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27 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Nothing heard from the Octocunt. He is either meeting with his lawyer or having those irritating hemorrhoids removed. Hopefully through his ears.

He's in the garden with Kermit

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Just now, The Dark Knight said:

He's in the garden with Kermit

When you say "in" the garden; will we need a shovel?

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A shovel is one of those things that you don't always 'need', per se, but comes in handy to have around on occasion, just for, you know...

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1 hour ago, Black Sox said:

A shovel is one of those things that you don't always 'need', per se, but comes in handy to have around on occasion, just for, you know...

Yeah. I always carry one offshore

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I call the keels of my sailing school boats shovels. They spend half their time digging in the sand.

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11 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I call the keels of my sailing school boats shovels. They spend half their time digging in the sand.

LB,

And that’s just getting out of the harbour at manly !!!!

 

Pulpit

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20 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I call the keels of my sailing school boats shovels. They spend half their time digging in the sand.

Too easy...

FKT

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On 9/21/2020 at 5:45 PM, shaggybaxter said:

Bathurst bike riots

 

So you will excuse me if I don' t give a fuck if you don't like the whining my good sir.

Cheers,

SB

 

Which side were you on Shaggy?

I raced the Easter bike meetings at Bathurst 76 - 80.

We also have in common being shafted by Clubs and AS (or whatever it's called these days).

I started sailing in 1963 and have actively 'given'' to the sport over many years.

The problem is that you can't ask a hard question without the response becoming personal and toxic. I have seen this in operation over many years at most sporting clubs but nearly EVERY sailing or yacht club I have encountered.The sense of entitlement is extreme and is clearly demonstrated by issues such as High security gates and fences. Lot's of "You can't .." or "Members Only" signs everywhere. The participants using different language even, but probably most distinctive of all will be the Blazers and white pants worn by the Flag Officers. No wonder people are too intimidated to venture in and upset the "natural balance" of the club.

Many years ago I decided that the conduct of the CEO of an Australian State body and that State body, had become so accustomed to the practice of paying lip service to it's constitutional members ie the Clubs and Class Associations, that lip service became the new 'normal'. It took 12 months and 2 major public meetings and scores of smaller 'interest group' discussions/meetings to completely turf out the half of the Management Committeee who were standing for re-election and take the scalp of the CEO! As a spokesperson for the angry mob, I was treated appallingly. It was a very ugly 12 months but this proves that change/revolution can happen.

In addition I started my own list of people I personally have seen shafted by 'sailing' over the previous 57 years and I was a bit stunned when I looked at the numbers. I have a list of over 20 names so far! Obviously for legal reasons I can't post names but some of them are listening/lurking here on SA! Shaggy, you are no orphan here!

Sailing is great!

Yachting is bullshit!

Mic

 

 

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5 minutes ago, cosmicsedso said:

 

I remember the ‘troubles’ well mate. Remember the AGM meeting when they had the armed guard and threatened that anyone who interjected would be removed by Rambo? We sailing schools were at war with the pricks as well. We formed an industry association called the ‘Coalition of Unaffiliated Nautical Trainers’ and got much childish enjoyment by sending them long pedantic correspondence on our CUNT letterhead.

Good times.

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20 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I remember the ‘troubles’ well mate. Remember the AGM meeting when they had the armed guard and threatened that anyone who interjected would be removed by Rambo? We sailing schools were at war with the pricks as well. We formed an industry association called the ‘Coalition of Unaffiliated Nautical Trainers’ and got much childish enjoyment by sending them long pedantic correspondence on our CUNT letterhead.

Good times.

Armed guards at an AGM - gees you guys must have been real bad asses

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39 minutes ago, TheUltimateSockPuppet said:

Armed guards at an AGM - gees you guys must have been real bad asses

I thought it was to keep us away from the sausage rolls.

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On 9/24/2020 at 4:59 PM, LB 15 said:

Nothing heard from the Octocunt. He is either meeting with his lawyer or having those irritating hemorrhoids removed. Hopefully through his ears

.0AEF1B17-66A1-4495-A469-4FEEB503CA30.gif.9d054040d60d2e8551608ffd8b8567eb.gif

 

 

On 9/24/2020 at 10:37 PM, LB 15 said:

I call the keels of my sailing school boats shovels. They spend half their time digging in the sand.

I did 5days/nights on one of yours and not once did we dig. 
But 3of the other students abused the hell out of the shitter using it to spew in.. 

Both the instructor and i were happy to not use it after that.:-)

 

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Yes, parking tigers is part of the syllabus. 

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12 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Yes, parking tigers is part of the syllabus. 

From memory the first of the 3 had dropped the kids off at the pool before we had left the marina channel markers. His ungodly guff set the other two off spewing, he soon joined.. Chain reaction/all valves blowing type thing..

You are a man with superior shitters.

:D
 

The instructor was awesome and i learned alot.

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I remember the ‘troubles’ well mate.  We sailing schools were at war with the pricks as well. We formed an industry association called the ‘Coalition of Unaffiliated Nautical Trainers’ and got much childish enjoyment by sending them long pedantic correspondence on our CUNT letterhead.

Good times.

Were you at war with AS or RQ on that?

Certainly had my own extensive skirmishes with AS in the late 90's, early 20's when they wanted to impose 'their way of doing things' on all the volunteer run club LTS programs. Predictably, with the costs and systems they imposed - all completely at variance with the way clubs (in NSW at least) had done it for decades, they destroyed it all.

The clubs lost, and so eventually did sailing in Australia 

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14 hours ago, LB 15 said:

I thought it was to keep us away from the sausage rolls.

