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Vendee Globe 2020

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48 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thanks Chay. That might pull him up ....however I doubt it. :D

lol. Quick go edit a few of your posts while he's looking at the link to the page which specifically say 406 ;-)

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24 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

I will email the manufacturer out of interest and see if they have developed an EPIRB/AIS in PLB. I would have thought though that combining all that functionality would have the two challenges of size/weight and battery life - just guessing though.

Number of manufactures have had it sorted since 2016. 

However a roadblock. 

National Communications Authority approval with dual bands using one antenna in such a small form is the sticking point.

The biggest stickler to-date just happens to be the world's largest recreational market necessary to underwrite manufacture ......yep the US. Check that date and join the dots. :D

Until that hurdle is overcome then GMDSS  compliance goes no where. 

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14 hours ago, staysail said:

Radical greens don't understand anything. That is the problem with them.

Went fishing, caught 2! Ha ha!

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23 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

Shang, There are several waterproof cases available for your iPad Pro, including the ubiquitous Otterbox, as well as Overboard and Aquapack, amongst others; sadly,, several of my devices have in fact gone overboard. 

Thanks despacio - much appreciated

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32 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:
1 hour ago, littlechay said:

This is the page and device that you mention SA 16+ 121,5/AIS (seaangel.at) It makes no mention of 406MHz EPIRB functionality.. Because it doesn't have it.!!!!! Jack is right the only thing monitoring 121.5MHz these days are SAR choppers and if you are lucky and sinking in the North Atlantic an old commercial jet with a 121.5MHz beacon receiver might fly overhead; but I don't know if any of those dinsoars are still in service. 

Sorry mate but I even put a link next to the picture which is THIS so Jack is in fact wrong. 

28 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:
1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thanks Chay. That might pull him up ....however I doubt it. :D

lol. Quick go edit a few of your posts while he's looking at the link to the page which specifically say 406 ;-)

 

Posts CAN'T be edited after 30 minutes idiot.

Your link is to a brochure dated 2016 and a piece of equipment never manufactured. Why? No approvals. You were told that.  

Toddle off troll and hump  someone else's leg. 

21 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Number of manufactures have had it sorted since 2016. 

However a roadblock. 

National Communications Authority approval with dual bands using one antenna in such a small form is the sticking point...

..Until that hurdle is overcome then GMDSS  compliance goes no where. 

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31 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

Every commercial jet flying the Atlantic(and everywhere else) is monitoring 121.5 (or they should be) It's guard.  They won't be able to home but that's not their job. They will however be able to give position when they first and last received the signal. When enough do that it can be used to fix an initial datum for search by MPA. Which can home to a 121.5 signal. 

 

Every oceanic region...

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9 hours ago, Nixon said:

There are units that combine the PLB and AIS - https://www.plastimo.com/en/balise-individuelle-ais-srs-safelink-r10.html

Unless I'm mistaken that is an AIS PLB. Not an (406MHz) EPIRB PLB. Having GPS just means it can send useful data over AIS.

 

9 hours ago, Herman said:

Btw the personal EPIRB is called a Personal Locator Beacon or PLB. The difference is that an EPIRB has transmitter that can reach satellites and can thus relay a mayday worldwide to a station that will alert boats in the vicinity. A PLB is an small AIS device and has a limited coverage, as the PLB / AIS is at sea level, and has smaller power. And with a rough seastate the signal can be extra hindered. Normally AIS antennes are on top of the mast which provides, depending on mast height, weather/seastate and inclination of the boat, for a class B AIS a coverage of roughly 10-15 nm. A PLB in a rough sea at sea level would be a couple of miles if you are very lucky imho. 

PLB is an overloaded term.

There are 406MHz EPIRB PLB's, the only difference to your boat PLB is the battery life requirements, they typically only last a few hours as opposed to a mandated 48hours. Aussies love them and are mandated for offshore racing there. Then there is also AIS PLBs which you explain the problems with very well, however they also have a succinct benefit in that you can get the signal locally (even if that is as you say only a few miles) unlike an EPIRB PLB which requires being related via satellite.

For the Volvo Ocean Race I believe each crew carried an 406 EPRIB PLB, and 2 AIS PLBs (one in the life jacket, one in the survival pouch) these are typically much smaller, and I believe they carried the Ocean Safety MOB ones.

 

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An EPIRB is part of GMDSS, is registered to a specific boat and can be triggered automatically. 

A PLB is not part of GMDSS, is registered to a person and is not allowed to be triggered automatically. 

An AIS PLB, I guess you know what it is... 

I carry a PLB and AIS PLB in my life vest. No need for all that fuzz. 

