Vendee Globe 2020

[jack_sparrow 7,462]

27 minutes ago, Herman said:

Let's get a bit Biblical......Le Cam projected as third boat,...Burton and Davies as 4th and 5th, hours after JLC.

Herman .."it out of my arse" is complaining your "computing" power and "polar" shit is 'humping his leg' bad. 

 

2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Louis and Sam the two smokies.....JLC doesn't stall my guess is these three might be waving to each other sometime over the weekend. 

 

[phillysailor 2,375]

Alex isn’t making good speeds compared to his closest competitors in the last few hours. Hopefully he’s just been tidying up, getting sleep and getting ready for the hellacious downhill run to come.

I really want to see him do well. Hugo B deserves a lot of kudos for their investments, and Alex is a hard working gent!

That said, go Jean LC!! Have a great race Sam!

[loneshark64 375]

3 hours ago, littlechay said:

the missus and my son are not impressed at the amount of time I am spending looking at squiggly lines on the screen! 

Mine thinks I am spending all this time looking at girls on the internet. If she knew it was boats again I’d be in deep shit.

[loneshark64 375]

19 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Alex isn’t making good speeds compared to his closest competitors in the last few hours. Hopefully he’s just been tidying up, getting sleep and getting ready for the hellacious downhill run to come.

The hub suggests he was asleep for a long stretch, if that data is accurate. Good time for it, long nights recently.

[Rtfq 12]

1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

I really want to see him do well. Hugo B deserves a lot of kudos for their investments, and Alex is a hard working gent!

Hugo Boss' aims are publicity from their investment. I think they've had that back 10x over. 

Agree on Alex and his hard work though, a tight race between him and charal would've been interesting. If you see charal's turning block as "built too light", I guess both boats have had the same problem, although one had a much bigger impact.

[Soton_Speed 3]

16 hours ago, stief said:

So, Herrmann, Alex (and probably some others) did indeed get the auto AP-OSCAR  software installed before the race.  Too bad the SIs don't allow Sam remote updates for her onboard systems, 

Aren't the updates freely available to 'all', thereby ok?

[Snowden 276]

3 minutes ago, Soton_Speed said:

Aren't the updates freely available to 'all', thereby ok?

would you risk updating your AP 'over the air' in the middle of the S Atlantic?

[Soton_Speed 3]

2 minutes ago, Snowden said:

would you risk updating your AP 'over the air' in the middle of the S Atlantic?

I'm asking about the legality....

[JonRowe 668]

9 minutes ago, Soton_Speed said:

I'm asking about the legality....

It depends on your interpretation of the rules:

Quote

4.3 No assistance

4.3.1 Outside help

The Skipper may not receive any assistance or outside help, including:

• any remote intervention on the boat's computer(s) or other devices,

• access to a data server, on board or elsewhere, containing weather or strategic information, in any format whatsoever, and accessible by any means whatsoever, other than those authorised by the OA,

Whilst an update to Oscar wouldn't considered weather information, it is in a sense, strategic information, it is also arguably a "remote intervention". If you want to take the rules at absolute as written value, maybe it is acceptable, but you'd want a ruling from the RO before doing it, if you take the rules as a "sprit and intent" (which is how you're supposed to and the RO would rule against anything that broke the spirit) then I would say it is not, otherwise a boat with a sophisticated autopilot (e.g. MadPilot which Sam I believe has on board) would be able to update its model as you go around and that would definitely be a no no.

 

Is it worth the risk of bricking a device on route? Absolutely not.

 

 

[stief 3,452]

29 minutes ago, Soton_Speed said:

Aren't the updates freely available to 'all', thereby ok?

Not sure. The NOR (4.33) has many exceptions, but "non-embarked" part seems to suggest that 'pre-embarked' would be OK

4.3.3. Performance support

It is prohibited:

• to receive or access any analysis, interpretation, processed information or data carried out outside the boat and, in a general way, any provision of tactical and/or technical information necessary for decision making in order to improve the performance of a boat or its skipper.

• to send data from the boat to land which could be used to analyse and improve performance except if they are made public instantaneously on reception. The data access method shall be endorsed by the race management beforehand.

