rhpaw

R2AK 2020

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, SeattleB said:

Anyone think this combined with 2 sliding rowing stations could move a 34' boat?  It looks appealing because it can help go down a tall and angled transom, but the prop seems small.  Trying to work on a system so we have the bikes on top, without too much complication that can fail.  The good idea of the cable is the ability to pull it out of the water to clean off.  This same boat 2 years ago was driven by 3 sliding rowing stations and did 3.5 knots (two single oar and 1 double off the back).  

s-l1600.jpg

How large is the prop? How heavy is the boat? How much wetted area? Is there any gearing in the boxes, or is it a direct drive from pedals to prop? Questions from people who know this stuff may follow...…..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2020 at 6:58 AM, SeattleB said:

Anyone think this combined with 2 sliding rowing stations could move a 34' boat?  It looks appealing because it can help go down a tall and angled transom, but the prop seems small.  Trying to work on a system so we have the bikes on top, without too much complication that can fail.  The good idea of the cable is the ability to pull it out of the water to clean off.  This same boat 2 years ago was driven by 3 sliding rowing stations and did 3.5 knots (two single oar and 1 double off the back).  

s-l1600.jpg

That looks like one of the Mitrpaks off eBay. I bought one for the 18 foot daysailer I am building. I am not using the flex shaft but a chain drive to the prop. After a lot of work on it I noticed that Rick Willoughby (the pedal drive king) had told me that that size Mitrpak is not stout enough for long term use.  He says the drive pin on the pinion gear shears off.  Some one on this forum also said the same thing. Since I was already committed I took the gearbox apart and enlarged the pin from 3/32 to 1/8" It took some doing as the pion gear was very hard so I softened it in a forge to drill it and then re heat treated it. I have yet to try it out. That's what I know about that gearbox set up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Quilbilly said:

That looks like one of the Mitrpaks off eBay. I bought one for the 18 foot daysailer I am building. I am not using the flex shaft but a chain drive to the prop. After a lot of work on it I noticed that Rick Willoughby (the pedal drive king) had told me that that size Mitrpak is not stout enough for long term use.  He says the drive pin on the pinion gear shears off.  Some one on this forum also said the same thing. Since I was already committed I took the gearbox apart and enlarged the pin from 3/32 to 1/8" It took some doing as the pion gear was very hard so I softened it in a forge to drill it and then re heat treated it. I have yet to try it out. That's what I know about that gearbox set up. 

Great to know, thanks!  The plan was to use this on R2AK.  I might keep looking around before buying this unit.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SeattleB said:

Great to know, thanks!  The plan was to use this on R2AK.  I might keep looking around before buying this unit.  

You need to do a lot more research before buying anything. There are many others out there who have general experience of pedal power on boats and on R2AK especially. Speak to them. Russ Brown and the guys at Turning Point are two that spring to mind for starters.

Rick Willoughby has helped me with many things on my boat, especially electric drive. We have also discussed pedal drive. Still want to do it one day....I am no expert and happy to stand corrected, the conversations were years ago, but here goes:

Your set up needs to be geared to what your legs can produce to get ~200 prop rpm. And over long periods of time. To do that you will need 2:1 or 3:1 gearing. Prop size and pitch is important. The bigger the prop diameter the greater the tip speed and hence propulsion. You shouldn’t be looking at anything less than ~ 18” blades and pitch does make a difference. You will have to try many pitches to get the best one for your setup. Rick is not a fan of flex drive systems because they are not particularly efficient and can have a jerky motion which is hard on the legs. If you must have flex drive, keep the length short and the bends as gentle as possible. The ergonomics of how you sit and drive those pedals is also hugely important.

I only offer this to help make you aware that it is not as easy as buying what seems to be a simple eloquent solution. If it was, many others in R2AK would have adopted it years ago.

Good Luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SeattleB said:

Great to know, thanks!  The plan was to use this on R2AK.  I might keep looking around before buying this unit.  

