R2AK 2020

[rhpaw 14]

Just announced,

June 8th

They took Seymour Narrows off the course. Pick your side of Vancouver Island.

Also race 4 races, get your 5th for free.

[j 4 4]

Thanks for the news!

[Norse Horse 611]

Uphill and outside? This sounds like Roger Mann stuff.

Imagine if the Van Isle 360 was run clockwise...

 

[Rain Man 888]

If a big low shows up at the start, the outside might pay off.  Otherwise it would only work if your boat could sail effectively upwind in waves and lots of breeze.  There aren't many that can do that.

[Zonker 2,668]

Wow, interesting choice. I agree sailing the direct offshore route would only work with a big SE blow - and have it last long enough that when it blows through you're not sitting in big swells waiting for the NW wind to fill in.

[Tempest 46]

I'm toying with the idea of entering next year.  How zesty is this race?  I'm guessing I would just being doing it for fun/experience as I highly doubt I can be competitive.  I also don't have life lines on my boat and I imagine I would need to install some....  What are the chances of needing a sea anchor for the open stretches or can you safely wait out the weather?  Maybe I would be biting off more than I can chew.

[Quilbilly 97]

10 hours ago, Tempest said:

I'm toying with the idea of entering next year.  How zesty is this race?  I'm guessing I would just being doing it for fun/experience as I highly doubt I can be competitive.  I also don't have life lines on my boat and I imagine I would need to install some....  What are the chances of needing a sea anchor for the open stretches or can you safely wait out the weather?  Maybe I would be biting off more than I can chew.

What boat do you have?  As you well know that isn't the determining factor whether people make it, but it might be the determining factor in whether you make it. We did the race this year in my boat. It's 27 feet, we don't  have lifelines but we were snapped at all times with jacklines going forward. ( I'm not getting into whether tethers are killers, I'd rather they find my body if I go overboard, cause your won't last long out there on your own). We traveled in style, we had bunks, a stove, a heater and we slept some almost every night. As far as zesty, it was that and we had no hope of being competitive other than with ourselves. We made it twelve days. In hindsight I would carry a sea anchor. I had always heard of the dangers of a lee shore but until traveling without a backup power, our pedal drive barely counts, one doesn't really appreciate the dangers of being blown onto the beach. Crossing Dixon Entrance we were only a mile and half off shore in a strong westerly and the thought crosses my mind that if anything broke we would be in a world of hurt. A sea actor would have helped some. I'd encourage anyone to do the race who is prepared. You don't have to be a young stud to make it. 

Todd

[Floating Duck 115]

20 minutes ago, Quilbilly said:

Todd

Beautiful photo Todd. In true R2AK fashion... Upside down. 

[Tempest 46]

7 hours ago, Quilbilly said:

What boat do you have?  As you well know that isn't the determining factor whether people make it, but it might be the determining factor in whether you make it. We did the race this year in my boat. It's 27 feet, we don't  have lifelines but we were snapped at all times with jacklines going forward. ( I'm not getting into whether tethers are killers, I'd rather they find my body if I go overboard, cause your won't last long out there on your own). We traveled in style, we had bunks, a stove, a heater and we slept some almost every night. As far as zesty, it was that and we had no hope of being competitive other than with ourselves. We made it twelve days. In hindsight I would carry a sea anchor. I had always heard of the dangers of a lee shore but until traveling without a backup power, our pedal drive barely counts, one doesn't really appreciate the dangers of being blown onto the beach. Crossing Dixon Entrance we were only a mile and half off shore in a strong westerly and the thought crosses my mind that if anything broke we would be in a world of hurt. A sea actor would have helped some. I'd encourage anyone to do the race who is prepared. You don't have to be a young stud to make it. 

Todd

I've got an Ericson 23.  I would have to figure out what to do for power and I'm guessing oars is probably the best option.  I was fully intending on jack lines, that isn't even an option.  I'm thinking I should give it a try.  Worst case scenario, I drop out early.

[alctel 132]

It's Zesty, but it's not just in the big seas sense (though there are a few areas that would definately qualify)

It also can be damn cold, there is often shit everywhere in the water (inc huge logs), big currents and the wind switches often from millpond to howling with little in between.

The landscape and animals are spectacular however

[Quilbilly 97]

2 hours ago, Tempest said:

I've got an Ericson 23.  I would have to figure out what to do for power and I'm guessing oars is probably the best option.  I was fully intending on jack lines, that isn't even an option.  I'm thinking I should give it a try.  Worst case scenario, I drop out early.

I'd say go for it. Be prepared and make sure your boat is sound. Would you do it solo? We had a pedal drive and oars. The pedal drive would move us about 2 knots. The oars and pedal drive only got us 2 1/2 knots so we quit using the oars. I see your boat is probably pushing 4000 ponds loaded, you might consider a pedal drive. They are more complex but there  are a lot of different approaches out there. Good luck. 

[RandyM81 73]

3 hours ago, Tempest said:

I've got an Ericson 23.  I would have to figure out what to do for power and I'm guessing oars is probably the best option.  I was fully intending on jack lines, that isn't even an option.  I'm thinking I should give it a try.  Worst case scenario, I drop out early. 

Do it! You won't regret it. Just be prepared. 

[stumblingthunder 570]

On 9/7/2019 at 8:00 PM, dash34 said:

If a big low shows up at the start, the outside might pay off.  Otherwise it would only work if your boat could sail effectively upwind in waves and lots of breeze.  There aren't many that can do that.

Sounds like a job for an IOR lead mine!

- Stumbling

[Rain Man 888]

6 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

Sounds like a job for an IOR lead mine!

- Stumbling

There are a few around.  Amazing Grace is one of them.  Not sure how you would get her out of Victoria Harbour unless you had oars like a trireme.  

[stumblingthunder 570]

1 hour ago, dash34 said:

There are a few around.  Amazing Grace is one of them.  Not sure how you would get her out of Victoria Harbour unless you had oars like a trireme.  

All hands on the oars and the bowman on a kettle drum!

OK, harbor exit speed!!!

- Stumbling

[Tempest 46]

16 hours ago, alctel said:

It's Zesty, but it's not just in the big seas sense (though there are a few areas that would definately qualify)

It also can be damn cold, there is often shit everywhere in the water (inc huge logs), big currents and the wind switches often from millpond to howling with little in between. 

