winchfodder

World Sailing in the Red. Where has all the money gone?

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5 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Is the cost of the World Sailihg tv show in the annual accounts?

I think it was like $800k per year when they signed the contract.  It's in the docs somewhere.

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16 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I think it was like $800k per year when they signed the contract.  It's in the docs somewhere.

Wow! For a technically bankrupt organisation I don't really see why a sailing organisation can be justifying this amount to promote the sport compared with encouraging grass root and youth sailing - how much do they put into that? - or do they just leave that to the member authorities. The content of the shows seems very elitist as well. Was there any debate on continuing with the show at this years meeting considering the dire finances?

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On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:16 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

I think it was like $800k per year when they signed the contract.  It's in the docs somewhere.

Well, last year they received $1.4million for "Special Events" revenue. This includes SailGP, World Match Racing Tour, Star Sailors League, PWA World Tour and the Global Kitesports Associations freestyle world tours. I am sure those folks are expecting value for their money. My guess is TV is part of that.

I am not defending WS, just pointing some things out.

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On 11/7/2019 at 1:53 PM, Wavedancer II said:

Who was 'supervising' Andy Hunt while he was loosing all this money?

Someone else should be held accountable!

 

Lo and behold, Kim Andersen and WS Perry appear to be most responsible. Here is a link to the latest directors' and financial report:

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/SP5b2018WorldSailingUKLimitedAccounts-[25637].pdf

 

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On 11/12/2019 at 9:48 PM, torrid said:

I guess since they own the word "world", they get money for any world championship?

You guess wrong.

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On 11/12/2019 at 9:08 AM, winchfodder said:

For a technically bankrupt organisation 

"Technically bankrupt" is exactly what they are not. No such thing under UK company law. The word is "involvent" when a company cannot pay its debts. WS can pay its debts, provided someone lends them the money. Actually huge numbers of UK companies continue to trade when they cannot pay their debts, even though they shouldn't.  Nothing tends to happen until a bank pulls the plug. I have had an education in this process from the creditor viewpoint, twice now.

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/involvent/insolvent/
My vague understanding is that in the UK provided a company can still service its debts and get loans so there's a sensible prospect of recovery then its not illegal to continue to trade.

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On November 13, 2019 at 7:06 PM, Wavedancer II said:

Lo and behold, Kim Andersen and WS Perry appear to be most responsible. Here is a link to the latest directors' and financial report:

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/SP5b2018WorldSailingUKLimitedAccounts-[25637].pdf

 

These are the financials for WS UK which is subsidiary of WS. Their business is the provision of administrative and technical services for their parent (WS). It would appear this entity is used to flow money for employee remuneration, and some other stuff. The only Director that gets paid is the CEO. My guess is it is done this way as the employees will be UK citizens and need to be paid by a UK company (is there a UK accountant in the house?). 

Anyway. WS has always lived off the Olympic revenue. They got themselves in a spot of bother this time but nobody is suing them and they will get out of it. If every entity (or government...) that spent more money than they earned were deemed bankrupt or insolvent, the world economy would have collapsed as soon as banks were invented. WS may be guilty of some poor management and decisions, but even that would be subjective.

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20 hours ago, JimC said:

/involvent/insolvent/
My vague understanding is that in the UK provided a company can still service its debts and get loans so there's a sensible prospect of recovery then its not illegal to continue to trade.

That is correct.

FWIW companies that are potentially insolvent can also often secure a "Creditors Voluntary Agreement" (CVA) so that creditors get paid so many pence in the pound and the company keeps trading. In practice it is the bank(s) and HMRC (taxman) that decide this and small creditors just have to suck it up. Spoken from experience and with feeling. Some directors play the CVA card repeatedly which IMO should not be allowed. No suggestion WS is going this route. 

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21 hours ago, dogwatch said:

That is correct.

FWIW companies that are potentially insolvent can also often secure a "Creditors Voluntary Agreement" (CVA) so that creditors get paid so many pence in the pound and the company keeps trading. In practice it is the bank(s) and HMRC (taxman) that decide this and small creditors just have to suck it up. Spoken from experience and with feeling. Some directors play the CVA card repeatedly which IMO should not be allowed. No suggestion WS is going this route. 

