Vendee Globe 2020

[Buck Turgidson 77]

2 minutes ago, TPG said:

So diving into AIS-SART, anyone know which transceivers and plotters can understand it? Digital Yacht makes a receiver that understands it that wires in n2k.

I think most modern receivers do. 

[Laurent 1,552]

20 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

AIS PLB has Sat GPS no different than EPIRB's.

Please explain to make sure I understand. So if I got it right:

- an EPIRB will get data from GPS satellites to calculate your position AND transmit that position to a series of "low altitude" satellites that will transmit that information to terrestrial stations, if you trigger your emergency button. And there is potential delay there, because there is time between when your EPIRB transmit Mayday signal with location data to the satellite, and when that information is transmitted back to the land station.

- an AIS PLB will connect to GPS satellites to calculate your position, but will transmit that information only on the AIS-B platform, i.e. VHF frequencies; and this is "visible" only in a very local area around you (at best, knowing that you are low on the water, and with big waves).

 

Is that correct?

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

Go

50 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

From the account of JLC it seems that he found Kevin because of the light on the raft.  It doesn't seem he ever picked up the AIS signal of the PLB (unless I missed it).

AIS PLB only the first contact first guided by position from HQ.

No AIS PLB final contact as Kevin zipped up in raft trying to sleep waiting for daylight and JLC.

So AIS PLB signal screened IF it was even turned on, him knowing that.

Turned off he would have turned it ON close to planned daylight recovery . That wasn't necessary as JLC came early in the dark, guided by the strobe.

[bucc5062 148]

11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

If in one piece with keel no but snapped off probably a floater, but no longer skyward.

Kevin's comment (that I read here) was that he was not able to stay on the boat, as in swept off, from the stern which would indicate a boat going down.

Based on eye-witness reports, the bow turned 90 degrees within  x secs (lets say 4).  The main cabin was flooded almost within that time (barely got a message out before electronics died) and at or just past 2 minutes he was in the water then in a life raft.  

Y'all know so much, I get that, but reason would indicate that with that amount of volume flooded that quick, what little air pockets in the bow or stern would not have been enough to compensate for the amount of water "ingressed".  These boats are light, but not that light.  You consider a snapped keel, but there was nothing indicated from Kevin, nor did he say the rig fell.

You have a boat full of water with a mast and sail attached, foils attached, keel attached, but just snapped in half...If this thing is floating then it should be found, hauled out and inspected for why/how it snapped.  Why?  Because y'all keep talking about how this time the new foils are an "experiment" and if/when one fails...gather data.

Good guess it is like the Titanic, it found a watery grave deep in the (Atlantic?) ocean.   My 1 cent, but honestly Jack, you taught me not to speculate too much.

The boat is gone.  Kevin is not.  He and JLC are swigging wine (pure speculation, but a great image) as they await Kevin's removal and the race continues.

btw, Isabelle has eaten more into Sam's lead on her.  This sailor, if this is her first is doing amazing.  Coming round CoGH, there is still a tight race and that is very cool and fun.

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

3 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Is that correct?

You nailed it. 

[Varan 1,690]

40 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Back to the race...

It will probably take a while for us to refocus on that race. The race to save KE is still too much on our minds...

[Varan 1,690]

24 minutes ago, Wess said:

Don't think I will ever laugh at the old "front fell off" joke anymore.

 

That's okay, it'll buff out.

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

34 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

58 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

...The day they can get an approved EPIRB & AIS PLB in one small unit will be a great day. 

like this https://seaangel.at/index.php?route=common/page&id=2906

No they are AIS only. 

 

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

30 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

 

I thought you might say that. 

[The Tug 8]

Glad he is safe.But this has really fucked up this race,now the leaders can fuck off reef down and chill out.

[Buck Turgidson 77]

10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

No they are AIS only. 

 

quick before you edit again. 

 

Quote

SEAANGEL SA16+ 121,5/AIS

• All-In-One-Safety
• Exact localization through complete protection 
• Safety through alert transmission via PLB Cospas-Sarsat
• Quick help via AIS frequencies

 

[astro 724]

Amazing technology.

We can track whales, birds and ocean currents 24x7 anywhere on the planet, but can't find a guy in a life raft at night.

Anyone else think there is something wrong with this story?

[Miffy 2,122]

2 minutes ago, The Tug said:

Glad he is safe.But this has really fucked up this race,now the leaders can fuck off reef down and chill out.

If you think the boats that participated in the rescue had any shot of catching Apivia or LinkedOut in these conditions feel free to email the VG organizers your thoughts re what’s an appropriate redress. 

[Buck Turgidson 77]

2 minutes ago, astro said:

Amazing technology.

We can track whales, birds and ocean currents 24x7 anywhere on the planet, but can't find a guy in a life raft at night.

Anyone else think there is something wrong with this story?

yes, the bit in bold. 

[Yod 21]

6 minutes ago, The Tug said:

Glad he is safe.But this has really fucked up this race,now the leaders can fuck off reef down and chill out.

well the first 2 positions are secured by Charlie and Thomas anyway... The race for the podium is still on with every boat that participated to the rescue! Well... except Louis who did a a nice move here :-)

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

38 minutes ago, astro said:

42 minutes ago, Applespider said:

 The AIS signal would be on the plotter but at some point you need to get eyes on what you're looking for

I read that he could not find him and decided to loiter till dawn.  He did not now where he was till  he saw a light/

Why?