The landscape and animals are spectacular however

I have sailed all through desolation sound so I'm familiar with the weather, flotsam and currents.  My only real concern is the waves but that is probably my inexperience speaking.  Lee shores is also a concern considering the lack of power.

14 hours ago, Quilbilly said:

I'd say go for it. Be prepared and make sure your boat is sound. Would you do it solo? We had a pedal drive and oars. The pedal drive would move us about 2 knots. The oars and pedal drive only got us 2 1/2 knots so we quit using the oars. I see your boat is probably pushing 4000 ponds loaded, you might consider a pedal drive. They are more complex but there  are a lot of different approaches out there. Good luck. 

The boat is good but it'll mean spending some more money on it to really rig it properly and yes, I'm thinking I would do it solo.  4000lbs is probably a good estimate, if not 4500.  I think the rated displacement is 3600 but I bet it's sitting at 4000 right now without the extra gear and food etc.

Power is the big issue.  It doesn't have an inboard so there's no easy way to rig a pedal drive.  I'm thinking oars would be the easiest.  I was looking at the Hobie Mirage drive last night but I don't know how I would get it into my boat.

13 hours ago, RandyM81 said:

Do it! You won't regret it. Just be prepared. 

That's what I'm thinking.

[rhpaw 14]

FYI-- I  won't campaign a boat this year, but I'd maybe be open to crew for someone.

[Norse Horse 611]

Wonder if the change will attract an Open 60 or Mod 70 to bag the fastest time...

or maybe Webb Chiles needs a new challenge.

I can see some teams choosing the east side of Quadra over the lower Johnstone to make better time...

The new cruel alternate outside might be enough to attract previous racers like Colin Angus.

2020 will depend on if I get to crew to French Poly or not.

[Tempest 46]

23 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Wonder if the change will attract an Open 60 or Mod 70 to bag the fastest time...

or maybe Webb Chiles needs a new challenge. 

I can see some teams choosing the east side of Quadra over the lower Johnstone to make better time...

The new cruel alternate outside might be enough to attract previous racers like Colin Angus. 

2020 will depend on if I get to crew to French Poly or not.

Are you going to try solo again?

[Norse Horse 611]

3 hours ago, Tempest said:

Are you going to try solo again?

No decision yet, would consider a team effort or even crew on another boat. If the Pacific trip I said I would crew on overlaps the r2ak I will have to wait a year. I might even sell the big boat and get something more fun like an Olson 30, DIdi 26 or Seascape next year. I'd team up with you but can't commit to anything yet.

You would be fine sailing it solo if you decide to. Biggest question will be if you are willing to row or pedal it by yourself for extended periods or if it makes sense to have a team to share the workload and expenses, or to go non stop.

 

From the R2AK website; https://r2ak.com/onelessrule/

The new change also includes some rules, aka "The fine print".

"We like to say around here that simpler is harder, and we’ve made R2AK 2020 even more simple/hard than it already was by removing Seymour Narrows as a mandatory waypoint on the way to Ketchikan.

There’s still a qualifying stage from Port Townsend to Victoria, but when you leave from Victoria your next thing is to make it enginless to Bella Bella by any means necessary.

You can still go via Seymour Narrows, you just don’t have to. Consider it an open relationship.

Are you a tidal Jedi who’s found a current hack to shoot through some back channel like it was a log ride?
Have at it.Feel like bashing into the full force of the Pacific Ocean and clawing off 200 miles of a rocky lee shore?
Be our guest.Are you going to skip the complicated part and just portage your kayak the length of Vancouver Island before heading north?
You’ll find your reservation under ‘Crazy person, party of one.’

 

There is still one race, still one prize (plus steak knives), and we still finish in Ketchikan. Now you can get there by going outside, inside, or inside-er; just make sure to pass through Bella Bella at some point and you’re good.

The Fine Print

With open ocean wave trains that start building strength in Japan, a rocky coast, and absolutely no people or rescue personnel, the west coast of Vancouver Island is even less of a joke than the bear-infested cold waters of the Inside Passage. While we like audacity, we also consider ourselves Darwin’s bouncers and try not to encourage bad judgement. Teams wishing to have the option for an outside route will be vetted under an additional layer of scrutiny, and will need to comply with US Sailing’s crew and equipment requirements for a Category 1 offshore race (other than the having an engine part.)

In other words, a hard no for SUPs, Hobie Ocean Islands, and the rest of the rowboat navy.

If you are applying and want to be considered for an outside route, you’ll need to indicate that on your application.

The other thing is that now all teams, even the ones on the inside routes, are required to have a PLB or an EPIRB onboard. Because Canada said so."

Read to apply? Click here.

https://r2ak.com/onelessrule/

 

[Tempest 46]

10 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

No decision yet, would consider a team effort or even crew on another boat. If the Pacific trip I said I would crew on overlaps the r2ak I will have to wait a year. I might even sell the big boat and get something more fun like an Olson 30, DIdi 26 or Seascape next year. I'd team up with you but can't commit to anything yet.

You would be fine sailing it solo if you decide to. Biggest question will be if you are willing to row or pedal it by yourself for extended periods or if it makes sense to have a team to share the workload and expenses, or to go non stop.

 

Well keep me posted.

I'm really up in the air about taking my boat.  I'm realizing that the biggest problem is going to be powering it without the wind.  There it too much stuff in the way in my cockpit for oars and I have no idea how I would make a pedal contraption work.  It might be better suited to something with a wheel, more open cockpit or something that has had an engine ripped out.  I need to do more research and I might not be able to pull it all together by next spring considering that I will be in Mexico for 6 months.  I may be better off hitching on someone elses boat or going solo, not as a race participant with my engine as a backup.

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 860]

8 hours ago, Tempest said:

Well keep me posted.

I'm really up in the air about taking my boat.  I'm realizing that the biggest problem is going to be powering it without the wind.  There it too much stuff in the way in my cockpit for oars and I have no idea how I would make a pedal contraption work.  It might be better suited to something with a wheel, more open cockpit or something that has had an engine ripped out.  I need to do more research and I might not be able to pull it all together by next spring considering that I will be in Mexico for 6 months.  I may be better off hitching on someone elses boat or going solo, not as a race participant with my engine as a backup.