More likely to protect the Fairy Bread from the old gomers that run the sport

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15 hours ago, Rambler said:

Were you at war with AS or RQ on that?

Certainly had my own extensive skirmishes with AS in the late 90's, early 20's when they wanted to impose 'their way of doing things' on all the volunteer run club LTS programs. Predictably, with the costs and systems they imposed - all completely at variance with the way clubs (in NSW at least) had done it for decades, they destroyed it all.

The clubs lost, and so eventually did sailing in Australia 

No it was the then QYA. RQ lead the charge against them (there were some very good people running the club back then.) The board and QYA came up with this hair brained scheme that would have the sailing schools hand over any customer enquires to a company they formed called YATL. (This was a JV with AYF.) The plan was that YATL would then appoint us schools to deliver the training to teach our own customers, and we would pay YATL a handsome fee for the privilege of training our own customers. We formed C.U.N.T. and told them to bash it up their arse and accredited with the worlds leading maritime training organisation and YA were effectively out of the yacht traning game. This fuck up cost YA $100’s of thousands. Later on we at the RYA developed the national keelboat scheme for YA (teaching people to sail in smaller yachts like J24’s) I went around the country rolling out the instructor training in each state. We then handed it over to YA and they fucked it up in no time and now most clubs just do their own thing. QYA led YA by the nose into the Abyss in regards to training and now YA sailing training is a joke and it’s Certificates are not recognised overseas. 

I still have a copy of the training package they wrote. As an example we did not teach anchoring, it was in a subject called ‘establishing and maintaining an overnight camp site’. I shit you not. 

The SA clown car has a long history.

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27 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

 

The SA clown car has a long history.

In about the early 90s, I was heavily involved with the Youth Hostels Australia Sailing Activity based first in Inverloch with a move to lake learmonth. The activity simply brought together sailors and newbies for a cheap weekend of mono and multi hull introductory sailing experience (10 boats,  a rib, a storage building,  camping equipment etc). Very inexpensive for the expertise and experience. 

Anyway,  we built a very nice website for the time,  and out of the blue we received a monthly best of world sailing internet club site from whatever world sailing was back then. 

A few months later we received a demand from AS that we affiliate, charge each attendee an extra fee to go to AS, and require all leaders ( a youth hostel term) become AS members. 

Via YHA legal,  we politely told them to fuck off, they had no jurisdiction because we did not run any races using the RRS or equivalent of the time. 

You would think that perhaps they might have been keen to do the opposite and prove a level of sort to a grass roots activity that encouraged me people into sailing.  Of course not,  they just wanted money. 

Probably averaged about 200 newbies per year, in the 5 to 10 years or so i was involved. 

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

No it was the then QYA. RQ lead the charge against them (there were some very good people running the club back then.) The board and QYA came up with this hair brained scheme that would have the sailing schools hand over any customer enquires to a company they formed called YATL. (This was a JV with AYF.) The plan was that YATL would then appoint us schools to deliver the training to teach our own customers, and we would pay YATL a handsome fee for the privilege of training our own customers. We formed C.U.N.T. and told them to bash it up their arse and accredited with the worlds leading maritime training organisation and YA were effectively out of the yacht traning game. This fuck up cost YA $100’s of thousands. Later on we at the RYA developed the national keelboat scheme for YA (teaching people to sail in smaller yachts like J24’s) I went around the country rolling out the instructor training in each state. We then handed it over to YA and they fucked it up in no time and now most clubs just do their own thing. QYA led YA by the nose into the Abyss in regards to training and now YA sailing training is a joke and it’s Certificates are not recognised overseas. 

I still have a copy of the training package they wrote. As an example we did not teach anchoring, it was in a subject called ‘establishing and maintaining an overnight camp site’. I shit you not. 

The SA clown car has a long history.

I think that might have been stage two of their do over of sailing training. We had a guy on the river here doing some sort of accredited  'yachtmaster' (may have the name wrong) course but had to go out of business with that change. I recall (and this was immediately just after the change) it wasn't financially viable for a business of his scale to do whatever he had to do to get the qualification to teach.

 

37 minutes ago, dfw_sailor said:

In about the early 90s, I was heavily involved with the Youth Hostels Australia Sailing Activity based first in Inverloch with a move to lake learmonth. The activity simply brought together sailors and newbies for a cheap weekend of mono and multi hull introductory sailing experience (10 boats,  a rib, a storage building,  camping equipment etc). Very inexpensive for the expertise and experience. 

Anyway,  we built a very nice website for the time,  and out of the blue we received a monthly best of world sailing internet club site from whatever world sailing was back then. 

A few months later we received a demand from AS that we affiliate, charge each attendee an extra fee to go to AS, and require all leaders ( a youth hostel term) become AS members. 

Via YHA legal,  we politely told them to fuck off, they had no jurisdiction because we did not run any races using the RRS or equivalent of the time. 

You would think that perhaps they might have been keen to do the opposite and prove a level of sort to a grass roots activity that encouraged me people into sailing.  Of course not,  they just wanted money. 

Probably averaged about 200 newbies per year, in the 5 to 10 years or so i was involved. 

This was more about the time I was talking of.

Essentially most of their clubs used their juniors (and some adults) as volunteer sail training assistants. They'd be in the boats teaching under supervision from head trainer. It was great for the kids involved because it gave them a sense of responsibility and giving back plus it would really impress the new families that sailing was a sport where the juniors were competent and confident enough to do this.

