B.J. Porter

A Solution to Rid Ourselves of Antifa

Recommended Posts

On 9/10/2019 at 11:25 AM, lasal said:

They aren't the ones holding a rally to chant, "Jews will not replace us." They're the ones counter protesting violent fascists who don't do discourse.

 

On 9/10/2019 at 11:32 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

They look to me like they're geared up to start a fight - not protest.  Seems that in every instance that's been reported, that's exactly what they've done.   Can you name me one in which they opposed the White Power jackasses by simply standing their ground, rather than busting heads and breaking stuff?

 

On 9/10/2019 at 11:37 AM, lasal said:

Heather Heyer was standing her ground against hate and got run down.

 

On 9/10/2019 at 11:44 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - her tragedy negates the fact that employing violence to suppress an opinion you oppose is wrong?   

A hateful, wrong thinking jackass creating a tragedy doesn't excuse that jackass's opponents from acting just like the people they profess to oppose, and THAT is the point.   If you think that initiating violence on an individual basis is excused- then you're just as bad as the white-supremacists and the ANTIFA jackasses who are both groups of anti-social cunts with the false bravado of a mob mentality thinking that they're going to be insulated from the ramifications of their behavior. 

Edited to fix formatting and to add:   I rode w/the PGR - I would have personally LOVED a chance to knock the hell outta the WBC Kooks.  They never provided enough provocation to warrant a physical response.  We won - by providing the calm barrier to their attempts to disrupt funerals w/their idiotic message.  If we'd have done what we wanted to and knocked them down and burned their signs?  WE would have been the bad guys, and THEY would have gotten sympathy to their plight.  

 

On 9/10/2019 at 11:47 AM, lasal said:

The point was naming one example. This alt-right fake freakout over antifa is total bullshit.

 

7 hours ago, lasal said:

The fascists get out there in the public eye for three primary reasons. One reason is to test that their members have internalized the hatred, sorta like getting someone to jabber incoherently to prove their faith. It's one thing to prance around in the woods with guns practicing Nazi salutes. It's another to prance in the street with swastikas in a minority community inciting violence. The exercise solidifies leadership structures and scares defenseless people being threatened with genocide.

The other reason is to recruit more disaffected malcontents from online cesspools who live too far away to prance like chubby wood sprites through the back hollows of TN. They set up a rally to prove a negative about free speech and get the gullible to show up. See Shane Kohfield.

Finally, they know they'll find tacit support through the Reich's agitprop. See above. 

 

6 hours ago, lasal said:

Specifically on your personal opinion stated just above. An opinion still primarily concerned with anti fascists taking the authority to defend the community from groups that specifically recruit and groom people such as Dylan Roof to go and kill black parishioners at church. Groups that incite violence during hate rallies partly to create content for right wing agitprop that we see here. You want "constant monitoring." You're not even remotely serious with that crap. You're just working to feed the anti-antifa collective conservative freak out.

Read Ross Douthat if you want to actually help the Right suppress racism instead of pushing this nonsense about antifa.

https://nyti.ms/2Agrev3

 

 

3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I would have ignored them at first, kept walking.   If it continued, I'd've told 'em to fuck off, and kept walking, and the minute one laid a hand on me, knocked him the fuck out.  Unless you are a jewish fag, in which case you should've thanked 'em for noticing, and asked the cutest one for a phone #. 

You're still intentionally missing the point, but, hey, you're not here to understand anything, but, to vilify and argue.  Have at it. 

 

3 hours ago, lasal said:

So you don't actually do the calm reasoned dialogue with Nazi's? Weird, that's what you expect from antifa. I guess since you can take on a group of nazi skinheads by yourself you don't need antifa now do you? What you're pissed about is that I do understand.

 

2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You're still intentionally missing the point.  I'll try with you one last time:  There are no "blanket rules" except that if YOU initiate or cause the escalation, then you're as culpable as the other guy for whatever happens.   The time for calm and reasoned dialogue is before a discussion becomes confrontational.   If/when it does become confrontational, 1st step is to try to avoid escalation.  ( see "blanket rule" above ).   

If the confrontation escalates, you should position yourself to avoid a physical altercation, if that's possible. Leaving is ALWAYS preferable to making the situation worse, and contrary to the movies (probably the only place you've ever experienced a physical altercation) even the guy(s) who win don't come away clean.   

If you can't leave (rarely is this the case)  - you've got 2 choices - stand there calmly and unafraid until they get tired of yelling, or if they swing first, duck and hope you've got enough under your belt to keep them at bay 'til help comes.     No matter what - if YOU swing first, you've lost the upper hand.   Responding in defense of self or someone else isn't swinging first.    

 

I understand exactly. You don't want antifa to stand up to the fascists. You want them to back down, deescalate, and leave the scene. You can't even think of one example where antifa was standing its ground and Nazis attacked. Frankly, you really are a wanker and your tough guy bs directed at me is noted. Should we get some "constant monitoring" up in here?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right wing extremist assholes are killing Americans.

They have overtaken extremist Muslims since 9/11 as the terrorists most likely to kill American civilians.

Whose side are YOU on? How many more killings will it take to make them your enemy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

Right wing extremist assholes are killing Americans.

They have overtaken extremist Muslims since 9/11 as the terrorists most likely to kill American civilians.

Whose side are YOU on? How many more killings will it take to make them your enemy?

I thought it was the guns?  

Why on the anniversary of the greatest loss of American life to Terrorism do you want to start the body count AFTER 911.

 Plenty of Americans are killed each and everyday in the cities of this country.

Those deaths far outnumber those that have died under your definition of rightwing. 

Where is the enough is enough for those deaths?  When do young urban gangbangers become the enemy? 

What will it take? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

No, I am suggesting that letting them spread their vile bullshit without speaking out is appeasement, particularly when they seek to spread it to our youth. 

And I am somewhat subtly poking fun at the folks who used to accuse the Kenyan guy of appeasement, citing Chaimberlain and Hitler, while staying mum about our present day Hitler youth. I find great irony in that. 

I am not aware of anyone on this thread who is advocating against people speaking out against nazis and white supremacists.  

I will reiterate my point again..... if you throw the first punch at a rally because you don't like what is being said, then you are the same as a nazi.  Doing what the Freedom Riders and others do to negate the WBC cunts is appropriate.  Cracking skulls with clubs is not, no matter how vile the words coming out of the skull that gets cracked might be. 

If our democracy and society cannot survive mean, disgusting speech - then we might as well throw in the towel now and get it over with.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

- then we might as well throw in the towel now and get it over with.  