It’s a hard call - oars (long, light carbon fibre ones - donated) on our Cal 20 were fine for going up Victoria harbour, but longer distance than that...well...(did try them briefly mid-Juan de Fuca Strait, big ocean ship tonnage passing by, as we whistled nervously for wind...(we did later discuss pedal drives, probably relatively easy to implement in these boats’ cockpit outboard engine well...still, you’re dragging 900 lbs of keel through the water...)

And you gotta be willing to spend the money.  Lost work - easily 4 weeks with a small boat.  And the not-insignificant logistical (and financial) challenge of bringing the boat back.  All in, with a small, non-trailerable sailboat, multi-thousands of $ involved.  I’d like to kayak it (full race) or do it in a boat that’s easily transportable home.  (Had a 14 year old onboard —a good sailor— we did Stage 1 as a shakedown/first go, to see if we wanted to do the full race later...yes, but on a faster small boat!  Or solo row/kayak.)

[Ishmael 6,168]

Interesting change. I will be very curious to see who would choose the outside. Going upwind around Brooks Peninsula in a blow would get old pretty fast.

[Roleur 296]

Our boat would do well upwind on the outside, but...  What fun would it be?  Upwind, no scenery. Sounds like a boring way to spend a vacation. 

If it ended up being downwind, still very little scenery and our boat would be very ordinary. 

I don’t see this as a positive change to the race.

 

[Trevor B 73]

We have a good team, our funding is semi-organized, and have a great boat to charter, but we have NO interest in racing on the outside all the way to Bella Bella.

It’s much less of an adventure and much more of a very hardcore race. 

It really is a bummer that they’ve made this change, I was looking forward to trying to win this quirky thing.

[multihuler 199]

Outside is wonderful for those of us that have already done the inside, it also invites larger boats to the game, of course removing your engine will make people think twice

[D Wayne G 148]

7 hours ago, Trevor B said:

We have a good team, our funding is semi-organized, and have a great boat to charter, but we have NO interest in racing on the outside all the way to Bella Bella.

It’s much less of an adventure and much more of a very hardcore race. 

It really is a bummer that they’ve made this change, I was looking forward to trying to win this quirky thing.

“was”? So are you saying because of this rule you are no longer interested? 

[Trevor B 73]

2 hours ago, D Wayne G said:

“was”? So are you saying because of this rule you are no longer interested? 

We put it on hold Thursday evening because of the rule change.

[Russell Brown 754]

3 hours ago, D Wayne G said:

“was”? So are you saying because of this rule you are no longer interested? 

With all the extra distance and still having to pass through Bella Bella it doesn't seem like it would be an advantage. What do you think Wayne? You of anyone would have an educated opinion.

[Veeger 339]

Potentially going outside when the Inland route is windless and forecast to remain so gives the bigger, more difficult to row/peddle/paddle boats a bit of boost.  However, if it attracts something like an Open 60 or some large, fully crewed, outright racer, then the R2AK will have lost its allure.  It was/is the tenuous balance of human propulsion and wind that makes it so interesting.

[unShirley 115]

12 hours ago, multihuler said:

Outside is wonderful for those of us that have already done the inside, it also invites larger boats to the game, of course removing your engine will make people think twice

Which boat is that?  Is it a Newick Spark?

 

 

"Are you going to skip the complicated part and just portage your kayak the length of Vancouver Island before heading north?"

Do the rules prohibit somebody from towing a small boat behind a bike (maybe a tandem bike) the length of Vancouver Island and ditching the bike for the rest of the race?  In theory, a couple of tri-athletes could possibly get a nice early lead that way.

[ProaSailor 410]

2 hours ago, unShirley said:

Which boat is that?  Is it a Newick Spark?

Newick Lucky Strike 50' racing trimaran: http://dicknewickboats.com/lucky_strike/

Quote

This Solo Racer was designed for Fred Ball by Dick Newick in 1985. Her hulls were built by Alain Guidon and finished in Glen Arbor Michigan. She was launched in Good Harbor Bay on Lake Michigan in June of 1987. Her Gougeon Brothers designed wing mast, windshield, deck hardware and systems where completed by VanDam Woodcraft in Harbor Springs Michigan.

• LEST WE FORGET: 'LUCKY STRIKE' & THE CARIBBEAN 1500 Colligo Marine, Nov 2014
• 1987 Custom Newick 50 trimaran yachtworld.com
• LUCKY STRIKE, NEWICK TRIMARAN Gold Coast Yachts, Brokerage

[Keith 893]

Shes a beauty..../\ /\ /\ 

[unShirley 115]

Ah.... so, almost 2x the length of a Spark

[Amati 1,423]

I must Admit, I agree with Trevor.  I had hoped that there would have been more inland gates with time limits, kind of a cross between the paddle event in Puget Sound and the race across the Sound to Victoria, with times being added up for the finish, as well as some sort of recognition for leg finishes.   More like a raid, I guess.

Seemed it would deal with the isolation of racers, bad weather, incompetent racers, media coverage, and maybe some insurance concerns.  

[Sidecar 902]

4 hours ago, unShirley said:

"Are you going to skip the complicated part and just portage your kayak the length of Vancouver Island before heading north?"

Do the rules prohibit somebody from towing a small boat behind a bike (maybe a tandem bike) the length of Vancouver Island and ditching the bike for the rest of the race?  In theory, a couple of tri-athletes could possibly get a nice early lead that way.

^^^^This.

As a great fan of the race and its ethos from the start, (and still vaguely on my to do bucket list), I can’t help feeling that allowing the choice of going outside or the possibility of “portage” the length of V I has somehow diminished the race.

A more interesting proposition to me would have been omitting Seymour Narrows way point and requiring leaving something like Harwood or Hernando Island to port?

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 860]

Only half joking - how about picking up the spirit of the GGR and taking everyone’s GPS away, like motors are verboten.  Paper charts, hand bearing compasses.  Hell, use a sextant for all I care (for distance off calcs, etc), since they do look cool... :-)

[unShirley 115]

1 hour ago, Sidecar said:

^^^^This.

As a great fan of the race and its ethos from the start, (and still vaguely on my to do bucket list), I can’t help feeling that allowing the choice of going outside or the possibility of “portage” the length of V I has somehow diminished the race.