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11 hours ago, Dog said:

Interesting...It's not hard to imagine that circumstance generating huge loads. Maybe the foils need to be sacrificial.

Alternative solution is to make the foil structure torsionally responsive, so lift in either direction causes the foil to twist and reduce angle of attack. Then preload the twist for the upward lift direction so at the operating condition it is very stiff in torsion for upward lift, but very flexible in torsion for downward lift.

The foil can then only create lift in the upwards direction.

Benefit of this, rather than a control system, is the structural response of the carbon foil matches the millisecond time frame required by the slamming event.

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:
2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mate that isn't how a AIS transmitter works. It won't work without GPS...

AIS VHF signal does NOTHING except act as the carrier of the data packet.

Not disagreeing but it doesn't comunicate with the GPS, it only recieves information. Communication implies a two way transmission. 

Hey Jack, we are just splitting hairs :-) 

Shang actually it is not 'splitting hairs' it is a fundamental misunderstanding on your behalf on how AIS works. I wouldn't press  the point but it is unintentionally misleading and not an inconsequential subject.

As I said what you are describing is how VHF RDF operates. VHF RDF and VHF AIS devices are like chalk and cheese. 

 

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30 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Posts CAN'T be edited after 30 minutes idiot.

Your link is to a brochure dated 2016 and a piece of equipment never manufactured. Why? No approvals. You were told that.  

Toddle off troll and hump  someone else's leg. 

lol.

Go back to the first post about this. You will see that I gave the link as an example of what you were describing, a compact combined EPRB +AIS. The rest of this ridiculous debate has only been about whether the example I gave was 406 or not. It is. 10 hours later you have decided it's not about 406, it's about certification. Nice. 

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1 hour ago, Buck Turgidson said:

Sorry mate but I even put a link next to the picture which is THIS so Jack is in fact wrong. 

Every commercial jet flying the Atlantic(and everywhere else) is monitoring 121.5 (or they should be) It's guard.  They won't be able to home but that's not their job. They will however be able to give position when they first and last received the signal. When enough do that it can be used to fix an initial datum for search by MPA. Which can home to a 121.5 signal. 

 

Check the specs for the actual manufactured product.. not the mythical mockup :) MATE.

Your commercial jet info is older then your brochure... Why don't you just admit you don't know what you are talking about Mr. Turdsson. 

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4 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Check the specs for the actual manufactured product.. not the mythical mockup :) MATE.

Your commercial jet info is older then your brochure... Why don't you just admit you don't know what you are talking about Mr. Turdsson. 

ICAO beg to differ.

Quote

6.2 INTER-PILOT AIR-TO-AIR VHF FACILITY 123.450 MHZ AND EMERGENCY FREQUENCY 121.5 MHZ

6.2.1 The frequency 121.5 MHz should be continuously monitored by all aircraft operating in the NAT region so as to be prepared to offer assistance to any other aircraft advising an emergency situation.

 

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

Not disagreeing but it doesn't comunicate with the GPS, it only recieves information. Communication implies a two way transmission. 

Hey Jack, we are just splitting hairs :-) It works so it works but is still dependant on the VHF signal which is short range, especially at the power a PLB gives out and so easily degraded. But it all helps. At the end of the day it was an old fashioned flashing light that Jean le Cam spotted.

Not sure about that but I have been investigating plotters in China as mine which was a gift from Navionics for helping them source Chinese charts yonks ago only accepts the old cards which were about an inch square and a couple of mm thick (sorry for the mixed measurements). A bit of a bugger as the unit still works fine but there have been so many changes in Chinese waters like marinas. ports, even islands that a 15 year old electronic chart is probably not recommended.

A couple of companies do units that accept the modern flash drives and combine all the functionality of a plotter driven by the same software so fully compatable and include an AIS A transponder. External GPS aerial only but a 10" plotter is under a thousand US. AND it's weatherproof to the usual standards - I was amazed.

I searched the usual suspects on line though Cactus Nav and the like and couldn't find a mainstream western manufacturer that combines the 2 functions in this way.

Plus, for my own personal interests there is no import duty on the unit. Or i might just keep using my iPad Pro as it is surprisingly accurate - not waterproof though

I will email the manufacturer out of interest and see if they have developed an EPIRB/AIS in PLB. I would have thought though that combining all that functionality would have the two challenges of size/weight and battery life - just guessing though.

If you want Chinse have a look at the stuff from these guys ONWA Marine Electronics Co. Ltd. - it is actually good value for money.  I have installed a few units that clients have self sourced. 

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7 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

ICAO beg to differ.