Googling tells me there are no CVA’s in the Isle of Man. But there are options. Regardless, they aren’t going down. At least not yet.

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On 11/11/2019 at 4:16 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

I think it was like $800k per year when they signed the contract.  It's in the docs somewhere.

Looking at the content of the latest World Sailing TV show it is hard to see the justification for WS to spend $800k per year of member authority monies. Surely better spent on encouraging active participation such as youth sailing.

December World Sailing Show

Brest Atlantiques
Four huge Ultim Trimarans go head to head in brutal conditions for the first edition of the Brest Atlantiques Race. Skippered by some of the biggest names in world sailing the race takes the two-man crews from the French west coast to Brazil, then down to Cape Town and back up to the finish in Brest.

Aloha Classic
The PWA crown their new World Champions in the Wave discipline in Maui. Will 2019 see the end of a 20 year dominance by the Moreno twin sisters?

Transat Jacques Vabre
Fifty-nine boats lined up for the start of the 14th edition of the Transat Jacques Vabre, the longest and toughest double-handed transatlantic race. Three classes skippered by some of the world’s top oceanic sailors lined up at the start in le Havre, France.For many in the IMOCA class it’s a vital stepping stone on the campaign for the 2020 Vendee Globe.

iFoil
A new type of windsurf will be used at the Paris 2024 Olympic Games. The iFoil has been announced as the new class that will be contested in Marseilles, the sailing venue for Paris 2024.

Francis Joyon and IDEC Sport
French off-shore legend Francis Joyon has set himself four challenges in Asia. The 63-year-old has achieved his first – breaking his own speed record from Port St Louis in Brittany, France to Port St Louis, Mauritius aboard his 31.5 metre trimaran IDEC Sport.

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On 11/12/2019 at 2:34 PM, bill4 said:

Well, last year they received $1.4million for "Special Events" revenue. This includes SailGP, World Match Racing Tour, Star Sailors League, PWA World Tour and the Global Kitesports Associations freestyle world tours. I am sure those folks are expecting value for their money. My guess is TV is part of that.

I am not defending WS, just pointing some things out.

sounds like pretty normal business in most sports.  even crap tv shows are expensive to make.

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2 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Looking at the content of the latest World Sailing TV show it is hard to see the justification for WS to spend $800k per year of member authority monies. Surely better spent on encouraging active participation such as youth sailing.

No one asked you

Its not your money

They're definitely not 'technically bankrupt' (yet)

They do spend a lot of money on youth sailing (not as I would, but still)

 

If you're doing anything to improve the issue, let your community here know.  Otherwise, continue with your quest, fair knight.

Don+Quixote+by+Pablo+Picasso+-+Picture+F

 

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On 12/3/2019 at 4:08 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

No one asked you

Its not your money

They're definitely not 'technically bankrupt' (yet)

They do spend a lot of money on youth sailing (not as I would, but still)

 

If you're doing anything to improve the issue, let your community here know.  Otherwise, continue with your quest, fair knight.

Don+Quixote+by+Pablo+Picasso+-+Picture+F

 

Too true!

I don't recall hearing that any of my sailing friends have ever watched the World Sailing show.  So who does? Free to view on airline flights probably. Excellent target audience. Money well spent. 

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

Too true!

I don't recall hearing that any of my sailing friends have ever watched the World Sailing show.  So who does? Free to view on airline flights probably. Excellent target audience. Money well spent. 

Anecdotes are not data, regardless the online numbers are pretty dismal but it is not just on airplanes - it's also in some airports on the screens that no one watches.

And it's terrible.  Basically they redid Seamaster Sailing and it feels like the relic from the early 00s that it is.  So does world sailing for that matter.

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I question the sanity of a sailing community who gives absolute power of control to an organization That seems to spend all its money on some sort of mystery TV show almost none of the sailors has ever heard about much less seen and appreciated for its brilliance. 

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I must be in a minority, I quite like the World Sailing Show! I watch it regularly on YouTube. Yes it's a bit wooden but in my eyes it's better than nothing. Is it worth the money it costs to make, probably not, but I enjoy it.

Sailing on TV in the UK just doesn't exist. I think It is seen as to much of a minority elitist sport to warrant air time. We just seem to get soap operas, quiz shows & tons of crap reality stuff shoved down our throats.