Seems to me Moscow Mitch already has

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

If our democracy and society cannot survive mean, disgusting speech - then we might as well throw in the towel now and get it over with.  

It's the killing of Americans that I don't like. It's targeting Jews and minorities for death that make it especially hateful, and divisive, since some people use that fact to say "meh" and shrug it off more than if it was violence directed at the best Americans. 

These people are far more offended by the 2017 Congressional baseball shooting where only the shooter was killed than by the cold blooded murder of over a hundred Americans in a score of other incidents. They reserve their outrage not for the deaths of Americans, but the deaths of Americans with whom they identify.

And then they call themselves patriots, while supporting a lying, cheating allegedly raping, allegedly tax dodging, draft dodging, racist adulterer with financial ties to an adversarial nation who ignores and hinders our intelligence services while doing his level best to encourage more pollution and creating financial instability in our country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I am not aware of anyone on this thread who is advocating against people speaking out against nazis and white supremacists.  

I will reiterate my point again..... if you throw the first punch at a rally because you don't like what is being said, then you are the same as a nazi.  Doing what the Freedom Riders and others do to negate the WBC cunts is appropriate.  Cracking skulls with clubs is not, no matter how vile the words coming out of the skull that gets cracked might be. 

If our democracy and society cannot survive mean, disgusting speech - then we might as well throw in the towel now and get it over with.  

 

I get this funny feeling you either don't know what a "nazi" is, or you agree with much of Nazi ideology

There is far more than willingness to engage in violence that makes "nazi=true"

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, lasal said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand exactly. You don't want antifa to stand up to the fascists. You want them to back down, deescalate, and leave the scene. You can't even think of one example where antifa was standing its ground and Nazis attacked. Frankly, you really are a wanker and your tough guy bs directed at me is noted. Should we get some "constant monitoring" up in here?

I think you do understand, and are intentionally disregarding what I've consistently said in your desire to frame my position as being wrong.   You have fun with that - I'm right, and am not changing my mind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Steam Flyer said:

 

I get this funny feeling you either don't know what a "nazi" is, or you agree with much of Nazi ideology

There is far more than willingness to engage in violence that makes "nazi=true"

- DSK

Nazis also:

confiscated guns

censored speech

centralized government

redistributed wealth

hated and persecuted people for their percieved privelege

Promtoed Abortion

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, shubrook said:

Nazis also:

confiscated guns

censored speech

centralized government

redistributed wealth

hated and persecuted people for their percieved privelege

Promtoed Abortion

 

I'm not sure what "promtoed" is supposed to mean, it sounds camel-toed only at the prom, maybe?

Anyway the Nazis forced abortion as part of their program of genocide, so there's that.

Thanks for agreeing with me that Nazis are NOT "fine people" and certainly nowhere near an equal moral footing with AntiFa

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I am not aware of anyone on this thread who is advocating against people speaking out against nazis and white supremacists.  

I will reiterate my point again..... if you throw the first punch at a rally because you don't like what is being said, then you are the same as a nazi.  Doing what the Freedom Riders and others do to negate the WBC cunts is appropriate.  Cracking skulls with clubs is not, no matter how vile the words coming out of the skull that gets cracked might be. 

If our democracy and society cannot survive mean, disgusting speech - then we might as well throw in the towel now and get it over with.  

The Proud Boys, Vanguard America, Identity Evropa do not go to college campuses seeking thoughtful intelligent discourse. They go there to start shit. They get people killed. Their violence is no less reprehensible than that by the anti fascists who have been branded “Antifa”  

I take a greater offense to fascists who kill people than anti fascists who throw punches. Neither is acceptable, but I recognize the difference. 

Who on this thread has spoken out against that?  

Flip the script. If Black Lives Matter and the Black Panthers announced that they were going to show up at the Azalea Festival in Palatka Florida, in the heart of Trump country to protest a lack of diversity, there would be twenty groups of counter protesters who would beat the holy hell out of them before they ever spoke a word. You know whose fault it would be?  Black Lives Matter and the Black Panthers, for going someplace to start shit. 

Something tells me that Foxy News wouldn’t have It’s people talking about first amendment rights though...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

It's the killing of Americans that I don't like. It's targeting Jews and minorities for death that make it especially hateful, and divisive, since some people use that fact to say "meh" and shrug it off more than if it was violence directed at the best Americans. 

These people are far more offended by the 2017 Congressional baseball shooting where only the shooter was killed than by the cold blooded murder of over a hundred Americans in a score of other incidents. They reserve their outrage not for the deaths of Americans, but the deaths of Americans with whom they identify.

And then they call themselves patriots, while supporting a lying, cheating allegedly raping, allegedly tax dodging, draft dodging, racist adulterer with financial ties to an adversarial nation who ignores and hinders our intelligence services while doing his level best to encourage more pollution and creating financial instability in our country.

That's where you're wrong Philly - NOBODY is shrugging anything off or saying "Meh".   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

It's the killing of Americans that I don't like. It's targeting Jews and minorities for death that make it especially hateful, and divisive, since some people use that fact to say "meh" and shrug it off more than if it was violence directed at the best Americans. 

These people are far more offended by the 2017 Congressional baseball shooting where only the shooter was killed than by the cold blooded murder of over a hundred Americans in a score of other incidents. They reserve their outrage not for the deaths of Americans, but the deaths of Americans with whom they identify.

And then they call themselves patriots, while supporting a lying, cheating allegedly raping, allegedly tax dodging, draft dodging, racist adulterer with financial ties to an adversarial nation who ignores and hinders our intelligence services while doing his level best to encourage more pollution and creating financial instability in our country.

More mind reading.  

Where has anyone stated that some deaths/ shootings are more offensive than others?   There are over 17,000 murders in the US each year and you are the one claiming that the 50 or so in 2018  “attributed” to far right radicals are more offensive than the other 16950+  

You are the one that is choosing to be offended at certain deaths while giving a pass to those deaths that happen daily under democratic leaders in the cities  

Your last paragraph says it all it’s not about Nazis or fascists it’s about the president  

TDS has no cure  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Thanks for agreeing with me that Nazis are NOT "fine people" and certainly nowhere near an equal moral footing with AntiFa

- DSK

They are exactly the same.

Antifa are communist. They were started in the 1930's by german communists to fight the brown shirts: a giant brawl between national socialists and global socialists.

The national socialists won in Germany. The global socialists won in Russia.

They both killed shitloads of people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That's where you're wrong Philly - NOBODY is shrugging anything off or saying "Meh".   

hahahahaha

you're so funny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, shubrook said:

They are exactly the same.

