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badlatitude

How Dumb is Trump? This Dumb

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The Trump administration is expected on Wednesday to formally revoke California's legal authority to set tailpipe pollution rules that are stricter than federal rules, in a move designed by the White House to strike twin blows against both the liberal-leaning state that President Trump has long antagonized and the environmental legacy of President Barack Obama.

The announcement that the White House will revoke one of California's signature environmental policies will come while Mr. Trump is traveling in the state, where he is scheduled to attend fund-raisers in Los Angeles and Silicon Valley.

The formal revocation of California's authority to set its own rules on tailpipe pollution -- the United States' largest source of greenhouse emissions -- will be announced Wednesday afternoon at a private event at the Washington headquarters of the Environmental Protection Agency, according to two people familiar with the matter.

A White House spokesman referred questions on the matter to the Environmental Protection Agency. A spokesman for the E.P.A. did not respond to an email requesting comment. Xavier Becerra, the attorney general of California, wrote in an email: "California will continue its advance toward a cleaner future. We're prepared to defend the standards that make that promise a reality."

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/climate/trump-california-emissions-waiver.html

 

Mr. Trump should discover a bit about California before he does that. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see the world's 5th largest economy secede over this. I think Mr. Trump would have a hard time accepting the loss of $3 trillion in GDP.

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Oregon and Washington would be glad to join.  

This could be the start of something big.  

Maybe tRump could get the NRA to set up posts at the US/Cascadia border to shoot at driver's with known low emission cars heading to Las Vegas.  

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This will be an interesting state's rights argument.   IMHO - I think CA has the right to define whatever laws they want as long as those aren't in contravention to existing, constitutional federal statute.   

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

This will be an interesting state's rights argument.   IMHO - I think CA has the right to define whatever laws they want as long as those aren't in contravention to existing, constitutional federal statute.   

The problem for Trump is that this could literally wreck the car industry. California can tax all day long and the Constitution protects that. What would the car industry do if California levied taxes of 1000% on any car imported into California that does not meet standards? The car industry stands in California's corner on this, How does Trump win a fight with them?

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8 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The problem for Trump is that this could literally wreck the car industry. California can tax all day long and the Constitution protects that. What would the car industry do if California levied taxes of 1000% on any car imported into California that does not meet standards? The car industry stands in California's corner on this, How does Trump win a fight with them?

NRA.

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1 minute ago, badlatitude said:

Bah. All of our Antifa are microbiologists.

DNA.... NRA...... What's the difference!?

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Gropenfuhrer’s base actually considers California to be an enemy of the USA. 

This move will not serve to deepen their faith in him. 

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If Trump is successful, does anyone think that the car manufacturers would actually retool to meet new lower standards that may only be in effect for a year and change? I doubt it. 

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3 minutes ago, Sean said:

If Trump is successful, does anyone think that the car manufacturers would actually retool to meet new lower standards that may only be in effect for a year and change? I doubt it. 

If he's successful, is there anything in the proposed legislation that would compel them to do so?   If so - I missed that.  The car companies are gonna do what's in their best interest in terms of maximizing their bottom line.  If they've already engineered and tooled to build a certain product set?   They won't change that unless they're compelled to do so.  

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

If he's successful, is there anything in the proposed legislation that would compel them to do so?   If so - I missed that.  The car companies are gonna do what's in their best interest in terms of maximizing their bottom line.  If they've already engineered and tooled to build a certain product set?   They won't change that unless they're compelled to do so.  

Won't be legislation, I believe it's an executive branch Rule. I just can't imagine them crafting a rule that puts a floor on emissions. Not even the Trump administration. 

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Just now, Sean said:

Won't be legislation, I believe it's an executive branch Rule. I just can't imagine them crafting a rule that puts a floor on emissions. Not even the Trump administration. 

I think we're unintentionally talking past one another.   No argument w/r/t EO /vs/ legislation.  The rule can't put a CEILING on emissions ( the current CA standards absolutely DO put a floor - ie min requirement on them).   My that is that even if the EO negates the CA minimums,  auto manufacturing isn't THAT reactive, and I don't think that the car companies will respond in a way that tosses everything they've already designed/engineered/tooled to build.   Going forward, I could indeed see some changes in production volumes.   

If I've missed something in the language that indicated otherwise, I'd appreciate being squared away. 

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Colorado just adopted the California emissions standards.

AGITC --  First, they're also trying to weaken the CAFE standards at the federal level. It's not just production levels that will favor higher overall emissions, it's pollution controls on vehicles that might be no longer required to meet California's standards. I think this is more of an auto dealers' issue than an auto makers' issues, as the dealers will have to work harder to sell a fleet average that meets stricter standards. It's work for the makers too, but I think dealers are the bigger snowflakes. Bottom line is, tailpipe emissions will go down a lot slower. That's bad for CO2 levels, and bad for air pollution. We have some bad air pollution here in Denver. This will not help.

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
1 hour ago, Sean said:

 

I think we're unintentionally talking past one another

I think you’re right. 

My point is, California may be compelled to lower their standards (raising their ceiling on allowed emissions), but I can’t imagine car companies retooling for a potentially very short term “gain”. No way the government is going to force them to emit more pollution in my view. 

This shit show is emblematic of a very fucked up administration. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sean said:

I think you’re right. 

My point is, California may be compelled to lower their standards (raising their ceiling on allowed emissions), but I can’t imagine car companies retooling for a potentially very short term “gain”. No way the government is going to force them to emit more pollution in my view. 

This shit show is emblematic of a very fucked up administration. 

 

Do you think it's re-tooling?

Or just relaxing the software that drives the fuel injection and oxygen ratios?

 

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19 minutes ago, Mike G said:

Do you think it's re-tooling?

Or just relaxing the software that drives the fuel injection and oxygen ratios?

 

Ok, but why would they?

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58 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

It's not just California. Most of the civilised world have similar high emissions standards.
 

Will American car companies risk their export markets?

 

Not in regards to tariffs.

image.png.79d9b03c179bb60072944a46c6f872d2.png

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2 minutes ago, Sean said:

Ok, but why would they?

I guess I always thought it's a fine line between emissions and power and mileage.

Every advertisement on TV is a car doing a powerslide in the desert, or a truck pulling a huge cargo load.

My FIL had a diesel with an adjustable aftermarket chip.  There was the economy setting, close to stock, and 10 levels that increased

power up to the highest, "rolling coal" mode.

I agree with you that the automakers probably won't retool their engine designs based on a whim that will be changed again in the future, but

I do think it's easy to just change the chip or software to make a more powerful, less green auto.

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You can begin to understand this if you think the rationale is not about anything logical rather its just about undoing everything the Kenyan and his kind enacted in the previous 8 years.

It's a wonder Donnie and his elk can even walk,  from that much shooting themselves in the feet.

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3 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

No, Shitstain is even dumber.

image.png.98e27eb9b33201a93e9c466e68809e24.png

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-administration-allows-pork-slaughterhouses-have-fewer-usda-inspectors-n1055451

He got the necessary OK from Riyadh. Tel Aviv was too busy.

I don't think that pork is halal.....

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It is however kosher as of like 2010. However, nothing will cut into exports quite like lowering food safety standards.

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1 minute ago, Olsonist said:

It is however kosher as of like 2010. However, nothing will cut into exports quite like lowering food safety standards.

Well...... Yanno..... Bacon and bagels go together like horseradish, and cabbage.... This I tell ya bruddah...... You can't have one widdout the other!

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Gavin will take a page from the Trump playbook and simply refuse to comply. That will send it to the courts, and Gavin will simply refuse to comply with any federal court order. Trump and Barr will be long gone, and hopefully replaced by more rational people, before anything could happen. And auto makers won't even consider changing standards based on the petulant whims of Ding-Dong Trump.

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20 hours ago, Sean said:

I think you’re right. 

My point is, California may be compelled to lower their standards (raising their ceiling on allowed emissions), but I can’t imagine car companies retooling for a potentially very short term “gain”. No way the government is going to force them to emit more pollution in my view. 

This shit show is emblematic of a very fucked up administration. 

 

Perhaps a compromise could be reached with the administration that would not require any retooling.  Like when tires get replaced, the old ones get burned.  There would be no retooling in that case, and the burning of the tires would probably sufficiently pollute the air to satisfy the administration. 

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On 9/17/2019 at 3:20 PM, Ease the sheet. said:

It's not just California. Most of the civilised world have similar high emissions standards.
 

Will American car companies risk their export markets?

