bigrpowr

Vendee Globe 2020

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8 hours ago, Miffy said:

He's carrying a spare rudder!

I'll wager 50 imaginary standardized economic units that PRB finishes ahead of all older boats except initiatives coeur & maliza & finishes ahead of DMG-Mori, Corum and Arkea Paprec

If it is a knock out blow.. he podiums. 

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Another couple in the series.  English subtitles mostly.

 

 

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Love they got to talk to Jean, Kevin & Clariss - but kind of funny at the forced inclusion of talking with 11th Hour for the VG. "Will you do VG?" ermmmmmmmm hahaha hahaha maybe

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Interesting details about HB. I'm slightly suspicious what would happen if TJV incident would repeat while he's sleeping - that would be hard stop and launch straight to the grinding pedestal with some potential ball damage.... 
 

 

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Better sitting in his seat than standing in a large cockpit or inside a wide interior that’s a 4 meter fall from side to side. 

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Confirmation that the start of the VG will be on November 8th as planned, but it will be "behind closed doors": only the close team of each skipper, which is in isolation the week before the start, just like the skipper, and his/her close familly will be allowed on the docks on the day of the start...

French local news TV clip below with the Vendée départment head, who is also the CEO of the Vendée-Globe organization.

 

 

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well the fleet will get the fok outa Dodge and pray that the current shit show is done by the time they finish .

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5 minutes ago, Mid said:

well the fleet will get the fok outa Dodge and pray that the current shit show is done by the time they finish .

Better hope no-one sets a record... Or the french government sets the bar pretty low.  Maybe they could do 2 laps.

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5 hours ago, Barons said:

Interesting details about HB. I'm slightly suspicious what would happen if TJV incident would repeat while he's sleeping - that would be hard stop and launch straight to the grinding pedestal with some potential ball damage.... 

His legs are aft, right?  Wouldn't he launch headfirst into whatever's behind his sleeping/nav chair?

I'm skeptical of the sliding nav monitor.  I can easily imagine having it down, drifting off, waking up in a panic, and slamming headfirst into it in my rush to get out of the seat and moving.  Possibly damaging it and/or myself.  I see their point about the ergonomics, but I don't like the idea of putting such a critical piece of equipment into the physical space he needs to pass through in an emergency situation.

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6 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

His legs are aft, right?  Wouldn't he launch headfirst into whatever's behind his sleeping/nav chair?

I'm skeptical of the sliding nav monitor.  I can easily imagine having it down, drifting off, waking up in a panic, and slamming headfirst into it in my rush to get out of the seat and moving.  Possibly damaging it and/or myself.  I see their point about the ergonomics, but I don't like the idea of putting such a critical piece of equipment into the physical space he needs to pass through in an emergency situation.

No legs are fwd facing the cockpit and instruments. 

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5 hours ago, Barons said:

Interesting details about HB. I'm slightly suspicious what would happen if TJV incident would repeat while he's sleeping - that would be hard stop and launch straight to the grinding pedestal with some potential ball damage.... 
 

 

maybe he's got a seat belt? :D

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7 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Maybe they could do 2 laps.

And just to freshen it up, they could go west on the second lap, no? That would be sporting for legacy boats, at least. ;-)

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20 hours ago, Miffy said:

Love they got to talk to Jean, Kevin & Clariss - but kind of funny at the forced inclusion of talking with 11th Hour for the VG. "Will you do VG?" ermmmmmmmm hahaha hahaha maybe

Remember, Charlie does still work for North Sails, hence the 11thHr inclusion. 

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10 hours ago, Miffy said:

No legs are fwd facing the cockpit and instruments. 

And in the video, the guy still has is knees bent (feet on the "floor") when in sleeping position, hope for Alex it can be a full length bunk, another part can be raised at the feet ? Long enough if he moves aft ?

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10 hours ago, Miffy said:

No legs are fwd facing the cockpit and instruments. 

Thanks.  I hadn't realized he was at the back of the cockpit.

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3 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

And just to freshen it up, they could go west on the second lap, no? That would be sporting for legacy boats, at least. ;-)

Sanders did 3 .

