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1 hour ago, Recidivist said:

^This is the question.

kknh4tmvbqtryqwtzzgw.gif

^This is your answer? 

NTTAWWT, but please take it to Fantasy Anarchy.

this was supposed to reflect AS leadership. Rather than leading the Lemmings over the cliff, they are just in a daisy chain. 

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42 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Then why so many policies if due process is, as you say, 'unnecessary and unworkable.' 

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/CONSTITUTION-update-July-2018.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Member-Protection-Policy-Version-0.02-May-2016.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/RQYS-Diversity-Harassment-and-Equity-Policy-Version-0.01-March-2016.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Codes-of-Behaviour-Version-0.02-May-2016.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/RQYS-Privacy-Policy-12-March-2014.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Social-Media-Policy-MEMBERS-V-0.03-May-2016.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Houe-Rules-Policy-V-0.09-Reviewed-January-2019.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Licensing-Requirements-Sign-In-Procedures-Version-0.02-March-2016.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/RQYS-Marina-Rules-and-Regulations-V-0.05-Updated-June-2019.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Access-Policy-Version-1.2.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Parking-Policy-Version-2.0.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Live-Aboard-Policy-Version-1.4.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Trades-Contractors-and-DIY-Policy-Version-2.1.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/RQYS-Sall-Pass-Day-Membership-Sailing-Social-Version-1.3-27-November-2018.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Smoke-Free-Policy-V-0.02-June-2018.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Committee-Code-of-Conduct-Policy-V-1.02.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Domestic-Animals-Policy-Version-1.2.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Sail-Our-Boats-Policy-Version-1.4.pdf

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Child-Safety-Policy-V-0.03.pdf

http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/RQYS-Bill-Kirby-Jetty-Deanbilla-Bay-Policy.pdf

And...

By Laws – Coming Soon

FFS looks like too many lawyers have been involved in RQYS

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10 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Correct,

Back early sadly, after Mr Octopus caught an arm in a self-tailer.

Was it his turn to be the Papa?

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How does it work when a potential crew person has to "pay" a club to race on a boat at a club? what is the relationship between the club and owner now (contractor, employee)? 

Doesn't the owner pay to be a member, keep the boat in the mariner of the club, entry fees to go racing now they are stinging the crew to go sailing at that club? 

getting crew is a hard thing to do. 

owners and sailors dont "need" clubs to go racing......maybe they need reminding of this.   

Is there a public jetty near RQYS? pick up and drop off crew.

Is there a pub near RQYS? New place to go for a post race drink.

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/RQYS-Sall-Pass-Day-Membership-Sailing-Social-Version-1.3-27-November-2018.pdf

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10 minutes ago, snoopy said:

How does it work when a potential crew person has to "pay" a club to race on a boat at a club? what is the relationship between the club and owner now (contractor, employee)? 

Doesn't the owner pay to be a member, keep the boat in the mariner of the club, entry fees to go racing now they are stinging the crew to go sailing at that club? 

getting crew is a hard thing to do. 

owners and sailors dont "need" clubs to go racing......maybe they need reminding of this.   

Is there a public jetty near RQYS? pick up and drop off crew.

Is there a pub near RQYS? New place to go for a post race drink.

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/RQYS-Sall-Pass-Day-Membership-Sailing-Social-Version-1.3-27-November-2018.pdf

Fuck me, how entitled are they to charge people to walk out to a friends boat.  Great way to make it harder to get crew.  Don't know of any other club that are so unwelcoming

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15 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

Fuck me, how entitled are they to charge people to walk out to a friends boat.  Great way to make it harder to get crew.  Don't know of any other club that are so unwelcoming

That's terribly written.. how do they run a regatta ?

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55 minutes ago, Bill E Goat said:

Fuck me, how entitled are they to charge people to walk out to a friends boat.  Great way to make it harder to get crew.  Don't know of any other club that are so unwelcoming

Sandringham have a pay to play but only for a number of times, after that you have to become a member

At least that is what I thought the web site said when I was thinking about sailing in Melbourne

No idea if other clubs have the same requirements

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6 minutes ago, Rushman said:

Sandringham have a pay to play but only for a number of times, after that you have to become a member

At least that is what I thought the web site said when I was thinking about sailing in Melbourne

No idea if other clubs have the same requirements

Most clubs now have a requirement you need to be a paid member of (AS, via) an affiliated club.

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6 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Most clubs now have a requirement you need to be a paid member of (AS, via) an affiliated club.

I am/was a member of Canberra Yacht Club (renewal has just arrived) but the way I read it I would have to join Sandringham

 

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9 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Most clubs now have a requirement you need to be a paid member of (AS, via) an affiliated club.

And being a member of one doesn't get you out of having to pay if you want to race at another one.  Not even reduced rates to acknowledge we'd already have insurance (which would be a component?).

Not here in South Oz, anyway.

:angry:

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General sailing at RQYS is free for your first three visits. Then $15. Then $35. So for 12 sails in your first year $220 (not inc wags)  

That should be enough to decide if you want / need to join to sail there & buy the $395 Crew membership which includes your silver card no & a gate card. 

So the earlier you bite the bullet & get a crew membeship incl the SA silver card the better I guess. 

If you don’t own a boat elsewhere, so no double dipping on the membership,  it’s pretty good value I reckon. 80% of Brisbane’s racing boats sail out of RQYS  & the gate card allows them to keep some sort of track on who comes & goes. Some pretty big $ investments on the marina so makes sense to me that they want to track ppl. 