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On 11/16/2019 at 1:56 AM, dogwatch said:

You guess wrong.

Not entirely wrong.

In order to host a world championship you either need to be a World Sailing designated international class and pay an annual fee for the privilege or.... (much more remunerative) , you can get special permission for a special event to designate it as a World event, which WS will charge you for and base their fee on the money involved. Its all tiny compared to the Olympic revenues but it is  nonetheless not entirely wrong that WS gets some money from world championships.

 

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17 minutes ago, Martin T said:

I must be in a minority, I quite like the World Sailing Show! I watch it regularly on YouTube. Yes it's a bit wooden but in my eyes it's better than nothing. Is it worth the money it costs to make, probably not, but I enjoy it.

Sailing on TV in the UK just doesn't exist. I think It is seen as to much of a minority elitist sport to warrant air time. We just seem to get soap operas, quiz shows & tons of crap reality stuff shoved down our throats.

"better than nothing'"isn't much of an endorsement.  

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25 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

"better than nothing'"isn't much of an endorsement.  

Maybe that's what his GF been telling him...

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Sailing is a participatory thing. It is not a form of entertainment for others. 
Sailing has been around for centuries. The game wasn’t built because people love to watch. The game won’t die if no one watches. 
Those who are tasked with organizing the game have absolutely ZERO reason to be wasting our resources on their misguided attempts to get more people to watch.

If a person  has time to watch sailing, that person ought to be sailing 

If a person is interested in sailing, our organizing bodies should be facilitating that person’s pathway to sailing. 

Fir the life of me I do not understand why ANY sailing Organizing authority AT ANY LEVEL, from those parents putting babies in Optis to The IYRU and its organization world championships, does ANYTHING other than gather and disseminate information about the game 

They all seem to think they should morph into publishing companies, policemen, religions, mafias, and everything but effective organization and promotional tools.

The ABSOLUTE ONLY REASON for the existence of any sailing authority to exist is the belief that organization will help improve the game it is established to organize. 
 

The least desirable and most essential reason to immediately dissolve any sailing organization would be when that organization is run by people who wish to be in charge. 

 

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9 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Those who are tasked with organizing the game have absolutely ZERO reason to be wasting our resources on their misguided attempts to get more people to watch.

 

What makes you think "our resources" are involved? From what sources do you think World Sailing derives its income and what do you think those sources want in return?

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I just found WS accounts on line for 2014-1017 (4 year cycle). Easily found.
Subscriptions 6%
Olympic     54%
Special Events  7%
Investment  1%
Other          32%
Other includes sponsorship and commercial. Its not split up in the 2014 and 2015 figures I saw.
So Olympics, special events and sponsorship/commercial is 93% of their income, so its probably not unreasonable that about 90% of their work is targeted towards those areas.  

ws1.jpg

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32% under other deserves further breakdown. And why isn't sponsorship in the totals? confusing.

In any case, there are standard metrics for overhead vs spend towards goals for non-profits. Does WS track these? Moving to an expensive city and hiring a star CEO usually tips the scales there. This is an observation, not a judgement: if the city is the right city and the CEO the right CEO, it can be the right thing to do.

However, like any big spend decision, it puts pressure to show positive outcomes.

(for the curious - https://www.google.com/search?q=nonprofit+overhead+percentage  ; it's a complex and somewhat controversial subject so you can spend hours reading...)

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4 hours ago, JimC said:

Other includes sponsorship and commercial. Its not split up in the 2014 and 2015 figures I saw.

3 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

32% under other deserves further breakdown. And why isn't sponsorship in the totals? confusing.

 

 

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6 hours ago, JimC said:

 

What is confusing, no confounding, is how WS spend the income largely coming from the Olympics. 

The Olympic money is a "thank you" to all the sailors from all over the world who aspire to and the few who actually compete in the Olympics, plus of course all the supporters of those sailors from family, friends, local companies, clubs, national authorities etc. 

So does WS spend this money wisely to promote, support and develop the sport from the grass roots upwards?

Seems that a large amount is wasted on an overblown management based in expensive offices backing up a hierarchy that runs up expenses flying around the world to meetings where they decide to dump large sums on TV programmes and other wacky ideas that hardly seem to help the sailors and the sport they are supposed to be supporting.. 

