Winston29

Do you tie your jib sheets together when shorthanded?

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I read a few posts, here and in other places, recommending this practice, but I have to say it didn't go so well for me this afternoon.  It wasn't a total failure, and I realize B) this was my first time solo B) , but I often wound up with the jib sheets tangled in the Barney Post, swivel-block, and the mainsheet falls.  

I tied them together in front of the Barney Post, not behind it.  Is this the correct routing?  Still I wound up with lines tangled all over the place.  At one point the tangle effected my ability to sheet out the main in a hurry, when the boat started to heel too much following a tack.

The issue I'm having is that the jib sheets cleat ahead of the BP, but I sit behind it, so it's inevitable that they get crossed and lie on and around the swivel-block and Barney Post after tacking.  I tried tossing the jib sheets ahead of the BP, but there's a lot going on in there and lines flying around, and I often overlooked the idea.  Also, throwing the lines forward tended to leave them more out of reach, reducing the effectiveness of tying them together.  

Unfortunately I was so preoccupied with my first time solo in the boat (Woo Hoooo!), that it never occurred to me to untie the jib sheets and try sailing that way.  Next time.  

I'm not suggesting I think the practice is wrong, just that, for me, it ended up complicating things while trying to remember all the other things I'd been taught in classes, here on SA, and by my sailing friends.  

Hopefully, if I tie individual stopper knots with a little extra tail behind the knots, and leave the jib sheets on the benches, I can solve this entanglement issue I'm experiencing.  Reaching them really isn't a problem, given I'm not tacking *exactly* the way I'm supposed to.  I kneel, facing forward, on the cockpit floor while tacking and sorting out the various lines and steering inputs, moving to the windward bench only after completing the maneuver.  

 

I have a question about Heaving To, but I'll post it here later instead of my usual practice of creating a separate thread for it.  :P

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So many questions, so little time...

How is the jib sheet attached to the sail

How long are the sheets currently? Is there any excess?

Which side of the Barney Post (whatever that is) do the sheets need to be so you can use the cleats easily?

 

Tieing the sheets together makes it easier to reach it after a tack, grab the windward sheet and you will always have the sheet you need... No need to duck to leeward to grab the sheet, less chance of a capsize

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I would never tie headsail sheets together. Perhaps on a tiny boat. But one is asking for disaster I would think on a larger boat, or heavy conditions. with loads above simple hand holding tension.

Why even consider it? The basic method is so easy.

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6 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

I would never tie headsail sheets together. Perhaps on a tiny boat. But one is asking for disaster I would think on a larger boat, or heavy conditions. with loads above simple hand holding tension.

Why even consider it? The basic method is so easy.

because as Rushman says - you may not be sailing a dinghy that has enough stability for you (or the crew) to sashay over to the leeward side to find the jib sheet.

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Winston

I have a suggestion. Go to a local club or sailing school and find someone that will spend a half day with you and give you a lesson. I would suggest 4 hours of decent instruction would be the equivalent of about 1000 posts/replies. The shit show with the main halyard/luff length/gooseneck would have been figured out by an experienced hand in about 2 minutes. This jib sheet thing? 20 seconds. Find a young keener and pay him $50 to show you how to rig and then go sailing for a while. Then you can post about all your successes!

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I tie them together at the clew... actually, starting at one end tied to the jib block, it goes through a small block tied to the clew, back through the jib block, across the cockpit and through the other jib block, up through another small block tied to the clew then back to the second jib block where that end is tied off. So each end is tied to an opposing jib block.

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Only once have I sailed with the jib sheets tied together, and that was so my Blind crew of the day could find the sheets.

Single handed the boat i mostly sailed, had a second set of jib jammers directed at the helm, when you tacked and released the jib, the ropes naturally dropped on the seat , you grabbed the one next to you and took it across as you went over..

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2 hours ago, El Boracho said:

I would never tie headsail sheets together. Perhaps on a tiny boat. 

This is dinghy anarchy. Tiny boats. On a dinghy jib sheets should always be tied together or continuous.

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Yes, I can't really imagine not having continuous jib sheets on a dinghy unless there were special circumstances.

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On my 14' catamaran, which I usually sail solo sloop rigged, I use a single continuous jib sheet. It's short (only marginally long enough to get the jib out for a run; cats reach faster downwind so running isn't a priority), and has no knots between the blocks so is less inclined to jam and tangle.

So as long as I can reach a jib block, I can reach my jib sheet. Don't need to scoot over to the lee hull to find a loose sheet.