If anything maybe not make people join after the 12th Visit. Perhaps they could change to yearly. Ie $10 per sail up to six visits a year. That’s plenty of visits if not your home club. 

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Talking of Angevin kings..... The World Sailing Annual Conference is being held in Bermuda from 26 October to 3 November 2019. This conference will bring together the World Sailing Board, Council and all committees in meetings to discuss Olympic strategies, development and technical issues in sailing
Read more https://www.sailing.org.au/news/the-world-sailing-annual-conference/

 

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8 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

So why in the glorious fuck did they not 69 him at the time?

 

As noted earlier, you cannot 69 someone if they are not a competitor at the time.  Someone could call the pc a bunch of drug smuggling wife beaters on the take, but if they were not entered at the time then 69 does not apply

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On 10/9/2019 at 8:07 PM, stufishing said:

So surely if the club decided to exclude someone based on some posts on an internet forum, then that information should form part of the evidence against said person in the hearing to decide whether there is a right to exclude? Or do we actually have a situation where it perfectly acceptable for a club to exclude a competitor from a regatta based on compromising rule 69.xxx because they complained the beer was hot at the briefing?

The point is that the rules are simple - as the US case states the club’s powers to exclude an entry are almost infinite, as long as the exclusion is not based on factors like race or religion. Therefore there is no need to put up any information to decide if there is a right to exclude.  Under the rules there is apparently not a shred of doubt that the right to exclude exists

Yes, the way the RRS are written  if someone complained about the beer they could be excluded     .  Has anything like that ever occurred?   Not as far as I know

Given that AS has to apply the rules and the fact that the rule seems to clearly allow a club to exclude someone, what should they have done in a situation like this?  It seems that they had  little choice but to follow the rules and allow the exclusion.  The alternative could have been AS saying “fuck the clearly written rules, fuck the club’s wishes, we will do what we want.”  Do the critics of AS really want that?

 

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19 minutes ago, Curious said:

The alternative could have been AS saying “fuck the clearly written rules, fuck the club’s wishes, we will do what we want.”  Do the critics of AS really want that?

 

I don't think you have any fucking idea.

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3 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

I don't think you have any fucking idea.

So you think the jury should just ignore the rules?  

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5 hours ago, Rushman said:

I am/was a member of Canberra Yacht Club (renewal has just arrived) but the way I read it I would have to join Sandringham

 

You have AS to thank for this clusterfuck of day passes, temporary membership, join or else, shit that has now spread across the western (well AS) world. This due to the clause that everyone on the boat must be a member of an affiliated club - not a member, well we have a work around. Day passes.

No longer can you ask a mate who's never seen a boat, to just rock on down for a quick sail. No - there's passes, fees, liquor licenses, AS affiliation blah blah and it goes on forever. I'm trying to sign on some newbies tonight, on my massive smart phone, which i can't see without specs anyway, which i've just busted trying to hoist a fucking sail, for a stupid beer can race, which we're running late for, and it got too fucking hard . I spilt a beer at least twice - and was late for the start.

In the end we enjoyed our sail - moreso the newbs than me i suspect.

</rant>

 

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10 minutes ago, Curious said:

So you think the jury should just ignore the rules?  

No, but your response backs up my post

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11 hours ago, Recidivist said:

I guess we are lucky to have you, in your great and unmatched wisdom, to decide when due process is vital and when it can be dispensed with, and who is entitled to due process and who can just be shat upon with no remedy.

That's the point Commodore Captain was making about AS - did you miss that bit?

This stuff is disappointing since I have always respected you.  Now you start slinging stupid insults, silly psychoanalysis and lies.

No, the point is that I am NOT saying when due process is required.  The RRS, cases and club rules say that. 

You are the one claiming to know when it is required and that you are the All Knowing and that the RRS are wrong.....not to mention the legal system.

Apart from everything else, due process can be basically impossible in a small club. Try finding someone with no bias; who is willing to go through the system; who knows due process; who understands Briginshaw and Veal; who can make it apparent that they have followed due process; and had the time  

We cannot bind the sport up with more red tape and lawyers

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Curious said:

This stuff is disappointing since I have always respected you.  Now you start slinging stupid insults, silly psychoanalysis and lies.

No, the point is that I am NOT saying when due process is required.  The RRS, cases and club rules say that. 

You are the one claiming to know when it is required and that you are the All Knowing and that the RRS are wrong.....not to mention the legal system.

Apart from everything else, due process can be basically impossible in a small club. Try finding someone with no bias; who is willing to go through the system; who knows due process; who understands Briginshaw and Veal; who can make it apparent that they have followed due process; and had the time  

We cannot bind the sport up with more red tape and lawyers

 

 

Curious - please answer.

Do you, or do you not, have a medically diagnosed condition such as Aspergers.  It's ok if you do. It's also ok if you don't. You're an internet sock, after all.

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20 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

LB , SCANNAS ,  comprende

Selective enforcement of rules? WCGW! 

BTW it’s obvious the only way you’re going to understand all the details is to wait for the memoir to be published.

I heard Jack Sparrow is in talks to write it, Max Markson says the talent is “circling” & Roxy Jacenko (who owes me more than 1 favour) is going to run marketing. 

Should hit shelves July 2050!! 

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So... in summary...a club has the right to exclude without cause. Yep..got it...

As Groucho is said to have said...I wouldn't want to be a member of any club...that'd have me as a member.