 

they have export markets?

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

they have export markets?

Yes, they are exporting production to their overseas markets to get away from those ludicrous fucking tariffs that China is paying. Not.  

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

they have export markets?

Of course. Your average German, Frenchman, Dutchman, Brit all dream of owning a badly-made oversized thirsty beast that handles and stops like a barge full of shit, and looks like every rapper's dream.

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4 hours ago, Happy said:

Of course. Your average German, Frenchman, Dutchman, Brit all dream of owning a badly-made oversized thirsty beast that handles and stops like a barge full of shit, and looks like every rapper's dream.

American trucks and muscle cars are seen by many as status symbols in Germany and the UK.  I haven't spent enough time in any of the other places to understand what they think.   What's an F150 go for in Australia?  How 'bout a Honda Ridgeline? 

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21 hours ago, Happy said:

Of course. Your average German, Frenchman, Dutchman, Brit all dream of owning a badly-made oversized thirsty beast that handles and stops like a barge full of shit, and looks like every rapper's dream.

The 80's called and want you back.

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12 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The 80's called and want you back.

OK, I happen to enjoy sweeping generalizations and snide stereotyping...…….

The Mustang is a big seller here, a friend is happy with his one after 2 years, but man, that interior is cheap and nasty. As a Ford dealer item with factory right-hand-drive, they sell for around $70K+ here.

F-trucks, Rams, Camaros, Corvettes etc are individual imports, pay heavy tax and expensive RHD conversion, making them $120K+ items in Oz.

And for the record, I very much admire the small-block Chevy V8. The current LS series are great motors.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

The 80's called and want you back.

Not really. We don't get the whole range down here and what we get is terribly overpriced compared to European brands, even Korean cars.

There's little to be impressed about when it comes to American cars in Australia.

 

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18 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

American trucks and muscle cars are seen by many as status symbols in Germany and the UK.  I haven't spent enough time in any of the other places to understand what they think.   What's an F150 go for in Australia?  How 'bout a Honda Ridgeline? 

Honda ridgelines are not sold in Australia.

A result of strict border controls.....

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10 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Honda ridgelines are not sold in Australia.

A result of strict border controls.....

Can't imagine one lasting long in a Aussie outback, its a barbie car.

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8 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Can't imagine one lasting long in a Aussie outback, its a barbie car.

Without long travel suspension, all wheel drive and a full chassis, it would be lucky to survive the suburban streets. We got potholes that go all the way to Norway.

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3 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Without long travel suspension, all wheel drive and a full chassis, it would be lucky to survive the suburban streets. We got potholes that go all the way to Norway.

What town is this?   My time in your country was mostly in Sydney, Canberra and up in Alice Springs, and a short visit in Townsville.  Aside from Alice Springs - I was surprised at how good your roads were.    I noticed that the "Utes" seemed pretty popular, as did the diesel Toyota HiLux ( wish we could get those here!) 

 

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On 9/19/2019 at 8:10 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

American trucks and muscle cars are seen by many as status symbols in Germany and the UK.  I haven't spent enough time in any of the other places to understand what they think.   What's an F150 go for in Australia?  How 'bout a Honda Ridgeline? 

I think "freak show oddity" is more appropriate. There were 174 F150s licensed in the UK last year https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?utf8=✓&q=ford+f150&commit=Search it's rarer there than a Ferrari FF

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

What town is this?   My time in your country was mostly in Sydney, Canberra and up in Alice Springs, and a short visit in Townsville.  Aside from Alice Springs - I was surprised at how good your roads were.    I noticed that the "Utes" seemed pretty popular, as did the diesel Toyota HiLux ( wish we could get those here!) 

 

Perhaps we have a different idea of "good"?

We definitely have a different appreciation of sarcasm. I mean, not literally Norway.

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3 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Perhaps we have a different idea of "good"?

We definitely have a different appreciation of sarcasm. I mean, not literally Norway.

I live 2 miles past where the blacktop ends.  Any road that doesn't jar my teeth or make me wash the windows every 5 miles is a good road. 

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5 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I live 2 miles past where the blacktop ends.  Any road that doesn't jar my teeth or make me wash the windows every 5 miles is a good road. 

I'm on the outer edge of suburbia, where population growth is outstripping infrastructure. I get miles of good road with unexplained potholes every 3 miles. These holes, all on their lonesomes, in the middle of flawless bitumen, every 3 miles. While the local council is resurfacing a perfectly good road, next to a school, and causing chaos because the parents at the school, firstly, don't know how to drive and secondly, don't know how to read the stop/go signs held by the uneducated drug affected fuckwit who would rather look at porn on his phone than do his fucking job. I mean, who watches porn in a school zone? Of course, the road work requires the buses to be diverted and the only diversion is the wrong way down a one way street. Though I will admit the look of fear in the face of a stupid person that doesn't know what a stop sign is as a bus bares down on them is kinda amusing. Until they freeze and then nobody's getting past the resultant traffic jam.

All the while I gotta listen to shit on the car radio......

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The Toyota HiLux diesels are awesome. Sadly we only got them in gasoline power, and they were still good, but the self undercoating that the diesel engines provided would have helped a lot of northern toyotas to live past the age of 12.

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I actually finally saw a Hilux. It was on San Pablo in Emeryville. Mexico/Jalisco plates. I guess they're the similar-ish to the Tacoma. It seemed a little taller than I expected.  It's mid-sized but the Tacoma is wider. Supposedly the diesel Hilux is getting EPA tested.

image.thumb.png.f5b0c355924df8c4c690b1ea843b7446.png

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20 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Not really. We don't get the whole range down here and what we get is terribly overpriced compared to European brands, even Korean cars.

There's little to be impressed about when it comes to American cars in Australia.

Then why did you build them there for so many years?

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20 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Without long travel suspension, all wheel drive and a full chassis, it would be lucky to survive the suburban streets. We got potholes that go all the way to Norway.

Last time I drove across central Norway, I asked about the road conditions.  The response was "Well the rocky parts can get pretty mossy and don't try to avoid collisions, that'll just toss you over the side."  Very accurate summation.  

Meanwhile, tRump is NOT getting any smarter. It will be delightful to see California and the 22 other states collectively make a fool of him. 

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Then why did you build them there for so many years?

We didn't. Well mainly we didn't. Australian car designers started to follow a different path in the 60's and 70's.

 

Ford and GMH shared a name with the American companies. We took design cues from both the US and Europe. We built cars that were not seen in the northern hemisphere. The main similarities between Aussie cars and yank cars was probably running gear. Even then, some engines may have been yank, some euro, some jap and some home grown

We went our own way, until the government turned of the taps....

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Monaro

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I'm not unfamiliar with Ozzie cars - to me they always looked like American cars with some Ozzie variations to make them look a little different.

None of them were exactly BMW's or Jaguar's. They rebadged one in the States as a Pontiac GTO FFS.

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49 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I'm not unfamiliar with Ozzie cars - to me they always looked like American cars with some Ozzie variations to make them look a little different.

None of them were exactly BMW's or Jaguar's. They rebadged one in the States as a Pontiac GTO FFS.

I don’t remember the Holden/Pontiac G8 badged as the GTO. I remember the GT and the extra snarky GXP.  Did they rebadge something for the Canadian market?

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

I'm not unfamiliar with Ozzie cars - to me they always looked like American cars with some Ozzie variations to make them look a little different.

None of them were exactly BMW's or Jaguar's. They rebadged one in the States as a Pontiac GTO FFS.

The link above has your gto. Did you at least read it?

Some more...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VB)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(FG)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(Australia)

 

You are about familiar with the average Aussie car as I am with yank cars......

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You could have just left it at "stupefying ignorance of President Trump".

The specific topic doesn't matter - he's stupefying ignorant on everything.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

You could have just left it at "stupefying ignorance of President Trump".

The specific topic doesn't matter - he's stupefying ignorant on everything.

True.

But, I did enjoy the commentary in the article.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You could have just left it at "stupefying ignorance of President Trump".

The specific topic doesn't matter - he's stupefying ignorant on everything.

 - he's stupefying ignorant on everything.”

Perfection is hard to find these days 

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Cutting & pasting be a beetch.

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Not really sure where to put this and I really don’t like starting new threads just for kicks.

story lead

”Global postal union meets amid US threat”

https://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?pubid=3e7227b1-e3b7-4fac-aa07-5f943e58b4c5&edid=16915ad8-3d22-4c04-8104-7a97d78bd02f

what next? Stop the world I want to get off?

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