pee over the transom? Jetboil stove and freeze-dried. She said she was prone to sea sickness. Presumably with the IMOCA they will go south of the Azores? Still going to be a bumpy ride. Mr. Herman seemed to revel in pointing out how tough it will be for him, substantially sailing alone, though they did show her joining in on the pedestal. All good exposure for the sponsors, though, and a good reality check for her....

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51 minutes ago, Parma said:

they are very careful to say "the journey has a zero carbon footprint" not that the boat or freeze dried food she will carry has a zero carbon footprint.

just goes to show you how wacked out of their minds the liberal left is.

 

Hope she doesn't fart a lot.  Carbon footprint, you know. 

And she is self described as autistic. 

 

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24 minutes ago, hump101 said:

It's just been on the news. The bucket for this trip is plastic, not carbon, and has "Poo only" written on it, so she'll have to pee over the transom? Jetboil stove and freeze-dried. She said she was prone to sea sickness. Presumably with the IMOCA they will go south of the Azores? Still going to be a bumpy ride. Mr. Herman seemed to revel in pointing out how tough it will be for him, substantially sailing alone, though they did show her joining in on the pedestal. All good exposure for the sponsors, though, and a good reality check for her....

whatever else she was doing fine..  but that statement there  , is what i'm talking..  hopefully she'll get over her misery quickly or it's going to be a looong journey..

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Jfc, an open 60 with no carbon footprint? Each meter of raw pre preg is covered on two meters of plastic. The amount of landfill produced in one of these builds is staggering. 

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3 minutes ago, basketcase said:

Jfc, an open 60 with no carbon footprint? Each meter of raw pre preg is covered on two meters of plastic. The amount of landfill produced in one of these builds is staggering. 

Again, it's the journey, not the boat or the equipment or the food or anything else. It's the journey, the voyage, the movement only that she is talking about.

But even that is BS as there will certainly be some motoring at each end.

This is much more, maybe 100%, about her values validating in front of her equally wacko peers: "Lookit me!! I am sooooo much better'n you!"

If anyone wants to show her up ask her how racial diversity is demonstrated by her voyage and doesn't that just clearly demonstrate her white nationalist tendencies?

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Just another political stunt.

It falls into much the same category as taking a private jet to the conference.

Who gives a high carbon footprint shit?

As Parma indicated, she'd make a more important contribution by not having kids.

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

WTF kind of sailboat is it that takes passengers across an ocean and has no galley or head?

Is she on a Laser or a Flying Scot :unsure:

Also note the boat damn well does have a carbon footprint unless it is a random log that they found................:rolleyes:

No she is going to take a opti

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Are they going to be throwing their shit bucket into New York Harbor?

An Open 60 as a "low impact" travel device is a like a Formula 1 car being carbon free*

* as long as you get in at the top of a hill and roll to the bottom :rolleyes:

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Good luck, crazy person. We’ll be here waiting for your return. Just don’t take a dump overboard near our shore. Fecal coliform is a nuisance in our waterways thanks to you organic hippies.

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Pretty sure nobody that has posted here has defended that.  Pretty sure all they've said is that her trip is not going to be "zero emissions" even just for the journey, and that pretending otherwise is inaccurate.

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IMOCA should get with times and require holding tanks. 

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WOW, she's certainly taking her message to the right continent. She's just trying to do what she can! Good luck to her.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Just another political stunt.

It falls into much the same category as taking a private jet to the conference.

Who gives a high carbon footprint shit?

As Parma indicated, she'd make a more important contribution by not having kids.

^ this

She's smarter than you guys think. Look at all the attention she's gotten herself!  It's about the publicity.  And even if everyone says she's looney... well heck at least we've just had a conversation where most here may agree that it's about human population.

In what is now possibly the world's most polluting nation, think there's a correlation?

Pop_million-27982v9.jpg

 

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So far this kid has activated 1.4 million students in over a hundred countries to protest climate change. You want to sit around splitting hairs over the exact measurement of a unit of carbon or back the kid?

Go Greta Go!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg

 

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8 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

In what is now possibly the world's most polluting nation, think there's a correlation?

