bigrpowr

Vendee Globe 2020

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3 hours ago, Snowden said:

Yes. This is the fundamental point and could be due to a difference between sailing and aviation parlance?

True wind is ground wind plus current (i.e. the apparent wind with zero boat speed if not anchored). Hence salty old naviguessers talk about "tidal wind".

 

I am not bying this 100%, but I might well be wrong here. These boats and AC boats in particular are poorly flying airplanes. In future they get less boats and better aeroplanes. Already distinction between kiteboard and paraglider is line in the sand, or water... They see ground wind much more than true wind relative to water.

Maybe there is mixup, but I always assumed ground wind = true wind. Wind relative to water affects displacement boats, but these are not purely displacement anymore.

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2 minutes ago, KingMonkey said:

I work with a team of electrical engineers on RF issues, competing against other electrical engineers. My wife - specialising in telecoms - is also an electrical engineer who negotiated spectrum. . . And I seem to have got involved in this conversation also. 

To me electrical engineers are power people. Sure there is crossover given that power lines etc. radiate but RF is a pretty specialised field. I studied electronics and Telecoms to get into it. Most of my career, except several years spent sailing, has been in working with radio, especially satellite. 

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Excellent podcast with Conrad Colman discussing the race, especially the mast break (1st 10 mins). Didn't know he was on the IMOCA committee that decided the one design mast.

https://www.spreaker.com/user/13269964/episode-21-vendee-globe-ep-3-week-2?utm_medium=widget&utm_source=user%3A13269964&utm_term=episode_title

 

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20 minutes ago, noaano said:

They see ground wind much more than true wind relative to water.

Boats don't "see" ground wind at all unless they are in contact with the ground.  Navigators care about it because they care about where and how quickly boats come into contact with the ground.

In a different reference frame I have included videos of DDWFTW, DUWFTW and and airplane on a treadmill. I have no idea why.

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Re merits of adverse current, spoke to a friend involved in the AC campaign(s). Here is what he said:

"In theory that is true.  However to say that we hunted adverse current downwind in SF is a bit of a stretch.  Certainly it's a factor that goes into choosing a favorable side of the course but obviously the Cup is match racing so a lot of the tactical position is based on boat on boat positioning.  This is even more exaggerated with the courses being pretty small for the speeds of these boats.  One area that there can be massive gains is if you can control your opponent and do less maneuvers, even if it’s just by one less maneuver.  Maneuvers cost boat lengths and this is exaggerated at the gates.  If you can set up the race course and your opponent so  that they have to do an extra maneuver going into to a gate (weather or leeward) chances are that you are forcing them not only to do the extra maneuver but also forcing them to the unfavorable side of the course as well.  It’s a double whammy.  That’s why a lot of times in these foiling races you see pretty close crosses on a leg going into a gate, but then the next time you  on the next leg there has been massive gains one way or the other.  This has been setup a couple moves before.  Sailboat racing still comes back to the chess match. It’s just exaggerated in the speeds and distances with these boats."

So notwithstanding the physics, it still pretty much comes down to a queen's gambit.

 

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11 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

Isabelle in trouble?

Nothing new on Twitter, and nothing on tracker playback to indicate why her boat flipped to north. Hope it's just a tracker hiccup. Spreadsheet  does show a neg VMG @ 21:30FR, so something happened a few miles earlier. 

Hope all is well.

image.png

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Ruyant's LinkedOut position was captured 30mins earlier than HB and Apivia - he's been ripping over the course of last 4h: 22kn average speed, compared to 20kn by HB and only 16.8kn by Apivia.

Not exactly sure how the 30mins earlier position record is treated, but it could be that in fact Ruyant is actially in the lead when using VGs waypoint (wherever it is).

He also veered a bit West, now heading 165deg, compared to HB 156deg. 

It really does like as if he's caught up to Alex

image.png.11ec5bfa02f1e61abe375490d0e7ccb9.png

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37 minutes ago, noaano said:

Drag can never decrease per se with increase of speed for any single part of the boat. However, boat lifting off from water, part of the boat submerged chances (decreases) and overall drag for the whole boat thus decreased. This is the crux. However if boat is already flying out of the water, added lift and drag from head on current can't help in any form I can think of. L / D for a foil is pretty constant, after all.

I hope to god it can!

There is a VMD for the hull/foil combination. Once the hull is out then your left with the foil and it's induced drag will reduce with speed for a fixed load. 

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16 minutes ago, weightless said:

Boats don't "see" ground wind at all unless they are in contact with the ground.  Navigators care about it because they care about where and how quickly boats come into contact with the ground.

Technically this is of course true, boat cannot really see wind over ground itself, you're right.

16 minutes ago, weightless said:

In a different reference frame I have included videos of DDWFTW

DDWFTW, long rope on kite, wing flying zigzag, body going dead downwind. What is stopping it?

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37 minutes ago, noaano said:

 

I am not bying this 100%, but I might well be wrong here. These boats and AC boats in particular are poorly flying airplanes. In future they get less boats and better aeroplanes. Already distinction between kiteboard and paraglider is line in the sand, or water... They see ground wind much more than true wind relative to water.

Maybe there is mixup, but I always assumed ground wind = true wind. Wind relative to water affects displacement boats, but these are not purely displacement anymore.

I banged my head against this 10 years ago. 30 years in professional aviation out the window because someone with a boat has an instrument with a speed labeled true which isn't.

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6 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

There is a VMD for the hull/foil combination. Once the hull is out then your left with the foil and it's induced drag will reduce with speed for a fixed load. 

 

Depends on dynamics of foil I guess, whether it is truly flying in water like kiteboard hydrofoil in lateral flow or lifting out and skimming on the surface reducing its footprint with speed. Then there is cavitation. Bit uncharted territory I guess, still

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1 minute ago, Buck Turgidson said:

I banged my head against this 10 years ago. 30 years in professional aviation out the window because someone with a boat has an instrument with a speed labeled true which isn't.

This.

I spend my days banging my head on why there is difference between UTC, TAI and GPST and dozen others which differ so little it is almost unnoticeable, until it of course isn't :)

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4 minutes ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

Ruyant's LinkedOut position was captured 30mins earlier than HB and Apivia

Good catch. So, yes, probably ahead along the moving target of invisible waypoints ahead (as explained by Conrad Colman in the podcast linked above).

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As they head into the ice zone are there any new developments on spotter tech? 

Audi seems interested.   AT would look at home in one of these spaceships.

Cool gear.

 

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Arkea has serious wheels. He’s been as fast or faster than the leaders for a day now.  Too bad he got lost in the NA and has to play catch up. 
 

 Boris has good wheels compared to his little group. 
 

Did anyone mention Burton passed PRB? That’s notable. He’s leading the 1st gen foilers. His boat was converted to foils, right?  It wasn’t built with foils, unlike Boris’ boat. 
 

 

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Not much new here, but it's short.

"Alex Thomson Racing's Technical Director, Ross Daniel, and Performance Manager, Neal McDonald, for their thoughts on Alex's progress in the first 12 days of the Vendée Globe."

 

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Ruh-roh.  Has something happened to Isabelle?  She seems to be pointing the wrong way.  I hope it's just a glitch in the matrix.

Edit:  Oops.  seems others have already posted about it.

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Well, Caraës' team will be on it. He discussed the RaceManagement set-up in Voiles and Voliers earlier today. Obviously, they don't have to wait 7 hrs to know What'sUp

Quote

Sails and Sailboats: Tell us now about your race organization. It must be taking?

Jacques Caraës:We also took our rhythm not cruising but racing. We have been living in Les Sables-d'Olonne since the end of last September until the arrival of the last one. After a particular start, we therefore entered our pure phase of surveillance. We are four people: Claire Renou, Pierre Hays, Hubert Lemonnier and me. We have well-tuned shift rotations. 6 a.m. to 2 p.m., 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. and 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. We distribute ourselves over these three time slots by switching every four days so as not to have a routine. It's not bad and we organize ourselves fairly among all of us. Our first role is to understand what is happening on the water. By making our files and our personal routings because we have good polars, we get to know what is going to happen.We must have a well-balanced eye on all the trajectories, the speeds, the changes of sail of the boats. If we have any doubts, we call the skippers. Depending on the damage, we also know the weak points of the boats. We thus adjust our fleeces according to the damage that will inevitably occur. It is this informed eye that allows us to reassure us and reassure the environment of the event.

[snip]

Sails and Sailboats: A few days ago you got a little angry. Why ?

Jacques Caraës: As you can put a yellow card on a football pitch, I warned the skippers that there were certain things to integrate. A little call to order. When we are not warned and we see a boat crossing the road, we can always fear the worst. We therefore asked them, in addition this year they have the WhatsApp application which is practically instantaneous, that they tell us that they will go up to the mast and especially that they warn us when the operation is finished. Also considerate their team manager. Damien Seguin ( Apicil) dived him under his keel without telling anyone. I didn't really find it good. They must now give their intentions and the deadlines they imagine for such committed work. The recall has been made and it is working perfectly.

 

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22 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Did anyone mention Burton passed PRB? That’s notable. He’s leading the 1st gen foilers. His boat was converted to foils, right?  It wasn’t built with foils, unlike Boris’ boat. 

It was Armel’s BP 2016! 

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3 hours ago, Airwick said:

Got a chuckle from that, I used to own one of these (the "cargo" version) as my first car! We called it the "ham slicer" shifter!
The stickers were holding it together:
image.png.db564c5377867b62043888b0b2f623f7.png

EDIT: Also, the shifter diagram is actually wrong: the 1st gear was actually where you'd expect it to be (ie. forward left). The main weirdness was that reverse was next to 4th (where a 6th gear would have been if there was also a 5th...) with just a weak spring stopping you from getting there! So you had to make sure to pull straight back going from 3rd to 4th as going from 3rd to R would not have been good! 

I have a Miata and reverse is next to 6th. There is a spring there so you would have to really screw up to go into R rather than 6th

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10 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I have a Miata and reverse is next to 6th. There is a spring there so you would have to really screw up to go into R rather than 6th

On the 5 speed reverse is below 5th. There's a lockout so you can't go 5th to reverse.

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My version of the rankings has LO circa 20 NM ahead of HB at the moment  but predicts APIVIA first to Keguelan by a few hours over HB.

 

vg 210021.PNG

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3 hours ago, Airwick said:

Got a chuckle from that, I used to own one of these (the "cargo" version) as my first car! We called it the "ham slicer" shifter!
The stickers were holding it together:
image.png.db564c5377867b62043888b0b2f623f7.png

EDIT: Also, the shifter diagram is actually wrong: the 1st gear was actually where you'd expect it to be (ie. forward left). The main weirdness was that reverse was next to 4th (where a 6th gear would have been if there was also a 5th...) with just a weak spring stopping you from getting there! So you had to make sure to pull straight back going from 3rd to 4th as going from 3rd to R would not have been good! 

The shift pattern in that pic is from a Citroën 2CV, Dyane or Ami-8 rather than a R4. 

Cheers, 

              W.

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With routings so close, wonder if tension alarms are going off amongst the trio. Thanks Hitch and Chay. 

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1 hour ago, noaano said:

Wind relative to water affects displacement boats, but these are not purely displacement anymore. foiling boats, planning boats, kite boards, foiling kite boards and all other craft that are powered from the wind water interface.

FIFY

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It's getting real interesting.  HB and LO in a full on drag race with Apivia shaving miles and going fast. Can't wait for the first SO low they hook into.

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6 hours ago, noaano said:

Maybe CEP would be fitting/right term for this error? 

After 2 bottles of wine I don’t know. Will get back later :lol:

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Isabelle has been traveling opposite direction enough for the tracker to register a distance....I'm honestly just a lurker this round, but for all the discourse about drag et al...perhaps this is more strange?

 

I'll go back to the shadows, but she is 15th, no slouch and sailing the wrong way....seems a story here.

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1 hour ago, Roleur said:

Arkea has serious wheels. He’s been as fast or faster than the leaders for a day now.  Too bad he got lost in the NA and has to play catch up. 
 

 Boris has good wheels compared to his little group. 
 

Did anyone mention Burton passed PRB? That’s notable. He’s leading the 1st gen foilers. His boat was converted to foils, right?  It wasn’t built with foils, unlike Boris’ boat. 
 

 

Boris’ boat was built with foils but heavily modified with larger foils for this race. Burton’s boat was ex Banque Pop that won the last VG so think of it as like Boris’ boat but without the mods...

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48 minutes ago, littlechay said:

My version of the rankings has LO circa 20 NM ahead of HB at the moment  but predicts APIVIA first to Keguelan by a few hours over HB.

 

vg 210021.PNG

Neal Macdonald, the BOSS performance manager, says that so far HB has not been sailing in the conditions optimized for. So is very satisfied with the position. I think he is talking about the deeper downwind angles expected once they get south where the smaller foils will create less drag. It will be interesting to see. Also in heavier downwind conditions at the speed they can travel and the cold spray, then the cocoon like existence of HB must surely be less tiring. 

We should know more in a week or so. Certainly LO had the most impressive turns of speed in the Artic race where HB was not racing.

 

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59 minutes ago, mathystuff said:

On the 5 speed reverse is below 5th. There's a lockout so you can't go 5th to reverse.

There was definitely no lockout, just a rather soft spring, only saving grace is that the travel was quite long so even though it didn't take much force, you actually had to twist your wrist in an awkward way to got to R which was probably the only reason it wasn't much of an issue...
Best feature of the car is that you basically didn't need to parallel park: just get the nose in, walk to the rear and grab the tubular bumper and slide the back of the car over to the curb! I couldn't quite lift the back end but I could slide it fairly easily (I was reasonably at the time from the windsurfing and Hobie cat sailing!)
It was a bit tricky pulling a H16 on a trailer behind because of how much wider the trailer was compared to the front of the car (well over a foot on each side)!

Anyway, back to regular programming... It looks like they might be able to try to stay in this pocket of wind in 72h unless they try to punch through further South to meet the building breeze down there but it looks like it would be tricky (and risky if someone was to successfully "cut the corner")
image.png.88ad8c65635ac9e12c21061963967a30.png 

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46 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Vendee20.JPG

vendeetrackup.JPG

What polars do you have? and could you share please? Mine are just a guess based on an old IMOCA60 file I found online somewhere. My numbers to K. Island are almost a day faster than yours so there is a bit of difference (circa 10%). 

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Hitchhiker & LittleChay - I find the simple world chart with the orthographic project is far more useful for imagining the course one you get to the mid latitudes. 

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2 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

Isabelle has been traveling opposite direction enough for the tracker to register a distance....I'm honestly just a lurker this round, but for all the discourse about drag et al...perhaps this is more strange?

 

I'll go back to the shadows, but she is 15th, no slouch and sailing the wrong way....seems a story here.

3604 and 3618.

Keep snoozing.

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Did anyone find out anything about Isabelle's tracker flip last sked? Her MMSI number is 228278600

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25 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

3604 and 3618.

Keep snoozing.

Looks like the tracker fixed itself and Isabelle is now going well in the correct direction.  That was a correction to the tracker, not a new update sched.

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6 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Looks like the tracker fixed itself and Isabelle is now going well in the correct direction.  That was a correction to the tracker, not a new update sched.

Link? (I tried reloading various trackers and in various browsers, but can't see the correction)

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27 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Looks like the tracker fixed itself and Isabelle is now going well in the correct direction.  That was a correction to the tracker, not a new update sched.

okay?

But I checked the HB website tracker and it shows the same as the VG at this moment so ... I don't see the correction yet. 

Anyway, maybe nothing, no big...just not normal to see a track go the opposite direction since as I remember, these are spot placements and it would be weird if a glitch had a boat going 180 degrees right when it takes the snapshot, but maybe it was a broach caught right at the moment...hell, I'm only a mainly silent fan (not even offshore experienced fan, been bitch slapped enough)...but is it normal for a tracker to have a boat sailing opposite the course?

I'm sure it is a technical glitch like you say...but?

(edit)

I've been following the hypothetical ability to track boats via satellite AIS via MT (very cool coding) so I would ponder, can one focus on boats back it the mi-pack to see if a specific boat is going say...against the course..outside a set reporting tracker?

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15 minutes ago, stief said:

Link? (I tried reloading various trackers and in various browsers, but can't see the correction)

I'm not seeing that either. I'm still seeing 012T at 9.3kt for the last 30 min.

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So much for AT having to worry about sweating it out 'thru' the doldrums...

 

What's up with the batten tension tackle? Standard OEM feature? 

5 hours ago, OPAL said:

Kojiro Shiraishi mainsail work.

Kojiro Shiraishi repaired mainsail.jpg

 

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If nothing else the long midday (Australian time) break between updates builds up the drama.

Has Thomas had to continue to bare away to stay in the wind?  Has this slowed him down....

with close racing and the others on AIS screen will Alex ever sleep again?

Can Charlie make his position between the other 2 stick or will he be spat out the back?

answers to these questions and more in 67 minutes....

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1 hour ago, Liquid said:

So much for AT having to worry about sweating it out 'thru' the doldrums...

 

What's up with the batten tension tackle? Standard OEM feature? 

 

leech line led down the luff.

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Everyone still moving in the right direction.
The glitch is still in Isabelles track, an ~2 hours detour. Nothing in her or the race media yet.

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7 minutes ago, stinky said:

leech line led down the luff.

I still don't see it... 

Up the leech, across batten #2 (?), then down the luff?

Kojiro Shiraishi repaired mainsail.jpg

So, leach line sure, but how is the line that runs into that horizontal sleeve towards the luff doesn't rip that fabric in a few minutes whilst under tension? 

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3 minutes ago, Chasm said:

Everyone still moving in the right direction.
The glitch is still in Isabelles track, an ~2 hours detour. Nothing in her or the race media yet.

I show her ok in the update just now. 

LinkedOut looking fast and #1 for the first time as well.

 

image.thumb.png.eebf54f25bee0244525fb847f07d21af.png

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She seems ok, but so did Jeremie.
The old weather in the tracker shows ~12kts wind, so probably something simple. As soon as she got turned around she was up to speed again. It was and still is night so a few more hours for light.

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6 minutes ago, Chasm said:

She seems ok, but so did Jeremie.
The old weather in the tracker shows ~12kts wind, so probably something simple. As soon as she got turned around she was up to speed again. It was and still is night so a few more hours for light.

That happened to me once - I pulled off the highway to get gas, then back on the wrong way.  Figured it out about an hour later when my wife woke up and asked me why we were headed West. She reminds me of this constantly. 
 

So maybe that’s what happened?

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The trailing pack of 12 boats looks like they are going to be parked for a few days in the Doldrums. That sucks for all of them, but especially the foilers trying to get back in the race.

The only route I'm seeing for Jeremie/Charal down to the Doldrums, over the next few days, is way to the West of the typical course.  Am I missing an option?

AT's 04:00UTC report has him at 22knots in 11knots of breeze. Incredibe!   That's the first time I recall any of the boats at double windspeed, at any point of sail.

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 I have watched a bunch now. It's great to see the people and the fast sailing. But I would really love to see them tack or jibe, or adjust their trim, or change a sail.

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28 minutes ago, nroose said:

 I have watched a bunch now. It's great to see the people and the fast sailing. But I would really love to see them tack or jibe, or adjust their trim, or change a sail.

One of Sam’s vids goes through a sail change I believe. 

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2 hours ago, Liquid said:

I still don't see it... 

Up the leech, across batten #2 (?), then down the luff?

Kojiro Shiraishi repaired mainsail.jpg

So, leach line sure, but how is the line that runs into that horizontal sleeve towards the luff doesn't rip that fabric in a few minutes whilst under tension? 

I'm too computer illiterate to figure out how to link a video, but in his 11/19 daily update video, there is a shot with those 4 bolts cut and that horizontal sleeve is gone. I attached a screen shot.   In a previous shot he showed slitting the old luff tape to remove the fluorescent yellow line.  So it appears that in this photo, that horizantal sleeve is the old luff tape and is just sitting there. Which also explains why it's so crooked.  

Screenshot_20201120-224038_Chrome.jpg

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2 hours ago, Liquid said:

So, leach line sure, but how is the line that runs into that horizontal sleeve towards the luff doesn't rip that fabric in a few minutes whilst under tension? 

Yeah, that looks odd. Is the becket on the wrong block, or else for greater purchase can the line be led the other way round and then through what looks like a low friction ring at the base of the turning block?

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10 minutes ago, thengling said:

Yeah, that looks odd. Is the becket on the wrong block, or else for greater purchase can the line be led the other way round and then through what looks like a low friction ring at the base of the turning block?

bog standard setup for big boats with a squarehead. only thing odd about this photo is how crooked the pocket is. willing to bet its not attached in the photo and will be plastered to the sail with sticky back.

purchase is at the leech end so the part running across the sail is at 1/3 of the load of the leech line, so doesn't add too much compressive load to the batten.

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Tough luck for Jeremie, at the restart the forecast looked good, and now the NA trades are all fucked up, and the doldrums getting huge, and does not look to get better soon..

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Looks like Isabelle was a penalty. Broken engine seal? Nothing on the noticeboard yet. I'm blind. It is in "Jury hearing decisions VG20RG" 2x2h for a broken prop seal, 1x1h for sending the picture of the seal to late.


 

Quote

It hadn't been the subject of communication until then, but 3 boats were penalized by the jury (which probably explains the trajectory of MACSF tonight). 2h penalty for @IsabelleJoschke and @GiraudVendee and 1 hour for @LouisBurtonOff (for lead violations).

 

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7 hours ago, stief said:

Did anyone find out anything about Isabelle's tracker flip last sked? Her MMSI number is 228278600

I have her phone number and I'm not sharing. :lol:

Remember her namesake and Open 60's 25 years ago that you could play tennis on. 

1996 09 Seahorse, PRB.jpg

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Top 3 should be around Illha da Trinidade now; I'm worried someone hitting the island. Tracker doesn't show the island ...

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8 minutes ago, minca3 said:

Already mentioned before but here with link: Neal McDonald talks about HB performance, that he thinks HB has yet to show its speed and how AT went through Theta.

https://www.imoca.org/en/news/news/the-best-is-yet-to-come-from-hugo-boss-mcdonald

Dunno about that. Looks like to me to date Linked Out is the fastest boat on a consistent basis. I think he was nearly or 200nm behind Alex at one stage and now he's some 25nm ahead. Scary to think we're Alex would be if he hadn't of sailed through Zeta? The Hugo Boss team think Alex has yet to show his speed? Ok so when is he saving that speed for? Alex seems to be coping with Apivia ok but Linked Out keeps locking the miles over Alex. 

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6 minutes ago, rock said:

appropriate  video for a new leader.... true young guns

 

I don't like the look of the overriding turn on the winch @  1.54... unless there's something I'm missing. 

 

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7 minutes ago, rock said:

appropriate  video for a new leader.... true young guns

 

Wow this guy is pumped.! Good on him. Had his fair share of trouble too. Now that he is in the lead he is going to be very hard to catch IMO...

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16 hours ago, stief said:

Cheers. This Vrimibo? Tempted to see if I they'll let me buy you a drink.

Indeed. "Vrimibo" is the Dutch shortened version of "vrijdag middag borrel", or drinks at Friday afternoon. As our bars and restaurants are closed due to corona atm in The Netherlands, it's drinks at home. We had an online music pubquiz later in the evening with friends and family. An excellent evening, and no headache this morning ;-)

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18 hours ago, noaano said:

This error is calculated error magnitude from last position report, speed times time. And its miles, HDOP we don't know as its not reported but that would be meters.

Maybe CEP would be fitting/right term for this error? 

According to ESA this would be GDOP I think;

Estimations of the expected accuracy are given by:

  • GDOP, σ0 ... geometric precision in position and time
  • PDOP, σ0 ... precision in position
  • TDOP , σ0 ... precision in time
  • HDOP , σ0 ... precision in horizontal positioning
  • VDOP , σ0 ... precision in vertical positioning

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20 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Looks like to me to date Linked Out is the fastest boat on a consistent basis. I think he was nearly or 200nm behind Alex at one stage and now he's some 25nm ahead. 

Nah, LinkedOut has just had more adverse current against her!   Once the current is going with her, she'll get spat out the back!

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21 minutes ago, sfigone said:

Nah, LinkedOut has just had more adverse current against her!   Once the current is going with her, she'll get spat out the back!

We will see, one thing is for certain, LO is fast, and hasn’t shown a truly weak spot yet. What a job he has done sailing it! He got up today and went right back to kicking ass. Tremendous story so far, just awesome. If Alex does not win after all the years, money, great sailing, effort and sportsmanship I would be saddened but seeing these young ones out there, I can’t help but become a fan. My money is still on AT, he knows what is coming.

Meanwhile poor Jeremie this morning: “Pourquoi, MFer? Pourquoi??”

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41 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Dunno about that. Looks like to me to date Linked Out is the fastest boat on a consistent basis. I think he was nearly or 200nm behind Alex at one stage and now he's some 25nm ahead. Scary to think we're Alex would be if he hadn't of sailed through Zeta? The Hugo Boss team think Alex has yet to show his speed? Ok so when is he saving that speed for? Alex seems to be coping with Apivia ok but Linked Out keeps locking the miles over Alex. 

He's 25 ahead on the rhumb line, but Alex isn't sailing the rhumb line, its still incredibly close and the SO is what Alex's boat is built for, and thats where the real battle will take place.

I'm looking forward to a continuing tight battle amongst these three. The 11 o clock sched as Alex faster than Thomas, but both slower than Charlie, just showing how tight it's going to stay for now.

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Just now, JonRowe said:

He's 25 ahead on the rhumb line, but Alex isn't sailing the rhumb line, its still incredibly close and the SO is what Alex's boat is built for, and thats where the real battle will take place.

I'm looking forward to a continuing tight battle amongst these three.

Jon just for the record rhumb line or nor rhumb line Linked Out was at least 200 nautical miles behind Alex after Theta. Spin it like you want that sounds like boat speed to me? I'm routing for Alex and I hope your right re the SO.? Unfortunately it's not just the boat, the skipper has a huge impact. Thomas maybe pushing/working the boat harder, sleeping less etc etc? Great race....!

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5 minutes ago, BozoC said:

Apivia : 94 nm in 4 hours ..... 

WOW..! Linked out the fastest over 24 hours 515nm. 

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Thomas Ruyant quoted as saying very stressful, flat out, on the edge. So clearly he is burning it at both ends whilst AT is pacing?

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9 minutes ago, loneshark64 said:

We will see, one thing is for certain, LO is fast, and hasn’t shown a truly weak spot yet. What a job he has done sailing it! He got up today and went right back to kicking ass. Tremendous story so far, just awesome. If Alex does not win after all the years, money, great sailing, effort and sportsmanship I would be saddened but seeing these young ones out there, I can’t help but become a fan. My money is still on AT, he knows what is coming.

Meanwhile poor Jeremie this morning: “Pourquoi, MFer? Pourquoi??”

Yeah your right about "What's coming" Thomas could push the boat too hard and break it. It seems Charlie maybe more the conservative one. 

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2 minutes ago, cms said:

Thomas Ruyant quoted as saying very stressful, flat out, on the edge. So clearly he is burning it at both ends whilst AT is pacing?

Yes and that could well be it. Got to be there at the end to win it. 

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2 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Jon just for the record rhumb line or nor rhumb line Linked Out was at least 200 nautical miles behind Alex after Theta. Spin it like you want that sounds like boat speed to me? I'm routing for Alex and I hope your right re the SO.? Unfortunately it's not just the boat, the skipper has a huge impact. Thomas maybe pushing/working the boat harder, sleeping less etc etc? Great race....!

I’m not seeing any clear advantage for any of them.  Alex got ahead through theta, but then got given a shit hand when the other two got a lift coming out of the doldrums behind him.

There were about 6 boats that were fast enough to win this race on day one.  Three of them are still together and like the others that have dropped out of the group you’re more likely to see them slowly drop behind due to a mistake or an issue than make a meaningful break away due to boat speed or routing.

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Saying the boat is optimized for the (so-called) southern ocean always sounds to me like “Volvo was optimized for crashes” or “this football helmet was optimized to minimize brain trauma.” Thanks Mr engineer. You try it first. 

Mike Tyson’s famous quote (paraphrasing Joe Louis: “Everyone has a plan til they get punched in the mouth.”

And Joe Louis: “Once that bell rings you’re on your own. It’s just you and the other guy.”

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3 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Jon just for the record rhumb line or nor rhumb line Linked Out was at least 200 nautical miles behind Alex after Theta. Spin it like you want that sounds like boat speed to me? I'm routing for Alex and I hope your right re the SO.? Unfortunately it's not just the boat, the skipper has a huge impact. Thomas maybe pushing/working the boat harder, sleeping less etc etc? Great race....!

Don't get me wrong I'm not putting any shade on the skill of Thomas, or denying the fact he has a quick boat. However he caught up with pressure from behind, and they've all been fighting a closer race since they caught up.

We also know different foils work better in different conditions, we know Apivia , Linked Out and Hugo Boss have different foil configurations and the team seems (to me) genuinely happy with the performance of HB so far.

Now they are all in the same weather systems, it'll be interesting to see how they compare properly, as long as they all make it through the next transition together I think it'll remain a tight race unless HB somehow has the beans to blast through the SO.

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18 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Jon just for the record rhumb line or nor rhumb line Linked Out was at least 200 nautical miles behind Alex after Theta. Spin it like you want that sounds like boat speed to me? I'm routing for Alex and I hope your right re the SO.? Unfortunately it's not just the boat, the skipper has a huge impact. Thomas maybe pushing/working the boat harder, sleeping less etc etc? Great race....!

I replayed the tracker, and it looks to me like LinkedOut was a max of about 150nm behind the leader following Theta, and stayed at least 100nm behind until the doldrums.  So most of the catching up seems to have been done entering the SA trades.  That could be raw boatspeed, but that might be particular to the conditions they've had the past couple of days (and it didn't seem to be there in the north atlantic trades).  It could be that he cut the cheese on the inside line (in the French sense of the phrase).  Or he could be working his ass off and pushing hard right at the moment.

But I'm really glad the leaders are so close together, and nobody has been running away with it.  Experience vs young Turk;  different boat designs;  different routing options.  It'll be fascinating to see how they pick their way through the coming meteorological minefield.

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