KC375

Ro Ro Rolls Over in Georgia

Recommended Posts

Departing Brunswick and began listing. Very odd. Departing it was empty of cargo right? Ballast pump malfunction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is gonna by to be interesting.  They off loaded vehicles from the lower decks. Then went to sea with empty lower decks and vehicles on upper decks. 

 

There is no appealing the laws of physics.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is becoming a regular thing. COUGAR ACE, TRICOLOR, HOEGH OSAKA, and now the GOLDEN RAY.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are crews getting sloppier with stability calcs, loading and ballast? It's not like there has been any recent changes to basic physics.

Tricolor was a more traditional screw up...collision with another ship, but Cougar Ace and Hoegh Osaka look more like Golden Ray as stability issues. Cougar Ace had ballast issues during balast water change over, Hoegh Osaka seems had loading plan issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every time I see a RoRo I wonder how they can float upright.

Apparently they can't.

The ugliest ships ever to be launched.

image.png.7bc7f54c08df1b31085f6d29d92ba0eb.pngimage.png.3025276f5a28d62d086200e1bd21ffb9.pngimage.png.bb78bffcca6ce2abd1329da992529e7e.pngimage.png.1ce827aab7582b6d7b0dba4d5c56a746.pngimage.png.f90b25a30922799d9f355c05f4f6e701.pngimage.png.84d3d223d7b76af11734e1a112fdbaaa.pngimage.png.f9108961dce24f754983ecc78fb5e09e.png

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, KC375 said:

 

Tricolor was a more traditional screw up...collision with another ship,

correct, happened right here, but there was one detail that was never highlighted in that some of the blame could be directed to the Belgian authorities who had not honoured agreements with the neighbouring countries, the agreement was that there would be full radar coverage over the channel, but at the moment and the place of the Tricolor incident they were in a black spot = not covered by radar, because the radar tower that needed to be put some 10 miles out to cover the area where the "rail" (channel separation zone) splits into a separation zone to Germany and the one going to Antwerp was not built because the funding was not there ... guess what happened within the next months ? yes, sure, suddenly funding was agreed and radar tower built. Takes a good accident to get things done overhere.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, just looked that up. Talk about busy neighbourhood.

The wreck was initially guarded by the French maritime police patrol boat P671 Glaive and HMS Anglesey (a 195 ft Bpatrol vessel), two salvage vessels and three wreck buoys. The Dutch vessel Nicola struck the wreck the next night.  Two additional patrol ships and six more buoys were added yet the Turkish-registered fuel carrier Vicky struck the wreck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I think you found another capsize I missed? What's that one that say express?

https://gcaptain.com/the-amazing-race-to-save-the-modern-express-in-photos/

Of course it did get launched, loaded and made at least part of a voyage so it could have been worse I suppose.

https://gcaptain.com/video-emerges-10m-yacht-launch-fail/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Cargo ship 'listing heavily' in Georgia port, 4 crew members missing, Coast Guard says"

Understatement of the day....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Snore said:

This is gonna by to be interesting.  They off loaded vehicles from the lower decks. Then went to sea with empty lower decks and vehicles on upper decks. 

 

There is no appealing the laws of physics.  

 

You can't fix stupid!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

You can't fix stupid!!

But sadly you can insure it...  so we all pay more in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Windward said:

But sadly you can insure it...  so we all pay more in the end.

That's largely what insurance is for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am guessing insurers will be off the hook if it was a basic crew Load / Ballast calc fuck up.

Stupidity is generally covered. Negligence not so much,  especially if its your job to make sure a cluster like this doesn't occur.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeez!  I got my K1 on a RoRo last year!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

These Ro-Ro's are just living up to their names...

Need to change the name from Ro-Ro to Rut-Roh!

(Looks like its going to take more than a box of Scooby snacks to fix that mess!)

- Stumbling

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

These Ro-Ro's are just living up to their names...

that's "Rut Rho" 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Every time I see a RoRo I wonder how they can float upright.

Apparently they can't.