Why?

AIS PLB signal on first find. 

Not on the second find as no AIS signal.

Post #6394 you passed and just upthread #6506

"No AIS PLB final contact as Kevin zipped up in raft trying to sleep waiting for daylight and JLC.

So AIS PLB signal screened IF it was even turned on, him knowing that.

Turned off he would have turned it ON close to planned daylight recovery . That wasn't necessary as JLC came early in the dark, guided by the strobe."

[Buck Turgidson 77]

33 minutes ago, Laurent said:

Please explain to make sure I understand. So if I got it right:

- an EPIRB will get data from GPS satellites to calculate your position AND transmit that position to a series of "low altitude" satellites that will transmit that information to terrestrial stations, if you trigger your emergency button. And there is potential delay there, because there is time between when your EPIRB transmit Mayday signal with location data to the satellite, and when that information is transmitted back to the land station.

- an AIS PLB will connect to GPS satellites to calculate your position, but will transmit that information only on the AIS-B platform, i.e. VHF frequencies; and this is "visible" only in a very local area around you (at best, knowing that you are low on the water, and with big waves).

 

Is that correct?

with the caveat that even a 1w transmitter can be received by satellite if its looking in the right place. 

 

All the vessel finder type sites offer access to satellite received ASI positions but they are not 100% continuous coverage. I read a report about 10 years ago about detecting AIS SART via satellite. A number of tests were done and usable results were found. 

 

I will try and fine the report, it was US coastguard I think. 

found it https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/ais/SARTTrials.pdf

Edited December 2, 2020 by Buck Turgidson
link added.

[Buck Turgidson 77]

34 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Go

AIS PLB only the first contact first guided by position from HQ.

No AIS PLB final contact as Kevin zipped up in raft trying to sleep waiting for daylight and JLC.

So AIS PLB signal screened IF it was even turned on, him knowing that.

Turned off he would have turned it ON close to planned daylight recovery . That wasn't necessary as JLC came early in the dark, guided by the strobe.

Got to be honest, the only time I've heard JLC mention AIS it was in reference to the boat AIS on the tracker no mention of MOB. 

[astro 724]

1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why?

AIS PLB signal on first find. 

Not on the second find as no AIS signal.

Post #6394 you passed and just upthread #6506

"No AIS PLB final contact as Kevin zipped up in raft trying to sleep waiting for daylight and JLC.

So AIS PLB signal screened IF it was even turned on, him knowing that.

Turned off he would have turned it ON close to planned daylight recovery . That wasn't necessary as JLC came early in the dark, guided by the strobe."

You are making shit up.  Big IF.

Where did he say he turned it off?

So you locate someone then they disappear? 

[Varan 1,690]

Interesting review of last night. Seconds become minutes. Inflating becomes auto-inflating. Interesting. 

Edit: but the bold part below may bring tears...

"I don't know exactly, where he threw me a line with a buoy at the end which I caught. And both of us pulled it to get the life raft as close as possible to his boat, and when I was close enough I jumped and caught the back of the boat."

"He said 'Are you on board, are you on board Kevin??!' he was very happy.

I said, 'Yes I am on, I'm sorry to disturb your race Jean.' We had a big hug."

[joeboy 7]

Did it fold up vertically/longitudinal? Or break and yaw off to one side?

Did the cracks on HB indicate a longitudinal or yaw type failure? 

[Buck Turgidson 77]

5 minutes ago, joeboy said:

Did it fold up vertically/longitudinal? Or break and yaw off to one side?

Did the cracks on HB indicate a longitudinal or yaw type failure? 

It's very clear from Kevins description that it folded up vertically. 

[The Tug 8]

1 hour ago, Yod said:

well the first 2 positions are secured by Charlie and Thomas anyway... The race for the podium is still on with every boat that participated to the rescue! Well... except Louis who did a a nice move here :-)

Well there was a point where a torn sail a jammed halyard would give those fuckers out front something to think about.I take nothing away from their getaway of the confused St Helena high's, but that was position and luck of the moment.I hate to see this race defined by what happen'ed south of the Equator and now it's lost more interest with the rescue unless they have probs too..

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

46 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

1 hour ago, Buck Turgidson said:

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

...The day they can get an approved EPIRB & AIS PLB in one small unit will be a great day. 

like this https://seaangel.at/index.php?route=common/page&id=2906

No they are AIS only. 

36 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

quick before you edit again. 

 

Quote

SEAANGEL SA16+ 121,5/AIS

• All-In-One-Safety
• Exact localization through complete protection 
• Safety through alert transmission via PLB Cospas-Sarsat
• Quick help via AIS frequencies

 

 

"quick before you edit again..SEAANGEL  SA16+ 121,5 /AIS"

That is a AIS and SART only.

No EPIRB function.

Cospas-Sarsat CEASED monitoring the 125.1 and 243 MHz EPIRB frequencies over a DECADE ago. 

Your contribution here is invaluable 

 

[joeboy 7]

8 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

It's very clear from Kevins description that it folded up vertically. 

Ok, that's what I thought but sometimes the first translations get a bit wonky.