 

Oh dear.. You are struggling... What part of 121.5 Beacon reciever don't you understand.. Try reading that again paying particular attention to "inter pilot air to air". As I mentioned in my first post.. if any old aircraft are still equiped with a beacon monitor they might hear it. ..... only if they are equipped with it. 

While you are at it look up NAT region and note how much of it overlaps the Vendee race track. 

 

Perhaps this will help educate you.. a very quick Google seach brings this up; which summarises what you have been told above... Dec08TheEndIsNearFor1215MHz.pdf (aea.net)

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10 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Oh dear.. You are struggling... What part of 121.5 Beacon reciever don't you understand.. Try reading that again paying particular attention to "inter pilot air to air".

While you are at it look up NAT region and note how much of it overlaps the Vendee race track. 

I know exactly what a 121.5 beacon sounds like as I've spent many an hour homing onto it. You clearly don't know what it sounds like.  Inter pilot air to air is 123.45 I use it frequently. And the requirement to monitor guard is not restricted to NAT. 

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The PRB boss, Jean-Jacques Laurent, has announced PRB will stay as Kevin Escoffier' sponsor for the Vendee 2024.

 

It will be interesting to see whether they will try to build a new boat, but I recall an interview a couple of years ago when he said PRB was too small a company to fully sponsor a brand new competitive foiler. Maybe they could do it with another partner...

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Here is a lot of confusion around terms. To avoid the confusion we need to look at this in historic aspect:

EPIRB - (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) are detected by GOSPAS-SARSAT (over 406MHz). Historically these didn't have GPS and the location was calculated by measuring the doppler effect. The important part is that their message carries the identification of the ship (MMSI) so that the flag country could coordinate the rescue. These used to have homing transmitter (on 121.5 MHz) for SAR as the doppler effect is not accurate enough and can give hours of delay until enough satellites fly over. After GPS was more widely accepted then the homing transmitter was not needed any more.

PLB - (Personal Locator Beacon) works in the same principle as EPIRB but without the ship identification. The aim is to make it small enough so it can be carried by a person all time. It can be used on land as well. There are strict rules how PLBs are sold as the serial number is dependent of the country who will coordinate the rescue. The weak point compared to proper EPIRB is the battery size. 

MOB devices - usually SART AIS or DSC devices. These were developed much later than the PLB. So don't mix it, this is confusing! There is still no standard agreed and most of the plotters don't show any alert if they receive coordinates over AIS or DSC from such kind of devices. AIS can be used for marking buoys or fishing nets in similar way. 

 

I had questions - what did Kevin actually use and was it helpful? Did he deploy his PLB or he actually carried a spare EPRB? Main one should be automatically deployable. We know that he had SART AIS beacon but was it helpful. From one of the interviews I read that he thought that Jean found him so quickly first time because of that. But why had he relay on visual search on second time? Does Jean use the AIS receiver at all?

And one interesting thought - satellites are capable of tracking AIS nowadays. Can they pick up SART AIS as well? Or this is technically too challenging as the signal is much weaker? 

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2 minutes ago, pilot said:

From one of the interviews I read that he thought that Jean found him so quickly first time because of that. But why had he relay on visual search on second time? Does Jean use the AIS receiver at all?

Yep, this is the mystery.

Something really odd about these reports.

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17 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

I know exactly what a 121.5 beacon sounds like as I've spent many an hour homing onto it. You clearly don't know what it sounds like.  Inter pilot air to air is 123.45 I use it frequently. And the requirement to monitor guard is not restricted to NAT. 

There is no requirement to fit 121.5MHz gear... if you have it you must monitor it. 

Yea I know what it sounds like.. However the beacon receivers are not normally listend too.. you confusing homing and the SAR alert system that used to exist once upon a time. 

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4 minutes ago, pilot said:

I had questions - what did Kevin actually use and was it helpful? Did he deploy his PLB or he actually carried a spare EPRB? Main one should be automatically deployable. We know that he had SART AIS beacon but was it helpful. From one of the interviews I read that he thought that Jean found him so quickly first time because of that. But why had he relay on visual search on second time? Does Jean use the AIS receiver at all?

And one interesting thought - satellites are capable of tracking AIS nowadays. Can they pick up SART AIS as well? Or this is technically too challenging as the signal is much weaker? 

Reading between the lines I think he carried the nearest one, which I'd expect to be the main one (automatically deployable is not so useful when you are not next to the boat anymore), and although he carried his EPIRB PLB it was the AIS MOB device that Jean used to find him initially, but then lost the signal in the 5m waves.