The ugliest ships ever to be launched.

image.png.7bc7f54c08df1b31085f6d29d92ba0eb.pngimage.png.3025276f5a28d62d086200e1bd21ffb9.pngimage.png.bb78bffcca6ce2abd1329da992529e7e.pngimage.png.1ce827aab7582b6d7b0dba4d5c56a746.pngimage.png.f90b25a30922799d9f355c05f4f6e701.pngimage.png.84d3d223d7b76af11734e1a112fdbaaa.pngimage.png.f9108961dce24f754983ecc78fb5e09e.png

Ugly thought they are, I think the latest cruise ships set the standard for lacking seaworthiness and being homely.  (Southern expression for being butt ugly but consider that they want to go home so their steel can  be  recycled and live happily as beer cans and trash dumpsters)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

is it possible that they were fighting a fire on the upper decks and brought too much water to bear and created the instability  Or did the fire come after the tip over?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Marcjsmith said:

is it possible that they were fighting a fire on the upper decks and brought too much water to bear and created the instability  Or did the fire come after the tip over?

 

I guess the accident investigation will get to the answer.

If operated and designed properly, ya gotta admire the design of the car carriers as an egineering and market driven optimization.  Or at least I do, maybe because as a naval architecture student I spent junior and senior years in college designing one as my final design project.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

At least one member of the rescued crew suffered an injury, said Vicki West, Director of the International Seafarers Center in Brunswick. One crewman suffered a broken ankle, for which he was treated at Southeast Georgia Health System’s Brunswick hospital and released, she said.

The crew members were being fed and provided with Bibles and packets of necessities Sunday afternoon at the Seafarer Center, 307 Newcastle St., she said. The crew consists primarily of Filipinos, although two of the rescued crewmen were South Korean, she said.

wtf ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, KC375 said:

USCGSoutheastVerified account @USCGSoutheast

#BreakingNews Salvage crews have have made contact with crew members in the #GoldenRay. Conditions unknown. Extraction being planned. #HappeningNow

 

 

hope everyone makes it out ok,  but the guys on the shaft reminded of the Poseidon adventure.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

wtf ?

The conditions on a lot of the non-US / non-Western European flagged cargo vessels are unbelievably shitty and oppressive, so religious groups do a lot of charitable things for the mariners whenever they're in port - sometimes for a few hours, sometimes sitting on an anchor for a couple days.  The one I'm familiar with in Balmer, Stella Maris, is like a Catholic version of the USO for the troops.  If they want, the mariners can go there, get a meal, call home for cheap or free, attend mass, get some warm clothes (big problem for the guys from the tropics) or get help with some of the serious problems that sometimes go down on board.  That sometimes includes cops or legal help for witnesses or victims of major crimes.  All manner of crap.  You or I may scoff at it but it seems to mean a lot to some of the crew, particularly those from warmer climates and the religiously observant.   

I don't know what they do in Georgia but from the sounds of it, the Baptists are all over it...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has happened many times in the Southeast where there are long dredged channels and lots of current. The suction of another vessel passing will pull the oncoming vessel to one side, often grounding, and in this case, veering to one side so fast it turns over.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Lex Teredo said:

The conditions on a lot of the non-US / non-Western European flagged cargo vessels are unbelievably shitty and oppressive, so religious groups do a lot of charitable things for the mariners whenever they're in port - sometimes for a few hours, sometimes sitting on an anchor for a couple days.  The one I'm familiar with in Balmer, Stella Maris, is like a Catholic version of the USO for the troops.  If they want, the mariners can go there, get a meal, call home for cheap or free, attend mass, get some warm clothes (big problem for the guys from the tropics) or get help with some of the serious problems that sometimes go down on board.  That sometimes includes cops or legal help for witnesses or victims of major crimes.  All manner of crap.  You or I may scoff at it but it seems to mean a lot to some of the crew, particularly those from warmer climates and the religiously observant.   

I don't know what they do in Georgia but from the sounds of it, the Baptists are all over it...

The one I've known about forever is the Seaman's Church Institute.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marcjsmith said:

hope everyone makes it out ok,  but the guys on the shaft reminded of the Poseidon adventure.

 

That was a career high point for her, prominent in obit this week. ROROs seem stable on their beam ends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cheap Beer said:

This has happened many times in the Southeast where there are long dredged channels and lots of current. The suction of another vessel passing will pull the oncoming vessel to one side, often grounding, and in this case, veering to one side so fast it turns over.

