sailorman44

torsion rope as structural head stay

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Some time ago, a couple of years?, there was a thread about using a torsion rope as a structural head stay. Anybody remember that? I remember that Railmeat for one had experience and commented. I have searched the forum but have found no reference to it. I am considering changing the head stay setup on my boat and have a torsion rope and furler that could be used. What are the pros and cons?

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My forestay goes slack when the td furler is nice and taut.  It also pulls the bend out of the mast of course.  Obviously good for downhill but not up.  And you need to have it tight for a good furl or the drum will just twist and wrap the furling line along with it.

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If designed for it, yes. Many new cruising boats with composite rigging have torsional headstays, as well as all the IMOCA headstays. It is possible to make a headstay to designed load/stretch, and then cover it to make it take torsion.

 

Clamp/Stitched style cables are not structural.

 

HW

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Yep. I use a Future Fibers cable. Structural furler pinned to the stem, cable tacked to the furler then pinned to a Karver swivel that is lashed to the mast.  The sail is lashed at tack and head. 

I replace them based on miles. Roughly every 25 K or so. 

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I have a Future Fibers cable attached to  a Karver structural furler pinned to the stem also. Difference to Rail Meats setup is I have a Karver lock on an attachment at the top of the cable. This attachment is connected between the cable & swivel, which is connected to the flange on the masthead. I can either use a soft hanked sail on a Genoa halyard and not furl (J1, 3,4, Jib Top, Blast reacher), or pull it up to the lock, lash the tack, and furl(J1, Blast Reacher). Soft hanks are custom singlehanded hanks that I developed. Best of both worlds. Works like a charm.

Pakala is an Express 37, based in Marina del Rey, usually sailed singlehanded.

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Hello Joe, 

can you explain more your set up, i do not get it how exactly you transition to non furl to furl.
Also, can you show us you soft hanks?

THX!!

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On 8/19/2019 at 12:43 AM, joe.barry said:

I have a Future Fibers cable attached to  a Karver structural furler pinned to the stem also. Difference to Rail Meats setup is I have a Karver lock on an attachment at the top of the cable. This attachment is connected between the cable & swivel, which is connected to the flange on the masthead. I can either use a soft hanked sail on a Genoa halyard and not furl (J1, 3,4, Jib Top, Blast reacher), or pull it up to the lock, lash the tack, and furl(J1, Blast Reacher). Soft hanks are custom singlehanded hanks that I developed. Best of both worlds. Works like a charm.

Pakala is an Express 37, based in Marina del Rey, usually sailed singlehanded.

Question for you, if the lock fails does your rig come down or do you have some other form of supporting the rig from the bow?

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4 hours ago, Moonduster said:

The cable holds the rig up, the lock holds the sails up.

He said the lock is at the top of the cable, between the cable and the swivel so If the lock fails so does the rig? 

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The headstay cable does not have a swivel. The headstay is attached to the mast head. The lock is attached to the cable. The swivel is part of the furler that was hoisted onto the lock. The cable holds the rig up. The lock holds up the sail via the swivel.

 

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3 hours ago, Moonduster said:

The headstay cable does not have a swivel. The headstay is attached to the mast head. The lock is attached to the cable. The swivel is part of the furler that was hoisted onto the lock. The cable holds the rig up. The lock holds up the sail via the swivel.

 

That is ambiguous, he has two cables? 

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On 8/19/2019 at 12:43 AM, joe.barry said:

I have a Future Fibers cable attached to  a Karver structural furler pinned to the stem also. Difference to Rail Meats setup is I have a Karver lock on an attachment at the top of the cable. This attachment is connected between the cable & swivel, which is connected to the flange on the masthead. I can either use a soft hanked sail on a Genoa halyard and not furl (J1, 3,4, Jib Top, Blast reacher), or pull it up to the lock, lash the tack, and furl(J1, Blast Reacher). Soft hanks are custom singlehanded hanks that I developed. Best of both worlds. Works like a charm.

Pakala is an Express 37, based in Marina del Rey, usually sailed singlehanded.

I looked at the Karver locking swivel. There is an on line video showing its operation. A neat piece of gear that seems to do the job. Like badia420 I don't quite understand how you use it. From you description you are not using it as shown in the video. Also, if the tack is pinned at the deck and the swivel attached to the masthead, how do you tension the cable head stay? Further, if the locking swivel is used as intended it is not useful as part of a structural head stay as releasing the lock would release the cable leaving you without a head stay.

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Here is how Pakala"s Structural headstay works. If you have any questions, contact me directly.

At the top of the mast, the swivel is attached to the mast head tang. A Karver KHL swivel link is attached to the swivel, and the Torsion rope is attached to the bottom of the Link. The lock is lashed to the offset hole in the link.

See the diagram "Top Of Forestay"

70885174_ScreenShot2019-08-27at10_01_52PM.thumb.png.a14b1ff63b68a879069ae76b9e794123.png

 

The bottom of the headstay is the photo below. The 1/8 dyneema running through the Karver blocks is the lock halyard. This halyard is coiled and lashed to the headstay as it needs to rotate with the lock and cable. The furling sail tack is lashed to bottom of cable. Furler is attached to the existing headstay tang. A non furling sail is hanked around the stay and a standard genoa halyard is used.

IMG_2578.thumb.jpg.b327adc998412d81c56fb3d5fb3d1884.jpg

Below is the Code 0, Blast Reacher, and Genoa or Spinnaker Staysail. All furling.The staysails have a swivel halyard lock.  If the sail off the sprit is furled, it is dropped to lessen windage. This setup was designed for long distance, single-handed racing. Yes there are a lot of strings.

IMG_2853.thumb.jpg.c7b3afb8b1cd5054f12a84100b745f30.jpg

Soft shackles are a variation of a carbon disk and embedded loop of dyneema. SWL was 800lbs. You can see that the sail can be flaked or furled. This is the flaked blast reacher.

1007287211_IMG_2766(1).thumb.jpg.c71d62d5d1cab70154996dc1f964a447.jpg

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