frozenhawaiian

talk to me about the tartan 30

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hey all, looking at a tartan 30 for weekend cruising and some casual beer can racing. any of you have first hand experience with these boats? from what I've read they're good little boats, well built and sail nicely. anything in particular I should know or should look out for? 

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They’re pretty simple little boats.   A friend picked one up for $3k a couple of years back, and he loves it.  I would not pay over $10k for one, as they are plentiful on the used market with lots of them appearing on Craigslist.  My friend did have to attend to some leaks in the deck around the chain plates, and I believe he reinforced those as well.  Again, it wasn’t a particularly difficult job given the simplicity of the boat.  

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Sailed one as foredeck back 25 years ago for Gov Cups, St Mikes and Beer Cans. Good in a blow, never too competitive but solid. Good 4ktsb. Good crash pad after Armadillo’s

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I sailed one 45+yrs ago and it was very competitive.  A boat that had no surprises as far as sailing characteristics went.  We also got a kick out of stern dumps that hung up on the reverse transom.

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one of my all time favorite boats..........

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Raced on one it Pensacola back in the late 80's.  Like the Pearson 30, its a good boat that can race to its rating as long as you don't load it up with crap, and have a decent set of sails on it, and have updated the sail handling hardware some, which if original, makes changing gears challenging.  Like any boat of its vintage, age-related differed maintenance is the biggest issue...

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Great boat, It was the first boat my dad and I started racing in 1978, we cleaned up through 1984 when he sold the boat.

It was a standard rig, standard keel aft galley with natural gas stove. 

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7 hours ago, dacapo said:

A4 still in it or diesel? 

A4, this one had a rebuild about 500 hours ago, it started right up, idled smooth and went in and out of gear smoothly. the boat has one  approx 5x5in soft spot in the deck but aside from that appears to be in good order. simple biat, manula head, manual faucet in both head and galley. still has the 2 burner alcohol stove which I know some people hate but I've never had an issue with. sails are 5ish years old, partially battened main and a 120ish jib. 

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Oh also the furler is pretty tired. Minimum to replace that is in the neighborhood of $1200. Additionally the boat only has a manual water pump which isn’t working particularly well so that will need to be addressed. The one area of soft deck core and an electrical panel that’s likely original to the boat which really does need to be replaced. It needs some things. He wants $5000, I’m thinking I’ll offer him $4500

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46 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

Oh also the furler is pretty tired. Minimum to replace that is in the neighborhood of $1200. Additionally the boat only has a manual water pump which isn’t working particularly well so that will need to be addressed. The one area of soft deck core and an electrical panel that’s likely original to the boat which really does need to be replaced. It needs some things. He wants $5000, I’m thinking I’ll offer him $4500

90% of the asking as an opening bid?  Go 4K and the worst that happens is that he'll probably counter at 4.5.  Many of the old pumps had rebuild kits.  Good luck!

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Tartan 30 or Tarten 10?

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8 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

90% of the asking as an opening bid?  Go 4K and the worst that happens is that he'll probably counter at 4.5.  Many of the old pumps had rebuild kits.  Good luck!

good point, $4000 makes more sense as an opening offer. honestly the water pump is low priority, if it goes I'll just throw a whale foot pump in and be done with it. biggest concern is the furler it's an very old selden furlex that I don't believe I can get parts for anymore so when (not if) it craps out I'm looking at a minimum of $1200 for a replacement. 

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4 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

good point, $4000 makes more sense as an opening offer. honestly the water pump is low priority, if it goes I'll just throw a whale foot pump in and be done with it. biggest concern is the furler it's an very old selden furlex that I don't believe I can get parts for anymore so when (not if) it craps out I'm looking at a minimum of $1200 for a replacement. 

Depending on the part that fails, if it's something that can be machined within reason, I've always had good luck at your one man machine shops. They usually like a break from the usual and take a real interest in helping you out.   

Let us know how it works out and post some pics.  

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10 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Depending on the part that fails, if it's something that can be machined within reason, I've always had good luck at your one man machine shops. They usually like a break from the usual and take a real interest in helping you out.   

Let us know how it works out and post some pics.  

Id have to pull it apart and see what exactly is wrong but if it's something small and simple yeah I could take it to the machinist I use when I need oddball stuff for the big boat. I'm just only willing to put so much cash into a 20+ year old furler. it actually felt like it could be one of the bearings going. 

here' a few pics

00303_cuO95acNtCL_1200x900.jpg

00b0b_hx8mzkNSKt3_1200x900.jpg

00g0g_ds8iBSi3etk_1200x900.jpg

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Looks great.  You might be able to source a bearing somewhere like McMaster-Carr.  I hate the idea of a $1200 furler on a 5K boat.  

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We had a T30 in the family for decades, I owned it for 8 years before selling it to a frequent contributor here. The hull is solid and overbuilt, lead keel, skeg hung rudder, tiller and super rigid strong rig. I never saw a blister. There is lots of info online, here are some details based on personal experience.

It takes a big jib to make it go, ours had a 130, and since the mast is well aft the fortriangle is big to begin with. Not good or bad, just how boats were made back then. My old furller failed and I elected to replace it with a new Schaefer unit, not a racers choice, but robust and reliable. They came with a tall rig option but your photos show a wood toe rail rather than the aluminum that came with the taller mast. They originaly came with a roller reefing boom that did not work well, most have been converted to slab reefing but if not plan for that.

Look closely at the chain plates, especially the starboard side which is bolted to a smaller section of the bulkhead and more prone to movement and leaks. The ports always leak, your photos show stains on the interior. They can be re built without any special parts as long as you do not damage the alu frames. Since they are through bolted butyl tape worked very well. The stem fitting is a complex alu casting so take a good look for damage or cracks.

The boat sails well with no bad habits and is well balanced. It motors forward fine, but reverse can be a challenge. The prop is just behind the keel, the motor is offset to port, and the skeg makes the rudder inefficient in reverse. My dad always said you can hold on to the tiller in reverse if it makes you feel better, but don't expect any results. Ours had a non folding two blade prop, an advantage since you can mark the shaft and rotate it under sail to align with the keel.

The T30 is easy to work on, engine access is amazing, the best I have ever seen on a sailboat. Tartan thought about access for plumbing etc, I was able to completely redo the head plumbing and add a holding tank with no cutting. Access to the fuel tank is not so good, the starboard cabinets have to come apart, an important issue if the tank is original.

The old pressurized cooktop can be replaced with a drop in Origo, worked fine for us but some do not like alcohol to begin with. 

Overall they are good boats, better built than most of that era. The interior is especially nice with lots of solid wood. Feel free to reply with any specific questions.

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A quick added note, ours had the full starboard galley, this one has the aft one with the funky icebox than can be accessed from the cockpit, so tank access may bet better.

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9 hours ago, steele said:

We had a T30 in the family for decades, I owned it for 8 years before selling it to a frequent contributor here. The hull is solid and overbuilt, lead keel, skeg hung rudder, tiller and super rigid strong rig. I never saw a blister. There is lots of info online, here are some details based on personal experience.

It takes a big jib to make it go, ours had a 130, and since the mast is well aft the fortriangle is big to begin with. Not good or bad, just how boats were made back then. My old furller failed and I elected to replace it with a new Schaefer unit, not a racers choice, but robust and reliable. They came with a tall rig option but your photos show a wood toe rail rather than the aluminum that came with the taller mast. They originaly came with a roller reefing boom that did not work well, most have been converted to slab reefing but if not plan for that.

Look closely at the chain plates, especially the starboard side which is bolted to a smaller section of the bulkhead and more prone to movement and leaks. The ports always leak, your photos show stains on the interior. They can be re built without any special parts as long as you do not damage the alu frames. Since they are through bolted butyl tape worked very well. The stem fitting is a complex alu casting so take a good look for damage or cracks.

The boat sails well with no bad habits and is well balanced. It motors forward fine, but reverse can be a challenge. The prop is just behind the keel, the motor is offset to port, and the skeg makes the rudder inefficient in reverse. My dad always said you can hold on to the tiller in reverse if it makes you feel better, but don't expect any results. Ours had a non folding two blade prop, an advantage since you can mark the shaft and rotate it under sail to align with the keel.

The T30 is easy to work on, engine access is amazing, the best I have ever seen on a sailboat. Tartan thought about access for plumbing etc, I was able to completely redo the head plumbing and add a holding tank with no cutting. Access to the fuel tank is not so good, the starboard cabinets have to come apart, an important issue if the tank is original.

The old pressurized cooktop can be replaced with a drop in Origo, worked fine for us but some do not like alcohol to begin with. 

Overall they are good boats, better built than most of that era. The interior is especially nice with lots of solid wood. Feel free to reply with any specific questions.

Thanks for all the information. I’ll send you questions as they come up!

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10 hours ago, steele said:

We had a T30 in the family for decades, I owned it for 8 years before selling it to a frequent contributor here. The hull is solid and overbuilt, lead keel, skeg hung rudder, tiller and super rigid strong rig. I never saw a blister. There is lots of info online, here are some details based on personal experience.

It takes a big jib to make it go, ours had a 130, and since the mast is well aft the fortriangle is big to begin with. Not good or bad, just how boats were made back then. My old furller failed and I elected to replace it with a new Schaefer unit, not a racers choice, but robust and reliable. They came with a tall rig option but your photos show a wood toe rail rather than the aluminum that came with the taller mast. They originaly came with a roller reefing boom that did not work well, most have been converted to slab reefing but if not plan for that.

Look closely at the chain plates, especially the starboard side which is bolted to a smaller section of the bulkhead and more prone to movement and leaks. The ports always leak, your photos show stains on the interior. They can be re built without any special parts as long as you do not damage the alu frames. Since they are through bolted butyl tape worked very well. The stem fitting is a complex alu casting so take a good look for damage or cracks.

The boat sails well with no bad habits and is well balanced. It motors forward fine, but reverse can be a challenge. The prop is just behind the keel, the motor is offset to port, and the skeg makes the rudder inefficient in reverse. My dad always said you can hold on to the tiller in reverse if it makes you feel better, but don't expect any results. Ours had a non folding two blade prop, an advantage since you can mark the shaft and rotate it under sail to align with the keel.

The T30 is easy to work on, engine access is amazing, the best I have ever seen on a sailboat. Tartan thought about access for plumbing etc, I was able to completely redo the head plumbing and add a holding tank with no cutting. Access to the fuel tank is not so good, the starboard cabinets have to come apart, an important issue if the tank is original.

The old pressurized cooktop can be replaced with a drop in Origo, worked fine for us but some do not like alcohol to begin with. 

Overall they are good boats, better built than most of that era. The interior is especially nice with lots of solid wood. Feel free to reply with any specific questions.

Thanks for all the information. I’ll send you questions as they come up! This boat has the drop in origo alcohol stove which I plan on keeping, I’m fairly familiar with them and I’ve never really had an issue with it. I noticed the water stains on the interior wood so I think it’s safe to say  the port lights do leak but that’s a minor project. 

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:22 AM, Cal20sailor said:

Looks great.  You might be able to source a bearing somewhere like McMaster-Carr.  I hate the idea of a $1200 furler on a 5K boat.  

Same, I’ll look into them. I’m set on buying the boat, just not going to pay more than $4500. 

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A little late to the game here, but I'll throw in my $.02.

I've owned my T30 about 8 years now and between racing and cruising I've put many many miles under the keel.

Steele pretty much covered the basics above, I'll add a little.

You mentioned a 5X5 soft spot on the deck. Look at what's above and below that soft spot. If it's in the area of the chain plates that would be bad news and cause for further investigation. As Steele mentioned, that starboard chain plate is a weakness in T30s, and if that goes so does your mast!

Regarding that Atomic 4. I think they're fantastic little engines, but you'll hear much criticism on the safety of a gas engine in the hull of a sailboat. Just make sure all fuel related components are up to snuff; tank, lines, valves, blower. Proof of that rebuild 500 hours ago would be good, and any engine upgrades would be a plus (fresh water cooling, electronic ignition etc.). The beauty of the Atomic 4 is it's a ridiculously simple engine. If you know what end of a screwdriver to hold onto, you're capable of doing most maintenance and repairs. Even whole engine replacement is quite cheap compared to diesel. An of course you can't beat that engine location in the T30 for ease of access.

One other thing; I see from the picture that one still has the aft mounted traveller. In many cases, these T30s have been modified for cabin top or mid cockpit (like mine) travelers. My understanding is that aft traveler binds up due to the angular force, and gets in the way when standing at the tiller. Minor thing though.

Right now is a horrible time to be trying to sell a boat. The seller may be willing to take a low ball offer ($3000?) to avoid another winter of moorage fees.

Good luck!

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18 hours ago, hard aground said:

If it ends up being your boat and you need them I have an older Furlex drum and upper swivel in the garage.

confirmed the sale today, taking ownership in the next several days. when she comes out of the water for the season I'm going to dig into the furler and see whats up with it and I'll let you know. 

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4 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

confirmed the sale today, taking ownership in the next several days. when she comes out of the water for the season I'm going to dig into the furler and see whats up with it and I'll let you know. 

One of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life...

Congratulations!

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39 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

One of the two happiest days in a boat owner's life...

Congratulations!

Haha this is boat number 3, but this one will be just mine. Not another charter boat.

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12 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

confirmed the sale today, taking ownership in the next several days. when she comes out of the water for the season I'm going to dig into the furler and see whats up with it and I'll let you know. 

Did you get the one in Keehi from Jeff?  The one that needed an engine?  That would be a good deal.  Congrats.  I think they are great value/speed to price ratio boats. 

A Tartan10 came up from Oahu to Maui and cleaned up on Sat. Labor Day weekend winning 1st overall.  Not sure how they did on downwind race.  

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3 hours ago, kailolo said:

Did you get the one in Keehi from Jeff?  The one that needed an engine?  That would be a good deal.  Congrats.  I think they are great value/speed to price ratio boats. 

A Tartan10 came up from Oahu to Maui and cleaned up on Sat. Labor Day weekend winning 1st overall.  Not sure how they did on downwind race.  

no this boat is in maine, I haven't lived in hawaii for years. it's funny you mention good old jeff, I worked for him back in high school and my brother is looking at buying that trip 40 prima donna from him. 

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"oh my, I have a thing for 30'ers...  just look at her form, her curves, with that integrated keel?  And what I would do to have an aft bustle like that.  Could you imagine what we could do in that cabin?" 

...or is that not what you meant?

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Congratulations on buying a great boat. You probably know this already, but you now need to become a member of the Moyer Marine forum. Great resource to keep that old WW2 tractor engine running.

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3 hours ago, wristwister said:

Congratulations on buying a great boat. You probably know this already, but you now need to become a member of the Moyer Marine forum. Great resource to keep that old WW2 tractor engine running.

moyer marine forum?

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Go here: https://moyermarine.com/

Moyer has everything you could ever need to maintain your A4. I did a full rebuild on the A4 in my daughter's T30 with parts and advice from Moyer (pic below, yes she wanted it painted pink and teal). And you'll want to join the forum (click the "Visit Our Forum" button). Any issue you ever have with the motor can be addressed there.

 

 

 

BarbieEngineSm.jpg

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2 hours ago, wristwister said:

Go here: https://moyermarine.com/

Moyer has everything you could ever need to maintain your A4. I did a full rebuild on the A4 in my daughter's T30 with parts and advice from Moyer (pic below, yes she wanted it painted pink and teal). And you'll want to join the forum (click the "Visit Our Forum" button). Any issue you ever have with the motor can be addressed there.

 

 

 

BarbieEngineSm.jpg

gotcha, will do. my A4 has been painted black. 

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made it official this morning, got every nook and cranny emptied of old miscellaneous junk. the wiring is definitely a bit janky but there's so little of it on this boat I'll just do a rewire this winter. I have the wire I need leftover from another project and just ordered a new panel for $60. the port bulkhead does have some rot and I think I'll also replace it this winter so I don't worry about it next year while I'm sailing.

for some reason the photo uploader isn't working right so I'll try again later to add some photos. 

 

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Looks great.  Does the dog approve?

If you plan to spend any appreciable amount of time at dock, get some real fenders.  

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9 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Looks great.  Does the dog approve?

If you plan to spend any appreciable amount of time at dock, get some real fenders.  

he seems to like it. yeah the fenders are bullshit. the previous owner kept her on a mooring the whole time he owned the boat so he didn't put much thought into proper fenders. 

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On 9/19/2019 at 6:13 AM, frozenhawaiian said:

hey all, looking at a tartan 30 for weekend cruising and some casual beer can racing. any of you have first hand experience with these boats? from what I've read they're good little boats, well built and sail nicely. anything in particular I should know or should look out for? 

Here is an email from one of my sailing academy students. You don't get them like this every day. I pulled the names and boat name to protect the innocent. Tartan 30, yeah it's okay.

 

 

Dear ,

My wife and I completed the five day course (101/103/104/105) back in April 2004.  In May of that year we purchased our first boat, a 1972 Tartan 30. It took about six months to complete the refit but by November of 2004 everything was ready.  We splashed the boat in the Mississippi River in Iowa and headed south.  After waiting out the 2005 hurricane season in Mobile AL (lousy choice of locations) we sailed across the Gulf and through the Caribbean to Panama.  After transiting the canal it was off across the Pacific.

What an amazing six months.  Seeing the Galapagos, Marquesas and Tuamotus, Society Islands, Samoa and Tuvalu was an experience of a lifetime.  We are now anchored Papua New Guinea where we work among several people groups located along the north coast of the Island.

Anyway we wanted to write to thank you for helping get us started on this adventure.  It has been a dream come true and we look forward some day to heading west to continue the trip around.

Thanks,

s/v 
Madang, Papua New Guinea 

Livin' the Dream

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51 minutes ago, no shoes said:

Here is an email from one of my sailing academy students. You don't get them like this every day. I pulled the names and boat name to protect the innocent. Tartan 30, yeah it's okay.

 

 

Dear ,

My wife and I completed the five day course (101/103/104/105) back in April 2004.  In May of that year we purchased our first boat, a 1972 Tartan 30. It took about six months to complete the refit but by November of 2004 everything was ready.  We splashed the boat in the Mississippi River in Iowa and headed south.  After waiting out the 2005 hurricane season in Mobile AL (lousy choice of locations) we sailed across the Gulf and through the Caribbean to Panama.  After transiting the canal it was off across the Pacific.

What an amazing six months.  Seeing the Galapagos, Marquesas and Tuamotus, Society Islands, Samoa and Tuvalu was an experience of a lifetime.  We are now anchored Papua New Guinea where we work among several people groups located along the north coast of the Island.

Anyway we wanted to write to thank you for helping get us started on this adventure.  It has been a dream come true and we look forward some day to heading west to continue the trip around.

Thanks,

s/v 
Madang, Papua New Guinea 

Livin' the Dream

wow, thats damn impressive. 

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few updates:
1. I've started stripping the wiring out of the boat, instead of chasing the gremlins in the old wiring I'm just redoing all of it from scratch. beauty of small boats with minimal wiring.

2. I had the yard pull the mast so I can remove the chainplates and assess if I'm going to replace or just repair the bulkheads.

3.one of the portlight is leaking so I'll pull it out and re-bed it come spring.

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On 9/20/2019 at 8:32 PM, frozenhawaiian said:

Thanks for all the information. I’ll send you questions as they come up!

We kept it for two years, cruised Puget Sound, San Juan’s and Gulf Islands over two summers.

Put it on the market one Friday,  we had a deposit for the asking price by Sunday.

Steele and his father had kept her in great condition, including upgrades.

we would have another one in a heartbeat, seriously considered sailing it home to Tasmania, only real negatives were time,  tankage and storage.
 

As an aside, I was the fifth doctor to own the boat...

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20 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

few updates:
1. I've started stripping the wiring out of the boat, instead of chasing the gremlins in the old wiring I'm just redoing all of it from scratch. beauty of small boats with minimal wiring.

2. I had the yard pull the mast so I can remove the chainplates and assess if I'm going to replace or just repair the bulkheads.

3.one of the portlight is leaking so I'll pull it out and re-bed it come spring.

what's with the outboard bracket  on a boat with an inboard engine?

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A t 30 won this year's Key West to Havana race. 

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6 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

what's with the outboard bracket  on a boat with an inboard engine?

not sure, the boat has an atomic 4 that runs well, not sure why it has a bracket on the stern. 

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4 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

A t 30 won this year's Key West to Havana race. 

damn really? I guess sailed well they can still be competitive 

 

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2 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

not sure, the boat has an atomic 4 that runs well, not sure why it has a bracket on the stern. 

That usually means at some point the A-4 did not run. Why someone would spend $2k on an outboard when you can rebuild that engine for much less...I'll never know.

FH, Did you join the Moyer forum yet? Me and Wristy chat over there all the time. I did not know shit about A4's when I got my boat.

As for the bulkheads, show us some more pics. I repaired one by sistering a piece of teak around were the chainplate was, and got longer bolts..The other side I eventually replaced, because I could cut it with one 4x8 sheet. Later on, I also added jock straps on my C-30 to anchor the chainplates to the thru bolts in the settees, essentially eliminating the need for the bulkheads from a structural standpoint.

BTW - Did lots of racing on a T-3000...just an updated version of the T-30..slightly more modern foils, Tartan moved the engine (and made it a diesel) under the steps, and added an extra set of spreaders...but I think the actual rig dimensions were unchanged. Great boat. We sailed the shit out of ours with a few pickle dishes to show for it as well. Might need a 155% genoa for racing though.

chainplate_tie_stbd.JPG

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2 hours ago, Hike, Bitches! said:

That usually means at some point the A-4 did not run. Why someone would spend $2k on an outboard when you can rebuild that engine for much less...I'll never know.

FH, Did you join the Moyer forum yet? Me and Wristy chat over there all the time. I did not know shit about A4's when I got my boat.

As for the bulkheads, show us some more pics. I repaired one by sistering a piece of teak around were the chainplate was, and got longer bolts..The other side I eventually replaced, because I could cut it with one 4x8 sheet. Later on, I also added jock straps on my C-30 to anchor the chainplates to the thru bolts in the settees, essentially eliminating the need for the bulkheads from a structural standpoint.

BTW - Did lots of racing on a T-3000...just an updated version of the T-30..slightly more modern foils, Tartan moved the engine (and made it a diesel) under the steps, and added an extra set of spreaders...but I think the actual rig dimensions were unchanged. Great boat. We sailed the shit out of ours with a few pickle dishes to show for it as well. Might need a 155% genoa for racing though.

chainplate_tie_stbd.JPG

yeah, the old engine being non functional at some point would be my guess. I'll get on the moyer forum, the transmission does have an issue slipping in reverse. I'll be on the boat tomorrow and I'll snap some photos of the bulkheads, scroll up this page though and you'll see a few photos of them that I posted a while back. 

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6 hours ago, frozenhawaiian said:

damn really? I guess sailed well they can still be competitive 

For sure, here are the results - T 30 Lunasea beat some hot boats. 

And yes, they sailed well - made sure to get their Westing early, so they did not have to beat against the Gulf Stream to get to Hemingway. 

And the boat was also lovingly restored, at considerable time and expense. 

http://conchrepubliccup.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Overall-Scoring.pdf

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11 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

For sure, here are the results - T 30 Lunasea beat some hot boats. 

And yes, they sailed well - made sure to get their Westing early, so they did not have to beat against the Gulf Stream to get to Hemingway. 

And the boat was also lovingly restored, at considerable time and expense. 

http://conchrepubliccup.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Overall-Scoring.pdf

thats impressive. we'll see how this little boat does next summer in the beer can series. it didn't come with a spin so for the time being we'll be in cruising class. 

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20 minutes ago, frozenhawaiian said:

thats impressive. we'll see how this little boat does next summer in the beer can series. it didn't come with a spin so for the time being we'll be in cruising class. 

the T-30 likes some breeze - in the light stuff we could sometimes get them with out S2 7.9 

Have fun !!

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5 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

the T-30 likes some breeze - in the light stuff we could sometimes get them with out S2 7.9 

Have fun !!

yeah for a little boat it's certainly not afraid of a breeze. 

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Not many of these in SoCal, so I did a bit of internet window shopping for one. Pretty good looking boat for the day. Sailing wise, how does the 1970's T-30 compare to the next gen, more IOR-shaped T3000 from the '80? Both S&S designs. New version shaved off 800 lbs while maintaining a similar ballast, according to sailboatdata.com.

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A quick review of the 2017 PHRF History of Affiliated Handicaps so most Fleets rate the 3000 between 9 and 12 sec/mile faster than the Tartan 30.  While I've only raced on the Tartan 30 (and that was some 30 years ago), given the underwater hull and foil shapes, I'd expect the Tartan 3000 to point a bit higher, accelerate a bit quicker, and be faster in light air.  I'd bet downwind or reaching in a blow, the 30 might have legs on a 3000...

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2 hours ago, Pokey uh da LBC said:

Not many of these in SoCal, so I did a bit of internet window shopping for one. Pretty good looking boat for the day. Sailing wise, how does the 1970's T-30 compare to the next gen, more IOR-shaped T3000 from the '80? Both S&S designs. New version shaved off 800 lbs while maintaining a similar ballast, according to sailboatdata.com.

not sure the differences, I only got to sail this boat 3 times before we pulled it for the season. 

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On 12/4/2019 at 9:39 PM, frozenhawaiian said:

yeah, the old engine being non functional at some point would be my guess. I'll get on the moyer forum, the transmission does have an issue slipping in reverse. I'll be on the boat tomorrow and I'll snap some photos of the bulkheads, scroll up this page though and you'll see a few photos of them that I posted a while back. 

There is no "reverse" on a A4 gear box. There is a friction brake band..you must hold pressure on the shift lever in reverse, and it will whine like hell..this is normal..the brake band holds the planetary gears stationary (I think) which allows the sun gear and shaft to rotate the opposite direction giving you "reverse".

Forward should "click" into what everyone calls the detent, which is the fingers slipping over the bottom lip of a cone in the housing and locking all the clutch plates together for 1:1 drive ratio. - kinda like those little mechanical fingers grabbing a screw head down in the bilge. :unsure:

I went back thru the thread..looks like typical 40+ year old rot from getting wet. Nothing that can't be fixed with a little epoxy, some 1/2" marine ply and some ingenuity. 

crash - that sounds about right on ratings. I think my StepDad's boat is 168, and the T-30's would be 174-180. Over here you can get additional credits for roller furling, & fixed props too.

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On 12/6/2019 at 12:31 PM, Hike, Bitches! said:

There is no "reverse" on a A4 gear box. There is a friction brake band..you must hold pressure on the shift lever in reverse, and it will whine like hell..this is normal..the brake band holds the planetary gears stationary (I think) which allows the sun gear and shaft to rotate the opposite direction giving you "reverse".

Forward should "click" into what everyone calls the detent, which is the fingers slipping over the bottom lip of a cone in the housing and locking all the clutch plates together for 1:1 drive ratio. - kinda like those little mechanical fingers grabbing a screw head down in the bilge. :unsure:

I went back thru the thread..looks like typical 40+ year old rot from getting wet. Nothing that can't be fixed with a little epoxy, some 1/2" marine ply and some ingenuity. 

crash - that sounds about right on ratings. I think my StepDad's boat is 168, and the T-30's would be 174-180. Over here you can get additional credits for roller furling, & fixed props too.

I started pulling off trim and such yesterday, the whole bulkhead is 1 1/4in thic and aside from a 2-10in strip near the bottom and a 2-3in area the ret of the bulkhead is sock solid. definitley not going to replace the whole bulkhead, just going to scarf in some new wood with G-flex 

 

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On 12/6/2019 at 12:31 PM, Hike, Bitches! said:

There is no "reverse" on a A4 gear box. There is a friction brake band..you must hold pressure on the shift lever in reverse, and it will whine like hell..this is normal..the brake band holds the planetary gears stationary (I think) which allows the sun gear and shaft to rotate the opposite direction giving you "reverse".

Forward should "click" into what everyone calls the detent, which is the fingers slipping over the bottom lip of a cone in the housing and locking all the clutch plates together for 1:1 drive ratio. - kinda like those little mechanical fingers grabbing a screw head down in the bilge. :unsure:

I went back thru the thread..looks like typical 40+ year old rot from getting wet. Nothing that can't be fixed with a little epoxy, some 1/2" marine ply and some ingenuity. 

crash - that sounds about right on ratings. I think my StepDad's boat is 168, and the T-30's would be 174-180. Over here you can get additional credits for roller furling, & fixed props too.

Here's an okay vid of the reverse gear on an A4. Could be shot better.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, hard aground said:

Here's an okay vid of the reverse gear on an A4. Could be shot better.

 

 

bingo, thanks for that 

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2 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Great tough old boat

As I’m gifting more into the boat I am continually surprised at how stout she’s built. Like that bulkhead for example. Didn’t expect it to be so thick. Other boats this size that I’ve owned the bulkheads have been half that thick. 

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On 12/8/2019 at 5:00 AM, schakel488 said:

This tough old Tartan 30 is for sale:
tartan-30-sailboat-americanlisted_31487123.jpg.961811e91437ec2460fecaf5e326658a.jpg
https://norwalk-ct.americanlisted.com/6850/cars/tartan-30-sailboat_23780291.html
$12,700.= is good value for a lot of boat.
But mostly the cost aren't only the selling price...

Wow, makes me realize what a deal I got 

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I'm going to look at one next weekend.  It's more boat than I need for local sailing, but would be a great boat for what I have in mind for three-four years out.

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got some pieces of solid mahogany planed down to the correct thickness, heading to the yard today to cut out the rotted areas and G-flex these new pieces in. well provided it's warm enough in the boat to do the work, between electric space heaters and my propane heater I'm pretty sure I can get things warm enough. 

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If your scarfing in new sections of a bulkhead, why Gflex as opposed to "regular" West System epoxy, thickened with some 406 filler, or if you don't want to mix, a tube of thickened 610?   I would think you specifically don't want the "flexibility" that Gflex brings...

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9 minutes ago, Crash said:

If your scarfing in new sections of a bulkhead, why Gflex as opposed to "regular" West System epoxy, thickened with some 406 filler, or if you don't want to mix, a tube of thickened 610?   I would think you specifically don't want the "flexibility" that Gflex brings...

because G-flex absorbs more easily into wood which in turn makes for a stronger bond since it's not just sitting on top of the surfaces. 

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Interesting.  I've never heard/read that before in any of the West System info.  I always thought that as long as you wet out the joint with un-thickened epoxy first, esp with plywood, you'd get some absorption.  Learn something new every day here.  What/why does Gflex absorb better?

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1 minute ago, Crash said:

Interesting.  I've never heard/read that before in any of the West System info.  I always thought that as long as you wet out the joint with un-thickened epoxy first, esp with plywood, you'd get some absorption.  Learn something new every day here.  What/why does Gflex absorb better?

not sure, I live in the land of wooden boats and literally every wooden boat builder I've talked to or worked with prefers G-flex over regular west system epoxy for that reason primarily. 

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FH, you can always talk to West System and get their recommendations. SA-er epoxymoron is a West employee if I recall correctly. I have only used G-Flex a little bit and initially I agree with Crash...it is flexible..maybe better adhesive qualities as opposed to an epoxy repair where you want some structural filler. As mentioned earlier, I did not scarf,  but clamped (ultimately bolted together) some solid 1/2" teak into some rotting teak faced ply bulkhead with West and 406 & 403 (if I remember) and it is still holding 10+ years later, which if it existed, i did not know about G-Flex back then.

To contradict myself a bit, we just built a 4 sided Chesapeake Bay Log Canoe mast with G-flex. I was just a helper and followed instructions. :)

You can't bitch too much about the videography...the dude seemed to know his stuff on the A-4 vid. Nice work.

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1 hour ago, Hike, Bitches! said:

it is flexible

Yes, very flexible. I wouldn't use it for primary structure unless West folks said it's OK.

Flexural modulus of gflex is 1.56*10e5 and 105 with fast hardener is 4.61*10e5 or 1/3 as stiff.

The bond will typically break the wood cells. The epoxy joint isn't the weak point!

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Whether to use a "flexible" epoxy versus a "rigid" one has to do with the thickness of the glue line. Look up plane stress versus plane strain.  The flexible stuff has a minimum recommended bond line thickness that is thicker than for the rigid stuff. It is useful for bonding dissimilar materials.

For toughened resins, gougeon also makes rubber toughened ones in the "pro set" line, too.

As for the better absorption into wood, who specifically told you that? Seriously. Just because some boatbuilder says something doesn't actually mean shit. I wrte an article over 20 years ago about this stuff. You know what I said? "Talk to the resin manufacturer!" Don't take hearsay. Get the truth.

I hae to say that it makes little sense to glue up a spar with gflex.

I've spent hours with gougeon (25 years ago) discussing their products. They have always done extensive testing. They know what they are selling and it ain't snake oil.

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On 12/7/2019 at 4:01 PM, hard aground said:

Here's an okay vid of the reverse gear on an A4. Could be shot better.

 

 

what happens with mine is when I go into "reverse" is I get the whine like hell but basically no power going astern. 

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You have to hold the lever when in reverse..you are putting pressure on the brake band which reverses the shaft (basically you are leaning the lever against that spring in the video.) it should whine like hell. If it is still not spinning backwards, there are adjustments you can make. This can all be checked at idle..it is not necessary for it to be all wound up.

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I grew up on a T30 on Eastern LIS. Wonderful boat, and I know Dad never had a concern about getting the family home. In fact, there was a guy at our club at the time who took his to Bermuda at least twice, solo... I believe at least once was a 1-2.

Ours was a standard rig, standard keel, aft galley, still with an Atomic 4. I'll second the points about navigating under power in reverse. The shaft is set angled a degree or two across the centerline, so the stern will walk to starboard. We cruised with a 155 on a furler and were quick to reef. With the skeg-hung rudder, the helm did get heavy after a while. (Maybe it'd disagree now as an adult?)

I'd love to know where #510 ("Pound Foolish") went after we sold it. East to the Cape, last we knew. 

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I'm late to this party, but I owned a T30 for years, and completely refurbished the boat from stem to stern over the course of my time with her.  Sailed the snot out of it on SF Bay and  and had a great time -- rarely reefing and planting to rail on most occasions -- and then up in Puget Sound.

Bought it at a marina lien sale in Oakland (abandoned by prior owners) for under $3K -- knowing nothing about keel boats at the time -- and sold her at the end for $20K, when she was the prettiest, most nicely equipped T30 I knew of.  Lol...

Replaced, and then rebuilt the A4, overcoming overheating issues (added fresh water cooling and acid washing the manifold and jackets), added the electronic fuel pump, and replaced the clutch/reversing basket (I've got a spare in the garage if you need one!)  That motor hummed and ran great on many light air trips around Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands.

Replaced all running and standing rigging, painted the mast and boom, updated the traveler, added B&G Instruments and chartplotter, a stainless windlass/anchor/roller, stainless portlight frames and dorades, a Profurl genoa furler, Origo alchohol stove, refridgerator, battery charger, tiller pilot, new dodger, etc.  All of these updates added great value and function to the boat.

The boat does love a large overlapping headsail, but while in SF I had a great 95% jib made by Pinneapple sails and it was perfect in the heavier air there. She will outpoint many other boats of similar size and vintage.

You are well aware of, and ahead of, the potential chainplate/bulkhead issues that leaks from the deck can create.  I would also note that the foot of the mast sits somewhat hidden in the bilge, doesn't typicaly have a way for water coming down the mast to vacate, and is very subject to corrosion (which can then crumple and lead to loss of the rig!)  Sounds like you've had the mast pulled and undoubtably were able to inspect this -- but something to keep an eye on.  Also, the original forehatch is a somewhat flimsy fiberglass thing with weak hinges that has been known to blow right off the boat...  You can glass in some level frames and update to a proper modern hatch if needed. 

The mahogany interior will clean up beautifully, if you want to put the work into sanding and oiling the finish.  

Yours looks pretty clean overall, and you should have a ton of fun sailing and crusing in this great little boat!  Nice dodger as well.  Congratulations.

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10 hours ago, Xestenz said:

I'm late to this party, but I owned a T30 for years, and completely refurbished the boat from stem to stern over the course of my time with her.  Sailed the snot out of it on SF Bay and  and had a great time -- rarely reefing and planting to rail on most occasions -- and then up in Puget Sound.

Bought it at a marina lien sale in Oakland (abandoned by prior owners) for under $3K -- knowing nothing about keel boats at the time -- and sold her at the end for $20K, when she was the prettiest, most nicely equipped T30 I knew of.  Lol...

Replaced, and then rebuilt the A4, overcoming overheating issues (added fresh water cooling and acid washing the manifold and jackets), added the electronic fuel pump, and replaced the clutch/reversing basket (I've got a spare in the garage if you need one!)  That motor hummed and ran great on many light air trips around Puget Sound and the San Juan Islands.

Replaced all running and standing rigging, painted the mast and boom, updated the traveler, added B&G Instruments and chartplotter, a stainless windlass/anchor/roller, stainless portlight frames and dorades, a Profurl genoa furler, Origo alchohol stove, refridgerator, battery charger, tiller pilot, new dodger, etc.  All of these updates added great value and function to the boat.

The boat does love a large overlapping headsail, but while in SF I had a great 95% jib made by Pinneapple sails and it was perfect in the heavier air there. She will outpoint many other boats of similar size and vintage.

You are well aware of, and ahead of, the potential chainplate/bulkhead issues that leaks from the deck can create.  I would also note that the foot of the mast sits somewhat hidden in the bilge, doesn't typicaly have a way for water coming down the mast to vacate, and is very subject to corrosion (which can then crumple and lead to loss of the rig!)  Sounds like you've had the mast pulled and undoubtably were able to inspect this -- but something to keep an eye on.  Also, the original forehatch is a somewhat flimsy fiberglass thing with weak hinges that has been known to blow right off the boat...  You can glass in some level frames and update to a proper modern hatch if needed. 

The mahogany interior will clean up beautifully, if you want to put the work into sanding and oiling the finish.  

Yours looks pretty clean overall, and you should have a ton of fun sailing and crusing in this great little boat!  Nice dodger as well.  Congratulations.

 

I haven't gotten to sail the boat a ton since I bought her right at the end of last season but it certainly feels like a boat that isn't afraid of a breeze. when we sailed her down to the yard to get hauled for the season it was blowing a steady 30 and scooting down the bay with just the jib up at at a steady 6.5-7 knots I was pretty impressed with the little thing.the it came with a fully battened mainsail and a 120%ish jib, also in good shape. the old and dirt furlex is pretty tired but though.  the engine starts right up and runs well even when it's cold, aside from idling high and the "reverse" need some adjustment I'm pretty happy with the engine for the time being. I have a yanmar 2gm20f that needs a rebuild sitting on a stand in my garage that somewhere down the line I'd like to put into the boat but for new I really don't have any issue with the A4. 

when we pulled the rig we inspected the mast step and it looks to be in good order. biggest issue with the boat is the wiring is pretty janky so I just went ahead and stripped it all out and I'm rewiring the boat. beauty of small simple boats, a full rewire is costing me less than $300. the foredeck hatch is pretty chintzy but for now it doesn't leak for for now I'm leaving it be. this won't be an offshore boat anyway. I like the wood interior but there's something of an over abundance, some of it may get painted to help lighten the interior a but, but we'll see how it goes. may just get rid of the head liner and just paint the overhead of the cabin. 

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Glad to hear that you became a Tartan owner. I have had mine for about ten years, and have been sailing it all over the San Francisco Bay. Frisky, has been out in 40+ knot winds often, and  she has managed beautifully. Tartan 30's aren't J-boats, but they handle like a dream as far as I'm concerned. Perfect for  day sails with 3 or 4 people.  I re-powered a number of years ago (the old ferryman died on me).

https://tinyurl.com/se2xwu4

I replaced the ferryman with 16 hp Beta marine diesel and upgraded her standing rigging to 9/32" 1x19 316 Stainless, and added lifelines.

Here she is when I first hauled her out.  The first bit of work I had done was to replace the rudder that had delaminated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzLPbOTdTI0

I'm looking to buy a larger boat soon, and would like to sell her.  Sad to see her go, but If anyone is interested, let me know.

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1978-tartan-tartan-30-7376352/

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