[Yod 21]

3 minutes ago, The Tug said:

Well there was a point where a torn sail a jammed halyard would give those fuckers out front something to think about.I take nothing away from their getaway of the confused St Helena high's, but that was position and luck of the moment.I hate to see this race defined by what happen'ed south of the Equator and now it's lost more interest with the rescue unless they have probs too..

sure I think that the race for the win is going to be boring... Unless Apivia has a problem, he is going to win easily! But for me the Vendee has always been interesting to follow for the races within the race. I do not really care about the winner when there's no suspense. 

I am thrilled about:

the 3rd place -  Boris, Yannick, Seb, Jean and Louis

The race between Sam and Isabelle

Is Damien going to finish on the podium??

and so much more!

[Buck Turgidson 77]

6 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

"quick before you edit again."

That is a AIS and SART only.

No EPIRB function.

Cospas-Sarsat CEASED monitoring the 125.1 and 243 MHz EPIRB frequencies over a DECADE ago. 

Your contribution here is invaluable 

 

OK darling, then explain why it uses the words "Alerting of satellite (406 MHz)" followed by "Homecoming-signal (121,5 MHz)". 

So they are developing exactly what you asked for but because I pointed it out you dismissed it immediately. 

 

Your contribution here is hilarious. 

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

27 minutes ago, astro said:

32 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why?

AIS PLB signal on first find. 

Not on the second find as no AIS signal.

Post #6394 you passed and just upthread #6506

"No AIS PLB final contact as Kevin zipped up in raft trying to sleep waiting for daylight and JLC.

So AIS PLB signal screened IF it was even turned on, him knowing that.

Turned off he would have turned it ON close to planned daylight recovery . That wasn't necessary as JLC came early in the dark, guided by the strobe."

You are making shit up.  Big IF.

Where did he say he turned it off?

So you locate someone then they disappear? 

I DIDN'T say he turned it off.

No IF, he was zippered up inside raft hence no AIS signal IF turned on.

No IF JLC  sailed away outside AIS range by agreement with Kevin. 

Randumb try trolling some other place, not here.

[Rafael 246]

C'mon fellas... enough BS please... the race has lost a lot of interest, yes, Charal back, HB out, PRB w/Neptune... but let's try to enjoy what we have...

At least we have a compact fleet in the Southern Highway, and the fat lady will sing again..., reserve yourselves and your big dicks for future songs, we're only in the first of the three Capes...

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

14 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

OK darling, then explain why it uses the words "Alerting of satellite (406 MHz)" followed by "Homecoming-signal (121,5 MHz)". 

So they are developing exactly what you asked for but because I pointed it out you dismissed it immediately. 

 

Your contribution here is hilarious. 

They and others have been in development of an AIS 406 PLB theirs using nearly the same model name you cited since 2016. It is not approved.

That is NOT the AIS SART model you cited above.

So fuck off back to your armchair.

[Buck Turgidson 77]

4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

They have been development of an AIS 406 PLB using nearly the same model name since 2016. It is not approved.

That is NOT the AIS SART model you cited above.

So fuck off back to your armchair.

Wrong again sweetheart.

link

[astro 724]

14 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

OK darling, then explain why it uses the words "Alerting of satellite (406 MHz)" followed by "Homecoming-signal (121,5 MHz)". 

So they are developing exactly what you asked for but because I pointed it out you dismissed it immediately. 

 

Your contribution here is hilarious. 

It only takes one answer to one question to see Jack knows fuck-all.

But sometimes you can salvage a chuckle out of it.

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

2 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

Wrong again sweetheart.

That doesn't open ...but if doesn't show GMDSS and national communication agency approvals don't bother reposting. 

2 minutes ago, astro said:

It only takes one answer to one question to see Jack knows fuck-all.

But sometimes you can salvage a chuckle out of it.

Two trolls fishing.

I'm no longer going to bite on your disinformation.

[Varan 1,690]

Meanwhile, back on the race course, globe, who is first to hit 600nm in 24hrs? AT stated the old Boss could do it, but I think it will need some spice, like black pepper, like Armel.

[PIL66 - XL2 883]

2 hours ago, Nixon said:

I think that there may be some transaltion / naming issues.

My understanding:

• EPIRB: Talks to COSPAS satelites on 406 MHz, may also have some low power 121.5 MHz comms for aircraft to find beacon
• PLB: Talks to COSPAS satelites on 406 MHz, may also have some low power 121.5 MHz comms for aircraft to find beacon, generally in a 'attach to body' form-factor
• AIS personal beacon: Designed to communicate with AIS systems over VHF frequencies, no satellite comms

There are units that combine the PLB and AIS - https://www.plastimo.com/en/balise-individuelle-ais-srs-safelink-r10.html

I assume all of the skippers would have something similar.

 

That is how i know it to be as well

2 hours ago, astro said:

So why did he have to see somethng as low tech as a light?

AIS in big swell can be hard to pin down.... he may have been very close with out seeing him
Random...?

[The Tug 8]

1 hour ago, Rafael said:

C'mon fellas... enough BS please... the race has lost a lot of interest, yes, Charal back, HB out, PRB w/Neptune... let's try to enjoy what we have...

At least we have a compact fleet in the Southern Highway, and the fat lady will sing again..., reserve yourselves and your big dicks for future songs, we're only in the first of the three Capes...

Na i like the sharks at the back snapping,but it looks like they boiled the fins in a soup lol!

[bucc5062 148]

Just because...there is a race...

JLC was kicking it at 17+ kts compared to Hermann''s 13 and even against the boats around YWC, he' holding his own so what ever the RO figures out, JLC is racing.

Isabelle is eating into Sam's lead and napkin calcs would put her even in 7 hours.  Viva la Franc!  Go Sam!  Pip...First time South Atlantic and she's starting to push it...

If you look past the first two boat we have a real fucking race going on even after thousands of miles.  Kevin has been saved.

Soon HB will be pulling into CT, soon Kevin will be put off either on land or on a naval vessel, but we got a bunch of boats making this race amazing to watch (and I was the guy who didn't get it last round....we can learn) so I am all about reading folks smarter take on how this will pan out. from 3 on back.

[Rafael 246]

26 minutes ago, Varan said:

Meanwhile, back on the race course, globe, who is first to hit 600nm in 24hrs? AT stated the old Boss could do it, but I think it will need some spice, like black pepper, like Armel.

11th hour racing with the old refitted HB, after some time, haven't been able to beat Alex's solo record with some crew onboard... maybe the new foilers will reach 600Nm, but he sea state is determinant and not easy to find... Tripon is smokin' at 23 Knts and has moderato sea state increasing tomorrow, as I said the new blackPepper boat is going to be really interesant to follow in the SO and is surely been observed by all the architects and boatbuilders at this precise moment.

[bigrpowr 178]

nice to open my computer and see this! i like my thread again. huge kudo's to JLC and the others who diverted, there is still some good in the world.

[The Tug 8]

I saw Tompson doing 20 toward the rescue scene,i wonder why he could'nt go into CT and repair and then hook up with Charal,or is the rudder problem a smoke screen?

[Icedtea 144]

3 minutes ago, The Tug said:

I saw Tompson doing 20 toward the rescue scene,i wonder why he could'nt go into CT and repair and then hook up with Charal,or is the rudder problem a smoke screen?

Ok once more for those at the back

 

On the side he has a rudder, he can go fast. 

 

 

On the other side he cannot. 

 

That's it. 

[sshow bob 321]

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Is that correct?

Yes, but in addition some PLB also transmit DSC signals. Both AIS and DSC are VHF. A DSC all ships alarm can be useful if there is traffic around. 

[Rafael 246]

39 minutes ago, The Tug said:

Na i like the sharks at the back snapping,but it looks like they boiled the fins in a soup lol!

I see this forum/reef more like this  Healthy ecosystem w/ fierce predators ready to swallow any poor & tasty clueless grouper...

[TPG 167]

17 minutes ago, The Tug said:

I saw Tompson doing 20 toward the rescue scene,i wonder why he could'nt go into CT and repair and then hook up with Charal,or is the rudder problem a smoke screen?

Jeremie went back directly to Les Sables and had the boat fixed right quick and got back on the course before that window closed. That is allowed. What you are proposing is not.

[astro 724]

41 minutes ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

AIS in big swell can be hard to pin down.... he may have been very close with out seeing him
Random...?

Maybe, but that is not what I read.  He had no idea.

[The Tug 8]

1 hour ago, Icedtea said:

Ok once more for those at the back

 

On the side he has a rudder, he can go fast. 

 

 

On the other side he cannot. 

 

That's it. 

So he had plates cloth epoxy and all sorts of spares,but no spare rudder blade.Are you a Tycoon a Pusscoon or a NITWIT.Hello Hello Alex did you bring a spare blade or did you leave that in preference of both foils and a mast.

[socalrider 391]

Is Thomas really a shoe in for 2nd?  Louis seems to be hauling ass and Thomas has a diminished starboard foil so will slow down on port tack (which I understand could be a while). 

[Rafael 246]

27 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Is Thomas really a shoe in for 2nd?  Louis seems to be hauling ass and Thomas has a diminished starboard foil so will slow down on port tack (which I understand could be a while). 

Ruyant has been dong pretty well on Starboard tack working w/his fucked foil... he'll have to work it out the hard way, and he's a hell of a sailor and a favourite to win the race for sure (see attached vid from 2016), alltough he will be on Port at 100% when trains catch him from behind..., if Louis does not hit UFO or any mayor problem he'll be in better conditions to claim 2nd (or 1st) yaknow in this race you must expect the unexpected

[jamhass 77]

18 minutes ago, TPG said:

Jeremie went back directly to Les Sables and had the boat fixed right quick and got back on the course before that window closed. That is allowed. What you are proposing is not.

I think, but am not 100% sure, that he could go into CT and repair, as long as he does not have any assistance, likely including no "tie-up" only anchoring allowed.  Difference with Jeremie was that he was allowed assistance, but had to restart within the allowed 10 days restart limit.

[jamhass 77]

... But, he likely used up his repair materials on his prior repair.

[Zonker 2,416]

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Please explain to make sure I understand. So if I got it right:

- an EPIRB will get data from GPS satellites to calculate your position AND transmit that position to a series of "low altitude" satellites that will transmit that information to terrestrial stations, if you trigger your emergency button. And there is potential delay there, because there is time between when your EPIRB transmit Mayday signal with location data to the satellite, and when that information is transmitted back to the land station.

- an AIS PLB will connect to GPS satellites to calculate your position, but will transmit that information only on the AIS-B platform, i.e. VHF frequencies; and this is "visible" only in a very local area around you (at best, knowing that you are low on the water, and with big waves).

 

Is that correct?