There was an extended discussion on pedal drive here, I think it was in the 2019 R2AK thread, maybe the 2018 thread, I can't remember.  I seem to remember that @Alex W was one of the guys with a vast and detailed knowledge of the subject.  Huge amounts of valuable information there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Tunnel Rat said:

There was an extended discussion on pedal drive here, I think it was in the 2019 R2AK thread, maybe the 2018 thread, I can't remember.  I seem to remember that @Alex W was one of the guys with a vast and detailed knowledge of the subject.  Huge amounts of valuable information there.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2020 at 6:58 AM, SeattleB said:

Anyone think this combined with 2 sliding rowing stations could move a 34' boat?  It looks appealing because it can help go down a tall and angled transom, but the prop seems small.  Trying to work on a system so we have the bikes on top, without too much complication that can fail.  The good idea of the cable is the ability to pull it out of the water to clean off.  This same boat 2 years ago was driven by 3 sliding rowing stations and did 3.5 knots (two single oar and 1 double off the back).  

s-l1600.jpg

For anyone thinking about building a pedal drive, I was in the Marine Thrift store in Port Townsend today and saw these. There are two of them, it leads me to believe  they might have been off a trimaran or maybe a cat. I didn't ask about them so I don't the price or anything. They seemed really well built probably better than they need to be for a week or two of R2Ak. 

IMG_2723.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't say whether your boat is a monohull or multihull. I can't speak to whether that drive will be sufficient, but displacement is critical for human power. Either way, 3.5 knots from 3 rowing stations is pretty fast. How long could you sustain that speed?

I'm curious to know what other boats have achieved under human power. Last year on Tatiana (Team Narwhal) we had two sliding seat rowing stations and two pedal drives. One pedaler could sustain 1.5-2 knots indefinitely. Add another pedaler and you got around 3 knots. Same for the rowing stations, although at 24 foot beam with 12-foot sweep oars, there was a tendency to go in circles with only one rower :-)

Having all 4 crew row/pedal gave us around 3.2-3.5 knots. So most of the time it didn't make sense to have more than 2, although there were a few contrary tides where we needed to sprint for 20 minutes or so.

Our pedal drive designer (Joel) used model airplane props and we experimented with a few different sizes. I think we were around 16" diameter but I don't know the pitch. We also had derailleurs and had 2-3 effective gears, which was a great help when pedaling for long stretches.

I preferred rowing to pedaling. I've never gotten used to pedaling while sitting, and the constant wet was hell on my achy old pre-arthritic knees. Even in high gear, it wasn't like pedaling a road bike up a hill. But on the oars, you were using your whole body and stayed warmer. Plus there's that satisfying surge in the middle of the stroke. On other (non-boat-related) forums, it seems that the consensus is that pedaling is more efficient than rowing, even if you're only using your legs, but I'm not sure that applies to recumbent.

Tatiana is 32 feet LOA and when launched, she displaced around 3500 pounds ready to sail (including a 10-horse motor and fuel). The boat is heavier now as I've added cruising amenities over the years, and we were probably the heaviest multihull in the race last year. We're cruisers more than racers and had a lot of food, gear, water, and spares. (I have a *long* list of stuff I will leave home if/when I do the race again).

What speeds have other racers attained (for relatively long times)? And what boat/displacement?

1364548007_2019-05-1912_28.51-1copy.thumb.jpg.fb94b24e9f167eb51546ba3495997279.jpg

2019-03-23 12.39.57 copy.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2020 at 8:32 PM, Quilbilly said:

For anyone thinking about building a pedal drive, I was in the Marine Thrift store in Port Townsend today and saw these. There are two of them, it leads me to believe  they might have been off a trimaran or maybe a cat. I didn't ask about them so I don't the price or anything. They seemed really well built probably better than they need to be for a week or two of R2Ak. 

IMG_2723.JPG

Pretty sure that is the pedal drives off https://r2ak.com/2018-teams-full-race/team-mknotkrazee/  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone know what's inside the above units? They are the ones from mknotcrazee. I looked at them and can't tell if it's a belt or bevel gears.They are nicely built and I may see if I can take them apart and have a look inside. Anyone interested in one or know what's in there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Anyone know what's inside the above units? They are the ones from mknotcrazee. I looked at them and can't tell if it's a belt or bevel gears.They are nicely built and I may see if I can take them apart and have a look inside. Anyone interested in one or know what's in there?

Did you happen to take any photos or recall how they mount? Also any idea on price?

We have an F82R and are considering whether the R2AK is in our future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are 27' from the cranks to the prop. can't remember how they mount, but there may be photo's or video. The question is, what's inside? I may take some tools down there and see if I can peek. It took me months to build my unit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm guessing it'll be a chain (bike chain or industrial) running down through the tube and around a roughly small cog (10t in 1/2" bike pitch) at the prop shaft.  It could be bevel gears though.  Please let us know what you find out!