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3 hours ago, winchfodder said:

 

The Olympic money is a "thank you" to all the sailors from all over the world who aspire to and the few who actually compete in the Olympics, plus of course all the supporters of those sailors from family, friends, local companies, clubs, national authorities etc. 

 

Is it? I doubt the IOC views it as any such thing.

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20 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Is it? I doubt the IOC views it as any such thing.

Agree. No chance the IOC looks at it as anything other than simple dollars in.

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2 hours ago, bill4 said:

Agree. No chance the IOC looks at it as anything other than simple dollars in.

I wonder how other international sporting bodies spend the olympic windfall. 

Can anyone explain.

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World Sailing mission statement, explicitly includes development of sailing as a spectator sport.

 

https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/192616/World-Sailing-launches-new-strategic-positioning

 

Our mission:

To make sailing more exciting and accessible for everyone to participate or watch, and use our reach and influence to create a sustainable future for our sport and the waters of the world.

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

I wonder how other international sporting bodies spend the olympic windfall. 

Can anyone explain.

It would be astonishing if it were very different to World Sailing. The IOC don't give away money out of the goodness of their hearts.There are all sorts of regulations and requirements that must be expensively met. After all if a sport isn't doing its best to increase its TV audience, why the hell would you give them TV money?

One of the more naive criticisms of our national authority here in the UK is that they spend too much money on the olympic pathway and not enough on grassroots. The simple fact, though, is that the money spent on the Olympic stuff is ring fenced. The choice is not spending more or less on the grassroots. The choice is between taking the money to spend on the Olympics or not, with the same amount of money available to the grass roots in either case.

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Interesting report from TE that he recieved a letter from WS with an order to back down on his comments about the President which was fabricated with fake signatures from two of the vice presidents on the order of the president. 

TE is saying WS is over £2m in the red and getting worse. 

Clearly their should be a vote of no confidence in the president if he fails to step down for gross misconduct. If the committee do not do that then they are all compromised. 

Time also for WS to cut back as much as they can. 

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21 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Link please?

Around five minutes into TE video on sailing illustrated Tuesday video link on Facebook page. 

Letter has two signatures attached, Gary Jobson and Scott Perry, both WS vice presidents.  Both have confirmed in writing to TE that they did not sign the letter and did not give permission for their signatures to be used. 

Clearly fraudulent action taken by the WS President who should be sacked for gross misconduct. 

 

Screenshot_20200304-160944_Facebook.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Wess said:

Wow;  just wow. 

Heading towards $3m deficit this year. Any problems with olympic revenue and they will be dipping into the trust. 

Immediate saving would be the $1m+ spent per year on the WS tv show that has little to help the growth of the sport.

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1 minute ago, winchfodder said:

Heading towards $3m deficit this year. Any problems with olympic revenue and they will be dipping into the trust. 

Immediate saving would be the $1m+ spent per year on the WS tv show that has little to help the growth of the sport.

That they are fiscally irresponsible and a bunch of pick pockets is well known.  The semi threatening letter with apparently forged signatures?!?  WOW!!

This sport is so screwed up at the elite level its laughable even ignoring air rowing!

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

That they are fiscally irresponsible and a bunch of pick pockets is well known.  The semi threatening letter with apparently forged signatures?!?  WOW!!

This sport is so screwed up at the elite level its laughable even ignoring air rowing!

WS fraudulent report in the first five minutes

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1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

Around five minutes into TE video on sailing illustrated Tuesday video link on Facebook page. 

 

Oh God, you made me listen to Ehman droning on and on and on. How I loathe the patronising old fart.

But not a good look for WS either.

 

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Just now, dogwatch said:

Oh God, you made me listen to Ehman droning on and on and on. How I loathe the patronising old fart.

But not a good look for WS either.

 

My apologies for forcing you to listen to the self important old fart.

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

That they are fiscally irresponsible and a bunch of pick pockets is well known.  The semi threatening letter with apparently forged signatures?!?  WOW!!

This sport is so screwed up at the elite level its laughable even ignoring air rowing!

