bigrpowr

Vendee Globe 2020

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Pip cracks me up.   Sitting back, tiller in hand, still beaming she’s so amped to be out sailing  by herself.   

Awesome post, doesn't mention anything about some bloke who usually breaks his boat and sometimes doesn't even finish let alone win but gets more publicity than all the other racers put together.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Virgulino Ferreira said:

with rafts capable of tipping the 40 nudes

 

the only way to see 40 nudes in the middle of the Atlantic is when you haven't slept for 2 days

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go. Weather routing for Dutreux as current nr 1 and Tripon as most western boat.

Input

  • GFS wind
  • FNMOC waves
  • NOAA cyclone overlay with Theta projected
  • Imoca 60 polars

Output:

  • Both projected weather tracks have red in them, indicating rough sailing. As both routes have 40 kts steady winds in them, that is not a surprise.
  • After the front, some needed easy conditions are projected for both routes (green track).
  • The western boat (Tripon) would be quicker at the Azores than Dutreux.
  • Catching the top left quadrant of Theta could make you king 

image.thumb.png.bf4cc1c03cd2470894b2ffb0d0fea315.png

theta 10-11-20.png

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Thanks for posting!  Incredible.  I don't know what I am more amazed with.  The fact that he managed to eat a good bit with all of that slamming, or the fact that he didn't spill a drop of his meal.  Whatever he had in that bowl must have been thick (but actually looked pretty tasty).  

 shepherd's pie

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, XTR said:

What do the routing wizards think, the northern boats punch through the front, start to make South toward the Canaries and then catch the back side of the TD? Adds a lot of miles west but my simpleton guesses looks like it keeps them in the wind and at worst reaching and mostly to the stern where they like it.

 

I really enjoy the armchair routing guessing. 

Three routings with Omia, Apivia and Boss.  Omia is at 110% of the last gen Imoca polars.  Apivia and Boss at 135%.  Complete random guesstimations of course and still being tweaked for TWA. Completely random finish line after 63 hours of racing.

Note:  Theta is going to have a big influence on routing in 20 hours or so.

Vendee20.JPG

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Herman said:

Here we go. Weather routing for Dutreux as current nr 1 and Tripon as most western boat.

Input

  • GFS wind
  • FNMOC waves
  • NOAA cyclone overlay with Theta projected
  • Imoca 60 polars

Output:

  • Both projected weather tracks have red in them, indicating rough sailing. As both routes have 40 kts steady winds in them, that is not a surprise.
  • After the front, some needed easy conditions are projected for both routes (green track).
  • The western boat (Tripon) would be quicker at the Azores than Dutreux.
  • Catching the top left quadrant of Theta could make you king 

image.thumb.png.bf4cc1c03cd2470894b2ffb0d0fea315.png

Charal Apivia and PRB are in best position,
It's another itteration.

The top left quadrant of Theta low pressure is far away and it's moving

No ORc 2 racing this year or did you manage to escape?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having invested in the west, I'm hoping see some speed benchmarks from l'occitane and linked out, provided they stay in one piece. And how about prb? Hanging with the big dogs.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ague said:

It wont be long until somone start callin that guy "Alex Thomson the caveman"!

:wacko:

I expect AT to go completely nuts in his dungeon before the Cap of Good Hope...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Milli said:

I expect AT to go completely nuts in his dungeon before the Cap of Good Hope...

He might recover, and it's part of the sport.
And if not, who and how are you going to pull him out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Varan said:

Having invested in the west, I'm hoping see some speed benchmarks from l'occitane and linked out, provided they stay in one piece. And how about prb? Hanging with the big dogs.

watched the onboard video of Boris Herrman, in the video he said he could go 25- 27 knots in these conditions but chose to slow down to 15.5 knots in order to not break the boat.  Guess we won't see any speed records any time soon ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, minca3 said:

the only way to see 40 nudes in the middle of the Atlantic is when you haven't slept for 2 days

File:JEAN LOUIS THÉODORE GÉRICAULT - La Balsa de la Medusa (Museo del Louvre, 1818-19).jpg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

still being tweaked for TWA

True that. 