I base this on the size of the housing at the top, it looks big enough to enclose a good sized bike chainring and some jockey pulleys to re-direct the chain straight down.

It's a nice looking setup.

In R2AK news I'm very excited by the Sail Like a Girl team this year.  I know all crew members announced so far and have sailed with most of them.  It's a great mix of sailors with a lot of experience (this has been true for them every year, but even more so this year).  They'll be a team to watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to be bevel gears.

 I tried to remove the cover plate from the lower end and it's glued on, but some oil came out, so not chain or belt. I'm hoping someone with a monohull wants one so I can buy the other. I could have bought them both, but someone who needs it should get it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have the real estate, mount both of them. Totally worth it.

Screenshot_20200201-122303~2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

It seems to be bevel gears.

 I tried to remove the cover plate from the lower end and it's glued on, but some oil came out, so not chain or belt. I'm hoping someone with a monohull wants one so I can buy the other. I could have bought them both, but someone who needs it should get it.

We had an  oil pool

in the bottom of our chain drive with an oil seal around the shaft,. The orientation of the upper part leads me to think it might be chain. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Units were sold today to someone from Seattle. I'd like to see photos of the insides... Not chain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm hoping this event pushes pedal drive development, so the rest of us can have it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am the proud owner of both pedal drives.  They will both get mounted on a heavy ass Beneteau 345, along with 2 sliding rowing stations.  These pedal drives are beautifully made and light.  I'm gonna open one of them up later next week to see if they can be rotated 90°.  It appears they can.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more thing I checked... 1/8 rotation of the pedals gives you 1 full rotation of the prop.  Sound optimal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone know if anyone has attempted to rig up a pedal drive to an existing inboard prop and transmission, say, to a sail drive system? Looking ahead to 2021 at a couple of boats that would need to have their diesel stripped out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/1/2020 at 7:34 PM, SeattleB said:

One more thing I checked... 1/8 rotation of the pedals gives you 1 full rotation of the prop.  Sound optimal?

I think you will need to use smaller props as the props on those units are huge with lots of pitch. ACP propeller is the place to get them. About $20 each, so start saving. Please do post photos of the innards of those units. If you find the guy that made them, tell him he needs to join the club of people who sacrificed all to make a decent fucking pedal drive. Actually, it would just be nice to know who did them.

I wanted to buy those things ($200 bucks) just to take one apart and then sell them to the highest bidder, but that didn't feel quite right.

Maybe when you guys are done with them they should go on the next boat that needs them....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, J24TrickBag said:

Anyone know if anyone has attempted to rig up a pedal drive to an existing inboard prop and transmission, say, to a sail drive system? Looking ahead to 2021 at a couple of boats that would need to have their diesel stripped out.

It has been attempted with an outboard and the gear ratio didn't work, suspect it would be the same with an inboard/sail drive

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Raven NW said:

It has been attempted with an outboard and the gear ratio didn't work, suspect it would be the same with an inboard/sail drive

Except the inboard might enable you use a standard bicycle gear cassette to allow for multiple gear ratios?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

I think you will need to use smaller props as the props on those units are huge with lots of pitch. ACP propeller is the place to get them. About $20 each, so start saving. Please do post photos of the innards of those units. If you find the guy that made them, tell him he needs to join the club of people who sacrificed all to make a decent fucking pedal drive. Actually, it would just be nice to know who did them.

I wanted to buy those things ($200 bucks) just to take one apart and then sell them to the highest bidder, but that didn't feel quite right.

Maybe when you guys are done with them they should go on the next boat that needs them....