A more interesting proposition to me would have been omitting Seymour Narrows way point and requiring leaving something like Harwood or Hernando Island to port?

I like the idea of allowing outside or portage of Vancouver Island.  I think it adds interest.  More choices = more strategy = more drama.

new meaning to pedal power

[Keith 893]

I like it.... all of it...

[gspot 171]

So the fine print says "Teams wishing to have the option for an outside route will be vetted under an additional layer of scrutiny, and will need to comply with US Sailing’s crew and equipment requirements for a Category 1 offshore race (other than the having an engine part.)"

I clarified with Kate R2AK headquarters that this corresponds to the Ocean Category in these Safety Equipment Requirements which includes items such as:

• Storm jib
• Trysail
• AIS
• EPIRB
• Liferaft
• Safety at sea training
• Method of steering with rudder disabled
• Method of receiving weather information in addition to the fixed mount and hand held VHF
• Plus many more...

It can take a bit of time and money to pull these things together so better start now!

[Varan 1,934]

21 minutes ago, gspot said:

So the fine print says "Teams wishing to have the option for an outside route will be vetted under an additional layer of scrutiny, and will need to comply with US Sailing’s crew and equipment requirements for a Category 1 offshore race (other than the having an engine part.)"

I clarified with Kate R2AK headquarters that this corresponds to the Ocean Category in these Safety Equipment Requirements which includes items such as:

• Storm jib
• Trysail
• AIS
• EPIRB
• Liferaft
• Safety at sea training
• Method of steering with rudder disabled
• Method of receiving weather information in addition to the fixed mount and hand held VHF
• Plus many more...

It can take a bit of time and money to pull these things together so better start now!

Isn't that like saying "just kidding"?

 

Seriously,  take this race seriously.  It is all good.

[Tunnel Rat 1,122]

41 minutes ago, gspot said:

So the fine print says "Teams wishing to have the option for an outside route will be vetted under an additional layer of scrutiny, and will need to comply with US Sailing’s crew and equipment requirements for a Category 1 offshore race (other than the having an engine part.)"

I clarified with Kate R2AK headquarters that this corresponds to the Ocean Category in these Safety Equipment Requirements which includes items such as:

• Storm jib
• Trysail
• AIS
• EPIRB
• Liferaft
• Safety at sea training
• Method of steering with rudder disabled
• Method of receiving weather information in addition to the fixed mount and hand held VHF
• Plus many more...

It can take a bit of time and money to pull these things together so better start now!

Plus, the weight of all the Cat 1 equipment that is required for going round the outside will make human powered that much more difficult, added to left over waves and chop and human powering on the outside does not look like a fun option.

[Veeger 339]

10 hours ago, Tunnel Rat said:

Plus, the weight of all the Cat 1 equipment that is required for going round the outside will make human powered that much more difficult, added to left over waves and chop and human powering on the outside does not look like a fun option.

I would be VERY surprised, (shocked I tell ya) if anyone did the outside route with human power...  (but, I've been surprised a few times in my life I suppose)

[IStream 2,318]

There's always someone crazy enough.

[Norse Horse 611]

It says no SUP's, Hobie AI or rowboats outside, so likely anything sturdier than that may be vetted.

Bring on your Moore 24's, your Cal 20's, Arlberg 23's and Monty's...

Note that there are 2 passages to the Bella Bella waypoint coming from outside, Hakai Passage and the "Purple Bluff", in the Mc Naughton Group, a sure place of carnage at night or in fog, for an Open 60 or anything with 9ft of draft. Just a purple haze of rocks, that the previous teams have had to navigate, some at night. Pushy with swell or with a SW wind and a lee shore. Not a place to find out your gps is off 30ft again and the depth sounder is kaput.

http://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@9&key=qvb|HrjvmW

 

[rhpaw 14]

Race committee will be strict on who can go outside.

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 860]

1 hour ago, IStream said:

There's always someone crazy enough.

Huge respect to Fedor Konyukhov.

https://konyukhov.ru/en/fedor-konyukhov-wrote-a-new-page-in-the-history-of-ocean-rowing/

[gspot 171]

12 hours ago, Tunnel Rat said:

Plus, the weight of all the Cat 1 equipment that is required for going round the outside will make human powered that much more difficult, added to left over waves and chop and human powering on the outside does not look like a fun option.

I added most of this stuff to my leadmine for a VanIsle360 a few years back and it added at least a couple hundred pounds in weight plus nearly 10K to the race budget.

With that I certainly wouldn't want to rely on human power except to get in and out of Victoria Harbour.

[Raven NW 10]

Am considering the race with a GP 26, empty weight 2475 lbs, boat has an outboard motor mount that I am thinking could work for a pedal drive, can anyone comment on systems that are out there? sea cycle or hobie mirage or ...  Thanks

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 860]

4 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

It says no SUP's, Hobie AI or rowboats outside, so likely anything sturdier than that may be vetted.

Bring on your Moore 24's, your Cal 20's, Arlberg 23's and Monty's...

Note that there are 2 passages to the Bella Bella waypoint coming from outside, Hakai Passage and the "Purple Bluff", in the Mc Naughton Group, a sure place of carnage at night or in fog, for an Open 60 or anything with 9ft of draft. Just a purple haze of rocks, that the previous teams have had to navigate, some at night. Pushy with swell or with a SW wind and a lee shore. Not a place to find out your gps is off 30ft again and the depth sounder is kaput.

http://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@9&key=qvb|HrjvmW

 

Ah, now I get the purple haze reference!  

Good grief - engineless, at night, with onshore breeze.

[Norse Horse 611]

43 minutes ago, Raven NW said:

Am considering the race with a GP 26, empty weight 2475 lbs, boat has an outboard motor mount that I am thinking could work for a pedal drive, can anyone comment on systems that are out there? sea cycle or hobie mirage or ...  Thanks

Or, or a paddlewheel!

Lot's of setups, someone could write a book of 5 years of r2ak pedal drives. Past r2ak threads all have discussion or start here.

http://gougeon32.blogspot.com/2018/08/pedal-drives-on-2018-r2ak-boats.html

[Left Shift 2,756]

5 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

It says no SUP's, Hobie AI or rowboats outside, so likely anything sturdier than that may be vetted.

Bring on your Moore 24's, your Cal 20's, Arlberg 23's and Monty's...