Antifa are communist. They were started in the 1930's in by german communists to fight the brown shirts: a giant brawl between national socialists and global socialists.

The national socialists won in Germany. The global socialists won in Russia.

They both killed shitloads of people.

AntiFa has killed "shitloads of people"? Do tell.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The Proud Boys, Vanguard America, Identity Evropa do not go to college campuses seeking thoughtful intelligent discourse. They go there to start shit. They get people killed. Their violence is no less reprehensible than that by the anti fascists who have been branded “Antifa”  

I take a greater offense to fascists who kill people than anti fascists who throw punches. Neither is acceptable, but I recognize the difference. 

Who on this thread has spoken out against that?  

Flip the script. If Black Lives Matter and the Black Panthers announced that they were going to show up at the Azalea Festival in Palatka Florida, in the heart of Trump country to protest a lack of diversity, there would be twenty groups of counter protesters who would beat the holy hell out of them before they ever spoke a word. You know whose fault it would be?  Black Lives Matter and the Black Panthers, for going someplace to start shit. 

Something tells me that Foxy News wouldn’t have It’s people talking about first amendment rights though...

If BLM and the Panthers were peacefully expressing their opinions, and they were physically attacked for that?  The attackers would be in the wrong.  Note also that "peaceful != Kumbaya" it means not breaking stuff and busting heads to make their point.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

If BLM and the Panthers were peacefully expressing their opinions, and they were physically attacked for that?  The attackers would be in the wrong.  Note also that "peaceful != Kumbaya" it means not breaking stuff and busting heads to make their point.   

There’s the rub. The white power boys don’t go looking for peaceful thoughtful intelligent discourse. They go places where they know they can start shit, just as the BLM and Panthers would be doing in that scenario. They go there to incite violence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

AntiFa has killed "shitloads of people"? Do tell.

- DSK

Communists have killed shitloads of people.

Ohio shooter this year was a huge fan of antifa. I'm quite sure they have killed people in Europe, too.

Here's an opinion piece from the Amazon Post that lays out the argument.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-antifa-is-the-moral-equivalent-of-neo-nazis/2017/08/30/9a13b2f6-8d00-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

There’s the rub. The white power boys don’t go looking for peaceful thoughtful intelligent discourse. They go places where they know they can start shit, just as the BLM and Panthers would be doing in that scenario. They go there to incite violence. 

No argument at all - but, here's the rub in THAT - if the opponents of the alt-right collective didn't play in to the desire of the white power boys, then the WPB would have to start it if they wanted it.   I honestly think that most of 'em are too cowardly to individually stand toe-to-toe w/someone - and if they DID, then their opponents still hold the higher ground.   Mob mentality is a powerful thing, and its been observed time and again to result in people doing things that are quite beyond the pale. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, shubrook said:

Communists have killed shitloads of people.

Ohio shooter this year was a huge fan of antifa. I'm quite sure they have killed people in Europe, too.

Here's an opinion piece from the Amazon Post that lays out the argument.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/yes-antifa-is-the-moral-equivalent-of-neo-nazis/2017/08/30/9a13b2f6-8d00-11e7-91d5-ab4e4bb76a3a_story.html

In other words, you're just spewing a lot of hateful bullshit from right-wing bullshitters.

As expected.

There are right-wing dictatorships you could move to, and stop trying to fuck up America. You'd be a lot happier.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

In other words, you're just spewing a lot of hateful bullshit from right-wing bullshitters.

As expected.

There are right-wing dictatorships you could move to, and stop trying to fuck up America. You'd be a lot happier.

- DSK

If I don't like it... I should leave?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

In other words, you're just spewing a lot of hateful bullshit from right-wing bullshitters.

As expected.

There are right-wing dictatorships you could move to, and stop trying to fuck up America. You'd be a lot happier.

- DSK

We know you don’t read links but that one was the Washington post:

And let’s be clear: Totalitarian is precisely what they are. Mark Bray, a Dartmouth lecturer who has defended antifa’s violent tactics, recently explained in The Post, “Its adherents are predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists” who believe that physical violence “is both ethically justifiable and strategically effective.” In other words, they are no different from neo-Nazis. Neo-Nazis are the violent advocates of a murderous ideology that killed 25 million people last century. Antifa members are the violent advocates of a murderous ideology that, according to “The Black Book of Communism,” killed between 85 million and 100 million people last century. Both practice violence and preach hate. They are morally indistinguishable. There is no difference between those who beat innocent people in the name of the ideology that gave us Hitler and Himmler and those who beat innocent people in the name of the ideology that gave us Stalin and Dzerzhinsky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, shubrook said:

Communists have killed shitloads of people.

So Antifa are communists, RD? I guess I’ll just have to add that to my ever lengthening list of shit I learned on PA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, shubrook said:

Antifa are communist. They were started in the 1930's by german communists to fight the brown shirts: a giant brawl between national socialists and global socialists.

Da fuck? Where did this info come from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

So Antifa are communists, RD? I guess I’ll just have to add that to my ever lengthening list of shit I learned on PA.

Not just communists but socialists and anarchists too 

1 minute ago, justsomeguy! said:

Da fuck? Where did this info come from, your ass?

History. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

So Antifa are communists, RD? I guess I’ll just have to add that to my ever lengthening list of shit I learned on PA.

 

5 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

Da fuck? Where did this info come from, your ass?

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/antifascist-movements-hitler-nazis-kpd-spd-germany-cold-war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion

Antifa-Conference-1932.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, The Joker said:
15 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

So Antifa are communists, RD? I guess I’ll just have to add that to my ever lengthening list of shit I learned on PA.

Not just communists but socialists and anarchists too 

14 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

Da fuck? Where did this info come from, your ass?

History. 

Right!!

AntiFa are -every- bad person and villian, real or fictional, EVER in ALL HISTORY!!! Hate-HATE-HATE AntiFa!!!!!!

Sad

Bigly

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hemingway is probably the most famous of the Antifa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, phillysailor said:
7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

If our democracy and society cannot survive mean, disgusting speech - then we might as well throw in the towel now and get it over with.  

It's the killing of Americans that I don't like. It's targeting Jews and minorities for death that make it especially hateful, and divisive, since some people use that fact to say "meh" and shrug it off more than if it was violence directed at the best Americans. 

That's utter BS!  If the people doing the killing are not behind bars or dead - then something is terribly wrong.

Or are you saying because a small fraction of the nazis and white supremacists actually kill people - then ALL who subscribe to that ideology needs their heads caved in?  Hey, if that's the case, just let me know.  I'm all in for some good skull bashing.  But why stop with just nazis and white supremacists who just talk the talk but don't walk the walk?  There are a lot of muzzies and jesus freaks I'd like to crack the heads of because of the hateful things they say.  As well as some far left liberals and some trumptards that I just don't like the look of. 