I actually chatted via text with the guy who built them.  Looks like he works for a machine shop, they built these completely from scratch at a cost of $3500+.  He said they worked great for the 2 days they used them, they ended up quitting the race early (but not because of the pedal drive).  He did not seem interested in promoting his company since he was sure of the long term durability.  I hope to have them rigged up enough to test them out within a couple of weeks.  We will see how well they hold up, they seem crazy well built.  But with anything built from scratch and sitting in the seawater you never know.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had passed them right before they quit and talked to them. We were both in the lead I think, so not sure why they quit. I certainly came very close to quitting multiple times, so definitely not judging them. Doing that race in a beach cat is for the young, unless you are Rodger Mann, I guess. Hoping Roger shows up this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is our first R2AK, Is anyone able suggestions for shipping outboards to Ketchikan, ideally from Port Townsend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AML, Alaska marine lines (Lynden.com). They go from Seattle to SE Alaska weekly with a barge and it's easy. They may even hold it for you in Ketchikan. I think we UPS'd it to them. Don't forget to drain the oil.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of motor? If it's a Yamaha, you can call Westside marine in PT and get them to save a box and packing for your motor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/5/2020 at 1:48 PM, Raven NW said:

This is our first R2AK, Is anyone able suggestions for shipping outboards to Ketchikan, ideally from Port Townsend?

A friend is going to shadow the race in a trawler, i am sure he can carry it for fuel money.

R2akteamgoldenoldies

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, multihuler said:

A friend is going to shadow the race in a trawler

Can your friend also take pictures/video for us addicts stuck in the armchairs by any chance?

Would be incredible. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Floating Duck said:

Can your friend also take pictures/video for us addicts stuck in the armchairs by any chance?

Would be incredible. 

That is his plan, he even bought a high end drone for the job

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/8/2020 at 7:26 AM, multihuler said:

That is his plan, he even bought a high end drone for the job

Canada recently changed their drone laws, just FYI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just changed my drone law too. I bought a gun!

I'm kidding, but they can make me want to buy a gun.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2020 at 1:29 PM, W9GFO said:

Canada recently changed their drone laws, just FYI.

Victoria Harbour is an aerodrome for float planes, so wouldn't want the drone up for that start but will be great once the fleet is away from there, I think the stay away zone is 5km from an airport.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Raven NW said:

Victoria Harbour is an aerodrome for float planes, so wouldn't want the drone up for that start but will be great once the fleet is away from there, I think the stay away zone is 5km from an airport.

 

It's not that you can't use drones, they were used in the inner harbor for previous race starts. It is that you need to be up to date on, and in compliance with their laws - and those laws are a bit more involved than they used to be.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/flying-drone-safely-legally.html

If you really want to use a drone and don't want to jump through all the hoops, then you might consider using one that is under 250g like the Mavic Mini; registration and pilot certificate is not required for drones under 250g.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OR

You could get yourself in a helicopter and fly REALLY FUCKING LOW to all of the boats.

Easier than a drone and it's associated laws...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/13/2020 at 6:45 PM, W9GFO said:

It's not that you can't use drones, they were used in the inner harbor for previous race starts. It is that you need to be up to date on, and in compliance with their laws - and those laws are a bit more involved than they used to be.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/flying-drone-safely-legally.html

If you really want to use a drone and don't want to jump through all the hoops, then you might consider using one that is under 250g like the Mavic Mini; registration and pilot certificate is not required for drones under 250g.

Following the link above, and a few more links, there is an interactive map, my read is no drones within 3 km.  https://nrc.canada.ca/en/drone-tool/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2020 at 2:24 PM, Floating Duck said:

OR

You could get yourself in a helicopter and fly REALLY FUCKING LOW to all of the boats.

 

You mean like this?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, gspot said:

You mean like this?

 

2016 start in PT,

Copter was fighting for sailboat space. Sailboats weren't impressed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, rhpaw said:

2016 start in PT,

Copter was fighting for sailboat space. Sailboats weren't impressed.

Way, WAY worse than a harmless drone!

 

Drones can be very cool:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/19/2020 at 2:29 PM, Raven NW said:

Following the link above, and a few more links, there is an interactive map, my read is no drones within 3 km.  https://nrc.canada.ca/en/drone-tool/

Sure, but with prior authorization I am sure it could be permitted. There was a large commercial drone filming at the start of the race that I participated in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any good ideas for making some kind of mold of the transom of my boat?  The difficulty is being able to mock up and make a system to hold the pedals drives and seats.  Its hard to do this with the boat on the water bouncing around and its over an hour drive to get to my boat.  Its a Beneteau 345.  I was thinking if i had a mold of most of the transom it would really easy to mock this up at home in my garage.  Its challenging because its got a angle and a curve to fit.  Plus the transom on this thing is really thin in the middle so we have to be creative with bracing most of the weight near the pulpit.  

The platform you can see attached into the drain tubes was used in 2018 for a rowing station.  

 

20200118_150623.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SeattleB said:

Any good ideas for making some kind of mold of the transom of my boat?

Scanmar (the Monitor windvane folks) might have drawings for that:

https://www.scanmarinternational.com/scammars-design-process

Quote

Over the years our products have been installed on thousands of boats allowing us to develop a large database of drawings and photographs of various installations. If you’re in the market for a windvane and have a production boat, there is a good chance that we already have a design for her. 

Otherwise, that fold down swim platform(?) looks like a nice planar grid from which to take measurements.  It can be extended to either side if necessary, then replicate its angle in your shop and bend some battens to the measured points.

Or maybe you can attach the bottom of some kind of frame at those two pivot points and then the top at...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks!  I will give them a try first.  Otherwise I might make some thin wood forms and a hot glue gun to replicate the curves.  It would really nice to do most of the mock up and home and test fit on the boat without having to hack things together.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, SeattleB said:

Any good ideas for making some kind of mold of the transom of my boat?  The difficulty is being able to mock up and make a system to hold the pedals drives and seats.  Its hard to do this with the boat on the water bouncing around and its over an hour drive to get to my boat.  Its a Beneteau 345.  I was thinking if i had a mold of most of the transom it would really easy to mock this up at home in my garage.  Its challenging because its got a angle and a curve to fit.  Plus the transom on this thing is really thin in the middle so we have to be creative with bracing most of the weight near the pulpit.  

The platform you can see attached into the drain tubes was used in 2018 for a rowing station.  

 

20200118_150623.jpg

You might have good luck talking to a guy that does aluminum work for fishing boats. That's what I did for mine.

I bolted this right through the super thin transom to wide plywood backing plates. The main mount point was the existing SC27 outboard bracket. (pretty scoukum) 

the floorplate easily held the weight of two men and had no flex for the drive units.

 

FB_IMG_1562279703525.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What size boat is that?  How well did the pedal drives move that boat?  Were pushing a 34' boat with a full interior and 5 people onboard.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, SeattleB said:

What size boat is that?  How well did the pedal drives move that boat?  Were pushing a 34' boat with a full interior and 5 people onboard.  

That's a Santa Cruz 27. With those drives we could do 3 knots fairly easy, but she is pretty light.

My drives were wilderness system with stock props.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, rhpaw said:

My drives were wilderness system with stock props.

According to this video on wilderness drives you would have had to pedal backwards if facing aft - is that what you did or were you somehow able to reverse the pedaling direction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, gspot said:

According to this video on wilderness drives you would have had to pedal backwards if facing aft - is that what you did or were you somehow able to reverse the pedaling direction?

yes, you can rotate the top drive head 180 degrees. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am looking for a spinnaker or whisker pole, 2- 3" diameter 8 - 10 foot range to be used on a 20ft boat.

Close to Port Townsend, or further south to about Portland.

Any leads will be appreciated.

Thank you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, dsackman said:

I am looking for a spinnaker or whisker pole, 2- 3" diameter 8 - 10 foot range to be used on a 20ft boat.

Close to Port Townsend, or further south to about Portland.

Any leads will be appreciated.

Thank you. 

Either add in the hoist height or what make and model of the boat.   There is a wide variety of spinnaker shapes and sizes to choose from for a 20 ft boat.  

- Stumbling 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fisheries Supply swap meet is coming up soon. I’ve bought 2 poles that size there over the years and never paid more than $50. Sorry, both were sold with my last boat. 
 

No guarantee that someone will have one, but I had much better luck there than on Craigslist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2020 at 11:16 AM, dsackman said:

I am looking for a spinnaker or whisker pole, 2- 3" diameter 8 - 10 foot range to be used on a 20ft boat.

Close to Port Townsend, or further south to about Portland.

Any leads will be appreciated.

Thank you. 

For my Martin 241 I have gotten aluminum tubing from Alaskan Copper and Brass, located in Seattle and Portland (I used the PDX one).

 

JM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got around this weekend to playing around with the pedal drives.  These things are quite amazing.  There is about 1/16" of play from when the pedals move to where the prop starts turning.  I cant believe how good the tolerances are for something hand built.  I figured out this weekend that they can easily be rotated, this will allow us to mount the seats on the transom so your facing backwards, but have the props face the correct direction.  I will have one of them mounted temporarily this weekend to test it out.  

 

 

pedal drives.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks really good. 

It's super relaxing looking off the transom and pedalling. 

FB_IMG_1583199740217.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did that come from? Any data on power loss? I'm still sold on belts, thanks to Rick Willoughby, but that looks interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

Where did that come from? Any data on power loss? I'm still sold on belts, thanks to Rick Willoughby, but that looks interesting.

Thought you might be interested. Ricks site is interesting and I thought you might want to take a look.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RHPAW,  I have had good luck splashing molds with U.V. resin from Fiberglas Hawaii.  If you do it in sections and keep the batches small and shaded from the sun it happens as fast as you can go.  Make sure you understand mold making and use aluminum foil for the parting film and modeling clay to bulk up the undercut areas.  Do not attempt this without full understanding of what is involved based on actual experience with a sample layup.  Once you get it it's pretty cool.  Good luck to you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Thought you might be interested. Ricks site is interesting and I thought you might want to take a look.

Wait, did that come from Rick Willoughby? I shouldn't be surprised. You have a link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is somewhat nuts. Unless it works well.

Cardan joints with bearings typically don't like angles >7 and will have significant losses if you exceed that.

I'm sure that cardan joints with bushings like those ones are cheap compared to a bevel gear or belt, but not very efficient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to know what Rick would say about it. Bevel gears (right angle) take about 5 percent of the power per right angle. Belts and pulleys take about 1 percent per belt. Makes one thing that sitting sideways and using belts and pulleys (or chains and sprockets) could be worth the compromise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have done so much work already prepped for this race, and lots of money invested.  I really fear that R2AK is going to be cancelled.  Were just under 3 months away and this damn virus is not even close to going away.  Predictions are the cases will drop in the summer heat, but by then it may be too late to pull it off.  The NW Maritime Center is shutting down operations right now and needs donations just to keep health insurance for its staff.  I realize a sail race is not top priority in the grand scheme of things, but when you spend months and hours thinking about it and prepping it is tough to wait another year.  I think I will have a drink...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, SeattleB said:

I have done so much work already prepped for this race, and lots of money invested.  I really fear that R2AK is going to be cancelled.  Were just under 3 months away and this damn virus is not even close to going away.  Predictions are the cases will drop in the summer heat, but by then it may be too late to pull it off.  The NW Maritime Center is shutting down operations right now and needs donations just to keep health insurance for its staff.  I realize a sail race is not top priority in the grand scheme of things, but when you spend months and hours thinking about it and prepping it is tough to wait another year.  I think I will have a drink...

Nobody knows what is going to happen. At the current increase in cases of some 2,000 a day and no abatement, and with the race a mere 2 months away, you can make your own deductions.

Last year many spent time on all the preparations and some could not even leave USA shores due to the weather. Stuff happens.

Stay hydrated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SeattleB said:

I have done so much work already prepped for this race, and lots of money invested.  I really fear that R2AK is going to be cancelled.  Were just under 3 months away and this damn virus is not even close to going away.  Predictions are the cases will drop in the summer heat, but by then it may be too late to pull it off.  The NW Maritime Center is shutting down operations right now and needs donations just to keep health insurance for its staff.  I realize a sail race is not top priority in the grand scheme of things, but when you spend months and hours thinking about it and prepping it is tough to wait another year.  I think I will have a drink...

Yup, everyone that is intending to do the R2AK (as well as other races like Vic Maui) has put in a lot of time and resources. Nothing anyone of us can do about it, Just keep preparing and worse case is we will all be in good shape for next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, 40Plus said:

Yup, everyone that is intending to do the R2AK (as well as other races like Vic Maui) has put in a lot of time and resources. Nothing anyone of us can do about it, Just keep preparing and worse case is we will all be in good shape for next year. 

No doubt, i could have the boat 100% ready if we have to wait another year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
a3df1d5b-d31f-4c60-b4b0-6bad70b17ff1.png
 
 
To the R2AK faithful united in isolation, 

The echo in the pasta aisle is new, as are the nods and waves which have taken the place of handshakes and bearhugs. Port Townsend, home to the R2AK’s race start and SEVENTY48’s epic finish line, is usually a huggy place. Illness epicenters have a way of changing that, and it has. COVID is real in every direction of our reality, in our wallet, our food, our friends. It dangles on the edge of our thoughts, sits at the back of our tongues and rings in our ears. My ears ring because the media refuse to talk about anything else. But it’s affecting our race, too.

The presence of COVID-19 began as a distant cry and has grown into this thundering beast clearing our streets and emptying workplaces, but look, I’m going to lead with the punchline: Race to Alaska and SEVENTY48 are happening until they are not. If fact, I won't cancel a race unless there is a directive levied against the activity from some body of governance that has the chops to levy it or, its termination serves to lessen the exposure to COVID. 

In defense of our race, and the value of it running as planned, I offer the following ripostes: 

“Find a better way to experience extreme social distancing.”

“It’s a needed family break from what has turned into a six-month summer vacation for our kids.” 

“The races are custom-designed entertainment for the masses of forced and self-isolated victims worldwide.” 

This is the low hanging fruit, my friend. The real reasons?

First, ask yourself: Why do you race? Why do you watch racers? What attracts you to adventure? These races reflect many elements of the human condition and the human heart. Some are easy to tick off: meeting challenges head-on, the losing of oneself in a greater landscape, the power afforded to a person for having just done it. Overcoming even those goals is not to be taken lightly, but I feel my answer to these questions is more full-throated, not presented as an opposition, but an alternative to what our society is facing.

I want to fire that starting gun into the unpredictable skies of June because to not try is to lose already, and to cross the start line is to win. We’ll keep the “it’s a boat race” charade for the tourists, but this is a race of one racer at a time taking this moment to say, “I’m better than I was five minutes ago, and I just need to make it another five minutes.” Half-million-dollar boats jockey at the starting line with dories dragged from under grandparents’ lake house porches. And. We. Don’t. Care. This is a race of celebration, where I get to be part of a team without having to sit in their cockpit and eat their food. I get to cry at the triumph and tragedy of people I hardly know. Why would I? Because WE are racing to Alaska. And that ‘we’ is unity, across borders, fiber optics, and satellites. That we is us, and I yearn to stand shoulder to shoulder with champions of human nature; with people courageous and passionate and loving and present.  Feet firmly on the earth, eyes looking forward. Arms interlocked—and yes, that can be metaphoric—because when we are on the water together, we represent one thing: the desire for all of us to be better than we were five minutes ago.

In a time when it feels like we, as a civilization, are going nowhere, I want that start gun to remind us that we can be stronger together, in every sense. And even if I have to high five you standing six feet apart, it will thunder with love and admiration, and never with fear. We are all far too beautiful of creatures to expect otherwise. Come race day, it may look like a different day than what we have experienced in the five years of running these races. However, these races are steeped in the traditions of audacity, why would we expect anything else? I’ll see you in June. 

More sincerely than usual, 
Daniel Evans, Race Boss

P.S. In case schools are still in lockdown, yes, your kids can come race, but we’ll be vetting them too!
  • Like 4
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does BarfBag have so many down votes? IMHO His post above deserves a whole lot of up votes 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say YES! Seriously, this event is a perfect venue to prove that the best in us will perservere.  The logistics may prove difficult but individuals and small groups boating through mostly wilderness should be encouraged.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sure hope things settle down in time to run the race but the Canada/US border is closed so at this point it's really not up to the organizers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, unShirley said:

Why does BarfBag have so many down votes? IMHO His post above deserves a whole lot of up votes 

Because a couple of years ago I told a guy if he didn't like the rules for R2AK he could f-off.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck with immigration and quarantine for all the bell ringers.

I suspect you might want to temper your post with a "If they open the border by XXX date, then...."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What prevents a group of like minded people to start sailing at more or less the same time from the same location towards a common destination - Ketchikan. No registration - save money, no Spot that only works intermittently, no circus in Victoria ( also saves money), no bells to be rung, no $10,000 or Steak Knives, no encumbrances, no compulsory parties or skippers meetings, no photogs, just sailing and see who gets there first. Bella Bella is highly recommended from a safety perspective and so is Seymour. 

If you die it is your own stupidity and you will be awarded a special prize - the Darwin Award for stepping out of the gene pool.

