BobBill

Fduck Foiling!

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Foiling has a place, but it is not "sailing;" nope, not to me! Helmets? Please!

Much flotsam and jetsam flowing about "foils and foiling" and has, basically, removed hulls from water and also removed boat boat hulls from sailors.

Not the splendid engagement I learned to love! For me, foils and foiling are not "sailing" as I see it!

If the metaphor or irony coalesce, the current foils must have persons like Fox, McAlpine-Downey, Sarby, Luders, Stephens, and a host of others, who went off into the sunsets, swamped in their tombs! 

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Just like I tell my neighbor who tells me my motorcycle is to fast and dangerous I tell him ok, so don’t buy one 

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21 minutes ago, OSPREY said:

Just like I tell my neighbor who tells me my motorcycle is to fast and dangerous I tell him ok, so don’t buy one 

 

When people say they are against abortion, I tell them, "Fine, then don't get one!"

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I suspect that Uffa Fox would prefer to speak for himself on the merits of new means of going fast on the water, as well as the others before they were tossed onto the Luddite heap.  

I also believe we can accurately speculate on what Nat Herreshoff would think. 

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:

Foiling has a place, but it is not "sailing;" nope, not to me! Helmets? Please!

Much flotsam and jetsam flowing about "foils and foiling" and has, basically, removed hulls from water and also removed boat boat hulls from sailors.

Not the splendid engagement I learned to love! For me, foils and foiling are not "sailing" as I see it!

If the metaphor or irony coalesce, the current foils must have persons like Fox, McAlpine-Downey, Sarby, Luders, Stephens, and a host of others, who went off into the sunsets, swamped in their tombs! 

 

images.jpg

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5 minutes ago, 'Bacco said:

 

images.jpg

 

Get off my lawn!!!

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I think Nat would be championing foils if her were around now. In 1876 he was pushing limits with his catamaran

3-amaryllis-catamaran.jpg?w=768

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Was on the wall, sorry! Did not mean to interrupt your party.

SausageParty.jpg

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So let's stick with the hand loom, the steam powered loom is far too advanced. We should look at other sports that have gone too far:

330px-20170213_HIRSCHER_MARCEL_C6864.jpg xHoyub9RcdSw6gVcthQVg9dmKrd9pOeoixZNiJQv

 

USATSI_13029504.jpg

Vintage-Tennis-Style-7-1.jpg

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5 minutes ago, KC375 said:

I think Nat would be championing foils if her were around now. In 1876 he was pushing limits with his catamaran

3-amaryllis-catamaran.jpg?w=768

Nathanial (assuming) might also be miffed at state of his art...lovely rig...presumptious I know I am, but...

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22 minutes ago, KC375 said:

So let's stick with the hand loom, the steam powered loom is far too advanced. We should look at other sports that have gone too far:

330px-20170213_HIRSCHER_MARCEL_C6864.jpg xHoyub9RcdSw6gVcthQVg9dmKrd9pOeoixZNiJQv

 

USATSI_13029504.jpg

Vintage-Tennis-Style-7-1.jpg

That's a GREAT photo of Serena as well as of Ms Moore. Not a lot changed. Both wearing white dresses, both getting airborne :-)

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527632614_Patersoncompositesbike.thumb.jpg.8208bb789ed7b369f4671a54b15b0a88.jpg

Props to Paterson composites

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Smiles, wind, waves, chicks, sails. It's probably sailing.

2050532429_sailingrocks-sm.thumb.jpg.1abea8b32f3805c781976c083407b89e.jpg

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

That's a GREAT photo of Serena as well as of Ms Moore. Not a lot changed. Both wearing white dresses, both getting airborne :-)

But the racquets and speed have changed - I don't know if I could return Moore's serve but I might get a racquet on it. Serena's would be by me before I could move (hope it would go by rather than through).

But in fact their is some analogy to sailing (foiling) with the racquets....racquets made a huge leap forward from the days of the maxply...but the rules although continually evolving are aimed to avoid major changes " The Technical Committee have been given the brief to ensure that new inventions and devices for rackets do not change the character of the game."

s-l640.jpg

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Old Sail Wagon meets new wagons

61d9de22b8bd98189e914de055b8b852.jpg

Mini Skitter to the left designed by John Eisenlohr‎ and his winged land yacht with his newly built wing.

