TP 52 Deal?

[Editor 257]

Asking price is $190,000. Is that a deal for this boat? Jump in and discuss.

[ease hike trim 19]

Cheap buy-in to a world of mind boggling expense.

[glexpress 59]

It depends, are you racing the 52 circuit or just collecting pickle dishes in local regattas?

 

Nice shot of the boat to use for a sale with a guy pissing off the back.

[Swimsailor 650]

Damn, mid-late 2000's were some ugly years for cabin top designs.  But old TP52's seem to have pretty incredible afterlives.  I'm not sure there's another big boat class  out there with such a deep pool of boats that are still racing.  We're close to 20 years on since Yassou/Victoria/Alta Vita/J-Bird, aren't we?  It looks like there are only 4 or 5 in S2H so far this year but there were 10 last year.  Depending on the size of my lotto winnings, I'd take a look older TP52's for sure.

[Hugh Janus 26]

is that the price of a new carbon stick for this beater?

[RobbieB 705]

During the recession you could buy property, (lots) in exclusive golf communities for $1.  However, the annual HOA dues were $25,000+ for the same $1 lot....

[EastCoastHustle 25]

anyone have a link to the listing

 

[Editor 257]

click on the pic and there it is

[Ned 33]

Getting in is one thing.  Staying in is entirely different cash flow physics. 

[Left Shift 1,623]

4 minutes ago, Ned said:

Getting in is one thing.  Staying in is entirely different cash flow physics. 

But they are sure fun to sail.  Educational too!

[Parma 178]

1 hour ago, Editor said:

click on the pic and there it is

nope

[Hugh Janus 26]

to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in.  Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game.

 

here's some rough budget annual expenses

sails  50K

bottom 5-10k

rigging and electronics  5-10K

dockage and storage 20K

insurance 5K  ??

crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees   $$$$ you name it

depreciation 25-50K

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by yikes

[Mid 1,891]

theres only one way costs are gunna go , initial purchase is the least of em ..............

[Parma 178]

30 minutes ago, yikes said:

to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in.  Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game.

 

here's some rough budget annual expenses

sails  50K

bottom 5-10k

rigging and electronics  5-10K

dockage and storage 20K

insurance 5K  ??

crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees   $$$$ you name it

depreciation 25-50K

 

Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer.

Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer.

[Windward 181]

WWRD 

 

What would Rimas do?

[wingssail 39]

"to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in.  Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game.

here's some rough budget annual expenses

sails  50K

bottom 5-10k

rigging and electronics  5-10K

dockage and storage 20K

insurance 5K  ??

crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees   $$$$ you name it

depreciation 25-50K

Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series  so Yikes cost figures don't make sense.

There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above.

I'd budget, for my area:

sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix

bottom 3-5k

rigging and electronics, general maintenance  12k

dockage and storage 15K

insurance 2K  Buy liability only

crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees   3k

depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K

This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive.

 

[Left Shift 1,623]

17 minutes ago, Parma said:

Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer.

For you and 10 of your best sailing friends.  

[1sailor 35]

32 minutes ago, yikes said:

to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in.  Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game.

 

here's some rough budget annual expenses

sails  50K

bottom 5-10k

rigging and electronics  5-10K

dockage and storage 20K

insurance 5K  ??

crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees   $$$$ you name it

depreciation 25-50K

 

As these 52's get older and cheaper, they find their way into local YC sailors' hands and that's all good.    Budget can be whatever you need it to be for your purposes.   Top 52's in the great lakes will spend over 100k / year but that doesn't mean you'd HAVE TO in your local fleet to have fun.   Arguably the winningest 52 around these parts in recent years is the Natalie J program--- they dont even pay pros to sail.   Seems to be the epitome of cool 'friends and family' type of project, on a gen. 1 boat, that frequently kicks the newer pro teams to the curb.    Suppose it helps that son-in-law of owner is a multi world champ and olympic sailor (and he has friends) but it's pretty cool to see success at the lower end of the spending realm considering the bad-asses they are sailing against (and often beating).