I'd recommend not saying anyone is guilty of a crime unless you have some good evidence of it.  It's an easy case if they want to come after you.

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At the recent major dinghy events I don't remember any competitors having much concern or discussion about what World Sailing is or isn't doing  or their finances. Everyone is concerned about the days events. 

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Every time I’ve been to a grocery store recently I did not hear anyone talking about farm subsidies, the FDA, or agricultural trade policies. Everyone is just concerned with buying food.

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1 minute ago, Old Yeller said:

Every time I’ve been to a grocery store recently I did not hear anyone talking about farm subsidies, the FDA, or agricultural trade policies. Everyone is just concerned with buying food.

I see you have been visiting the land of bad metaphors again

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15 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I see you have been visiting the land of bad metaphors again

Again?

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

I'd recommend not saying anyone is guilty of a crime unless you have some good evidence of it.  It's an easy case if they want to come after you.

Where does sending a letter with falsified signatures fit in the evidence folder. Would that justify dismissal on the grounds of gross misconduct?

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20 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Where does sending a letter with falsified signatures fit in the evidence folder. Would that justify dismissal on the grounds of gross misconduct?

That's forgery if true.   Who called it a forgery and do you have a link? 

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47 minutes ago, Old Yeller said:

Again?

bad metaphors are like roaches.  If you see one, you know there are thousands hiding just out of plain sight.

 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

That's forgery if true.   Who called it a forgery and do you have a link? 

Scott Perry wrote to TE saying that he did not give permission for his signature to be attached to the letter from WS. He also said that neither did his fellow VP Gary Jobson. So does that mean the original letter was a forgery. I would have thought so but I am not a lawyer. 

I note Scott Perry describes the actions of the WS as a 'sad confusion' , I think that he was being rather mild. I think it is forgery to attach a signature without consent. 

TE says he did not solicit the letter from Scott Perry. 

 

Screenshot_20200304-233932_Chrome.jpg

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11 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

Scott Perry wrote to TE saying that he did not give permission for his signature to be attached to the letter from WS. He also said that neither did his fellow VP Gary Jobson. So does that mean the original letter was a forgery.

It certainly does.  I wonder who has jurisdiction at WS's principal business address over crimes like forgery?

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4 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

It certainly does.  I wonder who has jurisdiction at WS's principal business address over crimes like forgery?

WS operates from the UK, though I bet some clever British lawyers and accountants have set it up as some sort of offshore trust based in the Caribbean as all the worlds wealthy seem to operate that way. 

Altogether the way that the current WS President has been operating looks to have bought the sport into disrepute. The governing council need at the very least dump a Rule 69 on him. Hopefully putting an end to his aspirations of moving up to the IOC. But then again they have had members called out before for corruption with little affect. 

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

bad metaphors are like roaches.  If you see one, you know there are thousands hiding just out of plain sight.

 

You’re reaching esquire. Week argument made with a tired simile.

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4 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

WS operates from the UK, though I bet some clever British lawyers and accountants have set it up as some sort of offshore trust based in the Caribbean as all the worlds wealthy seem to operate that way. 

If they sent that letter from the UK, UK has jurisdiction over the act.  Someone should let the authorities know. ;)

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Just making sure you’re paying attention 

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4 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

bad metaphors are like roaches.  If you see one, you know there are thousands hiding just out of plain sight.

Gramps said if you had a "roach clip" (whatever that is) you wouldn't have a bunch of roaches everywhere.

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Gramps sounds like a fun guy

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On 3/4/2020 at 11:55 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

It certainly does.  I wonder who has jurisdiction at WS's principal business address over crimes like forgery?

No news from WS? Shouldn't the council members demand that the president resign after instigating an act of forgery. In the UK forging a signature is a criminal offence under the 1981 Act. The police should be notified by the council members.

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55 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

No news from WS? Shouldn't the council members demand that the president resign after instigating an act of forgery. In the UK forging a signature is a criminal offence under the 1981 Act. The police should be notified by the council members.

did you file a complaint?

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I suspect that Mr. Andersen's days as President are numbered.

At best he made an inept mistake and acted on a sensitive issue without conducting due dilgence, at worst......well at worst he is in real trouble. Either way he showed fatal leadership failings which leave him distrusted by his board members and a public reputation severely wounded.    