But As suddenly wanted 'assistant trainers to have formal qualifications, granted at no insignificant cost in time and money; blowing up the whole system and basically forcing clubs that wanted to continue out of having an AS certified course.

Then of course they came up with the "we know how to do it better and you will do it by having Optimists sailing back and forwards off the beach". Useless if you've got 10 tiers of moored boats off your club beach or sail in a four knot river flow (in a three knot boat) and scares the less confident kids witless. But who were we to argue, even if we'd been running it for a couple of decades. They're the experts.

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AS suffers from an identity crisis, stemming from the term ‘Peak Body’. Of what? Everything that has a sail? Why for fucks sake? Who made them god? What they do is produce endless reports, glossy brochures and presentations outline all the various boardroom Bingo buzzwords they can rake together.

They were formed to run an Olympic Games and pick a team to go. They should stick to that, and ,continuing to be a safe pair on hands in the fine admission of the RRS, and its appeals process. (Can’t do purple on my phone). Hand out a few gongs to the deserving each year and run national titles for their larger clubs flag officers to win. 

Apart from they should leave the rest to industry, professionals, clubs and most of all sailers to do what they want without AS having to have a piece of it.

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42 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Apart from they should leave the rest to industry, professionals, clubs and most of all sailers to do what they want without AS having to have a piece of it.

Every activity in Government, business and nearly all private these days requires some form of authority or licence to partake in that activity. If you fuck up that activity you get a holiday or are struck off by an authority or maybe an industry body. There are procedures for appeal incl complaints for 3rd parties.

It started in the animal kingdom on who got to eat and who didn't and when they got two legs and stood up it continued. Like who got the chalk to draw shit on the cave wall or bang Wilma and who didn't. It since has evolved to the above.

A sailing club has numerous such authorities to operate. One of those is AS accreditation.  

When was the last time AS intervened and threatened or in fact took away that accreditation from a signature club for fucking up? When in fact has AS ever been dragged across the coals by an authority outside a court? You can actually count more times AS intervention involved siding with those signature clubs in a club  member dispute and fucking their individual AS members over.

AS are an aberration amoungst the above and can't see it. The Club's particularly the big ones see it and love the lack of accountability. They threaten anyone who questions them with expulsion. Those that make the both of them come into being and make it happen have no one in their corner and get fucked up the arse by the other two cunts in the cave just like Wilma.

Take the chalk away from the AS cunts if they don't change their ways pronto.

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40 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

and run national titles for their larger clubs flag officers to win. 

As have no business running races.  Thats got to be left to the Clubs.  AS dont have the expertise to run a chook raffle let alone run a race.

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1 hour ago, trt131 said:

As have no business running races.  Thats got to be left to the Clubs.  AS dont have the expertise to run a chook raffle let alone run a race.

Fuck that’s the end for chook raffles now, AS will surely start running them

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3 hours ago, trt131 said:

As have no business running races.  Thats got to be left to the Clubs.  AS dont have the expertise to run a chook raffle let alone run a race.

I agree but the term we use around here is 'Couldn't run a greasy stick up a dead dogs arse'.

Everything is more colorful here is SE Qld.

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

AS suffers from an identity crisis, stemming from the term ‘Peak Body’. Of what? Everything that has a sail? Why for fucks sake? Who made them god? What they do is produce endless reports, glossy brochures and presentations outline all the various boardroom Bingo buzzwords they can rake together.

They were formed to run an Olympic Games and pick a team to go. They should stick to that, and ,continuing to be a safe pair on hands in the fine admission of the RRS, and its appeals process. (Can’t do purple on my phone). Hand out a few gongs to the deserving each year and run national titles for their larger clubs flag officers to win. 

Apart from they should leave the rest to industry, professionals, clubs and most of all sailers to do what they want without AS having to have a piece of it. 

Everyone wants to do what they want until a bad man doesn't do the right thing by them, then they expect a body like AS to 'do their job'.

Everyone wants everyone to use the RRS when boats meet, but doesn't want to pay affiliation fees.

Everyone wants any benefits without any restrictions.  Sorry, but the world doesn't work like that.

YCMTSU

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52 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I agree but the term we use around here is 'Couldn't run a greasy stick up a dead dogs arse'.

Everything is more colorful here is SE Qld.

I was always quite partial to the Rodney Rude version... "Couldn't run a choko vine over a shithouse" 

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Thing is, “Accredited peak bodies” hang around spinning coin via bureaucracy and annoying the vast majority until something happens and a Government asks them for input and future control policy and Boom!
Before you know it a self appointed annoyance becomes a legislative entity reporting to an appointed minister. Then everyone needs to be certified and  accredited to their syllabus, licensed and paid up to officially breath, meanwhile they couldnt and wouldnt work in an iron lung...... Oh wait....

Been there, done that... Never again. 

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Had heard a few months back, Noosa Yacht & Rowing Club, had told AS to bgger off.

it could have been the other way around, though.

the Noosa club is doing very well, good numbers of kids sailing.

 The "parting"?anyone hear anything about 

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As I understand it was an issue at Surf to City as some of the inshore fleet were not members of an affiliated club ie NYRC

I believe the OA gave them memberships to do the race at next to no charge.

Problem solved.

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15 hours ago, astro said:

Everyone wants everyone to use the RRS when boats meet, but doesn't want to pay affiliation fees.

 

Maybe I'm slow, but can someone explain to me how and why AS claims "ownership" of the RRS?

As I see it, the RRS evolved through the sailors themselves, probably through their delegates the national bodies to a large extent - but that's the point - the national bodies are the delegates of the competitors, not a higher authority invested by God with the power to rule the sport.