Satellites are capable of tracking AIS but its hugely dependant on the class of AIS, I would guess the signal is too weak, it certainly never showed up on Marine Traffic but they could well not buy that data / filter it out.

 

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7 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Sebastien Simon (Arkea-Paprec) hit a floating object this morning, starboard foil doesn't look good.

https://www.teamarkeapaprec.com/actualites/160/arkea-paprec-heurte-un-ofni

 

 

 

f1.jpg

f2.jpg

Quote

As he was sailing in 4th position in the Vendee Globe, 436 nautical miles from leader Charlie Dalin, Arkea Paprec hit a floating object with the starboard foil. Skipper Seb Simon quickly inspected the damage and notified his shore team. The starboard foil is damaged. The foil bottom wedge (not sure here), i.e. the connection between the foil and the hull and the foil box are no more structurally bonded to the boat. Sebastien is currently working hard to get the situation under control before the strong winds coming tonight. He put the boat on its side to limit the water ingress, which importance is not known yet.

 

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13 minutes ago, pilot said:

Here is a lot of confusion around terms. To avoid the confusion we need to look at this in historic aspect:

EPIRB - (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) are detected by GOSPAS-SARSAT (over 406MHz). Historically these didn't have GPS and the location was calculated by measuring the doppler effect. The important part is that their message carries the identification of the ship (MMSI) so that the flag country could coordinate the rescue. These used to have homing transmitter (on 121.5 MHz) for SAR as the doppler effect is not accurate enough and can give hours of delay until enough satellites fly over. After GPS was more widely accepted then the homing transmitter was not needed any more.

PLB - (Personal Locator Beacon) works in the same principle as EPIRB but without the ship identification. The aim is to make it small enough so it can be carried by a person all time. It can be used on land as well. There are strict rules how PLBs are sold as the serial number is dependent of the country who will coordinate the rescue. The weak point compared to proper EPIRB is the battery size. 

MOB devices - usually SART AIS or DSC devices. These were developed much later than the PLB. So don't mix it, this is confusing! There is still no standard agreed and most of the plotters don't show any alert if they receive coordinates over AIS or DSC from such kind of devices. AIS can be used for marking buoys or fishing nets in similar way. 

 

I had questions - what did Kevin actually use and was it helpful? Did he deploy his PLB or he actually carried a spare EPRB? Main one should be automatically deployable. We know that he had SART AIS beacon but was it helpful. From one of the interviews I read that he thought that Jean found him so quickly first time because of that. But why had he relay on visual search on second time? Does Jean use the AIS receiver at all?

And one interesting thought - satellites are capable of tracking AIS nowadays. Can they pick up SART AIS as well? Or this is technically too challenging as the signal is much weaker? 

A PLB is required to have a 121.5 homing signal as well. EPIRBS are not required to have the 121.5 but may. 

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1 hour ago, Geert said:

An EPIRB is part of GMDSS, is registered to a specific boat and can be triggered automatically. 

A PLB is not part of GMDSS, is registered to a person and is not allowed to be triggered automatically. 

No need for all  that fuzz

The fuzz unfortunately determines what is a GMDSS compliant vessel or not.

Devices aren't legally GMDSS compliant and there is no such thing as a GMDSS compliant 406 PLB equiped person. However 406 PLB's are subject to country by country regulations parallel with EPIRBs and overarching international treaties that allow them to use the GMDSS system. 

Yes you have identified the glaringly obvious regulatory differences.

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10 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Sebastien Simon (Arkea-Paprec) hit a floating object this morning, starboard foil doesn't look good.

https://www.teamarkeapaprec.com/actualites/160/arkea-paprec-heurte-un-ofni

 

 

 

f1.jpg

f2.jpg

not just a foil problem... note the comment about inflow of water!

 

The low hold (low support point of the foil, junction between the foil and the boat) and the foil well (it is in this well that the foil crosses the boat) are no longer in solidarity with the boat. Sébastien is doing everything possible to control the situation especially in anticipation of the strong seas and the strong wind to come next night. He laid down the boat to limit the inflow of water, the importance of which is not yet known.

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12 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Sebastien Simon (Arkea-Paprec) hit a floating object this morning, starboard foil doesn't look good.

https://www.teamarkeapaprec.com/actualites/160/arkea-paprec-heurte-un-ofni

 

 

 

f1.jpg

f2.jpg

from the press release: "The starboard foil was damaged. The low hold (low support point of the foil, junction between the foil and the boat) and the foil well (it is in this well that the foil passes through the boat) are no longer attached to the boat."

That does not sound good. 

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37 minutes ago, littlechay said:
43 minutes ago, Buck Turgidson said:

ICAO beg to differ.....