PR Rule # 1 of an international organization, commercial or sporting, is that you never, ever chastise a media person/journalist without having your facts precise and double checked.

Rule #2 is that you communicate through a channel and not directly.

Because the risk is that if you are mistaken or wrong in your facts and you communicated directly......then the story becomes about "you".....and you have supplied the all the verification the story needs to run.

I worked with a CEO once who felt the company had been maligned by a journalist in the business section of a regional newspaper. Furious his office had called the WSJ and arranged to have an interview where he was going to "set the record straight".   We got to him just in time.  I told him the both the Journal-Constitution and the WSJ were going to be thrilled by his response. The story would shift from the company to him (human interest)  It was going to sell a lot of newspapers. They would both by winners and he would be the loser. Far better, we go through a respected third party who was trusted by the J-C to inquire about  some components of the story. It turned out there was some basis to the story and some exaggeration. The J-C toned down the story . A month later he had an amicable interview in the regional newspaper, J-C, where he was able to explain how the company was doing things better and the J-C congratulated him for his stance.

Andersen has shown a lack of wisdom and a presumptuous disregard  for the sanctity of the signature of his own board members without giving them time to check the facts> It was a stupid mistake to send a letter anyway.

The organization is financially troubled. It is disconnected from its members. One can only guess about staff morale by the number of vacant unfilled positions.

Change is afoot. Time for @Mr.Clean to dust off his resume :ph34r:

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On 12/5/2019 at 11:28 AM, winchfodder said:

Too true!

I don't recall hearing that any of my sailing friends have ever watched the World Sailing show.  So who does? Free to view on airline flights probably. Excellent target audience. Money well spent. 

I have flown on a lot of airplanes. I would be glad to watch the World sailing show but Ive never seen it. Perhaps it gets shown on Greyhound buses late at night?

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1 hour ago, IPLore said:

 

The organization is financially troubled. It is disconnected from its members. One can only guess about staff morale by the number of vacant unfilled positions.

Change is afoot. Time for @Mr.Clean to dust off his resume :ph34r:

There are a lot of people I'd like to see in that job, but in no possible universe am I one of them.

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On 3/4/2020 at 6:58 PM, winchfodder said:

WS operates from the UK, though I bet some clever British lawyers and accountants have set it up as some sort of offshore trust based in the Caribbean as all the worlds wealthy seem to operate that way. 

Altogether the way that the current WS President has been operating looks to have bought the sport into disrepute. The governing council need at the very least dump a Rule 69 on him. Hopefully putting an end to his aspirations of moving up to the IOC. But then again they have had members called out before for corruption with little affect. 

And what a shock that its these schmucks that ILCA leadership aligned with to destroy the Laser class.  What a grand collection of idiots.  And they wonder why I don't want to send my money to WS and ILCA.  The people that run and support these organizations are what is destroying the sport that was sailing (and is becoming air rowing).

If you want to support sailing, support your local club and community out-reach programs.

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On 10/17/2019 at 4:52 AM, shaggy said:

So, I assume it's legal to hit the mark with your body, just not the boat??  

Late answer… it's OK to hit the mark (body, boat, whatever) as long as you don't drag it. Good rule I reckon.

Hooking up the mark is it's own punishment.

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Just read the President's latest newsletter.  Funny no mention of forging the signatures of two of his VP's!

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14 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Just read the President's latest newsletter.  Funny no mention of forging the signatures of two of his VP's!

I wonder if TE has had a personal apology from the President for sending a forgery. 

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In his latest snooze fest TE says expect imminent news of good things from WS council. Does this mean that the President will be called out for forgery? Probably not!

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sport organizing bodies are going to be amongst the least of the world's concerns this summer.

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19 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

sport organizing bodies are going to be amongst the least of the world's concerns this summer.

You know shit's going down when Brady leaving the Patriots doesn't even make the news in Boston. 

 

DRC

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4 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

I am sure it'll get cancelled anyway. WS doesn't exactly strike me as a leader.

lol. the WS website is instructive in leadership.

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-19 at 12.52.15 AM.png

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9 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

 

lol. the WS website is instructive in leadership.

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-19 at 12.52.15 AM.png

Whoa - there is no one on the tiller!

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