One cannot clothe oneself with authority - it must be devolved.  If the competitors rule themselves (as they did initially) and delegate the role of rule rule setting to their national authorities, the power to make rules still resides with the competitors and they can withdraw the delegation to bodies like AS or WS anytime.

So how do AS come to claim that they "own" the RRS?

Genuine question ...

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To add, we also paid AS / YA to do this for us. It’s their job. 

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57 minutes ago, Livia said:

They don't "own" the RRS.

 

Incorrect.

Read the Racing Rules of Sailing Reproduction Policy parts 1 and 2.

World Sailing own the RRS.

Then read the rest of the document and be amazed.

I'll leave someone else with the task of detailing the history of how all this came about.

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Interesting if you go to Australian Sailing website and look at their menu there is not one tab for clubs - they have 'Member States'; 'Club in Focus'; 'Club Conference' but not one tab that says find a club or list of clubs - unless you wait for the seven icons on the far right to cycle through!

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5 hours ago, Recidivist said:

As I see it, the RRS evolved through the sailors themselves, probably through their delegates the national bodies to a large extent - but that's the point - the national bodies are the delegates of the competitors, not a higher authority invested by God with the power to rule the sport. 

See Don's post above. 

A sport only exists if there are rules to govern it.  Once there are rules they have to be administered, peak bodies have to be invented.

If you don't want to follow rules of the sport , you can sail in mindless circles using your own rules with all your like-minded friends here.  Otherwise you appear to want the benefits without the restrictions, everything has a cost, as you should know by now.

The below article describes World Sailings handling of RRS and who can and cannot use it.

The Hidden Dangers of Casual-Race Rules

 

 

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Oh and I forgot one more important thing.

Those most vocal at shafting peak bodies are almost without exception, people who do not give their time to the sport.  Whiney little bitches who run when there are jobs to do.

No truer than in this sailing world.

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3 minutes ago, astro said:

Those most vocal at shafting peak bodies are almost without exception, people who do not give their time to the sport.  

Or do give their time sometimes for decades and finally throw in the towel after the treatment they receive.  

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59 minutes ago, astro said:

The below article describes World Sailings handling of RRS and who can and cannot use it.

The Hidden Dangers of Casual-Race Rules

Rule 89.1 does not permit any old club to organize a race. In fact, Rule 89.1 lists eight types of organizations that are permitted to organize a race: “World Sailing; a member national authority of World Sailing; an affiliated club; an affiliated organization other than a club, and if so prescribed by the national authority, with the approval of the national authority or in conjunction with an affiliated club; an unaffiliated class association, either with the approval of the national authority or in conjunction with the affiliated club; two or more of the above organizations; an unaffiliated body in conjunction with unaffiliated club where the body is owned and controlled by the club. The national authority of the club may prescribe that its approval is required for such an event; or if approved by World sailing and the national authority of the club, and unaffiliated body in conjunction with an affiliated club where the body is not owned and controlled by the club.”

Rule 75.1 requires the person who enters a boat in a race to be “a member of a club or other organization affiliated to a World ­Sailing member national authority”

If the RRS do not apply, the International Regulations for ­Preventing Collisions at Sea govern the race. 

So two pillars of compliance for RRS to apply. OA having to be AS affiliated and vessel entry has to be by an AS member otherwise RRS right of way rules automatically default to COLREGS, irrespective of the entrant acknowledging RRS apply.

I wonder how many Aust insurance underwriters are across that?

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32 minutes ago, astro said:

Oh and I forgot one more important thing.

Those most vocal at shafting peak bodies are almost without exception, people who do not give their time to the sport.  Whiney little bitches who run when there are jobs to do.

No truer than in this sailing world.

If you are addressing this towards me, I'm afraid your generalisation fails by almost 5 decades of giving time on club committees, race committees, protest committees, membership of MNAs, training (both juniors and adults), coaching, measuring, course setting, race management , providing my own boats to assist with running events, maintenance of rescue boats and shore facilities and even cooking BBQs for competitors. So GFY.

I have also raced many, many times in events conducted by clubs that are not affiliated with AS, and assisted in conducting such events.  What I do with my time when not involved in "affiliated events" is no business of AS and I have made my view on that perfectly clear over the years.

AS is the servant of competitors, not their master, and it's high time they started to conduct themselves accordingly.

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3 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

I have also raced many, many times in events conducted by clubs that are not affiliated with AS, and assisted in conducting such events.  What I do with my time when not involved in "affiliated events" is no business of AS and I have made my view on that perfectly clear over the years.

AS is the servant of competitors, not their master, and it's high time they started to conduct themselves accordingly.

Of course, you are a free agent or a Sovereign Citizen and no one can tell you what to do right?

"Here’s one more problem that can occur in informal racing that does not use the RRS. In such a race, you expose yourself to added financial risk. Suppose you or your crew were injured or your boat was ­seriously damaged in a casual or informal race that did not use the RRS. When the RRS do not apply, the International Regulations for ­Preventing ­Collisions at Sea govern the race. If you have studied the IRPCAS at all, you know that the rights and obligations of boats under the ­IRPCAS are vastly different from the rights and obligations under the RRS. What seems like the simplest of maneuvers, like tacking from port to ­starboard, might violate the IRPCAS, even when the maneuver was carried out in full compliance with the RRS. This means, if there is injury or damage during a race, responsibility for the costs of that injury or damage will be based on fault as determined by application of the IRPCAS and not the RRS.