727491943_JohnE.jpg.3773f7a7ae093b89c547c364a6de4dad.jpg

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13 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

The Tour de France should only allow these bicycles I say!

Funny enough, the UCI (governing body of cycling) requires that bicycles meet a set of standards which includes the classic triangular design and a maximum tube diameter.

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Yeah fuck foiling, that prestige-less, history-less, hero-less activity that simply tilts a few extra foils (that displacement-boats need some of, no matter how much they hate vertical lift) in clever ways and blows away traditional sailboat racing as far as fast goes, anyway.  Last I heard in racing, the fastest boat wins.

Alexander Graham Bell (not sailing):

hydrafoil-1500x400.jpg

 

Monitor:
Monitor-hydrofoil.jpg

 

Williwaw, home-built and sailed across the Pacific.  Dave Keiper is one of the largely unsung heros, in my book.  Here's the cover of his book:

hydrolay.jpg

Hydroptere:

Hydroptere2LIV_468x334.jpg

Off Yer Rocker below.  Speaking of which: Where is Doug Lord when he is actually needed?

 

 

Screenshot from 2019-10-02 15:31:04.png

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to be honest the first time i saw AC72s flying i had to ask myself if it was still 'sailing' but I came to my senses. Old people who are good at doing the old thing do not like when younger people change the thing, story as old as time.

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I bumped into a decent brief online history of sailing hydrofoils getting one of those shots above.  It's in French.  The last attempt at using google translate on a French article on foiling here didn't work so well for DL: https://foils.wordpress.com/2015/03/08/les-projets-dhydrofoils-oceaniques/  Note 8, second article of three simply reads: "8 – Sailing Anarchy, 14 mars 2014"  I guess if it was said here, it must be true!

Fastyacht, I guess fifty years history just ain't sailing legacy like it used to be.   You missed today's date on the screen behind.

Edit: the more I think about it the more ignorant the initial post seems.  I wonder if said poster has tried the taste he claims is so different, and does not love.

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43 minutes ago, bacq2bacq said:

Off Yer Rocker below.  Speaking of which: Where is Doug Lord when he is actually needed?

Screenshot from 2019-10-02 15:31:04.png

Da fuck??

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15 minutes ago, blunted said:

Da fuck??

Not 'Rocker, blunted?  DL I find has an "elevated" view of his personal contribution (rocker well out!) and there are many other real heroes.  But I'm sure his defence of "is foiling sailing" would be entertaining...

I think that'd be you on wing, above, no?  And Fredo at the helm, boat by Skilling?  The heroes don't need to be in their graves for it to be "sailing".

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18 minutes ago, bacq2bacq said:

Not 'Rocker, blunted?  DL I find has an "elevated" view of his personal contribution (rocker well out!) and there are many other real heroes.  But I'm sure his defence of "is foiling sailing" would be entertaining...

I think that'd be you on wing, above, no?  And Fredo at the helm, boat by Skilling?  The heroes don't need to be in their graves for it to be "sailing".

I'm sure DL might like to imagine a variety of things that are best left unsaid here and now.

I'm on the wing, Fredo is in the tender, that's Rohan Veal driving. Drawings by Steve K yes. A few minutes later we were doing the Veal Heel too. Which was a little unnerving at the time.

That was a fun day, we got to meet so many cool people though that program. I seem to recall it was sailing that day, not something else. Yep right there in my Calendar, Wednesday sailing with Rohan.

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So stick with your lead sled. I like the classics, and the latest tech too - both have their appeal.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

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If it has a sail on it, then I would think it's still sailing.

Having said that, there will always be different types of sailing. When I cracked 44 MPH on my Hobie Trifoiler for the first time, I came home and immediately ordered a standard displacement type trimaran. Not that I didn't like foiling - it was great, but it wasn't the type of sailing I wanted to do. Both are great albeit very different.

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6 hours ago, wlrottge said:

Image result for time trial bike

And since the P3X is banned from all UCI bike racing and even the Tour and Olympics are raced on gear that a weekend warrior can ride to the shops or to work, they may just show that you create a much bigger sport where the emphasis is on accessibility and where the legends use the same gear as weekend warriors.

But of course, that doesn't mean that riding a P3X or 'bent is "not cycling".

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2 hours ago, MidPack said:

So stick with your lead sled. I like the classics, and the latest tech too - both have their appeal.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

This says it for me. I've sailed a variety of boats from old gaff schooners to maxi multihulls. Haven't foiled yet but want to. But I'm never happier than sailing alone in a small dinghy in light air on a summer afternoon, lying on my back and marvelling at the forces at play as wind creates lift over a sail's surface.

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9 hours ago, BobBill said:

Foiling has a place, but it is not "sailing;" nope, not to me! Helmets? Please!

Much flotsam and jetsam flowing about "foils and foiling" and has, basically, removed hulls from water and also removed boat boat hulls from sailors.

Not the splendid engagement I learned to love! For me, foils and foiling are not "sailing" as I see it!

If the metaphor or irony coalesce, the current foils must have persons like Fox, McAlpine-Downey, Sarby, Luders, Stephens, and a host of others, who went off into the sunsets, swamped in their tombs! 

Absolute bollocks. While foiling may, be over-hyped in some respects, it's ridiculous to claim it's not sailing. To use the most basic test, take a foiling Laser. When it's not on the foils it is clearly sailing. When it lifts onto the foils almost nothing has changed, although some things have speeded up. You still use the same gear, the same principles, most of the same reactions, and it's still all driven by a sail.

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I think I found a sailing periodical from the 30's a while back with an editorial reading "Damn this pestilence of planing!". Time is a merciless agent of change.

DRC

Ps. For those who don't know, a periodical is a website/forum from ye olden times which doesn't work as well.

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39 minutes ago, Curious said:

And since the P3X is banned from all UCI bike racing and even the Tour and Olympics are raced on gear that a weekend warrior can ride to the shops or to work, they may just show that you create a much bigger sport where the emphasis is on accessibility and where the legends use the same gear as weekend warriors.

But of course, that doesn't mean that riding a P3X or 'bent is "not cycling".

It's legal in Triathlon.

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29 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

It's legal in Triathlon.

That's the trouble with triathalon.

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2 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

It's legal in Triathlon.

Which is a different sport, so therefore irrelevant to the point.

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46 minutes ago, Curious said:

Which is a different sport, so therefore irrelevant to the point.

Bikes are equipment used in different sports.  Bikes have evolved which is exactly the point.

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55 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Bikes are equipment used in different sports.  Bikes have evolved which is exactly the point.

But in the most popular sport that use bikes they haven't evolved all that much - certainly not as much as sailing craft have. For instance it's interesting to read Michael Henderson's account of riding the bike that took the 1908 (or thereabouts) hour record, where he notes that although he was a pro time triallist with a techno fetish so strong that he spent years sleeping every night in an oxygen tent, the bike that was a century old basically felt very familiar.

Of course modern bikes are a bit faster, significantly lighter etc but the weekend warrior can still buy a bike just like the one that wins the Tour - actually WW can ride a lighter one to work each day. And ALL of the UCI bikes are dramatically slower than the fastest bikes - and vastly more popular. The evolution is minor (or let's say comparatively minor, to stop getting into a debate about how to define "minor") and has been directed to ensure that bikes remain accessible - and it works.  

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7 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

It's legal in Triathlon.

It's also legal in many other parts of cycling. The UCI covers a very very small part of the cycling spectrum (tour, worlds etc). I could go and ride a P3X in the national level competition (perhaps not in america, they seem to like the UCI a bit too much). Otherwise it's an oddity that worlds and so on fall under the UCI.

Actually the 'man on the street' can ride plenty of 'conventional' bikes that are not UCI legal - the weight limits mean that many of the pro bikes are heavier/have to be ballasted to meet the minimum weight, where everyone else can go off and enjoy the fun that materials and construction enable.

So basically the UCI is an anachronism.. perhaps like the OP ;)

As to sailing: Uffa Fox - "weight is only useful in a steamroller", maker of notably light and planing (big thing once) dinghies. Spinning, I rather doubt.. leading the charge more likely.

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4 hours ago, Curious said:

But in the most popular sport that use bikes they haven't evolved all that much - certainly not as much as sailing craft have. For instance it's interesting to read Michael Henderson's account of riding the bike that took the 1908 (or thereabouts) hour record, where he notes that although he was a pro time triallist with a techno fetish so strong that he spent years sleeping every night in an oxygen tent, the bike that was a century old basically felt very familiar.

Of course modern bikes are a bit faster, significantly lighter etc but the weekend warrior can still buy a bike just like the one that wins the Tour - actually WW can ride a lighter one to work each day. And ALL of the UCI bikes are dramatically slower than the fastest bikes - and vastly more popular. The evolution is minor (or let's say comparatively minor, to stop getting into a debate about how to define "minor") and has been directed to ensure that bikes remain accessible - and it works.  

Apple-to-apples is not oranges-to-apples.

I do not disagree with the above. (Uffa's quote is not in context.) And, remember, "dog loves his own...!"

Changes happen, but...some are create a complete "change?" Atomic piles heat, so do coal stoves. Not the same. 

Is "physics" the same as " quantum mechanics." 

I do not agree "foiling" is "sailing." Helmets? Some swabs agree; some do not! Still, as a "sailing venue," "Fduck foiling!" 

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So if foiling is not sailing, at what nano second does a "sailor" become something else when they go out on a foiling Laser?

Obviously when they are sailing their foiling Laser on a reach at (say) 5.5 knots and the boat is not foiling, the person is still sailing. After all, they are just on a Laser with different foils.  To claim that when the Laser reaches (say) 5.51 knots and pops out onto its foils, the sailor is suddenly doing another sport - on exactly the same boat, the same day, the same wind, the same minute - is very strange and utterly illogical.

Maybe you should actually try it before you decide you know about it.

I always find it strange that you preach being harmless and bothering no one, but sling shit at the boats others sail.

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In your opinion a sportcar isn‘t a car and a camper as well. But as the driver you still drive a car, don‘t you?

Well the keel and the ruder of most sailboats even the classic ones are foils. Trimming a sailboat the right way (e.g. explained in The Art and Science of Sails) on a beating course  means balancing the aerodynamic setup of the sails with the hydrodynamics setup of the hull, keel and rudder(s). 

My definition of sailing is to have a sail/wing with a mast, a hull and the need to trimm the sail in relation to wind and course. Thus, for me kite-surfers not belong to the group of sailors. They kite, not sail. If my hull is on foils or not makes no difference to me.

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Maybe I has..."nano second" is just more "helmeted jetsam"...look, I enjoyed the AC races and have seen the boats run, fine! I got it!

But, I have preferences and grant divides. I would never trade a Finn for a "Further Fducked Laser" and a helmet, before or after that nano. Life goes on, will deal with it either way.

 

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2 minutes ago, braunle said:

In your opinion a sportcar isn‘t a car and a camper as well. But as the driver you still drive a car, don‘t you?

Well the keel and the ruder of most sailboats even the classic ones are foils. Trimming a sailboat the right way (e.g. explained in The Art and Science of Sails) on a beating course  means balancing the aerodynamic setup of the sails with the hydrodynamics setup of the hull, keel and rudder(s). 

My definition of sailing is to have a sail/wing with a mast, a hull and the need to trimm the sail in relation to wind and course. Thus, for me kite-surfers not belong to the group of sailors. They kite, not sail. If my hull is on foils or not makes no difference to me.

Duh!

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5 hours ago, Curious said:

But in the most popular sport that use bikes

Time trialing is definitely NOT the most popular sport that uses bikes.

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29 minutes ago, BobBill said:

Maybe I has..."nano second" is just more "helmeted jetsam"...look, I enjoyed the AC races and have seen the boats run, fine! I got it!

But, I have preferences and grant divides. I would never trade a Finn for a "Further Fducked Laser" and a helmet, before or after that nano. Life goes on, will deal with it either way.

 

No one said you can't have preferences, but that doesn't give you the right to decide what is sailing and what is not. 

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14 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Time trialing is definitely NOT the most popular sport that uses bikes.

I didn't say it was. It uses the fastest UCI legal bikes and is a fairly small discipline, which may be significant in itself.  The more popular disciplines use slower bikes which in many cases (ie road and track and perhaps BMX) have "evolved" less, which may itself say something about the evolution of sporting equipment.

 

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It seems to me sailing is foiling, or maybe that is foiling(s).

The essence of sailing is the use of two or more foils with at least one in the air and one in water, to travel from one point to another.  I was sailing I14s at the time windsurfers hit the scene. What a difference - trapeze, three sails, a gazillion adjustments to play or true simplicity - two foils one board, one sailor.

It seems to me kiteboarding is, like windsuring - sailing reduced to its essence - a person and two foils

 

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16 hours ago, bacq2bacq said:

 Last I heard in racing, the fastest boat wins.

 

Only if it's allowed to race, and not racing on corrected time. That's a very big difference from the fastest possible boat, or the fastest boat that can enter, winning.

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@BobBill: simple yes/no question to which you owe an answer to the SA community: 

Have you EVER sailed/driven/flown/crewed-on a foiler? 

If it's not "sailing" please tell us, from your experience, what it is.  And until you do try it, STFU.  The last thing the world needs is more puerile politicization, even of our sport.  Politics relies on artificial division.  Stop it.  Or take it to PA, where you get bonus points for being stupid.

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40 minutes ago, Curious said:

I didn't say it was. It uses the fastest UCI legal bikes and is a fairly small discipline, which may be significant in itself.  The more popular disciplines use slower bikes which in many cases (ie road and track and perhaps BMX) have "evolved" less, which may itself say something about the evolution of sporting equipment.

 

Well, you said word for word "the most popular sport that use bikes...".  Triathlon is way more popular than road racing.

No matter.  TT bikes are designed for a very specific purpose... to go fast in a straight line while not drafting off anyone. 

Any discipline on a bike is cycling. If someone says they're a cyclist I'm assuming they have a quiver of bikes in their garage...TT bike, road bike, MTB, a gravel grinder, a single speed and maybe an e-bike for commuting.  ALL of them are bikes.

As for foiling?  Hull, sails, rudder...all components of a sailboat.  A center board serves a different function than a keel.  Twin rudders work differently than a single rudder.  And elevating foils are no different.  They just tremendously reduce drag by getting the entire hull out of the water.  You still have to sail the boat.  Foiling is sailing.  To try and prove otherwise is a futile attempt to start an arguement.  TT bike to impractical to commute on?  Buy a commuter bike.  Don't like foiling boats?  Don't buy one.  Pretty simple.

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I think we can all agree that fduck is a stupid name for a boat. I wouldn't mind a link to video of it foiling so I don't have to go to the fdrunt page.

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7 hours ago, fastyacht said:

decavitator_faired.il.gif

Fastyacht, Sorry missed this.

Reminds me of the old Rube Goldberg comic. Hulls in water a boat do not make to me. It may be a boat, in sense all aircraft at not planes. Nothing wrong with any, or experiment, even the 4kSB's.

I recall Walker and a buddy, sawing up a 14 hull, gluing it back up and racing it. I even took a Malibu Outrigger design and "went modern."  

But some efforts are simply not "sailboats," like the above...and my taxonemy puts them "different." Helmets, not allowed.

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34 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

I think we can all agree that fduck is a stupid name for a boat. I wouldn't mind a link to video of it foiling so I don't have to go to the fdrunt page.

Good one...but I would say the fducking fdrunt page." : ]

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@BobBill you are clearly still lurking around this thread.  You describe some of your experiences.

Please describe your foiling experience, from which you derive your anti-foiling opinions.

Edit: thought so.

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I did not suggest "decideing for you." Just me. Not a luddite, just opined.

 

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8 minutes ago, bacq2bacq said:

@BobBill you are clearly still lurking around this thread.  You describe some of your experiences.

Please describe your foiling experience, from which you derive your anti-foiling opinions.

Edit: thought so.

B2B, Me not "lurk," having a dark cafe and get email dings.

Exp, "Wet!" Actually, have had worse times in wee dinghy...but no helmet needed. Does one need to ride a foiler to have a taxonamic opinion?

I play. Hate to write, "Foil sailing" reminds me of my preference for "tacking proa" ala White, instead of "outrigger' from real proa shunters, whom I respect, but give me heat for writing "tacking proa," at times. 

Vikings traveling on a foils hurts my head.

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26 minutes ago, BobBill said:

Fastyacht, Sorry missed this.

Reminds me of the old Rube Goldberg comic. Hulls in water a boat do not make to me. It may be a boat, in sense all aircraft at not planes. Nothing wrong with any, or experiment, even the 4kSB's.

I recall Walker and a buddy, sawing up a 14 hull, gluing it back up and racing it. I even took a Malibu Outrigger design and "went modern."  

But some efforts are simply not "sailboats," like the above...and my taxonemy puts them "different." Helmets, not allowed.

Decavitatur definitely not a sailboat. But maybe a bicycle. Who knows!

I sailed a few regattas with a 505 helm 30 years ago who wore a helmet.

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59 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Well, you said word for word "the most popular sport that use bikes...".  Triathlon is way more popular than road racing.

No matter.  TT bikes are designed for a very specific purpose... to go fast in a straight line while not drafting off anyone. 

Any discipline on a bike is cycling. If someone says they're a cyclist I'm assuming they have a quiver of bikes in their garage...TT bike, road bike, MTB, a gravel grinder, a single speed and maybe an e-bike for commuting.  ALL of them are bikes.

As for foiling?  Hull, sails, rudder...all components of a sailboat.  A center board serves a different function than a keel.  Twin rudders work differently than a single rudder.  And elevating foils are no different.  They just tremendously reduce drag by getting the entire hull out of the water.  You still have to sail the boat.  Foiling is sailing.  To try and prove otherwise is a futile attempt to start an arguement.  TT bike to impractical to commute on?  Buy a commuter bike.  Don't like foiling boats?  Don't buy one.  Pretty simple.

I disagree. Triathlon is men in speedos pretending to know how to ride. <ducking>

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1 hour ago, Curious said:

No one said you can't have preferences, but that doesn't give you the right to decide what is sailing and what is not. 

Not even for me? You cruel, "Donald!"

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Men in "Speedos?" No helmets? 

Ballsy! 

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17 hours ago, bacq2bacq said:

Off Yer Rocker below.  Speaking of which: Where is Doug Lord when he is actually needed?

Screenshot from 2019-10-02 15:31:04.png

Doug is never needed......................ever!!!

That comment should be filed under "things you'll never hear said" :P

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Ironically he can act as a "foil" to many conversations...….

 

Sad humor face

 

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I have, but, as noted, did not work out so well and did not like it. But, I'd say it is not necessary to try something to pooh-pooh it, and am certain most agree.

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22 hours ago, KC375 said:

So let's stick with the hand loom, the steam powered loom is far too advanced. We should look at other sports that have gone too far:

330px-20170213_HIRSCHER_MARCEL_C6864.jpg xHoyub9RcdSw6gVcthQVg9dmKrd9pOeoixZNiJQv

 

USATSI_13029504.jpg

Vintage-Tennis-Style-7-1.jpg

U could argue that skiing was better off with the disco sticks...  ;)

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14 hours ago, Dave Clark said:

I think I found a sailing periodical from the 30's a while back with an editorial reading "Damn this pestilence of planing!". 

Planing?! Heresy I say!

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21 hours ago, blunted said:

Smiles, wind, waves, chicks, sails. It's probably sailing.

2050532429_sailingrocks-sm.thumb.jpg.1abea8b32f3805c781976c083407b89e.jpg

So where is the pic after the gybe??

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Doug is never needed......................ever!!!

That comment should be filed under "things you'll never hear said" :P

Mad, crazy good pic. That "sail" got my attention.

Love the pic and the gonads, but no helmets.

 

Still...like ice boats, sand rigs, not "sailing," but love it. Crazy! And right...never needed.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Well, you said word for word "the most popular sport that use bikes...".  Triathlon is way more popular than road racing.

No matter.  TT bikes are designed for a very specific purpose... to go fast in a straight line while not drafting off anyone. 

Any discipline on a bike is cycling. If someone says they're a cyclist I'm assuming they have a quiver of bikes in their garage...TT bike, road bike, MTB, a gravel grinder, a single speed and maybe an e-bike for commuting.  ALL of them are bikes.

As for foiling?  Hull, sails, rudder...all components of a sailboat.  A center board serves a different function than a keel.  Twin rudders work differently than a single rudder.  And elevating foils are no different.  They just tremendously reduce drag by getting the entire hull out of the water.  You still have to sail the boat.  Foiling is sailing.  To try and prove otherwise is a futile attempt to start an arguement.  TT bike to impractical to commute on?  Buy a commuter bike.  Don't like foiling boats?  Don't buy one.  Pretty simple.

Tri is far less popular in the countries I know (the UK, Australia and NZ) that operate national sporting censuses and therefore track the relative popularity of sports.

I haven't said anything against foiling. I have said it IS sailing.

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21 minutes ago, Curious said:

Tri is far less popular in the countries I know (the UK, Australia and NZ) that operate national sporting censuses and therefore track the relative popularity of sports.

I haven't said anything against foiling. I have said it IS sailing.

I'd like a triathlon of hydrofoil sailing, hydrofoil rowing, hydrofoil cycling. Now that would be more fun than running a marathon after spending all day riding one of those "tri bike" contraptions.

(In the U.S. I'm sure the triathlon numbers look bigger than road racing but that's partially because (1) road racing is tightly regulated by USCF -- you need a license for good reason and (2) whatever other sociological things you can think of.)

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5 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

I'd like a triathlon of hydrofoil sailing, hydrofoil rowing, hydrofoil cycling. Now that would be more fun than running a marathon after spending all day riding one of those "tri bike" contraptions.

THM_10_06197_Moth_Worlds-copy.jpg

human-powered-hydrofoils-com-13.jpg

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Sailing porn and more...

10-meter.jpg

majestic.jpg

ainslie_inhisdiabilicallyingeniousMachine.jpg

Bob_Penguin.jpg

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Be harmless. Bother none! Leave all better for being!

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Aye! Perfection?

If sought, try the White House or Congress. 

I do not waste time on FB.

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I understand BobBill's discomfort with technological progress, things we have grown up with are comforting and familiar, the new can seem cold and antiseptic, in his case dangerous, thus his seeming thirst for helmets.

I present the evolution of downhaulers as an example of why this might leave one feeling cold with the modern solution to the problem of changing the angle of a line. Indeed the modern solution is lighter and more efficient but somehow not as pleasing.

downhauler-sm.thumb.jpg.a0901a7342efc4023d1f8437e15323e4.jpgdownhauler-modern-sm.jpg.624f521ad1dc4a58f566b4428cd70aaa.jpg

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1 minute ago, blunted said:

I understand BobBill's discomfort with technological progress, things we have grown up with are comforting and familiar, the new can seem cold and antiseptic, in his case dangerous, thus his seeming thirst for helmets.

I present the evolution of downhaulers as an example of why this might leave one feeling cold with the modern solution to the problem of changing the angle of a line. Indeed the modern solution is lighter and more efficient but somehow not as pleasing.

downhauler-modern-sm.jpg.624f521ad1dc4a58f566b4428cd70aaa.jpg

Lower maintenance

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True, but, not as fun...

Blunted, you got part of it...still there is something else that drives me to favor one over the other.

I have seen Moths and ICs racing. I walked from the bobbers and stood in cold to watch the IC for hour or so. Alternatively, I love the AC foilers...been close and far and the money (and now the polluting after affect - resins - give me shudders.

Too, am big fan of wings or soft wings...on "sailboats," if that makes any sense.

As OP just tossed the thought out, which was harbored for a bit and something tripped the catapult, so here we are.

Give me a "fducking slow" Lehman 12 anyday.

Besides, I am not a fan of "helmet-tech," bikes or boats.

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3 hours ago, BobBill said:

Sailing porn and more...

 

 

Bob_Penguin.jpg

A GREEN PENGuiN!!!!!   YAY!!!!

(And colour coordinated, too!)

(p.s. I raced mine in the Moshulu Cup many moons ago. Got lots of "beautiful" comments and stuff. )

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Used to watch em race and sail in Skokie Lagoons near Chi.

Hard to come by now...in fact, all these dink are rare (a hint?)

 

Pic is IC's, Belmont Harbor, Chi, 1978. College races...annual...was cold and dreary day too. 

1174BelmontFrostbiters72.jpg

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BobBill is certainly entitled to his preferences in sailboats but the cat is out of the bag and IMO most junior sailors if they go beyond the Opti/420 learning curve and stay passionate about the sport are certainly going to want to try some type of foiling sailboat at some point. Get over it.

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33 minutes ago, AClass USA 230 said:

BobBill is certainly entitled to his preferences in sailboats but the cat is out of the bag and IMO most junior sailors if they go beyond the Opti/420 learning curve and stay passionate about the sport are certainly going to want to try some type of foiling sailboat at some point. Get over it.

UFO. That's the near future.

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Maybe, but I think the diversion will lead to hard lines.

Either way, c'est la vie! Will have to wait a bit anyway, unless Mother Nature slams the door!

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Color me a 31 year old curmudgeon, but I’ve preferred watching events like the TP52 and IC37 series over the recent AC events. The sport I grew up with emphasized crew work and sail handling; not three people controlling the boat and the rest constantly grinding to keep the hydraulics charged. Evolution is normal, but eventually you wind up with a completely new species. My enjoyment of sailing is derived from the challenge of making the boat sail as fast as it can, of playing the game better and smarter. I don’t need foilers for that.

That said, I do enjoy the sensations of