• to send data between the boat and its team, in one way or the other, which could be used to analyze and improve the choice of trajectory of the boat

• to access any software or update non-embarked in Les Sables d’Olonne. Any automated delivery of data, live or delayed, apart from those specifically authorized by the race management.

• to receive any calcutation designed to improve performance or optimize the trajectory carried out on a non-embarked computer (with the exception of requests authorized in NOR 4.3.2)

• [snip]

• Technical advice shall be restricted to actions of repair; under no circumstances shall it be connected with manoeuvering or operating the boat, particularly to compensate the loss in performance following technical damage.

• Remote control, defined as « any external human and/or technological intervention on the boat, including sending personalized updates by email, allowing remote action on one or several elements, equipment, or settings of the boat in place of the crew”.

• Downloading software or updates by the boat is prohibited (except for those publicly accessible, referenced and subject to authorization by the race management before downloading).

Edited November 26, 2020 by stief
added link

[JonRowe 668]

3 minutes ago, stief said:

Not sure. The NOR (4.33) has many exceptions, but "non-embarked" part seems to suggest that 'pre-embarked' would be OK

<snip>

I knew that clause was somewhere 

[stief 3,452]

8 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

I knew that clause was somewhere 

Good memory. Re  "non-embarked" -- can't recall such a phrase in race docs, so it stuck in my head. 

I also really liked this part: "to send data from the boat to land which could be used to analyse and improve performance except if they are made public instantaneously on reception."

Hope HB ups its game with Herrmann using that clause. So far, Malizia public dashboard is winning over the Hub, and haven't looked who else might get on that podium.

[Snowden 276]

1 minute ago, stief said:

I also really liked this part: "to send data from the boat to land which could be used to analyse and improve performance except if they are made public instantaneously on reception."

Hope HB ups its game with Herrmann using that clause. So far, Malizia public dashboard is winning over the Hub, and haven't looked who else might get on that podium.

of course - now I understand why those teams are publishing the data. good idea from whoever thought of that compromise.

[Corryvreckan 168]

If I roll the weather forward 24hrs on the tracker, it looks like a band of NE wind shows up close to the center of the high and right in front of... Jean Le Cam.  If he aims to hook into that, he could still skootch into the fast lane ahead of Sam and Louis.

 

[stief 3,452]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Weather update

Burton, Davies and Thomson took the slingshot around the HP zone, getting valuable southing. Burton and Davies +/- 270 nm when compared to their 0830 positions today with those 24 hrs ago. Thomson got 239 nm southing compared to yesterday morning 0830. Simon did good business too, and is now 90 nm to the east of Thomson. JLC got 154 nm southeast in 24 hrs. Dalin and Ruyant dropped of the LP and were caught by the HP zone, as predicted. Resulting in less wind, GFS and ECMWF say +/- 5 kts (Dalin) and 9 kts (Ruyant). As Dalin did almost double boat speed in the last 30 minutes before the 0900 schedule timestamp, we know that both models are wrong on the position of the light wind zone in the centre of the HP-zone. 

Backtesting polars and GFS forecast 

In pic 1 the 26-11-20 08:30 and 25-11-20 08:30 actual positions are shown. And weather tracks generated yesterday morning based on the GFS-forecast of the 25-11-20 00:00 run. 09:00 projected positions in red circles. Both Dalin and Ruyant did not get so far as predicted on the east side of the HP. Delta projection vs actual 35 resp. 75 nm. Burton and Davies were 45 nm and 23 nm more to the west and northwest than predicted. Thomson was more or less spot-on, less than 10 nm see pic 2. Escoffier 65 nm more to the west than predicted. Herrman 32 nm further SE. Bestaven 16 nm to the SSW of the projection. JLC is still fighting the Romans as Obelix without a magic potion (read foils) and refuses to go south. I'm not unhappy with the results, as both weather models had a hard job getting the dynamic situation with HP and LP-zones all over the map.

