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Svanen

Canada’s new tax on yachts

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Remember when the US did that back in the 80s?  The only repercussion- since the dollar was high value compared to European currencies, folks bought European boats.  The US boat building industry collapsed.  Who was hurt?  The average joe who worked building boats, not rich people.

Idiots.

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The only guy hurt will be Grandpa that saved for retirement, wants a motorcoach to see the country and now gets whacked 10%. 

Its only for non commercial planes, boats and cars, so rich guy just buys the new boat through his company, coporate asset.  Its another fuck joe average tax.

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3 hours ago, crankcall said:

The only guy hurt will be Grandpa that saved for retirement...Its another fuck joe average tax.

Quite right. Taxes change behavior, (or behaviour for our Canadian friends).  The really wealthy can pretty easily arrange their affairs to avoid “luxury” taxes.  But the working stiffs involved in designing, building, manufacturing, selling, distributing and servicing said luxury items take it up the arse. 

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If I heard it correctly, that was not the current government led by the Spender in Chief. The statement came from the Green Party leader Elizabeth May, who said they would tax luxury goods over $100K at 10%. The Greens currently have 2 seats, both from my area. As more of their platform becomes known, they will not go far, IMO. This is a wake up call as to how radical they may be, even more so than the other loonie left, the NDP. They are best remembered for their accountant stealing $$ from the Nanaimo bingo folks, Dave Barrett saying " What's a million " Glen Clark and the ferry fiasco, ICBC which has been over charging since 1972. A local boat designer told the Govt. the catamaran ferries would not perform as planned, as they were too heavy. Glen Clark bad mouthed the designer. Glen later lost in court. The larger conventional ferries, were supposed to be bigger and heavier, and more fuel efficient. They are not. They use a bunch more fuel than planned, and are now being switched to natural gas, of which BC has plenty. Might still be in the ground. 

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It's unlikely to actually happen. One of Trudeau's virtues is that he doesn't actually follow through on his loonier promises.   

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16 minutes ago, Unkle Krusty said:

If I heard it correctly, that was not the current government led by the Spender in Chief. The statement came from the Green Party leader Elizabeth May, who said they would tax luxury goods over $100K at 10%. The Greens currently have 2 seats, both from my area. As more of their platform becomes known, they will not go far, IMO. This is a wake up call as to how radical they may be, even more so than the other loonie left, the NDP. They are best remembered for their accountant stealing $$ from the Nanaimo bingo folks, Dave Barrett saying " What's a million " Glen Clark and the ferry fiasco, ICBC which has been over charging since 1972. A local boat designer told the Govt. the catamaran ferries would not perform as planned, as they were too heavy. Glen Clark bad mouthed the designer. Glen later lost in court. The larger conventional ferries, were supposed to be bigger and heavier, and more fuel efficient. They are not. They use a bunch more fuel than planned, and are now being switched to natural gas, of which BC has plenty. Might still be in the ground. 

Definitely the Liberals.  Page 79 of the red ink book.

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Trudeau has just in a speech offered up a $2,000tax credit to low income families to go camping, to teach children about the environment. 

Only Ontario guys may get this, but have you seen the camp sites available under the Gardiner expressway? Kids will learn the grownups need a lot of tarps and needles to camp. 

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Kids will learn the grownups need a lot of tarps and needles to camp. 

Sounds like the SF and LA style of camping, with the assorted broken furniture and a good sized midden to go with. 

 

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The laughable thing about the camping tax credit is that it will include Via Rail tickets to get to the campground. Thus very patient low income families will benefit. 

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4 hours ago, spankoka said:

It's unlikely to actually happen. One of Trudeau's virtues is that he doesn't actually follow through on his loonier promises.   

But Trudeau did not say it. Elizabeth May said it. I will stand corrected if you can prove otherwise. Our spender in chief has followed thru on his borrowing to prosperity program. He said we would have deficits for a while, and a balanced budget by 2020. He is off by about $20 billion or more per year. So now, being a senior, do I vote for what I think is best for the country, or who will give me the most free stuff. The Govt. does not care who gets to pay off the debt, so why should I?