Mostly. Some EPIRBs "GPS EPIRBs" get position data from GPS satellites and broadcast that position. Locates your position very accurately (within metres)
Cheaper EPIRBs just say "help" and the SAR sats have to figure out the position. This takes longer (requires multiple satellite passes), a less accurate position, and has a larger search area (a few square km).  EPIRB's has a battery life of 48 hrs at -20F

PLBs are smaller than EPIRBs and have a battery life of 24 hrs. Just like EPIRB, some have a GPS built in, and some do not.

AIS rescue beacons have a GPS receiver to know their position and broadcast a VHF short range signal to local rescuers

Finally you can combine these categories like AIS/PLB into one device.  McMurdo has a combined EPIRB/AIS beacon...

 

 

[Miffy 2,122]

This is not the America’s Cup. If ATR is smoke and mirrors lying about rudder and ending racing like this is some Australian campaign, he’s going to lose his sponsor, lose the good will of French fans and respect of his peers. It isn’t happening. There’s a point when wishful thinking becomes trumpian election denial and that threshold was probably the weekend. 

[3to1 458]

one can always speculate.. oh wait

I dunno, hard to say, guess we'll see

[TPG 167]

3 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Mostly. Some EPIRBs "GPS EPIRBs" get position data from GPS satellites and broadcast that position. Locates your position very accurately (within metres)
Cheaper EPIRBs just say "help" and the SAR sats have to figure out the position. This takes longer (requires multiple satellite passes), a less accurate position, and has a larger search area (a few square km).  EPIRB's has a battery life of 48 hrs at -20F

PLBs are smaller than EPIRBs and have a battery life of 24 hrs. Just like EPIRB, some have a GPS built in, and some do not.

AIS rescue beacons have a GPS receiver to know their position and broadcast a VHF short range signal to local rescuers

Finally you can combine these categories like AIS/PLB into one device.  McMurdo has a combined EPIRB/AIS beacon...

 

 

AIS message is mmsi/nav status (this is where the SART declaration is)/sog/lat/long/cog/true heading/time stamp and a bunch of other shit adding up to 168 characters

[Fintho 12]

54 minutes ago, The Tug said:

I saw Tompson doing 20 toward the rescue scene,i wonder why he could'nt go into CT and repair and then hook up with Charal,or is the rudder problem a smoke screen?

My guess is that there is a problem with the 'flip-up' system of the rudder in question, ie. he hit a ufo, took the rudder out and the force of the impact also broke the mount. I think its a lot more complicated than just dropping a new rudder in, even if he is carrying one onboard (which face it, he would be).

[Rafael 246]

8 minutes ago, Miffy said:

This is not the America’s Cup. If ATR is smoke and mirrors lying about rudder and ending racing like this is some Australian campaign, he’s going to lose his sponsor, lose the good will of French fans and respect of his peers. It isn’t happening. There’s a point when wishful thinking becomes trumpian election denial and that threshold was probably the weekend. 

Indeed, he's surely now looking forward to a nice Christmas vacation w/ his family.

[3to1 458]

20 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Ruyant has been dong pretty well on Starboard tack working w/his fucked foil... he'll have to work it out the hard way, and he's a hell of a sailor for sure (see attached vid from 2016), alltough he will be on Port at 100% when trains catch him from behind, if Louis does not hit anything he'll be in better conditions to claim 2nd (or 1st) yaknow in this race you must expect the unexpected

he's earning his pay here.

[Rafael 246]

Just another busy day at the office with a little stress , he hitted a fucking container and broke the boat almost in half some hours later

[The Tug 8]

1 hour ago, Fintho said:

My guess is that there is a problem with the 'flip-up' system of the rudder in question, ie. he hit a ufo, took the rudder out and the force of the impact also broke the mount. I think its a lot more complicated than just dropping a new rudder in, even if he is carrying one onboard (which face it, he would be).

Well we don't know but it's supposed to flip up for that very reason,oh god don't tell me there is is another engineering fuckup.

[3to1 458]

btw, RIP the good ship PRB.

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

6 hours ago, Chasm said:

A call or text message from Kevin with what he thought at the time "I'm ok and in my raft. Lets try again tomorrow with more light and better weather." would have removed a lot of stress all around. Esp. when he can send a message with his GPS coordinates. Say a Garmin inReach or something similar.

"A call or text message from Kevin with what he thought at the time ....would have removed a lot of stress all around." 

Chasm the absence of that is the million dollar question.

We know.

- Distress message sent via ships Sat Broadband BEFORE he lost power and washed over board with raft.

- Sat phone in grab bag is mandatory in SI's.

- Kevin escaped with ONE of TWO grab bags and his distress case.  

SO;

1. Was phone left on board with #2 grab bag? 

OR

2. If phone IN raft, why NO calls, made or received? 

___________________________

Notes to assist answer.

Sat Phone Reception: Iridium new NEXT constellation of 66 LEO sats up as of last year so this edition best sat reception of any edition, particularly at high latitudes which are problematic 

Alternative Devices

"Say a Garmin inReach or something similar."

Two way text only devices like inReach (using same Iridium constellation) are not used (by any RO's anywhere, any Cat 0/1/2 race outside McIntyre race?) INSTEAD of sat phones as they are NOT SUPPORTED by SAR network with landline voice connection ONLY  either direct or patched from national emergency 000/999/919 etc landline numbers.

[F18 Sailor 285]

40 minutes ago, The Tug said:

Well we don't know but it's supposed to flip up for that very reason,oh god don't tell me there is is another engineering fuckup.

Damn this edition of the race has brought out a lot of newbies. I think it’s time they fuck off and show us their GF’s tits.

Once again, read up thread before posting.

And just to beat a dead horse to death:

1) We don’t know if Alex has a spare rudder blade, probably, but not a guarantee.

2) HB’s team manager came out and said that the rudder fuse system works fine, but not when fishing gear wraps around the rudder, causes it to kick up, and the fishing gear stays attached. This causes tremendous torque on the system that it is not designed for, and there really is no way to design for it.

3) There is quite possibly further damage to the linkages connecting the rudders.

4) There is a reasonable chance Alex has some or even most of the supplies to repair some of the damage, but likely not all, and even if he did you have a cascading failure (he doesn’t know for sure the bow stringer repair will hold) setting up at the entrance to one of the most inhospitable and remote locations on the planet. Not to mention the rudder repair would require many hours hanging off the back of the boat in fairly fresh conditions-I don’t think this is particularly viable. And once Alex is in Cape Town, he is managing a solo anchor in one of the busiest shipping ports in the world, spending 2 or 3 days at anchor while your closest competition is doing 500nm/day, basically ruining a chance to catchup, and therefore ending a shot at first. Oh, and Alex would be launching straight into the Southern Ocean with untested repairs done by Mr. Not a Composites Expert (but clearly he has fixed plenty of broken carbon in the last 20 years). All in all, not a particularly smart decision from a risk management perspective.

 

 

[ALL@SEA 247]

1 minute ago, The Tug said:

Well we don't know but it's supposed to flip up for that very reason,oh god don't tell me there is is another engineering fuckup.

 

10 minutes ago, samc99us said:

Damn this edition of the race has brought out a lot of newbies. I think it’s time they fuck off and show us their GF’s tits.

Once again, read up thread before posting.

And just to beat a dead horse to death:

1) We don’t know if Alex has a spare rudder blade, probably, but not a guarantee.

2) HB’s team manager came out and said that the rudder fuse system works fine, but not when fishing gear wraps around the rudder, causes it to kick up, and the fishing gear stays attached. This causes tremendous torque on the system that it is not designed for, and there really is no way to design for it.

3) There is quite possibly further damage to the linkages connecting the rudders.

4) There is a reasonable chance Alex has some or even most of the supplies to repair some of the damage, but likely not all, and even if he did you have a cascading failure (he doesn’t know for sure the bow stringer repair will hold) setting up at the entrance to one of the most inhospitable and remote locations on the planet. Not to mention the rudder repair would require many hours hanging off the back of the boat in fairly fresh conditions-I don’t think this is particularly viable. And once Alex is in Cape Town, he is managing a solo anchor in one of the busiest shipping ports in the world, spending 2 or 3 days at anchor while your closest competition is doing 500nm/day, basically ruining a chance to catchup, and therefore ending a shot at first. Oh, and Alex would be launching straight into the Southern Ocean with untested repairs done by Mr. Not a Composites Expert (but clearly he has fixed plenty of broken carbon in the last 20 years). All in all, not a particularly smart decision from a risk management perspective.

 

 

Thank you. That was more succinct and eloquent than what I was just typing. 

[Bristol-Cruiser 990]

2 hours ago, Rafael said:

C'mon fellas... enough BS please... the race has lost a lot of interest, yes, Charal back, HB out, PRB w/Neptune... but let's try to enjoy what we have...

At least we have a compact fleet in the Southern Highway, and the fat lady will sing again..., reserve yourselves and your big dicks for future songs, we're only in the first of the three Capes...

I agree. This race is just nicely started. Dalin has more than 17,000 nm still to go.

[AnotherSailor 252]

3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Go

AIS PLB only the first contact first guided by position from HQ.

No AIS PLB final contact as Kevin zipped up in raft trying to sleep waiting for daylight and JLC.

So AIS PLB signal screened IF it was even turned on, him knowing that.

Turned off he would have turned it ON close to planned daylight recovery . That wasn't necessary as JLC came early in the dark, guided by the strobe.

Not sure if I follow completely, but are you suggesting the PLB might have been turned off to preserve energy?

 

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

9 minutes ago, AnotherSailor said:

Not sure if I follow completely, but are you suggesting the PLB might have been turned off to preserve energy?

Was not going to work zippered up inside raft and shielded by body for 2nd contact, so MAYBE he turned it off until daylight. then planning to turn on. Regardless NO AIS signal anyway. 

[astro 724]

Jean: "What the fuck?  You ate the last block of chocolate you greedy cunt!"

Kevin: "Chill Jean, you want me to starve?  I was doing you a favour, there is only one gluten free wrap left, it's your's.  See how good I am to you?"

Jean: "Grrrr......"

[astro 724]

3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Was not going to work inside raft so maybe turned it off. Regardless no decent AIS signal anyway. 

You got no idea have you?

So full of attention whoring shit.

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

Drawing of a dick and and a mouth. 

[kastlzp 4]

Sparrow and Astro, please stop.  There is a race going on that I want to hear about.

 

[Rafael 246]

9 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I agree. This race is just nicely started. Dalin has more than 17,000 nm still to go.

[Sea Breeze 74 504]

We all joke about only stepping up into a life raft. In this case it appears to be actually that.