Note that there are 2 passages to the Bella Bella waypoint coming from outside, Hakai Passage and the "Purple Bluff", in the Mc Naughton Group, a sure place of carnage at night or in fog, for an Open 60 or anything with 9ft of draft. Just a purple haze of rocks, that the previous teams have had to navigate, some at night. Pushy with swell or with a SW wind and a lee shore. Not a place to find out your gps is off 30ft again and the depth sounder is kaputhttp://webapp.navionics.com/#boating@9&key=qvb|HrjvmW

Having done the outside coast about 10 times I can say:

Doing the outside engineless seems a bit unhinged. 

The Cat. 1 safety stuff is important and expensive and heavy

There is a reason the Van Isle goes down the coast given the prevailing currents

A good ocean kayak is possibly a better, safer option than a small sailboat. 

When it goes windless out there, it can get VERY calm and still be very lumpy and unpleasant and last a long time

When it goes windy out there, it can get VERY windy and very lumpy and unpleasant and last a long time

There are long stretches where there are no good duck-ins

There is a good bit of commercial traffic that goes up the coast right where you want to be.  Not too far offshore, but far enough.  

Brooks Peninsula can absolutely suck

And it's colder and way less pretty.

My 2 cents.

 

All that said, if you just want to win, the Newick tri posted above, with a pedal drive, would be a pretty good option for the outside.  Or the Fox 44.  

 

[Tunnel Rat 1,122]

10 hours ago, Veeger said:

I would be VERY surprised, (shocked I tell ya) if anyone did the outside route with human power...  (but, I've been surprised a few times in my life I suppose)

Sorry, I worded my post badly.  I meant that a boat where sailing is the main option would struggle with human power when the wind disappeared, and based on Leftie's post above, that is a strong possibility.

That being said, any bets that the Shut Up And Drive comes back for another attempt up the outside?  Would that be better than a tri upwind?

[Blizzard 9]

On 9/15/2019 at 4:04 PM, ProaSailor said:

Newick Lucky Strike 50' racing trimaran: http://dicknewickboats.com/lucky_strike/

• LEST WE FORGET: 'LUCKY STRIKE' & THE CARIBBEAN 1500 Colligo Marine, Nov 2014
• 1987 Custom Newick 50 trimaran yachtworld.com
• LUCKY STRIKE, NEWICK TRIMARAN Gold Coast Yachts, Brokerage

 

 

I grew up within walking distance of Good Harbor Bay. There is no launch ramp, just a couple of roads that end where the sand starts. This thing would have to have been assembled on the beach, and shoved off by hand. 

R2AK is definitely on my bucket list. If anyone ends up entering this boat in R2AK and wants a Good Harbor kid for crew, look me up.

Oh, and the boat I race on is behind Lucky Strike in this pic, on the corner of the pier in front of CYC.

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 860]

On 9/16/2019 at 1:47 PM, Left Shift said:

The Cat. 1 safety stuff is important and expensive and heavy

All that said, if you just want to win, the Newick tri posted above, with a pedal drive, would be a pretty good option for the outside.  Or the Fox 44.  

Re: outside route, is it realistic to expect that a boat big enough to have an in-board would spend the not-insignificant time and money to meet Cat 1, and also remove the engine (and store it and then reinstall after) just for one race?  Seems totally crazy to me, but that’s me!

I wonder if the organizers will accept for that route a “proven” boat (example: Olson 30, Santa Cruz 27) that has an easily removed outboard?

Going to be interesting to see how that goes and what the competition is.

 

Cat 1 here: https://www.sailing.org/specialregs

[gspot 171]

3 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Cat 1 here: https://www.sailing.org/specialregs

Note that there are different specifications for "Category 1" races - you've cited the World Sailing Offshore Special Regulations but there are also the US Sailing Special Regulations which are similar but different. For example World Sailing Category 1 requires two anchors while US Sailing Ocean only requires 1 anchor.

When I emailed Kate at R2AK headquarters she said it was the US Sailing Ocean requirements, but since they are new to this it might be good to verify.

I bet somebody at the Coast Guard told them boats on the outside need to meet Category 1 requirements before they would approve this race, so it could be that it doesn't really matter as both requirements demonstrate a good deal of preparedness and due diligence. 

[Norse Horse 611]

Yes, simpler but harder...not clear if Canada is expecting each crew member to have a PLB.

edit' the Spot tracker performance sucked CCG must have noticed too....so will the PLB,s be race junkie  trackable?

The copy from r2ak says "a plb" which might be misleading for teams to budget. It may be clear in the newest race instructions when they are posted.

 

[gspot 171]

3 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Re: outside route, is it realistic to expect that a boat big enough to have an in-board would spend the not-insignificant time and money to meet Cat 1, and also remove the engine (and store it and then reinstall after) just for one race?  Seems totally crazy to me, but that’s me!

My leadmine has been described as a "freight train" going to weather in a breeze. It is also very close to meeting the current Cat 1 requirements from a VanIsle360 a few years back, so I've already incurred most of the expense. And I could use a block and tackle on my boom to hoist the engine out of the companionway and onto the dock, so it's not terribly far-fetched for those whose boats are already reasonably well-equipped.  

But plausible still doesn't mean it's not crazy...and you definitely want to be clear on the requirements because it would be horrible to be disqualified for missing something because you followed the wrong requirements.

[gspot 171]

7 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Yes, simpler but harder...not clear if Canada is expecting each crew member to have a PLB.

edit' the Spot tracker performance sucked CCG must have noticed too....so will the PLB,s be race junkie  trackable?

The copy from r2ak says "a plb" which might be misleading for teams to budget. It may be clear in the newest race instructions when they are posted.

This is another difference - the World Sailing Offshore Special Regulations required each crew member to have a personal AIS beacon, whereby the US Sailing Special Regulations don't. Neither require each crew member to have a PLB, but the boat needs to have a 406MHz EPIRB under both requirements.

The R2AK website says "The other thing is that now all teams, even the ones on the inside routes, are required to have a PLB or an EPIRB onboard. Because Canada said so."

I would interpret this to be one per boat, in case the SPOT packs it in. This is consistent with the above.

PLBs and EPIRBs generally only transmit when somebody on board pushes a button in the event of an emergency, or they are water activated, again in the case of an emergency. Some have a test function, but again that needs to be activated by somebody on-board. So no, I don't believe these will improve race junkie trackability.

 

[Norse Horse 611]

Some mixed comments on social media re Outside. "Go Gaff or go home" Race To Alaska by Northwest Maritime Center - Posts | Facebook

A new arms race? Beyond fuel cells, war machines, pro crews, foilers, seventy foot upwind machines, teams bowing out if the weather window doesn't suit a shot at the record. Will these times overlay previous wins or have a footnote. An Un-evil 5 year plan to split it into 2 races?

Why limit the outside, rowboats, kayaks, SUP's and TI type craft have been out here already, heck a 17 year old has circumnavigated. Somewhat safer when you can beach your craft. This would attract the ocean rowers, Karl Kruger, Mathieu Bonnier...certainly up the tracker junkie meter.

https://www.explore-mag.com/An-Epic-Stand-Up-Paddleboard-Journey-on-BCs-West-Coast

https://mountainculturegroup.com/youngest-solo-paddle-around-vancouver-island/

https://www.adventuresportsnetwork.com/sport/paddle-sports/canoe-kayak/race-vancouver-island-record/

https://www.westernliving.ca/What-Its-Like-to-Paddleboard-from-Washington-to-Tofino

Certainly some leadminers will try the outside just as a test of mettle. Can an ODay 27 survive it? The history of the shipping and shipwrecks and the lifesaving trail is a compelling backstory to the race.

Who will portage Vancouver Island someone asked? 1st suspect would have to be this guy here.

https://r2ak.com/2018-teams-full-race/team-take-me-to-the-volcano-3/

Or this guy.

https://r2ak.com/2018-teams-full-race/team-trak-kayaks/

 

Not sure anyone will try the most eastern inside passage via Yaculta, except for being the first team to transit it in the full race. I looked for an aerial photo of when it is on full boil..remembered a nasty one but no luck finding it.

Okisollo Passage, Octopus Islands and Surge Narrows is a very nice passage. Some surfing, too, but not like Skook. When the Johnstone Strait is eating Arlberg 23's for breakfast, you can get a better flush north. Attn, Mr Prius, you could portage west on Quadra Island north...

 

Note that Quadra Island is protected from the Zombie Apocalypse by the strong tides on all sides, much too strong for zombies to walk the bottom and too far to reach at slack. So secret it never made the top ten list. Good to know if you are out racing r2ak and world affairs go Pear Shaped. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/guide-to-wait-out-the-zombie-apocalypse

 

[Quilbilly 97]

These gearboxes are on Ebay. I bought one for a  pedal drive for a daysailer I am building. They are a very nice unit. The input shafts are already tapered and tapped for standard bicycle cranks. The output shaft is 1/2' and it comes with the flex shaft shown. I am not using the shaft but am going to modify the coupling to fit a sprocket instead. I think the fellow selling them bought them surplus or something, as he relisted the ad right after he shipped mine. Apparently he takes offers but I just paid full price as that Mitrpak gearbox is about $300 with standard shafts. I have nothing to do with selling these just thought I'd pass it on for those of you pondering how to build a pedal drive. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MITRPAK-T10-3-way-Gearbox-for-human-powered-vehicle/223670383910?hash=item3413cb3526:g:1GsAAOSw-FRb7GGb

[BarfBag 103]

That's a 1:2 ratio.

The 1:1's are much more robust taking greater torque which is what usually breaks the Mitrpaks.

[gspot 171]

On 9/15/2019 at 8:11 PM, gspot said:

So the fine print says "Teams wishing to have the option for an outside route will be vetted under an additional layer of scrutiny, and will need to comply with US Sailing’s crew and equipment requirements for a Category 1 offshore race (other than the having an engine part.)"

I clarified with Kate R2AK headquarters that this corresponds to the Ocean Category in these Safety Equipment Requirements which includes items such as:

• Storm jib
• Trysail
• AIS
• EPIRB
• Liferaft
• Safety at sea training
• Method of steering with rudder disabled
• Method of receiving weather information in addition to the fixed mount and hand held VHF
• Plus many more...

It can take a bit of time and money to pull these things together so better start now!

So it appears from the R2AK application page that they have now changed to the World Sailing Offshore Regulations for the outside route.

[Skid51 20]

Curious about some of the logistics approaches and learnings from this race.  

How do you provision (including all water) for 4 crew on a J24 or a Melges 24 for a week +?    Or do go-small entries like that plan definite re-provisioning stops?   

How do you set up inside the tiny cabin on boat like that for enroute sleeping (hang hammocks?) cooking (hang a burner, or cook on deck?).  Again, do folks plan stops to anchor in shelter, even camp out? 

Seems some of the pedal drive systems, as cool as they are, require some serious through-bolts or cutaways in the deck, cockpit floor or transom and as such presumably need patchwork and leave attendant scars once removed.  Any pedal systems “clamp-on”?   Would say a First/Seascape 27 style cockpit outboard well be easily adaptable?  

[Alex W 242]

16 hours ago, Skid51 said:

How do you provision (including all water) for 4 crew on a J24 or a Melges 24 for a week +?

Think about it as camping.  You don't need that much water, 5 liters per day per person is plenty, and 10 liters per person per day is luxurious.  This isn't like cross-ocean racing where you need a safety amount, since you'll probably never be >12 hours from being able to dock or anchor somewhere and get more water.

Melges 24 and J/24 both have flat areas where two crew can sleep.

There was a Melges 24 last year with a cool pedal drive that seemed to be all clamp on:

 

 

[Rain Man 888]

On 9/16/2019 at 1:12 PM, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Ah, now I get the purple haze reference!  

Good grief - engineless, at night, with onshore breeze.

Even worse, using POS Navionics software for navigation.  

[stumblingthunder 570]

22 hours ago, Alex W said:

Think about it as camping.  You don't need that much water, 5 liters per day per person is plenty, and 10 liters per person per day is luxurious.  This isn't like cross-ocean racing where you need a safety amount, since you'll probably never be >12 hours from being able to dock or anchor somewhere and get more water.

Melges 24 and J/24 both have flat areas where two crew can sleep.

There was a Melges 24 last year with a cool pedal drive that seemed to be all clamp on:

 

 

There are bound to be streams and springs on some of the islands, if water is needed between inhabited stops.