 

A few years ago, in an incident between two keelboats, there was damage that cost several thousand dollars to repair. The boats were on opposite tacks, racing under the IRPCAS and not the RRS, and there was no protest committee. An insurance ­company for one of the boats asked me to apply the IRPCAS to the incident.

Under the racing rules, there would have been no doubt that the port-tack boat would have broken Rule 10 and been responsible for all, or almost all, of the costs of repair. But, applying the IRPCAS, I found that the ­starboard-tack boat was at fault. The lesson from this is clear: Sail with great care in any race that does not use the ­Racing Rules of Sailing."

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5 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

AS is the servant of competitors, not their master, and it's high time they started to conduct themselves accordingly.

This. 

Mate I wish I could talk like you. Do you know of a school I could attend? 

On 9/29/2020 at 12:38 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Those that make the both of them come into being and make it happen have no one in their corner and get fucked up the arse by the other two cunts in the cave just like Wilma.

Take the chalk away from the AS cunts if they don't change their ways pronto.

 

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8 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

AS is the servant of competitors, not their master, and it's high time they started to conduct themselves accordingly. 

So did they 'move your cheese'?

What did they do to you petal?

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2 minutes ago, astro said:

Of course, you are a free agent or a Sovereign Citizen and no one can tell you what to do right?

More than 2 decades dealing with the concept of Parliamentary Supremacy - you may have to look that up, but you are dead wrong again.

And I read the article, you didn't need to quote it in it's entirety.  That one should be aware doesn't mean that one must not do something that is different.  Have you ever tried "thinking out of the square"?

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4 minutes ago, astro said:

So did they 'move your cheese'?

What did they do to you petal?

Oh fuck, you are making less sense than normal.  I gave up on you as Random, and I'm giving up again. 

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1 minute ago, Recidivist said:

More than 2 decades dealing with the concept of Parliamentary Supremacy - you may have to look that up, but you are dead wrong again.

And I read the article, you didn't need to quote it in it's entirety.  That one should be aware doesn't mean that one must not do something that is different.  Have you ever tried "thinking out of the square"?

Weasel words.  I did not quote it "in it's entirety".  You didn't read it did you!

Have you ever tried claiming damages or assigning fault when not under RRS?

Go "outside the square', awesome, whatever the fuck that means.  But you are on your own, good luck in court.

So far you have been flinging shit without saying what the fuck AS did that pissed you off?   Spit it out mate ... if you have anything.

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1 hour ago, astro said:

A few years ago, in an incident between two keelboats, there was damage that cost several thousand dollars to repair...

...An insurance ­company for one of the boats asked me to apply the IRPCAS to the incident.

1 hour ago, astro said:

  Spit it out mate ... if you have anything.

 

Randumb several thousand $ on boats that are only 3 foot long!!!! Fuck me. 

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I wonder how many Aust insurance underwriters are across that?

There is an unaffiliated club in Pittwater that runs races including a popular twilight series.  They profess to use the racing rules of sailing.  A number of boats from affiliated clubs race with them in this series.  A major insurer has made it very clear that they will not pay claims for damage suffered during these races.  However many boats from affiliated clubs continue to rock to the start line.  It can only end in tears.

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Looks like Recyclist has nothing to say about AS that pissed him off.

You see that happen so often, they fling shit around but run away when called out for specifics.

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10 minutes ago, trt131 said:

There is an unaffiliated club in Pittwater that runs races including a popular twilight series.  They profess to use the racing rules of sailing.  A number of boats from affiliated clubs race with them in this series.  A major insurer has made it very clear that they will not pay claims for damage suffered during these races.  However many boats from affiliated clubs continue to rock to the start line.  It can only end in tears.

NSW is a special case because of Col Reg 1A there

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22 minutes ago, trt131 said:

There is an unaffiliated club in Pittwater that runs races including a popular twilight series.  They profess to use the racing rules of sailing.  A number of boats from affiliated clubs race with them in this series.  A major insurer has made it very clear that they will not pay claims for damage suffered during these races.  However many boats from affiliated clubs continue to rock to the start line.  It can only end in tears.

I sailed at a club that raced under COLREGS (for a short time).  Imagine that, nearing a rounding mark and calling up the other boat on the VHF to ask them about their intentions.

Funni part was that some of them did not understand COLREGS anyway.

This leads to some really dangerous situations.  That club hosted an RRS event, I was on port planing to duck a larger (X2 displacement) yacht on Starboard.  Because he had no experience at close crosses, in the last few seconds he panicked and changed course towards me, nightmare!!!!   We passed each other in opposite directions close enough the take the rivet head off a lifeline fitting.

There are many reasons why clubs shy away from RRS, including that they do not want to be the Organising Authority.

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2 hours ago, Recidivist said:

More than 2 decades dealing with the concept of Parliamentary Supremacy - you may have to look that up, but you are dead wrong again.

And I read the article, you didn't need to quote it in it's entirety.  That one should be aware doesn't mean that one must not do something that is different.  Have you ever tried "thinking out of the square"?

When it comes to Randumb, those extra words weren't required.

FKT

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3 hours ago, astro said:

The below article describes World Sailings handling of RRS and who can and cannot use it.

The Hidden Dangers of Casual-Race Rules

 

This means that in order to enter your boat in any race in the United States, you must be a member of a club or organization affiliated to US Sailing or you yourself must be a member of US Sailing.

It doesn't say that at all, you can be a member of any affiliated club doesn't have to be from the same country as the organiser.

The whole article is a PR piece.