The prophecy

Let's get a bit Biblical, and see if the prophecy of yesterday still could pan out or not. Weather routing with GFS 00:00 run and 11:30 CET positions. All foilers @ 102% polars for now. Table 3 is the outcome, colors indicate more or less similar ETA's. Dalin first, Ruyant within a couple of hours later. And surprisingly, did not see that coming, Le Cam projected as third boat, half a day later than Dalin. Wow. Burton and Davies as 4th and 5th, hours after JLC. Escoffier, Bestaven and Simon same ETA some 6 hrs behind that. Thomson and Herrmann behind them. Thomson has the latest ETA of the top 10 boats projected, which is more than a day behind Dalin.

So it it getting interesting in the coming days how much DTL is going to disappear, get the popcorn! 

Thanks as ever Herman (the real Herman, not the other Herrmann). Good to read a prophet after days and days of listening to gurus hedging like crazy with their really "complicated" relationship with St Helena. Sounds like a Facebook status update.

Obelix! haven't read Obelix and Asterix since high school French class. 

Now off to hunt down the historical tracks of southern lows. The way the current trains are forecast to splatter on the Horn seem  . . .  odd.  Bus stops vs train stations. 

Various DTLs indeed. DTL of 700nm Alex-Armel seems to be the number to beat for Dalin-Sam-leCam

 

 

[blunderfull 441]

Brilliant sunrise.....clac,clac,clac

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CIDpr5soZCl/?igshid=1nfeuppmj8f82

[Varan 1,673]

English version from Vendee site summarizing the past day.

Davies in particular seems to have the timing of her trajectory just right and continues to gain with good breeze and a profitable angle south, unlike fourth placed Kevin Escoffier (PRB) who this time yesterday morning admitted he could not decide which way to go...

With an average speed of 16.6 knots overnight and a VMG of 8.6 knots, Isabelle Joschke (MACSF) in 15th, recorded the fleet's best performances of the night...

Armel Tripon (L'Occitane en Provence) took his penalty of four hours yesterday and so he has not yet really caught up again with his target group...

The three still in the Northern Hemisphere are Sébastien Destremau, Kojiro Shiraishi and Jérémie Beyou.

[stief 3,452]

10 hours ago, littlechay said:

We were not in the dark at all the foil was broken off. We were told how much and even got some pics...... there was no conciparcy ... the foil was broken .. end of. No more story to tell.

Almost exactly 4 years ago Clean outright asked Alex about the conspiracy foil stuff, but even that didn't kill the speculation. IIRC, it was the not-missed troll who for pages and pages kept trying to resurrect the conspiracy.

fun to rehear Alex laughing about the speculation in his audio interview with Clean (at about the 17 min mark)

 

[stief 3,452]

Happy Birthday Tip&Shaft

Quote

Tip & Shaft turns 5 tomorrow Friday . But we figured that sending you two emails on the same day was a lot, so let's get ahead of the curve.

Tip & Shaft is 5 years old and has changed a lot since the first issue on November 27, 2015. That very first email was sent to 624 people - and it was a bit spam , we have to admit today! 240 issues later, the message you are reading has been sent to ... 7,875 subscribers.

You're almost as good as Clean cutting through the spam and keeping us informed here, and almost as easy to understand. Give us transcripts of your audio that we can dump into an English translation, and you'll be better. Cheers

[dolphinmaster 83]

15 minutes ago, stief said:

Almost exactly 4 years ago Clean outright asked Alex about the conspiracy foil stuff, but even that didn't kill the speculation. IIRC, it was the not-missed troll who for pages and pages kept trying to resurrect the conspiracy.

fun to rehear Alex laughing about the speculation in his audio interview with Clean (at about the 17 min mark)

 

Speculation is served up around here on a daily basis like a 5 gallon pot of runny porridge.

[Snowden 276]

would be interested for someone clued up to watch this and comment. that's most on this thread, right?

 

[troll99 446]

 

[LeoV 2,162]

31 minutes ago, Snowden said:

would be interested for someone clued up to watch this and comment.

He assumes monolithic, but nice to see someone putting in the effort.

[F18 Sailor 285]

31 minutes ago, Snowden said:

would be interested for someone clued up to watch this and comment. that's most on this thread, right?

 

Generally speaking, his analysis is about as accurate as you can do from home with many, many unknowns.

[stief 3,452]

30 minutes ago, Snowden said:

would be interested for someone clued up to watch this and comment. that's most on this thread, right?

Thanks for the find. His estimated CAD drawings are helpful. That was a lot of work.

 

[F18 Sailor 285]

Just now, LeoV said:

He assumes monolithic, but nice to see someone putting in the effort.

Exactly. I doubt there are very many, if any monolithic structures in this boat. The exception may be the bottom of the hull (IIRC, Comanche and the 2015-2016 Hugo Boss had monolithic hull bottoms). The reality is it is much easier to simulate a solid structure vs. a paneled structure.

[European Bloke 423]

It was a lot of work, but I'm not sure it adds anything. He says that the cut outs cause stress concentrations, no shit. When one thing breaks other parts pick up load and they consequentially fall, again nothing new to most people. The dynamic loads are hard to understand, thanks for that. A structure without cut outs would be stronger, I think everyone here gets that.

Nothing he says is really wrong, and the blokes not a sailor but he gets it. If basic engineering concepts are not something you understand he explains a bit about stresses.

He doesn't knock the designers.

[Snowden 276]

congrats to whoever from this thread is leading on Virtual Regatta:

[Herman 1,195]

5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Herman .."it out of my arse" is complaining your "computing" power and "polar" shit is 'humping his leg' bad. 

 

 

A good arse there Jack 

[Horsti 8]

13 minutes ago, European Bloke said:

It was a lot of work, but I'm not sure it adds anything. He says that the cut outs cause stress concentrations, no shit. When one thing breaks other parts pick up load and they consequentially fall, again nothing new to most people. The dynamic loads are hard to understand, thanks for that. A structure without cut outs would be stronger.

Nothing he says is really wrong, and the blokes not a sailor but he gets it. If basic engineering concepts are not something you understand he explains a bit about stresses.

I guess it adds something for a lot of people with limited engineering knowledge.

But from your way of bashing his efforts I guess you were not really interested in bringing more insights, right?:)

[European Bloke 423]

19 minutes ago, Horsti said:

I guess it adds something for a lot of people with limited engineering knowledge.

But from your way of bashing his efforts I guess you were not really interested in bringing more insights, right?:)

My insight was that it you understand any of those things then don't spend 20 minutes of your life on the video, but if you really want to then who am I to stop you?

[Left Shift 2,651]

t strikes me that the routing for Davies and Burton versus Seguin or Escoffier (or even Thomson) shows significantly fewer maneuvers for Davies, all due to the timing of hooking up to the SO frontal systems. 

All speculative, of course, as I am a near-novice regarding offshore routing and single-handing, but there must be an advantage for Davies in minimizing heavy air maneuvers over a 2-3 month race of in terms of physical stamina and attention to boat speed.

[mad 3,700]

On 11/25/2020 at 3:58 PM, minca3 said:

That was what he reported after the incident happened. After the VG16, in later interviews, he said that he is not sure whether it was structural or a collision.

Yup, that water's fucking hard at 30 plus knots!

[stief 3,452]

4 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Brilliant sunrise.....clac,clac,clac

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CIDpr5soZCl/?igshid=1nfeuppmj8f82

His "merde"  makes this my fav 'clac clac clac' vid

(also liked the background of his camera here)

 

[pilot 25]

1 hour ago, LeoV said:

1 hour ago, Snowden said:

would be interested for someone clued up to watch this and comment.

He assumes monolithic, but nice to see someone putting in the effort.

The central longitudinal bulkhead with cutouts (beam as he said) is definitely quite thin but I am sure that it has thin aramid core in it. It would be too heavy to make that big structure without core. And I assume that this is the main reason why it failed (mostly on the left side) - it is too rigid on side ways. 

I think the key part in this failure is the right longitudinal beam that was repaired and supported first. He considered these not to play any role in the structure and left those out from analyze. You cant expect a cyclist to understand the importance of beams on the flat skin. 

I assume that these cracks developed due to deformations in thin unsupported skin. Slamming causes dimples (under the broken beam) and this is pulling the skin causing the central to bend on lower part. Cracks developed over the time from the cutout where the capping failed to the corners. If it were compression force below then I expect to see capping to fail in the middle not in corners.

[WLIS Jibing 268]

Has anyone said Jean Le Clac Clac Clac yet?

[stief 3,452]

4 minutes ago, WLIS Jibing said:

Has anyone said Jean Le Clac Clac Clac yet?

Google must be wrong. No results found for "Jean Le Clac"

[stief 3,452]

Teaser of Pip and her reef lines

Guess the YT version will be up later

[stief 3,452]

Guess Destremau wasn't channeling his inner Aussie on this one. 

[stief 3,452]

2 hours ago, troll99 said:

 

Like the prediction that Sam/Burton +/- 1 or two hours delta to Herrmann at the Cape, depending on models

[triumph72 17]

Perhaps this is too simplistic a question...HB was carrying the extra weight of various bit of carbon - I guess they assumed something was going to break. AT tells us that his repair may be stronger than the original structure. Why not make the original structure more robust to begin with and carry less weight in the form of carbon bits just in case?

[teamvmg 95]

Another fine broadcast.

What do you reckon he is trimming and based on what input [He's not looking up at the sails]?

What is the very lightly loaded line that he adjusts with his left hand?

 

 

[steinbrenner 19]

6 minutes ago, triumph72 said:

Perhaps this is too simplistic a question...HB was carrying the extra weight of various bit of carbon - I guess they assumed something was going to break. AT tells us that his repair may be stronger than the original structure. Why not make the original structure more robust to begin with and carry less weight in the form of carbon bits just in case?

Already discussed couple of pages ago(:

[steinbrenner 19]

3 minutes ago, teamvmg said:

Another fine broadcast.

What do you reckon he is trimming and based on what input [He's not looking up at the sails]?

What is the very lightly loaded line that he adjusts with his left hand?

 

 

Already explained couple of videos and couple of pages ago(:

Main sheet

[climenuts 115]

38 minutes ago, stief said:

Teaser of Pip and her reef lines

Guess the YT version will be up later

Looks like that stack pack would be a good place to take a nap.

[Schakel 124]

3 hours ago, Snowden said:

would be interested for someone clued up to watch this and comment. that's most on this thread, right?

 

Yep well analysed, To find a solution to this slamming is more then difficult.
Wave, boat, boat takes of and slamm....
Making boats indestructible, foiling and shorter...
But who wants to be a skipper on that?

[stief 3,452]

10 minutes ago, teamvmg said:

What is the very lightly loaded line that he adjusts with his left hand?

He answered a 6 yr old here https://youtu.be/nTNypDPGCos?t=301

 

[Laurent 1,551]

2 hours ago, European Bloke said:

My insight was that it you understand any of those things then don't spend 20 minutes of your life on the video, but if you really want to then who am I to stop you?

Agreed 100%. The guys does not know the geometry and "replicates" it from pictures, he does not know the scantling or even if it is full carbon or a sandwich and he does not know the loads. He definitely has spent a fair amount of time to do this model and shot the video, but the conclusion is that the most stressed areas are the ones with the smallest radius corners.

No shit...

[nasil2nd 88]

Thomas going fast...5 miles in 4 hours...

[SCARECROW 547]

I can't help but think Alex might have thrown out his bus ticket while cleaning up from the repairs.

[MastaVonBlasta 99]

3 minutes ago, nasil2nd said:

Thomas going fast...5 miles in 4 hours...

 

Alex T also had a really slow going last 4h...

Simon on ArkeaPaprec, Sam Davies and Louis Burton are now reaping the rewards, averaging over 13kn

Hugo Boss is not keeping up or moving up the ranks as I expected...

[Corryvreckan 168]

1 minute ago, SCARECROW said:

I can't help but think Alex might have thrown out his bus ticket while cleaning up from the repairs.

He does seem to be slow relative to most of the boats around him.  Seems to be quite a bit of compression as some of the mid-fleet catch up (e.g. Isabelle).

[teamvmg 95]

15 minutes ago, stief said:

He answered a 6 yr old here https://youtu.be/nTNypDPGCos?t=301

 

nice one, thanks

[stief 3,452]

Disappointing, but not much of a surprise. He was (and knew, IIRC?) he was skirting awfully close to the high.

[stief 3,452]

Ouch. No breaks for Beyou

[Laurent 1,551]

9 minutes ago, MastaVonBlasta said:

Alex T also had a really slow going last 4h...

Simon on ArkeaPaprec, Sam Davies and Louis Burton are now reaping the rewards, averaging over 13kn

Hugo Boss is not keeping up or moving up the ranks as I expected...

And Kevin lost 2 positions to Yannick and Boris... AAARRRGGHHHH!

[stief 3,452]

Congrats to Dalin for hanging on to the little wind there was. Looks like he will escape.

Quick glance ahead looks best for Burton; not so good for LeCam. 7 hrs to ouch-time.

[Varan 1,673]

1 hour ago, stief said:

Google must be wrong. No results found for "Jean Le Clac"

Geo blocked?

[stief 3,452]

1 minute ago, Varan said:

Geo blocked?

No . I used the quotes so Google would ignore those Jean Le Clac'h/Jean Le Calc results.

[Varan 1,673]

3 minutes ago, stief said:

No . I used the quotes so Google would ignore those Jean Le Clac'h/Jean Le Calc results.

But it's the videos Ms. Google found the we enjoy so much, clac, clac, clac.

[Varan 1,673]

BTW, y'all noticed that the black pepper boat (the future of Imoca imho, at least until full foiling is allowed) has rejoined the hungry middle pack?

Gonna be fun watching her down south.

[tama_manu 32]

Maybe Boris is getting the Greta bounce! Certainly doing well now, great to see.

[stief 3,452]

7 minutes ago, Varan said:

BTW, y'all noticed that the black pepper boat (the future of Imoca imho, at least until full foiling is allowed) has rejoined the hungry middle pack?

Gonna be fun watching her down south.

Missed that. Armel Tripon's Manuard scow bow, right? Thanks for the head's up.

[staysail 300]

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Agreed 100%. The guys does not know the geometry and "replicates" it from pictures, he does not know the scantling or even if it is full carbon or a sandwich and he does not know the loads. He definitely has spent a fair amount of time to do this model and shot the video, but the conclusion is that the most stressed areas are the ones with the smallest radius corners.

No shit...

Yes, without a fully accurate FE model it is not really possible to come to any meaningful conclusions about the damage.

All this does is illustrate to the layman that FE analysis is a technique which exists.

ATR will very likely have used it when designing the structure and will have known both the real scantlings, the actual materials properties and they will have input the loadings to their best estimates. If the analysis was competent which it probably was, then the longitudinal structure with the obviously broken parts has been overstrained massively beyond the design safety factors which I would assume would be intended to keep everything below the material elastic limits by some order of magnitude.

In short, if the boat was damaged by slamming only, the slamming impacts which caused the damage were greater than ATR expected by a very large margin.

The interesting thing to consider is that if Alex was able to give a very precise description of the cracks the ATR engineers could make a good guess as to what the fracture strains (and implied stresses) actually were when the boat failed. They could then apply these new much higher strains into the existing FE model and back-calculate what loads caused them. These being quite close to those they should actually have designed the hull for, (before applying a safety factor) so it would not have broken. 

The unfortunate side of this reasoning is that if they apply much higher loads (which they now know to be "realistic") to their FE computer model they will probably find out that many other parts of the boat will be severely overloaded by them, and the only safe way to continue sailing is at greatly reduced speeds.

[WLIS Jibing 268]

Looks like Armel is flying!  Glad he seems to be having fun!

[Varan 1,673]

21 minutes ago, stief said:

Missed that. Armel Tripon's Manuard scow bow, right? ...

Better ask the experts...

 

 

[jack_sparrow 7,462]

2 hours ago, triumph72 said:

...AT tells us that his repair may be stronger than  the original structure. Why not make the original structure more robust to begin with and carry less weight in the form of carbon bits just in case?

You forget the spares for the spares breaking. 

Spares weight is carried in locations with less impact upon performance than insitu.

Build a 9 tonne dry weight boat you will be a spectator.

[Hitchhiker 761]

Been gone for a couple of days. Anything happen?

Ran some armchair routing based on last update. Looks like Boss could well have a chance of getting back into the game if everything stays glued together!

 

[stief 3,452]

8 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Been gone for a couple of days. Anything happen?

Ran some armchair routing based on last update. Looks like Boss could well have a chance of getting back into the game if everything stays glued together!

Happy Thanksgiving. Another reason to be grateful.

Not much happened other than LO's foil damage.

Confused by the deltas shown (to Kerg, I presume). Boss 15hrs behind Apivia?

[Your Mom 967]

1 hour ago, Varan said:

BTW, y'all noticed that the black pepper boat (the future of Imoca imho, at least until full foiling is allowed) has rejoined the hungry middle pack?

Gonna be fun watching her down south.

Keep watching Charal too...  If he can get through the doldrums quickly, he'll be passing boats before too long.  They still have a hell of a long way to go.

PS...  I'm wondering if Ruyant might wind up being becalmed long enough for Burton and Davies to get to him...  The last few days have been infuriating for the leaders while the boats in positions 11-19 (and beyond) have been closing in fast.

[Hitchhiker 761]

38 minutes ago, stief said:

Happy Thanksgiving. Another reason to be grateful.

Not much happened other than LO's foil damage.

Confused by the deltas shown (to Kerg, I presume). Boss 15hrs behind Apivia?

 Likewise stief.

Yes on delta 14hrs 53mins.  I hope it holds out even for under 20 hours.  Will make the the next leg to cape Horn very interesting.  As if there hasn't been enough drama already! 

 

 

[stief 3,452]

Kojiro doesn't seem worried about his troubles:

Quote

the main sail is holding very well. Although they are not really nice to look at, The J2 and the main are holding very well.

Today the tack of the J0,5 broke.We have one less tack on board.

And I cannot use my water ballasts anymore.The snorkels are stuck.

 

[Varan 1,673]

13 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Keep watching Charal too...  If he can get through the doldrums quickly, he'll be passing boats before too long.  They still have a hell of a long way to go.

PS...  I'm wondering if Ruyant might wind up being becalmed long enough for Burton and Davies to get to him...  The last few days have been infuriating for the leaders while the boats in positions 11-19 (and beyond) have been closing in fast.

Breakdowns and the like must be less frustrating than watching your hard earned lead evaporate because of no wind. Hate that helpless feeling. Nothing you can do to fix it except be watchful, patient and ready.

Or, in Ruyant's case, attempt to fix (or cut away) your broken foil.

It's all a part of sailing, both big and small.

[jack_sparrow 7,462]

40 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

The last few days have been infuriating for the leaders while the boats in positions 11-19 (and beyond) have been closing in fast.

Compression now and if some carrying tickets punched 11 - 19 can catch a eastbound train quickly, unlike the 'Black Friday' line up at the platform now...3 fleets becomes nearly 2.

That would be a 'Thanksgiving' moment to look forward to.

[jack_sparrow 7,462]

Louis digging south trying to get Sam off his arse. These two smokies dragging each other forward.

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 765]

10 hours ago, Rtfq said:

Hugo Boss' aims are publicity from their investment. I think they've had that back 10x over.

What even is Hugo Boss/what do they sell?  I seriously only know it as a VG boat!  Guess it doesn’t matter - publicity is publicity, amd they could start selling, say, bottled drinks branded Hugo Boss, and stick up a million Internet banner ads, and I’d (statistically) be inclined to buy that bottled drink... :-)

[Left Shift 2,651]

Is the number of the breakdowns in this fleet statistically unusual?  It seems so:  Damaged foil, cracked structural beam, failed water ballast, lots of bits and pieces falling apart before the heavy going.  Seems the boat prep has been a little spotty.

4 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

What even is Hugo Boss/what do they sell?  I seriously only know it as a VG boat!  Guess it doesn’t matter - publicity is publicity, amd they could start selling, say, bottled drinks branded Hugo Boss, and stick up a million Internet banner ads, and I’d (statistically) be inclined to buy that bottled drink... :-)

Haven't been invited to a big-bucks fundraiser lately have you?  Or a Hollywood drinks party?  HB makes black tie ready, bespoke clothing.  

[Miffy 2,120]

1 hour ago, stief said:

Kojiro doesn't seem worried about his troubles:

 

Unfortunately I don’t think his buildup or his boat care abilities are up to snuff for a foiler. 

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 765]

18 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Haven't been invited to a big-bucks fundraiser lately have you?  Or a Hollywood drinks party?  HB makes black tie ready, bespoke clothing.  

Fuck that.  :-)

[stief 3,452]

25 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Unfortunately I don’t think his buildup or his boat care abilities are up to snuff for a foiler. 

"Foiler" is a useful category. Agree that Kojiro tries, but doesn't seem to join the Mr Fixit class. (Having trouble filtering for cultural attitudes, since so little experience with Japanese. Some groups downplay their troubles, some go the other way.)

[Roleur 281]

59 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Is the number of the breakdowns in this fleet statistically unusual?  It seems so:  Damaged foil, cracked structural beam, failed water ballast, lots of bits and pieces falling apart before the heavy going.  Seems the boat prep has been a little spotty.

Haven't been invited to a big-bucks fundraiser lately have you?  Or a Hollywood drinks party?  HB makes black tie ready, bespoke clothing.  

Yes. Less than normal. 8 years ago nearly half the fleet didn’t make it to the equator. 

[Miffy 2,120]

9 minutes ago, stief said:

"Foiler" is a useful category. Agree that Kojiro tries, but doesn't seem to join the Mr Fixit class. (Having trouble filtering for cultural attitudes, since so little experience with Japanese. Some groups downplay their troubles, some go the other way.)

I think the language barrier is significant- you can’t learn imoca skills having a non-sailing French to Japanese translator interpret everything. You lose 50% of your time waiting. He’s a lovable guy. I just think his goal of finishing would have been better served with a good solid 2012 edition boat. 

[Varan 1,673]

This morning, I was on the bow preparing a sail change and suddenly I looked up, just as a magnificent giant Albatross soared across the bow from behind the forestay! That is the sign! I am I the South at last. Since then, I have had Albatrosses accompanying me all day, checking my boat and I out to see if we will be fun to follow! Finally Orville and Wilbur (my foils) get to meet REAL albatrosses!

 Sam, the birder

[billy backstay 943]

48 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Fuck that.  :-)

 

Don't you recall Alex 'mast walk' video some years back, wearing a bespoke black suit?  Don't know anyone who owns a Hugo Boss suit, but most sailors know what their product is...

[Jud - s/v Sputnik 765]

31 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Don't you recall Alex 'mast walk' video some years back, wearing a bespoke black suit?  Don't know anyone who owns a Hugo Boss suit, but most sailors know what their product is...

I’ve only seen the cool Kerguelen Islands/Southern Ocean vid where he’s wearing foul weather gear and basically strolling on deck like it’s a casual day sail.  

Ok, now I just watched the mast one...I got it.  I admit I’m a terrible consumer, try to ignore most advertising, hate buying stuff I don’t need.  I certainly don’t buy bespoke suits. :-). But maybe now... :-)

Back to VG coverage...

[Zonker 2,395]

8 hours ago, samc99us said:

Generally speaking, his analysis is about as accurate as you can do from home with many, many unknowns.

He's careful to explain that there are a lot of assumptions.

In the corners you would normally patch the laminate with a few extra layers to account for the increased stresses. So the big stress concentrations you see in his model would be less than shown.

4 hours ago, staysail said:

I would assume would be intended to keep everything below the material elastic limits by some order of magnitude.

Oooh, not really an order of magnitude. Maybe a SF of ~3-4 or so I would hope because the slamming loads are so poorly known.  An order of magnitude = 10x SF.

 

[Rainier 65]

So at the last update HB is going straight downwind in 9 knots and is going 6 knots?  Losing distance to all the boats around him?  Something ain't right.....

[Left Shift 2,651]

16 minutes ago, Zonker said:

He's careful to explain that there are a lot of assumptions.

In the corners you would normally patch the laminate with a few extra layers to account for the increased stresses. So the big stress concentrations you see in his model would be less than shown.

Oooh, not really an order of magnitude. Maybe a SF of ~3-4 or so I would hope because the slamming loads are so poorly known.  An order of magnitude = 10x SF.

 

The guy in the video suggested a 5X safety factor should be employed in the design of the layup and then factoring AT's "bullisness"  thought that 2X that might be appropriate = an order of magnitude.