- Stumbling

[Skid51 20]

59 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

There are bound to be streams and springs on some of the islands, if water is needed between inhabited stops.

- Stumbling

Ha ha..  The start of a great story.  Just remember Chef going to look for mangos.   In the Great Bear Rainforest just substitute BF bear in...   “Fucking tiger!...  I didn’t get outta the goddam eight grade for this kinda shit!!..”

Melges pedal set-up is pretty non-intrusive.  Not sure if there’s any surgery needed for the driveshafts out of sight under the cockpit floor.  Seems the only cutting is the two holes in the transom which could presumeably just be dealt with later by putting in inspection covers.  But would be tough to transfer that approach to any boat that didnt have the handy pre-existing floor hatch.

[stumblingthunder 570]

If I ever do the R2AK, I'll remember:

"Whatever you do, don't get out of the F-ing boat!!!!"

- Stumbling

[Norse Horse 611]

Re outside VI requirements

I see there are some 2 day SAS course spots available late nov in Van. https://www.vicmaui.org/sas-2day

https://www.sailing.ca/courses-p199489

 

This article explains a bit how RC's alter the regs to suit the race, ie no motors. Strange to find on a westmarine site but there you go. DIY guide, it is titled...

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/DIY-Preparing-For-An-Offshore-Race

 

The regs have a formula for auxiliary propulsion, you can see it in the screen grab below. I wonder if the r2ak will use that to measure the pedal drives power for teams going west of VI?

Water requirements as well for MoMu1...https://www.sailing.org/specialregs

[40Plus 36]

Initially I thought that eliminating the waypoint in Seymour Narrows was a good idea for the reasons already mentioned in this thread. However, the requirements that are now mandated if you want to go on the outside eliminates many possible entries that would want to chose the outside option if the conditions made sense. I think they really messed up with this change if for no other reason it has taken away the simplicity of the R2AK. 

[alctel 132]

On 10/8/2019 at 4:00 PM, Skid51 said:

Curious about some of the logistics approaches and learnings from this race.  

How do you provision (including all water) for 4 crew on a J24 or a Melges 24 for a week +?    Or do go-small entries like that plan definite re-provisioning stops?   

How do you set up inside the tiny cabin on boat like that for enroute sleeping (hang hammocks?) cooking (hang a burner, or cook on deck?).  Again, do folks plan stops to anchor in shelter, even camp out? 

Seems some of the pedal drive systems, as cool as they are, require some serious through-bolts or cutaways in the deck, cockpit floor or transom and as such presumably need patchwork and leave attendant scars once removed.  Any pedal systems “clamp-on”?   Would say a First/Seascape 27 style cockpit outboard well be easily adaptable?  

My friend who double-handed a beach cat the first year (and managed to finish) got sponsorship from a powdered food company and basically just ate that the whole time, except for one night when they were huddled on a beach on quadra after a gale and someone found them and brought them a hot meal

[Skid51 20]

10 hours ago, alctel said:

My friend who double-handed a beach cat the first year (and managed to finish) got sponsorship from a powdered food company and basically just ate that the whole time, except for one night when they were huddled on a beach on quadra after a gale and someone found them and brought them a hot meal

I think remember following that team’s story.  Didn’t they cross Hecate in pretty adventurous conditions?    Camping on random docks?  Hard ass.  

[Norse Horse 611]

News, rumour and innuendo...

1st solo last year, Shaun Dunand, on the 24ft cat. Alex de Saint to be back on an airboard. https://boatingfreedom.com/alaska-calling/

Kruger to try NWP 2020 after issues in 2019. https://furthermore.equinox.com/articles/2019/08/karl-kruger-stand-up-paddleboarding-expedition

 

 

Team Buckeye for 2020? https://ar-ar.facebook.com/pg/R2AKTeamBuckeye/posts/

 

The racer deal at Fisheries Supply, don't tell your boatyard...https://www.fisheriessupply.com/r2aktn

 

 

“There’s a feeling that comes from conquering the adversity, getting to the end,” explains three-time R2AK veteran Drew Smith. “This isn’t a race against other people. It’s against whether or not you’re going to give up.” 

Wild Ride, the story. https://hanahou.com/22.5/wild-ride

 

Team Just to Sea in 2020? https://www.facebook.com/donanddebr2ak2020/

 

Team Auklet, wait and see? https://sailingauklet.com/2019/01/26/race-to-alaska/

 

Rumours of an F27?

 

What people will look like after the zombie apocalypse. https://www.instahu.net/p/2151066494435616664_21527923594

 

Blast from the past. https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/whistler/sailing-straits-to-alaska/Content?oid=3578285

 

There has been no end of verminators in the r2ak, soggy beavers, angry beavers, dock rats and now possibly canal rats...

https://deskgram.cc/p/2152022823422349490_18075714038

 

What iszit?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alctel 132]

1 hour ago, Skid51 said:

I think remember following that team’s story.  Didn’t they cross Hecate in pretty adventurous conditions?    Camping on random docks?  Hard ass.  

I don't really recall what their hecate crossing was like, but they got washed onto a beach on quadra island and had to camp there for 2 or 3 nights (30+ knot winds)  in a yurt they made out of driftwood

[rhpaw 14]

On 10/12/2019 at 9:08 AM, alctel said:

I don't really recall what their hecate crossing was like, but they got washed onto a beach on quadra island and had to camp there for 2 or 3 nights (30+ knot winds)  in a yurt they made out of driftwood

She did a Ted Talk about it later.

 

[Rasputin22 2,670]

On 10/10/2019 at 10:26 AM, stumblingthunder said:

If I ever do the R2AK, I'll remember:

"Whatever you do, don't get out of the F-ing boat!!!!"

- Stumbling

 

[stumblingthunder 570]

51 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

 

There are some, who have accused me of "going all the way"....   Only time and history will be able to determine it.

- Stumbling

[Rasputin22 2,670]

Like the man said,

 

[Norse Horse 611]

The first team is listed and it's not Roger Mann.

The boat looks like a cruel pain machine to row, but otherwise the glory of the first Macgregor to complete an r2ak is yours to win.. May your winds be fair.

https://r2ak.com/2020-teams-full-race/team-just-to-sea/

 

Blast from the Past

" Haley can fill in any gaps with her own stories. At one point in the Race to Alaska, she says, “While flying the asymmetrical spinnaker, we hit a giant log that felt like a car crash when it struck our bow and rolled at an angle under the fragile hull all the way to the keel, where it stopped, projecting out from the transom several feet. It was 2AM in a narrow dark channel without cell coverage, and a barge was approaching from behind that wasn’t replying to our calls on the VHF...."