Quite a lot of the RRS stuff is trying to impose rules on yachts / owners etc that are not affiliated, arrogance?

"Rule 75.1 requires the ­person who enters a boat in a race to be “a member of a club or other organization affiliated to a World Sailing member national authority"

If you want to race against another boat for whatever reason and are not a member of ..... they can't stop you, you just can't race using RRS

The whole bit about "Prohibited Events" who do they think they are? Rules about events that they have no jurisdiction over? Not really the right approach to grow the sport, what am I missing here?

 

 

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14 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

The whole bit about "Prohibited Events" who do they think they are? Rules about events that they have no jurisdiction over? Not really the right approach to grow the sport, what am I missing here?

You are missing all the reasons that the RRS are there.

They are not interested in "events that they have no jurisdiction over", you have misunderstood or misrepresented the context.  Any club can sail in any race they invent, WS will not stop them, as long as they don't publicly declare the use of RRS.

People don't only steal shit from the share house fridges, they also steal rules that they do not contribute to or fund.

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1 minute ago, BOI Guy said:

 

The whole article is a PR piece.

^^^This

If you want to race against another boat for whatever reason and are not a member of ..... they can't stop you, you just can't race using RRS

See below

The whole bit about "Prohibited Events" who do they think they are? Rules about events that they have no jurisdiction over? Not really the right approach to grow the sport, what am I missing here?

Totally agree

 

 

I skippered a large boat in an international yacht race that was a "grudge match" with one other large boat that was very well sailed.  There were about 100 cruising boats sailing the same course - we raced each other for a dozen bottles of rum.  We abided by the RRS (of which both competitors were completely familiar) for pre-start manouvres, then once we had both cleared the start line we never came into close physical proximity again for the 500+ mile race.  Absolutely no problem. 

Is AS going to revoke my ability to race in "sanctioned events" because of this?  Of course not, they didn't know anything about it - so why threaten to do so?

Fuckwits.  See BOI Guy's 3rd point!

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6 minutes ago, Recidivist said:

I skippered a large boat in an international yacht race that was a "grudge match" with one other large boat that was very well sailed.  There were about 100 cruising boats sailing the same course - we raced each other for a dozen bottles of rum.  We abided by the RRS (of which both competitors were completely familiar) for pre-start manouvres, then once we had both cleared the start line we never came into close physical proximity again for the 500+ mile race.  Absolutely no problem. 

Is AS going to revoke my ability to race in "sanctioned events" because of this?  Of course not, they didn't know anything about it - so why threaten to do so?

Fuckwits.  See BOI Guy's 3rd point!

So interesting!!!!

Tell us about the "international yacht race" that was not under AS documentation?

But it is an amazing story, two boats over 500+ miles and not one collision!!!!   Sounds impossible!!!

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I get that, but thats not what it says, RRS and WS use the term "race".

Seems to be missing in the definitions, maybe it should be.

6 minutes ago, astro said:

They are not interested in "events that they have no jurisdiction over", you have misunderstood or misrepresented the context.  Any club can sail in any race they invent, WS will not stop them, as long as they don't publicly declare the use RRS.

Read the article again, WS Prohibited Events and its implications, its the whole point of the article. Affiliated sailors competing in "Prohibited Events" and the threat of banishment. Makes WS look very intersted in sailors sailing in non RRS events.

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18 minutes ago, astro said:

Any club can sail in any race they invent, WS will not can"t stop them

There's that arrogance coming in again, it's not their choice 

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6 minutes ago, BOI Guy said:

Affiliated sailors competing in "Prohibited Events" and the threat of banishment. Makes WS look very intersted in sailors sailing in non RRS events.

You are being deliberately obtuse no?

Prohibited for affiliated sailors, not prohibited race.  Grow the fuck up and admit when you are wrong.

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3 hours ago, astro said:

Tell us about the "international yacht race" that was not under AS documentation?

Where do we start? Ocean Race, America's Cup, Fastnet, Vendee Globe, Olympics? I don't see AS having much to do with any of them.

Now you probably meant WS rather than AS but in this case

3 hours ago, astro said:

Grow the fuck up and admit when you are wrong.

 

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7 hours ago, (p)Irate said:

Where do we start? Ocean Race, America's Cup, Fastnet, Vendee Globe, Olympics? I don't see AS having much to do with any of them.

Now you probably meant WS rather than AS but in this case

 

Now you are just not being obtuse, like the Recyclist, but just a smart cunt.

That's what happens when you start to unpick the criticism, that's all they got.

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9 hours ago, (p)Irate said:

Where do we start? Ocean Race, America's Cup, Fastnet, Vendee Globe, Olympics? I don't see AS having much to do with any of them.

Now you probably meant WS rather than AS but in this case

 

(p)irate, you quoted astro, so I saw his polite request for information about the non-AS international yacht race.  Happy to provide some context.  The year was 2007 and the Darwin-Ambon Race was still suspended due to the religious violence in Ambon.  The owners of 2 boats wanted to go anyway, but one boat couldn't get insurance for Ambon.  Instead, they agreed to join with the Sail Indonesia Darwin to Kupang Rally, but for the 2 boats Australian Maid and Helsal 2 to race under IRC handicap.  I skippered Helsal.  To the best of my knowledge, this is the only time the race to Kupang was run - the following year we raced back to Ambon again.

Also, for many years, the Darwin Ambon Race was conducted by Dinah Beach Cruising Yacht Association, a club that is not affiliated with AS.  I also co-skippered Helsal 2 in that race in 2008, teaming up with Bill Rawson, the previous owner of the boat.  I did that race a number of times, sometimes organised by Darwin Sailing Club (AS affiliated), sometimes by Cruising Yacht Association of NT (affiliated I think) and sometimes DBCYA (unaffiliated).

Any further questions?  Perhaps astro would like to regale us with his extensive experience in blue water yacht racing that allows him to cast aspersions on others?

 

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22 hours ago, Recidivist said:

Oh fuck, you are making less sense than normal.  I gave up on you as Random, and I'm giving up again. 

Now where's that fuckin' airplane again?

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On 9/1/2020 at 10:48 PM, shaggybaxter said:

There is less demand due to their actions. Simply attempting to maintain an overhead and a loss of demand (caused by your failings) is kinda page 1 of how not to run an org.

A far more intelligent use of resources would be to correct the actions that is causing the loss of demand. 

Or maybe I'm just a simpleton. 

 

Speaking of demand, AS get RQ to hold a State IRC Championships and most say fuck off and go to Bribie Cup.

too funny that St Helena Cup this weekend has 25 Irc boats entered.

Can you give the trophies back and call St Helena Cup the State IRC Championships GRS.

How does that happen, that's right AS are not involved.

 

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9 hours ago, Recidivist said:

(p)irate, you quoted astro, so I saw his polite request for information about the non-AS international yacht race.  Happy to provide some context.  The year was 2007 and the Darwin-Ambon Race was still suspended due to the religious violence in Ambon.  The owners of 2 boats wanted to go anyway, but one boat couldn't get insurance for Ambon.  Instead, they agreed to join with the Sail Indonesia Darwin to Kupang Rally, but for the 2 boats Australian Maid and Helsal 2 to race under IRC handicap.  I skippered Helsal.  To the best of my knowledge, this is the only time the race to Kupang was run - the following year we raced back to Ambon again.

Also, for many years, the Darwin Ambon Race was conducted by Dinah Beach Cruising Yacht Association, a club that is not affiliated with AS.  I also co-skippered Helsal 2 in that race in 2008, teaming up with Bill Rawson, the previous owner of the boat.  I did that race a number of times, sometimes organised by Darwin Sailing Club (AS affiliated), sometimes by Cruising Yacht Association of NT (affiliated I think) and sometimes DBCYA (unaffiliated).

Any further questions?  Perhaps astro would like to regale us with his extensive experience in blue water yacht racing that allows him to cast aspersions on others?

 

On 9/30/2020 at 5:57 PM, astro said:

Looks like Recyclist has nothing to say about AS that pissed him off.

You see that happen so often, they fling shit around but run away when called out for specifics.

So where is that dipshit now ?

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11 hours ago, Recidivist said:

Any further questions?  Perhaps astro would like to regale us with his extensive experience in blue water yacht racing that allows him to cast aspersions on others?

Nice, impressive story mate.

I have done a bit of blue water racing, it bores the fuck out of me.  So many ocean racers fail when it comes to around the cans one-design stuff.  They don't get it.  That's why a lot of ocean racing skippers really value dinghy sailors as trimmers or even on the helm for waves.

The only part I like about ocean racing is the sheer pleasure of coming off watch and crashing in the clothes I had on into the hot bunk.  Fucking best sleep  have I ever had.  It's called the doing the Black Snake, going the bed with your clothes on.  Doing 'The Tiapan' is when you still have your boots as well.  I have done that.  One race most of the crew and the skipper were incapacitated with the sickness, did a double watch on a rough night, the sleep was so awesome, boots on.

The rest you can have.

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1 hour ago, astro said:

 It's called the doing the Black Snake, going the bed with your clothes on.  Doing 'The Tiapan' is when you still have your boots as well.  I have done that.  One race most of the crew and the skipper were incapacitated with the sickness, did a double watch on a rough night, the sleep was so awesome, boots on.

 

And a post like that is known as playing with your one eyed trouser snake. 

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2 hours ago, astro said:

Nice, impressive story mate.

I have done a bit of blue water racing, it bores the fuck out of me.  So many ocean racers fail when it comes to around the cans one-design stuff.  They don't get it.  That's why a lot of ocean racing skippers really value dinghy sailors as trimmers or even on the helm for waves.

The only part I like about ocean racing is the sheer pleasure of coming off watch and crashing in the clothes I had on into the hot bunk.  Fucking best sleep  have I ever had.  It's called the doing the Black Snake, going the bed with your clothes on.  Doing 'The Tiapan' is when you still have your boots as well.  I have done that.  One race most of the crew and the skipper were incapacitated with the sickness, did a double watch on a rough night, the sleep was so awesome, boots on.

The rest you can have.

The defense rests.

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2 hours ago, astro said:

Nice, impressive story mate.

I have done a bit of blue water racing, it bores the fuck out of me.  So many ocean racers fail when it comes to around the cans one-design stuff.  They don't get it.  That's why a lot of ocean racing skippers really value dinghy sailors as trimmers or even on the helm for waves.

The only part I like about ocean racing is the sheer pleasure of coming off watch and crashing in the clothes I had on into the hot bunk.  Fucking best sleep  have I ever had.  It's called the doing the Black Snake, going the bed with your clothes on.  Doing 'The Tiapan' is when you still have your boots as well.  I have done that.  One race most of the crew and the skipper were incapacitated with the sickness, did a double watch on a rough night, the sleep was so awesome, boots on.

The rest you can have.

Holy heck! What was the Race and the sickness that rolled most of the crew and the skipper for 2watches on a race? Sounds awfully harsh conditions.