On the Bar-karate podcast, Nick Bice got Andrew Cape  talking (about 27 minute mark) about TWAs for the foilers. 90-110 is the worst; but after that foil designs will probably show major variation for each 5º. 

So, Cape confirms: "still being tweaked" ;) 

(also, expecting a windier Souther Ocean this cycle, and that the conventional race strategy of win it in the Atlantic, then cover in the SO is reversed for the foilers, since in the SO is where the foilers will catch up)

 

edit: use Orma polars? :P

Quote

The new boats are very fast upwind from 55 to 60 degrees TWA up to 130 TWA much faster than before and really similar speeds and angles to the ORMA 60 multihulls we had 12 or 15 years ago

from Christian Dumard

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, stief said:

True that. 

On the Bar-karate podcast, Nick Bice got Andrew Cape  talking (about 27 minute mark) about TWAs for the foilers. 90-110 is the worst; but after that foil designs will probably show major variation for each 5º. 

So, Cape confirms: "still being tweaked" ;) 

(also, expecting a windier Souther Ocean this cycle, and that the conventional race strategy of win it in the Atlantic, then cover in the SO is reversed for the foilers, since in the SO is where the foilers will catch up)

Yes I found that interesting, he put the race 100% to speed of the foiling boats in the southern ocean and was very, very high on the capability of HB. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something must be wrong on Charal - looks like he's reversing course... another entanglement? 

Apivia, LinkedOut, Arkea, PRB, Hugo Boss and Maliza gonna put in serious miles on the rest. BP still hanging on.

 

Edit - ah nevermind it was a glitch in the matrix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

btw, with pre-race routing from Cape for Alex, and (IIRC), Marcel Trieste for Charal, Christian Dumard for Thomas Ruyant and Armel Tripon, is Vilas helping too?

Big names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, minca3 said:

Why are Charal, PRB and Initiative heading directly West and not WSW? Apivia even went North a bit ...

Look at the wind angle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's going to be interesting to see how far west they go to get behind the storm.  I seem to remember last time someone sailed through the Azores getting south.  Going to be  sketchy for the  next few days. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Look at the wind angle. 

yeah, but this is also true for Arkea, Malizia and HB. But they are heading WSW 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah. Rankings downloads are back up. They were broken yesterday. Maybe the note I sent actually worked? (yeah, right. teams probably brought it to the website's attention)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 minutes ago, minca3 said:

yeah, but this is also true for Arkea, Malizia and HB. But they are heading WSW 

Those boats are further north and got the angle to spare - no one wants to sail right into the storm system. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

Yes I found that interesting, he put the race 100% to speed of the foiling boats in the southern ocean and was very, very high on the capability of HB. 

Fully expecting the newer foiling boats to hook onto a large system, find happy winds between 15-20 knots and flat seas behind it and just put in 600+ days for a week and blow the race right up.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Virgulino Ferreira said:

 

Brilliant!

And a little ominous, as they will sail over the sunken Méduse in a few days!

these were the only forty nudes i could find on a raft :-).  Here's to them all making it through the next couple of weather systems... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2020 at 3:06 AM, stinky said:

easy enough to block the skippers access to the website, that way the rest of us could obsess over the race to our hearts content.

Are you going to block every other form of communication as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2020 at 3:23 AM, Miffy said:

And the class is skipper led - it isn’t some suits sitting in a control room deciding to make up rules for the benefit of media. 

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Up to 14 boats in a line from the SE up to the NW in what I would call the leading pack atm.

As to all the whining about the update times for boat positions, I personally would like updates every 2 hours, does it really matter if the skippers get the same? After all everyone will be getting the same updates.

I'm also really liking the fact that so far there hasn't been any real breakaways in the fleet. I hope there is some real wind in the next day or two so we can see just how fast the boats can go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Fully expecting the newer foiling boats to hook onto a large system, find happy winds between 15-20 knots and flat seas behind it and just put in 600+ days for a week and blow the race right up.