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31 minutes ago, Unkle Krusty said:

But Trudeau did not say it. Elizabeth May said it. I will stand corrected if you can prove otherwise. Our spender in chief has followed thru on his borrowing to prosperity program. He said we would have deficits for a while, and a balanced budget by 2020. He is off by about $20 billion or more per year. So now, being a senior, do I vote for what I think is best for the country, or who will give me the most free stuff. The Govt. does not care who gets to pay off the debt, so why should I?

Our Chief Laser sailor and his party is also taxing the evil FB. Imagine that, a dinghy sailor taxing yachts.:angry:

" OTTAWA — Federal Liberals plan to tax Netflix, Google, and Facebook, as well as the rich who buy private jets and yachts, as a way of offsetting even larger structural deficits, the party announced Sunday. "

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/liberal-platform-2019_ca_5d90e795e4b0e9e7604e7bab

Open this photo in gallery: YSJNV24YYRD37OXTFJ6LHM45S4

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34 minutes ago, Unkle Krusty said:

But Trudeau did not say it. Elizabeth May said it. I will stand corrected if you can prove otherwise. Our spender in chief has followed thru on his borrowing to prosperity program. He said we would have deficits for a while, and a balanced budget by 2020. He is off by about $20 billion or more per year. So now, being a senior, do I vote for what I think is best for the country, or who will give me the most free stuff. The Govt. does not care who gets to pay off the debt, so why should I?

Here is the link.  Page 79.

https://2019.liberal.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/292/2019/09/Forward-A-real-plan-for-the-middle-class.pdf

 

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Not this shit again. It was done in the U.S. and industry imploded. Buyers said: Screw that - I'm not going to pay a luxury tax. So they didn't; stayed away from boat a boat in droves! Afterall - nobody "needs" a pleasurecraft. Food, cancer treatment etc but a toy? Nope. WTF were they thinking! 

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5 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

The curious thing is how camping is perceived by some now.

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/no-camping-isnt-a-racist-activity/

scholars in the leisure and recreation sphere have begun to make arguments that activities like camping are racist or sexist.

I'd suggest that campers begin to make arguments that scholars are PC morans.

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4 hours ago, Unkle Krusty said:

But Trudeau did not say it. Elizabeth May said it. I will stand corrected if you can prove otherwise. Our spender in chief has followed thru on his borrowing to prosperity program. He said we would have deficits for a while, and a balanced budget by 2020. He is off by about $20 billion or more per year. So now, being a senior, do I vote for what I think is best for the country, or who will give me the most free stuff. The Govt. does not care who gets to pay off the debt, so why should I?

Inflation will pay off the debt.

It's too big to do it any other way, just like in the USA.

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44 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Inflation will pay off the debt.

It's too big to do it any other way, just like in the USA.

Yes. An old plan. GDP is currently exceeding the rate of debt increase. I am a fiscal conservative, and against debt.

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1 hour ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Yes. An old plan. GDP is currently exceeding the rate of debt increase. I am a fiscal conservative, and against debt.

And as long as the GDP rate exceeds the rate of debt increase, it is not debt.  It working along the wealth line.  And I am a fiscal conservative.  There is value to that bridge you just bought and the university you just paid for.  The value of the military tank.  That is another story where you can go both ways.

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1 hour ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Thank you. I am fairly confident he will not get reelected.

I just cant see a conservative government in any scenario.  I believe there will be a coalition, even with Conservatives having the most seats. The conservatives don't do coalition well.

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1 hour ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Thank you. I am fairly confident he will not get reelected.

Do you really think Scheer will beat him? Even if he squeaks a plurality, which is doubtful with the Peoples Party bleeding off right wing votes, there is no-one for him to team up with to create a majority.

Joe Clark redux.

He even walks funny like Joe.

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1 hour ago, Unkle Krusty said:

Yes. An old plan. GDP is currently exceeding the rate of debt increase. I am a fiscal conservative, and against debt.

Nothing wrong with debt - prudently managed.

And increasing the debt in good economic times is not prudent.

It's Trumpian.

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I'm guessing my own MP, Joyce Murray must hear lots of fun stories about partying with JT back in the day when she is doorknocking in Kits and Point Grey. There may be more examples of JT behaving badly aside from the Kokanee grope and the blackface thing yet to emerge. People in remote communities will be surprised to find out that their aircraft are a luxury! 

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18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Nothing wrong with debt - prudently managed.

And increasing the debt in good economic times is not prudent.

It's Trumpian.

I would argue debt used well can be prudent in good and bad economic times. It depends on what it is used for. If debt is used to cover a gap between current revenue and current expenses and it is not a recession...that is a problem (bigly). If it is used to fund long term expenditures that enable greater future revenue (i.e. grow GPD to tax) then it may be sound - especially in periods of historically low public sector borrowing costs. Things like investment in education, infrastructure, pure R&D...may be prudent even if debt financed during an expansion. I'd rather my goverment invested in infrastructre at current 1.3% than say at the 9.7% in the 90s (10 year bond).

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You should look up who ran up the most debt in the last 60 years - it's all conservative governments.

Then when they are in opposition they scream about the debt, only to forget all about it when they are in power again

Funnily enough the provincial party with the best economic record re: surpluses is the NDP, across all provinces!

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Also I wouldn't say the liberals are leftish at all, they are milquetoast corporate centralists at best

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On 10/1/2019 at 2:42 PM, Tax Man said:

Thanks for that. Same page they talk about a home tax on non-Canadians. So much for that place the bride liked on the Bras D'Or. 

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The home tax on non-Canadians that BC has is being challenged right now in a BC court as a violation of the principle of equal treatment under the law. I think the challenge has a good chance as Singh v. Canada has already determined that the Charter of Rights applies to non-citizens. Ingonish is about the most beautiful place I have ever been, and hey-the hydrofoil was invented there. 

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On 10/1/2019 at 5:06 PM, Maxx Baqustae said:

Not this shit again. It was done in the U.S. and industry imploded. Buyers said: Screw that - I'm not going to pay a luxury tax. So they didn't; stayed away from boat a boat in droves! Afterall - nobody "needs" a pleasurecraft. Food, cancer treatment etc but a toy? Nope. WTF were they thinking! 

Too true.

Canadians in the market for a new boat will either pass on the whole idea, or register - and base -  it in another jurisdiction. Local boat brokers, marinas and associated small businesses will suffer.

If nothing else, the Liberals should at least be consistent and apply their new luxury tax to second homes: which are morally indistinguishable from planes, boats, RVs and sports cars. But of course too many voters actually own, or aspire to own, cottages.

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11 minutes ago, spankoka said:

The home tax on non-Canadians that BC has is being challenged right now in a BC court as a violation of the principle of equal treatment under the law. I think the challenge has a good chance as Singh v. Canada has already determined that the Charter of Rights applies to non-citizens. Ingonish is about the most beautiful place I have ever been, and hey-the hydrofoil was invented there. 

It's not on non Canadians, its on anyone who doesnt live here and most people in BC really like it.

Basically if you have more than one house and you don't live full time in your second one and don't rent it, you get a 2% tax on it (though maybe more if non Canadian)

It's had a great effect on rents which have finally stabilised and even took some of the air out of the housing bubble.

 

As a bonus the local Victoria paper is full of whinging boomers who own multiple million+ dollar houses (that they bought for virtually nothing years ago) crying about the tax. They don't get much sympathy since most younger people in Victoria are either in a roomshare situation or living with parents

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5 minutes ago, Svanen said:

Too true.

Canadians in the market for a new boat will either pass on the whole idea, or register - and base -  it in another jurisdiction. Local boat brokers, marinas and associated small businesses will suffer.

If nothing else, the Liberals should at least be consistent and apply their new luxury tax to second homes: which are morally indistinguishable from planes, boats, RVs and sports cars. But of course too many voters actually own, or aspire to own, cottages.

How many people are buying new 100k+ boats anyway? I know a ton of people with boats and they were all second hand and well under 100k

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3 minutes ago, alctel said:

It's not on non Canadians, its on anyone who doesnt live here and most people in BC really like it.

It does not matter how many people like it if the court says it is contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. 

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6 minutes ago, spankoka said:

It does not matter how many people like it if the court says it is contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. 

Why would it be though? The tax applies to anyone with a second home they let sit empty

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This mainly affects dealers as they need to report values correctly. Whereas private sales you can take some cash & get under the threshold. 

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2 hours ago, alctel said:

You should look up who ran up the most debt in the last 60 years - it's all conservative governments.

Then when they are in opposition they scream about the debt, only to forget all about it when they are in power again

Funnily enough the provincial party with the best economic record re: surpluses is the NDP, across all provinces!

They've never run a legitimate surplus here.

Faked it and lied about it but never actually had a surplus.

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4 hours ago, alctel said:

Why would it be though? The tax applies to anyone with a second home they let sit empty

Here is the issue, the provincial website says this; " The speculation and vacancy tax rate varies depending on the owner’s tax residency and whether the owner is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada, or a member of a satellite family.

By levying the highest tax rate on foreign owners and satellite families (those who earn a majority of income outside the province and pay little to no income tax in B.C.), the speculation and vacancy tax is a way to make sure these property owners are paying their fair share in taxes." 

But yet the charter says this; "Everyone has the right to equality before the law and to equal protection of the law without discrimination because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age or sex."

Singh v. Canada makes it explicit that Charter rights apply to non-citizens; 

                  " Per Dickson C.J. and Lamer and Wilson JJ.: Appellants, in the determination of their claims, are entitled to assert the protection of s. 7  of the Charter  which guarantees "everyone ... the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice". The term "everyone" in s. 7  includes every person physically present in Canada and by virtue of such presence amenable to Canadian law. "

Ergo; "depending on the owner’s tax residency and whether the owner is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada" would seem to be problematic. 

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Spankoka, I see what you are saying - interesting.

Wouldn't applying it to tax though also make progressive tax bands illegal though? As they are applied at different rates depending how much money you have.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They've never run a legitimate surplus here.

Faked it and lied about it but never actually had a surplus.

You're in BC? Cos they just did this year

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5218474

All while increasing services and fixing crown corps

Mind you the BC Liberals were one of the most corrupt, useless parties I've ever seen so it's a low bar to clear

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Yep....the quick way to stuff an industry and sock it to the average working class / trades. look what happened in NZ  almost 40 years ago. Yacht / R/V caravan & other luxury goods got a 20 % tax. Overnight those industries collapsed and Bruce Farr, Ron Holland and Laurie Davidson exported themselves overseas amongst others. Cost to the economy was huge .But lefty policy is to be seen sticking it too the so called rich. Who in their parlance is anyone who doesn't depend on handouts from the state !

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Hmm, you are right  The luxury might be a violation of USMCA. Certainly the light plane makers would have the resources needed for that battle even if boatbuilders do not. 

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7 minutes ago, spankoka said:

Hmm, you are right  The luxury might be a violation of USMCA. Certainly the light plane makers would have the resources needed for that battle even if boatbuilders do not. 

The USMCA has not yet been ratified, and with today's political climate, it may never be.

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10 hours ago, alctel said:

Spankoka, I see what you are saying - interesting.

Wouldn't applying it to tax though also make progressive tax bands illegal though? As they are applied at different rates depending how much money you have.

No, because the Charter doesn't demand equal treatment in terms of economic status. 

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10 hours ago, alctel said:

You're in BC? Cos they just did this year

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5218474

All while increasing services and fixing crown corps

Mind you the BC Liberals were one of the most corrupt, useless parties I've ever seen so it's a low bar to clear

Increasing services???  Ha! 

The people who voted for the Green / NDP coalition on our little island are eating their words as the new roads we are getting are chip-and-seal, btu the new roads on the Highway Minister's island are nice blacktop.

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3 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

The USMCA has not yet been ratified, and with today's political climate, it may never be.

That does not matter much, as long as USMCA is not ratified NAFTA remains in force. 

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I thought "low income" ,was already just like camping

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1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

The luxury tax will have issues with US, Euro and Asian trade agreements and will likely be forgotten

as surely as the Green Party plans to tax robots.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/green-party-robot-tax-platform-1.5302236

It would only violate trade agreements if there was a different rule for Canadian builders.

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49 minutes ago, Tax Man said:

It would only violate trade agreements if there was a different rule for Canadian builders.

Noted and thanks.

A small source of potential revenue anyway compared with governments seeking to tax Facebook and Sailing Anarchy.:(

Any comment on that?

https://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2019/09/29/liberals-target-internet-giants-with-new-tax.html

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Taxes like this drive market responses that negate the hoped for effect.    

If a sailboat manufacturer invoiced seperately for hull, rig, fittings, sails, electronics and maybe even “assembly services / fitting out” you could probably break down even a $200k boat into several sub-$100k pieces.  Or with bigger boats maybe the hull is going to be over $100k but a lot of other stuff can be pieced out to avoid super-taxation.

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Sure will

Or sailors buying into charter fleets get popular again, maybe out of country.

What, will provinces start taxing absentee boat owners marina spots next?

 Bare hull aluminum fishing machine packages...

Lego takes over from Hunter in Canadian sales.

 

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The Liberals are going to have to put a tax on everyone's ATV/snow machine/boat/plane/camper/cottage and motorcycle if they seriously expect to finance a tunnel to Newfoundland. 

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7 hours ago, Expat Canuck said:

Increasing services???  Ha! 

The people who voted for the Green / NDP coalition on our little island are eating their words as the new roads we are getting are chip-and-seal, btu the new roads on the Highway Minister's island are nice blacktop.

Which island is that?

And they really have done a lot to improve services (like disability support, art funding, income assistance, undo bus pass clawback, revamp of services BC) as well as doing things like cap rent increases and ditch MSP payment, both which policies alone save me and my friends a ton of money. Not to mention unfucking BC ferries and ICBC which had both been run into the ground by the BC Liberals

The point being that you can do all that and still run a surplus fairly easily, unlike the line of attack the conservatives use (where they cut corporate/top income tax brackets and wonder why they suddenly have a deficit)

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It always amazes me, how so few people realize just how over taxed we already are.

Troubling. 

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15 minutes ago, Keith said:

It always amazes me, how so few people realize just how over taxed we already are.

Troubling. 

Overtaxed compared to what? I pay what seems like way less tax in Canada than I did in the UK

TBH they really need to make a new top tax rate for over 1million and then 10million and close all those offshore tax loopholes

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That's highly unlikely under a minister of finance who forgets he owns a castle in France

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I can not speak for the other islands, but on Gabriola, the road improvements has, been removing old known bumps, and replacing them with new bumps, via the tar seal program. We now have a series of corrugations / washboards, with the added benefit of loose gravel. This is on a 2 mile stretch, while ignoring other areas that need work. Too, we may discuss or argue about the Provincial budget. What I would like is some honest accounting, without political interference. I just had a free ferry ride today, which I do often, on my motorcycle. Using the cage is too much $$. Another problem with deficits, is the spenders, will invent new and improved ways to tax, which is what started this thread. Deficits are a crime, IMO.

My 1983 XS400 motorcycle, costs $390 per year to insure, only for opposition damage. The bike is worth about $390. I am selling my SV1000S because of the stupid rates. I have every discount possible. I mentioned above, I have been paying too much since they invented this insurance scam. The collector program is reasonable. I have three bikes with collector plates.

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8 minutes ago, Unkle Krusty said:

I can not speak for the other islands, but on Gabriola, the road improvements has, been removing old known bumps, and replacing them with new bumps, via the tar seal program. We now have a series of corrugations / washboards, with the added benefit of loose gravel. This is on a 2 mile stretch, while ignoring other areas that need work. Too, we may discuss or argue about the Provincial budget. What I would like is some honest accounting, without political interference. I just had a free ferry ride today, which I do often, on my motorcycle. Using the cage is too much $$. Another problem with deficits, is the spenders, will invent new and improved ways to tax, which is what started this thread. Deficits are a crime, IMO.

My 1983 XS400 motorcycle, costs $390 per year to insure, only for opposition damage. The bike is worth about $390. I am selling my SV1000S because of the stupid rates. I have every discount possible. I mentioned above, I have been paying too much since they invented this insurance scam. The collector program is reasonable. I have three bikes with collector plates.

You have obviously never had to pay California auto insurance.  You have it so good.  Almost like Medicare.

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I pay close to 45% income tax, then I pay 13% in HST tax, and buried in there are tariffs and duties on some products . I get about .35-.40cents of every dollar I earn. That seems like enough money in taxes.

I dont really object to paying my fair share, I object to watching it get pissed away.  I not sure at this point anybody in a federal position would play it any other way. Its too easy to get sucked into sitting at the trough, because the guy on your left and the lady on your right are all over it.

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I got hostile the year that my taxes paid for some minister's new door.

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5 hours ago, Laker said:

You have obviously never had to pay California auto insurance.  You have it so good.  Almost like Medicare.

Wait, you're not telling us that private auto insurance is expensive are you?  That would shake a few trees around British Columbia.   Everybody loves to hate our public insurance company, and there is a pretty loud lobby for going back to private, until they remember that the public insurance co. was created to stop private companies from gouging consumers.

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10 hours ago, Keith said:

It always amazes me, how so few people realize just how over taxed we already are.

Troubling. 

So many ppl think the only tax is what comes out of your pay. 

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10 hours ago, alctel said:

Overtaxed compared to what? I pay what seems like way less tax in Canada than I did in the UK

TBH they really need to make a new top tax rate for over 1million and then 10million and close all those offshore tax loopholes

in reality how much $ would that raise - and the small number with that coin would simply take it elsewhere - net loss to Canada

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How about taxes for the millions of Indiginous population that pay next to nothing?? cars , boats , airplanes tax free . University, free. 

 

I can show myself out....

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3 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

in reality how much $ would that raise - and the small number with that coin would simply take it elsewhere - net loss to Canada

It would raise an absolute shitload, I don't think you realise the scale of tax evasion among the rich

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3 hours ago, crankcall said:

How about taxes for the millions of Indiginous population that pay next to nothing?? cars , boats , airplanes tax free . University, free. 

 

I can show myself out....

I suspect they might be happy to pay those taxes in exchange for governments (and their predecessors) honouring their previous commitments to these groups.

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4 hours ago, SCANAS said:

So many ppl think the only tax is what comes out of your pay. 

image.png.3fd23558d3fbf3359e795cc43d82373f.png

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I would rather see the chart that shows how poorly all that substantial cash flow is managed and wasted.

That's the true elephant in the room.

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Sending development aid to China sure seems questionable under the present circumstances. 

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Tax Freedom Day for Canadians is June 14. Your day may vary.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/categories/tax-freedom-day

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The US has universal taxation, I do not know why Canada cannot have the same. Canadians take advantage of offshore tax shelters while at the same time people come to Canada because Canada is an offshore tax shelter. 

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An interesting view to consider / or item to conside is debt to gdp (below for G20)

 
Country Last   Previous Range  
Japan 238.20 Dec/18 238 238 : 50.6 %
Italy 134.80 Dec/18 134 135 : 90.5 %
Singapore 112.20 Dec/18 111 112 : 67.4 %
United States 106.10 Dec/18 105 119 : 31.8 %
France 98.40 Dec/18 98.4 98.4 : 20.7 %
Spain 97.10 Dec/18 98.1 100 : 16.6 %
Canada 90.60 Dec/18 89.7 101 : 45.1 %
Argentina 86.20 Dec/18 56.6 167 : 34.5 %
Euro Area 85.10 Dec/18 87.1 92 : 65 %
United Kingdom 84.70 Dec/18 85.1 85.1 : 21.8 %
Brazil 77dogballs Dec/18 74.07 77dogballs : 51.27 %
India 68.30 Dec/18 68.9 83.23 : 47.94 %
Germany 60.90 Dec/18 64.5 81.8 : 54.8 %
South Africa 55.80 Dec/18 53.1 55.8 : 27.8 %
Netherlands 52.40 Dec/18 57 73.1 : 43 %
China 50.50 Dec/18 46.8 50.5 : 20.4 %
Mexico 46.00 Dec/18 46 48.2 : 17.9 %
Australia 40.70 Dec/18 40.7 40.7 : 9.7 %
South Korea 36.60 Dec/18 36.3 39.9 : 8.24 %
Turkey 30.40 Dec/18 28.3 76.1 : 27.6 %
Indonesia 29.80 Dec/18 28.7 87.43 : 22.96 %
Switzerland 27.70 Dec/18 29.3 48.9 : 25.1 %
Saudi Arabia 19.10 Dec/18 17.2 104 : 1.6 %
Russia 13.50 Dec/17 12.9 92.1 : 6.5 %
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18 minutes ago, spankoka said:

The US has universal taxation, I do not know why Canada cannot have the same. Canadians take advantage of offshore tax shelters while at the same time people come to Canada because Canada is an offshore tax shelter. 

US does not really have "universal taxation" it taxes on global income so really that just applies to individual income taxes. If you are overseas in a country with a tax treaty (about 70) with the US you generally don't end up paying the US much or anything...but you end up with a lot of extra paperwork and administrative costs (see a number of articles written about US citizens abroad renouncing US citizenship - not to save money but headache).

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21 minutes ago, KC375 said:

An interesting view to consider / or item to conside is debt to gdp (below for G20)

 
Country Last   Previous Range  
Japan 238.20 Dec/18 238 238 : 50.6 %
Italy 134.80 Dec/18 134 135 : 90.5 %
Singapore 112.20 Dec/18 111 112 : 67.4 %
United States 106.10 Dec/18 105 119 : 31.8 %
France 98.40 Dec/18 98.4 98.4 : 20.7 %
Spain 97.10 Dec/18 98.1 100 : 16.6 %
Canada 90.60 Dec/18 89.7 101 : 45.1 %
Argentina 86.20 Dec/18 56.6 167 : 34.5 %
Euro Area 85.10 Dec/18 87.1 92 : 65 %
United Kingdom 84.70 Dec/18 85.1 85.1 : 21.8 %
Brazil 77dogballs Dec/18 74.07 77dogballs : 51.27 %
India 68.30 Dec/18 68.9 83.23 : 47.94 %
Germany 60.90 Dec/18 64.5 81.8 : 54.8 %
South Africa 55.80 Dec/18 53.1 55.8 : 27.8 %
Netherlands 52.40 Dec/18 57 73.1 : 43 %
China 50.50 Dec/18 46.8 50.5 : 20.4 %
Mexico 46.00 Dec/18 46 48.2 : 17.9 %
Australia 40.70 Dec/18 40.7 40.7 : 9.7 %
South Korea 36.60 Dec/18 36.3 39.9 : 8.24 %
Turkey 30.40 Dec/18 28.3 76.1 : 27.6 %
Indonesia 29.80 Dec/18 28.7 87.43 : 22.96 %
Switzerland 27.70 Dec/18 29.3 48.9 : 25.1 %
Saudi Arabia 19.10 Dec/18 17.2 104 : 1.6 %
Russia 13.50 Dec/17 12.9 92.1 : 6.5 %

Looks like Brazil's an outlier.

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LOL; Japan's debt look scary, but I guess negative interest rates makes debt a logical option for them.

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5 hours ago, crankcall said:

How about taxes for the millions of Indiginous population that pay next to nothing?? cars , boats , airplanes tax free . University, free. 

 

I can show myself out....

How about giving them full citizenship and repealing the Indian Act.   How about giving them Medicare.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Looks like Brazil's an outlier.

 (not sure how that happened) Maybe a new currency from this Site

interesting when I post what appear to be just the figures copied from the site I get "dogballs"...seems a more likely  currency for Venezuela.

Brazil 77dogballs Dec/18 74.07 77dogballs : 51.27 %

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Laker said:

How about giving them full citizenship and repealing the Indian Act.   How about giving them Medicare.

 

Seriously??? The chiefs do not want to repeal the Indian Act. They might have to be accountable for the billions that they get to dole out at their discretion. We all know how the Liberals and the chiefs responded to the accountability law.

Why would any of them take 'full' citizenship??? They are citizens-plus right now.

Where did you get these ideas?

 

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59 minutes ago, spankoka said:

LOL; Japan's debt look scary, but I guess negative interest rates makes debt a logical option for them.

Few things would scare me more than being sentenced to be Japan's finance minister. Half of tax revenue goes to supporting public debt. Slow growth, aging AND shrinking population, debt approaching 2.5 times GDP...the miracle is that this has not all blown up yet! A very high share of public debt held by bank of japan and japanese financial institutions may be all that is supporting this ponzi scheme.

Japan's current economy is what you would expect with Bernie Madoff as finance minister. Many seemingly smart traders have taken positions against Japanese debt but it somehow keeps on keeping on...but like Madoff's investment fund...sooner or later reality has to show up.

There is a real potential for very awfull outcomes. What happens to an aging population, in a country with low savings rate, and no youth to look after them if the governement goes broke.

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18 minutes ago, KC375 said:

 (not sure how that happened) Maybe a new currency from this Site

interesting when I post what appear to be just the figures copied from the site I get "dogballs"...seems a more likely  currency for Venezuela.

Brazil 77dogballs Dec/18 74.07 77dogballs : 51.27 %

 

 

The mods got tired of Tiresome Tom going on and on and on and on and on about his fucking rifle, so they made it so point two two shows up as dogballs.

 

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

The mods got tired of Tiresome Tom going on and on and on and on and on about his fucking rifle, so they made it so point two two shows up as dogballs.

 

test dogballs

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I'll be dammed...so that just goes to show there is no place on SA for the small calibers of the world. @Ishmael thanks, I was having a hard time figuring out what was going on

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36 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Few things would scare me more than being sentenced to be Japan's finance minister. Half of tax revenue goes to supporting public debt. Slow growth, aging AND shrinking population, debt approaching 2.5 times GDP...the miracle is that this has not all blown up yet! A very high share of public debt held by bank of japan and japanese financial institutions may be all that is supporting this ponzi scheme.

Japan's current economy is what you would expect with Bernie Madoff as finance minister. Many seemingly smart traders have taken positions against Japanese debt but it somehow keeps on keeping on...but like Madoff's investment fund...sooner or later reality has to show up.

There is a real potential for very awfull outcomes. What happens to an aging population, in a country with low savings rate, and no youth to look after them if the governement goes broke.

Inflation.

That's the difference between national government debt and all other debt - national governments can simply print more money to pay for it.

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