And anyone who defends the rights of inner city black/hispanic or rural white trash drug gangs by default is condoning that violence committed by the gang bangers.  I guess its time to crack some skulls of those that dress up and act like gang bangers.  

They are all fair game right, because they associate with a small inner core group that commits violence?  Right?  Ammiright?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

I get this funny feeling you either don't know what a "nazi" is, or you agree with much of Nazi ideology

There is far more than willingness to engage in violence that makes "nazi=true"

- DSK

Really?  REALLY?  

Let's just stipulate that I don't agree with ANY nazi ideology and therefore must not know what a "nazi" is.  Never mind that my father fought against and was wounded fighting nazis.  But I digress.

So please "mansplain" to me what a nazi is.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

SMH

The broad brush strikes again.

The broad brush has been applied to the right multiple times in this thread alone.

 Ironic that you only see it when applied to Antifa.  

It does raise a point do you identify with communists socialists or anarchists?  

Because those were the groups painted as part of Antifa. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

The broad brush has been applied to the right multiple times in this thread alone.

 Ironic that you only see it when applied to Antifa.  

It does raise a point do you identify with communists socialists or anarchists?  

Because those were the groups FALSELY painted as part of Antifa. 

FIFY

Rightie pantie-pissing hysteria...

As I've explained many (many) times, AntiFa fights Nazis and fascists (white nationalists etc etc). Nazis and fascists (and white nationalists) have long list of groups they consider enemies 'better dead'.  When you complain a lot about one group, or try to paint them as equal, you are expressing a preference. That doesn't make you a member of the group, just a preference. It's obvious, but it's too much for you.

21 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Really?  REALLY?  

Let's just stipulate that I don't agree with ANY nazi ideology and therefore must not know what a "nazi" is.  Never mind that my father fought against and was wounded fighting nazis.  But I digress.

So please "mansplain" to me what a nazi is.  

So perhaps ask your dad what he thinks when he sees Nazis marching in US streets.

I've explained many times already. You haven't listened once yet, why should this time be different?

- DSK

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

FIFY

Rightie pantie-pissing hysteria...

As I've explained many (many) times, AntiFa fights Nazis and fascists (white nationalists etc etc). Nazis and fascists (and white nationalists) have long list of groups they consider enemies 'better dead'.  When you complain a lot about one group, or try to paint them as equal, you are expressing a preference. That doesn't make you a member of the group, just a preference. It's obvious, but it's too much for you.

So perhaps ask your dad what he thinks when he sees Nazis marching in US streets.

I've explained many times already. You haven't listened once yet, why should this time be different?

- DSK

looks like its on all their helmets. Hammer and cicle on the right, flag thingy on the left.

Its easy to say these kids aren't real communists, they are just retards with lousy parents, but most communists have been retards with lousy parents.

image.thumb.png.b067dc185069d7029ce2b83c2860f96f.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:
3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

It's the killing of Americans that I don't like. It's targeting Jews and minorities for death that make it especially hateful, and divisive, since some people use that fact to say "meh" and shrug it off more than if it was violence directed at the best Americans. 

That's utter BS!  If the people doing the killing are not behind bars or dead - then something is terribly wrong.

 Or are you saying because a small fraction of the nazis and white supremacists actually kill people - then ALL who subscribe to that ideology needs their heads caved in?  Hey, if that's the case, just let me know.  I'm all in for some good skull bashing.  But why stop with just nazis and white supremacists who just talk the talk but don't walk the walk?  There are a lot of muzzies and jesus freaks I'd like to crack the heads of because of the hateful things they say.  As well as some far left liberals and some trumptards that I just don't like the look of. 

Interesting. 

I say folks “are more outraged” by the Congressional shooting than by the murder of Jews & minorities, and all of a sudden you are accusing me of supporting “skull bashing” white supremacists and segue into more violent speech.

Nowhere have I supported the violence you are supposing.

Again, right wingers ARE NOT VICTIMS. You are not being persecuted. You are just feeling defensive. 

Man up!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, phillysailor said:

Interesting. 

I say folks “are more outraged” by the Congressional shooting than by the murder of Jews & minorities, and all of a sudden you are accusing me of supporting “skull bashing” white supremacists and segue into more violent speech.

Nowhere have I supported the violence you are supposing.

Again, right wingers ARE NOT VICTIMS. You are not being persecuted. You are just feeling defensive. 

Man up!

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/child-thrown-from-mall-of-america-balcony-showing-real-signs-of-recovery-2019-04-20/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That's where you're wrong Philly - NOBODY is shrugging anything off or saying "Meh".   

Trump said “meh” from the Oval Office as the head of the GOP

Alex Jones denied a mass murder even happened, and it took years for him to be denied a platform for his increasingly popular right wing screed.

White supremacists say “meh” and their free speech is devoutly protected by their allies who with the same breath condemn BLM and those who kneel during the anthem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, phillysailor said:

Trump said “meh” from the Oval Office as the head of the GOP

Alex Jones denied a mass murder even happened, and it took years for him to be denied a platform for his increasingly popular right wing screed.

 White supremacists say “meh” and their free speech is devoutly protected by their allies who with the same breath condemn BLM and those who kneel during the anthem.

Of course. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That's where you're wrong Philly - NOBODY is shrugging anything off or saying "Meh".   

This is Guy not shrugging anything off or saying "Meh":

On 9/10/2019 at 10:44 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - her tragedy negates the fact that employing violence to suppress an opinion you oppose is wrong?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you do understand, and are intentionally disregarding what I've consistently said in your desire to frame my position as being wrong.   You have fun with that - I'm right, and am not changing my mind. 

Antifa is just the right wing's boogeyman. Anybody who cares about political principles would start into this conversation vocally recognizing that. What follows that recognition is a rational discussion about citizenship authority. Like the citizenship you exercised to block the Baptist homophobes from Kansas disrupting funerals. You know that the police are constrained by laws, but those same laws allow citizens to counter protest. See below for the rational analysis.

2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The Proud Boys, Vanguard America, Identity Evropa do not go to college campuses seeking thoughtful intelligent discourse. They go there to start shit. They get people killed. Their violence is no less reprehensible than that by the anti fascists who have been branded “Antifa”  

I take a greater offense to fascists who kill people than anti fascists who throw punches. Neither is acceptable, but I recognize the difference. 

Who on this thread has spoken out against that?  

Flip the script. If Black Lives Matter and the Black Panthers announced that they were going to show up at the Azalea Festival in Palatka Florida, in the heart of Trump country to protest a lack of diversity, there would be twenty groups of counter protesters who would beat the holy hell out of them before they ever spoke a word. You know whose fault it would be?  Black Lives Matter and the Black Panthers, for going someplace to start shit. 

Something tells me that Foxy News wouldn’t have It’s people talking about first amendment rights though...

This quote from Zak Cheney-Rice in the New Yorker, describes pretty succinctly why this anti-antifa freakout has gained so much traction on the right. The Republican coalition's reliance on racism is weakening and starting to gasp for air.

… racism has been fundamental to American conservatism, and the G.O.P. in particular, since the mid-20th century realignment of the parties — even as its purportedly defining tenets have proven to be negotiable, from small government to antagonism toward autocrats to reduced deficit spending. None of this precludes the existence of nonracist conservatives, to be sure. It just makes them some of the least influential people in their movement, and renders their claims to broader relevance akin to shouting into a void.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, lasal said:

Antifa is just the right wing's boogeyman. Anybody who cares about political principles would start into this conversation vocally recognizing that. What follows that recognition is a rational discussion about citizenship authority. Like the citizenship you exercised to block the Baptist homophobes from Kansas disrupting funerals. You know that the police are constrained by laws, but those same laws allow citizens to counter protest. See below for the rational analysis.

This quote from Zak Cheney-Rice in the New Yorker, describes pretty succinctly why this anti-antifa freakout has gained so much traction on the right. The Republican coalition's reliance on racism is weakening and starting to gasp for air.

… racism has been fundamental to American conservatism, and the G.O.P. in particular, since the mid-20th century realignment of the parties — even as its purportedly defining tenets have proven to be negotiable, from small government to antagonism toward autocrats to reduced deficit spending. None of this precludes the existence of nonracist conservatives, to be sure. It just makes them some of the least influential people in their movement, and renders their claims to broader relevance akin to shouting into a void.

Find a single instance in which I advocated against peaceful counter protest, and I'd happily admit you have a point.  You continue to assign a position to me that I don't hold, ( you're lumping me in as a racist now???)  and have never espoused.  That's OK - that's what some folks do when they've decided that they don't like what someone says, but, don't really have a counter to it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Your post doesn't make any sense, O. 

Yeah that’s the ticket.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

So perhaps ask your dad what he thinks when he sees Nazis marching in US streets.

I've explained many times already. You haven't listened once yet, why should this time be different?

IF my father were still here, he would say those nazis marching in the streets were cunts and probably spit on them.  But he wouldn't swing first to crack their skulls in just because they were chanting NIGGER or JEW go home.  He actually believed in the constitution too.  He fought and earned the Purple Heart for the Constitution, NOT for a bunch of anti-fascists running around acting exactly like fascists.  He would likely spit on them too.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Nowhere have I supported the violence you are supposing.

I never said YOU supported the violence.  But many here do.  @Steam Flyer and @Clove Hitch being the chief advocates for unprovoked violence against Americans they don't agree with.  Why aren't you calling out your own elk?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, lasal said:

Antifa is just the right wing's boogeyman. Anybody who cares about political principles would start into this conversation vocally recognizing that. What follows that recognition is a rational discussion about citizenship authority. Like the citizenship you exercised to block the Baptist homophobes from Kansas disrupting funerals. You know that the police are constrained by laws, but those same laws allow citizens to counter protest. See below for the rational analysis.

This quote from Zak Cheney-Rice in the New Yorker, describes pretty succinctly why this anti-antifa freakout has gained so much traction on the right. The Republican coalition's reliance on racism is weakening and starting to gasp for air.

… racism has been fundamental to American conservatism, and the G.O.P. in particular, since the mid-20th century realignment of the parties — even as its purportedly defining tenets have proven to be negotiable, from small government to antagonism toward autocrats to reduced deficit spending. None of this precludes the existence of nonracist conservatives, to be sure. It just makes them some of the least influential people in their movement, and renders their claims to broader relevance akin to shouting into a void.

Shouting into the void describes A_Guy, Snore and the like.

Soreass, Jeffreaux, Dog all fit in with the new GOP. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Shootist Jeff said:

IF my father were still here, he would say those nazis marching in the streets were cunts and probably spit on them.  But he wouldn't swing first to crack their skulls in just because they were chanting NIGGER or JEW go home.  He actually believed in the constitution too.  He fought and earned the Purple Heart for the Constitution, NOT for a bunch of anti-fascists running around acting exactly like fascists.  He would likely spit on them too.  

Yeah well... so far, very few examples of AntiFa "swinging first." On those occasions you can see (if you're paying attention) what I've said about them.

Here's the thing: AntiFa is just a chaotic group of people who hate fascists (Nazis, white nationalists, etc). Some of them wear Communist symbols, which apparently makes some righties piss themselves in fear.  Some are eager for violence. They're not a unified group under any remotely unified leadership or uniting principles, other than hating fascism.

Nazis, now they are not necessarily united under a single leader but they ARE united by a loathsome ideology which includes use of violence against a wide range of their enemies (ie everybody with good sense).

For about the fifteenth time.

And here's the part where you either back down and admit you've been wrong, or you claim once again that Nazis and AntiFa are equal.

 

1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I never said YOU supported the violence.  But many here do.  @Steam Flyer and @Clove Hitch being the chief advocates for unprovoked violence against Americans they don't agree with.  Why aren't you calling out your own elk?

Wrong, I have ever advocated unprovoked violence against Nazis. As long as they stay quietly at home and keep their lust for genocide to themselves, I'm fine.

I get that the law does not consider marching in the street chanting slogans in favor of genocide to be sufficient provocation, but I do. Sometimes the law is an idiot

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Olsonist said:
4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That's where you're wrong Philly - NOBODY is shrugging anything off or saying "Meh".   

This is Guy not shrugging anything off or saying "Meh":

On 9/10/2019 at 9:44 PM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - her tragedy negates the fact that employing violence to suppress an opinion you oppose is wrong?

Hey AGITC....  I've grudgingly come to the conclusion that the two halves of 'Murica are simply speaking two very distinct languages.  Its like they don't understand what you or I say and copy/paste our words into Google translate from common American English to "Angry Liberal English".  And viola, our words spit out into a completely different meaning for them.  I would say it comes out like Swahili...... but I'm learning a little Swahili and Swahili makes more sense then they do sometimes most times.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:
7 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I never said YOU supported the violence.  But many here do.  @Steam Flyer and @Clove Hitch being the chief advocates for unprovoked violence against Americans they don't agree with.  Why aren't you calling out your own elk?