I thought that China or India was the most polluting?

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7 minutes ago, fufkin said:

So far this kid has activated 1.4 million students in over a hundred countries to protest climate change.

The problem I see with that is that they protest climate change, not the complete & undeniable source of the climate change.

if they really wanted to change the course of things they would protest population increases.

The solution

To pollution

Is....

Awwww Heck! You all know what the solution to pollution is.

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2 minutes ago, Parma said:

I thought that China or India was the most polluting?

Oops the India name on that graph didn't copy.  I think that China is starting to curb some of its worst air emissions (the least expensive part, the part we did in the 1970s).

Maybe this is where we stop and say Thanks Sam Walton, for building a portal back to 1890s manufacturing, from the US to China.  It's nice to see that your girls are now giving back some of the wealth, in the form of environmental private equity investments

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This young lady managed to get the grade 8's in my school out for a climate protest last school year. I haven't seen that kind of engagement in an environmental issue for many years.  I think fossil fuel dinosaurs have reason to fear her.  Hell a thread was started on SA about this - win for her because she got your attention. 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

As Parma indicated, she'd make a more important contribution by not having kids.

well she's 16, so that's probably not too high on her list.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

A 60 foot boat has no galley or head? Really?????

Had a tour of WOXI (or some iteration of it) pre-2015 transpac. 

100' long. No head. Fosters tap in one of the center bulkheads.

Priorities I guess.

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2 hours ago, Laurent said:

It's a single-handed offshore race boat : the galley is most likely a Jetboil stove and the head a carbon fiber (weigh-savings...) bucket. Deal with it!

 

Eventhough it is not the same boat, here is a video on another IMOCA 60. The "galley" is shown at 3:30... Malizia must be pretty close to that...

 

 

It actually is the same boat as this, Boris bought it after the Vendee 

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Of course an IMOCA 60 has a carbon footprint.  She's 16 but I'm sure she knows that.  It's a publicity stunt,  y'all say.  Well, *DUH*????  Aren't ALL professional sailors doing "publicity stunts"? What, the Volvo race isn't....wait a minute, it's got "VOLVO" in the name.  And Larry's boat is named "Oracle"...*gasp*.  Gosh, I wonder why.   Publicity stunts, every single one of them.

But seriously, if she was Jesus Christ, half of SA would piss on anything she had to say, just for the pure joy of pissing.

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I'd still fly, its public transit for 300 people at a time. Like a sky bus. Only with a head, now if only the sandwiches didnt cost $22.00

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3 hours ago, Parma said:

they are very careful to say "the journey has a zero carbon footprint" not that the boat or freeze dried food she will carry has a zero carbon footprint.

just goes to show you how wacked out of their minds the liberal left is.

want to help out?

the solution

to pollution

is population

 

I recall it as being, "The solution to pollution is dilution"??

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1 hour ago, Israel Hands said:

Oops the India name on that graph didn't copy.  I think that China is starting to curb some of its worst air emissions (the least expensive part, the part we did in the 1970s).

Maybe this is where we stop and say Thanks Sam Walton, for building a portal back to 1890s manufacturing, from the US to China.  It's nice to see that your girls are now giving back some of the wealth, in the form of environmental private equity investments

In 2015, the country that had the highest level of pollution was Qatar with an emission per capita of about 39.7 tons. Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates are in the second and third positions with 24.4 and 21.8 tons respectively. Closing the top five are Australia and Turkmenistan with 18.6 and 17.5 tons at the fourth and fifth positions respectively. Kazakhstan is tenth with about 15.2 emissions per capita.

 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-countries-produce-the-most-pollution.html

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Yes that's per capita. But that's where the population factor comes in. Airline pilots have been talking about the Asian brown cloud problem for decades. And when they do, they are talking about India and China.

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5 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I recall it as being, "The solution to pollution is dilution"??

Yeah, back in the day you could dump asbestos straight in the bin if you added in enough plaster board rubble.  

Neat, eh?