Oh dear.. You are struggling..

Turgid struggling with the truth. 

Chay you have hooked a bullshitting troll. 

I hope you have lots of gear. :lol:

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Looks like garbage will put an end to these races,

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3 minutes ago, b3nharris said:

Merde. That doesn't look great. Slightly surprised (in a good way) he could retract the foil with all that damage. 

If I am interpreting the photo correctly that is the trailing edge that would have been inside the foil well at the time of impact and crushed against the aft part of the guide/clamp. The outer part of the foil is probably/possibly in better condition. 

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20 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

The PRB boss, Jean-Jacques Laurent, has announced PRB will stay as Kevin Escoffier' sponsor for the Vendee 2024.

 

It will be interesting to see whether they will try to build a new boat, but I recall an interview a couple of years ago when he said PRB was too small a company to fully sponsor a brand new competitive foiler. Maybe they could do it with another partner...

Full interview here: https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/course-au-large/vendee-globe/vendee-globe-jean-jacques-laurent-patron-de-prb-encore-plus-fou-que-dans-un-scenario-de-film-f8a85b20-33cc-11eb-9204-2edc242a4188?fbclid=IwAR2qEWK72GZacN_gcj4XbBamIl7oLijXnSLLCwmtPPt62hVZUPON8sdwb0M

Sorry I don't have time for translation.

His last reply is: We will sponsor Kevin for 2024, but we will be looking for another partner to join us to get Kevin a competitive boat, he deserves it.

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9 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Sebastien Simon (Arkea-Paprec) hit a floating object this morning, starboard foil doesn't look good.

https://www.teamarkeapaprec.com/actualites/160/arkea-paprec-heurte-un-ofni

 

 

 

f1.jpg

f2.jpg

Shit,  doesn't sound good, google translate from the link above 

 

"The starboard foil is damaged. The low wedge (low fulcrum of the foil, junction between the foil and the boat) and the foil well (it is in this well that the foil crosses the boat) are no longer attached to the boat...

...He laid the boat down to limit the entry of water, the importance of which is not yet known. "

 

My take is that he was running on port at about 17 knots, hit something,  started taking on water.  Tacked over to starboard to stop the water ingress (keel down to get boat to lie over). Storm is coming.  

 

At best end of a competitive race...

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Turgid struggling with the truth. 

Chay you have hooked a bullshitting troll. 

I hope you have lots of gear. :lol:

I'm cutting my gear free and letting him go..... I'm off to bed. Amusingly I am prepping a commercial boat for radio survey tomorrow ;)

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13 minutes ago, littlechay said:

There is no requirement to fit 121.5MHz gear... if you have it you must monitor it. 

Yea I know what it sounds like.. However the beacon receivers are not normally listend too.. you confusing homing and the SAR alert system that used to exist once upon a time. 

No I'm not. 

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6 minutes ago, b3nharris said:

Agreed. Compared to some of the other boats he almost looks comfortable. 

Will the pot plant that is under the screen survive the southern ocean? I think this maybe the true test of how the boat goes 

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English articles: https://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/20733/arkea-paprec-hits-ofni-and-damages-starboard-foil-and-casing

Quote

The lower wedge at the entry point (where the foil rests and is linked to the boat) and the foil housing (where the foil goes inside the boat) are no longer attached to the boat itself. 

That sounds serious, I hope he can get that water tight again or it might be another skipper abandoning :o will be keeping my fingers crossed for a fix.

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21 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

Sebastien Simon (Arkea-Paprec) hit a floating object this morning, starboard foil doesn't look good.

https://www.teamarkeapaprec.com/actualites/160/arkea-paprec-heurte-un-ofni

 

 

 

f1.jpg

f2.jpg

And I thought "once they are in the (not so) SO they are out of the garbage belt and at least safe from hitting stuff". Feeling sorry for the young guy, with the foil well detached the foil exit hole will become a giant water leak, sounds like game over for me.

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30 minutes ago, Bebmoumoute said:

The PRB boss, Jean-Jacques Laurent, has announced PRB will stay as Kevin Escoffier' sponsor for the Vendee 2024.

 

It will be interesting to see whether they will try to build a new boat, but I recall an interview a couple of years ago when he said PRB was too small a company to fully sponsor a brand new competitive foiler. Maybe they could do it with another partner...

Having Kevin as skipper would hopefully help with that situation, especially after the latest publicity.

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16 minutes ago, astro said:

Looks like garbage will put an end to these races,

Well it'll stop you going on about whales. ;)

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Question for the navi-nerds...

Burton is approx 200nm south of Ruyant. He can thus carry less speed to stay in the same longtitude. What is the differential? (alternatively, how much faster does Ruyant have to go to keep up?)

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8 minutes ago, tallyho said:

Question for the navi-nerds...

Burton is approx 200nm south of Ruyant. He can thus carry less speed to stay in the same longtitude. What is the differential? (alternatively, how much faster does Ruyant have to go to keep up?)

calculator here

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1 hour ago, littlechay said:

If you want Chinse have a look at the stuff from these guys ONWA Marine Electronics Co. Ltd. - it is actually good value for money.  I have installed a few units that clients have self sourced. 

Thanks - they were one of the companies whose sales manager i have been talking to and i agree it looks pretty sweet, especially for the price.

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1 minute ago, tallyho said:

Thx... so approximation but Burton has a 4-5% advantage

But Burton is going to have to head north to avoid the exclusion zone, which will force their latitudes to converge. At this point there is probably naff all advantage in it.

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For the newbies (welcome) to the VG with interest in old stuff,

1989: Loïck Peyron to the rescue of Philippe Poupon

This is the very first rescue in the history of the Vendée Globe. A rescue that went around the world since it was fully filmed by Loïck Peyron, who came to the rescue of Philippe Poupon. The latter sees his sailboat turned upside down after 33 days of racing. Peyron manages to tow the boat and then straighten it. A miracle that will be well worth a 2nd place for the hero. An episode which will also greatly contribute to making the Vendée Globe a myth.

Around 3 min the rescue, at 10 min old style mast climbing, and more fun in this low quality vid.
Every edition had an outstanding performance...

 

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 Burton really did well on speed and weather routing. Almost every one gybing, he straight lined it. Saved a lot of energy...
And yes, family by wife of Kevin.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Shang actually it is not 'splitting hairs' it is a fundamental misunderstanding on your behalf on how AIS works. I wouldn't press  the point but it is unintentionally misleading and not an inconsequential subject.

As I said what you are describing is how VHF RDF operates. VHF RDF and VHF AIS devices are like chalk and cheese. 

 

I do understand AIS needs an accurate (satellite provided) fix in order to work

Doesn't change the fact that as a Frequency Modulation (FM) radio signal Marine VHF is the weak link.

2 REAL EXAMPLES:

1. I could be broadcasting on FM 4W (back in the day and my buddy round the corner couldn't hear me while on Upper Side Band which was 27W Amplitude Modulation (AM) I could speak to the East Coast of the USA from Middle of Olde England. Of course the skip helped. 

2. I also had an instance where i performed a Mayday relay for a boat on the shore as the Coastguard couldn't hear him. I was perhaps just a mile closer to the Coastguard station and they received me 5 x 5. I suppose he might have been on a hand held at 1W while i had a masthead antenna but that was only 21-23 feet up (little boat) at full power but heavily heeled (it was blowing 7s and 8s at the time) - i don't know but these two examples illustrate IN REAL CIRCUMSTANCES FM's disadvantage - it is easily blocked.

That is the only point i am making - that VHF is not as reliable as many people seem to think.

Not disagreeing with you Jack - I wouldn't dare ;)

 

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Weather update

How models can be wrong on a local/boat scale shows pics 1 and 2, with the projected wind direction and speed, compared to a ship actual. ECMWF and GFS both have it at 21-22 kts, actual is 36 kts. Wind direction is OK.

Pics 3 and 4 give the EUMETSAT and ECMWF wind continental overview.

So Dalin and Ruyant have dropped-off the LP 1. And have a couple of hours before the next LP 2 comes in. The fleet behind them already enjoy riding LP 2, except for JLC/Escoffier and Herrmann, who seem to far north to get more pressure/wind atm. Burton looks very well positioned for riding that LP 2.

Further behind, Tripon and others to his north are enjoying LP 3. At the end of the fleet are light winds, between the SACZ (orange line) and the expanding St Helena HP (HP 1) which is restoring to it's full glory. Blocking a quick route below South Africa around Wednesday. 

Sea state for the top-3 boats is currently 4,2 up to 4,6 meters. 

Routing to the Ilses Kerguelen is still a good virtual waypoint, except for Ruyant, see pic 5. I routed to another virtual waypoint just beyond the second cape, Cape Leeuwin, at Virtual WP 44° 50' S 120° E. This is 70 nm above the AEZ v2. All boats pass The Keguelen Islands, except for Ruyant who is projected to go far to the north and than going due south. The climate plugin did not seem to provide valid data either. 