Wrong, I have ever advocated unprovoked violence against Nazis. As long as they stay quietly at home and keep their lust for genocide to themselves, I'm fine.

I get that the law does not consider marching in the street chanting slogans in favor of genocide to be sufficient provocation, but I do. Sometimes the law is an idiot

- DSK

Thank you for making my point.  Saved for future use....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Hey AGITC....  I've grudgingly come to the conclusion that the two halves of 'Murica are simply speaking two very distinct languages.  Its like they don't understand what you or I say and copy/paste our words into Google translate from common American English to "Angry Liberal English".  And viola, our words spit out into a completely different meaning for them.  I would say it comes out like Swahili...... but I'm learning a little Swahili and Swahili makes more sense then they do sometimes most times.  

Dude, I totally know what you mean. That’s why I quoted Guy back to himself. I didn’t think he would understand my English. Apparently I was right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Hey AGITC....  I've grudgingly come to the conclusion that the two halves of 'Murica are simply speaking two very distinct languages.  Its like they don't understand what you or I say and copy/paste our words into Google translate from common American English to "Angry Liberal English".  And viola, our words spit out into a completely different meaning for them.  I would say it comes out like Swahili...... but I'm learning a little Swahili and Swahili makes more sense then they do sometimes most times.  

Could be - more likely is that they are just enjoying the slagging, and think it's cute to project a baseless assertion and then challenge you to defend it.   That's OK - I'm good affording those comments the consideration they deserve, knowing full well that it's the keyboard confidentiality that's comforting them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Olsonist said:

Dude, I totally know what you mean. That’s why I quoted Guy back to himself. I didn’t think he would understand my English.

I didn't question your quote - I questioned your assertion.  I know the two are similar, but.... yeah, not at all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Wrong, I have ever advocated unprovoked violence against Nazis. As long as they stay quietly at home and keep their lust for genocide to themselves, I'm fine.

I get that the law does not consider marching in the street chanting slogans in favor of genocide to be sufficient provocation, but I do. Sometimes the law is an idiot

- DSK

Hey @phillysailor, what do you think of your elk's statements above?  Any condemnation, or are you giving him a silent pass?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I didn't question your quote - I questioned your assertion.  I know the two are similar, but.... yeah, not at all. 

My mistake. You have difficulty understanding your own English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Could be - more likely is that they are just enjoying the slagging, and think it's cute to project a baseless assertion and then challenge you to defend it.   That's OK - I'm good affording those comments the consideration they deserve, knowing full well that it's the keyboard confidentiality that's comforting them. 

Nyet, tovarisch. I use a screen name but a LOT of SA'ers know me. Not hiding a thing.

 

1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:
8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Wrong, I have Never advocated unprovoked violence against Nazis. As long as they stay quietly at home and keep their lust for genocide to themselves, I'm fine.

I get that the law does not consider marching in the street chanting slogans in favor of genocide to be sufficient provocation, but I do. Sometimes the law is an idiot

- DSK

Hey @phillysailor, what do you think of your elk's statements above?  Any condemnation, or are you giving him a silent pass?

Typo in the above quote, but I think the gist of it is perfectly accurate. Exactly what I have always said and will continue to say.

Among the many things you don't seem to grasp, when you look hard for the actual facts, and use good sense/reason to arrive at opinions, you very rarely have to lie to cover your own stupidity.

- DSK

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Among the many things you don't seem to grasp, when you look hard for the actual facts, and use good sense/reason to arrive at opinions, you very rarely have to lie to cover your own stupidity.

- DSK

I never accused you of lying.  I actually appreciate your honesty that you openly advocate for violence to shut down opposing political beliefs.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nyet, tovarisch. I use a screen name but a LOT of SA'ers know me. Not hiding a thing.

<snip>

- DSK

So - you act like you do in here when you're sitting across the table from someone?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - you act like you do in here when you're sitting across the table from someone?  

Yep

Luckily I don't hang out with many Nazis

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I never accused you of lying.  I actually appreciate your honesty that you openly advocate for violence to shut down opposing political beliefs.  

Well, that's your twisted impression because I don't like your pals.

Doesn't make it the truth, at all.

- DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Yeah - that's it.  Thanks again - I can ALWAYS count on you to tell me what I'm thinking! 

I can’t tell you what you’re thinking but I can tell you what you’ve typed. It’s not clear that those are the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Olsonist said:

I can’t tell you what you’re thinking but I can tell you what you’re typing. It’s not clear that those are the same thing.

It certainly is - but, it doesn't comport with your comment.  besides - I know you are but what am I? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, The Joker said:

The broad brush has been applied to the right multiple times in this thread alone.

 Ironic that you only see it when applied to Antifa.  

It does raise a point do you identify with communists socialists or anarchists?  

Because those were the groups painted as part of Antifa. 

Why, I identify with anarchy.

But not necessarily with anarchists, of course. 

Not ironic in the least if I don't care about how right-wingers are perceived.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Shouting into the void describes A_Guy, Snore and the like.

Soreass, Jeffreaux, Dog all fit in with the new GOP. 

There's really not much holding the Republican party together. Well, not much that you can talk about in polite company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Find a single instance in which I advocated against peaceful counter protest, and I'd happily admit you have a point.  You continue to assign a position to me that I don't hold, ( you're lumping me in as a racist now???)  and have never espoused.  That's OK - that's what some folks do when they've decided that they don't like what someone says, but, don't really have a counter to it. 

When it comes to antifa, I quoted several of your posts where you advocate that they back down, deescalate, and or leave the scene. Now, as you know as a counter protestor yourself, that's just like saying you don't think antifa should show up at all. Instead of pushing the fake antifa freakout, you might recognize that these nazi antichrists are out to start shit far more intensely than the homophobic and anti abortion "free speech" advocates that you block and are ready to stomp. How 'bout helping out with some real suggestions rather than this calm dialogue nonsense that you were somehow capable of seriously saying? I don't think you could have been too serious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can’t believe that a group of snowflakes hanging out in their safe places with their participation trophies could cause such problems for a group of manly American he-men destined to protect our Eurocentric way of life.  The victims!  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2019 at 6:46 AM, Dog said:

Our vets used violence against Nazis because they invaded their neighbors...not an asshole move. Beating a journalist and dousing him with an Antifa “milkshake” because you don't like his reportage... stone cold asshole move.