Being a catamaran, she doesn't like to tack, and backing the jib helps immensely. So my tack process is to unclear the jib but hold it on tight, steer into the turn until the jib is backing, guide the jib to the other side (with the continuous jib sheet) while trying to keep wind flowing along it for some lift. Cleat the jib, wait for the main to cross and "pop" it's battens, then throw the tiller across and scoot over to the new windward hull just as it starts to lift (or later if I'm game for a roll-tack). Then correct the trim of both sails from my new sailing position.

I haven't soloed a monohull sloop for a long time, but my approach would be very similar... just with less backing and waiting, on a boat that actually wants to steer through the wind.

Short continuous jib sheet. Give it a try.

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To determine length for single continuous sheet...

With furled jib, tie sheet to clew, lead it back through block and cleat, across cockpit through other cleat then block and back to the jib clew. With jib furled the line should be long enough so the sheet will not be stretched tight between the cleats and make a trip hazard.

Fully furled is when you need the most sheet length UNLESS you will use a whisker pole downwind, you may need a couple extra feet to pole jib out square. If I know I'll be using a pole on jib instead of the spinnaker, I usually use 2 sheets then just to keep the  sheet length down.

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12 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

To determine length for single continuous sheet...

With furled jib, tie sheet to clew, lead it back through block and cleat, across cockpit through other cleat then block and back to the jib clew. With jib furled the line should be long enough so the sheet will not be stretched tight between the cleats and make a trip hazard.

Fully furled is when you need the most sheet length UNLESS you will use a whisker pole downwind, you may need a couple extra feet to pole jib out square. If I know I'll be using a pole on jib instead of the spinnaker, I usually use 2 sheets then just to keep the  sheet length down.

everything what he said. For most dinghys, run the jib sheets forward of the barney pole(mainsheet block) and use a very different color between jib and main sheets

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Yep, I always used a continuous jib sheet, although our training boats are not rigged that way.

Knotting the sheets together sounds like a guaranteed way to have the knot caught on something or under foot.

Don't under estimate the power of using different colored line. It makes -buying- the rigging more complicated but it simplifies everything else enormously. Even on simple boats ... and sloops don't get much more simple than the Oday Javelin... there are 8 lines of which 6 are likely to be jumbled together in the bottom of the cockpit when things get hectic. Grabbing THE JIB SHEET and knowing you've got the one you need is very good.

The other issue is that lines need to be longer than you'd think. The jib sheets on many dinghies are over twice the length of the boat, so as to have the reach to wing it out properly. But you don't want any extra.

FB- Doug

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9 hours ago, Winston29 said:

I read a few posts, here and in other places, recommending this practice, but I have to say it didn't go so well for me this afternoon.  It wasn't a total failure, and I realize B) this was my first time solo B) , but I often wound up with the jib sheets tangled in the Barney Post, swivel-block, and the mainsheet falls.  

You have a bunch of good recommendations in this thread

  • Join - or just hang out at - a sailing club. 99% of your questions will be answered and even better, you'll learn things you didn't know to ask.
  • On a first time solo, or on your second time solo, sail with main only. Most/all boats of this kind are still balanced and well behaved with main only, explicitly for learning and shorthanded sailing.
  • If you choose to sail with a jib - yes, tie them together or, even better, use a single line (double length). That's what most people do, it's really handy. Clearly different color, size, texture even. Folks in this forum generally don't sail your specific boat, so we don't know exactly how to run it for minimal snagging.
  • Join - or just hang out at - a sailing club. 99% of your questions will be answered and even better, you'll learn things you didn't know to ask; and you'll learn them before you need them, which will save you frustration, and will be safer out in the water.

 

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54 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

The jib sheets on many dinghies are over twice the length of the boat, so as to have the reach to wing it out properly. 

What would be an example of a dinghy class with jib sheets that long?

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11 minutes ago, dogwatch said:
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

The jib sheets on many dinghies are over twice the length of the boat, so as to have the reach to wing it out properly. 

What would be an example of a dinghy class with jib sheets that long?

420s and FJs are a good example to start with.

The 420 has a tiny jib and so it's sheets may only be a little less than twice LOA.

I found that having continuous sheets saves money because you need less length of rope total.

FB- Doug

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On trapeze boats we do the opposite and see a shackle at the mid point and the run the sheets through the blocks and then tie to the trap ring for quick access on the wire. 

But even with the extra length the are about 14' long so nowhere near twice the boat.

Most other dinghies tie the ends to the sail and run continuous across the cockpit.

Can still get sucked into the mainsheet block but less inclined to. 

When I singlehand my boat I blow the jib as I enter the tack cross over and get the boat going on the other board then slide forward and trim the jib. When singlehanding you should be sitting as far forward as the tiller will allow

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Sheet, Jib, CP-14.

Part #: J8014
$31.96
 
usa-flag.png
• Diameter: 3/8"
• Length: 38'
• Construction: Double braid continuous strand line without mill splices (see "Read More" below for the full story)
• Fiber: Dacron Polyester cover, w/ Polyester core
• Stretch: Very low stretch
• Color: White

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The above is from the manufacturer

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33 minutes ago, Locus said:

On trapeze boats we do the opposite and see a shackle at the mid point and the run the sheets through the blocks and then tie to the trap ring for quick access on the wire. 

But even with the extra length the are about 14' long so nowhere near twice the boat.

The jib sheet length would be the total length of rope required to build jib sheets, be they one piece or two. So for your 5-0 that would be 28'. And the Capri fairleads are way back, so more length required.  

505 ROPE LENGTHS

505 rope lengths and thicknesses. Order from Sailing Chandlery today and receive 10% off your first order.

Rope Quantity Length Thickness Our Recommendation
         
Jib Sheet 1 9m 6mm 6mm Gottifredi Maffioli Swiftcord
         

 

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As steam says, do not tie together. That knot will hang up somewhere. If you want to try this, use a continuous sheet. I don't do this on my 505. I have in the past used the sheet to trapeze wire trick but I don't like it on my current boat at all. So I have two separate sheets. I don't struggle with it but I'm not the leader of the fleet either.

My past dinghies did not have continuous rig either. But I do remember sailing that way some. I just can't remember what boat.

Spinnaker sheets are continuous though. That's key on a dinghy.

BTW I singehand a 505 and a (until recently) V15 and all sorts of other dinghies in the past.  I don't find that a problem. Sailing alone requires scooting aft to tack and back fwd after the tack to handle sheets and get weight in middle of length.

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16 hours ago, Winston29 said:

I read a few posts, here and in other places, recommending this practice, but I have to say it didn't go so well for me this afternoon.  It wasn't a total failure, and I realize B) this was my first time solo B) , but I often wound up with the jib sheets tangled in the Barney Post, swivel-block, and the mainsheet falls.  

I tied them together in front of the Barney Post, not behind it.  Is this the correct routing?  Still I wound up with lines tangled all over the place.  At one point the tangle effected my ability to sheet out the main in a hurry, when the boat started to heel too much following a tack.

The issue I'm having is that the jib sheets cleat ahead of the BP, but I sit behind it, so it's inevitable that they get crossed and lie on and around the swivel-block and Barney Post after tacking.  I tried tossing the jib sheets ahead of the BP, but there's a lot going on in there and lines flying around, and I often overlooked the idea.  Also, throwing the lines forward tended to leave them more out of reach, reducing the effectiveness of tying them together.  

Unfortunately I was so preoccupied with my first time solo in the boat (Woo Hoooo!), that it never occurred to me to untie the jib sheets and try sailing that way.  Next time.  

I'm not suggesting I think the practice is wrong, just that, for me, it ended up complicating things while trying to remember all the other things I'd been taught in classes, here on SA, and by my sailing friends.  

Hopefully, if I tie individual stopper knots with a little extra tail behind the knots, and leave the jib sheets on the benches, I can solve this entanglement issue I'm experiencing.  Reaching them really isn't a problem, given I'm not tacking *exactly* the way I'm supposed to.  I kneel, facing forward, on the cockpit floor while tacking and sorting out the various lines and steering inputs, moving to the windward bench only after completing the maneuver.  

 

I have a question about Heaving To, but I'll post it here later instead of my usual practice of creating a separate thread for it.  :P

I have followed all your posts (and there are many of them) and would really suggest you get some lessons and a friend to help you locally. You are making heavy weather of this sailing game - it really isnt as difficult as you are posting. Stop over-thinking it, and just get out there.

For dinghies, and solo sailing, Yes, continuous jib sheets are ideal. Tie the two ends of the sheets at the jib clew - typically feed each end throught the clew eye and put a stopper knot in. i.e trhu the clew eye. Stoppper knot. Feed thru all the blocks both sides, and remaining end back thru the clew eye and stopper knot. Then you have a continuous jib sheet with nothing to get tangled in, in the cockpit. Now, having said all that, if sailing solo, its always going to be a challenge to control 2 different ropes whilst pushing the stick thing about. Thats life. deal with it. Plan your manouevres, prepare your manoevres and then execute your manoevres. Give yourself time for everything, but accept shit willl happen and ropes will do things of their own accord you dont want them to. Thats sailing.