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https://www.activesustainability.com/environment/top-5-most-polluting-countries/

1. China (30%) The world’s most populated country has an enormous export market, which has seen its industry grow to become a serious danger to the planet. In just five provinces, which that host most of these industries ,more dioxide is emitted than in any other country in the world. As a consequence, Beijing has experienced, in recent years, constant red alerts for environmental pollution. 2. United States (15%) The world’s biggest industrial and commercial power. Although in recent times it has led the most important initiatives to combat climate change, in practice the great majority have been shown to be insufficient. Neither are its pollution levels limited to big cities; many rural areas are also beginning to notice the consequences. 3. India (7%) Fourteen out of the world’s 15 most contaminated cities are in India, says the World Health Organization. The country has had a law protecting air quality since 1981, but the burning of fossil fuels has grown significantly and as a consequence India occupies third place in the ranking of the most polluting countries in the world. 4. Russia (5%) The biggest country in the world geographically appears in this ranking for its high dependence on products such as oil, coal, gas and fossil fuels. Also, in the past few decades, it has experienced several environmental emergencies and has high levels of deforestation and animal hunting. 5. Japan (4%) Finally, the other great Asian power after China completes the list. Japan is the biggest consumer of fossil fuels in the world and the fifth largest emitter of greenhouse gases. This situation is due to its high level of urban development and industry that seems to care little for nature.

https://www.activesustainability.com/environment/top-5-most-polluting-countries/

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7 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

back in the day you could dump asbestos straight in the bin if you added in enough plaster board rubble.

As long as you keep it in solid form, not turning it to dust, you probably aren't doing any harm.  Still plenty of homes with exterior asbestos shingles on them.

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2 hours ago, fufkin said:

So far this kid has activated 1.4 million students in over a hundred countries to protest climate change. You want to sit around splitting hairs over the exact measurement of a unit of carbon or back the kid?

Go Greta Go!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg

 

Why do we live? Why did we choose our partners? Why growing up our kids and make them able to cope with the world. Shit happened that some of them speak up. Hey, relax and give them the attention they deserve. We will be Albatrosses in 30 years time and its their world to live in.

SA style would have been to ask her showing her boyfriend´s ... instead of this most of you start whining and look for arguments. Greta got you, pussies!

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TBF to all those involved - Malizia/Boris/Monaco Yacht Club's entire focus is marketing/publicity anyway so if he's going to have to cross the Atlantic to get to the start line of an IMOCA event, what's the big deal with bringing along a kid and her dad?

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I hope the trip goes well.

I just can't help choking at the idea of high end yacht racing being "zero carbon" in any way and throwing shit over the side in a bucket, while not really harmful outside of a confined area, is not exactly bolstering the green cred :rolleyes: Also illegal inside the 3 mile (or is it 12) limit ;)

(not to mention that if Ms. Thunberg does not take to ocean sailing, being trapped with an unhappy sick teenaged girl is my idea of hell :o )

EDIT - maybe I am looking at this all wrong? Maybe she will actually like the boat and tell her apparently large young audience that sailing is really cool and they need to go down to the club and sign up for jr. sailing ASAP! That really would be cool :D

EDIT 2- Just did some quick calculations and it is hardly any different for me to fly or sail to the UK, carbon wise. My "share" of the fuel on a heavily loaded 747 would be around 20-30 gallons. I would probably use that much gas for electricity, harbour, and calms in my own boat.  

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Funny, no poop complaints on the new zero carbon Hugo Boss thread.  Either he can hold it for a long time or the double standard is glaring. 

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Had a tour of WOXI (or some iteration of it) pre-2015 transpac. 

100' long. No head. Fosters tap in one of the center bulkheads.

Priorities I guess.

Sorry, but I’m calling bullshit that WOXI doesn’t have a head. 

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15 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Sorry, but I’m calling bullshit that WOXI doesn’t have a head. 

I don't know about the current version, but that version did not.

My wife's reaction was :huh:

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39 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I don't know about the current version, but that version did not.

My wife's reaction was :huh:

It would have been there somewhere.  Not as a room that you or the wife may have recognised,  but there needs to be one for IRC.  That doesn't mean it has to be truly accessible or useable.  In the old days of IOR one of the boats I sailed had it Jubilee clipped to the base of the mast,  all plumbing attached & working but impossible to sit on.