The reason someone clobbered Andy Ngo wasn't because they "didn't like his reportage"; it's because they knew he wasn't a journalist in the first place.  But rather, an active member of the alt-right.  Google him, and you'll find that, since then, someone got video evidence of Andy being part of a group of alt-righters planning a violent attack, and Quillette (the online site he wrote for) fired him.  So he can't even pretend to be a journalist anymore.  

On 9/10/2019 at 12:06 AM, Olsonist said:

I'm not understanding why you're putting anarchists in the lower-left. I see anarchist as just radical but not in any left right sort of way and I sure don't see them being particularly democratic. I don't see antifa as anarchist at all.

As for libertarians, for the vast majority, it is a right wing flag of convenience. Ronulans. So yeah, lower-right.

If the axis is authoritarian vs democratic?  It's kind of a no-brainer that anarchists are at the completely opposite end from "authoritarian".  That's the whole point, innit?   "Anarchism: belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion." 

If anything, it's past democracy, on that axis.

 

On 9/10/2019 at 1:44 PM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I rode w/the PGR - I would have personally LOVED a chance to knock the hell outta the WBC Kooks.  They never provided enough provocation to warrant a physical response.  We won - by providing the calm barrier to their attempts to disrupt funerals w/their idiotic message.  If we'd have done what we wanted to and knocked them down and burned their signs?  WE would have been the bad guys, and THEY would have gotten sympathy to their plight.  

I bolded the bit that makes all the difference.  If WBC had acted like the alt-right thugs act, I guess it's you we'd be having to defend... 

 

On 9/11/2019 at 2:56 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Question - how many of you even knew Antifa existed or cared about them streetfighting with Nazis in the 1980s?

I knew... a few.  Good friends with 4 of them, in Vancouver. All of them were good guys, solid, gentle, nice... just maybe sorta fucked up, on a personal level.  

The way Rob explained it, was that he drinks too much, and tends to get violent when he gets drunk, and he can't help that  -  it's just how he was raised (dad was an abusive drunk)  -  but what he can control, is who he gets into fights with.  He'd start hating himself if he hurt anyone he cared about, grew up to be like his dad...  But violent racist shitheads who're trying to find gays and mixed-race couples to beat up?  Beating them up gives you a reason to feel good about yourself.  Defending the innocent, and all that.  

I sort of assumed the same was true, in some way or another, about Mike, and Fraser, and Jay.  But Rob & I were room-mates, at one point, so he's the only one I had an in-depth conversation about it with.

Nobody called themselves Antifa or anything, back then, though, just Punks.  

Met one of the current antifa, on a jobsite, couple years back (summer before Charlottesville?).  We bonded over NOFX.  Same vibe.  Except he kept inviting me to rallies and protests when racist skinhead bands played anywhere nearby.  I guess there was an email list he subscribed to... I had to explain that I was (a) never more than the guy who buys you a beer, after, I weigh 135 for fuck's sake; and (b) way too old for that shit nowadays, anyways.  But rock on, kid, by all means, rock on.

The funny thing about all 5 of them, is they're some of the most gentle, friendly, genuinely nice guys I've ever met. 

Which I definitely can't say about racist skins I've met.  Had a room-mate back in Montreal, who was dating one, and wound up being home for some of their parties.  Got a look at what they're like amongst each other?  Assholes, even to each other.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@frenchie I thought about it and if I can functionally label libertarians as waving a right wing flag of convenience, hi Tom!, then yeah, anarchists are the left wing equivalent. As for democratic or authoritarian, well, they’re anarchists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, frenchie said:

The reason someone clobbered Andy Ngo wasn't because they "didn't like his reportage"; it's because they knew he wasn't a journalist in the first place.  But rather, an active member of the alt-right.  Google him, and you'll find that, since then, someone got video evidence of Andy being part of a group of alt-righters planning a violent attack, and Quillette (the online site he wrote for) fired him.  So he can't even pretend to be a journalist anymore.  

Why do you think they care about this? This isn't news anymore and every one of the rightwing shitstains is still bullshitting about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2019 at 9:17 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
On 9/10/2019 at 6:41 PM, White Lightnin' said:

As it's coming up to the end of baseball season, I propose we try something different. After the world series, open the stadiums to the public. Leave the bats. Right wing nut jobs enter from the right side. Left wing nut jobs from the left. No rules, no laws. Have organ donor transplant teams on standby. Sell tickets on ppv to cover falling infrastructure. Media is only allowed to film if they are on the field with combatants.

A political version of "Purge"

 

WL

Will the concessionaires be working the stands w/cold beer and peanuts?   I"m in. 

 

7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:
7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Wrong, I have ever advocated unprovoked violence against Nazis. As long as they stay quietly at home and keep their lust for genocide to themselves, I'm fine.

I get that the law does not consider marching in the street chanting slogans in favor of genocide to be sufficient provocation, but I do. Sometimes the law is an idiot

- DSK

Hey @phillysailor, what do you think of your elk's statements above?  Any condemnation, or are you giving him a silent pass?

As I see it, the white supremacists name the field of battle, and Antifa promises to be there to meet them. If the racist assholes go to “marches” with sticks, knives, shields and masks & they get what they deserve I shall shed no tear. I don’t care what they are chanting.

If they chant about genocide and white supremacy, anti semitism and violence towards LGBTQ then at some point the exercise becomes terrorism and deserves a societal response.

We are a nation of laws. But you’d be an idiot to refuse to recognize the powers of ostracism, public rebuke and silencing that society and the government can exercise when desired.

You’d be a similar idiot to say violence has not been used in our country to enforce social mores. From Salem to Selma, violence has been meted out to control, silence and kill those whose words and actions threaten societal norms, typically by those in power against the disenfranchised or powerless.

Whats happening now is more interesting. The extreme right is escalating their use of violence to effectively terrorize society, while at the same time denying that is their goal. But now, the society they wish to represent aren’t standing for it... they are fighting back instead. 

And that has the right wing confused and upset, since antipathy by whites against lesser groups has been the norm throughout our nation’s history, made us cohesive as a union. Now even tacit racism and quiet racism is called out and labeled. 

So people feel lost in their own country, wondering where our unity has gone.

We need more forceful leadership which vigorously rejects racism in all its forms. We need to ostracize and publicly denounce NAZIs and white supremacists AS ONE. Not some mealy-mouthed “they get to say what they want” bullshit.

They are evil and need to go away. Be shut out of public discourse and told to clean up their act before they return. Their “reporters” tossed from the WH along with Steven Miller and his ilk. They need to be actively rejected by the GOP in clear “don’t show up at our convention” terms and don’t contribute.