People on this forum have been very patient in my view with your posts, but please help yourself and get some local help and lessons. Just get on the water, play, and learn. And stop trying to make your boat into something it isnt. Take it for what it is - a fun boat 

And I mean the above in the politest way possible

 

 

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5 hours ago, sosoomii said:

OMG, this has turned into "how long is a piece of string?"

 

 

 

As most threads do on SA... 

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22 minutes ago, ttc546 said:

Tie the two ends of the sheets at the jib clew - typically feed each end throught the clew eye and put a stopper knot in. i.e trhu the clew eye. Stoppper knot. Feed thru all the blocks both sides, and remaining end back thru the clew eye and stopper knot. Then you have a continuous jib sheet with nothing to get tangled in, in the cockpit.

This is a mess. 

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20 minutes ago, bill4 said:

This is a mess. 

Why? 

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1 hour ago, fastyacht said:

As steam says, do not tie together. That knot will hang up somewhere. If you want to try this, use a continuous sheet. I don't do this on my 505. I have in the past used the sheet to trapeze wire trick but I don't like it on my current boat at all. So I have two separate sheets. I don't struggle with it but I'm not the leader of the fleet either.

My past dinghies did not have continuous rig either. But I do remember sailing that way some. I just can't remember what boat.

Spinnaker sheets are continuous though. That's key on a dinghy.

BTW I singehand a 505 and a (until recently) V15 and all sorts of other dinghies in the past.  I don't find that a problem. Sailing alone requires scooting aft to tack and back fwd after the tack to handle sheets and get weight in middle of length.

Current thinking on the 505 is separate spin sheets. Our fleet just cut and shortened all of ours. Similar on the jib sheets. We all shortened them a couple years ago due to getting tangled in everything. They are almost tight now when fully trimmed. Aids in tacking across the RAM and keeps from wrapping around the crews feet (somewhat) and aids with barberhauling. But beyond the scope of this. 

If OP wants to keep individual sheets maybe a takeup bungee or leader to keep them in reach and forward. Not familiar with the sheet leads on this boat. A couple of 505s went to floating leads and bungee them forward when slack so a similar ring with bungee to pull forward when slack might help. 

All this requires planning, but proper seating forward might alleviate all this.

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:
7 hours ago, sosoomii said:

OMG, this has turned into "how long is a piece of string?"

 

As most threads do on SA... 

I've been waiting for good recipes to turn up in this thread. It's almost dinner time

FB- Doug

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30 minutes ago, ttc546 said:

Why? 

Maybe it's the punctuation and grammar, but that is an awkward explanation (IMHO). And remember, as it stands, Winston has two separate jib sheets, so the only way he could have a continuous line is to tie two ends together.  However, let's pretend he buys a single piece of line to work with. How about:

1) set the mainsheet on the centerboard box.

2) run one end through one of the fairleads from inside the boat to outside, take it around the sidestay and tie it to the clew of the jib. 

3) Repeat on the other side with the other end of the line. 

Voila - continuous jib sheet.

Note: the grommet on the clew may not be big enough for both ends of the jib sheet to pass through, so tie a bowline with the first one that is big enough to fasten the second one to. Or, you can buy a large shackle or ring to fasten to the the clew and tie both ends on - there are lots of options that will work. 

However - if Winston goes with both of our suggestions that he get a lesson, he will be shown how to do it in person. But let's just thank God he didn't buy a 505...

 

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15 hours ago, dogwatch said:

This is dinghy anarchy. Tiny boats. On a dinghy jib sheets should always be tied together or continuous.

Ditto.

The only small dinghy I sailed without a continuous jib sheet or  jib sheets with the ends tied together was my Laser.

 

 

I never got tangled with Barney.....post or otherwise

657279-barney.jpg.0d55b5435c97e0bdf9f7043bf668799b.jpg

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3 minutes ago, IPLore said:

Ditto.

The only small dinghy I sailed without a continuous jib sheet or  jib sheets with the ends tied together was my Laser.

 

 

I never got tangled with Barney.....post or otherwise

657279-barney.jpg.0d55b5435c97e0bdf9f7043bf668799b.jpg

Hu, Why wouldn't you tie the sheets together on your Laser??  On mine, it was standard practice...  ;)

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1 minute ago, shaggy said:

Hu, Why wouldn't you tie the jib sheets together on your Laser??  On mine, it was standard practice...  ;)

It made things unnecessarily complicated.  :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, shaggy said:

Hu, Why wouldn't you tie the sheets together on your Laser??  On mine, it was standard practice...  ;)

Interestingly enough, Catalina uses that historical terminology in their catalog.