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1 hour ago, Ripply said:

Funny, no poop complaints on the new zero carbon Hugo Boss thread.  Either he can hold it for a long time or the double standard is glaring. 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Where is this thread???

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6 hours ago, fufkin said:

So far this kid has activated 1.4 million students in over a hundred countries to protest climate change. You want to sit around splitting hairs over the exact measurement of a unit of carbon or back the kid?

Go Greta Go!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg

 

 

4 hours ago, Alan H said:

Of course an IMOCA 60 has a carbon footprint.  She's 16 but I'm sure she knows that.  It's a publicity stunt,  y'all say.  Well, *DUH*????  Aren't ALL professional sailors doing "publicity stunts"? What, the Volvo race isn't....wait a minute, it's got "VOLVO" in the name.  And Larry's boat is named "Oracle"...*gasp*.  Gosh, I wonder why.   Publicity stunts, every single one of them.

But seriously, if she was Jesus Christ, half of SA would piss on anything she had to say, just for the pure joy of pissing.

I suspect the negative reaction to this young woman’s venture has two roots.

First, it is a bit of a BS publicity stunt;

Second, I’m hearing a bunch of cranky old folks that seem jealous of a young person with a big following who is trying to make a difference, Grampa and Gramma – it’s not a good look. You should be encouraging the next generation.

Sailing, especially at the high end is all about publicity and marketing – and yes this is a PR stunt. Seriously how does the America’s cup make for better software or superior “drivers' cars”. How does sailing around the world make for better trucks or cars or paint or wind turbines. Stop the hypocrisy – of course it is bullshit marketing.

We regularly have threads about the death of sailing, how will we be getting people back into sailing...etc.

WAKE THE FUCK UP – here we have a star of the teenage world, with million+ followers and lots of media coverage choosing to make a statement by sailing. This thread should be all about how does the sailing community build on this fantastic PR opportunity to promote sailing to a new generation rather than crapping on a teenage girl who is trying to do good.

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It may not be an enclosed room but of course they have a head.  There is no way they are going to have somebody walking through a slamming and bashing IMOCA 60 with a bucket of poop and spill it all over the place.  If they said they are separating the pee from the poo, my guess is that it might now be a composting toilet.  This is all so silly.  If you are in the middle of the ocean, let it rip.   Anybody who has been in the tropics and flushed their head knows that fish love to eat poo.  It must be full of vitamins.

 

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She's a 16 yr old girl, you guys don't think there's a head with privacy.

Edit

They agreed to take on a 16 yr old girl as crew across the Atlantic ocean.

You don't think there's an enclosed head?

 

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3 minutes ago, KC375 said:

 

I suspect the negative reaction to this young woman’s venture has two roots.

First, it is a bit of a BS publicity stunt;

Second, I’m hearing a bunch of cranky old folks that seem jealous of a young person with a big following who is trying to make a difference, Grampa and Gramma – it’s not a good look. You should be encouraging the next generation.

Sailing, especially at the high end is all about publicity and marketing – and yes this is a PR stunt. Seriously how does the America’s cup make for better software or superior “drivers' cars”. How does sailing around the world make for better trucks or cars or paint or wind turbines. Stop the hypocrisy – of course it is bullshit marketing.

We regularly have threads about the death of sailing, how will we be getting people back into sailing...etc.

WAKE THE FUCK UP – here we have a star of the teenage world, with million+ followers and lots of media coverage choosing to make a statement by sailing. This thread should be all about how does the sailing community build on this fantastic PR opportunity to promote sailing to a new generation rather than crapping on a teenage girl who is trying to do good.

I don't think most people  are attacking her and I for one am not jealous.   What makes people get their back up is the media spin and the constant hypocrisy of the Greenies and the reporting.

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I do give her credit.   Maybe she can convince Al Gore to sell some of his homes and stop jet setting around the world in private airplanes.

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2 minutes ago, opusnz said:

I don't think most people  are attacking her and I for one am not jealous.   What makes people get their back up is the media spin and the constant hypocrisy of the Greenies and the reporting.

I fully acknowledge this is a BS publicity stunt.

Maybe I’m wrong about the jealous grumpy old farts.

But I’m also amused – I didn’t read a lot of bitching about the hypocrisy of Dee Caffari and Turn the Tide on plastic ...seriously how much environmental benefit came from that trip around the world.

The more important point is we have a great positive PR opportunity for sailing and instead much of the energy is negative and cynical. This thread does not read like a bunch of people who are genuinely looking for ways to build the sport. That’s OK – this is SA where it is fair game to shit on anyone – but it might also give some insight into why young people are not taking up the sport.  

 

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But KC, that opportunity is only valuable if we are honest about the pluses and the minuses of sailing...pretending that we are zero carbon is being hypocritical.  We need to be intellectually honest to truly make meaningful headway...on this or any problem we face.

 

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Jeez, the Sailing Reich is pathetic. 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Jeez, the Sailing Reich is pathetic. 

Indeed, an awful lot of SOF's are showing their true colors, pretty disgusting really.

I am ashamed to be seeing this on SA, I thought ppl go to PA for this kind of hate, or better go the new SR forum !

 

Edited by Fiji Bitter
Indeed

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3 hours ago, TUBBY said:

It would have been there somewhere.  Not as a room that you or the wife may have recognised,  but there needs to be one for IRC.  That doesn't mean it has to be truly accessible or useable.  In the old days of IOR one of the boats I sailed had it Jubilee clipped to the base of the mast,  all plumbing attached & working but impossible to sit on.

^^^^ This. Probably buried under a pile of sails....

I remember an old French AC yacht “Revolution” dubbed “Revolootion” because they had the heads mounted on the stern, in Port at least, and I seem to recall seeing  it or a photo of it once at Cowes with the loo filled with baguettes.........

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

 

I suspect the negative reaction to this young woman’s venture has two roots.

First, it is a bit of a BS publicity stunt;

Second, I’m hearing a bunch of cranky old folks that seem jealous of a young person with a big following who is trying to make a difference, Grampa and Gramma – it’s not a good look. You should be encouraging the next generation.

Sailing, especially at the high end is all about publicity and marketing – and yes this is a PR stunt. Seriously how does the America’s cup make for better software or superior “drivers' cars”. How does sailing around the world make for better trucks or cars or paint or wind turbines. Stop the hypocrisy – of course it is bullshit marketing.

We regularly have threads about the death of sailing, how will we be getting people back into sailing...etc.

WAKE THE FUCK UP – here we have a star of the teenage world, with million+ followers and lots of media coverage choosing to make a statement by sailing. This thread should be all about how does the sailing community build on this fantastic PR opportunity to promote sailing to a new generation rather than crapping on a teenage girl who is trying to do good.

This.

 

SO so so so so so THIS.

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11 hours ago, fufkin said:

So far this kid has activated 1.4 million students in over a hundred countries to protest climate change. You want to sit around splitting hairs over the exact measurement of a unit of carbon or back the kid?

Go Greta Go!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greta_Thunberg

 

Or alternatively she got 1.4 million students to take a day off school illegally, I doubt many were interested in climate change most would have gone home to use their games machine..

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8 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

 

(not to mention that if Ms. Thunberg does not take to ocean sailing, being trapped with an unhappy sick, opinionated, preachy, ignorant, PITA teenaged girl is my idea of hell :o )

FIFY

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16 hours ago, Parma said:

just goes to show you how wacked out of their minds the liberal left is

Every time someone says something like this it just goes to show that right-wing elites have a "one world, one mentality" mindset.  Anyone who challenges their way of thinking is by definition "wacked out," "liberal," and "left."

Here's news for you, Parma: if you're half as old as your comment suggests, the world doesn't really belong to you anymore.  It belongs to Greta and all the upcoming generations who will have to cope with and clean up the mess that the industrial generations up to now have made.  You'll be gone before the shit really hits the fan, environmentally speaking.  

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7 hours ago, opusnz said:

I don't think most people  are attacking her and I for one am not jealous.   What makes people get their back up is the media spin and the constant hypocrisy of the Greenies and the reporting.