The routing table is in pic 6. Which shows a compression of the fleet behind Dalin with the ETA's at the 12th, minimum a day later in ETA than Dalin. Ruyant is projected latest of that group, without adjusted polars for missing foil. Port/starboard track projected for him is 23/77%, so actual ETA will be even later than projected now. The western part of the pack has better wind angles projected. Only Cremer and Attanasio are f*cked by the St Helena HP,  4 days later in ETA than Dalin. And beating a lot. Could be five tacks for Cremer.

Dalin is expected to have a bad sea state again when nearing The Kerguelen Islands at Friday, see pic 7. This could slow him down considerately, or drive him further north than now projected. The other boats do get a slightly better projected sea state. 

I wondered why Burton was not projected earlier than the rest of the pack, but he should be beating 7% of the trip. Bad polar wind angle. Other boats like Davies enjoy more reaching conditions, and an other routing enabling getting before other boats like Le Cam/Escoffier. See pic 8 for projected tracks for Davies versus Burton. In which the lateral separation is quickly declining at Friday as Burton is forced further to the NE. If the GFS holds up. We'll see.

Pic 9 and 10 are the routings for Dalin and JLC.

 

2051474870_ECWMF021220.thumb.jpg.5916885140ffe7cec16dddfb851cdde8.jpg325492261_GFS021220.thumb.jpg.25b2744c5ccb02e97530ee7eced9e643.jpg

EUMETSAT 021220.jpg

ECMWF 021220 compressed.jpg

Weather routing virtual WP 021220.jpg

Weather routing table 021220 Kerguelen.png

Sea state Dalin Friday afternoon near Kerguelen.png

Burton versus Davies 021220.jpg

Dalin 021220.png

JLC 021220.png

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1 minute ago, cortosam said:

Ofni means whale ? I heard they kill a lot of marine animals sailing thoses races

OFNI = Objet Flottant Non Identifie = Unidentified Floating Object

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Just now, Bebmoumoute said:

OFNI = Objet Flottant Non Identifie = Unidentified Floating Object

Yep, i know, but i don't think they would advertise anyway the fact they destroy a foil killing a whale or something 

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It can be anything cortosam... why a whale ? at the surface there is more junk, natural (like wood blown of coats during storms) or artificial, than any marine mammal

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Looks a bit too sharp for whale. Unless the damage in foil is due to it being pushed into its housing, seems to me that it hit something hard and heavy enough to break the carbon. 

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27 minutes ago, Herman said:

Other boats like Davies enjoy more reaching conditions, and an other routing enabling getting before other boats like Le Cam/Escoffier. See pic 8 for projected tracks for Davies versus Burton. In which the lateral separation is quickly declining at Friday as Burton is forced further to the NE. If the GFS holds up.

I hope you're right .... Sorry for Thomas but very good news for Isabelle and Sam. 

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9 minutes ago, cortosam said:

Ofni means whale ? I heard they kill a lot of marine animals sailing thoses races

and take great pride in it.

jesus fuck off noob

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10 hours ago, PIL66 - XL2 said:

Random...?

Yup. You and Jack called it. Same MO as Randum. 

-- doesn't post any content. (TBH, I think there was something 3 years ago)

--trolls many forums and threads, usually PA sewers.

--asks inflammatory questions, like "So what you're saying is [insert deliberate misinterpretation] . .. "

--never cares about the answers, only wants to wind up chumps who will bite 

-needy, hoping to be seen as worthy.

--Worthy of the ignore button.

 

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So funny, if somebody yells something stupid on the street, you just pass them, and do not engage them. But on the internet we (not all) act differently...

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36 minutes ago, Herman said:

So Dalin and Ruyant have dropped-off the LP 1.

Impressed they hung on so long. 

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1 minute ago, LeoV said:

So funny, if somebody yells something stupid on the street, you just pass them, and do not engage them. But on the internet we (not all) act differently...

 

internet_vs_reality.gif

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1 hour ago, tallyho said:

Question for the navi-nerds...

Burton is approx 200nm south of Ruyant. He can thus carry less speed to stay in the same longtitude. What is the differential? (alternatively, how much faster does Ruyant have to go to keep up?)

Worth keeping an eye on, advantage can get quite substantial

new.png.3e865c3629a6b9b47fb221dc5e275683.png

*updated to nautical miles

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

1989: Loïck Peyron to the rescue of Philippe Poupon

This is the very first rescue in the history of the Vendée Globe. A rescue that went around the world since it was fully filmed by Loïck Peyron, who came to the rescue of Philippe Poupon. The latter sees his sailboat turned upside down after 33 days of racing. Peyron manages to tow the boat and then straighten it. A miracle that will be well worth a 2nd place for the hero. An episode which will also greatly contribute to making the Vendée Globe a myth.

Around 3 min the rescue, at 10 min old style mast climbing, and more fun in this low quality vid.
Every edition had an outstanding performance...

Thanks for digging that up--hadn't see it. The incident triggered the self-righting test?

cringed at the fire( https://youtu.be/RidxlQTw-7I?t=534 )

 

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23 minutes ago, Barons said:

Looks a bit too sharp for whale. Unless the damage in foil is due to it being pushed into its housing, seems to me that it hit something hard and heavy enough to break the carbon. 

That's the trailing edge of the foil where it mashed against the opening in the hull.

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1 minute ago, Bluebear said:

they should realy work on avoidance systems for the next race

read the entire thread and research before you post and embarrass yourself.

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21 minutes ago, stief said:

Yup. You and Jack called it. Same MO as Randum. 

-- doesn't post any content. (TBH, I think there was something 3 years ago)

--trolls many forums and threads, usually PA sewers.

--asks inflammatory questions, like "So what you're saying is [insert deliberate misinterpretation] . .. "

--never cares about the answers, only wants to wind up chumps who will bite 

-needy, hoping to be seen as worthy.

--Worthy of the ignore button.

 

Ignore feature getting a good workout this week, though for some reason sometimes they still feature on the feed... And then then people quote them!

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1 minute ago, stief said:

read the entire thread and research before you post and embarrass yourself.

obsiously OSCAR and pinger did not work this time 

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43 minutes ago, LeoV said:

So funny, if somebody yells something stupid on the street, you just pass them, and do not engage them.

Depends what street what country.

The same comment could range between generating nothing, an unscheduled visit to the dentist, then hospital and large misunderstandings the mortuary. Overlaid with mistaken identity in places like Tijuana Mexico, could first involve a search party to track down your body parts before the mortuary bit. 

In my street you will get your hub caps filled up with prawn shells. 

Being a deaf mute on the street has its advantages. 

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1 minute ago, staysail said:

All that aside, it would be interesting to see a photo of the leading edge of Arkea's foil.

yeah should've not the leading edge suffered?

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4 minutes ago, steinbrenner said:

yeah should've not the leading edge suffered?

Quite probably too far down the foil to see in a photo taken from the deck with the board up.

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19 minutes ago, stief said:
21 minutes ago, Bluebear said:

they should realy work on avoidance systems for the next race

read the entire thread and research before you post and embarrass yourself.

Maybe sometime in the future an essential ingredient is a real time UFO model tied to actual environmental conditions such as wind and current and over the last month.

That shows for any time and place the risk of collision with UFO's. The more extreme, the risk reward curve dictates you slow right down and go to 'minimum appendages down' mode. If not, you aren't going to make it.

The UFO boffins might say it safer running behind a front in the SO than in front of it. 

Hope I'm dead if that ever happens. 

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54 minutes ago, TPG said:

and take great pride in it.

jesus fuck off noob

That what Alan Roura told me when i met him at the Fastnet, moron

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That is really rough for Sébastien Simon - he was doing well to this point and was diverted to help with the KE rescue.  I wish him the best (and most importantly, that he remains safe). 

If I am remembering correctly, Arkea had some issues with her foils before the race (I believe at least two sets were broken), and installed V3 foils about two weeks before the start.  (https://sailinganarchy.com/2020/10/22/time-is-tight/) .  There was some concern here that the new foils were untested.   Somewhat ironic that the starboard foil is now broken, but it might have had nothing to do with how it was constructed or designed (it might just be bad luck).  Until now, Arkea seemed to be well placed for a good finish.     

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Man, go to sleep and miss a lecture on radios and emergency devices.  The stuff you learn on the internet.

Regards the race, I feel an Agatha Christie quote seems apt..."And then there were none".  The not so SO seems to be taking its pound of flesh, or carbon fiber as it were, on top racers.  Dalin best be praying he's going so fast King Neptune can't get a lock (yet).  Still loving the race between Isabelle and Sam.  Isabelle seems to have started to dial in her boat though I guess Sam started to hear the pounding of a bow coming up from behind and has tried to kick it up a notch (I know that sound and feeling, it rarely helps).

I review Herman's work and while it is pretty amazing, it can seem overwhelming in information.  Heman, you mentioned Davies Burton, but do your projections show a passing point between MACSF and Coeur.  I had projected 7 hours based on last night's speeds when it was 50 nm distance, now it's down to 20 with MACSF still holding better pace.

I do hope Paprec can effect repairs, but from the sound of the report it will be more along the line of keeping the boat afloat till he can make port.

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JK boats/JK modified boats are apparently cursed in the southern ocean?

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