Corum would do that. Interesting that it turned south with lighter boats. Well Corum don't want breakages. Still fast as lighter boats and as fast as Charal in other wind angles it'll be interesting to see in the 40s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Miffy said:

If there’s to be a petition the tone needs to be right and not the whining re “my exp sucks/France is weird how dare they have schedules that match their production hours”

 

1. 2020 is a year where we need solidarity in ever changing unstable environment 

2. Vendee Globe highlights the best of humanity conquering difficult tasks in a competition that is also about solidarity and community amongst competitors. 

3. It brings so much hope and joy and French culture to the outside world. 

4. Then you insert the ask. 

 I get your points, but I think the petition should  be very factual, and the final decision handed over to the skippers, that is based on :

  • A seven hours hole is ridiculous (with clear translations to various time zones)
  • Decision should be taken by the skippers and their sponsors, basically  between 2, 3, or 4 hours

And that needs to be done in this edition

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be clear--Does the VG OA have any say in the sked times?

(Race DirectorJacques Caraës will be on the English Live tomorrow. Andi Robertson is asking for questions to be posted.Figured a question about the skeds would be legit)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2020 at 1:09 PM, Potter said:

Sam

She's closer to being French these days.;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forgot about that. Currently projected to be 3 days off the pace.

Quote

Nothing comes easily on the Vendée Globe and after breaking across a ridge of high pressure the next big question for this group especially will be dealing with Theta, a tropical storm which crosses their path between Thursday and Friday (13th!). Routings today show a possible timing which would allow these quickest boats to pass the west side of it in the NW’ly wind but this system is evolving rapidly and being caught in its path is worth avoiding.

After that the tradewinds are still not established and current timings to the equator are some three days behind the record of 9 days 7 hours set by Alex Thomson who led the 2016 race across into the south Atlantic.

 https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/20161/wild-west-or-safer-south

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

to me by the videos looks like AT could have covid. he should be wearing a mask at all times. latest research suggests carbon surfaces are very prone to keeping theses dangerous virus alive for years even inside the water. 

  • Downvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He who shall not be named made the effort to put out public relations content. Don't hate me for posting.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mad said:

Are you going to block every other form of communication as well?

no, you just trust the integrity of those involved. If anyone cared enough, they could buy commercially available near realtime positioning data. At some point, you just have to trust the people involved to do the right thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Miffy said:

He who shall not be named made the effort to put out public relations content. Don't hate me for posting.

His expression at 13:23 when he leans forward and says "I love this" is almost as good as his "staaaarboard" from last time

Quote

You know there's a few, probably a few days, takes me a while to get into this, and then I'm, like . . .

I love this. You know, it's great fun.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, stief said:

His expression at 13:23 when he leans forward and says "I love this" is almost as good as his "staaaarboard" from last time

 

Yep, absolutely. 

 

He always seems to be having such a good time early in the race. Seems stressed out this time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, james_007_bond said:

I just don't get why Alex is not sleeping. All the other skippers are saying they used the calm period to sleep a bit, some of them even feeling well rested. In 10knts of wind, instead of doing a video he should sleep 20 minutes at last to get ready for the front he is going to get into. 

 

4 hours ago, minca3 said:

competitiveness. he mentioned that HB is not well suited to these conditions and he tries to make up for it by constantly trimming squeezing out every drop of performance. whether that is a wise decision mid to long term remains to be seen 

Last time he overslept he parked the boat on an island. Do we know if he's got a juicier shock watch this time? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mad said:

She's closer to being French these days.;)

This is her husband, Romain Attanasio on a non foiler.Pure-Best Western roughly 100 nM appart
She is behind the big guns and he is on a non foiler.
400532079_vendee1011.PNG.d6171ee01bf1ac39e6c0d63a321591c2.PNG
I am curious how you react to this.
SA was the gateway to professional sailing in the way that would suit everyone.
Great looking woman BTW.
630332135_SamDavies.thumb.jpg.73ca1b080d139c389603f6cf60a67399.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fabrice Amedeo apparently leaving Les Sables at 22:15 French time.

