bigorangething

Vineyard Race SI amendment #1

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Just saw this on yachtscoring

***New this year, Aldo’s Bakery of New Shoreham RI is a platinum sponsor for the Vineyard Race. As a part of this sponsorship they will have a boat full of tasty provisions - water, coffee & sandwiches available for purchase on Saturday morning.  Aldo’s asks that competitors reduce sail and go head to wind for deliveries in the area of 0.5NM South of the South East Light between 0600 and 1200.
 
To accommodate this great sponsor, and to avoid penalizing competitors taking advantage of the support, we are adding the following rule:
 
15.7 Any boat receiving outside assistance from Aldo’s shall have 5 minutes subtracted from their corrected time. Please announce your intention to claim this credit when you radio in from the Cows.
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So if you put in ten different orders, you get 50 minute bonus?

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56 minutes ago, PaulK said:

So if you put in ten different orders, you get 50 minute bonus?

Correct

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3 hours ago, bigorangething said:

Just saw this on yachtscoring

***New this year, Aldo’s Bakery of New Shoreham RI is a platinum sponsor for the Vineyard Race. As a part of this sponsorship they will have a boat full of tasty provisions - water, coffee & sandwiches available for purchase on Saturday morning.  Aldo’s asks that competitors reduce sail and go head to wind for deliveries in the area of 0.5NM South of the South East Light between 0600 and 1200.
 
To accommodate this great sponsor, and to avoid penalizing competitors taking advantage of the support, we are adding the following rule:
 
15.7 Any boat receiving outside assistance from Aldo’s shall have 5 minutes subtracted from their corrected time. Please announce your intention to claim this credit when you radio in from the Cows.

Can we get the Dunkin Donuts between Norwalk and Branford to sponsor, in the event it's really light like last year?    

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Always fun to play the predict the winners game:

Cornfield:

PHRF1NS: Kekoa

PHRFDH: Trouble

PHRFSpin: Pegasus

Seaflower:

DH: Joyride

PHRF: Albondigas

Vineyard:

DH: Alibi

PHRF8: Towhee

PHRF9: Growth Spurt

PHRF10: Rocket Science

IRC11: Vamp

PHRF12: Fireball

IRC13: N/A

IRC14: Summer Storm

Multi: Nala

IRC16: Warrior

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Always fun to play the predict the winners game:

Cornfield:

PHRF1NS: Kekoa

PHRFDH: Trouble

PHRFSpin: Pegasus

Seaflower:

DH: Joyride

PHRF: Albondigas

Vineyard:

DH: Alibi

PHRF8: Towhee

PHRF9: Growth Spurt

PHRF10: Rocket Science

IRC11: Vamp

PHRF12: Fireball

IRC13: N/A

IRC14: Summer Storm

Multi: Nala

IRC16: Warrior

 

 

 

 

NALA is really going out on a limb! 

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1 hour ago, jesposito said:

Can we get the Dunkin Donuts between Norwalk and Branford to sponsor, in the event it's really light like last year?    

They don’t have a whaler, so you’d have to send in your own dinghy to them. Since this would take longer the time adjustment would be 14  minutes.  The minimum bill per boat would have to be $283 in order to cover Dunkin Donut’s promotional costs, so this might not work out.    

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It's a Le Mans style start. Everyone does a MOB drill at the prep signal and you have to get the MOB back before you can cross the line. 

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

It's a Le Mans style start. Everyone does a MOB drill at the prep signal and you have to get the MOB back before you can cross the line. 

some may even abandon ship mid race ;-)

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1 minute ago, dacapo said:
1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

It's a Le Mans style start. Everyone does a MOB drill at the prep signal and you have to get the MOB back before you can cross the line. 

some may even abandon ship mid race ;-)

Wille the Aldos boate haive capassitey foire extra peopel?                                   :)

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17 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Wille the Aldos boate haive capassitey foire extra peopel?                                   :)

13 ft. whaler barely has enough room for 2 humans and a few croissants 

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51 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Wille the Aldos boate haive capassitey foire extra peopel?                                   :)

Yes once all the stale pastries and rock hard rolls are delivered.

Has anyone ever noticed that Aldo's has a special recipe, the goods come out of the oven stale? 

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2 hours ago, jesposito said:

Yes once all the stale pastries and rock hard rolls are delivered.

Has anyone ever noticed that Aldo's has a special recipe, the goods come out of the oven stale? 

All his employees are from Eastern Europe or Russian reform schools. . That’s the way they like to make it.  Reminds them of home. 

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Most important sail on this race this year might be the light No 1. Danforth. 

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20 hours ago, dacapo said:

13 ft. whaler barely has enough room for 2 humans and a few croissants 

Have you seen the size of Aldo?

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2 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Most important sail on this race this year might be the light No 1. Danforth. 

Could be some coffee and doughnut incidences again this year   

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Boats looking fast out there tonight! Wonder if anyone will stop for a coffee break and risk getting stuck out there tomorrow afternoon.

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On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 11:12 AM, jesposito said:

Could be some coffee and doughnut incidences again this year   

What happened to Libertas?  She had RDG and first place, now RDG has been removed and 2nd place? 

 

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Something about participating in a search and rescue for 8 minutes, but heard reports that their AIS track didn’t deviate. Who knows. 

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9 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

So many questions ! ? 

You our licke the :Shelle Ansere Man", thack you.                                           :)

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10 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Now heard Libertas search was for a couple of kids on a swamped Hobie 16 drifting into The Race.  Were USCG announcements on VHF  16. By the time Libertas got there a powerboat was on scene  so they rejoined the race. 

so what happened with the redress request?

Was redress granted?

yacht scoring still says status: "open"...

 and in the jury decision box it says:

"first notified RC at 17:37 Saturday, shortly after incident. Data properly documented. Track confirms actions."

If they altered course and it took some time.., they pretty much get some amount of time back.., no matter what..

Case 20 doesn't give the jury much latitude to deny redress.

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13 minutes ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

RDG was given, than taken away already.

did you see that in the results?

or, was it in the protest page on YS? 

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1 minute ago, us7070 said:

did you see that in the results?

or, was it in the protest page on YS? 

  originally posted results had Libertas RDG  first place

 

 

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well, that's kind of weird...

they held a hearing.., granted redress, posted the results.., so presumably the hearing was closed at that point.

then they must have reopened the hearing - for some reason - taken away the redress.., and then, presumably, closed the re-opened hearing and posted the amended results.

and now it is open again?

unless maybe YS  has the status wrong.

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the only reason i can think of, to not give redress, given what is posted on the YS website, would be if they found that offering assistance didn't actually cost them any time.

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And what if the weather doesn't cooperate, and you have the kite up and it's blowing 20, what then?

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36 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

And what if the weather doesn't cooperate, and you have the kite up and it's blowing 20, what then?

 

don't really understand your post...

if you think i was arguing against redress.., that is not correct.

i was trying to come up with a reason why the committee might feel they shouldn't award redress, given that they already agreed that the boat did offer assistance.

  in order to get redress, a boat's score has to be made "significantly" worse - losing 1st for 2nd is certainly significant. 

so, the only reason i can think of is that the committee (apparently in a re-opened hearing) decided that giving assistance did not, in fact, affect their position. after all.

someone mentioned that another boat might have actually ended up providing assistance - as i mentioned above, case 20 makes it clear that this is immaterial.

anyway, if they don't agree, they should ask to have the hearing re-opened - unless it really is still open.., and if that doesn't work they should appeal.

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

And what if the weather doesn't cooperate, and you have the kite up and it's blowing 20, what then?

 

US7070, You wrote, "don't really understand your post... if you think i was arguing against redress.., that is not correct.

 

I was not referring to anything you posted, but to the SI specs, on picking your goodies.

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2 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Could this be developing into a moosehead situation?
Geez I hope not!  Would be awful! 

fixte                                     :)

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I think it’s an administrative challenge: to have a valid redress hearing you have to follow the rules on how to conduct it - including giving notice to any impacted party so they can be there.

guessing here: Fireball didn’t get an invite to the initial hearing and asked for that chance.  That’s their right.

i doubt that will change the committee’s decision to award Libertas the time Credit they originally asked for and documented

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My understanding from talking to the Fireball crew was that they were disputing that Libertas actually took the actions they were taking credit for in their redress request. 

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I don’t know the Fireball guys, but that seems like a pretty weak argument to make in the days of Expedition logs and AIS tracks.  Unless maybe those Libertas guys are actually CIA spooks dispatched to protect the secrets of Plum Island and they faked the entire race!

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51 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

My understanding from talking to the Fireball crew was that they were disputing that Libertas actually took the actions they were taking credit for in their redress request. 

well, in any case it appears that the jury found that Libertas _did_ take the actions

as i posted above, this is in the field labeled "Jury Decision" on the yachtscoring page:

"First notified RC at 17:37 Saturday, shortly after incident. Data properly documented. Track confirms actions."

for what it is worth, the standard of proof for a request for redress is not any higher than for most other things that come before a jury - it is "the balance of probabilities".., in other words, is it more likely than not?

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66     REOPENING A HEARING

The  protest  committee  may  reopen  a  hearing  when  it  decides  that  it may have made a significant error...

 

the Stamford YC Protest Committee should reopen the hearing.., again.

We don't have all the facts.., but it seems that there is no dispute that a boat in the race went to the assistance of another boat, and that offering this assistance cost them time, that significantly affected their score.

A procedural error - for example, not properly notifying the affected parties - is not a valid reason to deny (or revoke) redress.., it is only a reason to re-open the hearing with the parties present.

the time limit for either of the parties to ask for the hearing to be reopened has passed.., but there is no limit on the committee itself reopening the hearing.

As far as i can tell, this decision is appealable to US Sailing - they have 15 days from the decision.

 

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1 hour ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Hmm.  Sadly this turn of events does not  seem to provide future incentive to respond to an SOS.  

How much is the difference in prize money between 1st and 2nd again? 

Thast Rediculouse!

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13 minutes ago, us7070 said:

A procedural error - for example, not properly notifying the affected parties - is not a valid reason to deny (or revoke) redress.., it is only a reason to re-open the hearing with the parties present.

 

AIUI, the US Sailing Appeals view is that a procedural error such as failing to make all competitors party to the redress hearing, and give all the necessary notice 'INVALIDATES the hearing.

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but that relates to what has already transpired.

is it necessarily the case that, having once held an invalid hearing, the committee can never again consider the case?

i haven't seen anything that says that

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I had presumed it was just preliminary to a decision from a reopened hearing. 

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On 9/3/2019 at 8:16 PM, Snaggletooth said:

Didde they menchinne what the serche wase foirre?

Maybe they were searching for the Aldo's whaler with the coffee and donuts 

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PYC Falkner Island distance race  tonight canceled tonight  due to forecast 20-25 gusts to 30. 

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On 9/7/2019 at 12:34 PM, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Sailboat race canceled due to breezy conditions. 

Meanwhile,  The redress hearing is now closed  and the decision has been reversed (again)

Libertas is granted redress (again) and is awarded first place (again) 

Did anyone asked Fireball if they conformed to NOR 15.1 

 

If you name your boat fireballs you get to choose which rules you follow

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On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 11:16 AM, jackolantern said:

Always fun to play the predict the winners game.

Anny perdictiones fiorre the Off Soundengs fleette?                              :)

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2 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

Anny perdictiones fiorre the Off Soundengs fleette?                              :)

No more prognostications from me until the spring. Happy winter everyone! 

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Ime am dissapointted, oh welle.  See you Sprin!g                                     :)

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