I'd like to see an animation of the two ships passing and how/when the RO RO went beyond it's maximum righting moment. Perhaps it was the speed of the turn (if it turned) or a turn with a grounding on the high side. I wonder if that scenario is part of the stability calcs? Is that pilot responsibility, when a pass could push a RO RO past it's max righting moment due to channel shape and depth and current during a pass?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lex Teredo said:

The conditions on a lot of the non-US / non-Western European flagged cargo vessels are unbelievably shitty and oppressive, so religious groups do a lot of charitable things for the mariners whenever they're in port - sometimes for a few hours, sometimes sitting on an anchor for a couple days.  The one I'm familiar with in Balmer, Stella Maris, is like a Catholic version of the USO for the troops.  If they want, the mariners can go there, get a meal, call home for cheap or free, attend mass, get some warm clothes (big problem for the guys from the tropics) or get help with some of the serious problems that sometimes go down on board.  That sometimes includes cops or legal help for witnesses or victims of major crimes.  All manner of crap.  You or I may scoff at it but it seems to mean a lot to some of the crew, particularly those from warmer climates and the religiously observant.   

I don't know what they do in Georgia but from the sounds of it, the Baptists are all over it...

I' m sure they do help a lot..  but it's a funny thing to report..  got to love Ga.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

I am guessing insurers will be off the hook if it was a basic crew Load / Ballast calc fuck up.

Stupidity is generally covered. Negligence not so much,  especially if its your job to make sure a cluster like this doesn't occur.

False, crew fuck-ups are not excluded. If they were what good would insurance be?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

False, crew fuck-ups are not excluded. If they were what good would insurance be?

Case by case, but you are correct that obviously negligence is covered in most liablility insurance policies.  Gross negligence is often excluded, and willful or reckless acts are very frequently excluded - or attempted to be - though there's insurance for that too ($$$).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did they put the fire out? 

It might be from some residual gasoline and vapor in a vehicle that broke loose.  I'm happy to be wrong, as that sort of fire can spread.

Good that they're doing well with the "extraction."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Did they put the fire out? 

It might be from some residual gasoline and vapor in a vehicle that broke loose.  I'm happy to be wrong, as that sort of fire can spread.

Good that they're doing well with the "extraction."

That’s got be a hellish trip down there!!  Imagine the fluids from the engine room everywhere with a 90 degree heel for this long? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fourth crew member rescued from overturned cargo ship, Coast Guard says

 

Well Done!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is good news cannot imagine being below in an engine room once that hit 45 degrees heel and then the lights went out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great job Coasties!

Confused about how this impacts their motto?  You have to go in, but you don't have to come out?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Temperatures for rescue workers on the outside of the ship rose to 120 fahrenheit (49 Celsius) and USCG Captain John Reed told reporters he believed it was even hotter inside the vessel.

From g-captain.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The theory that a passing ship's wake tripped on an estuarial current and rolled a stable 600' vessel onto its side, well, I hope they have good routing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Any good deals to be had on a Kia?

Some smoking hot deals, no doubt!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bruno said:

The theory that a passing ship's wake tripped on an estuarial current and rolled a stable 600' vessel onto its side, well, I hope they have good routing.

IOW, a wave hit it.  Chance in a million. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that we can enjoy that there was no loss of life in this incident, the focus is on cleanup.  How will they right and remove that thing?  I haven't seen many reports, but, did any of the cars break loose and go into the water?   I'm interested, but admittedly ignorant to the mechanics of how all this stuff happens. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt that any vehicles are off the ship, but I'll bet that they are all on the low side now.

And they are wet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ropetrick said:

I doubt that any vehicles are off the ship, but I'll bet that they are all on the low side now.

And they are wet.

And bent.

- Stumbling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, stumblingthunder said:

And bent.

And possibly fire-damaged.

Plus there's now a hole in the bottom of the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ropetrick said:

I doubt that any vehicles are off the ship, but I'll bet that they are all on the low side now.

And they are wet.

The same thing (falling on its side) happened to a RoRo here some years ago.

All the cars were scrap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, silent bob said:

I think that is a Sportage. I have a Sportage and thought it would float well but just haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The same thing (falling on its side) happened to a RoRo here some years ago.

All the cars were scrap.

That was probably the Cougar Ace. Of the almost 5,000 mazdas only 41 vehicles broke free.  Mazda reported minimal damage to the vehicles. All the same they chose scrape all of them.

I can see how that was the rational thing for Mazda - loss covered by insurance, avoid any possible PR and warrantee issues if some unforceen issue later imerged from leaving cars hanging for a month.

But still destroying almost 5,000 effectively new vehicles doesn't seem the right answer (what's the carbon footprint on that?) from a total system view. (Given them away as taxis/public transit to an impoverished location or something).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ropetrick said:

I doubt that any vehicles are off the ship, but I'll bet that they are all on the low side now.

And they are wet.

 

Aren't they strapped to tie-downs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KC375 said:

But still destroying almost 5,000 effectively new vehicles doesn't seem the right answer (what's the carbon footprint on that?) from a total system view. (Given them away as taxis/public transit to an impoverished location or something).

That reminded me of the "Iranian Taxi" situation here back around 1979. GM had built a fleet of COPO Malibu's for taxis in Iran - they were an odd combination of taxi cab stripper with metric instruments and 3 speed sticks. They got stopped because of the hostage crisis (IIRC) and couldn't be sold in the States due to the metric dashboards so they got sold here dirt cheap.

I guess that makes us an impoverished location. :D I know I was at the time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That reminded me of the "Iranian Taxi" situation here back around 1979. GM had built a fleet of COPO Malibu's for taxis in Iran - they were an odd combination of taxi cab stripper with they had metric instruments and 3 speed sticks. They got stopped because of the hostage crisis (IIRC) and couldn't be sold in the States due to the metric dashboards so they got sold here dirt cheap.

I guess that makes us an impoverished location. :D I know I was at the time.

What driveline?  Sounds like those would have been a solid basis for a retro-sedan-sport-cruiser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

What driveline?  Sounds like those would have been a solid basis for a retro-sedan-sport-cruiser

Can't remember for sure but they were stripped 4 doors with 3 speed sticks and IIRC straight 6's.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Bruno said:

The theory that a passing ship's wake tripped on an estuarial current and rolled a stable 600' vessel onto its side, well, I hope they have good routing.

The pressure wave causes the ship to turn, it grounds and with reduced draft/stability rolls over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

That reminded me of the "Iranian Taxi" situation here back around 1979. GM had built a fleet of COPO Malibu's for taxis in Iran - they were an odd combination of taxi cab stripper with metric instruments and 3 speed sticks. They got stopped because of the hostage crisis (IIRC) and couldn't be sold in the States due to the metric dashboards so they got sold here dirt cheap.

I guess that makes us an impoverished location. :D I know I was at the time.

A friend of my brother had one, purchased dirt cheap (otherwise you wouldn't). Underpowered, mediocre GM sedan with three on the flour that didn't shift well. In other words near perfect car for a starving student.

Not Iran but that neighbourhood. Iraq, in 81, ordered 25,000 of them from GM Canada but after taking delivery on half cancelled the rest (mid Iran-Iraq war, other priorities). The remaining 12,000 stayed in Canada - given GM quality at the time most of them returned to "nature" pretty quickly.

 

image.png.db08c7b73b63a8c7e5cd7adc1d173a7d.png

image.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically 3 things going on with this roro car carrier debacle and previous ones.

1. Naval architecture. (The actual design. And how it behaves in dynamics.)

2. Loading Instrument.

3. Crew training/experience.

The interesting paper I cited earlier gets at (1). Yes, there could be issues there. Dynamic behavior is not considered in detail in naval architecture--to a shocking degree actually. Because it costs money and isn't addressed rigorously in rules and regulations across all aspects. Some, yes. Some parts of stability, yes. But not all aspects.

So we might find that the basic design philosophy of these car carriers is flawed.
 

On the other hand (2) could easily have issues independent of (1) -- or dependent. The "instrument" is computer code of course.

The man machine interface, or (2+3) is another possibility.

And of course (3). Ballasting these vessels isn't as simple as a tanker. But even in the old days when loading and unloading a tanker, the master would go through and develop the conditions by hand, using blank sheets with a table of all the centers, free surface moments, and the bending moment numerals. Then in our brave new world, all that was put into computer programs. So now the master doesn't have to do all those calcs by hand (or the chief mate more likely).

Speculation is cheap. But these are the three main areas of consideration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Basically 3 things going on with this roro car carrier debacle and previous ones.

1. Naval architecture. (The actual design. And how it behaves in dynamics.)

2. Loading Instrument.

3. Crew training/experience.

The interesting paper I cited earlier gets at (1). Yes, there could be issues there. Dynamic behavior is not considered in detail in naval architecture--to a shocking degree actually. Because it costs money and isn't addressed rigorously in rules and regulations across all aspects. Some, yes. Some parts of stability, yes. But not all aspects.

So we might find that the basic design philosophy of these car carriers is flawed.
 

On the other hand (2) could easily have issues independent of (1) -- or dependent. The "instrument" is computer code of course.

The man machine interface, or (2+3) is another possibility.

And of course (3). Ballasting these vessels isn't as simple as a tanker. But even in the old days when loading and unloading a tanker, the master would go through and develop the conditions by hand, using blank sheets with a table of all the centers, free surface moments, and the bending moment numerals. Then in our brave new world, all that was put into computer programs. So now the master doesn't have to do all those calcs by hand (or the chief mate more likely).

Speculation is cheap. But these are the three main areas of consideration.

Do you think the roro rollover in this case would be caused by a re-ballasting mistake while underway in a narrow channel? The paper you cite shows, in the case they looked at, that the metacentric height should be raised by at least 10cm for the weather conditions to make the shape as safe as the comparable large ships.

Seems like a grounding on one side coupled with a narrow channel that might not refill as fast as open water when a ship passes through it, could combine to take the roro past it's tipping point.

I know that's just speculation, especially whether there was any grounding at all, but after all the other roro rollovers, seems like the crew would be extremely diligent, and perhaps this ground effect scenario or dynamic just wasn't foreseen?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, lasal said:

Do you think the roro rollover in this case would be caused by a re-ballasting mistake while underway in a narrow channel? The paper you cite shows, in the case they looked at, that the metacentric height should be raised by at least 10cm for the weather conditions to make the shape as safe as the comparable large ships.

Seems like a grounding on one side coupled with a narrow channel that might not refill as fast as open water when a ship passes through it, could combine to take the roro past it's tipping point.

I know that's just speculation, especially whether there was any grounding at all, but after all the other roro rollovers, seems like the crew would be extremely diligent, and perhaps this ground effect scenario or dynamic just wasn't foreseen?

 

 

Everyone who steers ships knows about the suction problem between ships. But yes, the idea that perhaps it could lead to capsize is certainly not something a tankerman would fear. It just wouldn't happen. It is an interesting hypothesis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Everyone who steers ships knows about the suction problem between ships. But yes, the idea that perhaps it could lead to capsize is certainly not something a tankerman would fear. It just wouldn't happen. It is an interesting hypothesis.

Looking at the charts, it's not very narrow there. The Golden Ray is sitting near the green marker currently. I tried to play it's past track on MarineTraffic, but it won't go back to the date of the capsize. Without the track, who knows if it might've touched bottom. I guess it was possible along the ridge on the south side of the channel.

1847560421_ScreenShot2019-09-10at1_21_59PM.thumb.png.65f81f6918577bcfc9ece063942a2b7a.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, lasal said:

Looking at the charts, it's not very narrow there. The Golden Ray is sitting near the green marker currently. I tried to play it's past track on MarineTraffic, but it won't go back to the date of the capsize. Without the track, who knows if it might've touched bottom. I guess it was possible along the ridge on the south side of the channel.

1847560421_ScreenShot2019-09-10at1_21_59PM.thumb.png.65f81f6918577bcfc9ece063942a2b7a.png

To test your hypothesis you need to do a number of things. You have to calculate the kinetic energy/momentum, estimate the nature of the hypothetical grounding, (fully plastic vs elastic etc) and calculate an overturning moment, and a lifting moment (or figure out some way to explain that issue, e.g. sinking in mud during overturning).
Is is even tipped over the "correct" direction? I haven't looked at spatial orientation of it.
 

You also have to do a statical grounding analysis to determine the effective stability with a hypothetical ground reaction.

There's a good chance that you won't find that the dynamics tipped her over, or that the ground reaction was what set her over. Then again you might find that one or the other does indeed explain it. But you need the lines plan and the T/S book and the loading condition at that point to explore this. So it is all conjecture. But interesting nonetheless. The official report will be interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

To test your hypothesis you need to do a number of things. You have to calculate the kinetic energy/momentum, estimate the nature of the hypothetical grounding, (fully plastic vs elastic etc) and calculate an overturning moment, and a lifting moment (or figure out some way to explain that issue, e.g. sinking in mud during overturning).
Is is even tipped over the "correct" direction? I haven't looked at spatial orientation of it.
 

You also have to do a statical grounding analysis to determine the effective stability with a hypothetical ground reaction.

There's a good chance that you won't find that the dynamics tipped her over, or that the ground reaction was what set her over. Then again you might find that one or the other does indeed explain it. But you need the lines plan and the T/S book and the loading condition at that point to explore this. So it is all conjecture. But interesting nonetheless. The official report will be interesting.

Just looking at the chart and sonar, this hypothesis is appearing to be a weak one. Yes, the official report will be interesting. And unfortunately, the Golden Ray has gone all the way over, not just listed to 80 degrees without taking on water like the Cougar Ace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cheap Beer said:

The pressure wave causes the ship to turn, it grounds and with reduced draft/stability rolls over.

Sure, I could envision circumstances lining up just right for that misadventure but one precursor would be an inherently unstable base condition at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, CruiserJim said:

IOW, a wave hit it.  Chance in a million. 

 

14 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Front still seems to be there!

 

Well, now they can tow it out of the environment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, KC375 said:

A friend of my brother had one, purchased dirt cheap (otherwise you wouldn't). Underpowered, mediocre GM sedan with three on the flour that didn't shift well. In other words near perfect car for a starving student.

Not Iran but that neighbourhood. Iraq, in 81, ordered 25,000 of them from GM Canada but after taking delivery on half cancelled the rest (mid Iran-Iraq war, other priorities). The remaining 12,000 stayed in Canada - given GM quality at the time most of them returned to "nature" pretty quickly.

 

image.png.db08c7b73b63a8c7e5cd7adc1d173a7d.png

image.png

I had a 1979 Malibu wagon with the 305 V8 and a 4 speed manual, the same generation as that.  140 horsepower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, slap said:

I had a 1979 Malibu wagon with the 305 V8 and a 4 speed manual, the same generation as that.  140 horsepower.

Same horsepower as a Cessna 172 more or less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, fastyacht said:

Same horsepower as a Cessna 172 more or less.

In reality less than the Cessna since the Cessna would be rated at that for continuous output.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13379114.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, slap said:

In reality less than the Cessna since the Cessna would be rated at that for continuous output.

Maybe that's why I killed that Isuzu Spectrum back in the day at 130k. I used to do the Speedball Tucker method of throttle control on that poor little 1500 cc engine for 7 hrs at a time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/8/2019 at 4:52 PM, KC375 said:

I know it´s a bit late - but when opening the link from Germany:

451: Unavailable due to legal reasons

We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact webmaster@thebrunswicknews.com or call 912-265-8320.

What are the Brunswick News Editors afraid of? Getting sued? What do they do with the data of their users? Or do they want to stay in Splendid Isolation (which had never succeeded long in history). But as this thread gives sufficient information I give a sh...ort hello!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Knut Grotzki said:

451: Unavailable due to legal reasons

no shortage of work arounds on the net ........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mid said:

no shortage of work arounds on the net ........

is it worth it? Working around I just read:

"In late June 2019, BNI made news for terminating the contract of political cartoonist Michael de Adder, who created a cartoon unflattering to U.S. President Donald Trump. BNI claimed they had planned to replace de Adder with a reader favourite before the controversial cartoon surfaced.[6][7]

As I love all the (Black) Adders and enjoy good Orange jokes I let them keep their isolation and let them rest in peace.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slap said:

I had a 1979 Malibu wagon with the 305 V8 and a 4 speed manual, the same generation as that.  140 horsepower.

I bought a '79 Buick Sportwagon version for my wife. Built a smallblock Chevy for it, put in good shocks, better brakes, alloy wheels & good tires.

Surprised a lot of IROC owners - "What you got in that thing"? :D

Looked just like this.

 

Buick Sport wagon.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Knut Grotzki said:

I know it´s a bit late - but when opening the link from Germany:

451: Unavailable due to legal reasons

We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact webmaster@thebrunswicknews.com or call 912-265-8320.

What are the Brunswick News Editors afraid of? Getting sued? What do they do with the data of their users? Or do they want to stay in Splendid Isolation (which had never succeeded long in history). But as this thread gives sufficient information I give a sh...ort hello!

 

The EU law is kinda like CAlifornia Emissions law. Nobody wants to deal with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites