Quotidian Tom

The Stray Goat Julie B

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I'm about to start restoring the stray Goat Island Skiff that followed me home. Her name is Julie B and she needs a new home, but first she needs some work.

StrayGoatJulieB.jpg

Here's the story:

https://www.tropicalboating.com/2019/10/reviving-the-stray-goat

Any advice on the project will be appreciated!

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I guess. It's a design by Michael Storer. On Facebook, he's frequently advising people against bright ideas to make it stronger because they all make it heavier. Empty weight is supposed to be 125 lbs, IIRC. I haven't weighed this one but my brother and I picked it up and flipped it over with no trouble. Neither of us is in any danger of winning a Mr. Universe contest, so it doesn't weigh much.

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GIS has a very good reputation among small boat builders/sailors, and that one does not look terribly executed.

My only advice at this point: PAINT IT. You've lived in Florida long enuf to know what the sun does to clear coat finishes. Bright work is pretty and all, but the nicest thing you could do for that boat is to lay down some sunscreen pigment. By the time you realize the varnish is failing, you end up with ... well, that transom there. :( 

Will follow your progress with interest.

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9 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

My only advice at this point: PAINT IT. You've lived in Florida long enuf to know what the sun does to clear coat finishes.

If you mean the inside, I don't think I'll do that.

KeelStrips.jpg

See the shade cloth next to the Toyota van? That's where this boat lives, with the bow several feet inside the shade cloth. The filtered sunlight barely hits the bow in winter mornings when the sun is in the southern sky and no sun hits the rest of the boat at all.

I like the look of the bright interior finish and also like the fact that I can see whether the wood is rotting. Can't see what's happening under paint.

Also, the goal here is to sell the boat to raise money for the Sailing Center and I think it will bring more money this way.

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Fair enuf. Next owner's problem, I guess. There's some pleasure in scraping and varnishing every six months.

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I built a boat to his Beth design, which is a similar philosophy of good foils and light, stiff, modern ply construction. It sails like a hot damn and the GIS should be no different. Definitely no basic pirogue - it's got excellent pedigree.

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14 hours ago, Diarmuid said:

Fair enuf. Next owner's problem, I guess. There's some pleasure in scraping and varnishing every six months.

It comes at the end.

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I've been focused on a couple of powerboat projects but have made a bit of progress on the GIS.

I spent a lot of time wondering how I would get the intact, but mostly detached, runner off the bottom of the hull without tearing a hole in the bottom.

The answer turned out to be to cut the fillets with the Fein Multimaster and then gently pry it up. No damage.

This success led me to focus on the next question, what to use to replace the broken runner?

It's a hard question for two reasons: I don't know what I'd want to shop for and even if I did, I have only a Home Depot and a local lumber yard that has about the same stuff as Home Depot. What would be a good wood and where would I get it?

I asked the head of the local sailing center and he told me he had some pieces of a really nice exotic flavor of mahogany that someone had been using as boat lift bunks. Yes, really.

I went alone to get one and it turns out that a 10' 5" piece of mahogany that's 12" wide and 2.5" deep is a very heavy thing. I nearly dropped it trying to get it on top of my van.

Got it home and tried to cut off a usable slice and it made the table saw smoke and stopped the blade. We wound up sending it over the table saw in 4 passes of about a half inch depth each. A couple more passes to take an inch off the resulting strip, then some chewing with a power planer and now I have a piece that's darn close to an exact copy of the intact one.

Next up: some precision grinder work to prepare the bottom of the hull to attach the runners.

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When you give the interior its needed refinishing, I’d borrow a router with a round over bit and make the rail more butt-friendly.  It’ll hold finish better without the sharp corners.

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6 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

I've been focused on a couple of powerboat projects but have made a bit of progress on the GIS.

I spent a lot of time wondering how I would get the intact, but mostly detached, runner off the bottom of the hull without tearing a hole in the bottom.

The answer turned out to be to cut the fillets with the Fein Multimaster and then gently pry it up. No damage.

This success led me to focus on the next question, what to use to replace the broken runner?

It's a hard question for two reasons: I don't know what I'd want to shop for and even if I did, I have only a Home Depot and a local lumber yard that has about the same stuff as Home Depot. What would be a good wood and where would I get it?

I asked the head of the local sailing center and he told me he had some pieces of a really nice exotic flavor of mahogany that someone had been using as boat lift bunks. Yes, really.

I went alone to get one and it turns out that a 10' 5" piece of mahogany that's 12" wide and 2.5" deep is a very heavy thing. I nearly dropped it trying to get it on top of my van.

Got it home and tried to cut off a usable slice and it made the table saw smoke and stopped the blade. We wound up sending it over the table saw in 4 passes of about a half inch depth each. A couple more passes to take an inch off the resulting strip, then some chewing with a power planer and now I have a piece that's darn close to an exact copy of the intact one.

Next up: some precision grinder work to prepare the bottom of the hull to attach the runners.

I look forward to more pictures of progress.

Sounds like your Mahogany (Swietenia) may not actually be one of the many tropical woods sold as “mahogany”...given you found it heavy and hard to work it might be Ipe 69 lbs/ft3, hard Janka3,510   (very rot resistant and very hard so could be good choice for the use).

If it were “genuine” mahogany say Swietenia mahogani or Swietenia macrophyll it would be relatively light 37lbs/ft3  and easy to work but not hard janka 900-930

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That wood has to be something like red locust. One of the worst for smoking a saw blade or router bit. Did the smoke smell like a burning outhouse? If you put the piece of wood in water does it sink? That tells a lot. Whatever don't breath any dust from that jungle mystery wood!

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Nah -- almost certainly Khaya, or African mahogany. The giveaway is the size of the board: slabbed AM is frequently very wide, very long, and available in thicknesses to 12/4. I built a queen-sized bed out of two sticks of it: one 27" wide by 12' long by 2" thick. 

A board the size of Tom's will be heavy even if  relatively low-density AM, just because it's a damned big plank. Here are two sticks of 4/4 (nominal, nominally quartersawn) khaya on a 60" wide flatbed, wetted to show color & grain:

planks.JPG.e0ea823edb4a484b24d0e3479fbcbb7a.JPG

They are 14' long and the wider is about 22" across, inch and an eighth rough thickness. The reason they burn and bind on saw blades is due to pretty severe internal stresses, which are released during machining. The ribbon figure associated with AM is a product of reversing grain, where the tree twists one direction for a year or two, then twists the other, and so on. Then the very large tree is slabbed thru and dried, creating a board in static equilibrium but absolutely loaded with internal tension. The boards will even grab a chopsaw blade. Splitters or riving knives are an absolute must on a tablesaw if you want to live. Tom hit on another clever way to cope with the issue: take multiple shallow cuts, each pass widening the kerf as required & minimizing binding and burning. I do a lot of work in African mahogany, and it has some quirks for sure! You ain't buying New World (true) mahogany in those sizes, not for under $500 a stick.

Personally, I'd make the runners from black HDPE. Runners exist to take a beating. HDPE takes a beating, comes back for more.

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27 minutes ago, Diarmuid said:

Nah -- almost certainly Khaya, or African mahogany. The giveaway is the size of the board: slabbed AM is frequently very wide, very long, and available in thicknesses to 12/4. I built a queen-sized bed out of two sticks of it: one 27" wide by 12' long by 2" thick. 

A board the size of Tom's will be heavy even if  relatively low-density AM, just because it's a damned big plank. Here are two sticks of 4/4 (nominal, nominally quartersawn) khaya on a 60" wide flatbed, wetted to show color & grain:

planks.JPG.e0ea823edb4a484b24d0e3479fbcbb7a.JPG

They are 14' long and the wider is about 22" across, inch and an eighth rough thickness. The reason they burn and bind on saw blades is due to pretty severe internal stresses, which are released during machining. The ribbon figure associated with AM is a product of reversing grain, where the tree twists one direction for a year or two, then twists the other, and so on. Then the very large tree is slabbed thru and dried, creating a board in static equilibrium but absolutely loaded with internal tension. The boards will even grab a chopsaw blade. Splitters or riving knives are an absolute must on a tablesaw if you want to live. Tom hit on another clever way to cope with the issue: take multiple shallow cuts, each pass widening the kerf as required & minimizing binding and burning. I do a lot of work in African mahogany, and it has some quirks for sure! You ain't buying New World (true) mahogany in those sizes, not for under $500 a stick.

Personally, I'd make the runners from black HDPE. Runners exist to take a beating. HDPE takes a beating, comes back for more.

If Tom's plank is mahogany is should weigh around 80 lbs, if it is Ipe or the like it should weigh around 150 lbs.

If it is "african mahogany" ( Khaya spp. (Khaya anthotheca, K. grandifoliola, K. ivorensis, K. senegalensis) then it would be weigh in around 90 lbs, be less workable and less rot/insect resistant than mahogany (but still good ) and way more workable than Ipe. I agree with Diarmuid the chances of finding a genuine mahogany plank 12" by 10' are not high.

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African mahogany comes in big boards but it's not incredibly heavy.  

Iroko and Jatoba are both big and heavy, rot resistant, and the right piece of either could look like mahogany. 

 

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On 12/6/2019 at 12:50 PM, Rasputin22 said:

That wood has to be something like red locust. One of the worst for smoking a saw blade or router bit. Did the smoke smell like a burning outhouse? If you put the piece of wood in water does it sink? That tells a lot. Whatever don't breath any dust from that jungle mystery wood!

It smelled like normal burning wood. I haven't dunked it but wouldn't be at all surprised if it sinks. I'm already about done breathing the dust from it so won't breathe much more.

On 12/6/2019 at 4:59 PM, Diarmuid said:

Tom hit on another clever way to cope with the issue: take multiple shallow cuts, each pass widening the kerf as required & minimizing binding and burning. I do a lot of work in African mahogany, and it has some quirks for sure! You ain't buying New World (true) mahogany in those sizes, not for under $500 a stick.

Personally, I'd make the runners from black HDPE. Runners exist to take a beating. HDPE takes a beating, comes back for more.

My less clever idea was to break out the chainsaw. Sounds like that may have been a worse plan than I thought.

I had not considered plastic runners but it's a pretty good idea. I was thinking of a strip of fiberglass epoxied onto the bottoms for a bit more abrasion resistance.

I broke out the grinder today and took off the old glue and some surrounding paint on one side. I'll post some pictures before long.

I'll be interested to see if you all can identify the mystery boat lift bunk wood. It's not red like mahogany I have seen. It's brown with maybe just a hint of green in it but nothing you'd call red. Fine grain. I'll post some close-ups of it when I get a round tuit. Whatever it might be, it's waaay to nice for a boat lift bunk.

 

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18 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

It smelled like normal burning wood. I haven't dunked it but wouldn't be at all surprised if it sinks. I'm already about done breathing the dust from it so won't breathe much more.

My less clever idea was to break out the chainsaw. Sounds like that may have been a worse plan than I thought.

I had not considered plastic runners but it's a pretty good idea. I was thinking of a strip of fiberglass epoxied onto the bottoms for a bit more abrasion resistance.

I broke out the grinder today and took off the old glue and some surrounding paint on one side. I'll post some pictures before long.

I'll be interested to see if you all can identify the mystery boat lift bunk wood. It's not red like mahogany I have seen. It's brown with maybe just a hint of green in it but nothing you'd call red. Fine grain. I'll post some close-ups of it when I get a round tuit. Whatever it might be, it's waaay to nice for a boat lift bunk.

 

Redheart or more likely Greenheart from Guiana. The Greenheart slowly looses its green color and turns brown but a fresh cut will show the green you mention. About as tough and durable as you will every come across. Highly prized as keel stock for the Island Schooners and Sloops. I was gifted a nice piece of it I used as a grounding shoe on a 23' Island Sloop I built on St John. First time I spent a full day working with it on some door millwork I was covered with the dust from thickness planer and later sanding and it had the fresh cut greenish color to it. I jumped in the shower when I got home and was rinsing my face and head trying first to get the nasty dust caked in the corners of my eyes and when I had them rinsed well enough to see I glanced down at my feet and thought I was seening the shower scene from that Hitchcock movie where the slasher goes after Janet Leigh with the blood swirling down the drain at the Bates Hotel. I could have sworn it was blood and I checked my whole body expecting to find a bleeding wound but the Greenheart dust turns a bright Red when fresh water hits it. Same thing when you mix it with epoxy to try and fill the checks and seams that it is prone to after seasoning. 

    Red Locust is much the same and all of them have very toxic dust, the bugs an even marine critters can't touch it. I've had shop helpers that were particularly sensitive to the dust especially at their beltline, sleeve line or neckline where the shirt and pants when damp with sweat catch the dust and the dampness releases the toxins or whatever. I had a friend from St Thomas who had commissioned a recreation of a revenue schooner to be built on the beach in the old manner on Nevis. The ancient Nevisian boatbuilder told the guy to first get back on his boat and sail to Guiana and buy the biggest log of Greenheart he could find and bring it back to his little beach boatshed. The guy asked how he was supposed to ship the sail Greenheart telephone pole size log and the old timer told him he would find it on the bank of the river mouth from where it had been chopped from the jungle. He said that the loggers had to lash a couple of extra log of a lighter less dense wood to the Greenheart bole as it would sink if freshly cut and put into fresh water. He said that after sitting in the sun on the riverbank it would now float when put into the brackish water at the rivermouth and a little better when he towed it out in the saltwater on the long reach back up to Nevis! My friend said that was the longest slowest trip he ever took in his boat but he finally successfully got his keel to the builder who by then had made up most of the frames to have them ready to fit to the new keel.

the last schooner built in Nevis, the magnificent Alexander Hamilton. 

https://www.caribbeancompass.com/workboats.html

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8 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I could have sworn it was blood and I checked my whole body expecting to find a bleeding wound but the Greenheart dust turns a bright Red when fresh water hits it.

Now that you mention it, the pile left behind by the power planer got rained on and did look kinda red when it was wet.

On 12/6/2019 at 4:59 PM, Diarmuid said:

Personally, I'd make the runners from black HDPE. Runners exist to take a beating. HDPE takes a beating, comes back for more.

Thinking more about this, it might not be such a great idea. The GIS is a light boat with a design weight of 128 lbs. I've seen several discussions of the runners stiffening up the bottom. Plastic isn't stiff. Anyway, now that I've got a piece of greenheart or whatever it is to match the runner that came with the boat, the easy choice is to install it.

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15 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Redheart or more likely Greenheart from Guiana. The Greenheart slowly looses its green color and turns brown but a fresh cut will show the green you mention. About as tough and durable as you will every come across. Highly prized as keel stock for the Island Schooners and Sloops. I was gifted a nice piece of it I used as a grounding shoe on a 23' Island Sloop I built on St John. First time I spent a full day working with it on some door millwork I was covered with the dust from thickness planer and later sanding and it had the fresh cut greenish color to it. I jumped in the shower when I got home and was rinsing my face and head trying first to get the nasty dust caked in the corners of my eyes and when I had them rinsed well enough to see I glanced down at my feet and thought I was seening the shower scene from that Hitchcock movie where the slasher goes after Janet Leigh with the blood swirling down the drain at the Bates Hotel. I could have sworn it was blood and I checked my whole body expecting to find a bleeding wound but the Greenheart dust turns a bright Red when fresh water hits it. Same thing when you mix it with epoxy to try and fill the checks and seams that it is prone to after seasoning. 

    Red Locust is much the same and all of them have very toxic dust, the bugs an even marine critters can't touch it. I've had shop helpers that were particularly sensitive to the dust especially at their beltline, sleeve line or neckline where the shirt and pants when damp with sweat catch the dust and the dampness releases the toxins or whatever. I had a friend from St Thomas who had commissioned a recreation of a revenue schooner to be built on the beach in the old manner on Nevis. The ancient Nevisian boatbuilder told the guy to first get back on his boat and sail to Guiana and buy the biggest log of Greenheart he could find and bring it back to his little beach boatshed. The guy asked how he was supposed to ship the sail Greenheart telephone pole size log and the old timer told him he would find it on the bank of the river mouth from where it had been chopped from the jungle. He said that the loggers had to lash a couple of extra log of a lighter less dense wood to the Greenheart bole as it would sink if freshly cut and put into fresh water. He said that after sitting in the sun on the riverbank it would now float when put into the brackish water at the rivermouth and a little better when he towed it out in the saltwater on the long reach back up to Nevis! My friend said that was the longest slowest trip he ever took in his boat but he finally successfully got his keel to the builder who by then had made up most of the frames to have them ready to fit to the new keel.

the last schooner built in Nevis, the magnificent Alexander Hamilton. 

https://www.caribbeancompass.com/workboats.html

Sometimes I think the main purpose of keeping a thread going in SA is to act as a story trap. Sooner or later Rasper will come along with a good one.

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Sapele is another candidate. Relative of Khaya, but generally denser and harder.

Good advice from Rasputin on sensitivities to some of these woods. There's an exotic known as Canarywood that sets off my histamines and smells exactly like burning wire insulation when cut; tho the wood that 100% has my number is the humble hedge apple or Osage Orange, Maclura pomifera. Damn near wound up in the emergency room after bandsawing a tiny bit of that. Another Central American hardwood called Chechen really bothers some people, tho I've never had worse than a slight itching and very purple hands out of it, despite its secondary name of 'black poisonwood'. Pretty stuff, tho:

 

747537353_usb278.jpg.dd1a01f8dec8ae659f9106437f116dce.jpg

 

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On 12/8/2019 at 7:52 AM, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

It smelled like normal burning wood. I haven't dunked it but wouldn't be at all surprised if it sinks. I'm already about done breathing the dust from it so won't breathe much more.

My less clever idea was to break out the chainsaw. Sounds like that may have been a worse plan than I thought.

I had not considered plastic runners but it's a pretty good idea. I was thinking of a strip of fiberglass epoxied onto the bottoms for a bit more abrasion resistance.

I broke out the grinder today and took off the old glue and some surrounding paint on one side. I'll post some pictures before long.

I'll be interested to see if you all can identify the mystery boat lift bunk wood. It's not red like mahogany I have seen. It's brown with maybe just a hint of green in it but nothing you'd call red. Fine grain. I'll post some close-ups of it when I get a round tuit. Whatever it might be, it's waaay to nice for a boat lift bunk.

 

Howdy,

I'm the designer of the Goat Island Skiff.

Please don't do the runners in HDPE- they are a necessary structural element - The bulkheads and the skids break up the bottom panel into small rectangular areas - so it is pretty stuff but also very light. Hullweight is normally around 130 to 150 lbs - a 16ft boat lighter than a Laser - so it is quite a sophisticated structure. If you like I can shoot you a set of plans so less second guessing. My email is Top Left on https://storerboatplans.com. Or on mobile near the bottom of the page.

The runners last a  long time. And as they are not fastened on,  just glued, the damage part (if ever significant) can be planed off and a new top surface glued on. Looks like the original might not have been glued on very well. If it is greenheart or white oak or teak - these timbers can be tricky to glue.

But in reality the light boat means not much wear and tear on the wood - lots  of boats and they have been around since 2005 and the wood runners work fine.

I would suggest having a  look at the Goat Island Skiff Group on Facebook which has people building, repairing and sailing now. A very useful group.
https://web.facebook.com/groups/GoatIslandSkiff/

And a video of the Goat - there is a heap on youtube - maybe over 100 videos - one up - four up - light wind, strong wind - flat water, rough water - daysailing and expeditions.
 



Well ... 89 videos in this playlist. 



Best wishes
Michael Storer

Goat Island Skiff Plan Information

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Hi Michael,

Thanks for dropping by. I haven't messed with the Goat much this week so didn't look at this thread until now.

I hit one side with the grinder and removed the old glue, paint, and primer. I may do the other side tomorrow.

I'm already in your FB group and love the pics and info I find there.

Tom Ray

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Update on the runner project

I measured and learned that I misoverestimated the size of the "boat bunk" in the post above. I measured it today and it was 10' 5" long, about 8" wide (not 12) and about 2" thick, So recalibrate the weight calculation accordingly. Or don't. It's dense and heavy, whatever it is.

Here's a pic of the grain of the slice I cut into a new runner:

WoodGrain.jpg

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On 12/18/2019 at 2:49 PM, Leeroy Jenkins said:

I'm sticking with iroko

Trimming the tip of the new runner to size and planing it to shape, I found the wood to be tough to work, hard on blades, and prone to shredding.

Now I'm trying to get both runners and their spots ready to paint because I figure doing that now is easier than doing it after they're glued back on.

This brings up the question: paint with what, exactly?

I tracked down the original builder of Julie B on FB and this exchange ensued.

JulieBPaintQuestion.jpg

I didn't get an answer to that last question and don't wish to pester the guy.

There are some scuffs on the sides down into the primer so I want to touch those up when I paint the runners. I don't want it to look like vandals painted the boat.

 

 

 

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You can rub the paint with a bit of denatured alcohol.  If it comes off, it's latex.  If not, it's oil based.

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On 1/6/2020 at 4:03 PM, GMiller said:

You can rub the paint with a bit of denatured alcohol.  If it comes off, it's latex.  If not, it's oil based.

Hmm...

B25631B8-6D06-49A5-BA5C-1641D75B0257.jpe

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Yep, definitely oil based latex paint!  ...or is it latex oil based paint.  Now I'm confused :rolleyes:

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And lots of boring hours of sanding later, I finally got the runners and the hull ready to glue. It went... OK, I guess. Not great.

The old one still more or less held the shape of the hull so getting it to conform to the hull was pretty easy. Some weights and a ratchet strap at one end where the tip did not want to lay down.

PortRunnerGlued.jpg

The new one that I made from "greenheart" or whatever it is was a whole lot less cooperative. It still very much wanted to be straight. I wound up collecting every heavy object in the area and stacking it up, including a jug of cooking oil on one ratchet strap. Obviously a desperation move.

StbdRunnerWeighted.jpg

Stacked on top of the weights (and one ratchet strap) are pieces of brass or bronze that were part of a staircase railing that my father removed from his house in the 1990's. He had an inability to throw such things away, so they were still in his shed when he died. I inherited some of that disability and they've been floating around one of my sheds since 2015. I finally found a use for them!

Here's how that went:

StbdRunnerWeightGap.jpg

Yep, that's daylight showing through under one of the ratchet strapped weights. When the epoxy cured and I removed the weights and straps, the worst section looked like this:

StbdRunnerGap.jpg

It's like that in a few places, and there's one dip in the hull bottom where the other runner has the same problem. Now I'm wondering how to fill that gap? It's tiny enough that the tip of a West Marine epoxy injection syringe might or might not fit. I'm concerned that injected epoxy will just flow back out if I get it in there. My other thought was to thicken some epoxy and force it into the gaps with a putty knife. I'm not at all sure I could completely fill the various gaps, nor am I sure how I would know if I left air pockets in there.

RunnersGlued.jpg

The above pic shows the runners glued in place. I have never read the building plans/instructions for the Goat Island Skiff but I understand from following the Facebook group that the hull is to be covered with epoxy prior to painting. As the picture shows, I ground and then sanded off most or all of the old epoxy. Now I'm wondering how much of the exposed areas to cover with epoxy. Do I cover just the parts with exposed wood, or go all the way to the primer or maybe the top coat of paint? And how many coats are to be used?

I'm going to ask @boatmik on Facebook but older FB posts get hard to find quickly in the GIS group so I hope he will respond here where I can find the answers easily.

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Bog in a ziploc bag with corner cut off. Milk the tip empty each time you reposition it if it doesn't want to slide back in the gap. 

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7 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

Bog in a ziploc bag with corner cut off. Milk the tip empty each time you reposition it if it doesn't want to slide back in the gap. 

That's what @boatmik and a couple of others suggested on the Facebook GIS group, using epoxy thickened to peanut butter consistency.

Another poster suggested tilting the boat, taping the bottom side, and injecting liquid epoxy in the top side, using a hair dryer to make it runnier and blow it in the gap. That person also suggested attempting to get folded sandpaper in the gap to sand it first.

Because there are little columns of epoxy in some of the gaps, it seems to me that squishing thickened epoxy in there is going to be blocked by those in places, where the liquid should just run around them. Those same columns are likely to prevent effective sanding, so whatever amine blush is on the surface is likely to stay there, at least in places.

In a couple of places in my pic above, you can see that the gap is really tiny. Smaller than two layers of ziploc bag material, I think. So I'm inclined to go with the tilt and inject method but still thinking it over.

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Another issue I didn't mention: I did the first runner in the afternoon with air temp near 90. The epoxy kicked off really fast. I did the second one in the cool of the morning, probably around 70 degrees with light fog. When I was nearly done painting it onto the hull and runner, the epoxy started to turn milky. The only time I have seen it act that way was when water somehow got into the mix, like if I dropped a bead of sweat into it. That didn't happen, my mix cup was completely dry, and I couldn't figure out why it was doing that so I just continued. The remaining epoxy in the mix cup cured up clear and hard and the runner seems very firmly attached to the hull.

Can epoxy draw the fog out of the air as it's kicking off? And if it does, is the bond strength affected? Or what else might have been happening with it?

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2 hours ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

 

Because there are little columns of epoxy in some of the gaps, it seems to me that squishing thickened epoxy in there is going to be blocked by those in places, where the liquid should just run around them. 

Ever repack wheel bearings? The shit will shmutz in there.

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On 12/8/2019 at 12:49 PM, Diarmuid said:

There's an exotic known as Canarywood that sets off my histamines

Sipo (utile) does that to me.  I could cut one piece w/o a respirator and the next day I can barely breathe.  I've worked with sapele, AM, GM, Gabon ebony, Macassar ebony, cocobolo, teak, cumaru but none of them even comes close to what sipo does to me.

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I haven't worked with most of the exotics listed here but sawing yellow cedar will quickly nauseate me.

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5 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

Ever repack wheel bearings? The shit will shmutz in there.

I think Dex is right.  Only maybe instead of peanut butter consistency, go with mayonnaise consistency, which will let it "shmutz" in better.  Work in small batches, as it may take some time to shmutz it in.  If I remember correctly, it takes a couple minutes each to do an MGB wheel bearing correctly...

 

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On 3/16/2020 at 8:58 AM, Dex Sawash said:

Ever repack wheel bearings? The shit will shmutz in there.

I think the picture I posted doesn't show the problem well. In a couple of places, the gap was truly tiny, smaller than two layers of a plastic bag. I was not at all sure I could even get it started in there, much less get it to spread around and past columns of hardened epoxy.

So I went with the tilt and inject liquid epoxy method.

StrayGoatRunners.jpg

The upper runner in the pic is the new one, which had a couple of largish gaps, one of which is in the pic above. Close examination using a tiny flashlight shining from the far side revealed a few more gaps than I had previously noticed on the lower runner, which is original to the boat.

It seemed to work pretty well, though some epoxy did try to escape past my tape. I was watching for this and wiped off the drips and extended the taped area where that happened. Now I have the boat back on its trailer and am planning to use the bag method to spread epoxy over the runners and raw wood on the bottom.

Two questions on that: do I mix the epoxy in the bag or mix it in a cup and pour into a bag? And how many coats should I use?

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I mix in cup and then put in bag. I put the bag, corner down, in a coffee cup to hold it (as you would put a trash bag in a bin). Cut the corner tip after loading the bag.

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3 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

I mix in cup and then put in bag. I put the bag, corner down, in a coffee cup to hold it (as you would put a trash bag in a bin). Cut the corner tip after loading the bag.

Thanks I'll try that.

Any idea how many coats I should use? And if more than one, recoat before fully cured or let cure, wash off blush, sand, and recoat? Or what?

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Turns out the recommended answer is three coats.

I updated my blog post with some new comments and pictures.

I used the baggie dispensing method to get all the epoxy out onto the repair areas and that went pretty well.

SquirtedEpoxy.jpg

On the first coat, both runners blew up some bubbles in the epoxy as the wood heated up and the air in them expanded. The epoxy was still very wet at that point, so I just popped the bubbles with the sharp tip of my pocket knife.

On the second coat, applied after the epoxy was firm but tacky to the touch, the newly-fabricated runner showed no more bubbles. I figured this meant that the original runner would behave the same way. After brushing out the epoxy on that one, I took a lunch break and did some other stuff. When I returned, I found about 20 large, hardened bubbles in the epoxy. I'm glad this is the bottom of a boat that was never cosmetically perfect in the first place.

EpoxyBubbles.jpg

Yesterday evening I wiped down the cured epoxy with a wet detailing rag to remove amine blush. This morning's project will be to sand it a bit and apply the third coat. I'm a bit worried about the bubble spots because the second coat was bubbled up and this obviously means the first one didn't seal those areas completely, so if I get a good seal on the third coat, it will still mean only one coat is really doing the sealing instead of the recommended three coats. So maybe I should go for four or five?

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Do your clear coats of epoxy on a falling temperature. Rising temps and wood always means outgassing.

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What's a "falling temperature?"

Sincerely,

Floridians in Spring

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9 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:

What's a "falling temperature?"

Sincerely,

Floridians in Spring

Sorry. Do it in the evening while it's cooling down.

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1 hour ago, F_L said:

Sorry. Do it in the evening while it's cooling down getting less hot.

FIFY

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3 hours ago, F_L said:

Sorry. Do it in the evening while it's cooling down.

Hah! I knew what you were saying. Other stuff came up this morning so I didn't get it recoated. Maybe tomorrow evening.

Highs in the 80's and lows in the 60's are expected for the next month or so.

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Tom, nice project. "Goat Island Skiffs" oil on canvas board by yours truly.

GIS.thumb.jpg.dc79dad1b592a8b0351e1df958f07a34.jpg

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Love it, Bull City.

I've been sidetracked a bit because a friend asked me to help his son with a few fiberglass patches on his Livingston Catamaskiff. They live up the creek and I took this pic with my drone a few weeks ago, for those who don't know what a catamaskiff is:

LivingstonCatamaskiff.jpg

It's 14' long with a 40 hp Yamaha. Really neat little boat but cheap construction and light so it has a few cracks. He's a good kid but with schools closed has little to do so it's a good time to fix it up a bit. The boat lives on a lift and he has no trailer so I put one of my boats on the ground and moved my trailer bunks and guides. We'll find out this morning whether I guessed right about where they should be to hold his boat.

On the Stray Goat, I filed the epoxy bubbles down to stumps and then sanded the runners yesterday. Wiped them down and revealed a few shiny spots that I missed so those will get sanded today and maybe I'll get the next coat on.

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We interrupt this stray goat report for some grinder home-schooling.

GrindingCatamaskiff.jpg

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On 3/28/2020 at 3:11 PM, casc27 said:

Something went "crunch?"

Three somethings, one on each side and one in the middle of the bow.

I'm practicing conscientious social distancing and only making essential journeys, so yesterday I went to two West Marine stores.

I learned that since the last time I bought a gallon of West epoxy (maybe ten years ago?) they've come out with two new hardeners: a clear one and an extra slow one. Both of them require a different mixing spout than the one I have for 206 Hardener, but only one of the stores had 206 in stock.

We finished laying up fiberglass on the crunched edges today. Tomorrow we remove the console and do something about the fact that you can get under the boat and see sky through one of the mounting holes. After that a few patches of tiny dings with Marine Tex and it will be ready for paint.

I used my smaller skiff to take the kid home today. It's a 1958 Feathercraft Cartopper. 12' long, weighs 106 lbs, rated for 8 hp. He came away from the ride agreeing with me that 15 is a much better horsepower number for it. :D

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The Stray Goat project ran into further delays today and I added two items to my list of things I know, but should not.

1. Livingston used balsa core on the catamaskiff.

2. Ants like balsa core.

So it's not a great day when you learn stuff like that. At least, I don't know of a good way to learn those things.

Also learned that the DPO got a bit careless when loading the catamaskiff onto a trailer, resulting in pretty bad delamination of part of the bottom next to the keel. So my friend's kid developed his skills with the grinder a bit more. On the good news front, I found a secret stash of Tyvec (or some such) suits in my shop so he's not as dirty or itchy as he might have been.

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Tom, are you using a cabinet scraper to cut the bubbles & bumps off the green epoxy?  If not try one.

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On 3/31/2020 at 1:53 PM, Autonomous said:

Tom, are you using a cabinet scraper to cut the bubbles & bumps off the green epoxy?  If not try one.

I have used a razor and my pocket knife on green epoxy in the past, including in the past couple of days on the catamaskiff project.

On the Goat Island Skiff, I popped bubbles in wet epoxy on the first coat, filed off bubbles in hard epoxy on the second coat, and the third coat didn't get any bubbles. That might be because the first two sealed it or it might be because I took F_L's advice above and coated it in the evening.

 

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The catamaskiff project is done and the boat is now back on its lift with new interior paint. It's more or less the same color as the old Boston Whalers, which is not one I would have chosen but the owners are happy.

I got back to the Stray Goat project and she now looks like this:

HullBilliardGreen.jpg

Details here.

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On 5/15/2020 at 10:30 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I love seein' something old resurrected.   I hope ya get to enjoy her on a wet bottom for a while, Tom. 

Not all that old in this case. Built in 2015 if I'm remembering correctly.

I'm sanding down the underside and sides of the railings today, or was until I finished wearing out the sanding pad on my Fein tool. Just ordered a pair of new ones. I want to get the rails done before turning the boat back over because I don't like trying to get varnish to go up.

Thinking about doing the transom before flipping the boat too for the same reason, but I'll have to remove the vinyl lettering to do it. As shown in the topic post, it's kind of discolored toward the top and I'm not sure how far I want to go with cosmetics. This boat is never going to look like it was built (or restored) by a pro and I really just want to get out and sail in it.

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I started in on Varnishing The Stray Goat.

At least, that's what I set out to do. Instead I got involved in a little project that grew and then revealed a bigger project. Details at the link.

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I thought I only had one bigger project, repairing the bow of the boat. That grew into repairing the mast partner, relocating the boom downhaul fitting, removing and re-gluing the transom knees, and removing and restoring the rudder gudgeons. I updated the above post with details. I think I'll start a new post when/if I get to the part about actually applying varnish.

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On 6/26/2020 at 8:19 AM, Cacoethesic Tom said:

I thought I only had one bigger project, repairing the bow of the boat. That grew into repairing the mast partner, relocating the boom downhaul fitting, removing and re-gluing the transom knees, and removing and restoring the rudder gudgeons. I updated the above post with details. I think I'll start a new post when/if I get to the part about actually applying varnish.

Oh, and fooling with deck plates and making new holes in bulkheads. I didn't make a new post, just updated the above one with details on those things but a major milestone was reached. The first coat of varnish on the Stray Goat! I plan to put two more before allowing the boat out in the sun but I hope to get those done and be sailing pretty soon. I'll stack on more coats as time goes by.

1stVarnish.jpg

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On 10/8/2019 at 10:45 AM, Diarmuid said:

GIS has a very good reputation among small boat builders/sailors, and that one does not look terribly executed.

My only advice at this point: PAINT IT. You've lived in Florida long enuf to know what the sun does to clear coat finishes. Bright work is pretty and all, but the nicest thing you could do for that boat is to lay down some sunscreen pigment. By the time you realize the varnish is failing, you end up with ... well, that transom there. :( 

Will follow your progress with interest.

It has crossed my mind that I will be really, really tired of sanding and varnishing this boat before I'm done sanding and varnishing it.

OTOH, paint protects but also hides problems. I was able to see black rot forming around a deck plate's screws because the wood is varnished. I would have been blissfully unaware if the area were painted instead. I drilled out the holes to a larger size and filled them with epoxy putty but you can still see a couple of streaks of black by two of the holes in this pic:

DeckPlateHoles.jpg

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On 10/8/2019 at 7:34 AM, Cacoethesic Tom said:

Pic from the designer's page:

GIS-Bottom-560x630.jpg

That looks fun!

Don't let Bob Perry see that quarter wave....

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I put a third coat of varnish on the Stray Goat this afternoon so now it's time to reinstall the rudder, oar locks, and deck plates and get the rig out of storage. Noted ex-Anarchist Tom Scott has offered me any needed sailing bits from his old Precision 18. I hope to get it ready to sail some time this week.

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Today I put the deck plates back, installed the downhaul D-ring, and put the rutter back on the transom. Still have to put the oarlocks back on but otherwise it's ready for spars and ropes and sailing bits. Closer examination of the rutter shows that it has a few issues and also needs varnish but it looks OK to use for now. Someone "repaired" nicks in the aft edge of the centerboard with what rednecks call "100 mph tape" so I'm going to remove that and grind it out and repair it. I'll take a close look tomorrow and decide whether that repair has to happen before I get to go sailing.

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I did wind up doing a fiberglass repair to the daggerboard and reached another milestone: the first yard sail.

StrayGoatYardSail.jpg

That's Kailey the Cowdog on the right. She just turned 8.

There are lots of things wrong with this picture, starting with the sail position. I'm consulting with the GIS brain trust on Facebook to fix them. I was hoping for a first sail this morning but instead will be moving ropes and fittings around. Going fishing tomorrow so maybe a first sail on Monday, we'll see.

Looking at Michael Storer's rigging guide, I learned a funny new sailing term. What would be called a snotter on lots of boats is a "bleater" when it is on a Goat.

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Bleater, that's good. Does that imply some GISs are sprit sail rigged?

It looks like you might have lee helm with the sail that far forward.

I was going to rig a sprit sail and was excited about tying a cunt splice in the snotter.  Went with a balanced lug instead. Love that rig. 

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15 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Bleater, that's good. Does that imply some GISs are sprit sail rigged?

It looks like you might have lee helm with the sail that far forward.

I was going to rig a sprit sail and was excited about tying a cunt splice in the snotter.  Went with a balanced lug instead. Love that rig. 

No, the bleater is a lug rig accessory. Just a short piece from the end of the boom back to the mast. To keep the sail from flying away from the mast, it's looped around the other side of the mast and tied back to the boom. Pull on it and the boom moves back.

I have moved the halyard attachment point on the yard so the sail is now further back where it belongs. Looks like this:

StrayGoatRigAdjusted.jpg

We're taking it sailing tomorrow.

 

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1 hour ago, Cacoethesic Tom said:

No, the bleater is a lug rig accessory. Just a short piece from the end of the boom back to the mast. To keep the sail from flying away from the mast, it's looped around the other side of the mast and tied back to the boom. Pull on it and the boom moves back.

I have moved the halyard attachment point on the yard so the sail is now further back where it belongs. Looks like this:

StrayGoatRigAdjusted.jpg

We're taking it sailing tomorrow.

 

Where at?

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7 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:

Where at?

Beach complex. I'll probably get there mid-morning. Dennis is coming when he can, middayish. Come join the fun if you wish!

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Well that didn't go too well. The boat looks nice in the water.

GoatAfloat.jpg

But that's as far as I could get the daggerboard to go down. The rig is apparently still set too far forward because it had some lee helm. I was headed over to the Sailing Center dock because Dennis was set to arrive soon when a strong gust came along. I was going downwind with the sail all the way out. It picked up the boom and then got a large amount of upward lift in the top of the sail and very quickly capsized away from the sail. I was on the center seat opposite the sail so my weight helped get it going. I dove for the newly-uphill rail but too late and went swimming.

Righted the boat and got back in but it was very unstable, being half full of water. Before capsizing again, I noticed lots of bubbles coming out of the aft buoyancy compartment. I released the halyard and tied the sail into the boat before righting it again and getting back in to paddle over to the dock. Dennis showed up about that time and he got a 1500 gph bilge pump and an 18 volt drill battery out of his truck. Good thing too because bailing it all out with my little bailer was going to take half an hour at least. Rowed over to the ramp and put it back on the trailer. Rowing upwind was difficult, probably mostly because I don't row and the oars are not great.

When I got home I found that the forward buoyancy compartment also had water inside. Not sure exactly where it's leaking but it's around the bulkhead just forward of the mast so difficult to access. My current plan is to seal those compartments, reshape the daggerboard so it will go all the way down, do something to protect the mast, yard, and boom where they wear against each other, rework the trailer bunks to better support the boat, and varnish the tiller and rudder cassette. This is all going to take a while and by the time I'm done the water temp in the harbor will probably be below 80 so I won't want to sail a boat that is easily capsized. I expect to try sailing it again in May of next year.

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