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2 hours ago, astro said:

The only part I like about ocean racing is the sheer pleasure of coming off watch and crashing in the clothes I had on into the hot bunk.  Fucking best sleep  have I ever had.  It's called the doing the Black Snake, going the bed with your clothes on.  Doing 'The Tiapan' is when you still have your boots as well.  I have done that.  One race most of the crew and the skipper were incapacitated with the sickness, did a double watch on a rough night, the sleep was so awesome, boots on.

What the fuck?

When do you get to sleep like that? Mostly I've slept wedged into the sails cause there is less distance to fall, woken up every time we tack so I can change sides. What gentlemen racing are you doing where you get to take your boots off?

When this covid shit is over I want to come race in QLD with you guys. I suppose you sit down to roasts and red wine dinners as well?

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7 hours ago, Se7en said:

What the fuck?

When do you get to sleep like that? Mostly I've slept wedged into the sails cause there is less distance to fall, woken up every time we tack so I can change sides. What gentlemen racing are you doing where you get to take your boots off?

When this covid shit is over I want to come race in QLD with you guys. I suppose you sit down to roasts and red wine dinners as well?

You need to get a bigger boat and a downhill race.

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7 hours ago, Se7en said:

What the fuck?

When do you get to sleep like that? Mostly I've slept wedged into the sails cause there is less distance to fall, woken up every time we tack so I can change sides. What gentlemen racing are you doing where you get to take your boots off?

When this covid shit is over I want to come race in QLD with you guys. I suppose you sit down to roasts and red wine dinners as well?

Only on Good Friday!

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7 hours ago, Se7en said:

What the fuck?

When do you get to sleep like that? Mostly I've slept wedged into the sails cause there is less distance to fall, woken up every time we tack so I can change sides. What gentlemen racing are you doing where you get to take your boots off?

When this covid shit is over I want to come race in QLD with you guys. I suppose you sit down to roasts and red wine dinners as well?

He asked the owner if he should bring his boots. The owner said ‘this is Queensland son- we just sail in thongs’.

imagine their surprise when he showed up wearing only a G-string and clutching  a tube of lube.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

He asked the owner if he should bring his boots. The owner said ‘this is Queensland son- we just sail in thongs’.

imagine their surprise when he showed up wearing only a G-string and clutching  a tube of lube.

That is how you dress on your boat. 

One question, do you slick back your hair on the boat or do you let it go free like when you at the beach?

 

1511277358_borat_mankini_sacah_baron_coh

 

 

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38 minutes ago, The Dark Knight said:

That is how you dress on your boat. 

One question, do you slick back your hair on the boat or do you let it go free like when you at the beach?

 

1511277358_borat_mankini_sacah_baron_coh

 

 

That's just wrong - long socks on the beach!!!

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3 hours ago, astro said:

You need to get a bigger boat and a downhill race.

Downhill is worse, everyone is crammed up the blunt end. And you get thrown further when the crew on deck forget to keep the boat under the sail.

52 ft is big enough, what I need to do is sail with folks who don't take it as seriously. Which is why I went cruising. Where I got woken up when the moon looked scarey and wife thought we were going to crash into it.

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59 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Downhill is worse, everyone is crammed up the blunt end. And you get thrown further when the crew on deck forget to keep the boat under the sail.

52 ft is big enough, what I need to do is sail with folks who don't take it as seriously. Which is why I went cruising. Where I got woken up when the moon looked scarey and wife thought we were going to crash into it.

Get a cat.

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4 hours ago, astro said:

Get a cat.

I'm not sure which I enjoy most, your indepth analysis over in the AC thread or here with respect to ocean racing. There can be no doubt, a true sailing legend. 

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5 hours ago, FinnFish said:

I'm not sure which I enjoy most, your indepth analysis over in the AC thread or here with respect to ocean racing. There can be no doubt, a true sailing legend. 

Were you the guy that got all butt hurt about me saying that white guys look stupid doing that stupid kiwi native dance?  Haka?

So you followed me here?

g5WD9ol.jpg

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On 10/1/2020 at 10:27 PM, FixinGit said:

Holy heck! What was the Race and the sickness that rolled most of the crew and the skipper for 2watches on a race? Sounds awfully harsh conditions.

@astro

??

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Melbourne Hobart down the West Coast we had 9 out of 11 reach for a bucket at some stage, some missed their next watch.
The owner was confined to his bunk for 2 days!

Conditions were peaking 50knots plus, on the nose for the first 12 hours. 

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Owners privilege.

Tasman/West is a goal i haven't tried for yet. Was that the boat astro was on too? 

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14 hours ago, FixinGit said:

Owners privilege.

Tasman/West is a goal i haven't tried for yet. Was that the boat astro was on too? 

It was awhile ago... I can’t remember who was there

The second evening was a drifter, @SPORTSCARwill remember the year and the dunny door story

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2 minutes ago, Rushman said:

It was awhile ago... I can’t remember who was there

The second evening was a drifter, @SPORTSCARwill remember the year and the dunny door story

(C) 1990 Chasseur? I think she still has nightmares about the dunny door 

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30 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

(C) 1990 Chasseur? I think she still has nightmares about the dunny door 

Correct

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On 10/2/2020 at 8:22 AM, The Dark Knight said:

That is how you dress on your boat. 

One question, do you slick back your hair on the boat or do you let it go free like when you at the beach?

 

1511277358_borat_mankini_sacah_baron_coh

 

 

It’s great to see GRS modeling the new AS managements  beach uniform that they will be sporting this season. 

 

Pulpit

 

 

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