If you're not a Greenie you're part of the problem.

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32 minutes ago, LesC said:

If you're not a Greenie you're part of the problem.

With her stated problem with sea sickness she will be a greenie for a while at least. 

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40 minutes ago, LesC said:

Every time someone says something like this it just goes to show that right-wing elites have a "one world, one mentality" mindset.  Anyone who challenges their way of thinking is by definition "wacked out," "liberal," and "left."

Here's news for you, Parma: if you're half as old as your comment suggests, the world doesn't really belong to you anymore.  It belongs to Greta and all the upcoming generations who will have to cope with and clean up the mess that the industrial generations up to now have made.  You'll be gone before the shit really hits the fan, environmentally speaking.  

Someone claiming the other side always calls them names without once bothering to look in the mirror. How surprising. 

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13 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Had a tour of WOXI (or some iteration of it) pre-2015 transpac. 

100' long. No head. Fosters tap in one of the center bulkheads.

Priorities I guess.

Nobody drinks Fosters!!!

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3 minutes ago, mad said:
13 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Had a tour of WOXI (or some iteration of it) pre-2015 transpac. 

100' long. No head. Fosters tap in one of the center bulkheads.

Priorities I guess.

Nobody drinks Fosters!!!

so you our caulleng BS?

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

Nobody drinks Fosters!!!

Maybe it was used to flush the toilet?

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10 hours ago, Monkey said:

Sorry, but I’m calling bullshit that WOXI doesn’t have a head. 

I'm calling bullshit on the Fosters. :P

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2 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:
6 minutes ago, mad said:
14 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Had a tour of WOXI (or some iteration of it) pre-2015 transpac. 

100' long. No head. Fosters tap in one of the center bulkheads.

Priorities I guess.

Nobody drinks Fosters!!!

so you our caulleng BS?

Image result for foster's lager is shit

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2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

(not to mention that if Ms. Thunberg does not take to ocean sailing, being trapped with an unhappy sick, opinionated, preachy, ignorant, PITA teenaged girl is my idea of hell :o )

I don't need to be reminded every 5 minutes by this 'put on a pedestal by the tree hugging lobby' 16 y/o that my lifestyle will blow up the planet, no thanks.

If some of you think that she is the savior of Ocean Racing and that all the me me me, want want want teenagers will take up carbon built Open 60 sailing you need your head checked.

If her credentials were really green she would have taken a ride on Tres Hombres, Avontuur, Nordlys and a few other ancient 'pre carbon neutral bollocks'  truly green boats.

But I guess they don't float her carbon neutral boat.

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57 minutes ago, Laser1 said:

I don't need to be reminded every 5 minutes by this 'put on a pedestal by the tree hugging lobby' 16 y/o that my lifestyle will blow up the planet, no thanks.

If some of you think that she is the savior of Ocean Racing and that all the me me me, want want want teenagers will take up carbon built Open 60 sailing you need your head checked.

If her credentials were really green she would have taken a ride on Tres Hombres, Avontuur, Nordlys and a few other ancient 'pre carbon neutral bollocks'  truly green boats.

But I guess they don't float her carbon neutral boat.

that and it will take a bit longer to arrive at the other side.

 

Say what you want, it is a lot less hypocrite than a private jet.

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2 hours ago, Laser1 said:

 

If her credentials were really green she would have taken a ride on Tres Hombres, Avontuur, Nordlys and a few other ancient 'pre carbon neutral bollocks'  truly green boats.

But I guess they don't float her carbon neutral boat.

Maybe they weren’t headed to NYC in time for the meeting.  Article in the NYT this morning says she has more than 800,000 Twitter followers. Doesn’t sound like she expects a bed of roses. They leave today from Plymouth.

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10 hours ago, Crash said:

But KC, that opportunity is only valuable if we are honest about the pluses and the minuses of sailing...pretending that we are zero carbon is being hypocritical.  We need to be intellectually honest to truly make meaningful headway...on this or any problem we face.

 

Crash I suspect your post may have been intended to be in fuchsia sarcastic font. In case it was intended in the sincere black font.