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Sam's boat visit (automatic subtitles work quite well) :

 

 

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Very good tour from Sam - also highlights the kind of generational shift Hugo Boss is doing with their cockpit. There’s a lot of duplicated instrumentation in cockpits and “living space” and the transition from inside to outside just doesn’t seem to make as much sense for foiling boats anymore  

Whenever I seen the hull tours I can’t but help think about how much stackable weight skippers are shifting side to side over and under control line-ribs-stringers-struts and how far they can fall from one tack to another. 

 

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20 hours ago, Barons said:

Interesting details about HB. I'm slightly suspicious what would happen if TJV incident would repeat while he's sleeping - that would be hard stop and launch straight to the grinding pedestal with some potential ball damage.... 
 

 

all designed by and much also built by Peter working with Alex on what Alex wants

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13 minutes ago, SSolo said:

all designed by and much also built by Peter working with Alex on what Alex wants

Definitely the boat that has updated the human-boat interaction for the changing mechanics of foiling. If it all holds together, I think AT will come out of it with fewer bruises and chipped teeth than the others with massive cockpits and interior hull living spaces.  You must be very proud

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I can’t imagine any skipper wanting to wait unless they have boat issues to work out. 

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So looking forward to this race starting it and following it closely. It will be a sorely needed bright spot In a very very strange year.  It will be great to check the tracker every couple of hours. 

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7 hours ago, Miffy said:

I can’t imagine any skipper wanting to wait unless they have boat issues to work out. 

Going early is mighty sensible this round. Last thing they need is to get stuck.
I hope they are working on that option behind the scene. Esp. now that the village is closed and the start basically without spectators.

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Doesn't the start includes a 7 day isolation period for the skippers as mandated by FFVoile and the French Government to allow the event to proceed? I assume they can't start early without permission...

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On 10/29/2020 at 9:47 PM, Barons said:

Interesting details about HB. I'm slightly suspicious what would happen if TJV incident would repeat while he's sleeping - that would be hard stop and launch straight to the grinding pedestal with some potential ball damage.... 
 

 

13 hours ago, SSolo said:

all designed by and much also built by Peter working with Alex on what Alex wants

Without meaning to disparage any of the work done by the team members, who undoubtedly have invested far longer thinking this through than the 5mins I've spent watching that video whilst drinking my 1st cup of tea of the day, but...

This is the first real bit of info from the new HB that raises concerns for me. That 'sleeping' arrangement does not look at all comfortable or particularly well contained. Alex has been known to push too hard in the past and sacrifice sleep whilst trying to 'keep the pace up' which has repeatedly caused him issues. I remeber speaking with Ross the team manager some years back about how they would get sat phone calls from Alex and he'd be completely incomprehensible and delirious from exhaustion and they would basically beg him to go to sleep because they were worried he'd do something dangerous. 

I had thought this was something the team had worked on to move past but from that video I got the impression that actual sleep/rest has been put down the priority list again...? Maybe I've completely mis-judged this? Maybe the video didn't do the set-up justice? But after all the amazing work that has gone into this boat it would be gutting if AT missed out on a win because he'd strung himself out again and made an unessecary fuck-up...

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It looked pretty good to me, I’ve slept in far more uncomfortable looking arrangements when short handing offshore 

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I really hope I'm wrong - I'm backing AT for the win but my first thought was the opposite to yours, that I had slept in much better arrangements!

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2 hours ago, NZK said:

I really hope I'm wrong - I'm backing AT for the win but my first thought was the opposite to yours, that I had slept in much better arrangements!

Keep in mind many skippers have two bunks. A "day bunk" or pilots berth, and a proper bunk for longer rests in stable conditions. Sam's video is a good example of this, with the aft-facing chair/pillow arrangement at 7:55, and the real bunk at 2:01

 

HW

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In the raw video that was deleted / privatised, there was also a standard bunk elsewhere. Early on AT commented they were trying to work out a good rest/sleeping arrangement in the batcave, I think this has good potential to allow him to rest but still have easy access to everything which might convince him to get more rest...

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Another benefit of a recumbent pedal winch - really comfy snoozing position right at the control. If you sleep walk as well you could wake up with a full accumulator!

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In the b roll video Alex had normal bunks.
IIRC there was also a shot of him sleeping on a thin mattress in one of the tunnels on either side of the cockpit. Makes sense to me, basically the same position and almost no chance to fall out of.

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On 10/30/2020 at 12:43 PM, bosshawg said:

So no pics of the modified HB foils before the pontoons were closed?

 

Boss.jpg

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Does anyone want to hazard a guess what the weather might be for the start? We all know that the wrong weather in the Bay of Biscay can be a boat breaker

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10 minutes ago, staysail said:

 

Boss.jpg

Waxing the Dali tips. :-)

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What a bitch if Capt Ron came in and moored next door. At least need some nav lights on the ends if no fences.

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23 hours ago, JL92S said:

It looked pretty good to me, I’ve slept in far more uncomfortable looking arrangements when short handing offshore 

Comparing his sleeping spot to my mini...  One resembles a guantanamo prison cell and the other a 5 star hotel bed :D

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5 minutes ago, minca3 said:

No youtube live stream?

I'm quite sure there will be a live stream on their site (YT or FB), and also on one or two main TV channels.

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1 hour ago, Puntone said:

I don't know

 

I don't know whether it will be streamed, but they are doing English commentary, so I assume it will be somewhere.... 

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On 10/31/2020 at 11:22 AM, Haligonian Winterr said:

Keep in mind many skippers have two bunks. A "day bunk" or pilots berth, and a proper bunk for longer rests in stable conditions. Sam's video is a good example of this, with the aft-facing chair/pillow arrangement at 7:55, and the real bunk at 2:01

 

HW

This is what I was expecting from HB and it does sound like this is actually the case from what was discussed about the B-roll footage with a bunk/mattress elsewhere. Maybe this chair arrangement is Alex's 'day berth'  - does seems bit risky being forward facing....

 

I saw a picture of Instagram today of fences being applied to the foils - 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHDGX86hnG6/?igshid=luwqdq9x2jbd

 

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1 hour ago, NZK said:

This is what I was expecting from HB and it does sound like this is actually the case from what was discussed about the B-roll footage with a bunk/mattress elsewhere. Maybe this chair arrangement is Alex's 'day berth'  - does seems bit risky being forward facing....

 

I saw a picture of Instagram today of fences being applied to the foils - 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHDGX86hnG6/?igshid=luwqdq9x2jbd

 

Jean le Cam also alluded to some additions to the HB foils in an interview on the Vendee-site. Could be a thing the Boss team had planned long in advance, but only wanted to implement when they were sure the foils did not have to come out again.

 

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1 hour ago, Zander said:

Jean le Cam also alluded to some additions to the HB foils in an interview on the Vendee-site. Could be a thing the Boss team had planned long in advance, but only wanted to implement when they were sure the foils did not have to come out again.

 

I wouldn’t be too surprised it there’s some high accuracy before launch foil profiling done or specialized coating before final departure. 

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19 hours ago, yl75 said:

So there does not seem to be any fences

Not theyre there. Upper 3rd quarter. 
 

Also, start will be live on France 2 or 3 and almost certainly TF1 at 13:02 of course. I also don’t think you need a VPN to watch TF1 online. France TV will most likely have Gabart golden boy commentating. 

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A cut of the Alex Thomson raw video.

 

https://www.ouest-france.fr/vendee-globe/video-vendee-globe-vivez-30-minutes-infernales-a-bord-d-hugo-boss-7028221

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Nice bit of explanation of the additions that HB have for the autopilot. And, if you can get on to HB's wifi network, you can access teamviewer easy (whatever that is), as they have left the password handy:

image.thumb.png.de2611c42ffd4da6cab76b9e1d6dce03.png

 

 

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Teamviewer is a remote administration tool for windows computers. He has quite a few computers on board and it is a way to access them.
I suppose the 5 pads in the cockpit area are just used as displays.

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On 11/1/2020 at 7:12 AM, yl75 said:

So there does not seem to be any fences

The foils are massive and very heavy - the windward one will always be extended to gain some RM from this mass. Its the leeward one that will be played with in terms of from fully out to various states of retraction.

There is talk that in certain directions and very heavy conditions - both wind and sea state - that the boat will fully retract the leeward foil. Fences, whilst desirable would prevent the ability to retract the foil and limit RM.

It is unclear whether the retraction is a means to control total RM - which in turn needs to be closely monitored - to prevent the OD mast tube from failing from excessive loading. 

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2 hours ago, Boink said:

There is talk that in certain directions and very heavy conditions - both wind and sea state - that the boat will fully retract the leeward foil. Fences, whilst desirable would prevent the ability to retract the foil and limit RM.

The way HB (and Arkea) foils retract, if we look purely at RM, it feels like past a point they actually lose RM if they retract them to the max as the top of the foil is then leaning outboard. I don't see fence as an issue for RM purposes and it doesn't look like much of the foil will be left in the water. Might even be a good thing for a tired sailor.

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The planned lives are now registered on youtube :

 

Also docking out at 8am

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Daylight to 3rd favourite. Sam shorter odds than I may've thought. 

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Pip Hare uploaded a 3 part dock walk to her YT channel.

Perhaps most interesting to me was how different rudders are. The ones on HB seemed particularly skinny and long. Or maybe it is just the perspective.
Similarly the tips of the foils across the generations. 

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16 hours ago, terrafirma said:

I would definitely have Kevin higher, more inline with Sam.  Where is Isabelle?  She should be higher than at least the bottom 4, if not even higher than that.  Corum is too high...

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2 hours ago, Roleur said:

Where is Isabelle?  She should be higher than at least the bottom 4, if not even higher than that. 

Probably too unlucky for betting. 

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5 hours ago, Roleur said:

I would definitely have Kevin higher, more inline with Sam.  Where is Isabelle?  She should be higher than at least the bottom 4, if not even higher than that.  Corum is too high...

Don't forget that odds take into account the (potential) volume of bidders. Since Sam is well appreciated, even if she is effectively battling against Kevin and Boris in the water, she was always going to get different odds as she is likely to get more bets than the other two and betting sites want to make money whoever wins. I guess the same explains why Charlie is so far back the first two despite having a very nice preparation and races prior to the VG. Bet with the mind, not the heart! (plus you get two chances to be happy depending on the winner)

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You don't want to be kept away from the boats despite the closure of the village, here are some live webcams:

Might be interesting to look at the closer to the start and see final preparations.

 

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1 hour ago, Lakrass said:

Don't forget that odds take into account the (potential) volume of bidders. Since Sam is well appreciated, even if she is effectively battling against Kevin and Boris in the water, she was always going to get different odds as she is likely to get more bets than the other two and betting sites want to make money whoever wins. I guess the same explains why Charlie is so far back the first two despite having a very nice preparation and races prior to the VG. Bet with the mind, not the heart! (plus you get two chances to be happy depending on the winner)

Bookmakers may be more objective than fans. Maybe Sam's actual event results this year, compared with others, have something to do with it?

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daily show, pip hare in english right now

Alex on the show as well

 

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30 minutes ago, yl75 said:

 

daily show, pip hare in english right now

Alex on the show as well

 

For me the only interesting information to extract from this zoom call was the simulation the HB team did regarding finishing time based on weather data from the last 40 years: min time: 59 days, max time: 90 days, average mean: 70 days

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On 11/2/2020 at 11:52 AM, terrafirma said:

ha, no bets on Thomas Ruyant. That seems a bit weird ...

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Just now, minca3 said:

ha, no bets on Thomas Ruyant. That seems a bit weird ...

Thomas Loud? (Google Translate maybe?)

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

Thomas Loud? (Google Translate maybe?)

Yeah, "Loud" = "Bruyant" in french, so something went wrong in the translation here..

Pip dock walk was fantastic, great to be able to see all the boats from up close. Aside from HB Apivia and Charal, the obvious 3 favorites, people are liking l'Occitane chances, but I would rank Thomas on Linkedout higher. He's proven he can be really fast during the last VG and the few preparation races. As pointed out in the video, his boat was originally intended for crewed races around the world, so while it may not be as optimized for the VG as Charal or HB, or groundbreaking as l'Occitane, it should be a sturdy boat that Thomas will be able to push really hard without too much fear of breakage. 

 

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Really interesting interview with Alex: 

Quote

So much more now you are just processing data, more than sailing intuitively, looking always at performance targets, sail shapes, rig loads, foil deformation rather than looking up the rig and trimming to what you see?


It is a mix of both. The data is a tool to help your understand it. We have grown up feeling it in the seat of our pants, the human brain is an amazing computer. We measure the accelerations and slamming. We started this year with a slamming limit at 1.8 to 2G and then with addition of the fibre optics in the hull we have dropped that down to 1.6g. We log the acceleration at 1hz but we set the alarm at maximum peak. But here is an example. A month ago we were going upwind quite fast and we were getting 1.3G 1.5G 1.6G and then suddenly out of the blue came a 2.5g slam. And I was sitting in front of the computer and I felt it and the alarm came up and went off. It was a massive slam and Neal was in the bunk and bunk snapped and he fell out of it. But interestingly at 1hz on the log it is not there. So, it shows you that humans can still feel things at a much higher rate. So that is the thing. Here if and when you feel something you can go into the data and see ‘is that real?’ ‘is that true?’ and that allows you to calibrate and know more about it.

 

Quote

But we look at our simulations and we look at weather from 1979 onwards and it does not matter how slow the boat goes upwind, as long as you are go faster downwind then that is the way to go. That has been our big learning from the beginning. That was the learning we used on the last boat and we have pushed it even further this time.

 

Quote

What we identified is that the human body can sense what is coming next when we are driving or steering a boat. Call that anticipation. We anticipate. And until now a pilot could not anticipate, brining machine learning on to the boat we can predict a few seconds ahead with eight or nine different variables to augment the computer. It anticipates. Before we were working with Nokia Bell Labs before the last race, sailing VMG downwind in 20kts of wind was a stressful experience, you would get the least amount of sleep, there would be broaches and so on. This time that will be when I will sleep the most.

https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/19935/alex-thomson-primed-for-take-off

 

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Gotta chuckle re the Nokia Bell Labs machine learning autopilot marketing technobabble. 

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7 minutes ago, Miffy said:

Gotta chuckle re the Nokia Bell Labs machine learning autopilot marketing technobabble. 

chuckle away ;-)  

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Pip Hare’s ‘Medallia’ looks like a handful.  The canting keel blocks, tackle and the open well are probably last of it’s type at this level?

Sails winched up at the mast.   Ouch.

 

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13 hours ago, minca3 said:

ha, no bets on Thomas Ruyant. That seems a bit weird ...

100% You would think he will be in the Podium hunt..

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IIRC it was already the last of it's kind in the previous round.
Didn't Sébastien Destremau on FaceOcean have a fixed keel? (And consequently some changed rules that made such slow boats obsolete?)

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9 hours ago, Miffy said:

Gotta chuckle re the Nokia Bell Labs machine learning autopilot marketing technobabble. 

While he’s certainly plugging a sponsor, the larger point about ML and autopilots on these boats is in fact a significant aspect to the development of all the top contenders, particularly those with foils. 

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4 hours ago, Chasm said:

IIRC it was already the last of it's kind in the previous round.
Didn't Sébastien Destremau on FaceOcean have a fixed keel? (And consequently some changed rules that made such slow boats obsolete?)

The rule was to do with the self righting abilities of the boat. I can’t remember how it’s worded but it rules out the fixed keel boats. Ironic that the new boats sail with centred keels more of the time

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On 11/3/2020 at 3:45 AM, Lakrass said:

You don't want to be kept away from the boats despite the closure of the village, here are some live webcams:

Might be interesting to look at the closer to the start and see final preparations.

 

I must say, watching the docks in Les Sables is incredibly relaxing on an otherwise crazy election day / period.  Thanks for posting.

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9 hours ago, eliboat said:

While he’s certainly plugging a sponsor, the larger point about ML and autopilots on these boats is in fact a significant aspect to the development of all the top contenders, particularly those with foils. 

“Machine learning” is marketing term for gathering data and not analyzing it and saying “aLgoRithm dOeS iT”

 

Can assure you all the imoca skippers gathering data are analyzing it. 

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