 

[Left Shift 1,623]

3 minutes ago, wingssail said:

"to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in.  Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game.

here's some rough budget annual expenses

sails  50K

bottom 5-10k

rigging and electronics  5-10K

dockage and storage 20K

insurance 5K  ??

crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees   $$$$ you name it

depreciation 25-50K

Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series  so Yikes cost figures don't make sense.

There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above.

I'd budget, for my area:

sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix

bottom 3-5k

rigging and electronics, general maintenance  12k

dockage and storage 15K

insurance 2K  Buy liability only

crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees   3k

depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K

This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive.

 

For a Super Series annual program, you just pick what digit you want in front of $__, 000,000 and it had better not be a 1 or you might as well just stay home.  

[Parma 178]

8 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

For you and 10 of your best sailing friends.  

Only if they helped with the waxing.

[VWAP 474]

32 minutes ago, Parma said:

Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer.

Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer.

Ohhhh, and $ome of the$e

FIFY

[Norcal 7]

The cheap part is buying it.

[Hugh Janus 26]

31 minutes ago, wingssail said:

"to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in.  Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game.

here's some rough budget annual expenses

sails  50K

bottom 5-10k

rigging and electronics  5-10K

dockage and storage 20K

insurance 5K  ??

crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees   $$$$ you name it

depreciation 25-50K

Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series  so Yikes cost figures don't make sense.

There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above.

I'd budget, for my area:

sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix

bottom 3-5k

rigging and electronics, general maintenance  12k

dockage and storage 15K

insurance 2K  Buy liability only

crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees   3k

depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K

This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive.

 

yup, can be done for this....or even less...

 

but with that budget, and wanting to race, this isn't what i would pick to buy..

 

[toad 358]

There is only one word for the broken arsed keyboard warriors on SA no matter what you are thinking........

 

Dont!

[mad 2,925]

If you can’t afford to set fire to a pile of cash that’s the asking price without wincing??? 

You cant afford it!  Simple as that. 

[Swimsailor 650]

1 hour ago, Parma said:

nope

C'mon guys, interwebbing isn't that hard...

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/king-marine-built-j-v-designed-tp-52-3568273/?refSource=same seller listing

 

[Greyhound37 49]

Here is a whole platoon of TP 52's starting at $155K

TP 52 for sale

[SloopJonB 5,514]

52 minutes ago, Norcal said:

The cheap part is buying it.

Well duh - It's a boat isn't it?

[Matagi 208]

Wow. Given that this is the range in which some First 40 would like to be*, that really is low. 

But I'd hate to always be put in the highest class with probably a pretty bad rating and than see all others disappear. In front of me. 

You need to be very masochistic to like that. While getting wet.

 

 

*First 40 (not 40.7) range is completely out of control, between 60,000 USD and 160,000 USD, anything seems possible.

[Cape_taco12 7]

I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake.

[kent_island_sailor 2,264]

1 hour ago, wingssail said:

"

insurance 2K  Buy liability only

 

This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive.

 

That only works if you can pay cash for the boat and don't have a wife that will kill you when that much money sinks.

[shanghaisailor 973]

Many costs depend on the level of racing you do and how much of that racing. Insurance is largely a factor of boat value, sailing area and racing risks.

Some are fixed - obviously slip fees dependant on size to age and type no influence.

Difficult to know how much is near usable life  any of the systems and more importantly the sails are and their costs depends on whether you for 3DiRAW or something less exotic.

Difficult to tell from the photo but she seems to have a North 3Di main and perhaps a Quantum Aso which would suggest the current owner not afraid to spend money on her.

Then of course how much of the winter work you could do or get friends/crew to do against a boatyard.

I have been running a Cookson 50 for the past 2-3 years and work on a boat that size is not cheap but overall her rice seems to be on the right band for her age depending on condition but it was interesting to see the Yachtworld advert doesn't mention the sail wardrobe. I tried to click on details but the tab didn't seem to operate.

In my experience is that, bottom line is all boats are roughly the same cost, cheap to buy but lots needing done/spent or a more expensive turnkey opportunity unless there are other reasons behind the sale like daughter going to college or wife putting her foot down having discovered how much is being spent each year :-)

Just musing

SS

[~HHN92~ 123]

I was talking to someone after Transpac and it sounded like the Super Series boats shedded a lot of 1-2 regatta sails onto the market, so maybe something there for the 2nd tier owner to look at.

[shanghaisailor 973]

6 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I was talking to someone after Transpac and it sounded like the Super Series boats shedded a lot of 1-2 regatta sails onto the market, so maybe something there for the 2nd tier owner to look at.

That would help keep costs down - one man's rubbish is another man's treasure

[SloopJonB 5,514]

That was part of the logic that Kim used when choosing to use a Farr 40 rig on Frankie.

Makes a lot of sense. Probably only works well when the "donor" boat is a high end race boat where sails are replaced on a schedule rather than when they are worn out. I'd imagine the TP52 fleet qualifies.

[Tom O'Keefe 62]

A buddy picked up Destroyer two years ago to do Transpac cycle. He was able to pickup a 2nd hand MHG for a good price. But, basically he told me any effort to stay on his initial budget went out the window quickly. We've been pretty competitive when we weren't going through teething pains. But, it looks like we'll continue playing with this new toy at least through PV.

[spectator 4]

3 hours ago, Parma said:

Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer.

Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer.

2 hours ago, VWAP said:

 

2 hours ago, VWAP said:

FIFY

You need a boat power for that.

[SloopJonB 5,514]

24 minutes ago, spectator said:

You need a boat power for that.

Those are electric wenches aren't they?

[Swimsailor 650]

2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Well duh - It's a boat isn't it?

I picked up my Capri 25 for a song.  I've put 3 times that into it since.  That's just the way it goes!

[Parma 178]

1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

work on a boat that size is not cheap but overall her rice seems to be on the right band for her age depending on

rice/ is that a chinese colloquialism?

[Dex Sawash 327]

2 hours ago, Cape_taco12 said:

I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake.

Wait until you see the fisting photo

[terrafirma 561]

I think if you wanted a 52 footer for sailing non professional etc you could access 2nd hand sails via the multitude of racing 52's then why not. The $$$ question with a lot of the TP52's is is it suitable for Ocean Racing? And then is that part of the owners plan? Obviously these are fast boats and plenty of fun if that's what you are wanting to graduate to. 

[Alcatraz5768 409]

So rather than thinking about this from our point of reference (generally poor) look at it through the eyes of someone with some money. Wants a race boat, wants quite a big one, wants one people recognise, can get some good used bits, wants a boat with heaps of knowledge about the class, then this is a fucking bargain, only choice is which one to get. 

[LionessRacing 440]

Unless you are going to be content beating up local/regional PHRF fleets your expenses on that to keep it competitive in IRC/ORR are going to be significant much less what you would need for one design competitiveness, (which it's probably never going to be again,) unless there's a "spirit of tradition" class much as the meter boats have. 

We had a guy out of Portsmouth, NH YC who bought a 50' French boat with some deep bulb keel that rated somewhere like -30 PHRF, he raced it against the local fleet and got killed as he could never get it up to its rating. In the 2005 NE championships he and "Numbers" were a two boat fleet and the results were equally spectacular, losing by >30 min in a  3hr race on corrected time...

 

Just having the hull and rig without the crew may not be a good investment. 

  

[VWAP 474]

6 hours ago, Cape_taco12 said:

I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake.

That is definitely not the tactician. Us tacticians would have our forearm extended stabilizing the task at hand.

[terrafirma 561]

8 hours ago, Greyhound37 said:

Here is a whole platoon of TP 52's starting at $155K

TP 52 for sale

Custom TP52's no thanks.! Denali is the better buy JV design and  2007 with many upgrades already. Make an offer at $170k and it's yours.! 

[SPORTSCAR 523]

10 hours ago, Parma said:

Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer.

Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer.

At least this lot could assist with the waxing...

[Presuming Ed 181]

9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Well duh - It's a boat isn't it?

Buying a boat. Not so much acquiring an asset as giving yourself exposure to a liability.

[Alcatraz5768 409]

6 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

Unless you are going to be content beating up local/regional PHRF fleets your expenses on that to keep it competitive in IRC/ORR are going to be significant much less what you would need for one design competitiveness, (which it's probably never going to be again,) unless there's a "spirit of tradition" class much as the meter boats have. 

We had a guy out of Portsmouth, NH YC who bought a 50' French boat with some deep bulb keel that rated somewhere like -30 PHRF, he raced it against the local fleet and got killed as he could never get it up to its rating. In the 2005 NE championships he and "Numbers" were a two boat fleet and the results were equally spectacular, losing by >30 min in a  3hr race on corrected time...

 

Just having the hull and rig without the crew may not be a good investment. 

  

Your assumption is there's no other fast 50'ers around to race. There is a pretty good fleet here but slowly diminishing as the 40'er fleet size is increasing. 

[DennisY 0]

14 hours ago, VWAP said:

FIFY

Are those electric wenches by chance?

[terrafirma 561]

Or how about a PAC52 for $1.2 Million USD's thank you very much..! (The class sounds like it's done)  2 x RIO's on the market now...

https://www.raceyachts.com.au/our-yachts/irc-pac-52/?fbclid=IwAR1YZCWaCo70yJkUmbBhdn8G7T7Ermiw1d4r7tcHGbQTnIkHQ1UTd_1LMQE

 

 

[billy backstay 550]

19 hours ago, glexpress said:

It depends, are you racing the 52 circuit or just collecting pickle dishes in local regattas?

 

Nice shot of the boat to use for a sale with a guy pissing off the back.

 

I immediately thought the same thing!  And as someone just above you said, it may be a cheap buy-in, but the revolving costs going forward in the TP52 circuit are mind boggling!  Just travel and lodging will be staggering.   But, if you just want to have the biggest dick in your local PHRF fleet then go for it!  What's it rate?

[glexpress 59]

40 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

I immediately thought the same thing!  And as someone just above you said, it may be a cheap buy-in, but the revolving costs going forward in the TP52 circuit are mind boggling!  Just travel and lodging will be staggering.   But, if you just want to have the biggest dick in your local PHRF fleet then go for it!  What's it rate?

To add to the notion of cheap buy in to destroy local PHRF fleets.  I'm sure if that's the philosophy of use for a used TP52, buying used sails from the boats in the circuit would be another cost savings.

[bridhb 220]

15 hours ago, Cape_taco12 said:

I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake.

With that many swinging dicks on board there is probably always someone pissing off the back!

[LionessRacing 440]

Quote

Your assumption is there's no other fast 50'ers around to race. There is a pretty good fleet here but slowly diminishing as the 40'er fleet size is increasing. 

 

No assumptions at all... If you buy a bargain TP52 and don't put the funds into the sails & maintenance you will have similar results racing somebody who does... 

 

[2Newts 67]

17 hours ago, wingssail said:

"to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in.  Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game.

here's some rough budget annual expenses

sails  50K

bottom 5-10k

rigging and electronics  5-10K

dockage and storage 20K

insurance 5K  ??

crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees   $$$$ you name it

depreciation 25-50K

Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series  so Yikes cost figures don't make sense.

There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above.

I'd budget, for my area:

sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix

bottom 3-5k

rigging and electronics, general maintenance  12k

dockage and storage 15K

insurance 2K  Buy liability only

crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees   3k

depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K

This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive.

 

There's a way to do it even better, but you gotta have it planned in advance, know the right people, and assume that the next president ain't going to fuck with the regulations around charitable donations. 

Buy for $190,000, or whatever you negotiate. 

Spend whatever your budget allows for the above items, say anywhere in the range of $50k-$100k annually. Let's just say you decide on a budget of $75k. 

After four years, you are out $190,000 purchase plus $300,000 operating equals $490,000.

Now, donate it to a sailing program that has a track record in the charter-to-buy charity operations. But in doing so, claim that a good portion of the annual expense was capital upgrades. You can include any electronics, rigging, and recent year's paint and sails. For arguments sake, lets say you get aggressive and that comes to $160,000. So now you claim a donation of $350,000 in total value. Assuming you are in about a ~50% tax bracket, this should reduce your taxes by about $175,000.

Now, what are you out after four years?

$490,000 cash out the door, less $175,000 tax savings = $315,000, or $79k per year. 

If you think of it as a charter, $79k annually for a boat like that ain't bad. And it's basically the same as the amount you decided to put in to it to operate it annually. You get nearly all of the purchase price back in the tax deduction. 

 

[SCANAS 387]

On 8/20/2019 at 2:14 AM, yikes said:

is that the price of a new carbon stick for this beater?

No

[SCANAS 387]

21 hours ago, 2Newts said:

There's a way to do it even better, but you gotta have it planned in advance, know the right people, and assume that the next president ain't going to fuck with the regulations around charitable donations. 

Buy for $190,000, or whatever you negotiate. 

Spend whatever your budget allows for the above items, say anywhere in the range of $50k-$100k annually. Let's just say you decide on a budget of $75k. 

After four years, you are out $190,000 purchase plus $300,000 operating equals $490,000.

Now, donate it to a sailing program that has a track record in the charter-to-buy charity operations. But in doing so, claim that a good portion of the annual expense was capital upgrades. You can include any electronics, rigging, and recent year's paint and sails. For arguments sake, lets say you get aggressive and that comes to $160,000. So now you claim a donation of $350,000 in total value. Assuming you are in about a ~50% tax bracket, this should reduce your taxes by about $175,000.

Now, what are you out after four years?

$490,000 cash out the door, less $175,000 tax savings = $315,000, or $79k per year. 

If you think of it as a charter, $79k annually for a boat like that ain't bad. And it's basically the same as the amount you decided to put in to it to operate it annually. You get nearly all of the purchase price back in the tax deduction. 

 

Can you defer the loss for a couple of years? 

 

Ie. use that loss to cancel out more than one years tax?

[jackolantern 323]

Honestly all of these numbers are enough to show up on the starting line. You’ll embarrass yourself from shredding and shrimping sails and won’t be able to get the boat to point straight or physically hold together for those kinds of numbers. 

[Parma 178]

2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Honestly all of these numbers are enough to show up on the starting line. You’ll embarrass yourself from shredding and shrimping sails and won’t be able to get the boat to point straight or physically hold together for those kinds of numbers. 

can you explain that? does the boat wind check? are they flimsy?

[2Newts 67]

9 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Can you defer the loss for a couple of years? 

 

Ie. use that loss to cancel out more than one years tax?

The rule of thumb for US taxes is that you have to claim the event (eg, the donation) in the year it happens. But a good accountant can work miracles.

[jackolantern 323]

6 hours ago, Parma said:

can you explain that? does the boat wind check? are they flimsy?

They are designed with zero tolerance. They achieve their results by designing to a point which requires sailing the boat at 100% or its potential 100% of the time. The handicap does not have room for anything less. If your skill level, boat maintenance, or crew abilities are anything but 100% then it's going to be a rough experience. 

[SloopJonB 5,514]

Probably kinda similar to buying an old Formula One car for track days.

[Sail4beer 1,291]

On 8/19/2019 at 3:24 PM, Windward said:

WWRD 

 

What would Rimas do?

As has been answered numerous times since I first posited the same...

 

 

 

Nothing

 

[Alcatraz5768 409]

12 hours ago, jackolantern said:

They are designed with zero tolerance. They achieve their results by designing to a point which requires sailing the boat at 100% or its potential 100% of the time. The handicap does not have room for anything less. If your skill level, boat maintenance, or crew abilities are anything but 100% then it's going to be a rough experience. 

For the tp52 circuit absolutely, for thrashing around the harbour against the other out of date tp52s it will be fine. 

[Parma 178]

Exactly what I was thinking and why Jack's observation did not make sense to me.

The BIG question is it smarter to convert it into a daysailer or pile money into it trying to make a competitive go of it as a TP52.

If converted into a daysailer it would never be able to revert back to a TP52 economically, but what is the market for a TP52DS like? I have a feeling that conversion & optimization would cost about the same but the DS option would be far cheaper to maintain.

Which option loses more $$$$$?

[ease hike trim 19]

Gunkholing in a daysailer with 12' of draft sounds fun.

[SloopJonB 5,514]

Not a problem around here.

[Parma 178]

50 minutes ago, ease hike trim said:

Gunkholing in a daysailer with 12' of draft sounds fun.

Plus a lot of marinas don't have that depth.

OTOH lots of boats with 4.5' draft go up on the mud - i've seen them, i've been them.

[Left Shift 1,623]

4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Not a problem around here.

There are a lot of places where 12' of depth gets sketchy around the PNW.  Particularly marinas.  Port Townsend, LaConner, Ucluelet, Anacortes, Oak Harbor, Telegraph Cove, Prevost Island, Silva Bay and on and on.  All are places you want to go and all would require serious attention.  

But TP52s are really closer to 11', so it's all good.  

But really, the whole point of a TP52 is to be out there at the leading edge of SA/Disp and playing with tweaks.  That's where the rewards are.  Depowering one is just wrong.  

[hoppy 617]

On 8/23/2019 at 2:01 AM, Parma said:

Exactly what I was thinking and why Jack's observation did not make sense to me.

The BIG question is it smarter to convert it into a daysailer or pile money into it trying to make a competitive go of it as a TP52.

If converted into a daysailer it would never be able to revert back to a TP52 economically, but what is the market for a TP52DS like? I have a feeling that conversion & optimization would cost about the same but the DS option would be far cheaper to maintain.

Why convert it into a daysailer? Keep it as a low budget (in TP52 sense) ocean racer. Buy used sails and accept that you are not going to be competitive against more modern TP52's or similar aged TP's with big budgets.

Not all clubs or races have big budget big boats competing. 

It would probably not be unreasonable for a syndicate of 5 put in $40k each to buy a 15yo TP52 and then $5k-$10k each per year to moor, maintain, race and buy used sails. 

 

On 8/23/2019 at 2:01 AM, Parma said:

Which option loses more $$$$$?

If you worry about that, you should NEVER contemplate yacht ownership, ever.

[Parma 178]

43 minutes ago, hoppy said:

If you worry about that, you should NEVER contemplate yacht ownership, ever.

How about a boat? Is a boat okay?

[hoppy 617]

2 hours ago, Parma said:

How about a boat? Is a boat okay?

don't care about stink boat fans... but the same rule applies.

[Monkey 713]

11 hours ago, hoppy said:

don't care about stink boat fans... but the same rule applies.

So you’re one of those people who insists on calling his boat a yacht. That explains a lot. 

[ropetrick 54]

3 hours ago, Monkey said:

So you’re one of those people who insists on calling his boat a yacht. That explains a lot. 

A hangover/hangup of the old British empire.

[Bus Driver 2,408]

On 8/20/2019 at 1:26 AM, SPORTSCAR said:

At least this lot could assist with the waxing...

Pretty sure "waxing" means something different, to them.

Not that it's a bad thing....

[Tropical Madness 32]

On 8/20/2019 at 5:04 AM, Cape_taco12 said:

I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake.

Great specs... amazed theyre not sold already

Dimensions
LOA: 52 ft 0 in
Beam: 14 ft 4 in

Accommodations
Number of heads: 1

 

Aussie boat is better

Accommodations
Number of heads: 1

Electronics
Wind speed and direction
Log-speedometer
VHF
Navigation center
Compass
GPS
Repeater(s)
Depthsounder

Rigging
Steering wheel

[rbridges007 0]

What a great boat. This particular one was run by a fellow who raced it with an aged crew who had many physical handicaps and they still did very well.  Just goes to show how a great design can extend the life of the boat and crew.  

[Windward 181]

Bolt 2 together for a snazzy catamaran.   Hotrod can do it...  if he has time.

Draft problem?   Solved.

Now has 2 heads.   Solved.

 

[Murphness 62]

Sailed on it a bit when it was Indra. Solid boat. I think it's got a few new Q sails. Lots of Gladiator era sails but I think maybe some of them were for an older rig that broke and would need to be modified for the new one? As others have said, good value to the right person/syndicate. 

[Parma 178]

So does a TP52 run a German mainsheet system? I'm trying to figure out how to configure the electric winches for my new daysailer.

[lostmydetailsagain 38]

5 hours ago, Parma said:

So does a TP52 run a German mainsheet system? I'm trying to figure out how to configure the electric winches for my new daysailer.

Used to, but most have been converted to "reverse T". This boat (ex-Matador, ex-Weapon of Choice)  had the german mainsheet system still in place at 2009 & 2010 52-worlds

[Curious 398]

On 8/25/2019 at 2:16 AM, Monkey said:

So you’re one of those people who insists on calling his boat a yacht. That explains a lot. 

That's the best example of the Ugly American I've seen since I heard someone complain that people in Milan spoke Italian.

In much of the world, quite small craft are normally called "yachts".  Folkboats are called "yachts".  Designers like Van de Stadt call 21 footers "yachts". In NZ, even seven foot P Class boats were called "yachts" repeatedly by gold medallists, without a hint of irony. Even in the USA the Star class is called a YACHT Racing Association for a reason. The USA does not determine how people from other countries are allowed to use the English language.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Curious

[SloopJonB 5,514]

11 hours ago, Curious said:

That's the best example of the Ugly American I've seen since I heard someone complain that people in Milan spoke Italian.

"How much is that in real money" is my favourite.

yacht

noun [ C ]

uk /jɒt/ us /jɑːt/

 

a boat with sails and sometimes an engine, used for either racing or travelling on for pleasure:

Americans tend to restrict the term to huge motorboats.

Incorrectly, as are most of their differences in the use of the language.

 

[Mambo Kings 569]

On 8/20/2019 at 9:29 AM, 2Newts said:

There's a way to do it even better, but you gotta have it planned in advance, know the right people, and assume that the next president ain't going to fuck with the regulations around charitable donations. 

Buy for $190,000, or whatever you negotiate. 

Spend whatever your budget allows for the above items, say anywhere in the range of $50k-$100k annually. Let's just say you decide on a budget of $75k. 

After four years, you are out $190,000 purchase plus $300,000 operating equals $490,000.

Now, donate it to a sailing program that has a track record in the charter-to-buy charity operations. But in doing so, claim that a good portion of the annual expense was capital upgrades. You can include any electronics, rigging, and recent year's paint and sails. For arguments sake, lets say you get aggressive and that comes to $160,000. So now you claim a donation of $350,000 in total value. Assuming you are in about a ~50% tax bracket, this should reduce your taxes by about $175,000.

Now, what are you out after four years?

$490,000 cash out the door, less $175,000 tax savings = $315,000, or $79k per year. 

If you think of it as a charter, $79k annually for a boat like that ain't bad. And it's basically the same as the amount you decided to put in to it to operate it annually. You get nearly all of the purchase price back in the tax deduction. 

 

Or..........I could spend $80,000 a year on charter fees and sail some really nice boats in some really nice parts of the world.

[hoppy 617]

8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

"How much is that in real money" is my favourite.

yacht

noun [ C ]

uk /jɒt/ us /jɑːt/

 

a boat with sails and sometimes an engine, used for either racing or travelling on for pleasure:

Americans tend to restrict the term to huge motorboats.

Incorrectly, as are most of their differences in the use of the language.

 

If you google yacht and show pictures, you not surprisingly get a dumbarse yank Monkey view of the world.

Mixed in with the superyacht stink boats, I did manage to find the 2019 European yacht of the year.

 

 

[jackolantern 323]

On 8/22/2019 at 5:57 AM, Alcatraz5768 said:

For the tp52 circuit absolutely, for thrashing around the harbour against the other out of date tp52s it will be fine. 

Yeah? How about the one in Seattle that dropped its rig yesterday while "thrashing around the harbor" 

[SCANAS 387]

3 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Yeah? How about the one in Seattle that dropped its rig yesterday while "thrashing around the harbor" 

Great time for a new rig sponsored by statefarm! 

[onepointfivethumbs 156]

On 8/29/2019 at 1:01 PM, Mambo Kings said:

Or..........I could spend $80,000 a year on charter fees and sail some really nice boats in some really nice parts of the world.

My brain started doing the math when I saw the asking price and some of the upkeep figures. 

“I could buy three new Finns a year, or a Finn and a Star and have Freddy Loof coach me, go to Bacardi, Lake Garda, Melbourne...”

[Floating Duck 57]

18 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Yeah? How about the one in Seattle that dropped its rig yesterday while "thrashing around the harbor" 

Whoa whoa whoa. I live in Seattle. Which one dropped its rig?! Deets.