Here's a report: https://fabriceamedeo.com/fr/vendee-globe-nouveau-depart-prevu-a-22h15-pour-fabrice-amedeo/

“Fair Winds and Following Seas”  to him

Nice detail: The teams of Charal, Banque Populaire, DMG Mori, Arnaud Boissières,, Jean Le Cam and Romain Attanasio helped with the repairs/provided spare parts

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, stief said:

Ah. Rankings downloads are back up. They were broken yesterday. Maybe the note I sent actually worked? (yeah, right. teams probably brought it to the website's attention)

Thanks for that. I use the spreadsheet to convert the fleet boat positions for OpenCPN to gpx.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Three routings with Omia, Apivia and Boss.  Omia is at 110% of the last gen Imoca polars.  Apivia and Boss at 135%. 

Good idea to up certain polars for high performing boats. Are the newer boats a third quicker than the 2016 versions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Herman said:

Good idea to up certain polars for high performing boats. Are the newer boats a third quicker than the 2016 versions?

Maybe on some points of sail, 2-3kts or possibly more has been mentioned. I recall someone generating polars for the 2016 foilers and posting those in that Vendee thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You called it

22 minutes ago, minca3 said:

Nice detail

Glad to hear the mast didn't need to be pulled

Quote

We therefore had to find a spare hook (part which allows the sails to be hung at the top of the mast) loaned by the Banque Populaire team. Then clean the damaged area at the top of the mast: "We started by opening this crack to make a natural halyard outlet larger than before but without the carbon chips to avoid the risk of the halyard getting stuck in it," explains Sébastien Stéphant, technical director. “To secure this area, we made a small carbon plate that we glued around the opening to make a security band. " It is Simon Chevallier, expert composite of the team that is responsible for work on the area and the patch.“The mast builder validated the solution to make a sort of bandage. It is a lot of work because it takes five coats, the drying times of stratum and glue. The part is 5 millimeters thick at the thickest part. We started from the architects' plans and used a spare pole from the Charal team to cast it on the ground rather than at the top of the pole. We finished it last night and baked it all night, then glued it this morning. " 

Sébastien Stéphant in turn climbed to the top of the mast to heat it up in order to speed up the drying time and allow the boat to resume sea this evening. “The new hook was delivered late yesterday afternoon. Everything has been installed, verified and working, ”he adds.

(gtrans )

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Schakel said:

And she is on a foiler Imoca and her fiancee isn't?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Davies_(sailor)

 

It takes a lot of effort to raise funds for two top-level foiling IMOCA campaigns, so its no surprise only one of the couple has a higher level boat. I say higher level as AT mentioned in an interview that Sam could win if she had a boat like his or Charal etc. There is still a good chance she will podium with a bit of luck.

What I am most surprised about is both parents deciding to do this race at the same time. That certainly sounded like an emotional decision; I for one am rooting for both to safely make it around the planet and back home in one piece!!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like Jeremie required 2h20 for that turn. Good news is that he is up to speed again. Chasing down Sam Davies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, minca3 said:

ok, so charal did have a problem

Are you seeing a news release?

Escoffier has blown past him and davies passed pretty close to leward so something is up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, dolphinmaster said:

Samantha is steaming along!!!

Agreed. Sams doing an awesome job. Fingers crossed for the next 24hrs.....good video here.

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, samc99us said:

Maybe on some points of sail, 2-3kts or possibly more has been mentioned. I recall someone generating polars for the 2016 foilers and posting those in that Vendee thread.

Thanks for that info. The Imoca 2016 polars are available and I use these, but am looking for the newest generation foilers. Upping the 2016 polars as @Hitchhiker posted upthread with a certain percentage is also possible, but hard to estimate to what level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Herman Noticed some people are getting "the post reports of the race, on Adrena" (allowed him to confirm that Charal did not infringe the TSS). Figure 'les  posrepreports' are way better than the spreadsheets,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This just in from the New York Times:

Quote

This Couple Is Sailing Around the World — Against Each Other

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/sports/sailing/sailing-vendee-globe-yachts.html

Sam Davies and Romain Attanasio have long supported each other in yacht races. Now, they are both in the Vendée Globe, a four-month race around the world.

By Chris Museler - Nov. 10, 2020, 10:54 a.m. ET

 

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arnaud Boissières had to climb his mast to fix his staysail hook problem. it is now fixed and he is back 100%.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would someone mind giving a layman weather synopsis/explanation for a weather novice or provide some recommended reading material?

I'm trying to understand what this trough they're trying to cross physically is and what crossing it would be like on the water. General info to help sharpen some weather understanding is also highly appreciated :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, climenuts said:

Would someone mind giving a layman weather synopsis/explanation for a weather novice or provide some recommended reading material?

I'm trying to understand what this trough they're trying to cross physically is and what crossing it would be like on the water. General info to help sharpen some weather understanding is also highly appreciated :) 

No different from what we are experiencing in the midwest today as the current front comes through. Strong warm winds from the S and SW today (I was out watching my buddies kitesurfing while nursing my injured shoulder), then later afternoon the front will pass and the wind will switch to W. For the sailors that means big quartering seas and big S wind tonight on the Atlantic as they sail directly west towards the front, crashing along on port tack, then as they cross the advancing front they can tack onto starboard and cruise south in moderate breeze with moderating seas, although I imagine initially the seas will be head on.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, ivansh said:

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/statistics

So are the "24 hrs" and "from start" sections here confused? I'm guessing the left is for the last 24 hours?

Spreadsheet shows Alex did 250.7 nm in the last 24 hrs, so that matches the 'left column'. The column next to it is a conversion, 464.3 KM.

The 'from start' section is for the best 24 hr record since the start

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, climenuts said:

Would someone mind giving a layman weather synopsis/explanation for a weather novice or provide some recommended reading material?

I'm trying to understand what this trough they're trying to cross physically is and what crossing it would be like on the water. General info to help sharpen some weather understanding is also highly appreciated :) 

High pressure warm air is displaced (pushed upwards) by cooler moist, low pressure air. A trough usually forms from a low pressure system and extends out into a long band rather than the normal circular formation of a low pressure system. The effect is much more wind velocity and consequently rougher sea states. The wind can also change general direction.

The attached screen grab gives you an excellent representation of this effect.

Screen Shot 2020-11-11 at 10.56.22 AM.png

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Climenuts?  I feel dirty typing that....

Anyway, read the “Developing” section on the Wiki. I’d add that from a sailors perspective that if you think about the wave trains generated by the Southerly being overrun by the Westerly, the seastate in the crosschop sucks. Also, super gusty, variable in the change. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We should all be clear that we have seen basically nothing about the potential of the boats for whole of the race around.  None of the "fast" boats are optimized for the conditions they are seeing now and they will rarely if ever see these type of conditions again in the race.  Happens every 4 years, that they get the stink knocked out of them in the first few days, then as they approach the equator we actually see who has the wheels to win this race.  Until then, we are seeing who the great sailors are (many of them), but not much else.  We can see that many of the boats are really holding back right now as their only goal is to get through the next day or so in one piece.  Then they will resume "racing".  

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Schakel said:

No ORc 2 racing this year or did you manage to escape?

No ORC-racing in The Netherlands this covid-season..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Arnaud Boissières had to climb his mast to fix his staysail hook problem. it is now fixed and he is back 100%.

 

More details on the French version: he climbed to the mast to "unlatch" (my interpretation) the hook of the small genaker, and then the sail dropped... and fell in the water and got tangled up on the outrigger. So he had to get down quickly and climb to the end of the outrigger this time, to get to the sail and retrieve it... "It was a day with a balance/equilibrium theme" as said Arnaud...

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, stief said:

@Herman Noticed some people are getting "the post reports of the race, on Adrena" (allowed him to confirm that Charal did not infringe the TSS). Figure 'les  posrepreports' are way better than the spreadsheets,

 

Good find! That only leaves me with the investment of acquiring Adrena :rolleyes:  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, stief said:

Spreadsheet shows Alex did 250.7 nm in the last 24 hrs, so that matches the 'left column'. The column next to it is a conversion, 464.3 KM.

The 'from start' section is for the best 24 hr record since the start

Watch out with the spreadsheets, the timestamps for the positions do sometimes vary.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Herman said:

Good find! That only leaves me with the investment of acquiring Adrena :rolleyes:  

And the permission to use those reports . . .which I doubt would be easy to get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chris UK said:

Agreed. Sams doing an awesome job. Fingers crossed for the next 24hrs.....good video here.

Indeed. Brings back great memories. Hadn't heard her reflect how she found a new gear (going to the rescue)

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, climenuts said:

Would someone mind giving a layman weather synopsis/explanation for a weather novice or provide some recommended reading material?

I'm trying to understand what this trough they're trying to cross physically is and what crossing it would be like on the water. General info to help sharpen some weather understanding is also highly appreciated :) 

There are already some good replies to this above, technical and references etc. but I don't think anyone has answered the "what is it like crossing one on the water?" bit.

From my experience a few times, anything from "a bit rough" to "really horrible". When really horrible you can have pouring rain, wind increasing at an ever increasing pace until you wonder if it is possible for it to get any stronger, and it does. and the waves get huge and white. Then suddenly the wind can completely disappear and the sails go slack whilst the waves are bouncing the boat all over the place with the sails and boom banging about with no wind to hold them steady, threatening to break things and the sail, then suddenly the wind can come back from a totally different direction and at huge speed, so you don't know what tack to try and settle the boat, which can be completely stopped without steerage way at the time, onto, and you can also get hailstorms and sunshine at the same time. The big waves from different directions crash into each other so you can't really sense what direction they are coming from. After a short while, minutes to say half an hour, the wind usually settles down from a completely new direction and with reduced strength but it will still noy have a settled direction and may still have very strong gusts. Things then get better. It will be colder but the horrible confused state will gradually improve and the waves gradually settle down with a consistent new direction and a longer distance from peak to peak even though they can stay big for a long while. Sailing upwind into and through a strong cold front is not pleasant (at least not for me!) , but sailing across the wind in the conditions after I know I am through it are usually very good fun, with sunshine, white clouds with squalls under them, and fast sailing..

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Herman said:

Good idea to up certain polars for high performing boats. Are the newer boats a third quicker than the 2016 versions?

Can’t be sure at the moment. I’ve been playing with percentages to try and closely match as best as possible. But, there is also a spread across TWA where the percentage can make a drastic shift.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, staysail said:

There are already some good replies to this above, technical and references etc. but I don't think anyone has answered the "what is it like crossing one on the water?" bit.

From my experience a few times, anything from "a bit rough" to "really horrible". When really horrible you can have pouring rain, wind increasing at an ever increasing pace until you wonder if it is possible for it to get any stronger, and it does. and the waves get huge and white. Then suddenly the wind can completely disappear and the sails go slack whilst the waves are bouncing the boat all over the place with the sails and boom banging about with no wind to hold them steady, threatening to break things and the sail, then suddenly the wind can come back from a totally different direction and at huge speed, so you don't know what tack to try and settle the boat, which can be completely stopped without steerage way at the time, onto, and you can also get hailstorms and sunshine at the same time. The big waves from different directions crash into each other so you can't really sense what direction they are coming from. After a short while, minutes to say half an hour, the wind usually settles down from a completely new direction and with reduced strength but it will still noy have a settled direction and may still have very strong gusts. Things then get better. It will be colder but the horrible confused state will gradually improve and the waves gradually settle down with a consistent new direction and a longer distance from peak to peak even though they can stay big for a long while. Sailing upwind into and through a strong cold front is not pleasant (at least not for me!) , but sailing across the wind in the conditions after I know I am through it are usually very good fun, with sunshine, white clouds with squalls under them, and fast sailing..

and of course they're going to be doing it all at midnight on their own

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, staysail said:

There are already some good replies to this above, technical and references etc. but I don't think anyone has answered the "what is it like crossing one on the water?" bit.

From my experience a few times, anything from "a bit rough" to "really horrible". When really horrible you can have pouring rain, wind increasing at an ever increasing pace until you wonder if it is possible for it to get any stronger, and it does. and the waves get huge and white. Then suddenly the wind can completely disappear and the sails go slack whilst the waves are bouncing the boat all over the place with the sails and boom banging about with no wind to hold them steady, threatening to break things and the sail, then suddenly the wind can come back from a totally different direction and at huge speed, so you don't know what tack to try and settle the boat, which can be completely stopped without steerage way at the time, onto, and you can also get hailstorms and sunshine at the same time. The big waves from different directions crash into each other so you can't really sense what direction they are coming from. After a short while, minutes to say half an hour, the wind usually settles down from a completely new direction and with reduced strength but it will still noy have a settled direction and may still have very strong gusts. Things then get better. It will be colder but the horrible confused state will gradually improve and the waves gradually settle down with a consistent new direction and a longer distance from peak to peak even though they can stay big for a long while. Sailing upwind into and through a strong cold front is not pleasant (at least not for me!) , but sailing across the wind in the conditions after I know I am through it are usually very good fun, with sunshine, white clouds with squalls under them, and fast sailing..

To add my personal experience into this - during the Round Ireland race 2018 we had a front roll through overnight and it went like this. Boat was a J109.

Well, more than one over a few days but this was the most memorable.

 

Night pretty calm, 10 knots breeze running under A2. I go down for an hour's kip. 

I wake up to freezing cold, the boat is moving much, much faster and the trimmers are on deck calling out speeds, 12, 13, 14 knots. 

Wind quickly builds to 30 knots+, we go off surfing up to 19 knots at times. 

Go on deck to a very different scene to when I went below. 

This sticks around for 40 mins or so. 

 

Then breeze shuts off entirely, boat is left spinning on the currents, bobbing on the waves with severe rain for an hour until breeze fills in. 

When it does fill in, it comes back at a nice leisurely 15 knots from a totally different direction and we're reaching on the opposite gybe. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After it all settles down and you think you’re gonna be okay is when the rogue waves show up. The choppier short period waves organize into lower frequency bigger stuff and the tail of statistical distribution shows up. You get to experience that one in 10,000 wave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone have a better system than checking the average wind speed on Alex's Hub to work out when they get to the trough?  Got to love that what could turn out to be one of the most significant periods in the race is going to happen during the "black out"  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, stief said:

Spreadsheet shows Alex did 250.7 nm in the last 24 hrs, so that matches the 'left column'. The column next to it is a conversion, 464.3 KM.

The 'from start' section is for the best 24 hr record since the start

yes great to see him finally record a decent 24 hour run. This should give him confidence in the boats ability. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Does anyone have a better system than checking the average wind speed on Alex's Hub to work out when they get to the trough?  Got to love that what could turn out to be one of the most significant periods in the race is going to happen during the "black out"  

I wish. Great Circle had that Remora/Squid  predictive system last time (old link was https://remora.greatcircle.eu/map ) that allowed you to project courses. Forss even added the Remora/squid projections to his tracker last time (sample here), but we'll have to wait until the S-H to see if it still works.843868303_ScreenShot2020-11-10at11_59_31AM.thumb.png.82183f4dbd8726c09075c3e9d5262965.png

Herman and Hitchhiker help with their projections.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

yes great to see him finally record a decent 24 hour run. This should give him confidence in the boats ability. 

lol hardly. Even the class 40 record is now 400nm in 24hrs. That’s like crawling imoca. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, stief said:

I wish. Great Circle had that Remora/Squid  predictive system last time (old link was https://remora.greatcircle.eu/map ) that allowed you to project courses. Forss even added the Remora/squid projections to his tracker last time (sample here), but we'll have to wait until the S-H to see if it still works.843868303_ScreenShot2020-11-10at11_59_31AM.thumb.png.82183f4dbd8726c09075c3e9d5262965.png

Herman and Hitchhiker help with their projections.

Sure wish Forss was back again. The Forss tracker was the best by far. Hope Forss is doing well.

  • Like 2