Any takers?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer your question in the first sentence. How about an international border?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dsackman said:

What prevents a group of like minded people to start sailing at more or less the same time from the same location towards a common destination - Ketchikan. No registration - save money, no Spot that only works intermittently, no circus in Victoria ( also saves money), no bells to be rung, no $10,000 or Steak Knives, no encumbrances, no compulsory parties or skippers meetings, no photogs, just sailing and see who gets there first. Bella Bella is highly recommended from a safety perspective and so is Seymour. 

If you die it is your own stupidity and you will be awarded a special prize - the Darwin Award for stepping out of the gene pool.

Any takers?

 

Funny you said all that. I had been thinking along the same line, mostly because I can't afford the entry fee plus the Victoria dock and hotel fees plus shipping the outboard to Ketchikan and I really hate the tracker and I'm never gonna get the 10,000 or the steak knives. I never went to the compulsory parties, but one skipper's meeting with the coastguard fuck wagging his finger at me and telling me how much trouble I would be in if I sailed into his imaginary circle was enough. I love the Maritime Center and would like to support them, but maybe we can work something out.... If we can cross the border. Wayne is already on the right side of it, which I'm sure he's happy about.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russel You crotchety old bastard. I’ll just sit here with drink in hand and watch while you all organize this. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also thought of running the race unofficially and singlehandedwildthing1.jpg.b5713116008d26ed9ff5a8a1dfaa6857.jpg, i was planning on going offshore so if we had an inshore team then it would answer the question everyone was wondering,

so, if the border is open I am in.  r2akteamgoldenoldies

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

Funny you said all that. I had been thinking along the same line, mostly because I can't afford the entry fee plus the Victoria dock and hotel fees plus shipping the outboard to Ketchikan and I really hate the tracker and I'm never gonna get the 10,000 or the steak knives. I never went to the compulsory parties, but one skipper's meeting with the coastguard fuck wagging his finger at me and telling me how much trouble I would be in if I sailed into his imaginary circle was enough. I love the Maritime Center and would like to support them, but maybe we can work something out.... If we can cross the border. Wayne is already on the right side of it, which I'm sure he's happy about.

Russell, there's likely a bunch who'd like to join you on your endeavor.  The challenge is that few will be able to keep up with you.....  but that might be a plus, eh?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yip, we are talking crossing a border in the seas, but surely there is not a coastie standing at that line in the water to look at our papers? Immigration and customs is only called once you land your foot on terra firma.

I understand that we will sail in Canadian territorial waters, but does that mean we are crossing a border?  

... but then I am not a lawyer or immigration expert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, D Wayne G said:

Russel You crotchety old bastard. I’ll just sit here with drink in hand and watch while you all organize this. 

I wasn't planning to organize anything and you are the only one that could make me smile by calling me a crotchety old bastard!

I think the R2AK is definitely worth the entry fee and most people want to be part of an organized race. I was just agreeing with Dsackman a little too enthusiastically.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, dsackman said:

Yip, we are talking crossing a border in the seas, but surely there is not a coastie standing at that line in the water to look at our papers? Immigration and customs is only called once you land your foot on terra firma.

Or drop anchor, or come along side another vessel.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:
56 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

I wasn't planning to organize anything and you are the only one that could make me smile by calling me a crotchety old bastard!

I think the R2AK is definitely worth the entry fee and most people want to be part of an organized race. I was just agreeing with Dsackman a little too enthusiastically.

I wouldn’t have said it if I didn’t think you would take it as a joke. Interesting times Russel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BarfBag said:

Or drop anchor, or come along side another vessel.

Ah, makes sense. Touching soil with your anchor or touching a vessel carrying the foreign flag - that is that country's soul.

Interesting. Thanks! That deserves an up vote to help you reduce the down votes :) :) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, dsackman said:

Ah, makes sense. Touching soil with your anchor or touching a vessel carrying the foreign flag - that is that country's soul.

Interesting. Thanks! That deserves an up vote to help you reduce the down votes :) :) 

You are too kind.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a good point about having alternatives to  paying a large entry fee to participate in an event.  I want to build up experience,  my equipment and boat to be able to r2ak. The everglades challenge was a good start , but at 450 a pop,I'll need  cheaper training alternatives. 

I considered doing a pirate entry in a larger  boat race (start an hour late so as not to interfere with the competitors) but that's no way to make friends, especially if I'm looking for sponsorship opportunities. 

Is anyone in Ontario interested in an informal small boat challenge? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites