Bull City

Cruise Ships: blessing or curse?

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I’ve been stewing over this for a while. In 1985, when Mrs. Bull and I went to Bermuda. It was her first visit and my third. We stayed away from Hamilton but went in one day for a little shopping. There were four behemoths in port, and crowds were dreadful. I recall that the woman who helped us in one of the shops was very apologetic that she was so frazzled. 

A few year ago in Venice the phenomenon was even more evident. The locals told us that the economic benefits to Venice are little to none. The passengers don’t buy meals, only cheap souvenirs, and clog the streets, museums and cultural sites. 

As some of you may have read, Mrs. Bull and I are visiting Greece for three weeks. Right now we’re in Santorini, one of the Greek Islands. There is a lot to like (ancient archeological sites, family tavernas away from the crowds), but the impact of cruise ships is not one of them. 

It’s a conundrum. Tourism can “make” a place, and can ruin it. Cruise ships seem to bring all the bad and none of the good.

What do you all think?

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13 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I’ve been stewing over this for a while. In 1985, when Mrs. Bull and I went to Bermuda. It was her first visit and my third. We stayed away from Hamilton but went in one day for a little shopping. There were four behemoths in port, and crowds were dreadful. I recall that the woman who helped us in one of the shops was very apologetic that she was so frazzled. 

A few year ago in Venice the phenomenon was even more evident. The locals told us that the economic benefits to Venice are little to none. The passengers don’t buy meals, only cheap souvenirs, and clog the streets, museums and cultural sites. 

As some of you may have read, Mrs. Bull and I are visiting Greece for three weeks. Right now we’re in Santorini, one of the Greek Islands. There is a lot to like (ancient archeological sites, family tavernas away from the crowds), but the impact of cruise ships is not one of them. 

It’s a conundrum. Tourism can “make” a place, and can ruin it. Cruise ships seem to bring all the bad and none of the good.

What do you all think?

Of course it's a curse. The cruise line is a corporate money-sucker who delivers tourists on the hoof with nearly-empty pockets in swarms over any attraction they can sell in package form. Everybody else makes less money and suffers increased infrastructure load.

Why would one go to Venice and eat Italian food, when you get stuffed with cafeteria food for free on the ship? Etc etc

If PT Barnum were alive today, he's be running a cruise line.

FB- Doug

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They are a curse.  In peak season we get a couple of ships a day here, which drops 6000ish tourists into the city.  They wander around and buy cheap mementos, but yes - they aren't eating in restaurants, they aren't staying in hotels, they are in such a hurry they don't have time for much.   The only people making money on them are the cruise lines and the companies that bus them around to look at stuff.  Recently talking with the operator of a local monument, his comment was that to offer an experience that you could book onboard the cruise ship (where most passengers will book an excursion) the profit margin is pretty much zero because both the bus operator and the cruise line will take a cut.

In Halifax one of the local bus operators has a fleet of double decker buses, they run a "hop-on, hop off" service where one buys a ticket and it is valid for the day, the buses run a big loop about every 15 minutes.  Tour guide on the bus tells you what's going on in each neighborhood.  Our observation is that few will actually get off the bus and those who do are typically not spending money, having already blown $50 a head on a bus ride...

I don't think cruise ships bring value to the ports they visit, plus they are environmental nightmares.  The people on them get a very superficial view of the ports of call.

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A curse. No question.

Cruise Ships are the very embodiement of everything that is wrong in 'modern' society.

I sometimes have a look at this channel with some sort of morbid fascination, like a car accident that you don't want to look at.

How can anyone enjoy this kind of holiday?

-They rip you of with their 'onboard currency',

-They cramp you in what from afar looks like a moving social housing block,

-They stuff you with food that certainly is not healthy,

-They charge you your weight in gold if you need treatment in the onboard hospital, even for band aids or aspirin.

-They let you invade tiny villages and beautiful cities and otherwise rather untouched sceneries multiple times a week,

-They often have people working for you in places well below the waterline and well below what would be a fair wage and take precautions so that you don't see them,

-They poison the air at sea and also, because it's cheaper to have the engines running, at dock. Not to speak about the water.

I really don't see why we're having dicussions about car emissions while this sort of holiday is rising in poularity. 

 

To me, people who enjoy this sort of holiday just couldn't care less about a.n.y.t.h.i.n.g and obviously hate to have any control over their own lives.

Sad.

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I was glad to read that Venice has banned cruise ships, at least the behemoths that roamed the canal. We love Venice but have only been there in the off season so haven't seen the onslaught of passengers. In fact I'd never go there in season, it's so private feeling a place without the crowds. 

 

I see medium sized cruise ships anchored off Rockland from my harbor a couple miles North. There is always local news about the problem, pro and con. Curiously, we are unaffected here. People, bulk tourists especially, are just like cows (no offense). They stay to certain marked trails and very few go beyond. 

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Tour buses suck and the  ships are the equivalent of 100+ of those showing up all at once.  Traveling in large managed groups? I know people who love it, for me why not just stay home and watch some movies.  You will see and learn as much or more without annoying the rest of the planet. 

I have never known any of my tour bus/cruise friends that liked the movie Wall E.  Just sayin.

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If I can be somewhat contrary, where I live we get, every once in a while, one of those small Norwegian expedition cruise ships, capacity somewhere in the 3-500 pax range.  They show up when transiting from the Arctic to Antarctica, and come here in the very off season (town docks and marina docks not even in yet).  The passengers are almost universally curious, friendly, and active.  As they all get issued the same foul weather gear, it’s easy to pick them out in town.  I’ve seen them walk miles in driving, cold rain to find points of interest.  They poke their heads into working boat shops and stores, and are respectful. Coffee shops, bars and restaurants do good, welcome business.  Even in season when the infrequent larger (2000ish pax) show up, they’re generally well organized and the traffic and crowd levels, while increased, are not horribly so.  The first time a bigger ship showed up, some of the restaurants were caught unawares (probably assuming, like above, that passengers just get bused around and fed on the ship and wouldn’t be interested) and got slammed.  I think now the chamber of commerce hands out a schedule well in advance so that extra staff can be on hand. Bartender just the other day was complaining  that, on what would be normally a quiet weekday afternoon, he was busy (his manager, however, was more than happy to take the money).

Even the big honkin’ ones they get a few towns over have major differences depending on who they’re marketed to.  Carnival ships adhere to the stereotype.  The younger, European crowds (especially the Germans, for whatever reason) on the upmarket ships are very active.  Sometimes they need to run a tender in filled just with bicycles.

That said, yes, the giant cruise ships that go to the popular destinations in large numbers are a blight.  From what I can see I don’t know why they bother.  Stand in line, get a couple hours of a Clif Note local history/culture, stand in line, buy a coupe made-in-China trinkets, stand in line, repeat.

Disclaimer:  I do make part of my living, in a roundabout way, from cruise ship traffic

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We have never gone on a tour. Yesterday, we hired a driver-guide to take us to a couple of archeological sites. The owner of our little hotel set it up. He was local and very nice.

He was knowledgeable about the history of Santorini, ancient and recent, its customs, politics, you name it.

He also took us to a winery and a brewery, and brought us to a friend’s taverna for the best grilled fish dinners I have ever had. 

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9 minutes ago, NaClH20 said:

If I can be somewhat contrary, where I live we get, every once in a while, one of those small Norwegian expedition cruise ships, capacity somewhere in the 3-500 pax range.  They show up when transiting from the Arctic to Antarctica, and come here in the very off season (town docks and marina docks not even in yet).  The passengers are almost universally curious, friendly, and active.  As they all get issued the same foul weather gear, it’s easy to pick them out in town.  I’ve seen them walk miles in driving, cold rain to find points of interest.  They poke their heads into working boat shops and stores, and are respectful. Coffee shops, bars and restaurants do good, welcome business.  Even in season when the infrequent larger (2000ish pax) show up, they’re generally well organized and the traffic and crowd levels, while increased, are not horribly so.  The first time a bigger ship showed up, some of the restaurants were caught unawares (probably assuming, like above, that passengers just get bused around and fed on the ship and wouldn’t be interested) and got slammed.  I think now the chamber of commerce hands out a schedule well in advance so that extra staff can be on hand. Bartender just the other day was complaining  that, on what would be normally a quiet weekday afternoon, he was busy (his manager, however, was more than happy to take the money).

I imagine that this is how it starts. Soon, every day becomes a mad house. 

Santorini becomes Insantorini. 

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1 hour ago, Bull City said:

I’ve been stewing over this for a while. In 1985, when Mrs. Bull and I went to Bermuda. It was her first visit and my third. We stayed away from Hamilton but went in one day for a little shopping. There were four behemoths in port, and crowds were dreadful. I recall that the woman who helped us in one of the shops was very apologetic that she was so frazzled. 

A few year ago in Venice the phenomenon was even more evident. The locals told us that the economic benefits to Venice are little to none. The passengers don’t buy meals, only cheap souvenirs, and clog the streets, museums and cultural sites. 

As some of you may have read, Mrs. Bull and I are visiting Greece for three weeks. Right now we’re in Santorini, one of the Greek Islands. There is a lot to like (ancient archeological sites, family tavernas away from the crowds), but the impact of cruise ships is not one of them. 

It’s a conundrum. Tourism can “make” a place, and can ruin it. Cruise ships seem to bring all the bad and none of the good.

What do you all think?

We've sailed to a lot of places cruise ships visit.

On the whole, I think they are a plague.

From personal experience, I've only been one and I despised the experience. To be fair, it was a weekender booze cruise to Nassau out of Miami and not one of the nicer destination packages. But I know people that love cruising, but I just can't see the appeal. If I spend a day in a place taking tours, I don't count that I've "seen" it or "done" it.

The place the cruisers see for their bungee-visit is NOT the place that we're anchored in the rest of the time. You can tell in a lot of places when a cruise ship is coming, because they start decorating and cleaning and wrapping everything up in palm fronds and plants. The cruise ship visits for eight hours, and it all goes away.

We were on Iles des Pins in New Caledonia for a week or two. It's a small island with a population of about 2,000 people, mostly Kanak natives. When a cruise ship with 3,000 people on board anchors, the whole character of the place changes. It's a madhouse, and nothing like the tranquil paradise it is all the other days. Cookouts on the beach, vendors selling stuff from stands, music, noise, crowds.

Same for anywhere and everywhere we've been. We learned years ago that cruise ship days in town are best spent on the boat.

 

The only places that don't change when cruise ships show up are places where cruise ships are omnipresent, like Phillipsburg in Sint Martin. There's almost always one there, sometimes 3 or 4 at once. So the sidewalk hawkers and chotchke  sellers never really get a day off.

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16 minutes ago, Bull City said:

We have never gone on a tour. Yesterday, we hired a driver-guide to take us to a couple of archeological sites. The owner of our little hotel set it up. He was local and very nice.

He was knowledgeable about the history of Santorini, ancient and recent, its customs, politics, you name it.

He also took us to a winery and a brewery, and brought us to a friend’s taverna for the best grilled fish dinners I have ever had. 

We rarely do tours, but in some places they are worth it. In some places - like the Galapagos - they're pretty much mandatory.

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Curse.

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In Today’s World, everyone wants everything quick, easy and without any effort.  Ever wonder why Sailing, Golf, Water Skiing and just about any other sport or activity that requires effort and learning is failing or at least not as popular while things like cruise ships and taking a “cruise” has become so inviting and FULL.  

It takes no effort.  Fork over the money and one hops on a floating hotel with THOUSANDS of others, get over fed, over drunk and enjoy doing nothing because on does not have to do anything but feed thier face.  

These ships are an abomination of sea craft.  Built extra large to cram as many onboard as possible.  It surprises me that more have not sunk with the loss of all hands.  

Cruises could be a joy, could be an education, as previsiously mentioned.  However, our world has changed and not always for the better.

 At least when we cruise, we can choose a course that takes us away from the crowds and into the open spaces where life is good.

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My impression is that the cattle people who pay big bucks to ride on the cruise ships are the type who like to be herded around.  They follow the scheduled itinerary, stay on the pre-packaged excursions, and don’t strike off on their own.  If you have a tourism-amenable business and can wrangle a scheduled bus stop at your place, it’s probably pretty sweet.  To make an exception, a town would have to have a sickening concentration of tourist traps that would make bivouaccing the herd there worthwhile.  Years ago, I was in Key West on a quiet week - then the ships came in.  It was like a really nasty tide flooded over the town.  

A couple of those “National Geographic” boats come down here after their Alaska season - the types that carry kayaks and zodiacs. Perhaps a more adventurous clientele, but I haven’t noticed if their crowds are any different.  

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"If it's Tuesday this must be Belgium".

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I agree with most of this, but we are forgetting what a bargain cruises can be compared to other vacations. A name brand Caribbean cruise with an outside room including food can be had for under $150 per person per day. This is less than an OK hotel room in most destination cities. Hell a one day ticket to Disneyland is over $100, as are lift tickets at most better ski areas. Most travelers have limited vacation budgets, especially retirees, and at those prices it is easier to see how they fill those huge ships.

I am not implying modern cruise ships are a good thing at all, but it does help explain why they are so popular.

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I think (and hope) we are moving towards a virtual Cruise Experience. It is there in all but name already. You get on a "ship", it is gently tilted to and fro for  few hours, then you are disgorged into a Las Vegas hotel set type stage where you experience "local culture" for 4 hours, get back in the "ship" and go on. That is those that can be torn away from attractions on the ship itself: swimming pools, beaches , race tracks, casinos, carnival rides, water slides, etc. 

In Ketchikan (population about 12,000) if there are four large cruise ships at the docks, they disgorge 14,000 people (for the convenience of the local vendors, there is a calendar published of the daily load). There are towns - including Ketchikan - which have built an ersatz town outside of the real one to accommodate the crowd. There would really be nothing to do with them all if they didn't. I can't prove it in Ketchikan's case, but it is certainly true elsewhere, that the cruise lines funded and/or own the newly created shopping district. No reason to part with that revenue, genuine local artifacts and mementos fresh from the container via alibaba.com. 

Since the at-shore experience in their destinations is a created one anyway, why spend the capital and fuel to have a boat at all? Make it virtual.....

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Mr. City, 

This is the only”cruise ship” you should be on...

 

 

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16 minutes ago, DDW said:

I think (and hope) we are moving towards a virtual Cruise Experience. It is there in all but name already. You get on a "ship", it is gently tilted to and fro for  few hours, then you are disgorged into a Las Vegas hotel set type stage where you experience "local culture" for 4 hours, get back in the "ship" and go on. That is those that can be torn away from attractions on the ship itself: swimming pools, beaches , race tracks, casinos, carnival rides, water slides, etc. 

In Ketchikan (population about 12,000) if there are four large cruise ships at the docks, they disgorge 14,000 people (for the convenience of the local vendors, there is a calendar published of the daily load). There are towns - including Ketchikan - which have built an ersatz town outside of the real one to accommodate the crowd. There would really be nothing to do with them all if they didn't. I can't prove it in Ketchikan's case, but it is certainly true elsewhere, that the cruise lines funded and/or own the newly created shopping district. No reason to part with that revenue, genuine local artifacts and mementos fresh from the container via alibaba.com. 

Since the at-shore experience in their destinations is a created one anyway, why spend the capital and fuel to have a boat at all? Make it virtual.....

A Holodeck?

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Back in the day, cruise ships were warmly welcomed to most islands in the Caribbean, and their passengers supported a whole host of shoreside businesses, including duty free jewelry, camera and fine china shops, restaurants and bars, some tours, and of course taxis. Ships were smaller, and passengers were rich(er), and but even then the vibe was about getting as many greenbacks out of the tourist wallets and handbags as possible in 8 hours. Now the ships are like giant horizontal all inclusive hotels, with gift shops galore, and my understanding is that a lot of passengers don't even get off the ship in port. Many/most that do are looking for a cheap rum drink or a beer, and" three t-shirts for $10" (that's a phrase you hear bandied about by local retailers). Retailers also feel online shopping has forever changed their market for the worse. Taxi drivers still make out okay in most ports when the ships are in (as do the local governments, as they get a "head tax" for every disembarking passenger), but most locals loathe the congestion and frequent know-it-all, condescending, and occasionally outright racist chatter from passengers. A big trend now is cruise ship operators buying or leasing a beautiful cove or beach, and turning it into a private day trip site for their passengers only. Cases in point, Little San Salvador and Great Stirrup Cay in the Bahamas. Anyway, I guess you can put me in the "they're a curse" column, although I know a couple folks (non-sailors) who seem to get a big bang out of it...different strokes and all that I suppose.

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Unfortunately for a lotta folks cruise ships are the only way they get to experience being at sea.  I'm not surprised a that some love it because being at sea is really cool, but if that's all you know you have nothing to compare it to.  Like if the only ice cream you've ever had is Breyers, you might think Breyers is awesome.  Until you've had homemade organic you don't know the difference.

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38 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

A Holodeck?

Yes, but the technology exists today to do it. No longer would you have to do seperate cruises to experience Venice, Greece, the Inside Passage, etc: it can all be done on one 7 day cruise. Even today you can experience Paris, New York, Ancient Egypt, Venice, and many others all within a 2 hours walk along the strip in Vegas. At least, that's what the brochure says, and honestly most people can't tell the difference.

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Having gone on my first and last cruise this summer at the insistence of my sister, I can tell you it's most definitely not for me and my family feels the same way. That said, I'm glad I did it in the same sense that I'm glad I went to Vegas once (of my own volition). It's an interesting experience unlike any other.

As for whether it's a blessing or a curse, I'll defer to the judgement of the residents of Ketchikan, Skagway, and the other ports of call for these floating hotels. I suspect that no matter how much they may grumble, very few would be willing to go back to the good old days before the ships arrived. If the ships were to go away, many of those places would shrink back to well below their current off-season population levels. 

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We lived in Avalon, Santa Catalina Island for a few years in the late nineties. For those of you who are geographically impaired, Catalina is in California.

My wife worked for a company that owned three restaurants/bars right down on front street (Crescent Avenue for the perfectionists), and her remuneration package included a significant sum to be spent in those bars and restaurants each month, which we struggled to utilize fully.

Tuesday was cruise ship day back then. Usually 2 would leave LA harbor Monday  circle around  all night and arrive just off the breakwater Tuesday AM. The guests were lightered ashore, would rent a golf cart for an hour, walk the waterfront, buy a t-shirt, go out to Descanso, come back and by noon wonder 'What the hell else is there to do here?' 

We got to know most of the bartenders quite well and were kind of amused at the antics they'd pull on the cruise ship patrons, usually involving drink specials. When the visitors finally drifted into the El Galleon or Antonio's they'd inevitably sit at the bar since they get free food aboard ship. The chalkboard special cocktail would usually be something like the Ship Tipper (bar slang for Cheap Tipper), something like gin and Bailey's Irish Cream/ rocks in a small tub or similarly curdled and unappetizing concoction.

The guest would inevitably take a sip, pay up and leave, freeing up the stool for a real customer. Since cruise ship patrons were notoriously bad tippers it was a quick way to make room for better customers, or so it was explained to us.

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Curse.  In fact,  a plague.  A pestilence.  A pox on all our houses. 

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They're the social equivalent of a 1000' Jet Ski.

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1 hour ago, IStream said:

Having gone on my first and last cruise this summer at the insistence of my sister, I can tell you it's most definitely not for me and my family feels the same way. That said, I'm glad I did it in the same sense that I'm glad I went to Vegas once (of my own volition). It's an interesting experience unlike any other.

As for whether it's a blessing or a curse, I'll defer to the judgement of the residents of Ketchikan, Skagway, and the other ports of call for these floating hotels. I suspect that no matter how much they may grumble, very few would be willing to go back to the good old days before the ships arrived. If the ships were to go away, many of those places would shrink back to well below their current off-season population levels. 

I am slightly ambivalent myself for the same reasons. There is a big difference for example between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan, and one could easily surmise a lot of that difference is due to the large number of cruises that land at Ketchikan and the small number at Rupert. On the other hand, any benefit to the community is highly seasonal - May thru Sept up there. After the first week of October, New Town in Ketchikan must become Ghost Town. It had a very different feel than say Bar Harbor, where the residents dreaded cruise ship day, but took the money they could and then life went on the rest of the week. 

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I think they're wonderful. The people who travel on them won't go where I go (mostly, they can't get there) and I won't go where the big cruise ships go.

Win-win.

Other than that, a pox on the lot of them and their passengers. We get quite a few turning up in Hobart and the locals basically hate them. Every Saturday there's a big Salamanca Market with produce stalls, crafts, food etc etc. The cruise ship pax are notorious for clogging up the place, looking at everything and spending pretty much no money while getting in the way of the locals, who want to shop, have a coffee or lunch, meet friends etc etc.

Best solution - keep jacking up the port fees until it really hurts. Put the money into infrastructure for the locals or into an investment account (anything except become dependent on the revenue stream so they don't own *you*).

If the cruise ships threaten to take their business elsewhere - bonus.

FKT

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So let me offer an alternative perspective....

Go small (ship size) and go expensive...

I've sailed small boats my whole life.  Sailed offshore for all 4 years at USNA.  Owned 6 boats.  J-24, Santana 30/30, Bene First 30E, J/109, S2 9.1, Bene First 310.  

I'm a 20 year Navy guy who did 3 cruises on big gray ships.  My wife is a 20 year navy gal who did one cruise on a big gray ship.

We love being at sea.  Don't care if we ever pull in to a port.  We've done several Disney cruises (mostly on the small ships, Wonder and Magic).  And an Alaska to Victoria BC on a Holland ship.  Again, couldn't care if we ever pull in.  But love being at sea.  Love sitting on a lounge chair on the promenade and reading a book.  Holland America (old folks cruise line) and Disney (family oriented) are about as far from Carnival or Royal Caribbean as you can get.  Not a lot of loud drunk folks.  Good food, nice piano bars that are not crowded.  Real restaurants with real food/wine, etc.

If you get on a gigantor ship, well, that's different...and they are a curse.  But I'd love to do a 14 day trans Atlantic trip or a 14 day cruise through the Panama Canal on a smaller ship, where almost all the days are at sea.  Did I mention I love being at sea?  I loved it on big gray ships, and I love it on "small" higher quality cruise ships too...

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There is probably a positive economic balance to cruise ships, despite how distasteful it is to have one in your backyard. Sure the passengers are "ship tippers" and don't spend a lot while on shore leave, but port fees, pilot charges, chandlery (dairy, fresh produce, etc. that they need to replenish) and waste handling all add up. I live 25 miles out of town on a tour bus route that takes cruise shippies out to see the fall colours and a pictuesque fishing village. A local business - maple syrup and gifts - asked to be made a 'stop' for the tour buses and on cruise ship days there is a steady stream of tourists through his shop. They may only be buying maple-roasted peanuts, but he is selling more than he would otherwise. Some local taxi and limousine services offer the shippies 'custom' tours - they even come down my cul-de-sac road to show off the 'wild' deer that are the bane of my vegetable garden; I am sure the 'custom' tours are money makers for the drivers. I would rather not have the pestilance of cruise ships, but I am pretty sure they are doing some good for the local economy.

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I’ve never been in one and don’t care to in the future. My family went on a cruise to Bermuda a number of years back to celebrate my parent’s 50th wedding anniversary. My Dad’s a history nut and my Mom was a housewife who liked to sit in front of slot machines in Atlantic City. I suggested a Gettysburg trip and my Dad said yes- the sisters said nope, cruise only.

I stayed home with my 2 little daughters. I was not taking them aboard a ship for several days. Parents, 5 siblings and a niece and nephew went. Half loved it and the smart half hated it. Mom was in poor health and enjoyed the routine. My sisters and one brother liked drinking for 18 hours a day. Apparently, you can get a booze included package. They didn’t and each had about $1,000 bar bill to pay before getting off the ship.

 The rest were bored after 6 hours or so and noticed how slow the ship was cruising. My Twinbro had to take care of my Mom( sisters unable to be of any use in that regard) and couldn’t wait to be done with the trip. 

The ship hauled ass back to it’s drop off port after the cruise about twice as fast as on the way to Bermuda. 

Sisters have cruised since and everyone else said never again.

 

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Portland, ME built a fancy new cruise ship terminal about 10 years ago and at first the locals smiled on the added tourism. Then the sidewalk vendors started showing up and as more ships visited the crowding on sidewalks and crosswalks started taking a toll.

It's not uncommon to have 2 and 3 ships at a time in during the summer months, especially during hurricane season when they get diverted from Bermuda and other ports.

I haven't read any data on economic benefits yet, but a lot of locals don't go down to the old port during the warm months like they used to. Hopefully the exposure will lead to more drive up traffic as people realize there's so much more than the waterfront to see and do, but it sure screws up my fun factor in the summer.

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I'm pretty sure that, thanks to cruise ships, there are fewer hotel rooms in Bermuda today than 40 years ago. With the hotels went all of the service jobs. I'm convinced it's been an economic negative for most people on the island. 

I'd do a small cruise, we're considering one of those small ship river tours in Europe, but so much of my time is already taken by sailing and skiing. I turn 65 next week and a season pass at Taos goes from $1,095 to $575.  Sadly there is no discount on heli-skiing in Canada, and I already have 2 trips planned. 

I've had a lot of night encounters with cruise ships, and in my experience they often don't respond to the VHF hail, but go ahead and alter course. Commercial shipping is more likely to engage in a little banter at 2 AM. 

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9 hours ago, Crash said:

So let me offer an alternative perspective....

Go small (ship size) and go expensive...

I've sailed small boats my whole life.  Sailed offshore for all 4 years at USNA.  Owned 6 boats.  J-24, Santana 30/30, Bene First 30E, J/109, S2 9.1, Bene First 310.  

I'm a 20 year Navy guy who did 3 cruises on big gray ships.  My wife is a 20 year navy gal who did one cruise on a big gray ship.

We love being at sea.  Don't care if we ever pull in to a port.  We've done several Disney cruises (mostly on the small ships, Wonder and Magic).  And an Alaska to Victoria BC on a Holland ship.  Again, couldn't care if we ever pull in.  But love being at sea.  Love sitting on a lounge chair on the promenade and reading a book.  Holland America (old folks cruise line) and Disney (family oriented) are about as far from Carnival or Royal Caribbean as you can get.  Not a lot of loud drunk folks.  Good food, nice piano bars that are not crowded.  Real restaurants with real food/wine, etc.

If you get on a gigantor ship, well, that's different...and they are a curse.  But I'd love to do a 14 day trans Atlantic trip or a 14 day cruise through the Panama Canal on a smaller ship, where almost all the days are at sea.  Did I mention I love being at sea?  I loved it on big gray ships, and I love it on "small" higher quality cruise ships too...

Have you looked into cruising on a commercial ship?  Some shipping companies have passenger accommodations.  I did some merchant shipping on my 3rd mate license, I loved it.  25 to 30ish crew aboard, get to be at sea without the crowds.

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1 hour ago, Cruisin Loser said:

I'd do a small cruise, we're considering one of those small ship river tours in Europe,

Those look really appealing but I know people who have taken them.

"O/K but very expensive" was the attitude. They won't go back.

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Mostly a curse. Have done several both big and small. Smallest was 60 PAX to the Yasawa group in Fiji.Several decades ago ..Awesome very laid back. Put the bow on a beach and tie to a tree every night. Worst...Alaska out of Seattle... Walmart bus. We never do excursions, preferring to have a rental car delivered to the port so we can head out to get away from the crowds and investigate the country ourselves.  Did the Nile a couple of decades ago and we had our own guide for 2 weeks. It was awesome. Another thing we have done that was awesome is self drive on canals of France.

Doing something a little different next month. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Clipper Group of 20 or so from the club so should be good.

VM

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Well, if you’re already an overfed  N. American (stats show that, nowadays, most nutrition-related deaths in industrialized countries are related to overeating, not malnourishment —per the book, “Homo Deus”, which I'm currently reading) — then cruise ships are a massive blessing.  Where else can you get such affordable, comfortable all-you-can eat buffets, and on a regular daily schedule?  (Saving you the trouble of having to search out possibly pathogen-bearing food ashore prepared by locals, whose language is foreign to you).  And you can eat with other likeminded people and talk about the things common to your socioeconomic-cultural bracket while gorging.  Bigly. 

:-)

(That’s mean.  Well, only sort of.  Friend of mine who did deliveries for a while said he always knew when a cruise ship had showed up b/c you could smell the boiling fryer fat wafting over the anchorage...)

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34 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

.  And you can eat with other likeminded people and talk about the things common to your socioeconomic-cultural bracket while gorging.  Bigly. 

 

My parents latched onto big ship cruises during the "salad days" of their retirement.  They'd go once or twice a year, and this was the key.  Putting away mountains of "free" food and booze and mingling with the upper-end Poor White Trash from other states and countries.  It made them happy.  A couple of times, they tried to express the revelations they'd got from sharing stories with people from all over the world (meaning fellow-passengers, of course, not natives of the places they'd visited).  "No matter where you go, it's the same: them "coloreds" and "furaners" are rooning the whole planet!"  

Maybe Trump should have dumped his Dad's money into cruise ships instead of casinos.

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I mentioned this in another thread. I despise air travel. In two days, I have to fly home to NC from Athens. Get to the airport by 0600 for an 11 hour ordeal with a 7 hour time change. I am dreading it.

I would much rather go by ship. In the USN I made a similar round trip, and loved it. I hear that there are still some old time “liners.”  I understand they make a simple crossing with no cruise ship bull shit.  I would love that.  

If I ever cross the pond again, that’s how I’ll go. No more flying for me. 

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24 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I mentioned this in another thread. I despise air travel. In two days, I have to fly home to NC from Athens. Get to the airport by 0600 for an 11 hour ordeal with a 7 hour time change. I am dreading it.

I would much rather go by ship. In the USN I made a similar round trip, and loved it. I hear that there are still some old time “liners.”  I understand they make a simple crossing with no cruise ship bull shit.  I would love that.  

If I ever cross the pond again, that’s how I’ll go. No more flying for me. 

It used to be the preferred method to cross the Atlantic. The Pan American Clippers were the way to cross the Pacific (until the Japanese decided they wanted the Pacific all to thier selves). But, hop on the QE II and enjoy the sail.

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48 minutes ago, Bull City said:

I mentioned this in another thread. I despise air travel. In two days, I have to fly home to NC from Athens. Get to the airport by 0600 for an 11 hour ordeal with a 7 hour time change. I am dreading it.

I would much rather go by ship. In the USN I made a similar round trip, and loved it. I hear that there are still some old time “liners.”  I understand they make a simple crossing with no cruise ship bull shit.  I would love that.  

If I ever cross the pond again, that’s how I’ll go. No more flying for me. 

Remember when flying was a fun and exciting adventure?

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19 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Remember when flying was a fun and exciting adventure?

Yep...when earning my pilots license. It was a job, then and now.  Now, I suspect the only way I would want to fly is if I were sitting in the pilot or copilot seat.  The world can have thier overstuffed “sausage carriers.” Is it not a coincidence that an airliner’s fuselage and a sausage casing have the same shape????

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6 hours ago, bgytr said:

Have you looked into cruising on a commercial ship?  Some shipping companies have passenger accommodations.  I did some merchant shipping on my 3rd mate license, I loved it.  25 to 30ish crew aboard, get to be at sea without the crowds.

We checked out sailing with the island supply boat out of Rarotonga, Cook Islands 19  years ago. It sounds romantic but in reality it was a 7 day round trip to 3 islands where our time ashore at each one was only as long as it took to offload cargo. That's a lot of sea time in a small cabin on a small cargo ship for not much tourism. We passed.

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4 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

You mean this: 

Or this? :-)

 

 

BF939B3E-A7A9-4BB9-9702-C91F912A7882.jpeg

I was thinking more this;

image.png.586280d11bacee4f60248a9d556f1eeb.png

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3 hours ago, Willin' said:

We checked out sailing with the island supply boat out of Rarotonga, Cook Islands 19  years ago. It sounds romantic but in reality it was a 7 day round trip to 3 islands where our time ashore at each one was only as long as it took to offload cargo. That's a lot of sea time in a small cabin on a small cargo ship for not much tourism. We passed.

Ya but I was replying to a specific individual who said he loves being at sea, and does not care about being in port.

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curse, fuck cruise ships and fuck the cruise industry. 

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19 hours ago, Bull City said:

I mentioned this in another thread. I despise air travel. In two days, I have to fly home to NC from Athens. Get to the airport by 0600 for an 11 hour ordeal with a 7 hour time change. I am dreading it.

I would much rather go by ship. In the USN I made a similar round trip, and loved it. I hear that there are still some old time “liners.”  I understand they make a simple crossing with no cruise ship bull shit.  I would love that.  

If I ever cross the pond again, that’s how I’ll go. No more flying for me. 

Those in the airline industry call it "the race to the bottom" and I think that phrase applies to the cruise ship industry to.  If you think about air travel, for 99% of the traveling public, when you go to buy an airline tix, the primary driver is low price.  You can still fly across the country or to Europe today for about the same price you would have paid back in the 1980s.  So airlines have had to decrease services, increase passenger loading, and decrease labor costs as much as possible.  You get what you pay for.  As consumers, we have "voted" with our wallets, and now we are reaping the "rewards" of so doing.

I see the same pattern occurring in the cruise ship industry.  Its hard to blame the industry for responding to consumer demand.

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CURSE

Not even a question. Hordes of morons wandering around and then herded back to their mobile CAFO.

(Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation)

 

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The only cruise I could possibly consider is one on Trinity House's Patricia.  https://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/patricia-voyages  The mere idea of being stuck in a floating motel  fills me with dread.

A client of mine did a round the world cruise, chatting to him afterwards they seemed to spend their time playing bridge and smuggling booze on board.  He complained about it all being bit of a rush ie half a day to see all of Tasmania FFS.

When SWMBO and I were sailing in the West Indies and we went ashore on a cruise ship day, I always wore the outboard kill cord round my neck.   The local cabbies would spot it and not hassle us. 

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20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Remember when flying was a fun and exciting adventure?

Yes, I do. People used to dress and behave well. In 1959, at age 10, our family flew NY to Paris. 16 hours on a Super Connie. It was great fun. 

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2 hours ago, Crash said:

Those in the airline industry call it "the race to the bottom" and I think that phrase applies to the cruise ship industry to.  If you think about air travel, for 99% of the traveling public, when you go to buy an airline tix, the primary driver is low price.  You can still fly across the country or to Europe today for about the same price you would have paid back in the 1980s.  So airlines have had to decrease services, increase passenger loading, and decrease labor costs as much as possible.  You get what you pay for.  As consumers, we have "voted" with our wallets, and now we are reaping the "rewards" of so doing.

I see the same pattern occurring in the cruise ship industry.  Its hard to blame the industry for responding to consumer demand.

Exactly - if airline tickets cost the "same" as they did back in the days when it was fun to fly then everything would cost 1st Class prices.

Flying in Ruling Class is still as nice as all flying was BITD - well, except for all the security hassles anyway.

When I flew to Europe in the mid-70's it cost about 3 weeks pay - for a good job. It's cheaper now in actual dollars, not adjusted dollars.

My local boatyard owner flew his family back to Germany in 1956 - it cost him 15 grand - then. :o The price of a house.

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I might maybe go on a Star Clipper trans-Atlantic cruise. I read one review on a cruise ship site and the irate old person writing in said the captain was a maniac, would not shorten sail in storms, and during dinner the ship heeled over so far said old person fell over and then all the food on the table slid off the table and onto them. I would pay some $$$ to see THAT :lol:

Also in another review a passenger wanted to sail the ship and the crew said he was such a good helmsman he could have his own watch! Seems 0000-0400 was free and his for the taking :rolleyes:

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17 hours ago, bgytr said:

Ya but I was replying to a specific individual who said he loves being at sea, and does not care about being in port.

My father took the extended family on a few cruises. It was an OK way to have a family reunion. I preferred the days at sea to the days in port - lying in the shade with a book watching the ship's wake.  The new ships are mini-amusement parks, and may not have space for that sort of indolence. 

 

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Well it is a cruise ship...

 

 

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On 10/5/2019 at 12:13 PM, steele said:

I agree with most of this, but we are forgetting what a bargain cruises can be compared to other vacations. A name brand Caribbean cruise with an outside room including food can be had for under $150 per person per day. This is less than an OK hotel room in most destination cities. Hell a one day ticket to Disneyland is over $100, as are lift tickets at most better ski areas. Most travelers have limited vacation budgets, especially retirees, and at those prices it is easier to see how they fill those huge ships.

I am not implying modern cruise ships are a good thing at all, but it does help explain why they are so popular.

HAHAHA yea, $$100 to ski...  That is so 2005.

Since posting the 10 Most Expensive Lift Tickets In The USA back in 2016, the price at Vail/Beaver has gone from $175 to $209. Another Vail owned resort, Breckenridge is a close 2nd with their single day, adult lift ticket going for a whopping $189 .

 

It is actually cheaper for a week long family vacation to buy a season pass when they go on sale in the spring, but resorts (Vail industries) have caught on and now require instate residency...  

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We get 4-5 a month. They anchor way out and ferry the inmates ashore. They spend a bit, clutter the place up a bit, and by 3:00pm they're all gone.

What strikes me is the very high percentage of massively obese people among them. Many of those fuckers look like they're wearing a Sumo suit, can't walk or breathe normally, and half of them are under 30.

A good idea for future cruise ship design: A conveyor belt system (with XXXXL seats) that carts the inmates from their cabin to the buffet/bar/poker machines. They'll pay extra to not have to walk.

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6 hours ago, Whinging Pom said:

A client of mine did a round the world cruise, chatting to him afterwards they seemed to spend their time playing bridge and smuggling booze on board.  He complained about it all being bit of a rush ie half a day to see all of Tasmania FFS.

That's heaps of time. In fact the place is so boring & backward that there's no need to even go ashore, really.

FKT

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27 minutes ago, Happy said:

We get 4-5 a month. They anchor way out and ferry the inmates ashore. They spend a bit, clutter the place up a bit, and by 3:00pm they're all gone.

What strikes me is the very high percentage of massively obese people among them. Many of those fuckers look like they're wearing a Sumo suit, can't walk or breathe normally, and half of them are under 30.

A good idea for future cruise ship design: A conveyor belt system (with XXXXL seats) that carts the inmates from their cabin to the buffet/bar/poker machines. They'll pay extra to not have to walk.

Dad brought back pics of a pool bar, where the clientele were wedged into truck-inner tube-sized floats.  All they had to do was drift up to the bar to grab another drink.  First time in 40 years I saw my dad in a swim suit.  :wacko:

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Yikes, I used to pay under $200 for a weekday + nights season pass. Snoqualmie, but it was also a 45 minute drive from work.

 

I haven’t been on a cruise, but last month I was on a jet ski tour with a couple from one of those hybrid sail+cruise vessels. I had to yell repeatedly at the woman to stop her d@mn jet ski because there were swimmers in the water ahead of us. Her reply: I thought that was a beachball. To this day, I don’t think she realizes how close she was to learning about the French Polynesian definition of “manslaughter”.

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A friend of mine, Andrew Prossin, a sailor and a native of Cape Breton, runs One Ocean Expeditions:

"Committed to environmental and social responsibility, we offer personalized marine experiences to the Antarctic Peninsula, South Georgia, the Falkland Islands, Svalbard, Greenland, the Canadian Arctic, Canada's East Coast, Chile, South & Central America, Scotland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands."

I haven't had the time to go on one of their cruises yet but a number of my sailing friends have and enjoyed it immensely.

For those who are into Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/oneoceanexpeditions/

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Apparently not "committed" enough to refrain from hauling boatloads of tourists into the formerly wild places.  

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On a recent holiday we mixed it up a bit.  River cruise from Budapest to Amsterdam was excellent - about 150 passengers, 2 weeks, lots of shore trips, had a ball (we did a similar river cruise on Mekong a couple of years ago and thoroughly enjoyed that too).  The river cruise was a surprise birthday present for a mate who had previously said the worst thing he could imagine was a cruise on a liner - but he thoroughly enjoyed the river trip.

Then in Norway at 2 fabulously scenic locations (Geiranger and Flam), the horizon was blotted out by a massive Carnival line cruise ship (about 2000+ passengers).  Horrific.  And reminiscent of Santorini.  We hated to see them in those places - and the crowds they disgorge bring very little economic benefit to the locals.

Then we went up the west coast of Norway on a Hurtigruten ship - working ships that carry passengers - about 500 passengers, but the ship is not much smaller than a cruise ship.  Not luxurious, but more comfortable than we were expecting.  A great way to see the coast and islands.  We went north to the Lofoten Islands, then back south to Bergen.  Would definitely do it again.  

Then from Stockholm to Helsinki we caught the overnight ferry - these ships are about the same size as the Hurtigruten ones, but carry 2000 passengers!  It had 2 floors (can't bring myself to say "decks") of shops!!  It was OK - well run to deal with the crowds, but it was purely A to B.  It beat flying, but was a bit too madding crowds for me.

I will happily do another river cruise, highly recommend the Hurtigruten ships, but would never do a 2 week trip on a multi-thousand passenger cruise ship.

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28 minutes ago, toddster said:

Apparently not "committed" enough to refrain from hauling boatloads of tourists into the formerly wild places.  

Yes - it’s all in the marketing shtick.  I’d be “committed”, too, if i was charging $11k+ per head :-). This is a boat load of dollars (and it’s not the whole boat):

669D0DDE-7EAD-4931-82BA-C8AE46BF0D39.jpeg

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Travel the r2ak route, roughly. Camp on deck or get a cabin.

 

Alaska Marine Highway, not really a cruise ship.

passengers-sleeping-in-the-solarium-columbia-ferry-alaska-inside-passage-C8C962.thumb.jpg.16970d413f4f152b5ad10ecac3916fbb.jpg

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All you cruise haters: Who among us would not like to do an old-fashioned north Atlantic crossing a la QE2 or a liner of that sort? 

I still work long hours for a living, but I love the idea of reading books on deck during the day on such a voyage, dressing decently for drinks and dinner in the evening...betting on the day's sea miles.

Which reminds me of a great short story by one of the best- Dip In The Pool by Roald Dahl   https://roalddahlmycourse.weebly.com/dip-in-the-pool.html

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23 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

All you cruise haters: Who among us would not like to do an old-fashioned north Atlantic crossing a la QE2 or a liner of that sort? 

I still work long hours for a living, but I love the idea of reading books on deck during the day on such a voyage, dressing decently for drinks and dinner in the evening...betting on the day's sea miles.

Which reminds me of a great short story by one of the best- Dip In The Pool by Roald Dahl   https://roalddahlmycourse.weebly.com/dip-in-the-pool.html

I did it both ways on a Cunarder in the late stages of routine transatlantic liner traffic. It was an enjoyable and memorable experience but entirely different than modern cruise ships.

The ships were 22,000 tons for one thing, not 100K+ tons and about 900 passengers, not 5000 plus.

The comments about the economic benefits or lack of them to the ports visited differ greatly from published info though;

The Vancouver cruise industry stimulates on average nearly $3 million in direct activity to the local economy for each ship that visits Canada Place, generates nearly 7,000 jobs across Canada and $300 million in wages, and contributes $840 million to national GDP.

With well over 200 ship visits this year, you do the math.

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Transatlantics - We get the Cunard Queen Mary 2 in port here, as well as the more generic cruise ships, they are totally different from the QM2 - one looks like a ship, the others not so much... I know which one I'd trust to cross an ocean.

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Another vote for curse.  But a blessing (job security) for the investigators and environmental monitoring folks...(Have often wondered whether what you sometimes hear anecdotally —I.e., “someone said that...”— about waste discharge by some cruise ships was maybe untrue...well, turns out not.  And in some cases they’re not discharging human waste, but plastics and garbage...)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_ship_pollution_in_the_United_States

https://www.businessinsider.com/carnival-cruise-ships-dumped-sewage-waste-into-ocean-report-2019-4

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Blessing. Allows the uncouth tourists to be conveniently concentrated, contained, controlled so they cause a minimum of bother to local residents and cultured visitors.

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It gives my better half some job security and gives her insight into how on the edge they operate so no desire to participate. win/win.

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1 hour ago, El Boracho said:

Blessing. Allows the uncouth tourists to be conveniently concentrated, contained, controlled so they cause a minimum of bother to local residents and cultured visitors.

Also infects them with a weakening illness so they can't be arsed to get out of bed any more ever. Then they turn into politicians, televangelists, and youtube vloggers, like reverse butterflies.

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20 hours ago, Whinging Pom said:

The only cruise I could possibly consider is one on Trinity House's Patricia.  https://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/patricia-voyages  The mere idea of being stuck in a floating motel  fills me with dread.

A client of mine did a round the world cruise, chatting to him afterwards they seemed to spend their time playing bridge and smuggling booze on board.  He complained about it all being bit of a rush ie half a day to see all of Tasmania FFS.

When SWMBO and I were sailing in the West Indies and we went ashore on a cruise ship day, I always wore the outboard kill cord round my neck.   The local cabbies would spot it and not hassle us. 

We did a Windjammer Barefoot Cruise for our 10th anniversary, back before they went out of business. It was on the S/V Legacy, an old commercial vessel turned into a sailing ship of sorts.

I didn't count it as a "cruise" experience because it was small (~100 passengers) and very casual, and on a sailing ship not a floating high rise hotel. The food wasn't a massive all-you-can stuff extravaganza, and it was a cash bar after the complimentary rum swizzlers at cocktail hour every night.

It was a fun time.

Knowing what I know now about the VIs, I laugh about the "sailing" we did (the first night's 'cruise' was from Charlotte Amalie to Water Island FFS). But we didn't know much better, though we knew we weren't sailing far, and the crew was casual, engaging, and fun. I think we got as far as Virgin Gorda...but it wasn't like we swarmed the place and overran it. I'm not sure the local shops knew we were in port.

This is the passenger group photo, almost everyone was there for it.

Knowing what I know now about sailing and boats - and with Windjammer being gone - I'd not likely do another. But this sort of cruise is one of the few I'd not think of as a blight.

IMG00215.thumb.JPG.aef7452137ec80e26473713bd74d5f0d.JPG

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14 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
21 hours ago, Whinging Pom said:

A client of mine did a round the world cruise, chatting to him afterwards they seemed to spend their time playing bridge and smuggling booze on board.  He complained about it all being bit of a rush ie half a day to see all of Tasmania FFS.

That's heaps of time. In fact the place is so boring & backward that there's no need to even go ashore, really.

Not enough, you need to tell 'em about the mosquitoes, the foul waters, the expensive beer... no wait, tell 'em the local gov't is teetotallers and there it's a dry state!

Next week we're going to blow up the goddam bridges

- DSK

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I was thinking about the carbon footprint comparison of a commercial air crossing vs. an ocean liner. Anybody done the math?

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13 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

All you cruise haters: Who among us would not like to do an old-fashioned north Atlantic crossing a la QE2 or a liner of that sort? 

I still work long hours for a living, but I love the idea of reading books on deck during the day on such a voyage, dressing decently for drinks and dinner in the evening...betting on the day's sea miles.

Which reminds me of a great short story by one of the best- Dip In The Pool by Roald Dahl   https://roalddahlmycourse.weebly.com/dip-in-the-pool.html

My folks crossed from Le Harve to NYC. I forget the month, but it was cold and raw on deck, not suitable for reading.

North Atlantic, you know.

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5 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

My folks crossed from Le Harve to NYC. I forget the month, but it was cold and raw on deck, not suitable for reading.

North Atlantic, you know.

I have done the QM2 both ways (NY to Southampton and Southampton to NY). I was super stoked to be on true ‘liner’ capable of pressing on through North Atlantic storms and big seas…..and, well, we got royally screwed each way - flat calm and fog - sigh..........did get to read a lot though.

Important fun tip: if you want to do that crossing go Southampton to NY as you gain an hour each night vs losing an hour.

We hate the big cruise ships and the masses/feeders that seem to gravitate to them. On the smaller ship scale, we have had great luck with Windstar. Very small ships so they usually get to avoid the 'cruise ship' docks. As an example, we were on one cruise with them through Scandinavia and in every port city we were able to dock right downtown. Other trips we were anchored up right next to sailboats, yachts, etc. When you arrive somewhere there is no mass herding involved, you just leave the boat when you want to leave the boat. We are doing our 8th with them over the holidays – basically using the cruise as an excuse to do a lot of diving…I think the first Caribbean cruise we did with them the ship only had 100 people on board.

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not enough, you need to tell 'em about the mosquitoes, the foul waters, the expensive beer... no wait, tell 'em the local gov't is teetotallers and there it's a dry state!

Next week we're going to blow up the goddam bridges

- DSK

Some good ideas there.

WRT blowing up the bridges, no, just put a massive toll on them, payable only by some electronic key card issued free to residents, and unobtainable other than by post to a local address.

The Bruny Island ferry down the road from my place is getting impossible in the summer season. Also a lot of the tourists can't drive on narrow dirt roads and have zero common sense - they've been known to just stop in the middle of the road to take pix of something.

Cruise ships are best really for these people. Preferably cruise ships that don't come here at all.

FKT

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22 hours ago, Israel Hands said:

All you cruise haters: Who among us would not like to do an old-fashioned north Atlantic crossing a la QE2 or a liner of that sort? 

I still work long hours for a living, but I love the idea of reading books on deck during the day on such a voyage, dressing decently for drinks and dinner in the evening...betting on the day's sea miles.

Which reminds me of a great short story by one of the best- Dip In The Pool by Roald Dahl   https://roalddahlmycourse.weebly.com/dip-in-the-pool.html

A transatlantic crossing on a proper ocean liner is a completely different kettle of fish from getting bungied into straw markets between bouts at the all-you-can-eat on a different island every day for a week.

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Some good ideas there.

WRT blowing up the bridges, no, just put a massive toll on them, payable only by some electronic key card issued free to residents, and unobtainable other than by post to a local address.

The Bruny Island ferry down the road from my place is getting impossible in the summer season. Also a lot of the tourists can't drive on narrow dirt roads and have zero common sense - they've been known to just stop in the middle of the road to take pix of something.

Cruise ships are best really for these people. Preferably cruise ships that don't come here at all.

FKT

The unfortunate summer scourge of where I live too —a small island, and thankfully not accessible via cruise ship (or bridge).  But, the ferry that serves it is, in effect, a small quasi-cruise ship, bringing the tourist hoards in summer (with associated ferry line ups, overloads, etc to inconvenience our lives...).   [stops in road to take a pic of a...a...deer]  Which has led to a summer economy, which means that if you express skepticism of tourism, you’re deemed to be “against local businesses”.  No, I’m just against crowds :-)

Tough spot to be in for locals, to be a popular destination. Imagine how the poor penguins in heretofore-remote Antarctica feel, having the place all to themselves for many, many millennia, and now invaded every summer, chick-raising season, by those high-paying, red floater suit-wearing tourists... :-)

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