 

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-18/hull-and-deck/cockpit/barney-post-for-cp-18/

 

 i like it. Besides, I'd rathr have a taffrail than a "pushpit."

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4 hours ago, bill4 said:

...

However - if Winston goes with both of our suggestions that he get a lesson, he will be shown how to do it in person. But let's just thank God he didn't buy a 505...

 

 

There's still hope. Lotsa 5O5s out there, I think about getting one too.

Now, the next question I'm sure to be raised is, why not TWO continuous jib sheets? Better, right!!

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

There's still hope. Lotsa 5O5s out there, I think about getting one too.

Now, the next question I'm sure to be raised is, why not TWO continuous jib sheets? Better, right!!

FB- Doug

A parallel jib sheet continuum. Now that’s deep.

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On 10/13/2019 at 8:47 PM, Rushman said:

1) How is the jib sheet attached to the sail

2) How long are the sheets currently? Is there any excess?

3) Which side of the Barney Post (whatever that is) 

 

1] It's a single length of line, tied in the middle at the jib clew with a Cow Hitch.  

2] 36'

3] "Interestingly enough, Catalina uses that historical terminology in their catalog."

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-18/hull-and-deck/cockpit/barney-post-for-cp-18/     

 

I didn't realize those terms were out of date, but then I've alway been pretty old fashioned.  

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34 minutes ago, Winston29 said:

1] It's a single length of line, tied in the middle at the jib clew with a Cow Hitch.  

2] 36'

3] "Interestingly enough, Catalina uses that historical terminology in their catalog."

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-18/hull-and-deck/cockpit/barney-post-for-cp-18/     

 

I didn't realize those terms were out of date, but then I've alway been pretty old fashioned.  

Aha! If you want to try a continuous jib sheet, untie the cow hitch and try either 23 or 29 above.

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41 minutes ago, Winston29 said:

3] "Interestingly enough, Catalina uses that historical terminology in their catalog."

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-18/hull-and-deck/cockpit/barney-post-for-cp-18/     

 

I didn't realize those terms were out of date, but then I've alway been pretty old fashioned.  

It's not that they are out of date, it is that people haven't learned them:-)

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8 minutes ago, bill4 said:

Aha! If you want to try a continuous jib sheet, untie the cow hitch and try either 23 or 29 above.

I choose #29.  It was phrased in a much more friendly way.  :D

In response to #23.....  Bite me.  And I mean that in the politest way possible. ;)  I was under the impression that these forums were for Q&A and opinions, not just bragging rights and photos of "where I sailed my boat this weekend".  If I'm mistaken and this is not the case here on SA, then I apologize and I will start taking and posting more pictures of my boat.  

All my my past posts/threads were meant to taken lightly and were simply intended to garner opinions and advice.  It was never my intention to use the members here in leu of paid lessons.  

I like the idea of a single, continuous jib sheet, like post #11 suggests.  The only problem I see is that it may restrict my being able to "wing it out", as Steam Flyer mentions in post #13.  I haven't done it yet, but I want to try returning to the ramp, downwind, on just the jib, the way I've seen the fleet of 5.7's do.  They sheet their jib waaaay out and release it when they get to the dock.  

fullsizeoutput_b15.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Winston29 said:

1] It's a single length of line, tied in the middle at the jib clew with a Cow Hitch.  

2] 36'

3] "Interestingly enough, Catalina uses that historical terminology in their catalog."

https://www.catalinadirect.com/shop-by-boat/capri-18/hull-and-deck/cockpit/barney-post-for-cp-18/     

 

I didn't realize those terms were out of date, but then I've alway been pretty old fashioned.  

36'... So 17' per sheet?

That sounds like it is too long but I am not familiar with the boat

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1 hour ago, Rushman said:

That sounds like it is too long but I am not familiar with the boat

It does seem like a lot, especially when it's piled up on the cockpit floor, but that's what Catalina says is the correct length for the Capri 14.2.  

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42 minutes ago, Winston29 said:

It does seem like a lot, especially when it's piled up on the cockpit floor, but that's what Catalina says is the correct length for the Capri 14.2.  

Time to get the tape measure out and think about how you will be using the sheet.

My thoughts are 20-25' would be more than enough, with a continuous sheet tied at the clew you need less length.

As others have posted... Find someone at your club to help you 

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9 hours ago, Winston29 said:

I choose #29.  It was phrased in a much more friendly way.  :D

In response to #23.....  Bite me.  And I mean that in the politest way possible. ;)  I was under the impression that these forums were for Q&A and opinions, not just bragging rights and photos of "where I sailed my boat this weekend".  If I'm mistaken and this is not the case here on SA, then I apologize and I will start taking and posting more pictures of my boat.  

All my my past posts/threads were meant to taken lightly and were simply intended to garner opinions and advice.  It was never my intention to use the members here in leu of paid lessons.  

I like the idea of a single, continuous jib sheet, like post #11 suggests.  The only problem I see is that it may restrict my being able to "wing it out", as Steam Flyer mentions in post #13.  I haven't done it yet, but I want to try returning to the ramp, downwind, on just the jib, the way I've seen the fleet of 5.7's do.  They sheet their jib waaaay out and release it when they get to the dock.  

fullsizeoutput_b15.jpeg

If you go with a continuous sheet tied at the ends to the clew measuring what you need is actually really easy.

1. Light wind day >5k. Hoist the jib and tie the sheets to the clew. 

2. Point the boat upwind and trim the sheet where you would normally for upwind. The sheet should not have loops or bundles on the floor, but a single drape probably touching the floor.

3 Untie one knot and adjust to get the sheet to that point. 

4. Turn the boat downwind and let the sheet out till ifs a wing on position (or pole out of you have a whisker)  and check again the length. 

5. Set the sheet so that in the longest case you don't have loops on the floor 

Realistically if not using a pole it SHOULD be a similar length max ease vs. max trim. Pole adds to the downwind length usually. Of course this depends on the % overlap of the jib in the upwind trim. (I.e a 155 genoa needs more upwind lazy sheet than downwind where as a 100% jib is closer to equal)

So you now have a starting length. Sail the boat that way before you cut the sheet shorter (they are a bitch to lengthen LOL) sail the boat and see how you like it. Make further adjustments and sail it again, you will quickly zero in on what you like. 

the lengths from manufactures and general riggers are not always right, especially when taking single handing into account. 

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9 hours ago, Rushman said:

36'... So 17' per sheet?

That sounds like it is too long but I am not familiar with the boat

17 X 2 = 34 (North of the equator anyway...:P)

7 hours ago, Rushman said:

Time to get the tape measure out and think about how you will be using the sheet.

My thoughts are 20-25' would be more than enough, with a continuous sheet tied at the clew you need less length.

As others have posted... Find someone at your club to help you 

With a line drawing of the boat, a ruler, knowing the foot of the jib is 8' long, and based on a full wing on wing set, it is tough to see how you would need more than 25' for a continuous sheet. And that is generous.

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3 hours ago, bill4 said:

17 X 2 = 34 (North of the equator anyway...:P)

You are right... Based on the length of Winston's post he would need more than 1 foot for a stopper knot at each end

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19 hours ago, Winston29 said:

I choose #29.  It was phrased in a much more friendly way.  :D

In response to #23.....  Bite me.  And I mean that in the politest way possible. ;)  I was under the impression that these forums were for Q&A and opinions, not just bragging rights and photos of "where I sailed my boat this weekend".  If I'm mistaken and this is not the case here on SA, then I apologize and I will start taking and posting more pictures of my boat.  

All my my past posts/threads were meant to taken lightly and were simply intended to garner opinions and advice.  It was never my intention to use the members here in leu of paid lessons.  

I like the idea of a single, continuous jib sheet, like post #11 suggests.  The only problem I see is that it may restrict my being able to "wing it out", as Steam Flyer mentions in post #13.  I haven't done it yet, but I want to try returning to the ramp, downwind, on just the jib, the way I've seen the fleet of 5.7's do.  They sheet their jib waaaay out and release it when they get to the dock.  

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Wow, I am surprised they can sail the 5.70 with just the jib. That short fat boat must be extremely out of balance. And why release the jib sheet all the way out when it can be furled in an instant? When leaving and returning to the dock on 5.70s and U20s, we always do it with main only. Much more control and you can bail out if need be, like for some unseen swimmer or paddleboarder.

The 2-to-1 continuous sheet arrangement described in post #6 is how it is done on the 5.70. You may not need 2-to1 in which case your jib sheet (singular) can be alot shorter. Experiment with your existing sheet. Tie one end to the clew, back through your jib block, across the cockpit and through the other jib block, up to the clew again and tie it off with another knot.

If there is not enough purchase for easy adjustment, try the 2-to1 method. If 1-to-1 is good enough, shorten the line as necessary and check back so we can tell you how you can tie it with a single knot on the clew of your jib.

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Aha! You just reminded me. On the Star, we used a continuous sheet. But 2:1 of course. That was bothering me, trying to remember what boat I sailed a lot that had that. Funny how memory works.

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I raced a nearly identical boat to the one in the OP. I always replaced my jib sheets with 25' total length. This always gave me enough to leave a 2' tail behind the stopper knot. I  always ran separate and just threw the jib sheet on the seat after tacking. If you can't reach the jib sheet in a 14' boat, your hiking stick is too short. Trust me, single handing a 350 lb boat with 115 sq/ft of sail, you sometimes need to hike from the widest part of the beam as there are no trap wires. 

I agree with those above that said it's time to go sailing with someone that has single hand experience. Little things can be obvious to those of us who often single hand, yet never ever enter a new sailors mind. Sailing my Flying Scot single hand I noticed that sheet management is even easier when I have been trimmed for pointing on a windward leg. Why is it easier? It's because I don't have extra blocks to trim the slot. I have to use the leeward sheet to trim the slot and that had a side effect of making it smoother and faster on tack. If I hadn't crewed for an old timer in a DS race, I wouldn't have even thought about that.

The other thing is the little Capri doesn't have a kite, so learning how to wing the jib down wind makes all the difference in the world. 

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2 things that I can add to this post, f you capsize with the jib cleated it is great if you can grab the sheet at the weather, or upper fairlead while you are standing on the board, and work your way down the sheet so you can unclear the leeward sheet even if the cleat is underwater.

Secondly, I prefer tying the sheet to the jib clew with a clove hitch, that makes it impossible to hook or catch on anything such as shrouds or haliards on the mast, I tie the two ends together in the centre of the boat with a fisherman’s knot, this makes it easy to sort out any issues with sheets being improperly lead while rigging in a rush.

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Single handing In boats without jib furlers I've always tied the sheet ends together. Great advantage is that when landing on a lee shore or in wind over tide situation picking up a mooring you can unknot the sheets and let them fly completely out of the fairleads so letting the jib flap free.

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I went ahead and rigged a continuous jib sheet tonight.  Hopefully I'll get a chance to try it out tomorrow when there's a little more wind.  

There's still a fair amount of rope piled up on the cockpit floor when the jib is deployed, so I'll have to wait and see how it goes.  I ran it as short as I could, but long enough to "wing it out" when sailing downwind if I wanted.  

I put a mid-sized carabiner on the jib clew to make my life a little easier, but may switch to a pair of bowline knots, one tied to the other.  

Thanks again for the advice and tips!  

 

- W

 

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The clew grommet looks narrow enough for a stopper knot. Try tying one end of the sheet to the other using something like a sheep bend knot, but leave a foot or so of tail at one end. Take that end through the clew an tie a stopper knot (or bowline). Ditch the carabiner.

 

Or not.

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Sheets should run inside shrouds for better upwind sheeting angle. The shrouds are limiting how close to centerline your jib will trim. There is extra friction on each tack as the old sheet drags on the shroud the whole time jib comes across.

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20 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

Sheets should run inside shrouds for better upwind sheeting angle. There is extra friction on each tack as the old sheet drags on the shroud the whole time the jib comes across.

Catalina, North Sails, and every set-up article I've ever read, says to run the jib sheets outside of the shrouds...  That being said, I've always though that way of routing them created a lot of friction on the sheets as they rub against the shroud cables......... and not just when tacking.  When you trim the active sheet, there's a lot of pressure on the lines and they rub on the cables constantly.  Just today I was thinking of what I could use to cover a little more of the shrouds with, to protect the sheets.  Maybe a short length of PVC pipe.  

I'll look into re-routing the jib sheets, but I've never seen them run that way.  

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It may be that the shroud wire interferes with the jib somewhere if you sheet inside the shrouds. Worth trying the other way ashore. If you do a lot of reaching/running, you may want it outside anyway.

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1 hour ago, Dex Sawash said:

It may be that the shroud wire interferes with the jib somewhere if you sheet inside the shrouds. Worth trying the other way ashore. If you do a lot of reaching/running, you may want it outside anyway.

Looks like the shrouds are on the inboard wall of the cockpit, not much to be gained by running the sheets inside IMHO

But many (most IMHO) small sloops run the sheets inside.

FB- Doug

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4 hours ago, Winston29 said:

Catalina, North Sails, and every set-up article I've ever read, says to run the jib sheets outside of the shrouds...  That being said, I've always though that way of routing them created a lot of friction on the sheets as they rub against the shroud cables......... and not just when tacking.  When you trim the active sheet, there's a lot of pressure on the lines and they rub on the cables constantly.  Just today I was thinking of what I could use to cover a little more of the shrouds with, to protect the sheets.  Maybe a short length of PVC pipe.  

I'll look into re-routing the jib sheets, but I've never seen them run that way.  

Here is another link that might be of value. Watch the third video at the end of the article. Not the most accomplished sailors, but it is pretty clear running the sheets inboard won't work for the 14.2. Also - in watching the video I am trying to see how your sheets could be rubbing on the shrouds. The jib overlaps the shrouds, so it (the jib) should hit the shroud before the jib sheet. And off the wind, of course, the jib sheet is nowhere near the shroud. None of the articles, videos, photos or tuning guides even mention this possibility. You have me stumped again. 

 https://whichsailboat.com/2015/07/22/catalina-14-2/

And in this photo from one of your earlier posts of a different name, the "active sheet" is no where near the shroud. 

 

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Edited by bill4
Added photo

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18 minutes ago, bill4 said:

. Also - in watching the video I am trying to see how your sheets could be rubbing on the shrouds. The 

The lazy sheet when tacking has to be dragged around the new  windward wire at an increasingly acute angle. To a smaller extent, the new sheet as you trim when jib hasn't fully blown through to fill.

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5 minutes ago, Dex Sawash said:

The lazy sheet when tacking has to be dragged around the new  windward wire at an increasingly acute angle. To a smaller extent, the new sheet as you trim when jib hasn't fully blown through to fill.

Ya I get that, but Winnie mentioned the “active” sheet which I assume is the leeward sheet. And I doubt he is that quick on trimming the jib on the new side. Maybe the answer is to ensure the “old” sheet is released with plenty of slack and the jib is allowed to blow through before trimming hard. 

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5 hours ago, bill4 said:

 in watching the video I am trying to see how your sheets could be rubbing on the shrouds. The jib overlaps the shrouds, so it (the jib) should hit the shroud before the jib sheet. And off the wind, of course, the jib sheet is nowhere near the shroud. None of the articles, videos, photos or tuning guides even mention this possibility. You have me stumped again. 

And in this photo from one of your earlier posts of a different name, the "active sheet" is no where near the shroud. 

You're right, I don't know what I was thinking.  They don't rub against the shrouds.  I just noticed they were rubbing yesterday while I was adjusting things, and forgot to take into account what effect the wind would have on sail shape and location.  

Running the sheet on the inside of the shrouds would likely cause problems in both shape and rubbing.  

 

I can be remarkably thick sometimes, seeing only what I think I'm seeing.  Yesterday while fitting new reefing hardware, I noticed that the luff cringle was at the same height as the intermediate cringle just behind it, and immideately thought something was wrong because I wouldn't be able to tension the luff if the luff cringle was resting on the boom when the sail was reefed.  

Only this morning while writing this, did I realize I would use the main halyard to adjust the luff tension.  (smacking head on table right now).  Ugh. 

 

 

 

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I have sailed a 505, M-16 and a Flying Dutchnan, etc singlehandedly and use a continuous job

sheet with no real problem.

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I've rigged it with a continuous sheet, but there hasn't been any damn wind in weeks!  At least not when I've had a day off.  

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12 hours ago, Winston29 said:

I've rigged it with a continuous sheet, but there hasn't been any damn wind in weeks!  At least not when I've had a day off.  

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600554.jpg

 

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On 10/14/2019 at 10:47 AM, JimC said:

Yes, I can't really imagine not having continuous jib sheets on a dinghy unless there were special circumstances.

I have a continuous jib sheet on my Int canoe with a self tacking track - works great

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I considered looking into a self tacking jib for my Capri, but feared I’d be laughed out of the marina if I did. :P

It sure would make my life a lot easier (& less painful), sailing shorthanded, if I didn’t have to leap all over the boat every time I tacked.  

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44 minutes ago, Winston29 said:

I considered looking into a self tacking jib for my Capri, but feared I’d be laughed out of the marina if I did. :P

It sure would make my life a lot easier (& less painful), sailing shorthanded, if I didn’t have to leap all over the boat every time I tacked.  

Don't call it a self tacking jib,  call it a blade jib,  they're in fashion now:D

I sail on rivers mostly, jibs up to 100% have always been popular, even when the class permits more. You often gain more due to ease of handling through the many tacks.. 

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