Civic leaders should have them “march” while sirens wail and fire trucks create fog patterns above and the noisy pumps drown out their voices and enthusiasm. 

If society rejected these assholes, Antifa wouldn’t have to meet them with violence.

Antifa is a result of the GOP & now Trump coddling extremists. Lay the blame at their feet.

Steamers is just protecting his country. Not saying he’s right, I’m saying he’s patriotic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
10 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I never accused you of lying.  I actually appreciate your honesty that you openly advocate for violence to shut down opposing political beliefs.  

Well, that's your twisted impression because I don't like your pals.

Doesn't make it the truth, at all.

- DSK

Yeah, actually it does make it the truth.  Using the search feature to find this took me all of about 10 sec.

On 9/3/2019 at 12:19 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Yes indeed. I see no reason to retract my statements, nor do I regard beating the fuck out of a marching Nazi as "throwing the first punch."

Shall I post your other statements where you advocate beating the fuck out of nazis or killing nazis where ever you find them?  As I said, I appreciate and respect your honest on this.  Why are you tap dancing about it now?  Just own it like you did in your earlier quote above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, that's your twisted impression because I don't like your pals.

And fuck you!  They are not my "pals".  Because I call you on your advocacy for violence to shut down speech in contravention with our laws and what our democracy stands for, Doesn't make me a "nazi sympathizer"?  It would be no worse than if you took someone to task for advocating violence against radical jihadi muslim adherents who have committed no crime other than talking about it and they turned around and called you a terrorist sympathizer.  

The fact that you don't get what you are actually advocating FOR is wrong, no matter how right your cause may be, tells me that you are blinded by your ideology.  Nazi and racist ideology should absolutely be opposed at every turn.  But if we turn to violence to suppress speech that we don't like, then we have become no better than that which we hate so much.  It goes against every core value we supposedly hold dear in America.  

Like you, I passionately HATE nazis and their hateful ideology.  But I love the Constitution more.  And the constitution says they have the right to say all the hateful shit they want as long as it stays strictly speech.  As a citizen, you also have the right to shout "FUCK YOU NAZI CUNTS!" at the top of your lungs and counter-protest all you want and drown them out.  But your right to oppose them stops at their nose.... you do not have the right to swing at their face because you don't like their words.  Period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, phillysailor said:

 

As I see it, the white supremacists name the field of battle, and Antifa promises to be there to meet them. If the racist assholes go to “marches” with sticks, knives, shields and masks & they get what they deserve I shall shed no tear. I don’t care what they are chanting.

If they chant about genocide and white supremacy, anti semitism and violence towards LGBTQ then at some point the exercise becomes terrorism and deserves a societal response.

We are a nation of laws. But you’d be an idiot to refuse to recognize the powers of ostracism, public rebuke and silencing that society and the government can exercise when desired.

You’d be a similar idiot to say violence has not been used in our country to enforce social mores. From Salem to Selma, violence has been meted out to control, silence and kill those whose words and actions threaten societal norms, typically by those in power against the disenfranchised or powerless.

Whats happening now is more interesting. The extreme right is escalating their use of violence to effectively terrorize society, while at the same time denying that is their goal. But now, the society they wish to represent aren’t standing for it... they are fighting back instead. 

And that has the right wing confused and upset, since antipathy by whites against lesser groups has been the norm throughout our nation’s history, made us cohesive as a union. Now even tacit racism and quiet racism is called out and labeled. 

So people feel lost in their own country, wondering where our unity has gone.

We need more forceful leadership which vigorously rejects racism in all its forms. We need to ostracize and publicly denounce NAZIs and white supremacists AS ONE. Not some mealy-mouthed “they get to say what they want” bullshit.

They are evil and need to go away. Be shut out of public discourse and told to clean up their act before they return. Their “reporters” tossed from the WH along with Steven Miller and his ilk. They need to be actively rejected by the GOP in clear “don’t show up at our convention” terms and don’t contribute.

Civic leaders should have them “march” while sirens wail and fire trucks create fog patterns above and the noisy pumps drown out their voices and enthusiasm. 

If society rejected these assholes, Antifa wouldn’t have to meet them with violence.

Antifa is a result of the GOP & now Trump coddling extremists. Lay the blame at their feet.

 

I have no issue with any of that and have said that society should do whatever is needed to drown them out and shame them into slinking back under their rock.  But you cannot say we are a "nation of laws" and in the same breath say its OK to crack skulls because of their hateful speech. 

What I find most interesting is that you defend the use of violence in our past to "enforce societal norms", yet those examples are ones which are universally thought of as horrifically wrong.  Selma?  YGBSM!  I guess it was bad to crack some nigger skulls back then because you liked their message, but its OK to crack some skinhead skulls now because you disagree with their message.  That's some fucked up logic, right there.  I guess if we apply filly logic, then the shooting of the 4 anti-war protesters by the NatGuard in Ohio was ok.  It was just using violence to enforce "societal norms" at the time, right?  I thought the entire point was to not repeat historical mistakes.  

Quote

Steamers is just protecting his country. Not saying he’s right, I’m saying he’s patriotic.

No.  I get that you and steamers "think" he is protecting his country.  But he's not.  He's actually endangering it by thinking his cause puts it above the rule of law.  As I said earlier, if our democracy is not strong enough to survive a bunch of shitbags chanting "NIGGER and JEW" without resorting to violence, then we might as well stop the charade now and just get on with being authoritarian.  Steamers is not a patriot, he's a vigilante.  

Just saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And fuck you!  They are not my "pals".  Because I call you on your advocacy for violence to shut down speech in contravention with our laws and what our democracy stands for, Doesn't make me a "nazi sympathizer"?  It would be no worse than if you took someone to task for advocating violence against radical jihadi muslim adherents who have committed no crime other than talking about it and they turned around and called you a terrorist sympathizer.  

The fact that you don't get what you are actually advocating FOR is wrong, no matter how right your cause may be, tells me that you are blinded by your ideology.  Nazi and racist ideology should absolutely be opposed at every turn.  But if we turn to violence to suppress speech that we don't like, then we have become no better than that which we hate so much.  It goes against every core value we supposedly hold dear in America.  

Like you, I passionately HATE nazis and their hateful ideology.  But I love the Constitution more.  And the constitution says they have the right to say all the hateful shit they want as long as it stays strictly speech.  As a citizen, you also have the right to shout "FUCK YOU NAZI CUNTS!" at the top of your lungs and counter-protest all you want and drown them out.  But your right to oppose them stops at their nose.... you do not have the right to swing at their face because you don't like their words.  Period.

Yep, you hate Nazis but hate nazi counterprotesters even more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites