Editor 585 #1 Posted August 19, 2019 Asking price is $190,000. Is that a deal for this boat? Jump in and discuss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ease hike trim 19 #2 Posted August 19, 2019 Cheap buy-in to a world of mind boggling expense. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glexpress 93 #3 Posted August 19, 2019 It depends, are you racing the 52 circuit or just collecting pickle dishes in local regattas? Nice shot of the boat to use for a sale with a guy pissing off the back. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,243 #4 Posted August 19, 2019 Damn, mid-late 2000's were some ugly years for cabin top designs. But old TP52's seem to have pretty incredible afterlives. I'm not sure there's another big boat class out there with such a deep pool of boats that are still racing. We're close to 20 years on since Yassou/Victoria/Alta Vita/J-Bird, aren't we? It looks like there are only 4 or 5 in S2H so far this year but there were 10 last year. Depending on the size of my lotto winnings, I'd take a look older TP52's for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hugh Janus 27 #5 Posted August 19, 2019 is that the price of a new carbon stick for this beater? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobbieB 1,052 #6 Posted August 19, 2019 During the recession you could buy property, (lots) in exclusive golf communities for $1. However, the annual HOA dues were $25,000+ for the same $1 lot.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EastCoastHustle 25 #7 Posted August 19, 2019 anyone have a link to the listing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Editor 585 #8 Posted August 19, 2019 click on the pic and there it is Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ned 98 #9 Posted August 19, 2019 Getting in is one thing. Staying in is entirely different cash flow physics. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Left Shift 2,651 #10 Posted August 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ned said: Getting in is one thing. Staying in is entirely different cash flow physics. But they are sure fun to sail. Educational too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #11 Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Editor said: click on the pic and there it is nope Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hugh Janus 27 #12 Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in. Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game. here's some rough budget annual expenses sails 50K bottom 5-10k rigging and electronics 5-10K dockage and storage 20K insurance 5K ?? crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees $$$$ you name it depreciation 25-50K Edited August 19, 2019 by yikes 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mid 2,824 #13 Posted August 19, 2019 theres only one way costs are gunna go , initial purchase is the least of em .............. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #14 Posted August 19, 2019 30 minutes ago, yikes said: to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in. Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game. here's some rough budget annual expenses sails 50K bottom 5-10k rigging and electronics 5-10K dockage and storage 20K insurance 5K ?? crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees $$$$ you name it depreciation 25-50K Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer. Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windward 332 #15 Posted August 19, 2019 WWRD What would Rimas do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingssail 39 #16 Posted August 19, 2019 "to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in. Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game. here's some rough budget annual expenses sails 50K bottom 5-10k rigging and electronics 5-10K dockage and storage 20K insurance 5K ?? crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees $$$$ you name it depreciation 25-50K Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series so Yikes cost figures don't make sense. There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above. I'd budget, for my area: sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix bottom 3-5k rigging and electronics, general maintenance 12k dockage and storage 15K insurance 2K Buy liability only crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees 3k depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Left Shift 2,651 #17 Posted August 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, Parma said: Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer. For you and 10 of your best sailing friends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1sailor 43 #18 Posted August 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, yikes said: to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in. Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game. here's some rough budget annual expenses sails 50K bottom 5-10k rigging and electronics 5-10K dockage and storage 20K insurance 5K ?? crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees $$$$ you name it depreciation 25-50K As these 52's get older and cheaper, they find their way into local YC sailors' hands and that's all good. Budget can be whatever you need it to be for your purposes. Top 52's in the great lakes will spend over 100k / year but that doesn't mean you'd HAVE TO in your local fleet to have fun. Arguably the winningest 52 around these parts in recent years is the Natalie J program--- they dont even pay pros to sail. Seems to be the epitome of cool 'friends and family' type of project, on a gen. 1 boat, that frequently kicks the newer pro teams to the curb. Suppose it helps that son-in-law of owner is a multi world champ and olympic sailor (and he has friends) but it's pretty cool to see success at the lower end of the spending realm considering the bad-asses they are sailing against (and often beating). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Left Shift 2,651 #19 Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, wingssail said: "to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in. Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game. here's some rough budget annual expenses sails 50K bottom 5-10k rigging and electronics 5-10K dockage and storage 20K insurance 5K ?? crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees $$$$ you name it depreciation 25-50K Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series so Yikes cost figures don't make sense. There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above. I'd budget, for my area: sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix bottom 3-5k rigging and electronics, general maintenance 12k dockage and storage 15K insurance 2K Buy liability only crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees 3k depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive. For a Super Series annual program, you just pick what digit you want in front of $__, 000,000 and it had better not be a 1 or you might as well just stay home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #20 Posted August 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Left Shift said: For you and 10 of your best sailing friends. Only if they helped with the waxing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VWAP 902 #21 Posted August 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, Parma said: Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer. Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer. Ohhhh, and $ome of the$e FIFY 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norcal 19 #22 Posted August 19, 2019 The cheap part is buying it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hugh Janus 27 #23 Posted August 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, wingssail said: "to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in. Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game. here's some rough budget annual expenses sails 50K bottom 5-10k rigging and electronics 5-10K dockage and storage 20K insurance 5K ?? crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees $$$$ you name it depreciation 25-50K Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series so Yikes cost figures don't make sense. There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above. I'd budget, for my area: sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix bottom 3-5k rigging and electronics, general maintenance 12k dockage and storage 15K insurance 2K Buy liability only crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees 3k depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive. yup, can be done for this....or even less... but with that budget, and wanting to race, this isn't what i would pick to buy.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toad 610 #24 Posted August 19, 2019 There is only one word for the broken arsed keyboard warriors on SA no matter what you are thinking........ Dont! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mad 3,700 #25 Posted August 19, 2019 If you can’t afford to set fire to a pile of cash that’s the asking price without wincing??? You cant afford it! Simple as that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,243 #26 Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Parma said: nope C'mon guys, interwebbing isn't that hard... https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/king-marine-built-j-v-designed-tp-52-3568273/?refSource=same seller listing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greyhound37 72 #27 Posted August 19, 2019 Here is a whole platoon of TP 52's starting at $155K TP 52 for sale Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,937 #28 Posted August 19, 2019 52 minutes ago, Norcal said: The cheap part is buying it. Well duh - It's a boat isn't it? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matagi 718 #29 Posted August 19, 2019 Wow. Given that this is the range in which some First 40 would like to be*, that really is low. But I'd hate to always be put in the highest class with probably a pretty bad rating and than see all others disappear. In front of me. You need to be very masochistic to like that. While getting wet. *First 40 (not 40.7) range is completely out of control, between 60,000 USD and 160,000 USD, anything seems possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cape_taco12 7 #30 Posted August 19, 2019 I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kent_island_sailor 3,395 #31 Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, wingssail said: " insurance 2K Buy liability only This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive. That only works if you can pay cash for the boat and don't have a wife that will kill you when that much money sinks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shanghaisailor 1,156 #32 Posted August 19, 2019 Many costs depend on the level of racing you do and how much of that racing. Insurance is largely a factor of boat value, sailing area and racing risks. Some are fixed - obviously slip fees dependant on size to age and type no influence. Difficult to know how much is near usable life any of the systems and more importantly the sails are and their costs depends on whether you for 3DiRAW or something less exotic. Difficult to tell from the photo but she seems to have a North 3Di main and perhaps a Quantum Aso which would suggest the current owner not afraid to spend money on her. Then of course how much of the winter work you could do or get friends/crew to do against a boatyard. I have been running a Cookson 50 for the past 2-3 years and work on a boat that size is not cheap but overall her rice seems to be on the right band for her age depending on condition but it was interesting to see the Yachtworld advert doesn't mention the sail wardrobe. I tried to click on details but the tab didn't seem to operate. In my experience is that, bottom line is all boats are roughly the same cost, cheap to buy but lots needing done/spent or a more expensive turnkey opportunity unless there are other reasons behind the sale like daughter going to college or wife putting her foot down having discovered how much is being spent each year :-) Just musing SS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~HHN92~ 123 #33 Posted August 19, 2019 I was talking to someone after Transpac and it sounded like the Super Series boats shedded a lot of 1-2 regatta sails onto the market, so maybe something there for the 2nd tier owner to look at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shanghaisailor 1,156 #34 Posted August 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said: I was talking to someone after Transpac and it sounded like the Super Series boats shedded a lot of 1-2 regatta sails onto the market, so maybe something there for the 2nd tier owner to look at. That would help keep costs down - one man's rubbish is another man's treasure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,937 #35 Posted August 19, 2019 That was part of the logic that Kim used when choosing to use a Farr 40 rig on Frankie. Makes a lot of sense. Probably only works well when the "donor" boat is a high end race boat where sails are replaced on a schedule rather than when they are worn out. I'd imagine the TP52 fleet qualifies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom O'Keefe 122 #36 Posted August 19, 2019 A buddy picked up Destroyer two years ago to do Transpac cycle. He was able to pickup a 2nd hand MHG for a good price. But, basically he told me any effort to stay on his initial budget went out the window quickly. We've been pretty competitive when we weren't going through teething pains. But, it looks like we'll continue playing with this new toy at least through PV. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spectator 12 #37 Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Parma said: Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer. Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer. 2 hours ago, VWAP said: 2 hours ago, VWAP said: FIFY You need a boat power for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,937 #38 Posted August 19, 2019 24 minutes ago, spectator said: You need a boat power for that. Those are electric wenches aren't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swimsailor 1,243 #39 Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, SloopJonB said: Well duh - It's a boat isn't it? I picked up my Capri 25 for a song. I've put 3 times that into it since. That's just the way it goes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #40 Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said: work on a boat that size is not cheap but overall her rice seems to be on the right band for her age depending on rice/ is that a chinese colloquialism? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dex Sawash 447 #41 Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Cape_taco12 said: I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake. Wait until you see the fisting photo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma 971 #42 Posted August 20, 2019 I think if you wanted a 52 footer for sailing non professional etc you could access 2nd hand sails via the multitude of racing 52's then why not. The $$$ question with a lot of the TP52's is is it suitable for Ocean Racing? And then is that part of the owners plan? Obviously these are fast boats and plenty of fun if that's what you are wanting to graduate to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alcatraz5768 413 #43 Posted August 20, 2019 So rather than thinking about this from our point of reference (generally poor) look at it through the eyes of someone with some money. Wants a race boat, wants quite a big one, wants one people recognise, can get some good used bits, wants a boat with heaps of knowledge about the class, then this is a fucking bargain, only choice is which one to get. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LionessRacing 535 #44 Posted August 20, 2019 Unless you are going to be content beating up local/regional PHRF fleets your expenses on that to keep it competitive in IRC/ORR are going to be significant much less what you would need for one design competitiveness, (which it's probably never going to be again,) unless there's a "spirit of tradition" class much as the meter boats have. We had a guy out of Portsmouth, NH YC who bought a 50' French boat with some deep bulb keel that rated somewhere like -30 PHRF, he raced it against the local fleet and got killed as he could never get it up to its rating. In the 2005 NE championships he and "Numbers" were a two boat fleet and the results were equally spectacular, losing by >30 min in a 3hr race on corrected time... Just having the hull and rig without the crew may not be a good investment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VWAP 902 #45 Posted August 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Cape_taco12 said: I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake. That is definitely not the tactician. Us tacticians would have our forearm extended stabilizing the task at hand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma 971 #46 Posted August 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Greyhound37 said: Here is a whole platoon of TP 52's starting at $155K TP 52 for sale Custom TP52's no thanks.! Denali is the better buy JV design and 2007 with many upgrades already. Make an offer at $170k and it's yours.! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SPORTSCAR 689 #47 Posted August 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Parma said: Or put on a faux teak deck ($20,000), a self tacking jib ($15,000) give it a nice waxing and a nice mahogany/ash tiller ($???) and voila! Nice daysailer. Edit, forgot to mention a few electric winches and voila! Nice daysailer. At least this lot could assist with the waxing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Presuming Ed 188 #48 Posted August 20, 2019 9 hours ago, SloopJonB said: Well duh - It's a boat isn't it? Buying a boat. Not so much acquiring an asset as giving yourself exposure to a liability. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alcatraz5768 413 #49 Posted August 20, 2019 6 hours ago, LionessRacing said: Unless you are going to be content beating up local/regional PHRF fleets your expenses on that to keep it competitive in IRC/ORR are going to be significant much less what you would need for one design competitiveness, (which it's probably never going to be again,) unless there's a "spirit of tradition" class much as the meter boats have. We had a guy out of Portsmouth, NH YC who bought a 50' French boat with some deep bulb keel that rated somewhere like -30 PHRF, he raced it against the local fleet and got killed as he could never get it up to its rating. In the 2005 NE championships he and "Numbers" were a two boat fleet and the results were equally spectacular, losing by >30 min in a 3hr race on corrected time... Just having the hull and rig without the crew may not be a good investment. Your assumption is there's no other fast 50'ers around to race. There is a pretty good fleet here but slowly diminishing as the 40'er fleet size is increasing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisY 2 #50 Posted August 20, 2019 14 hours ago, VWAP said: FIFY Are those electric wenches by chance? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma 971 #51 Posted August 20, 2019 Or how about a PAC52 for $1.2 Million USD's thank you very much..! (The class sounds like it's done) 2 x RIO's on the market now... https://www.raceyachts.com.au/our-yachts/irc-pac-52/?fbclid=IwAR1YZCWaCo70yJkUmbBhdn8G7T7Ermiw1d4r7tcHGbQTnIkHQ1UTd_1LMQE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billy backstay 943 #52 Posted August 20, 2019 19 hours ago, glexpress said: It depends, are you racing the 52 circuit or just collecting pickle dishes in local regattas? Nice shot of the boat to use for a sale with a guy pissing off the back. I immediately thought the same thing! And as someone just above you said, it may be a cheap buy-in, but the revolving costs going forward in the TP52 circuit are mind boggling! Just travel and lodging will be staggering. But, if you just want to have the biggest dick in your local PHRF fleet then go for it! What's it rate? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glexpress 93 #53 Posted August 20, 2019 40 minutes ago, billy backstay said: I immediately thought the same thing! And as someone just above you said, it may be a cheap buy-in, but the revolving costs going forward in the TP52 circuit are mind boggling! Just travel and lodging will be staggering. But, if you just want to have the biggest dick in your local PHRF fleet then go for it! What's it rate? To add to the notion of cheap buy in to destroy local PHRF fleets. I'm sure if that's the philosophy of use for a used TP52, buying used sails from the boats in the circuit would be another cost savings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bridhb 490 #54 Posted August 20, 2019 15 hours ago, Cape_taco12 said: I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake. With that many swinging dicks on board there is probably always someone pissing off the back! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LionessRacing 535 #55 Posted August 20, 2019 Quote Your assumption is there's no other fast 50'ers around to race. There is a pretty good fleet here but slowly diminishing as the 40'er fleet size is increasing. No assumptions at all... If you buy a bargain TP52 and don't put the funds into the sails & maintenance you will have similar results racing somebody who does... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2Newts 67 #56 Posted August 20, 2019 17 hours ago, wingssail said: "to race that boat competitively will cost more per year than the buy-in. Sail budget is 50-75K to stay in the game. here's some rough budget annual expenses sails 50K bottom 5-10k rigging and electronics 5-10K dockage and storage 20K insurance 5K ?? crew, pro's, regatta transport, fees $$$$ you name it depreciation 25-50K Nobody is going to buy this boat to race in the TP52 Super Series so Yikes cost figures don't make sense. There are 52's racing locally and regionally all over the world. Not Super Series competitive but fun, fast, challenging, and much cheaper that suggested above. I'd budget, for my area: sails 15K, Sails last three years at 25 races per year, buy good sails, not grand prix bottom 3-5k rigging and electronics, general maintenance 12k dockage and storage 15K insurance 2K Buy liability only crew, pro's, shirts, crew dinners, etc, regatta transport, fees 3k depreciation 25-50K- What? in four years it's free? Try 10-20K This would be about typical for many localities for an amateur run club racing program for a 50+ race boat. My costs for a 43' is about 1/3 that, racing does not have to be so expensive. There's a way to do it even better, but you gotta have it planned in advance, know the right people, and assume that the next president ain't going to fuck with the regulations around charitable donations. Buy for $190,000, or whatever you negotiate. Spend whatever your budget allows for the above items, say anywhere in the range of $50k-$100k annually. Let's just say you decide on a budget of $75k. After four years, you are out $190,000 purchase plus $300,000 operating equals $490,000. Now, donate it to a sailing program that has a track record in the charter-to-buy charity operations. But in doing so, claim that a good portion of the annual expense was capital upgrades. You can include any electronics, rigging, and recent year's paint and sails. For arguments sake, lets say you get aggressive and that comes to $160,000. So now you claim a donation of $350,000 in total value. Assuming you are in about a ~50% tax bracket, this should reduce your taxes by about $175,000. Now, what are you out after four years? $490,000 cash out the door, less $175,000 tax savings = $315,000, or $79k per year. If you think of it as a charter, $79k annually for a boat like that ain't bad. And it's basically the same as the amount you decided to put in to it to operate it annually. You get nearly all of the purchase price back in the tax deduction. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCANAS 500 #57 Posted August 21, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 2:14 AM, yikes said: is that the price of a new carbon stick for this beater? No Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCANAS 500 #58 Posted August 21, 2019 21 hours ago, 2Newts said: There's a way to do it even better, but you gotta have it planned in advance, know the right people, and assume that the next president ain't going to fuck with the regulations around charitable donations. Buy for $190,000, or whatever you negotiate. Spend whatever your budget allows for the above items, say anywhere in the range of $50k-$100k annually. Let's just say you decide on a budget of $75k. After four years, you are out $190,000 purchase plus $300,000 operating equals $490,000. Now, donate it to a sailing program that has a track record in the charter-to-buy charity operations. But in doing so, claim that a good portion of the annual expense was capital upgrades. You can include any electronics, rigging, and recent year's paint and sails. For arguments sake, lets say you get aggressive and that comes to $160,000. So now you claim a donation of $350,000 in total value. Assuming you are in about a ~50% tax bracket, this should reduce your taxes by about $175,000. Now, what are you out after four years? $490,000 cash out the door, less $175,000 tax savings = $315,000, or $79k per year. If you think of it as a charter, $79k annually for a boat like that ain't bad. And it's basically the same as the amount you decided to put in to it to operate it annually. You get nearly all of the purchase price back in the tax deduction. Can you defer the loss for a couple of years? Ie. use that loss to cancel out more than one years tax? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackolantern 442 #59 Posted August 21, 2019 Honestly all of these numbers are enough to show up on the starting line. You’ll embarrass yourself from shredding and shrimping sails and won’t be able to get the boat to point straight or physically hold together for those kinds of numbers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #60 Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, jackolantern said: Honestly all of these numbers are enough to show up on the starting line. You’ll embarrass yourself from shredding and shrimping sails and won’t be able to get the boat to point straight or physically hold together for those kinds of numbers. can you explain that? does the boat wind check? are they flimsy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2Newts 67 #61 Posted August 21, 2019 9 hours ago, SCANAS said: Can you defer the loss for a couple of years? Ie. use that loss to cancel out more than one years tax? The rule of thumb for US taxes is that you have to claim the event (eg, the donation) in the year it happens. But a good accountant can work miracles. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackolantern 442 #62 Posted August 21, 2019 6 hours ago, Parma said: can you explain that? does the boat wind check? are they flimsy? They are designed with zero tolerance. They achieve their results by designing to a point which requires sailing the boat at 100% or its potential 100% of the time. The handicap does not have room for anything less. If your skill level, boat maintenance, or crew abilities are anything but 100% then it's going to be a rough experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,937 #63 Posted August 21, 2019 Probably kinda similar to buying an old Formula One car for track days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sail4beer 2,009 #64 Posted August 21, 2019 On 8/19/2019 at 3:24 PM, Windward said: WWRD What would Rimas do? As has been answered numerous times since I first posited the same... Nothing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alcatraz5768 413 #65 Posted August 22, 2019 12 hours ago, jackolantern said: They are designed with zero tolerance. They achieve their results by designing to a point which requires sailing the boat at 100% or its potential 100% of the time. The handicap does not have room for anything less. If your skill level, boat maintenance, or crew abilities are anything but 100% then it's going to be a rough experience. For the tp52 circuit absolutely, for thrashing around the harbour against the other out of date tp52s it will be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #66 Posted August 22, 2019 Exactly what I was thinking and why Jack's observation did not make sense to me. The BIG question is it smarter to convert it into a daysailer or pile money into it trying to make a competitive go of it as a TP52. If converted into a daysailer it would never be able to revert back to a TP52 economically, but what is the market for a TP52DS like? I have a feeling that conversion & optimization would cost about the same but the DS option would be far cheaper to maintain. Which option loses more $$$$$? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ease hike trim 19 #67 Posted August 22, 2019 Gunkholing in a daysailer with 12' of draft sounds fun. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,937 #68 Posted August 22, 2019 Not a problem around here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #69 Posted August 22, 2019 50 minutes ago, ease hike trim said: Gunkholing in a daysailer with 12' of draft sounds fun. Plus a lot of marinas don't have that depth. OTOH lots of boats with 4.5' draft go up on the mud - i've seen them, i've been them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Left Shift 2,651 #70 Posted August 22, 2019 4 hours ago, SloopJonB said: Not a problem around here. There are a lot of places where 12' of depth gets sketchy around the PNW. Particularly marinas. Port Townsend, LaConner, Ucluelet, Anacortes, Oak Harbor, Telegraph Cove, Prevost Island, Silva Bay and on and on. All are places you want to go and all would require serious attention. But TP52s are really closer to 11', so it's all good. But really, the whole point of a TP52 is to be out there at the leading edge of SA/Disp and playing with tweaks. That's where the rewards are. Depowering one is just wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoppy 618 #71 Posted August 24, 2019 On 8/23/2019 at 2:01 AM, Parma said: Exactly what I was thinking and why Jack's observation did not make sense to me. The BIG question is it smarter to convert it into a daysailer or pile money into it trying to make a competitive go of it as a TP52. If converted into a daysailer it would never be able to revert back to a TP52 economically, but what is the market for a TP52DS like? I have a feeling that conversion & optimization would cost about the same but the DS option would be far cheaper to maintain. Why convert it into a daysailer? Keep it as a low budget (in TP52 sense) ocean racer. Buy used sails and accept that you are not going to be competitive against more modern TP52's or similar aged TP's with big budgets. Not all clubs or races have big budget big boats competing. It would probably not be unreasonable for a syndicate of 5 put in $40k each to buy a 15yo TP52 and then $5k-$10k each per year to moor, maintain, race and buy used sails. On 8/23/2019 at 2:01 AM, Parma said: Which option loses more $$$$$? If you worry about that, you should NEVER contemplate yacht ownership, ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #72 Posted August 24, 2019 43 minutes ago, hoppy said: If you worry about that, you should NEVER contemplate yacht ownership, ever. How about a boat? Is a boat okay? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoppy 618 #73 Posted August 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Parma said: How about a boat? Is a boat okay? don't care about stink boat fans... but the same rule applies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 1,206 #74 Posted August 24, 2019 11 hours ago, hoppy said: don't care about stink boat fans... but the same rule applies. So you’re one of those people who insists on calling his boat a yacht. That explains a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ropetrick 74 #75 Posted August 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Monkey said: So you’re one of those people who insists on calling his boat a yacht. That explains a lot. A hangover/hangup of the old British empire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bus Driver 3,891 #76 Posted August 24, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 1:26 AM, SPORTSCAR said: At least this lot could assist with the waxing... Pretty sure "waxing" means something different, to them. Not that it's a bad thing.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tropical Madness 70 #77 Posted August 25, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 5:04 AM, Cape_taco12 said: I like how the listing photo has someone with their dick out pissing into the wake. Great specs... amazed theyre not sold already Dimensions LOA: 52 ft 0 in Beam: 14 ft 4 in Accommodations Number of heads: 1 Aussie boat is better Accommodations Number of heads: 1 Electronics Wind speed and direction Log-speedometer VHF Navigation center Compass GPS Repeater(s) Depthsounder Rigging Steering wheel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rbridges007 3 #78 Posted August 25, 2019 What a great boat. This particular one was run by a fellow who raced it with an aged crew who had many physical handicaps and they still did very well. Just goes to show how a great design can extend the life of the boat and crew. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Windward 332 #79 Posted August 25, 2019 Bolt 2 together for a snazzy catamaran. Hotrod can do it... if he has time. Draft problem? Solved. Now has 2 heads. Solved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphness 68 #80 Posted August 26, 2019 Sailed on it a bit when it was Indra. Solid boat. I think it's got a few new Q sails. Lots of Gladiator era sails but I think maybe some of them were for an older rig that broke and would need to be modified for the new one? As others have said, good value to the right person/syndicate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma 185 #81 Posted August 28, 2019 So does a TP52 run a German mainsheet system? I'm trying to figure out how to configure the electric winches for my new daysailer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lostmydetailsagain 39 #82 Posted August 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Parma said: So does a TP52 run a German mainsheet system? I'm trying to figure out how to configure the electric winches for my new daysailer. Used to, but most have been converted to "reverse T". This boat (ex-Matador, ex-Weapon of Choice) had the german mainsheet system still in place at 2009 & 2010 52-worlds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curious 399 #83 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) On 8/25/2019 at 2:16 AM, Monkey said: So you’re one of those people who insists on calling his boat a yacht. That explains a lot. That's the best example of the Ugly American I've seen since I heard someone complain that people in Milan spoke Italian. In much of the world, quite small craft are normally called "yachts". Folkboats are called "yachts". Designers like Van de Stadt call 21 footers "yachts". In NZ, even seven foot P Class boats were called "yachts" repeatedly by gold medallists, without a hint of irony. Even in the USA the Star class is called a YACHT Racing Association for a reason. The USA does not determine how people from other countries are allowed to use the English language. Edited August 29, 2019 by Curious 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 7,937 #84 Posted August 29, 2019 11 hours ago, Curious said: That's the best example of the Ugly American I've seen since I heard someone complain that people in Milan spoke Italian. "How much is that in real money" is my favourite. yacht noun [ C ] uk /jɒt/ us /jɑːt/ a boat with sails and sometimes an engine, used for either racing or travelling on for pleasure: Americans tend to restrict the term to huge motorboats. Incorrectly, as are most of their differences in the use of the language. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mambo Kings 588 #85 Posted August 29, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 9:29 AM, 2Newts said: There's a way to do it even better, but you gotta have it planned in advance, know the right people, and assume that the next president ain't going to fuck with the regulations around charitable donations. Buy for $190,000, or whatever you negotiate. Spend whatever your budget allows for the above items, say anywhere in the range of $50k-$100k annually. Let's just say you decide on a budget of $75k. After four years, you are out $190,000 purchase plus $300,000 operating equals $490,000. Now, donate it to a sailing program that has a track record in the charter-to-buy charity operations. But in doing so, claim that a good portion of the annual expense was capital upgrades. You can include any electronics, rigging, and recent year's paint and sails. For arguments sake, lets say you get aggressive and that comes to $160,000. So now you claim a donation of $350,000 in total value. Assuming you are in about a ~50% tax bracket, this should reduce your taxes by about $175,000. Now, what are you out after four years? $490,000 cash out the door, less $175,000 tax savings = $315,000, or $79k per year. If you think of it as a charter, $79k annually for a boat like that ain't bad. And it's basically the same as the amount you decided to put in to it to operate it annually. You get nearly all of the purchase price back in the tax deduction. Or..........I could spend $80,000 a year on charter fees and sail some really nice boats in some really nice parts of the world. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoppy 618 #86 Posted August 30, 2019 8 hours ago, SloopJonB said: "How much is that in real money" is my favourite. yacht noun [ C ] uk /jɒt/ us /jɑːt/ a boat with sails and sometimes an engine, used for either racing or travelling on for pleasure: Americans tend to restrict the term to huge motorboats. Incorrectly, as are most of their differences in the use of the language. If you google yacht and show pictures, you not surprisingly get a dumbarse yank Monkey view of the world. Mixed in with the superyacht stink boats, I did manage to find the 2019 European yacht of the year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackolantern 442 #87 Posted October 29, 2019 On 8/22/2019 at 5:57 AM, Alcatraz5768 said: For the tp52 circuit absolutely, for thrashing around the harbour against the other out of date tp52s it will be fine. Yeah? How about the one in Seattle that dropped its rig yesterday while "thrashing around the harbor" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCANAS 500 #88 Posted October 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, jackolantern said: Yeah? How about the one in Seattle that dropped its rig yesterday while "thrashing around the harbor" Great time for a new rig sponsored by statefarm! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
onepointfivethumbs 217 #89 Posted October 29, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 1:01 PM, Mambo Kings said: Or..........I could spend $80,000 a year on charter fees and sail some really nice boats in some really nice parts of the world. My brain started doing the math when I saw the asking price and some of the upkeep figures. “I could buy three new Finns a year, or a Finn and a Star and have Freddy Loof coach me, go to Bacardi, Lake Garda, Melbourne...” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floating Duck 109 #90 Posted October 29, 2019 18 hours ago, jackolantern said: Yeah? How about the one in Seattle that dropped its rig yesterday while "thrashing around the harbor" Whoa whoa whoa. I live in Seattle. Which one dropped its rig?! Deets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites