ziggy

NYYC Invitational IC37

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 I just watched a little bit of the day three video on YouTube and have a couple of observations and wanted to hear other peoples’ opinions  

  •  Both the video and audio quality as well as the professionalism of the presentation completely sucked. The presenters not knowing which boats had onboard cameras, which way the tide was going when they mention it as an advantage, and general amateur quality of the commentary. Greenie should be banned from public consumption and Tucker has had much better showings 
  • The commentators mentioned in one race that the wind was between 14 and 16 knotts which the video seemed to confirm.  My question then is why do all boats have main and jib reefed? Is an IC37 unsailable or dangerous to life and limb fully canvassed?
  •  Is there something in the class rules or perhaps the rules for this particular regatta that says that all boats must race in the same configuration?  My experience in other one design classes is that proper sail selection for the conditions as part of the game. J24 big jib vs little jib as an example although admittedly dated. 
  • Tne tracker at times not even close to video or commentary regarding boat positions to each other or the course. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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Class rules state reef flags. So if RC determines to fly the flags, all boats reef. All things considered, it’s to make racing as uniform as possible. 

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5 hours ago, ziggy said:

 I just watched a little bit of the day three video on YouTube and have a couple of observations and wanted to hear other peoples’ opinions  

  •  Both the video and audio quality as well as the professionalism of the presentation completely sucked. The presenters not knowing which boats had onboard cameras, which way the tide was going when they mention it as an advantage, and general amateur quality of the commentary. Greenie should be banned from public consumption and Tucker has had much better showings 
  • The commentators mentioned in one race that the wind was between 14 and 16 knotts which the video seemed to confirm.  My question then is why do all boats have main and jib reefed? Is an IC37 unsailable or dangerous to life and limb fully canvassed?
  •  Is there something in the class rules or perhaps the rules for this particular regatta that says that all boats must race in the same configuration?  My experience in other one design classes is that proper sail selection for the conditions as part of the game. J24 big jib vs little jib as an example although admittedly dated. 
  • Tne tracker at times not even close to video or commentary regarding boat positions to each other or the course. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Thoughts? I think I'd like to see you do better given the same constraints. Easy to throw barbs from your couch behind an internet sceen name. Please show me a domestic US regatta with the same production value and quality of racing as this event and I'll eat my hat.

go ahead. I'll wait. 

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Great concept & hope it's adopted across the globe.

There is much I could say of other 1D classes that lacks the foresight of this Class. 

Melges have done a fantastic job with what they have implimented, designed & delivered, it is an even playing field & this is One Design. Do an International 1D regatta where boats are shared.  

I still don't like the rule of not being able to hike, anyway ...........

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7 hours ago, trimfast said:

Class rules state reef flags. So if RC determines to fly the flags, all boats reef. All things considered, it’s to make racing as uniform as possible. 

I understand the reason for reef flags but where does that stop? Do they also have "no kite" flags and "85% jib" flags?

If reef flags keep boats racing when the wind picks up, that's ultimately a good thing.

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4 hours ago, jackolantern said:

quality of racing

Uh, basically any event. Start eating. 

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I enjoyed the video and off the cuff commentary by Andy - livened up what could have been a very dry & redundant commentary of a yacht race.   While I laugh at the no hiking, and the quickness of the class to reduce sail - I appreciate that it levels the playing field and extends the longevity / protection of the fleet.  If anything - it puts more empahsis on crew work, tactics and execution and keeps the fleet even more together and more interesting to watch on screen than if a few boats trail due to poor sail selection.  Looking forward to more of it!   

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1 hour ago, AWASP said:

Great concept & hope it's adopted across the globe.

 

Melges have done a fantastic job with what they have implimented, designed & delivered, it is an even playing field & this is One Design. 

Melges is only responsible for marketing the program. The boat was designed and built by someone else. I was told that at the Melges factory this spring and when I asked. 

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Jackolantern- My comment had nothing to do with the competitors or event organizers

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Ziggy - you have a problem with the "quality" of presentation?? Seriously? Get a life!

Having aerial drone footage of a 20 + fleet of state of the art one design 37 ft's + tracking + commentary (whatever, I tuned in and out)... for free at your desk...??? gimmie a break. Complainers like you don't deserve to watch.

How about looking at it half full? I for one totally enjoyed the distraction and ended up blowing off an hour of work wishing I were part of it. Keep it coming, this is good for the sport. Good on you, NYYC.

 

 

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was it good production compared to Monday Night Football?  No.

were they able to deliver and make the event interesting for those of us who aren't sailing in it (i.e. sitting at our desks?).  Yes.

Still a long way to go, but certainly steps in the right direction.

 

EDIT: also, I applaud the effort by NYYC.  We are never going to get high production value if organizations and clubs aren't willing to make the financial commitments for it. What they are doing funds companies like TracTrac which gives them working capital in reinvest in better employees & software.  The more coverage for events like this, the more demand there will be for commentators....which hopefully will attract talent.  Hired cameramen will get better at flying the drones and learning where to place them to get the best angles.  Etc, etc, etc.  Just a summation of incremental improvements.  

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I happened to be sitting down for lunch and I cracked open FB where the video popped up, so I followed it for half an hour. All I could think to myself was how thankful I was for being able to follow my friends on the race course. I frankly also marveled at the quality of the production, for what it it is. I say this because about a decade ago I was participating in an event at NYYC which was floated entirely by the competitors, one of who took it upon himself to stomach the whole bill for the media production. It was mostly a move designed to help the class gain some visibility but moreso to help the less well funded teams get the exposure their sponsors craved. Thus it would also help the viability of the class over subsequent cycles of racing.

Did I benefit from that coverage, sure did and so did the whole class. Last I checked rather a lot of sailors elsewhere also enjoyed the event and the coverage, for what it was worth. Of course it came with the same kind of cheap shots from the peanut gallery about the production quality, but I didn't see anybody else stepping up to write 5 figure cheques to pay for the whole show. Nor did I see anybody else coming out of the woodwork to show the media team, "how to do it properly". As my old prof would always say, "show me don't tell me".

The technical aspects of the coverage are rather tricky to work out. Granted things have evolved a lot in the last decade but it doesn't change the fact that covering anything on the water is a PITA. Have you ever tried to keep up well informed patter for a few hours straight without dropping a highball and kissing the blarney stone that morning? I don't imagine it's that easy.

So I say hats off to the production crew, the on air talent, the competitors and most of all to the gracious hosts of the event at NYYC who fronted this whole party for our entertainment. They didn't have to, but they did it and I'm thankful that they did 

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I haven't really been following these guys very closely, but even the TP52 super series doesn't have live coverage every day. Not bad... cool boats.

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13 hours ago, ziggy said:

 I just watched a little bit of the day three video on YouTube and have a couple of observations and wanted to hear other peoples’ opinions  

  •  Both the video and audio quality as well as the professionalism of the presentation completely sucked. The presenters not knowing which boats had onboard cameras, which way the tide was going when they mention it as an advantage, and general amateur quality of the commentary. Greenie should be banned from public consumption and Tucker has had much better showings 
  • The commentators mentioned in one race that the wind was between 14 and 16 knotts which the video seemed to confirm.  My question then is why do all boats have main and jib reefed? Is an IC37 unsailable or dangerous to life and limb fully canvassed?
  •  Is there something in the class rules or perhaps the rules for this particular regatta that says that all boats must race in the same configuration?  My experience in other one design classes is that proper sail selection for the conditions as part of the game. J24 big jib vs little jib as an example although admittedly dated. 
  • Tne tracker at times not even close to video or commentary regarding boat positions to each other or the course. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I watched at HC with the group from RCYC. I think you can give the video quality a pass for yesterday given the messy conditions. 

Tucker and Greenie were fine! It might be a matter of taste but I liked their back and forth banter during the race. When Kenny joins the broadcast team it will get even better. What I think people forget is the level of action is not exactly like the NHL where they do not have to fill time...given the relative slow pace of a sailboat race they did great. Want to see boring filler? Tune in to the “Ironman Live” broadcast of the IM World Champs at Kona on any given year...they have their own versions of Greenie and Tucker and they turn themselves inside out to fill nine hours of broadcast time of people exercising. Either way, I am tremendously thankful to be able to watch the IC broadcast as we don’t get enough sailing. 

I didn’t see that many issues with the tracker that would have made too much of a difference. I could see a delay by that was it. Pretty much the same as they super series from my perspective.  

Disclaimer: home team guy. Love the fact that the club presents these events and opportunities. 

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So I get to watch a sport on TV that I enjoy doing everyday.  To someone else's point, is it Monday Night Football, nope.  Am I happy that I can watch it, absolutely.  Thanks to who ever you are over at NYYC for budgeting for the coverage and video.

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I watched a bit here at my desk with the sound off.  So I can't comment on the commentary.  The boats only have 3 sails.  So a reefing rule seems justified.  Maybe do some homework on the boat and class itself then start bitching.  The class has a very narrow focus. It's not for everyone.  But as others have stated here, I like being able to watch sailboat racing in the middle of the day while at work.  There are plenty of other things to make a fuss about.

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Can someone link it? Can't find it with a cursory look. 

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This is what the sport needs- free access to easy streaming. Props to everyone involved in getting it to my desk so I can properly slack off.

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11 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Thoughts? I think I'd like to see you do better given the same constraints. Easy to throw barbs from your couch behind an internet sceen name. Please show me a domestic US regatta with the same production value and quality of racing as this event and I'll eat my hat.

go ahead. I'll wait. 

Greenie?

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Yes, well done NYYC for running a great, club-based Corinthian event.

The video coverage and commentary is fine ... I feel lucky to have easy access to it (on-line, and for free). While there is always room for improvement, carping is uncalled for.

That said, anyone who strongly dislikes the NYYC coverage: please consider creating and publishing your own competing videos at the 2021 Invitational. It’s always good to have an alternative, and I will be happy to watch whatever you can come up with.

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23 minutes ago, racinggreen said:

Yo, sup?

People still hangin around here?

lol

not many

nice work over there, for the 3 minutes i watched. miss ya!

 

 

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So I am clearly in the minority here. I watched a bit of day 4 today and Read is a big improvement. 

My comments had nothing to do with the competitors or event organizers And the tone was in line with the general irreverence of this place. I think some of the reactions were a little over the top…

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53 minutes ago, ziggy said:

I think some of the reactions were a little over the top…

I don't. 

I do think the reefing rule is so foreign charterers/invitees are less likely to bang up their brand new boats.

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The boats are sort of like what Long Beach has done with the Catalina 37's over the years, and as such they call the shot on what equipment is to be used. All boats have the same 3 sails and like KR said he would love to sell them more sails but this keeps the competition focused on what the teams can do with equal equipment.

There is talk of replacing the Catalina's with these boats but I am not sure if that is a good thing, you can be aggressive and bang around on the Cat's, these boats they would not want them getting close like that. It would eliminate a lot of the tight action as the rounds get late in the Cong Cup.

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18 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

lol

not many

nice work over there, for the 3 minutes i watched. miss ya!

 

 

you know, just trying to keep tryin! 

Hope all is good with you. I have a million dollar idea for your new business. 

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On 9/12/2019 at 6:54 PM, trimfast said:

Class rules state reef flags. So if RC determines to fly the flags, all boats reef. All things considered, it’s to make racing as uniform as possible. 

Maybe also a consideration that the competitor teams don't own the boats, the OA does. So it's reasonable for them to have a say in how much you want to risk the rig. 

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The boats are awesome, the regatta competitiveness is awesome, and the venue is awesome.  Great coverage, and great for the sport.  We were moored adjacent to NYYC (491) for the first couple of days, a professionally managed event.  Kudos.

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1 hour ago, savoir said:

Does anyone know the charter fee for a season ?

what's the saying? if you have to ask ... i would love to know as well.

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All I can say is they are sure getting the Rolls Royce level of service.  They have been coming back to the boatyard yesterday and today and I have not seen any being delivered by their crew.  It is all young guys who I assume are the riggers.  So you need pros for a 2 hour delivery ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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25 minutes ago, savoir said:

All I can say is they are sure getting the Rolls Royce level of service.  They have been coming back to the boatyard yesterday and today and I have not seen any being delivered by their crew.  It is all young guys who I assume are the riggers.  So you need pros for a 2 hour delivery ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ive been told by a chrtr the all in costs including tips and extras will be about $70,000/season
Its a concierge service -  step off the boat and deliveries, etc all taken care of for you. 

 

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70k is cheap for a fly in, fly out program.

 

I thought it was pretty cool, had it on in the garage while working on the Jeep.  Well done

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They have one more regatta this year and after that the pros will be putting them to bed for the winter.  All of them will have the masts removed so that they can be stored in a shed . . . . . . . as one does.  It will be interesting to see how many private entries show up for that regatta.

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2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

A bargain basement last placed Swan 42 program was 100,000$/year before you account for depreciation from owning the boat. 

hardly the same thing 

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1 hour ago, DHFiend said:

Nationals are in late September.

Southern events are still on the calendar for 2019 and 2020 I think, first one is in November in Lauderdale....

 

It's hard to see very many of the NYYC charter boats showing up for that event.  If I see any being loaded onto trailers in October I'll post about it.

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12 minutes ago, savoir said:

 

It's hard to see very many of the NYYC charter boats showing up for that event.  If I see any being loaded onto trailers in October I'll post about it.

Good point, there are very few NYYC members with houses in Florida.

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2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Thanks for making my argument for me: that the IC37 is better racing for the members that takes less money. 

WTF you talking about? Swan 42s have raced to Bermuda (for people dumb enough). How do you compare their usage to a
an inshore day racer?  Compare them to a C&C 30 

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2 hours ago, RumLine said:

Good point, there are very few NYYC members with houses in Florida.

 

Irrelevant

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25 minutes ago, ease hike trim said:

r/woooosh

surely the owners had no say in the schedule planning

 

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7 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Swan 42s have raced to Bermuda (for people dumb enough).

Yeah, in 08. and they popped a bunch of bulkheads out doing so and had massive repair bills footed by private owners in the process. The first in a long line of expensive repais to keep those boats racing which made people increasingly jaded on outright personal ownership of club specifid one design boats. Then cumulatively between 2008 and 2018 fewer Swan 42s raced to Bermuda than in that first fleet in 2008. But that's not the point. The point is if you're going to have a boat that basically only goes buoy racing, and you want to have a fast, relatively technical, extremely cost effective program, the IC37 is a great platform.

In the Swan 42 you were paying for a bunch of stuff that the boat didn't ultimately get used for anyways. Bunks? Nobody cruised those boats except for a few that did the NYYC Cruise with full fledged tenders. Galley? I betcha there were boats where the stove was never turned on once. Nav Station? Lets revisit the number of Swan 42s that have done distance races: a little trip through yachtscoring and you'll find that of the ~35 shipped to the states Barleycorn, Orbit, and (sometimes) Blazer were the only ones to really ever do any kind of regular coastal racing. 

The final and most important thing is that you're missing is the cultural shift that happened over the time between the conception of the Swan 42 in 2005 and the conception of the IC37 in 2016. NYYC Members, and indeed the general American high-end-professional working demographic, has found their work-life balance slashed to ribbons. To obtain their handsome salaries necessary to keep up with rapidly rising cost of living, Americans are working more and more hours with increased professional expectations from what little free time they do have. There was a time when as a boat owner you could have a hand in the care and feeding of your race boat, but that time has passed. By the end of the Swan 42 class, the teams still in the game had owners stepping off at the end of regattas and not seeing the boats until the next season, while paying boat captains more than the cost of an IC37 season charter just to oversee and work on the boat over the course of the year. Even then, they were dealing with countless issues and dramas. Sails, bottom jobs, lines, electronics, on and on and on.

Can you believe the ecstacy you could put a time-stressed boat owner into if you told him he only had to write a relatively (to the swan 42) modest check once a year and step onboard for 22 days of one design racing in the best sailing venue in the northeast? The IC37 club maintained boat concept is meeting the pent up demand of a market that you need to go back to the 80s to imagine the size of, and it's going to get a lot more people sailing than the Swan 42 ever could. 

 

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11 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Yeah, in 08. and they popped a bunch of bulkheads out doing so and had massive repair bills footed by private owners in the process. The first in a long line of expensive repais to keep those boats racing which made people increasingly jaded on outright personal ownership of club specifid one design boats. Then cumulatively between 2008 and 2018 fewer Swan 42s raced to Bermuda than in that first fleet in 2008. But that's not the point. The point is if you're going to have a boat that basically only goes buoy racing, and you want to have a fast, relatively technical, extremely cost effective program, the IC37 is a great platform.

In the Swan 42 you were paying for a bunch of stuff that the boat didn't ultimately get used for anyways. Bunks? Nobody cruised those boats except for a few that did the NYYC Cruise with full fledged tenders. Galley? I betcha there were boats where the stove was never turned on once. Nav Station? Lets revisit the number of Swan 42s that have done distance races: a little trip through yachtscoring and you'll find that of the ~35 shipped to the states Barleycorn, Orbit, and (sometimes) Blazer were the only ones to really ever do any kind of regular coastal racing. 

The final and most important thing is that you're missing is the cultural shift that happened over the time between the conception of the Swan 42 in 2005 and the conception of the IC37 in 2016. NYYC Members, and indeed the general American high-end-professional working demographic, has found their work-life balance slashed to ribbons. To obtain their handsome salaries necessary to keep up with rapidly rising cost of living, Americans are working more and more hours with increased professional expectations from what little free time they do have. There was a time when as a boat owner you could have a hand in the care and feeding of your race boat, but that time has passed. By the end of the Swan 42 class, the teams still in the game had owners stepping off at the end of regattas and not seeing the boats until the next season, while paying boat captains more than the cost of an IC37 season charter just to oversee and work on the boat over the course of the year. Even then, they were dealing with countless issues and dramas. Sails, bottom jobs, lines, electronics, on and on and on.

Can you believe the ecstacy you could put a time-stressed boat owner into if you told him he only had to write a relatively (to the swan 42) modest check once a year and step onboard for 22 days of one design racing in the best sailing venue in the northeast? The IC37 club maintained boat concept is meeting the pent up demand of a market that you need to go back to the 80s to imagine the size of, and it's going to get a lot more people sailing than the Swan 42 ever could. 

 

 

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It was amazing how many Swan 42s went with the big buck program.  Whenever they had a major regatta you would see the vans arriving followed soon after by the boat captain, a container full of gear and the boat itself on a trailer.  $$$$$$

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23 hours ago, RumLine said:

Good point, there are very few NYYC members with houses in Florida.

About 100 years ago some NYYC members with homes in Havana started the Havana YC. The colors on the burgee are the obverse of the NYYC colors for that reason. 

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On 9/16/2019 at 10:34 PM, jackolantern said:

Yeah, in 08. and they popped a bunch of bulkheads out doing so and had massive repair bills footed by private owners in the process. The first in a long line of expensive repais to keep those boats racing which made people increasingly jaded on outright personal ownership of club specifid one design boats. Then cumulatively between 2008 and 2018 fewer Swan 42s raced to Bermuda than in that first fleet in 2008. But that's not the point. The point is if you're going to have a boat that basically only goes buoy racing, and you want to have a fast, relatively technical, extremely cost effective program, the IC37 Etchells is a great platform.

In the Swan 42 you were paying for a bunch of stuff that the boat didn't ultimately get used for anyways. Bunks? Nobody cruised those boats except for a few that did the NYYC Cruise with full fledged tenders. Galley? I betcha there were boats where the stove was never turned on once. Nav Station? Lets revisit the number of Swan 42s that have done distance races: a little trip through yachtscoring and you'll find that of the ~35 shipped to the states Barleycorn, Orbit, and (sometimes) Blazer were the only ones to really ever do any kind of regular coastal racing. 

The final and most important thing is that you're missing is the cultural shift that happened over the time between the conception of the Swan 42 in 2005 and the conception of the IC37 in 2016. NYYC Members, and indeed the general American high-end-professional working demographic, has found their work-life balance slashed to ribbons. To obtain their handsome salaries necessary to keep up with rapidly rising cost of living, Americans are working more and more hours with increased professional expectations from what little free time they do have. There was a time when as a boat owner you could have a hand in the care and feeding of your race boat, but that time has passed. By the end of the Swan 42 class, the teams still in the game had owners stepping off at the end of regattas and not seeing the boats until the next season, while paying boat captains more than the cost of an IC37 season charter just to oversee and work on the boat over the course of the year. Even then, they were dealing with countless issues and dramas. Sails, bottom jobs, lines, electronics, on and on and on.

Can you believe the ecstacy you could put a time-stressed boat owner into if you told him he only had to write a relatively (to the swan 42) modest check once a year and step onboard for 22 days of one design racing in the best sailing venue in the northeast?

Fixed! ;)

Just teasing, though. Your points strike me as valid.

On 9/16/2019 at 10:34 PM, jackolantern said:

The IC37 club maintained boat concept is meeting the pent up demand of a market that you need to go back to the 80s to imagine the size of, and it's going to get a lot more people sailing than the Swan 42 ever could. 

Maybe. I wish the NYYC program well, but only time will tell.

While ~$70K p/a is quite reasonable for a full-service racing program of this type; it’s still a fair bit of money for most people.

If you meant that there is a demand for access to club-owned and maintained boats - not necessarily IC37s - then I certainly agree. What serious racer wouldn’t trade ‘pride of ownership’ for the convenience and cost-certainty of a high quality OD experience?

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7 hours ago, Svanen said:

While ~$70K p/a is quite reasonable for a full-service racing program of this type; it’s still a fair bit of money for most people. 

Well the offer isn't available to 'most people' so that's a largely irrelevant observation.

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13 hours ago, Svanen said:

Fixed! ;)

Just teasing, though. Your points strike me as valid.

Maybe. I wish the NYYC program well, but only time will tell.

While ~$70K p/a is quite reasonable for a full-service racing program of this type; it’s still a fair bit of money for most people.

If you meant that there is a demand for access to club-owned and maintained boats - not necessarily IC37s - then I certainly agree. What serious racer wouldn’t trade ‘pride of ownership’ for the convenience and cost-certainty of a high quality OD experience?

1) It's a lot of money for almost everybody, maybe not for everybody at NYYC, but vs the general sailing population. 

2) I've had charter boats and been a part of a charter fleet, which was okay to start out on, but as time went on I realized I needed my own boat so I could have it set up "just so", and it does not cost me $70k a year.

Does anybody know if other clubs are considering a similar program with these boats?

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On 9/16/2019 at 4:55 AM, savoir said:

All I can say is they are sure getting the Rolls Royce level of service.  They have been coming back to the boatyard yesterday and today and I have not seen any being delivered by their crew.  It is all young guys who I assume are the riggers.  So you need pros for a 2 hour delivery ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Are you saying yachting = $$$$$$$$$$$$

Shocking!

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On 9/18/2019 at 2:34 PM, Svanen said:

What serious racer wouldn’t trade ‘pride of ownership’ for the convenience and cost-certainty of a high quality OD experience?

Lots of serious racers wouldn't even consider an "experience" that is limited to a few regattas out of one club, in one small corner of one country.

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I think there are a lot of Yacht Clubs that have some sore of program of "Club" owned boats or club designated fleets.  Just not to the extent NYYC has gone.  Our YC has 6 IC24's that are chartered out yearly and available for day and regatta charters.  They are "maintained" by some of the charters through an annual budget provided by the YC.  

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46 minutes ago, GLAZE said:

I think there are a lot of Yacht Clubs that have some sore of program of "Club" owned boats or club designated fleets.  Just not to the extent NYYC has gone.

Quite right. For example, the Island Sailing Club has a club-owned fleet of Sonars, as do Royal Northern and Clyde and Chicago Yacht Club (and the NYYC itself).

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Whilst the Royal Thames Yacht Club owns a fleet of J/80s.

SY_J80.jpg

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21 hours ago, Parma said:

Does anybody know if other clubs are considering a similar program with these boats?

emphasis added.

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4 minutes ago, Parma said:

emphasis added.

It’s been announced that RCYC bought a fleet for the Canada’s Cup, and the rumor mill is that LBYC is eyeing a replacement fleet for the Catalina 37s. 

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2 hours ago, jackolantern said:

It’s been announced that RCYC bought a fleet for the Canada’s Cup, and the rumor mill is that LBYC is eyeing a replacement fleet for the Catalina 37s. 

Ideally areas might adopt the concept, with several yacht clubs in an area each buying 1 boat each and each competing within their area as well as nationally as an OD; if the class/mfgr discounted those boats enough there might be enough interest and be good for the class development and sales to private owners, even if those first YC boats are as loss leaders.

Probably have to build them in China for that to happen, though. The new Fareast 37R? hahaha

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3 hours ago, jackolantern said:

It’s been announced that RCYC bought a fleet for the Canada’s Cup

Really? Where (please provide a link)?

For CC purposes they would only need one or two boats, for a few months. So they will probably charter, rather than purchasing a club fleet of six or more;

It would also be surprising if they have the money for that sort of acquisition, given that they have recently gone heavily into debt to patch up their old buildings.

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10 minutes ago, Svanen said:

Really? Where (please provide a link)?

For CC purposes they would only need one or two boats, for a few months. So they will probably charter, rather than purchasing a club fleet of six or more;

It would also be surprising if they have the money for that sort of acquisition, given that they have recently gone heavily into debt to patch up their old buildings.

The club does not finance even a lint cloth for the CC. Boats/sails/training/ crew budget comes from individual members. That’ll be the case for the 37.

As for an ‘insta fleet’, some members recently got together and bought a bit more than a handful of the VX sportboats at a bulk discount.

Got a link for the heavy debt statement? Didn’t think so.

 

 

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2 hours ago, fufkin said:

The club does not finance even a lint cloth for the CC. Boats/sails/training/ crew budget comes from individual members. That’ll be the case for the 37.

As for an ‘insta fleet’, some members recently got together and bought a bit more than a handful of the VX sportboats at a bulk discount.

The above is quite accurate.

The only club-owned fleets at the RCYC are Ideal 18s (12 of them) and Sonars (six). Which is great - indeed, it’s an example to other Canadian clubs - but is obviously a long way short of the alleged purchase of a fleet of club-owned IC37s (post #62).

2 hours ago, fufkin said:

Got a link for the heavy debt statement? Didn’t think so.

If you seriously need to verify the above, just email cornerstone@rcyc.ca and ask.

While the debt is not something the club boasts about, neither is it a closely-guarded secret. It’s one reason why the annual dues (including an extra 10% capital maintenance fee, and another 10% debt retirements fee) are now so high.

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Don't think any other clubs will sign on based on this math: $300k per boat * 6 boats = USD $1.8 mil. plus sails at $50k per boat = $300k so an initial capital outlay of USD $2.1 mil then add annual operating expenses but subtract charter fees. Call that break even even though it won't be especially if depreciation is included.  Most clubs would rather spend $2+ mil. on grounds, docks, bulkheads, junior programs, ladies sailing, etc.

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5 hours ago, Svanen said:

The above is quite accurate.

The only club-owned fleets at the RCYC are Ideal 18s (12 of them) and Sonars (six). Which is great - indeed, it’s an example to other Canadian clubs - but is obviously a long way short of the alleged purchase of a fleet of club-owned IC37s (post #62).

If you seriously need to verify the above, just email cornerstone@rcyc.ca and ask.

While the debt is not something the club boasts about, neither is it a closely-guarded secret. It’s one reason why the annual dues (including an extra 10% capital maintenance fee, and another 10% debt retirements fee) are now so high.

No need to verify anything. It was the words 'heavily' and 'patch' that got me. The club should boast about its brisk business instead and the 'debt retirement' hopefully does its job as well. Capital costs are a bitch but it's a process.

As for the 37, you are right that you could charter a couple of training boats for the campaign and/or ultimately race the (presumably but not necessarily owned/could be chartered as well) third regatta boat for this type of match race campaign. Ideally three boats is the number. I don't know if 3 is sufficient to call it a fleet though in general terms.

(edit: just not sure who would supply the charter as the boat is relatively new and why would NYYC when they're just breaking in their new toys? Anyone know how many hulls sold total for the 37?)

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There's something nice in the fact that you can switch from the SailGP to the NYYC Invitational and see two guys who were youthful Laser Radial rivals (Tom Slingsby and Michael Dunstan) sailing very different boats in very different regattas, but each winning.  Maybe it shows that each type of boat is lots of fun and equally worth respecting.

It also looks as if the margins in the IC37 are much closer, considering the much greater race length.