Most major clubs are pretty up themselves...and the AS is in it for it's kings and funded by the gummint for the lympix

And I'm over this shit....and would rather take the X-50 to Fiji with my mates for some surfing and cruise Tassy at chistmas than do another Hobart.....

So I'll play in my own little patch and give fewer fucks than I have ever given to this "issue"......and leave others to wonder why this sport is so fucked.

Cheerio!

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Curious said:

This stuff is disappointing since I have always respected you.  Now you start slinging stupid insults, silly psychoanalysis and lies.

No, the point is that I am NOT saying when due process is required.  The RRS, cases and club rules say that. 

You are the one claiming to know when it is required and that you are the All Knowing and that the RRS are wrong.....not to mention the legal system.

Apart from everything else, due process can be basically impossible in a small club. Try finding someone with no bias; who is willing to go through the system; who knows due process; who understands Briginshaw and Veal; who can make it apparent that they have followed due process; and had the time  

We cannot bind the sport up with more red tape and lawyers

 

 

You missed the clue - "great and unmatched wisdom" is a quote from a very prominent person, very recently - it should have signalled to you that there was a fair bit of tongue in cheek.

Anyway, I suggest that what has gone down here has had exactly the effect you say is undesirable - binding up the sport with more red tape and lawyers. 

And I'm not claiming that I am all knowing, or that the RRS are wrong - I'm just an interested observer from the sidelines, not an interested party.

BTW - you said you aren't an authoritarian, but have since posted more comments that seem to belie your claim.  Go back and take a look - there's a reason I made that observation - because I don't know you, I can only work off your posts and they indicate a strong demand for adherence to rules, no matter whether those rules are reasonable or not.  All the same, I'll wear silly psychoanalysis, but I'll be fucking astounded if you can produce any evidence of lies!  

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1 hour ago, Curious said:

As noted earlier, you cannot 69 someone if they are not a competitor at the time.  Someone could call the pc a bunch of drug smuggling wife beaters on the take, but if they were not entered at the time then 69 does not apply

Not entirely true: "A competitor, boat owner or support person.."

.. and if this alleged perpetrator had no skin in the game, why would he be abusing the RC?

 

EDIT: and secondly, I'm not sure there's any restriction on when a purported violation of 69 occurred relative to an event.. so the RC should have pulled a 69 on his arse for the event in question after entry, based on previous 'facts', or findings in the club disciplinary process.

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33 minutes ago, Curious said:

This stuff is disappointing since I have always respected you.  Now you start slinging stupid insults, silly psychoanalysis and lies.

Point that out, because I just read both pages & can’t find Recidivist slinging insults or lies. 

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56 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

 

BTW it’s obvious the only way you’re going to understand all the details is to wait for the memoir to be published.

 

Now thats why this thread is so funny.

How could we possibly have a traditional Anarchy shit fight, if we  divulged all the facts . 

We wouldn't be able to bag RQYS or AS. 

How boring.

 

C'MON SCANNAS its time to stop your whining.

I suspect the RQYS committee is reading this thread and ROTFL .

It hasn't quite turned out how you would have liked.

Has it cupcake.

 

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11 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Point that out, because I just read both pages & can’t find Recidivist slinging insults or lies. 

Thanks Scanas, appreciated.  I suspect the tongue in cheek Trump quote may be what he thinks was an insult - come to think of it, without the tongue in cheek factor, I probably would have also! 

I've already called him (?) on the lies - I really would appreciate a retraction of that.  Even after 15 years in this cesspool, I've never been previously accused of lying!

But, thinking about it - if Curious has overreacted in my case, it's possible he has merely overreacted in the matter being discussed also - I wonder if he might be able to ruminate on that possibility.

R

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41 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

But, thinking about it - if Curious has overreacted in my case, it's possible he has merely overreacted in the matter being discussed also - I wonder if he might be able to ruminate on that possibility.

R

Seems to be the most logical explanation of his heightened offence to the whole thing, other than having a deep personal hate. 

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9 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

LB , SCANNAS ,  comprende

Quoting your own sock puppet now? 

Bwahahahaha. 

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25 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Quoting your own sock puppet now? 

Bwahahahaha. 

Keep swinging Buttercup.

Not much is landing.

 

 

BWAHAHA 

 

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10 hours ago, Couta said:

So... in summary...a club has the right to exclude without cause. Yep..got it...

As Groucho is said to have said...I wouldn't want to be a member of any club...that'd have me as a member.

Most major clubs are pretty up themselves...and the AS is in it for it's kings and funded by the gummint for the lympix

And I'm over this shit....and would rather take the X-50 to Fiji with my mates for some surfing and cruise Tassy at chistmas than do another Hobart.....

So I'll play in my own little patch and give fewer fucks than I have ever given to this "issue"......and leave others to wonder why this sport is so fucked.

Cheerio!

 

 

 

Couta, we seem to agree on most things but mate, you are bit late on this one.

I formed that view about 10 years ago so but we are taking the big powerboat around to the West Coast for three weeks in late January.

You are welcome to bring your boards as we have some top spots.

 

 

surf 2.jpg

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52 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Keep swinging Buttercup.

Not much is landing.

 

 

BWAHAHA 

 

It’s ok mate. Butthurt isn’t terminal - you will eventually feel whole again.

Now back on topic. You have made a series of  allegations about a competitor abusing a jury and this being a breach of RRS 69.1.

You claim that was the reason for the exclusion. 

You do this behind your cloak of invisibility because you know that what you claim is erroneous, defamatory, malicious and with the clearly stated objective of harming that persons character.

You have even posted the persons name. 

Why?

Now in regards to your lies, can  you direct us to any complaint, action, finding, reason for exclusion, or sanction that mentions, refers to or in anyway discuss’s your claim that he abused a jury? 

Time to put up cupcake. 

 

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9 hours ago, Recidivist said:

Thanks Scanas, appreciated.  I suspect the tongue in cheek Trump quote may be what he thinks was an insult - come to think of it, without the tongue in cheek factor, I probably would have also! 

I've already called him (?) on the lies - I really would appreciate a retraction of that.  Even after 15 years in this cesspool, I've never been previously accused of lying!

But, thinking about it - if Curious has overreacted in my case, it's possible he has merely overreacted in the matter being discussed also - I wonder if he might be able to ruminate on that possibility.

R

Recidivist, I was pissed off at your untrue statement that I was an authoritarian. People who know me would laugh themselves silly at that. It may well have been OTT to call it a lie and I will withdraw that statement, but  if you are going to try to label people they will hit back. 

As far as over-reacting goes, it’s possible - but this is SA. It’s a place where people get excited and rant.

The other thing is that a lot of what has happened seems to relate to abuse of volunteers - something that I strongly believe should not go on unopposed.  And finally, this is clearly annoying someone who is a petty vicious bully on this forum, and it’s interesting to see  how they can dish it out but cannot take it 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

It’s ok mate. Butthurt isn’t terminal - you will eventually feel whole again.

Now back on topic. You have made a series of  allegations about a competitor abusing a jury and this being a breach of RRS 69.1.

You claim that was the reason for the exclusion. 

You do this behind your cloak of invisibility because you know that what you claim is erroneous, defamatory, malicious and with the clearly stated objective of harming that persons character.

You have even posted the persons name. 

Why?

Now in regards to your lies, can  you direct us to any complaint, action, finding, reason for exclusion, or sanction that mentions, refers to or in anyway discuss’s your claim that he abused a jury? 

Time to put up cupcake. 

 

So let’s get this clear - you abuse people post after post, but then whine when other people make allegations?

Why are you so sensitive now, sweetie?

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11 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Curious - please answer.

Do you, or do you not, have a medically diagnosed condition such as Aspergers.  It's ok if you do. It's also ok if you don't. You're an internet sock, after all.

Definitely not Aspergers or anything like that.  I just don’t like would-be bullies.  

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Anyway enough of watching squirming from LB, someone who has flung lots of abuse but can’t take any flak. It’s been interesting but rather pitiful to watch someone who can fling shit but can’t take it, but  I’m off sailing. 

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15 hours ago, SCANAS said:

General sailing at RQYS is free for your first three visits. Then $15. Then $35. So for 12 sails in your first year $220 (not inc wags)  

That should be enough to decide if you want / need to join to sail there & buy the $395 Crew membership which includes your silver card no & a gate card. 

So the earlier you bite the bullet & get a crew membeship incl the SA silver card the better I guess. 

If you don’t own a boat elsewhere, so no double dipping on the membership,  it’s pretty good value I reckon. 80% of Brisbane’s racing boats sail out of RQYS  & the gate card allows them to keep some sort of track on who comes & goes. Some pretty big $ investments on the marina so makes sense to me that they want to track ppl. 

If anything maybe not make people join after the 12th Visit. Perhaps they could change to yearly. Ie $10 per sail up to six visits a year. That’s plenty of visits if not your home club. 

So the club charges for a service that is predominately being provided by an owner, and the owner gets charged as well for the same service?

The club should be "selling" itself for people to join, this system sounds like a cartel. 

If you have a cruising boat and your taking guests out for the day you dont need to go through this pass system. 

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Just now, snoopy said:

So the club charges for a service that is predominately being provided by an owner, and the owner gets charged as well for the same service?

The club should be "selling" itself for people to join, this system sounds like a cartel. 

If you have a cruising boat and your taking guests out for the day you dont need to go through this pass system. 

All justified by AS for insurance purposes. But to be fair you can't run onto a football field for competition without being registered in the team and if you play for multiple teams you have to be registered in each so is there a difference? Just asking the question...

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1 hour ago, Curious said:

Recidivist, I was pissed off at your untrue statement that I was an authoritarian. People who know me would laugh themselves silly at that. It may well have been OTT to call it a lie and I will withdraw that statement, but  if you are going to try to label people they will hit back. 

As far as over-reacting goes, it’s possible - but this is SA. It’s a place where people get excited and rant.

The other thing is that a lot of what has happened seems to relate to abuse of volunteers - something that I strongly believe should not go on unopposed.  And finally, this is clearly annoying someone who is a petty vicious bully on this forum, and it’s interesting to see  how they can dish it out but cannot take it 

 

 

Thanks for the withdrawal - appreciate that.  I explained why I attached that label to you - I can only repeat the reasoning, but I'm happy to withdraw that (as I sort of had already).

The problem is that this has gone outside SA to real life, and there are no winners from this sort of shitfight - only if it's used as a learning experience, and AS and RQ, who are in the best position to achieve that, seem totally uninterested in learning anything.

Abuse of volunteers is clearly unacceptable, but the two words most misused here on SA are liar and abuse.  One man's mockery is another man's abuse.  And when it's not face to face, the nuances aren't readable and people often take stuff the wrong way - I've experienced the same myself, but have learned to either withdraw from the conversation, put the fuckwit (;) ) on ignore, or  escalate!  IMHO it's time for this matter to be de-escalated.

Enough!

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3 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

  One man's mockery is another man's abuse. 

