smackdaddy

SailGP 2020

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5 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Please elaborate. Boats are all the same. Did you mean a sponsor logo?

Haha, the same Q crossed my mind, but since I haven't watched the vid I didn't want to ask. 

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13 minutes ago, spamdaddy said:

watch the video and let me know what you think.

don't bother, it's literally 30 seconds of paint booth time lapse

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

don't bother, it's literally 30 seconds of paint booth time lapse

Happy new year another year of Clean showing how much he loves multihulls

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I did watch the video before I posted. Trying to infer what "light a fire" meant in the SD context. In my context could be

A. More controllable wing/foil wind fit lets  sailors use skills to better avail. No one team benefits more since all boats are same so did not think that was it. 

B.  Presence of Ainslie fires testosterone competitive juices?

C. Ineos logo on hull fires survival instincts of other teams to round up money by hook or crook?

D. ????

Dunno why the lack of SD elaboration for SD meaning?

 

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4 hours ago, madboutcats said:

Happy new year another year of Clean showing how much he loves multihulls

Who?

I only pay attention to sailors who matter. 0for2.

 

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31 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

I did watch the video before I posted. Trying to infer what "light a fire" meant in the SD context. In my context could be

A. More controllable wing/foil wind fit lets  sailors use skills to better avail. No one team benefits more since all boats are same so did not think that was it. 

B.  Presence of Ainslie fires testosterone competitive juices?

C. Ineos logo on hull fires survival instincts of other teams to round up money by hook or crook?

D. ????

Dunno why the lack of SD elaboration for SD meaning?

 

C (just not in the snarky way you put it - it's the game)

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19 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

C (just not in the snarky way you put it - it's the game)

Ah I just got the memo that 2020 is a no-snark year. 

Well, the "game" is not *sailing* per SGP's own words. It got redefined and that was not enough so it was transformed into a racing product. Would love to see their focus groups.

 

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12 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Ah I just got the memo that 2020 is a no-snark year. 

Well, the "game" is not *sailing* per SGP's own words. It got redefined and that was not enough so it was transformed into a racing product. Would love to see their focus groups.

 

You still have a real problem with SailGP and I honestly don't get it, Clew.

They have been very clear - they are marketing this league to a broader televised sports audience who associate sailing with, well, what sailing has most always been historically in that collective mind - "slow and boring". SailGP is anything but. Anyone can see that. This doesn't at all take away from these boats being sailboats. But at the same time - they are not "sailboats".

What do the "athletes" in SailGP say they are doing? Sailing...just "redefined".

So, again, I don't really know what your problem is with all this. It's truly perplexing - and I don't really care to analyze it. But I totally agree with the SailGP marketing direction. Whether "purists" agree or not matters not to me...nor to the future of the sport.

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If they had said F1 sailing, the most exciting racing action and athletes you'll see on the water, yadda yadda no problema. 

They change tennis rules, scoring, etc. to make it more audience friendly, but Serena and Naomi and Ash and Rafa and Novak still play tennis. Not "F1 ball smash."

 

My issue is they are dissing "sailing" as boring and grandpa's pastime, or boring old rich guy follies AT THE SAME TIME they are employing buff athletes (not fat old sailors) who came up in sailing and are looking to INSPIRE kids to try sailing cuz it's cool. But for every kid who gets on a SGP minicat, I wonder about the thousand who only have access to "sailboats" and are told  implicitly those are old folk things and boring.

So even if it is good for SGP I wonder if it is a net positive.

 

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Sailboat racing, especially inshore stuff, HAS BEEN BORING AS HELL FOREVER* - to the general public, and even to many sailors. There's no question about that. It's freakin' excruciating to watch compared to virtually any other "sport" save curling (or harness racing, etc.). It's a laughing stock - especially to drunk Irish dudes if you've seen the vid.

SailGP IS sailing, as I think you really know - but it's about as far from boring as Clean is from intelligent and maned. Put an Olympic Finn race on one screen and SailGP on another in a sports pub and see which one draws eyeballs. I'm sure you'll be standing on the bar lecturing everyone that Finn's are not "boring, old folk things" and that they are "fascinating and rich in history" but you won't be heard over the hum of foils screaming along at 50 knots and the huzzahs of raised beers and cheers.

Sorry, Clew, I think your angst is wildly misguided. You're being the protective den mother of a dead pastime in support hose.

*PS - I actually had the balls to start a thread here on this matter 11 years ago...and look where we are now (you're welcome). I obviously had it right even then (as usual). Hell, I even agreed with something Clean said. It was a calendar-marking moment...then he started saying stupid stuff...and I let him off that hook then...but hey...it was a moment...

 

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You clearly have no clue about me. I don't necessarily think those classes are cool but they are a way people have learned fundamentals. I don't even watch free videos of Finn etc. 

But I do appreciate skill, finesse, courage, perseverance. The role of those things in creating world class participants in any class should not be downplayed. Those beer pounding aficionados better have some before they attempt to emulate what they admire.

I am not a racer. I like sailing because it feels good and is satisfying to do. Screaming bogans with raised glasses sometimes don't/aren't.

Screaming bogans get boring really fast. 

So go pound some back with the lads. But watching fast boats nearly miss each other will get repetitive (is already) and then imho to sustain viewer interest people are going to have to argue over who is the best trimmer and why, whether helm or flight control loses races and why, etc. Just like they debate tennis, baseball, football, and probably car racing although I confess that shit is bo-ring as watching fat old folk at Walmart. Look at Survivor. 40 seasons. Personalities, skills, finesse.  SailGP should get Mark Burnett not whatever trendy marketeers they picked.

PS The AC currently has novelty in boat design going for it and infrequent timing.

SailGP wants to roll around 5-6-10 events every year. The boats will  look the same to the bogans every year and so do the crashes,near misses. Maybe it is easy to watch SGP and Daytona loaded, better be because it's the same fan base.

Edited by NeedAClew
PS

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12 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Screaming bogans...

...have made the NFL, FIFA, F1, Nascar, etc. the global behemoths they are today. You can turn your nose up at "the lads" - but they are far more powerful than the linen-panted, blue blazered crowd you (and the AC) seem to want to cater to.

What's funny is I totally agree with you that it's about the personalities, skills, and finesse - which, in reality, SailGP is covering/presenting better than anyone out there right now in this game (VOR had a pretty good start on it - but too late). AC is doing an extremely poor job of this - and we're less than a year out! So they don't get it either.

So, again, I don't care if you like SailGP or not, Clew. I really don't. But support hose are just not part of the kit for this new game. Drunk Irishmen are.

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Just now, smackdaddy said:

...have made the NFL, FIFA, F1, Nascar, etc. the global behemoths they are today. You can turn your nose up at "the lads" - but they are far more powerful than the linen-panted, blue blazered crowd you (and the AC) seem to want to cater to.

What's funny is I totally agree with you that it's about the personalities, skills, and finesse - which, in reality, SailGP is doing better than anyone out there right now in this game (VOR had a pretty good start on it - but too late). AC is doing an extremely poor job of this - and we're less than a year out!

So, again, I don't care if you like SailGP or not, Clew. I really don't. But support hose are just not part of the kit for this new game.

Again, you have no clue about me, you are creating a strawlady persona to scoff at. I don't own linen and really doubt most SA people who like AC fit your imaginary "enemy stereotype."

I like AC because, among other things, it made me want to learn to sail. Where I grew up, it was a rich kid summer pastime at the YC. But I remembered and eventually moved where it was accessible.  And besides the boats were pretty, lol. So was Ted Turner. ;)

I like SailGP very much, no matter how you mistepresent that. I do not like many of the management choices they make and have doubts about the plan. But people often like a sport and dislike the owners. 

And it was YOU who established the strawperson target market as guys screaming at a bar...see above.

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Well, I just go by what you say, Clew. And you have to admit - you've been harshing SailGP for a while now. And you seem to turn your nose up at us "screaming bogans*". Maybe you actually do "like SailGP very much" and all this is just an attempt to get under my skin, I don't know (doesn't really work anyway). But you can't dance on both sides of the floor. That's what I'm getting at.

So, cool, you like SailGP very much. And you're not made of straw. I'm glad we have clarity. Oh...and you're in luck...

1780343409_ScreenShot2020-01-12at10_27_40PM.png.19add97d13ab66a9a10578767d1ee40a.png

*an uncouth or unsophisticated person regarded as being of low social status.

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I harsh the management decisions. And the PR or marketing or influencer social media team.

Have I ever harshed the sailing and shore teams? NO. The tech teams?  The app developers once they finally did android? NO. 

You admittedly came a little later to the party, the first regatta live was not super. I stayed up way past my Geritol time to watch it live .Go back and see. The teams are uneven and the training time adjustments to try to address this are not optimal.   Is saying that harshing? Only in a "no negative statements ever" world where anything but unswerving praise for all aspects of something is called harshing. Or dancing both sides of the floor?!? We differ there.  

I reject the notion that screaming drunks at bars should be the principal target audience. SailGP has broader reach than that. The youth market hopefully is not drunk yet. 

"SailGP: You don't need to be drunk to enjoy it."*TM 

Powerful screaming drunks are not my fave people to be around.  Is that harshing?  Or maybe screaming drunk men just scare me. 

Whatever. Have fun finding things and classes of people to denigrate. Have fun being the most positive SGP booster ever.

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14 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Have fun finding things and classes of people to denigrate. Have fun being the most positive SGP booster ever.

Well, I believe only one of us actually did that in the above exchange. And it wasn't me. But nice try.

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16 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Again, you have no clue about me, you are creating a strawlady persona to scoff at.

straw and false assumptions are literally spam's whole game.  

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It's cool to see SGP sailors like Slingers (and his mates) racing/winning in so many different kinds of boats (Moth, Etchells, M32, etc.). And it's why I take the word of sailors like this as to their assessment of SGP and the F50 over the typical blather around here...

Screen-Shot-2020-01-13-at-3.16.41-PM.png

...I'm sure they apologize for the "offensive" hashtags.

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I'm sad that his SailGP team doesn't pay nearly enough for Slingers' lifestyle.

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16 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'm sad that his SailGP team doesn't pay nearly enough for Slingers' lifestyle.

The nice thing is that he's got the opportunity to change that...with his team.

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33 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

The nice thing is that he's got the opportunity to change that...with his team.

Does Tom own the team?

 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'm sad that his SailGP team doesn't pay nearly enough for Slingers' lifestyle.

Tragic he still has to sail those old boring classes.

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15 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Tragic he still has to sail those old boring classes.

Etchells are a long proven way for top pros to get a free trip to Miami while earning enough to pay for all their christmas presents.

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50 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Tragic he still has to sail those old boring classes.

He obviously doesn't have to.

As for whether a class is "old and boring" - all you need to do is is look at the number of entries - especially youth entries - at the World events to see if it qualifies. I think you'll find that the numbers more than back me up.

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Oh you missed the sarcasm font ;)

I will let you have the last word.

SD: "word"

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DNK's first day out and they hit almost 49 freakin' knots? Wow.

Screen-Shot-2020-01-14-at-11.02.43-PM.pn

These boats are incredible. S2 is going to be awesome.

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Not clear, but it seems Nicolai was driving. And they said the wind was 18-20 knots. So relatively mellow.

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FRA is getting their pieces in place. Bruno is certainly no slouch...

Screen-Shot-2020-01-15-at-8.30.53-PM.png

it will be good to what sponsors they pull on this season.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

They got the Aussie wing trimmer that the US team had.

Who? I haven't looked at the listing?

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4 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

Johnson.

That makes sense. F50 wing trimmers don't grow on trees!

Crew_Photo_6__1___1_.jpg?fm=jpg&fl=progr

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13 hours ago, NeedAClew said:

They got the Aussie wing trimmer that the US team had.

The team roster looks like the ill-fated Vestas campaign less CN. Finally there's a team to observe. 

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There are 2 races going on with SailGP - one on the water and the other off the water.

Here is first and second in the latter...

1607655675_ScreenShot2020-01-18at1_27_02PM.png.2e1d9e0ef5d9ba420c0961cc5735f2ee.png

1862526421_ScreenShot2020-01-18at1_26_37PM.png.55b5b7fd69997a805fbba0b6cfc51d8a.png

The other teams seem to be lagging!

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While certain 75 footers are falling all over themselves like drunken schoolgirls and certain youth events are just animated pipedreams, you have this...

Screen-Shot-2020-01-19-at-8.42.43-PM.png

The future is already happening.

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On 1/18/2020 at 2:30 PM, smackdaddy said:

There are 2 races going on with SailGP - one on the water and the other off the water.

Here is first and second in the latter...

1607655675_ScreenShot2020-01-18at1_27_02PM.png.2e1d9e0ef5d9ba420c0961cc5735f2ee.png

1862526421_ScreenShot2020-01-18at1_26_37PM.png.55b5b7fd69997a805fbba0b6cfc51d8a.png

The other teams seem to be lagging!

Yeah those dorks still have bought into the "for your country" hype and have their flags bigger than whatever sponsors they have.

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On 1/17/2020 at 2:43 AM, Rennmaus said:

The team roster looks like the ill-fated Vestas campaign less CN. Finally there's a team to observe. 

Plus razzy, he is a fucking stud.

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13 hours ago, Dr. Spam, Ph.D said:

 

 

The future is already happening.

 

Bora and Bear's first Moth Camp c. 2013

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30 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If you are going to be in Sydney Feb 17 to 27 you can get tickets for the SGP AUS base tour. They run 3 a day, take public ferry to Cockatoo Is. 

https://sailgp.com/races/sydney/get-tickets/behind-the-scenes-tours/

This looks so much like all that's dislikeable in F1 ("Pit lane garages"? Really??? Lol!). The openness and inclusiveness, even at high prestige events, make sailing regattas something very special, especially compared to motorsport events. That was until Larry came along...

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I’m going to be watching in NY. It should be exciting

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15 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I’m going to be watching in NY. It should be exciting

If we end up there, I'll give you a shout!

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Though I'm sure it's only Clean who is unable to understand, I'll be a bit more clear on this...

14 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

While certain 75 footers are falling all over themselves like drunken schoolgirls and certain youth events are just animated pipedreams, you have this...

Screen-Shot-2020-01-19-at-8.42.43-PM.png

The future is already happening.

The Youth America's Cup is still a 3D animated pipedream; a "youth sailing program" of questionable format and pedigree with no clear pathway or future. It's a dead-end, victim to the whims of whoever wins the cup.

Inspire is precisely the opposite....as you can clearly see by the fact it's happening right in front of your eyes.

I'm sure even Bora and Bear understand what I'm saying.

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33 minutes ago, Dr. Spam, Ph.D said:

Though I'm sure it's only Clean who is unable to understand, I'll be a bit more clear on this...

The Youth America's Cup is still a 3D animated pipedream; a "youth sailing program" of questionable format and pedigree with no clear pathway or future. It's a dead-end, victim to the whims of whoever wins the cup.

Inspire is precisely the opposite....as you can clearly see by the fact it's happening right in front of your eyes.

I'm sure even Bora and Bear understand what I'm saying.

I don't pay attention to the ancillary regattas, and especially the 'youth' shit.  When Russell created the youth AC, it was just a lip service thing designed to disarm the folks who showed up at SF planning commission meetings to complain that taxpayers shouldn't be paying for billionaire games.  "But look, we are providing for the children, and maybe some SF kids can even be in the YOUTH AMERICA'S CUP WOW.

I am not sure what can be 'clearly seen' for Inspire, I have not seen any numbers from them.   Maybe it will provide opportunities for great numbers of children to learn high performance sailing.  I doubt it, but maybe.  They don't have much time though: One more year and most of the budget is gone.

 

 

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2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

If we end up there, I'll give you a shout!

I’d like to meet you and the boys this summer!

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I'll keep you posted s4b.

In the mean time - any Aussies (or their kids) around here doing Inspire?

Screen-Shot-2020-01-20-at-2.46.17-PM.png

 

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5 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

I'll keep you posted s4b.

In the mean time - any Aussies (or their kids) around here doing Inspire?

 

 



Successful candidates will be notified in due course. Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee that you'll be offered a place as we often receive more applications than we can provide for. Ten final applicants will be selected to take part. Good luck!
 

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Well Slingers says he's told they need sponsor this season or do not have season 3 secured. I put my spin on it in the Circus, have at it here on how this is just what sailing needs to inspire youth. Especially Aussie youth. Tom et al did a national SGP trophy tour to inspire kids.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/225814/Just-how-hard-can-it-be

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I've always been told by my downunder friends that Aussies make Scots look like spendthrifts.

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30 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Well Slingers says he's told they need sponsor this season or do not have season 3 secured. I put my spin on it in the Circus, have at it here on how this is just what sailing needs to inspire youth. Especially Aussie youth. Tom et al did a national SGP trophy tour to inspire kids.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/225814/Just-how-hard-can-it-be

Rules is rules. RC was very clear from the beginning what this would be about...

Quote

While both Ellison and Coutts have a passion for sailing and want to see it prosper, this is not a charitable operation. Commercial success is a guiding factor in its establishment and the six teams will eventually “evolve into a franchise model”.

“The objective is to make these teams into a business because that’s the way it becomes sustainable,” explained Coutts. “We want to allow teams to build branding and become profitable.”

As I showed above, 2 teams have gotten there (as well as ESP it seems). The other teams need to the same - both in terms of sponsorship and the nationality rules.

If AUS can't find $7M/yr in the corprorate cushions to fund one of the best sailing teams on the planet in the top-tier league on the planet - then I don't know what to say...except that's on Australia, not LERC.

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

lol

@MR.CLEAN  Your calibration of the boredom/pursestrings mechanism is exactly right. :)

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55 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

@MR.CLEAN  Your calibration of the boredom/pursestrings mechanism is exactly right. :)

Is it? Let's take things one piece at a time...where was it stated that LE was going to fund THE TEAMS THEMSELVES for 5 years? I've seen reports like this one from an article prior to the launch last year:

Quote

Start-up sports leagues often run out of funding before they have time to develop a fan base or a profitable business model (see: AAF), but SailGP - an annual, global sailing league founded in 2018 - won’t have that issue; Oracle founder Larry Ellison has made a commitment to underwrite its first 5 seasons.

But again, that says nothing about exactly what is being underwritten - and certainly doesn't specify the teams. Remember, there are far more costs associated with the endeavor than just the teams. Where are you getting the specifics on which you're basing your claims?

Remember, they have been very, very clear since the earliest days that THE TEAMS would need to be self-sustaining. This from October 2018:

Quote

While both Ellison and Coutts have a passion for sailing and want to see it prosper, this is not a charitable operation. Commercial success is a guiding factor in its establishment and the six teams will eventually “evolve into a franchise model”.

“The objective is to make these teams into a business because that’s the way it becomes sustainable,” explained Coutts. “We want to allow teams to build branding and become profitable.”

So, I'm happy to look at any evidence you can provide that proves your point - but I've not seen such specifics. And Clean has long claimed to know a hell of a lot of things. Most of which usually turn out to be wrong.

Regardless, it certainly seems LE is still funding a good chunk of this endeavor - for the developing teams especially. On the other hand, we've apparently already got almost half the teams fully sponsored for multiple years. With that kind of demand - just as Slingers points out - why would you NOT put more pressure on non-development teams like AUS and USA...and even JPN? As I said, if there's no financial interest from their country, that's on their country. SailGP is just giving them a chance they've never had before. And that's good.

You've gotta pay to play. That's professional sports.

So, I'm happy to consider any evidence you can provide to back up your claims. But I really don't see the big deal here.

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Like you have said, you came late to the party and maybe you did not go read the early news and interviews. Here is one with Russell himself saying Larry was fully bankrolling SailGP, as the league becomes more financially viable a franchise model will be adopted but not forvthe first five years. See "Where's the money coming from"

 And then Russell says " We'll be very focused the first five years. Larry Ellison has underwritten the whole thing--you couldn't  do it without that underwrite. That allows us sufficient time to build this in a way that we, frankly, believe has a high chance of commercial success."

https://www.sportspromedia.com/quick_fire_questions/sailgp-americas-cup-russell-coutts-interview

What is it about WHOLE THING you don't  understand?

It was whole thing 5 years. Now 2.  The @MR.CLEANcalibration based on historical funding data.

Australia historically has had little couch change for sailing. Maybe it was a business error to have an Australian team? But wait, he had all those Australians who won and kept the Cup so he could keep it in his media room, and that nationality thing...now being relaxed, I note. 

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19 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Like you have said, you came late to the party and maybe you did not go read the early news and interviews. Here is one with Russell himself saying Larry was fully bankrolling SailGP, as the league becomes more financially viable a franchise model will be adopted but not forvthe first five years. See "Where's the money coming from"

 And then Russell says " We'll be very focused the first five years. Larry Ellison has underwritten the whole thing--you couldn't  do it without that underwrite. That allows us sufficient time to build this in a way that we, frankly, believe has a high chance of commercial success."

https://www.sportspromedia.com/quick_fire_questions/sailgp-americas-cup-russell-coutts-interview

What is it about WHOLE THING you don't  understand?

It was whole thing 5 years. Now 2.  The @MR.CLEANcalibration based on historical funding data.

Australia historically has had little couch change for sailing. Maybe it was a business error to have an Australian team? But wait, he had all those Australians who won and kept the Cup so he could keep it in his media room, and that nationality thing...now being relaxed, I note. 

LE did underwrite the whole thing...and he is still underwriting most of it. Sorry but I think you're reading things into what's being said in these early articles without an understanding of how business works. The article you posted that you now seem to be preaching as gospel said this:

Quote

Originally, the plan was to allow the teams five years to secure their financial success. That subsequently got reduced to three. Now it would seem two is the number.

"It would seem."

Again, the RC article I pointed you to above came out a month prior to the article you just posted. So I don't know who is actually "late to the party" here. More importantly, both things RC said above can be true at the same time.

Look, hysterical blathering aside, the bottom line is this - if the demand for "franchising" these teams is already there as mentioned in your Slingers article and as is obvious judging by INEOS and Rockwall jumping in for multi-year commitments - do you really expect SailGP to say no to them simply because LE was willing to subsidize in the beginning - but now don't need to? Surely you're more intelligent than that. For instance take this sentence from your article:

Quote

In the interim, efforts to reduce operational costs for all 18-member teams will see the sharing of personnel and centralised services in crucial areas such as design, shore logistics and equipment transportation, as well as certain business and commercial functions.

You do understand how that model must shift from a business perspective as new sponsors/teams come in? And this is just one small piece. Also, do you have any idea what kind of other sponsorship talks have been going on in the background that might also shift this playing field. I seriously doubt it.

If this is all you got, you and Clean are desperate here.

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It depends what your definition  of "is" is.  

I am not desperate. I hope no sailors who believed they had up to 5 years to be on self funded teams are desperate.

I know how business works. Guess you are the guy who ups the quota right before the end of the quarter so as not to have to pay bonuses. You fit right in with Larry.

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2 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

It depends what your definition  of "is" is.  

I am not desperate. I hope no sailors who believed they had up to 5 years to be on self funded teams are desperate.

In light of the 2018 stories we've linked above, if they actually believed that - they weren't paying attention then, and certainly aren't paying attention now. They should be desperate to be a part of this. It's taking off...with or without them...my team included.

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Here's what you guys need to get your shiny heads around from that Slingers article...

LE is STILL apparently FULLY UNDERWRITING the team that won the whole freakin' thing and took home the $1M winning check!

How on earth do you expect that approach to be "fair" to the other development teams if it continues for the next 4 freakin' years? And with other teams wanting in!! You guys would be howling about that too!!!! And you'd be right!

So, I'm sorry, I think you're both being ridiculous - as always. SailGP is becoming financially viable WAY ahead of schedule, much to your chagrin. And it appears the country of Australia might let its premier global sailing team that just won it all simply die.

THAT'S the story here (and what that article is actually about if you have half a brain). And that's on Australia.

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Okay, enough kindergarten for today. Back to the racing...

DEN is in full scramble mode. It's going to be really fun seeing how they do in Sydney...

Screen-Shot-2020-01-20-at-7.39.37-PM.png

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If I am always ridiculous why bother replying?

If I am always ridiculous why do you ever upvote any of my posts?

I respond because we rotate and it's my night to watch you.

Look, if the circumstances, criteria, tranche benchmarks, variability in subsidy duration were all clearly spelled out to the team members when they accepted employment and made the commitment, fine. But sounds like that was not the case. So that is imho unfair. Even if it's just business. Given that it is Australia, one reasonably might expect that team to have one of the harder times getting funded. So they might reasonably have expected more than 2 years. 

So what other teams do you see wanting in? And who funds them? Spozed to be 10. And with only one per country...unless they bag that. They already are allowing one foreign sailor on the non development teams. Maybe they can parcel the Aussies out to the Russian, Oman teams. They could probably get multiple Russian boats, ironically.

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40 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If I am always ridiculous why bother replying?

If I am always ridiculous why do you ever upvote any of my posts?

I respond because we rotate and it's my night to watch you.

Look, if the circumstances, criteria, tranche benchmarks, variability in subsidy duration were all clearly spelled out to the team members when they accepted employment and made the commitment, fine. But sounds like that was not the case. So that is imho unfair. Even if it's just business. Given that it is Australia, one reasonably might expect that team to have one of the harder times getting funded. So they might reasonably have expected more than 2 years. 

So what other teams do you see wanting in? And who funds them? Spozed to be 10. And with only one per country...unless they bag that. They already are allowing one foreign sailor on the non development teams. Maybe they can parcel the Aussies out to the Russian, Oman teams. They could probably get multiple Russian boats, ironically.

I said you're being ridiculous. And your outburst above shows exactly what I mean. Sometimes you have very good insight. And I respect and respond to that. Other times you don't - at all. Your hatred of LERC and wish for failure almost always poisons your viewpoints - just like Clean;s. You are strung out between two audiences and lack objectivity. And I respond to that too. So you're hard to take seriously at times.

Your fourth paragraph is the nub of it all. You don't know what was in these agreements any more than Clean does. You're drawing all these crazy conclusions from freakin' news articles...and just running with them. Even these articles themselves have more nuance than you are giving them credit for. That's what I've been trying to point out.

As for AUS - no, I don't agree at all that they should be given more time because "it is Australia". If what you're talking about is the fires - okay, maybe. If what you're talking about is AUS's apparent historical disinterest in funding sailing teams (which is what the article seems to be hitting on) - then no. Absolutely not. For the reasons I mention above - they play on the same field as everyone else (except the dev teams) or they go home. That is the antithesis of "unfair". I feel the same about USA. This isn't a charity...nor should it be.

And I say that knowing full well that it would be a huge blow to SailGP. But, like everyone else, SailGP's business models also simply needs to sink or swim. That's precisely why I respect this pressure. The are committed to the outcome either way.

As for the other teams, NZL will want in soon (after they lose the cup). And that will be hilarious. I also think ITA will want in - and maybe SUI and/or SWE. Then you've got countries like BRA, ARG, etc. who could possibly pull it together. I'd love to see the Graels come in.

Again, we are talking $7M...not $140M. I think it's possible that by season 5 we might see more than 10 teams.

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If I wanted SGP to fail, I would not be all critical and contemptuous of the management actions they are taking. I think some of those are not going to work out and thus since I want SGP to succeed I say when I think they are not good things.

But whatever. You just do you.  In 5 years the results will be known.

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1 hour ago, NeedAClew said:

 

 it's my night to watch you.

 

I have his therapist on speed dial.  She wants me to call her when he exceeds 4 posts per hour. It's a sign.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Spam, Ph.D said:

I think it's possible that by season 5 we might see more than 10 teams.

 

couldn't you fit in another qualifier or two?
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51 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

If I wanted SGP to fail, I would not be all critical and contemptuous of the management actions they are taking. I think some of those are not going to work out and thus since I want SGP to succeed I say when I think they are not good things.

But whatever. You just do you.  In 5 years the results will be known.

Okay. That's an interesting take on things. Your critical, contemptuous positivity went over my head. Heh.

As you say, we'll just have to watch it play out.

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Spam, Ph.D said:

 

As you say, we'll just have to watch it play out.

We might, maybe, possibly? Backtracking isn't just a river in egypt.

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Hmm - seems to be a little BS-colored douche puddle in my thread. Let's Clean that up...

source.gif

Thanks Rosey. Heh.

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Well, ESP is officially on the boards too now! Any Spain fans around here yet?

Screen-Shot-2020-01-20-at-10.05.50-PM-1.

My Spanish is a bit rusty, but they seem to think this "Sail - HehPeh" (love it) is pretty much the most spectacular racing in the world. Por supuesto!

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Smack,

By throwing shit all the time on AC, you are just insulting the future,

The problem, that it is not your future

It is the future of the crews sailing the 50, you are insulting.

Your strategy is clear, if all these talents were involved in AC campaign, you will organize SailGP with 420 or laser.

So it is not surprising to see you, digging a gap, as wide as possible, between sailgp and AC.

A crappy strategy to secure your talents, not really a long term alignment of interests.

Just looking forward, if the funding is not there, these guy will have to look for another sailing opportunity, while you will have cornerized them.

Beware of the coming mutiny.

Be careful too, Amed's boat or Flipper, has removed its front carbon pole in order to kebab your rectum asap.

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2 hours ago, Erwankerauzen said:

Smack,

By throwing shit all the time on AC, you are just insulting the future,

The problem, that it is not your future

It is the future of the crews sailing the 50, you are insulting.

Your strategy is clear, if all these talents were involved in AC campaign, you will organize SailGP with 420 or laser.

So it is not surprising to see you, digging a gap, as wide as possible, between sailgp and AC.

A crappy strategy to secure your talents, not really a long term alignment of interests.

Just looking forward, if the funding is not there, these guy will have to look for another sailing opportunity, while you will have cornerized them.

Beware of the coming mutiny.

Be careful too, Amed's boat or Flipper, has removed its front carbon pole in order to kebab your rectum asap.

First, wanker, you're wrong. If the AC continues down its current path you'll never have more than 2-4 teams competing...which will, as we see now, consist of fewer and fewer events. Therefore, again as we're seeing now, it will provide fewer and fewer benefits to the broader sailing professional community who just want to sail at the top level. THAT'S the future I'm insulting, because it needs to change. I don't need to "dig a gap" any wider than $7m to $140m. ETNZ dug that one themselves.

I think the money will be there for SailGP - and even in its very first season it's ALREADY set up to provide FAR more opportunity to professional and up-and-coming sailors. IF, as you say, it does fail - it's actually ETNZ and its AC that has "cornerized" all these sailors - not SailGP.

As for what ETNZ wants to do with the sprit from Te Ahmed - that's a bit disturbing. But here's a little secret that you might want to tell your Kiwi pals - they actually removed that sprit because it was getting damaged and doing damage to the boat in all the faceplants they've kept having. I find it funny how the guys around here think it was a "tactical" move.

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You intellectual dishonnesty is crystal clear, you mention """if the AC continues ...

just like if I addressed the topic and you are answering .... a red-neck trick

7 millions, not accounting the hundreds spent by AC teams for the 2017 Cup in order to achieve the boats you are using at sailgp now.

 

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Rome Kirby did great at foiling midwinters in Key Largo. Cool guy, no ego, gracious at tight crossings on the race course, tending to his foiler like everyone else.

Great location and weather for the event, too. 

Zero interest in the personal discussions here. If you think a post is bs, ignore it, or downvote it. Replying feeds it.

 

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44 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

Rome Kirby did great at foiling midwinters in Key Largo. Cool guy, no ego, gracious at tight crossings on the race course, tending to his foiler like everyone else.

Great location and weather for the event, too. 

Zero interest in the personal discussions here. If you think a post is bs, ignore it, or downvote it. Replying feeds it.

 

Martin - have you heard anything more about USA's progress with sponsors. I totally agree with you about Rome and the entire team actually. They are all great guys (avg age is 26, which is a marketing sweet-spot). I'm just hoping they can get some real traction on the funding front. For example, I've not heard anything on them getting an actual CEO like the other teams have done to focus on the business aspects of the team.

They've gotten some really good coverage like this from Men's Journal...

I hope they get sorted. The clock is ticking!

(PS - people should really have a listen at what Rome is saying.)

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I could be wrong, but there might be a very good reason why things are quiet on the sponsorship front for USA...

Screen-Shot-2020-01-21-at-8.01.27-PM.png

Is someone saving this team for himself? I could certainly see the logic!

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They better win.

If he has Oracle put corporate sponsorship money into the team (like they do for tennis, did for OTAUS) having the Australians that won for him in AC beat his US SGPteam with their Australia team would not sit well. Or the Softbank Aussie orvthe OTAUS Brit, for that matter. 

They better win.

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48 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

They better win.

If he has Oracle put corporate sponsorship money into the team (like they do for tennis, did for OTAUS) having the Australians that won for him in AC beat his US SGPteam with their Australia team would not sit well. Or the Softbank Aussie orvthe OTAUS Brit, for that matter. 

They better win.

Honestly, I think you've got it wrong again.

I think this really is a longer-term effort to build up sailing in the US. This US team is obviously a very young team. And if I'm right, Inspire is the more short-term focus - via that team. Therefore, chronicling the development of the USA team and dovetailing that into the Inspire effort is kind of brilliant.

If that's the play - there's time.

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1 hour ago, smackdaddy said:

Honestly, I think you've got it wrong again.

I think this really is a longer-term effort to build up sailing in the US. This US team is obviously a very young team. And if I'm right, Inspire is the more short-term focus - via that team. Therefore, chronicling the development of the USA team and dovetailing that into the Inspire effort is kind of brilliant.

If that's the play - there's time.

I hope I am. Wouldn't it be nice if there really is a long term commitment. 

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2 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

I could be wrong, but there might be a very good reason why things are quiet on the sponsorship front for USA...

Screen-Shot-2020-01-21-at-8.01.27-PM.png

Is someone saving this team for himself? I could certainly see the logic!

Anyone who knows won't tell. Business sponsorship isn't school playground kiss and tell.

Things get announced when ready and fully cooked. 

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Smack,

Just have a look at the front page of your prefered website you use to advertize your business.

I think you forgot a golden rule

The 3 fundemental laws of Mother Nature also apply to business world

1-Symbiosis

2-Commensality

3-Parasitism

While I am ready to give your boss some credit for both the great media coverage I discovered in 2013, and for these fabulous cat AC 72 and AC 50.

(While these boat were born with Larry, these have been grown up with some Kiwi & Aussie talents.)

I am afraid that among the 3 above mentionned options, you have choosen the 3rd one.

Only the Future will tell to which extend it has been insulted.

I would think, time is ripe for you to stop throwing shit, and suss out a symbiotic solution for the future of your business.

One can observe:

Ashby rules the A-Cat,

Slingsy rules the Moth, 

Aussies & Kiwis rules the waves. 

and Smack rules the "sh.." fan.

 

Hard work ahead for you good luck.

Post Scriptum:  Your picture above, is not a red-neck trick,  it is a cost-effective solution.

"Continues comme ça mon grand, pour moi, tu es un bon client":D

Wanker

 

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34 minutes ago, Erwankerauzen said:

Smack,

Just have a look at the front page of your prefered website you use to advertize your business.

I think you forgot a golden rule

The 3 fundemental laws of Mother Nature also apply to business world

1-Symbiosis

2-Commensality

3-Parasitism

While I am ready to give your boss some credit for both the great media coverage I discovered in 2013, and for these fabulous cat AC 72 and AC 50.

(While these boat were born with Larry, these have been grown up with some Kiwi & Aussie talents.)