[TheDragon 432]

Burton is doing an astounding job of staying just in front of the low he is riding, doing 20 knots in 22 knots of wind. Might be able to ride it for quite a while and on a shorter course get a lot closer to Apivia. A real race here.

[Sea Breeze 74 504]

17 hours ago, Marty6 said:

It didn't sink in second more like minutes. Otherwise Kevin wouldn't have been able to get the survival suit on, send text message and get into life raft. I think the seconds refer to the water coming into the hull.

You're absolutely right. Seconds for the boat to break in half, a few minutes (2-4?) to get into the life raft with survival suit on. I got a bit caught up in the hyperbole 

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

40 minutes ago, kastlzp said:

Sparrow and Astro, please stop.  There is a race going on that I want to hear about.

I already have.

3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Two trolls fishing.

I'm no longer going to bite on your disinformation.

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

22 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

We all joke about only stepping up into a life raft. In this case it appears to be actually that.

Well actually washed off clutching it might be a first. 

[astro 724]

3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm no longer going to bite on your disinformation.

and I promise I will only put the head in ...

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

29 minutes ago, TheDragon said:

Burton is doing an astounding job of staying just in front of the low he is riding, doing 20 knots in 22 knots of wind. Might be able to ride it for quite a while and on a shorter course get a lot closer to Apivia. A real race here.

Certainly is.....got better too since breaking up with Sam. 

[blunderfull 441]

For perspective on JLC’s seamanship on the KE rescue we were yakking about Rich Wilson & Steve Pettingill’s 1990 rescue off the Horn which was a nighttime event too. 
 

JLC’s solo effort all the more remarkable.

”We do this now.”      Legend.

 

 

 

“He and one shipmate would tackle the clipper ship record set by Northern Light in 1853 during the Gold Rush from San Francisco to Boston by way of treacherous Cape Horn. They would be linked by newsletter and radiotelephone to schools during the 15,000-mile non-stop voyage. Their voyage around Cape Horn would become part of maritime lore. Four hundred miles short of Cape Horn, driving under bare poles for three days in seas that built to 65 feet (official estimate), the 60′ trimaran Great American capsized on Thanksgiving Day. In a first in recorded maritime history, the massive trimaran was then thrown upright by the sea an hour later. Seventeen hours later, in a dramatic midnight rescue, the giant containership New Zealand Pacific rescued Rich and shipmate Steve Pettengill.”

Miracles happen.

 

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

10 hours ago, Haji said:

10 hours ago, Bebmoumoute said:

 

  https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1333845894756708353?s=20

How cool is that?

Very cool.

I had a look at Brit PM Johnson's Twitter feed to see if Alex had received something similar.

No such luck....so the Brits have disowned him and regard him as German....but there is nothing from Merkel either?  Alex it seems is now a national orphan. 

Maybe AT is not the first VG orphan in the eyes of their national leader???

The question is did the 1st American to finish the VG in the 2004 edition in a boat called 'Ocean Planet' recieve a Presidential telegram from George Jnr?? All the more notable because of Mike Plants tragic 'no start' in the edition before. 

Now maybe a GOP President from the fossil fuel energy rich state of Texas thought to himself, 'fuck this bloke', when he saw the environmental energy 'strap lines' attached to this Americans choice of boat name??

I might have to research that. 

I might be wrong but I think 'Ocean Planet' was the first VG boat christened with the environment in mind? Next edition in 2008 there was a handfull and it has consolidated ever since as a source of sponsor funding to get more boats to the VG start line.

Ironically the 2008 race started on the first weekend in November after US election day. That was when the GOP's candidate and his loopy running mate from Alaska were kicked to the kerb by voters in favour of a more earthly party and more earthly coloured leader.

You can never seperate politics and the VG. 

[PIL66 - XL2 883]

3 hours ago, Rafael said:

Ruyant has been dong pretty well on Starboard tack working w/his fucked foil... he'll have to work it out the hard way, and he's a hell of a sailor and a favourite to win the race for sure (see attached vid from 2016), alltough he will be on Port at 100% when trains catch him from behind..., if Louis does not hit UFO or any mayor problem he'll be in better conditions to claim 2nd (or 1st) yaknow in this race you must expect the unexpected

Note, no runners on and not urgent on timing of winding the new runner suggesting it's not essential for the rig... great speed gybe .... absolutely cooking here.  Hitting anything at this speed it's easy to see why it's catastrophic   

1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

We all joke about only stepping up into a life raft. In this case it appears to be actually that.

"We" don't joke about it..... but these days many abandon well before it's necessary
As @Jack Sparrowpointed out in this case it was a just in time deal....  
Very impressed with Isabelle at this point....  

[shanghaisailor 1,177]

13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe it's also the media. The UK mainstream media isn't exactly renoun for its work.

Finally CNN have included it in the 'Top News' section of their app

[shanghaisailor 1,177]

8 hours ago, Corryvreckan said:

Ha - now I've gone and wasted an hour goofing off watching old VOR videos!

You're right that the VOR footage was awesome, and the tech  to make yacht racing a spectator sport has increased dramatically.  I remember an old America's cup that was just helicopter footage of two sailboats going in a straight line.  So when the 2000(or thereabouts) AC put cameras on the boats, it was much more engaging.

But (and forgive me if this might seem like I'm moving the goalposts), even the best sailing footage is hard for a general audience to understand just by watching it.  It's not that people couldn't understand sailing - Cricket and the NFL draw huge audiences, and they're nigh-incomprehensible.  It's probably just a matter of critical mass - cricket and NFL fans learned it at the knee of Dads who were fans.  Sailing is way behind that curve, outside of places like France.  Even with the new video tech, it's likely going to be a long slow process to engage more non-sailing spectators.

Like Rafael said upthread, everyone has a car, and can understand an F1 crashing into a wall and exploding into flame.  I rewatched the Vestas grounding and I suspect that most non-sailors would just see a bunch of guys stumbling around in the dark and swearing.  The boat accident that did make the news this week was Florida Man here.  Not a story of great seamanship, but the picture is dramatic.

PS.  I haven't been to the W coast of Scotland (yet).  I chose the name after a very nice single malt that I can only afford to drink on special occasions.

Sorry about that. I must admit I am a bit of an anorak and have all the Whitbread/VOR  official videos on disk. I use bits of them when i am called on to do presentations here in China to help grow our sport here but it is incredible how the quality of the footage has improved over the years.

Careful, people go to to the West Coast of Scotland in their boat for a fortnight and stay for years. Even Princess Anne had Blue Doublet 4 or 5 moorings down the trot from us at Ardfern. If you were drinking a malt as 'special' as Corryvrekan it was surely a very fine malt indeed. Islay is my favourite. I remember once sailing down there, headed towards the shore using Lagavulin as a navigation point (I kid you not), anchored 400m beyond Ardbeg on golden sand in 4m of water (no tidal height to worry about there) then a friend drove us past Laphroig (Prince Charles favourite apparently) and spent the afternoon at Bowmore drinking 18 year old (in bond) with the distillery manager who was a friend of a friend - heaven!

Back on thread, i completely agree with you. What is needed alongside the coverage is a good commentary which explains what is happening in a non-condescending manner. Those who stand out n my memory are the likes of Bob Fisher, obviously the likes of Peter Montgomery who has been called the voice of the America's Cup, the chap who commentates the start of the Sydney Hobart (he will curse me for forgetting his name. I was also impressed by the calm way Ken Read described the action during the San Francisco AC.

Having said all that, there are experienced racers who don't seem to understand all the nuances of the racing rules so perhaps a long journey ahead to bring it to the masses.

6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

AIS PLB has Sat GPS no different than EPIRB's.

I think Nixon is correct - AIS Personal Beacon doesn't  actually communicate with the satellite, it is a VHF system. It therefore has a range limited by the usual VHF parameters. Moot point perhaps, as long as it works. 

SS

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

32 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Maybe it's also the media. The UK mainstream media isn't exactly renoun for its work.

Finally CNN have included it in the 'Top News' section of their app

Shang I guarantee it is not a lead story in your China Daily let alone the People's Daily or Enlightenment Daily 

[jack_sparrow 7,464]

10 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

AIS PLB has Sat GPS no different than EPIRB's.

I think Nixon is correct - AIS Personal Beacon doesn't  actually communicate with the satellite, it is a VHF system. It therefore has a range limited by the usual VHF parameters. Moot point perhaps, as long as it works. 

Mate not moot...a AIS PLB won't work unless it works out WHERE on planet earth it is floating courtesy of talking with a GPS sat, then send that position out on the AIS VHF band. It can't do that by magic. 

[shanghaisailor 1,177]

1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Shang I guarantee it is not a lead story in the China Daily let alone the People's Daily and Enlightenment Daily 

Evening Jack. Sailing seldom is. The Round Hainan Regatta might get a mention though with only 5 of the 33 strong (better call that weak) fleet surviving a night of 40 gusting 45 with shredded sails and blown halyards apparently the main cause of retirements. From what i have heard so far a combination of (cheap) non-UV resistant thread  in the sails and insufficient checking and maintenance on the cordage - Hainan is tropical and the UV is a bitch down there.

Back to the thread, just relieved Kevin is OK - such a nice guy.

SS 

[shanghaisailor 1,177]

8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mate not moot...a AIS PLB won't work unless it works out WHERE on planet earth it is floating courtesy of talking with a GPS sat, then send that position out on the AIS VHF band. It can't do that by magic. 

Still - as i said, as long as it works. Difference being that it send a position based on GPS rather than a course speed and distance from the AIS receiver. It is a moot point because the reception by the rescuing craft is entirely ultimately dependant on the propagation of a (weak) VHF signal and the reception of that VHF signal by rescue craft and a big wave will reduce that effectiveness whether it is an AIS PLB or an AIS Personal Beacon. Not disagreeing about the position fixing ability of the AIS PLB.

[b3nharris 84]

7 hours ago, shaggybaxter said:

I was thinking about this last night, is this one of those times when we belatedly realise we've introduced a new force into the equations?

Kevin is obviously no fool, and his comment about 'inversion' from the foils is quite interesting.

If I was on a foiler, I'd be somewhat obsessive about not slacking off on your hull inspection routine after this. We didn't see Imocas folding in half in the last race, what did we change? 

I am hoping the longer wave period in the SO would lessen this risk...but it's the southern ocean. Not a nice place to be testing hull integrity      

You get that impression from the interview with Vincent Riou (posted up thread). Has to have been something completely outside any modelling. Did wonder if PRB had any data from sensors which might help, but given the speed of the sinking and Kevin describing the electrics getting fried this seems unlikely.