 

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18 hours ago, jackolantern said:

Thanks for the link. I had seen that previously, but it says nothing about RCYC acquiring even a single IC37, let alone a club fleet.

It seems to be silent on the point of where the boats are to come from. fufkin says any CC-related purchases will be by individuals, and I strongly suspect he is correct.

On another note: what pretentious twaddle that announcement is. “Olympic calibre sailing facilities”: give me a break. And the spurious Royal Navy connection is trotted out yet again. :rolleyes: Such hyperbole does the club no credit.

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On 9/20/2019 at 6:25 PM, Curious said:

There's something nice in the fact that you can switch from the SailGP to the NYYC Invitational and see two guys who were youthful Laser Radial rivals (Tom Slingsby and Michael Dunstan) sailing very different boats in very different regattas, but each winning.  Maybe it shows that each type of boat is lots of fun and equally worth respecting.

It also looks as if the margins in the IC37 are much closer, considering the much greater race length.

 

1.8mile legs this weekend and every rounding was and finish was still very congested. Relatively fast boats going relatively the same speed speaks well to the design and the controls that the class rules have put in place.

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On 9/21/2019 at 11:54 AM, Svanen said:

Thanks for the link. I had seen that previously, but it says nothing about RCYC acquiring even a single IC37, let alone a club fleet.

It seems to be silent on the point of where the boats are to come from. fufkin says any CC-related purchases will be by individuals, and I strongly suspect he is correct.

On another note: what pretentious twaddle that announcement is. “Olympic calibre sailing facilities”: give me a break. And the spurious Royal Navy connection is trotted out yet again. :rolleyes: Such hyperbole does the club no credit.

I believe that challenging boats need to be owned personally by a member of the challenging yacht club, and that individual needs to be on board while racing. Its my understanding that they will not allow chartered boats to be used for the Canada's Cup.

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44 minutes ago, 'Bacco said:

I believe that challenging boats need to be owned personally by a member of the challenging yacht club, and that individual needs to be on board while racing. Its my understanding that they will not allow chartered boats to be used for the Canada's Cup.

The winning boat of the last CC, an 8metre, was a charter.

Classes like the Farr 40, which was the competition boat of the last few cups before they switched to 8 metre, has an owner driver requirement as a class rule.

 

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57 minutes ago, fufkin said:

The winning boat of the last CC, an 8metre, was a charter.

Classes like the Farr 40, which was the competition boat of the last few cups before they switched to 8 metre, has an owner driver requirement as a class rule.

 

Correct. Hollandia was a charter. As i said above, its my understand that will no longer be allowed. As the host for the next few CC regattas, RCYC issued new rules and format with the adoption of the IC37.

Capture.JPG

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14 minutes ago, gullwinkle said:

2 things,

How is Benji a cat 1?

and how can you allow tillers or duel wheels?

Why wouldn’t he be? He’s no longer an employee of north sails...

Tiller/Wheels optionality is weird. Chock it up to trying to build a new class and needing owners to buy in. Wheel boat is one of the first privately owned boats. Based on the results it doesnt seem like the extra weight and reduced feel in the helm was a bonus. 

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1 hour ago, jackolantern said:

Why wouldn’t he be? He’s no longer an employee of north sails...

Tiller/Wheels optionality is weird. Chock it up to trying to build a new class and needing owners to buy in. Wheel boat is one of the first privately owned boats. Based on the results it doesnt seem like the extra weight and reduced feel in the helm was a bonus. 

The Farr 40s also had a tiller/wheel option. The main preference was in manoeuvrability during starts, not so much of a difference once you get up and book it.

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9 hours ago, gullwinkle said:

and how can you allow tillers or duel wheels?

It works the same way it worked for the long lasting Farr 40 and J/105 One Design classes, as well as the less successful Soto 40 class.

All the club owned boats are tillers, that will never change.  For a private owner who may be lacking youth or strength, the wheel can prove to be a very good option.

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9 hours ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:
9 hours ago, gullwinkle said:

 

How is Benji a cat 1?

What’s the problem? You can’t beat a retired cancer survivor in his 60s with a replaced hip?   Pussy! 

so he didn't get any endorsement money for using that orange hair dye?

he's essentially been a cat1 since mr z passed

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