Greyhound37

PHRF rating class range. who decides

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Just curious

Who determines the rating ranges between A-0, A-1 and A-2? The club, the region, god?  

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Just now, Greyhound37 said:

Just curious

Who determines the rating ranges between A-0, A-1 and A-2? The club, the region, god?  

It seems to be more on the Club these days with them trying to create racing classes which are even numbers, rather than following a rating rule precisely.

You can see races where one boat which normally fell into A1 residing in A2. For instance, the Columbia 32 rates 66 which A1 was always up to 69, for the EYC Boomerang, it was the scratch boat in A2. Although, there is also another anomaly in the Boomerang Race. The Seascape 27 which rated 90 wound up in A1. Not sure how that happened, but nonetheless, still holds water as an example. 

Another example, AYC WNR, has a boat which rates 108 in phrf 2 (although not normal A0-A2 nomenclature). In accordance with PHRF Ches Bay, http://www.phrfchesbay.org/page/rules/class_splits A2 should be 72-108. If AYC was following the PHRF guidelines, then the 108 would be in PHRF 1 with the boats that rate 72. 

For Screwpile A1 was -33 - 39, A2 45-69, A3 75-90. 

Then, there is the silly decision of classes like the 105 which rates 87, always winding up doing the short courses of the event such as EYC Boomerang, when there are slower boats doing the long course. 

So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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39 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

Just curious

Who determines the rating ranges between A-0, A-1 and A-2? The club, the region, god?  

Little Timmy

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23 minutes ago, trimfast said:

You can see races where one boat which normally fell into A1 residing in A2. For instance, the Columbia 32 rates 66 which A1 was always up to 69, for the EYC Boomerang, it was the scratch boat in A2. Although, there is also another anomaly in the Boomerang Race. The Seascape 27 which rated 90 wound up in A1. Not sure how that happened, but nonetheless, still holds water as an example. 

So if you own a boat that rates 66 why would you register A-2 with 71-109 boats? I would think the 66 boat would want to race against boats that rate closer to their own.

Last year the Columbia 32 was in A-1 then switched to A-2 somehow. They finished the AYC race to Solomons 17 minutes ahead of the second place boat and corrected to 2nd. If it were me it would have been more exciting to finish in the top 3 of A-1. 

In the big picture I just find it puzzling to want to register in a slower group.  

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I just looked up last years NASS Oxford race results. A-1 had the Columbia rating 69 and we had a 66 boat in A-2. 

:-\

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22 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

So if you own a boat that rates 66 why would you register A-2 with 71-109 boats? I would think the 66 boat would want to race against boats that rate closer to their own.

Last year the Columbia 32 was in A-1 then switched to A-2 somehow. They finished the AYC race to Solomons 17 minutes ahead of the second place boat and corrected to 2nd. If it were me it would have been more exciting to finish in the top 3 of A-1. 

In the big picture I just find it puzzling to want to register in a slower group.  

One would think, those in charge of the race would notice these things.

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In the SFBay it's generally attempted to make class breaks that give "balanced" fleets. Here's what my club has done

  • One design fleet where sufficient
  • group like ratings/boats together, cluster of ~30' Racer/Cruisers at ~PHRF 130- 180 that race as "fat 30's", J24 & Merit 25 at PHRF ~168) 
  • separate dissimilar boats/ratings as possible (arbitrary break at 200 to separate non spinnaker little from larger) 
  • keep fleet sizes reasonable where practical 
    • > 4 (> 8% of current series of 48 boats) 
    • < 10 (< 20% of current series) 
  • Where truly unique boats are entered, give them their own class (single trimaran entered in a series) 

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1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

In the SFBay it's generally attempted to make class breaks that give "balanced" fleets. Here's what my club has done

  • One design fleet where sufficient
  • group like ratings/boats together, cluster of ~30' Racer/Cruisers at ~PHRF 130- 180 that race as "fat 30's", J24 & Merit 25 at PHRF ~168) 
  • separate dissimilar boats/ratings as possible (arbitrary break at 200 to separate non spinnaker little from larger) 
  • keep fleet sizes reasonable where practical 
    • > 4 (> 8% of current series of 48 boats) 
    • < 10 (< 20% of current series) 
  • Where truly unique boats are entered, give them their own class (single trimaran entered in a series) 

That seems practical. 

When I was racing sport cars the last day of a 3 day race weekend they combined GT-1 and LMP. I was driving a GT-1 car. To line up on the grid and race 40 minutes with LMP cars was an orgasmic experience. However if I was racing a LMP1 car I would have been concerned about safely lapping (clubbing) with a baby seal on the track,

Hope you see the comparison.  

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Perhaps if you had a rule 18 it would have been less anxiety/rage provoking for the LMP ? something on the order of 15% faster top straight speed, and probably a lot faster cornering capability, even before the KRS. 

We have the joy of different maneuverability and sailing angles, all running in a narrow estuary with occasional commercial traffic.

Several of our marks are used in different courses, so some fleets are approaching same mark from different angles, and "crossing the streams" as well.

image.thumb.png.09ab256f88d0487875ae8694d7c6179e.png

Which allows for starting the slower boats first, on usually shorter courses, all of which go through Start/Finish midway to allow shortening, so that every body has a chance to finish before dark. 

Makes for some interesting tactics trying to figure out where they will be on future starboard tack while you are running on deep Starboard reach.. 

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I think at the SD Yachting Cup the not only use ratings but they look at the performance factor and the boat size too.
Grouping boats based on their potential is more than looking at just the rating.

I've seen some boats there were ULDB in the 80s & 90's are no longer considered ULDB.

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On 8/19/2019 at 1:09 PM, Greyhound37 said:

Just curious

Who determines the rating ranges between A-0, A-1 and A-2? The club, the region, god?  

PHRF of the Chesapeake determines them for the purposes of High Point.  So races/regattas that count towards High Point are supposed to follow that convention.  Individual clubs and organizing authorities (like Screwpile) frequently set fleets based on entrants and their corresponding ratings.  The whole sportboat thing adds an additional complication if your trying to group by type ( sporty vs leadmine).   

 

Does that (not) answer your question?

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We use displacement at part of our splits to separate the furniture boats from the lightweight, higher-accelerating boats. This is good for both.

The following is for our biggest event. For smaller events, Etchells and Sportboat fold neatly into Spinnaker B, and we only run one JaM.

Ladies Cup Classes:
  • Etchells
  • Jib and Main A (PHRF < 159)
  • Jib and Main B (PHRF ≥ 159)
  • Spinnaker A (PHRF < 081)
  • Spinnaker B (PHRF 081 - 126, Displacement < 7500 lbs)
  • Spinnaker C (PHRF 081 - 126, Displacement ≥ 7500 lbs)
  • Spinnaker D (PHRF > 126)
  • Sportboat (J/70, Melges 20, Melges 24, Rocket 22, Seascape 24, Viper 640, VX One)
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