Valuable in what sense? As a genuine effort to address global warming?...I couldn’t agree more that there is a frightening absence of truth on all sides (The original IPCC report grossly misrepresented the views of contributing scientist and industry has a long history of using sponsored research, pseudo science and lobbying to protect profits rather than society).

I believe Greta is probably sincere in her efforts to contribute to what she believes is an important cause. Is her traveling by sailboat a meaningful reduction in “carbon footprint”  probably not a material saving as opposed to being one of 300 passengers on a commercial airline.

But is that the right or even relevant measure? Yes it would be great if all leaders of all movements adopted Gandhi’s “be the change” but few do. Is Greta’s “stunt” effective – as a PR vehicle it seems to be. If facts and sincerity are required for effective influence campaigns you seem to have missed decades of tobacco, drinks, pharma advertising not to mention a few dozen election cycles.

The high end of sailing depends on PR/marketing benefit of the sport (be that AC, Volvo, or the Olympics). If we demand truth and sincerity in that messaging...well back to Corinthian sailing (that might not be so bad).

There is a reason Vestas and Turn the Tide backed Volvo boats – sailing can be a complementary platform for environmentally oriented messages. If we want to promote sailing to a new generation we should not just acknowledge that but endorse that opportunity. Who knows, in addition to promoting sailing it might even do some global good – for those who believe that, great it adds some feel good, for the cynics – well at least you get support for sailing.

Here we have a kid with enormous enthusiasm for a noble cause (some would agree with noble some might say misguided but I don’t think any would say ill intentioned) with a tremendous following and ability to generate positive PR.

If SA cares about the future of sailing it should take a break from the snarky, cynical, piss on everyone attitude it frequently manifests and instead champion this opportunity to both support and benefit from a great marketing opportunity. Get the SA logo and world sailing logo on that boat, throw a welcome party on arrival hosted by a dozen world class junior sailors....

 

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So... the naysayers would turn down a ride on IMOCA 60 to instead get on an aeroplane?  Go and log yourselves out now!!  

And, fwiw, building an IMOCA probably doesn't use a great proportion more carbon fibre and highly energy intensive materials than an airliner per person.

Definitely not burning fuel and, as it's built from Carbon fibre will be extremely durable (significantly longer lifetime than fibreglass imo)

 

.. "Each 787 contains approximately 77,000 pounds (35 metric tons) of carbon fiber reinforced polymer (CFRP), made with 51,000 lb (23 t) of carbon fiber."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner

"A jumbo jet (Boeing 747-400) flying from London to New York burns approximately 70,000 kilograms of fuel. Jet fuel has an approximate specific gravity of 0.85, which therefore equates to 82,353 litres.

https://www.flightdeckfriend.com/ask-a-captain/how-much-fuel-does-a-jumbo-jet-burn/

" Looking at the likely number of passengers, the range and the fuel capacity, the fuel consumption figures for the A380, Boeing 787, 777, and 747 very comparable. "

http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2012/05/dreamliner/

 

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Would I pass up the opportunity to sail across the ocean on an IMOCA 60?  Hell no, but...

British Airways flys about 100,000 people a year just from London Heathrow to JFK.  That's just one airline on one route.  How many IMOCA 60's do you need to carry that many passengers?  What is the amount of carbon fibre you need to do that?  Never mind that to do it in any modicum of comfort (not that flying economy in the back of a airliner is comfortable anymore), you'd have to add a galley, and a head, and holding tanks, etc, etc, which would then need more material, even if all made of carbon...etc, etc, etc...

 

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The engine is being sealed as per most ocean racing. Torqeedos powered by batteries charged from turbine / solar panels en-route will be used for docking.  

The construction of the boat is undoubtedly not carbon neutral. However, it's already built, using the wind to move it across the ocean will not increase it's carbon footprint.

So, I'd say it's a fair attempt by the girl. 

This isn't a proof of concept advocating IMOCAs as some sort of transport solution for cross Atlantic travel. But, it does seem to be a sincere attempt to be the change she is preaching. At the very least its an effective way to communicate the message that air travel burns considerable amounts of fuel.  

Of course, some are just opposed to the idea of climate change and they will throw absolutism ideals at the trip "well if she farts en route then it's not carbon neutral, therefore her carbon neutral trip is void and therefore taking any action to reduce carbon is void and therefore tackling climate change is void and even the fact that the climate is changing is void!"

Most rationale people can see that it effectively communicates three things:

1) It demonstrates her conviction

2) People may question their own travel or broader lifestyle choices 

3) That more IMOCAs should be on UK breakfast news

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...so skyhooking some numbers, that comes out to the equivalent of 3.4 tanks of fuel for my car, per passenger, to cross The Pond one way via jumbo jet.

While that's less than I expected, it's not the real issue with airlines and climate change, is it?  The fact that so many of these planes line the sky with trails of post-combustion CO2 etc and vapor cloud every day is the real issue, right? 

I have a feeling that in the end we will find that aviation has caused more climate change than any of us would like to admit.  Because we don't like the idea of limiting our ability to travel so easily.

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Seat MPG is what you are looking for - SMPG

Cessna150, gets about 22 MPG but only hold 2 people. 44 SMPG

Piper Saratoga, gets about 10 MPG but holds 6 people. 60 SMPG

747 is more like 5 gallons per mile, but can hold 500 or more people. Depending on passenger load, you are around 75-100 SMPG.

Anyone driving any kind of car solo that isn't an electric recharged from a nuke plant/wind/solar/hydro is probably doing worse than any of these airplanes.

The guy with the big cheap old motoryacht with twin 12 cylinder Detroit Diesels is probably using around 80 GPH to go 20 knots and polluting more than probably every common-rail diesel boat in the marina combined :o:o

 

I think it would be great to leverage this into getting kids interested in sailing, but if anyone ever digs into all the gas used by an Opti regatta between towing the boats there and the coach boats...................might not work out like you thought :rolleyes:

 

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Environmental activist Greta Thunberg is due to set sail from the UK, bound for UN climate summits in New York and Chile.

Fans gathered to wave her off on her voyage across the Atlantic.

The 16-year-old made a speech ahead of departing from Plymouth in the Malizia II, a solar-powered racing yacht with underwater turbines.

:blink::wacko:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-49330423

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26 minutes ago, Crash said:

Would you pass up the opportunity to sail across the ocean on an IMOCA 60?  Hell no, but...

Ehm,  yes, want this like a hole in the head with this forecast :lol:

 

Windy.jpg

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1 hour ago, KC375 said:

 

If SA cares about the future of sailing it should take a break from the snarky, cynical, piss on everyone attitude it frequently manifests and instead champion this opportunity to both support and benefit from a great marketing opportunity. Get the SA logo and world sailing logo on that boat, throw a welcome party on arrival hosted by a dozen world class junior sailors....

 

 

Championing a ridiculously hypocritical 16 yr old  girl in puberty is not a smart idea for anybody or any purpose, even the green movement. Yes, it attracts attention but ultimately garners more ridicule than agreement.

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The science and the political/socioligical aspects are above my mental pay grade.  Way simpler that way. 

As a sailor, this is probably going to be good publicity for sailing.   Good.

And I hope they have a smooth trip with no assistance needed.  'Cause if they do need rescue, the carbon footprint of helicopters or Coast Guard craft in a near-shore rescue, or AMVER diverting a merchant ship in deep ocean, will be pretty huge.

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56 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Seat MPG is what you are looking for - SMPG

Cessna150, gets about 22 MPG but only hold 2 people. 44 SMPG

Piper Saratoga, gets about 10 MPG but holds 6 people. 60 SMPG

747 is more like 5 gallons per mile, but can hold 500 or more people. Depending on passenger load, you are around 75-100 SMPG.

Anyone driving any kind of car solo that isn't an electric recharged from a nuke plant/wind/solar/hydro is probably doing worse than any of these airplanes.

The guy with the big cheap old motoryacht with twin 12 cylinder Detroit Diesels is probably using around 80 GPH to go 20 knots and polluting more than probably every common-rail diesel boat in the marina combined