Why is mockery not abuse?

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8 minutes ago, JimC said:

Why is mockery not abuse?

It could be Jim, if the intent is malicious.  For example, Donald Trump mocking a disabled person.  But Aussies have a concept called "taking the piss" and that's the sort of mockery I was referring to.  

Good pickup though.  Obviously there is potential for the line to be blurred ... and for there to be a disconnect between intention and perception.

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12 hours ago, Curious said:

 Now you start slinging stupid insults, silly psychoanalysis and lies.

We cannot bind the sport up with more red tape and lawyers

YCMTSU.

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2 hours ago, Curious said:

People who know me would laugh themselves silly at that.

Don't you love it when anonymous trolls post what great guys they really are in their 'real' world.

It is a pretty convincing argument I think. 

 

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1 hour ago, Curious said:

So let’s get this clear - you abuse people post after post, but then whine when other people make allegations?

Why are you so sensitive now, sweetie?

Sensitive?

Quote

People who know me would laugh themselves silly at that.

Sorry - is that you answer? 

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1 hour ago, Curious said:

Anyway enough of watching squirming from LB, someone who has flung lots of abuse but can’t take any flak. It’s been interesting but rather pitiful to watch someone who can fling shit but can’t take it, but  I’m off sailing. 

Don't get your hand caught in the self tailor again.

'I’m off sailing.' 

Fuck I love this place.

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13 hours ago, Curious said:

It seems that they had  little choice but to follow the rules and allow the exclusion.  The alternative could have been AS saying “fuck the clearly written rules, fuck the club’s wishes, we will do what we want.”  Do the critics of AS really want that?

 

I'm curious if the overly paid helpers involved in making AS may have influenced the decision process! Rather a large investment to win a protest, just to exclude a competitor in my opinion! And not an expense I agree with at all! 

 

And in protests, I though a player of the team had to be there, or at least a member of the club or at worst the national body! Was there one?

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12 hours ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Now thats why this thread is so funny.

How could we possibly have a traditional Anarchy shit fight, if we  divulged all the facts . 

We wouldn't be able to bag RQYS or AS. 

How boring.

 

C'MON SCANNAS its time to stop your whining.

I suspect the RQYS committee is reading this thread and ROTFL .

It hasn't quite turned out how you would have liked.

Has it cupcake.

 

Unless you think I’m Captain Commodore that’s a strange response.

I didn’t plan it go either way. T.I.A / T.I.S.A baby! 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

It’s ok mate. Butthurt isn’t terminal - you will eventually feel whole again.

Now back on topic. You have made a series of  allegations about a competitor abusing a jury and this being a breach of RRS 69.1.

You claim that was the reason for the exclusion. 

You do this behind your cloak of invisibility because you know that what you claim is erroneous, defamatory, malicious and with the clearly stated objective of harming that persons character.

You have even posted the persons name. 

Why?

Now in regards to your lies, can  you direct us to any complaint, action, finding, reason for exclusion, or sanction that mentions, refers to or in anyway discuss’s your claim that he abused a jury? 

Time to put up cupcake. 

 

Oh dear LB.

Have you tried some of this.

Still swinging like a windmill I see.

 

image.png.bef2ce36dd730582ea9eae18657b2fab.png

Here you go precious pumpkin.

Its there for all to see.

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Protest-or-Jury-Outcomes-2019.pdf

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Turkey Slapper said:

I'm curious if the overly paid helpers involved in making AS may have influenced the decision process! Rather a large investment to win a protest, just to exclude a competitor in my opinion! And not an expense I agree with at all! 

 

And in protests, I though a player of the team had to be there, or at least a member of the club or at worst the national body! Was there one?

I'm still confused (not that it's too hard to confuse me) but was a boat excluded just because it was owned by a person who has resigned from the host club in question and is now a member of another club I presume (?) yet this was a state championship sanctioned by the national authority so open to members of any club - the results seem to support this premise. 

Then another boat owned by another member of the same club that he wasn't allowed to race in an offshore race organised by same said club if said member was onboard.

4 minutes ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Oh dear LB.

Have you tried some of this.

Still swinging like a windmill I see.

 

image.png.bef2ce36dd730582ea9eae18657b2fab.png

Here you go precious pumpkin.

Its there for all to see.

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Protest-or-Jury-Outcomes-2019.pdf

 

 

Pity the actual decision isn't published rather than just the summary - that might make for bedtime reading

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1 minute ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Why would that cause me butthurt? You are the one crying like a little bitch, girlfriend. Can't see anything about abusing a jury either. 

Anyway,I thought you were going sailing again?

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19 hours ago, Dark Cloud said:

Paging Don

Someone rang???

Oooh! this ridiculous subject.

I was formally presented by the SYC Commodore the "Stirrers Award" for trying to argue against forcing crew to become day members and then full club members.

Crew are covered by my boat insurance, why do they need to be members of the club? Oh that's right something to do with Australian Sailing and crew insurance. Given who is running AS I would not trust them to have paid up insurance. If SAFETY is what this is about, all that should be required is the accurate race crew list supplied to RO's prior to the race warning signal.

But its all about MONEY not SAFETY.

So Smooth Criminal is for sale and I'm buying a fast ocean sail boat, and to hell with club yacht racing

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1 hour ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

I'm still confused (not that it's too hard to confuse me) but was a boat excluded just because it was owned by a person who has resigned from the host club in question and is now a member of another club I presume (?) yet this was a state championship sanctioned by the national authority so open to members of any club - the results seem to support this premise. 

Then another boat owned by another member of the same club that he wasn't allowed to race in an offshore race organised by same said club if said member was onboard.

Pity the actual decision isn't published rather than just the summary - that might make for bedtime reading

Yes, but shouldn't there be a member of the host authority sitting on the other side? Or where the highly paid stand'ins just day members like backpackers that frequent Wednesday events? And who paid the $15 if that's the case! I just can't find the highly paid stand'ins on any members list that's all! Now I'm confused! 

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1 hour ago, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Oh dear LB.

Have you tried some of this.

Still swinging like a windmill I see.

 

image.png.bef2ce36dd730582ea9eae18657b2fab.png

Here you go precious pumpkin.

Its there for all to see.

https://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Protest-or-Jury-Outcomes-2019.pdf

 

 

Ahhhh I think I have this one worked out!!!!!!

 

That explains curious as well! 

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13 minutes ago, Turkey Slapper said:

Yes, but shouldn't there be a member of the host authority sitting on the other side? Or where the highly paid stand'ins just day members like backpackers that frequent Wednesday events? And who paid the $15 if that's the case! I just can't find the highly paid stand'ins on any members list that's all! Now I'm confused! 

I guess you refer to the following who appear on the AS website - I think they are all RQ based except Ross Chisholm who I know in Airlie - someone might be able to confirm.

Name AS Number State Qualification Ref no Status    
Matterson, Richard 358144 QLD International Judge    ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2020 VALIDITY   
Collins, Rosemary 560540 QLD International Judge    ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2019 VALIDITY   
Willis, Nev 567277 QLD International Judge    ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2019 VALIDITY 

 

Name AS Number State Qualification Ref no Status    
Brookes, David 350810 QLD National Judge 141839  ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2021 VALIDITY   
Gallagher, Mark 38026 QLD National Judge 77914  ACCREDITED UNTIL 01 JAN 2021 VALIDITY   
Chisholm, Ross 500010 QLD National Judge 114127  ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2019 VALIDITY 

 

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4 hours ago, lydia said:

Couta, we seem to agree on most things but mate, you are bit late on this one.

I formed that view about 10 years ago so but we are taking the big powerboat around to the West Coast for three weeks in late January.

You are welcome to bring your boards as we have some top spots.

 

 

surf 2.jpg

Lydia...you know how to swing an argument! Generous offer complete with "photos or it never happened" proof! To be fair, I came to my conclusions around our sport decades ago...it's just that every now and then ...in a momentary lapse of sanity...hoping (against all evidence to the contrary) that something has changed....I jump back into the shit-fight to reconfirm my earlier conclusions. I'm a slow learner.

Late January we might be finding ourselves in close company as we're in the process of putting together the Tazzy cruise on a mates newly acquired X-yacht....complete with boards of various sizes & descriptions. I might have to pm you for some local tips ( on the promise that your secret spots remain that!!)

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24 minutes ago, Couta said:

Lydia...you know how to swing an argument! Generous offer complete with "photos or it never happened" proof! To be fair, I came to my conclusions around our sport decades ago...it's just that every now and then ...in a momentary lapse of sanity...hoping (against all evidence to the contrary) that something has changed....I jump back into the shit-fight to reconfirm my earlier conclusions. I'm a slow learner.

Late January we might be finding ourselves in close company as we're in the process of putting together the Tazzy cruise on a mates newly acquired X-yacht....complete with boards of various sizes & descriptions. I might have to pm you for some local tips ( on the promise that your secret spots remain that!!)

Remember it’s the west coast of Tassie. Take your 10mm steamer.

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Nah, that one is on the south coast like this one.

So I am been a smart arse now!

Sorry Couta , I will pm you with instructions.

surf 1.jpg

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2 hours ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

I guess you refer to the following who appear on the AS website - I think they are all RQ based except Ross Chisholm who I know in Airlie - someone might be able to confirm.

Name AS Number State Qualification Ref no Status    
Matterson, Richard 358144 QLD International Judge    ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2020 VALIDITY   
Collins, Rosemary 560540 QLD International Judge    ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2019 VALIDITY   
Willis, Nev 567277 QLD International Judge    ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2019 VALIDITY 

 

Name AS Number State Qualification Ref no Status    
Brookes, David 350810 QLD National Judge 141839  ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2021 VALIDITY   
Gallagher, Mark 38026 QLD National Judge 77914  ACCREDITED UNTIL 01 JAN 2021 VALIDITY   
Chisholm, Ross 500010 QLD National Judge 114127  ACCREDITED UNTIL 31 DEC 2019 VALIDITY 

 

Sorry, I was under the impression in the exclusion from the race protest, there is as normal 3 sides to the hearing, the protestor who was excluded but a member of another club, the protest committee who are all members of clubs I would think, then the legal team defending the clubs side, I can't find any of them as members of a club or affiliated body! I was under the impression that to protest you had to be at least in the regatta, or very least a member somewhere or of some form! And if they were there for an event and had the $15 day pass, does that make them a YA member to be able to side a protest on any of the 3 sides of the table!

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1 hour ago, Turkey Slapper said:

Sorry, I was under the impression in the exclusion from the race protest, there is as normal 3 sides to the hearing, the protestor who was excluded but a member of another club, the protest committee who are all members of clubs I would think, then the legal team defending the clubs side, I can't find any of them as members of a club or affiliated body! I was under the impression that to protest you had to be at least in the regatta, or very least a member somewhere or of some form! And if they were there for an event and had the $15 day pass, does that make them a YA member to be able to side a protest on any of the 3 sides of the table!

How was the protestor excluded?

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33 minutes ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

How was the protestor excluded?

I think he means from the event. But don't stop him he's on a roll!

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2 hours ago, lydia said:

Nah, that one is on the south coast like this one.

So I am been a smart arse now!

Sorry Couta , I will pm you with instructions.

surf 1.jpg

Is it a 'Surfing Tasmania' sanctioned event?

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5 hours ago, Turkey Slapper said:

Ahhhh I think I have this one worked out!!!!!!

 

That explains curious as well! 

Yup.

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46 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Is it a 'Surfing Tasmania' sanctioned event?

Yes, and you must be a member of a ST affiliated club (for insurance purposes). If not a member of the host club, wave passes are available which gives you access to the facilities (beach) for the day - for a maximum of 6 waves upon which you will be required to........ah you know the rest

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11 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

Yes, and you must be a member of a ST affiliated club (for insurance purposes). If not a member of the host club, wave passes are available which gives you access to the facilities (beach) for the day - for a maximum of 6 waves upon which you will be required to........ah you know the rest

Is there a minimum wave height to which a wave is sanctioned as a wave? Do social waves (one’s without extra’s) count as the same as a wave with extras (I.e. one that breaks?), just don’t want to be ruled offside or out of wave credits.

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3 minutes ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

Is there a minimum wave height to which a wave is sanctioned as a wave? Do social waves (one’s without extra’s) count as the same as a wave with extras (I.e. one that breaks?), just don’t want to be ruled offside or out of wave credits.

i hear you have been banned from the event for insubordination  - How dare you......question the notice of waves ?

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Is a goofy foot always on port?

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Is a goofy foot always on port?

That depends. Some countries, such as the one with the most progressive ranga in charge, tend to do this shit arse about. But if you'd bother to have read the notice of waves, you'd be aware of that already

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As a Goofy ...and fully paid up member of the relevant authority....Surfers Having Investigated Tasmanian Shores...That's SHITS to you.....I can confirm that Anarchy rules in the wild places....drop in at your own risk!!!!! 

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48 minutes ago, Couta said:

As a Goofy ...and fully paid up member of the relevant authority....Surfers Having Investigated Tasmanian Shores...That's SHITS to you.....I can confirm that Anarchy rules in the wild places....drop in at your own risk!!!!! 

That's all well and good, but a NTC (notice to cunts) was issued that has changed the rules that you originally signed up for

:)

 

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Don’t see some AS office flunky coming out to south west cape in a tax payer funded RIB to get my capitation fee either 

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1 minute ago, lydia said:

Don’t see some AS office flunky coming out to south west cape in a tax payer funded RIB to get my capitation fee either 

He'll be waiting back in his ivoried tower in the CBD watching via spy satellite and tracking you on AIS

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NTC? Doesn't apply to me. ;-) ..and anyway, I'd claim the Bart Simpson defence....

I Didn't Do It, Nobody Saw Me Do It, There's No Way You Can Prove Anything!

...It's never failed me yet!
 
 
 
 
 
 
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20 hours ago, Turkey Slapper said:

The legal team defending the clubs side, I can't find any of them as members of a club or affiliated body! I was under the impression that to protest you had to be at least in the regatta, or very least a member somewhere or of some form! And if they were there for an event and had the $15 day pass, does that make them a YA member to be able to side a protest on any of the 3 sides of the table!

The surf in Far South Tasmania isn't worth talking about at the moment. Flat as.

Can we get back to TS's point about the legal team. Did RQ really engage a team of external lawyers to argue its case? Is that allowed under the RRS? What status did these QC's have? Members of the club? Members of any other AS-affiliated club? Certainly not competitors in any sanctioned event. More importantly as to whether they were in possession of a day pass to be on the club premises, where do the RRS and our "self-goverened sport" stand on external legal teams being allowed to represent and argue cases in which they have no involvement whatsoever?

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3 hours ago, lydia said:

Don’t see some AS office flunky coming out to south west cape in a tax payer funded RIB to get my capitation fee either 

Yep, not even as far as Alonnah.

And some people think I'm a bit weird because I don't belong to a yacht club..... at least I don't have to put up with any of this sort of bullshit.

School hols finish tomorrow, should be safe to go out again knowing most people won't be able to. Anchorages without even a single other boat there.

FKT

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On 10/10/2019 at 9:58 PM, MRS OCTOPUS said:

Now thats why this thread is so funny.

How could we possibly have a traditional Anarchy shit fight, if we  divulged all the facts . 

We wouldn't be able to bag RQYS or AS. 

How boring.

 

C'MON SCANNAS its time to stop your whining.

I suspect the RQYS committee is reading this thread and ROTFL .

It hasn't quite turned out how you would have liked.

Has it cupcake.

 

It's strange where one can gain motivation, sometimes in the unlikeliest of places. Mrs Octopus, stumbled a bit and has misrepresented the facts. Curious by comparison just appears to be  misinformed, I agree with some of his thoughts and principles, they simply have no relevance to actual events.

I have been involved in a parallel dispute due to the same issue, and whilst I cannot speak with first hand experience on the IRC hearing and findings, I can categorically speak from first  hand experience of my own engagement. 

Call me a soft cock, but I have too much respect for our rules and processes for me to discuss this openly whilst the matter was under adjudication. I trusted AS be the final adjudicator of my issue, and was more than happy to accept the findings regardless of the decision. And I mean that genuinely, whilst I am happy to profess that LB is a friend, I will not ignore, or break rules, for anyone. 

I lost my appeal, and I blame myself, it is up to me to present a clear and concise case, which I clearly did not do, as the facts are indisputable. As such I was tempted to let it rest .

However, comments from Mrs Octopus right here have changed my mind. There was one slip up in a post by Mrs Octopus that proves first hand knowledge, and because i have gone to great lengths to respect the club and AS process and keep my hearing out of the public eye, nobody could know that unless they were a senior representatives of the club.

It is one thing for a club to be unaware of senior representatives going rogue, it is entirely another thing  for our governing body to sanction their actions, which , inadvertent or not, is exactly what they did. There were clear breaches of the RRS by the club that are indisputable. Either the process is flawed, or we did not follow process, it's as simple as that.    

This morning, on advice from Police and my insurance company,  I have had to move my boat out of the club marina, as I have repeated visitations where the boat is being tampered with. I am sure this will transpire to be pure co-incidence and completely disconnected that this started after I protested the club. But it does give you a sense of how this mess is now spiralling out of control, and our failsafe, being the governing body, did not investigate the abuses of process, and by their actions have condoned this as acceptable behaviour. That's not mediation, that 's a green flag for a continuing escalation.

 And if the club want to follow up on their threat of disciplinary action against me for bringing the club into disrepute by this post,  I want to clearly state I will exhaust all avenues available to me to ensure Mrs Octopus is sharing the dock with me.

One set of rules gentlemen, they (should) apply equally to all of us, and we have an obligation to respect them.

I do, for the club and AS I ask only one thing, the same in return.

.  

 

 

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25 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

It's strange where one can gain motivation, sometimes in the unlikeliest of places. Mrs Octopus, stumbled a bit and has misrepresented the facts. Curious by comparison just appears to be  misinformed, I agree with some of his thoughts and principles, they simply have no relevance to actual events.

I have been involved in a parallel dispute due to the same issue, and whilst I cannot speak with first hand experience on the IRC hearing and findings, I can categorically speak from first  hand experience of my own engagement. 

Call me a soft cock, but I have too much respect for our rules and processes for me to discuss this openly whilst the matter was under adjudication. I trusted AS be the final adjudicator of my issue, and was more than happy to accept the findings regardless of the decision. And I mean that genuinely, whilst I am happy to profess that LB is a friend, I will not ignore, or break rules, for anyone. 

I lost my appeal, and I blame myself, it is up to me to present a clear and concise case, which I clearly did not do, as the facts are indisputable. As such I was tempted to let it rest .

However, comments from Mrs Octopus right here have changed my mind. There was one slip up in a post by Mrs Octopus that proves first hand knowledge, and because i have gone to great lengths to respect the club and AS process and keep my hearing out of the public eye, nobody could know that unless they were a senior representatives of the club.

It is one thing for a club to be unaware of senior representatives going rogue, it is entirely another thing  for our governing body to sanction their actions, which , inadvertent or not, is exactly what they did. There were clear breaches of the RRS by the club that are indisputable. Either the process is flawed, or we did not follow process, it's as simple as that.    

This morning, on advice from Police and my insurance company,  I have had to move my boat out of the club marina, as I have repeated visitations where the boat is being tampered with. I am sure this will transpire to be pure co-incidence and completely disconnected that this started after I protested the club. But it does give you a sense of how this mess is now spiralling out of control, and our failsafe, being the governing body, did not investigate the abuses of process, and by their actions have condoned this as acceptable behaviour. That's not mediation, that 's a green flag for a continuing escalation.

 And if the club want to follow up on their threat of disciplinary action against me for bringing the club into disrepute by this post,  I want to clearly state I will exhaust all avenues available to me to ensure Mrs Octopus is sharing the dock with me.

One set of rules gentlemen, they (should) apply equally to all of us, and we have an obligation to respect them.

I do, for the club and AS I ask only one thing, the same in return.

.  

 

    

 

 

 

Wow. A serious WTF. I hope it works out well for you, I don't have any faith that the 'governing body' will be doing the right thing by its member, hope i am wrong

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59 minutes ago, Dark Cloud said:

Wow. A serious WTF. I hope it works out well for you, I don't have any faith that the 'governing body' will be doing the right thing by its member, hope i am wrong

Ever since I was a wee pup and first started racing, I was that in teenage period where I used to express frustration to a race official about witnessing some clear breach of the rules by another boat.

The answer was always the same, and I remember distinctly these moments as an important life lesson, even though at the time youth and exuberance didn't really stop me from just pointlessly bitching to an official a few more times.

The lesson, often expressed with a hint of exasperation, was always the same. In my recollection it went something like ;

"YOU, a competitor choose to compete in a self regulated sport. It is up to YOU, the competitor, to protest when you witness a rule breach, just as it is on us. A race official does not obtain God like powers and can somehow magic themselves to all points of the race course at the same time. Get it through your thick fucking head, it is YOUR responsibility. And ....("owww!! leggo of my ear!!"!)......having this authority requires YOU to exercise that right with integrity and in a sportsmanlike manner AT..(poke)....ALL (poke)...TIMES!...(hard poke)" 

That's the cloak we chose to wear as sailors. where we are measured by (and that our sport is reliant upon) our integrity as much as our skill.

Or maybe that was all just horseshit. Which sadly, might explain the path we seem to be travelling.

 

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Reading this thread and the IRC Champs in Ocean Anarchy has just helped re-enforce my decision to walk away from this sport at the end of the current season.

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