“We already had some water in the cabin (as we always did from rain and waves), so we pumped it out to make sure new water wasn’t leaking in. Luckily, we were able to roll the boat off the log with the spinnaker still up, and we notified the Prince Rupert Coast Guard who was able to contact the barge. We took all the headsails down and sailed cautiously under main alone until morning to make sure the boat was OK. "

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2019/10/28/sail-like-this-girl/

 

Man uses knife to fend off bear attack in remote B.C. backcountry | CBC News

Some inspiration reading. THE REAL SEA WOLF | Maclean's | JANUARY 1, 1922

Dory porn. “We already had some water in the cabin (as we always did from rain and waves), so we pumped it out to make sure new water wasn’t leaking in. Luckily, we were able to roll the boat off the log with the spinnaker still up, and we notified the Prince Rupert Coast Guard who was able to contact the barge. We took all the headsails down and sailed cautiously under main alone until morning to make sure the boat was OK.

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 860]

On 10/10/2019 at 12:04 AM, Hole In The Kite said:

Even worse, using POS Navionics software for navigation.  

Dear Kite Hole - Geez, I’m really sorry the backup copy of Navionics on my phone that I just happened to have with me didn’t suit you.  Next time bring your non-piece of shit navigation software and we’ll all applaud you. :-)

[Norse Horse 611]

More team rumours to post and a full length video from Natalie Criou Racing, Nat and the 7 Dudes.

 

Hobie 33 https://www.facebook.com/R2AKTeamBuckeye/posts/r2ak-2020-here-we-come-the-deal-on-team-buckeyes-new-ride-is-complete-and-the-bo/257349081583811/

Bristol 24 https://deskgram.cc/p/2156353473817671582_5771874668

Capri 25 https://deskgram.cc/p/2157067005685195825_369608831

Above average axe throwers? https://deskgram.cc/explore/tags/teamrumham

North sea to the Black sea, sail and oar.http://dory-man.blogspot.com/search/label/north sea to black sea

 

Blast from the past.

[Raven NW 10]

Wraith, a Grand Prix 26 based in West Vancouver will be entering. Team of 4, Inside route for us.

https://www.facebook.com/GrandPrix26/

 

 

 

 

[Tunnel Rat 1,122]

6 hours ago, Raven NW said:

Wraith, a Grand Prix 26 based in West Vancouver will be entering. Team of 4, Inside route for us.

https://www.facebook.com/GrandPrix26/

 

Well done - I am not certain I could face 750Nm on a GP26 - I'm obviously too soft! 

What is your human powered solution?  Do you have an outboard well that you can use?

[Raven NW 10]

We did the Van Isle 360 in 2019 on the GP 26 so we have a reasonable understanding of what we are in for, and no desire to take the route off the west coast of Vancouver Island.

For the human powered solution we are going with the seacycle unit, hopefully mounted onto our outboard bracket. The seacycle has been ordered so we can get started on the mounting and seating arrangement.

Photo at Squamish with the fractional kite

[Norse Horse 611]

New team listed, a SC27. https://r2ak.com/2020-full-race-participants/

Best time for a SC27 stands at 5-5-41 https://r2ak.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2019_18_17_16_15-Results-8.pdf

R2AK ride for sale "Giant Corn" https://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/CampC-25_33581064

 

Phot of the day, Drew Malcom, from https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/r2ak/recent/

 

 

[Quilbilly 97]

The Santa Cruz is last year's Team Ripple boat. 

 

[Hitchhiker 872]

On 9/22/2019 at 10:53 AM, Norse Horse said:

Some mixed comments on social media re Outside. "Go Gaff or go home" Race To Alaska by Northwest Maritime Center - Posts | Facebook

A new arms race? Beyond fuel cells, war machines, pro crews, foilers, seventy foot upwind machines, teams bowing out if the weather window doesn't suit a shot at the record. Will these times overlay previous wins or have a footnote. An Un-evil 5 year plan to split it into 2 races?

Why limit the outside, rowboats, kayaks, SUP's and TI type craft have been out here already, heck a 17 year old has circumnavigated. Somewhat safer when you can beach your craft. This would attract the ocean rowers, Karl Kruger, Mathieu Bonnier...certainly up the tracker junkie meter.

https://www.explore-mag.com/An-Epic-Stand-Up-Paddleboard-Journey-on-BCs-West-Coast

https://mountainculturegroup.com/youngest-solo-paddle-around-vancouver-island/

https://www.adventuresportsnetwork.com/sport/paddle-sports/canoe-kayak/race-vancouver-island-record/

https://www.westernliving.ca/What-Its-Like-to-Paddleboard-from-Washington-to-Tofino

Certainly some leadminers will try the outside just as a test of mettle. Can an ODay 27 survive it? The history of the shipping and shipwrecks and the lifesaving trail is a compelling backstory to the race.

Who will portage Vancouver Island someone asked? 1st suspect would have to be this guy here.

https://r2ak.com/2018-teams-full-race/team-take-me-to-the-volcano-3/

Or this guy.

https://r2ak.com/2018-teams-full-race/team-trak-kayaks/

 

Not sure anyone will try the most eastern inside passage via Yaculta, except for being the first team to transit it in the full race. I looked for an aerial photo of when it is on full boil..remembered a nasty one but no luck finding it.

Okisollo Passage, Octopus Islands and Surge Narrows is a very nice passage. Some surfing, too, but not like Skook. When the Johnstone Strait is eating Arlberg 23's for breakfast, you can get a better flush north. Attn, Mr Prius, you could portage west on Quadra Island north...

 

Note that Quadra Island is protected from the Zombie Apocalypse by the strong tides on all sides, much too strong for zombies to walk the bottom and too far to reach at slack. So secret it never made the top ten list. Good to know if you are out racing r2ak and world affairs go Pear Shaped. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/guide-to-wait-out-the-zombie-apocalypse

 

 

Brilliant! I wonder if they come back and say. I didn't go anywhere. But, I hit 10 knots getting there.