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kent_island_sailor

A troubling theory on Turkey from Romney

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/17/mitt-romney-raises-very-troubling-theory-about-trump-turkey/

But while that line will get a lot of play, there’s something else Romney said that shouldn’t escape notice. He also floated a theory about how Trump arrived at the decision: that he got bullied into it by Turkey and that he backed down.

“It’s been … suggested that Turkey may have called America’s bluff, telling the president they are coming no matter what we did,” said Romney, of Utah. “If that’s so, we should know it. For it would tell us a great deal about how we should deal with Turkey, now and in the future.”

Romney then returned to the idea that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan might have given Trump an ultimatum that was met with acquiescence. “Are we so weak and inept diplomatically that Turkey forced the hand of the United States of America? Turkey!?” Romney said. “I believe that it’s imperative that public hearings are held to answer these questions, and I hope the Senate is able to conduct those hearings next week.”

>>>>

I heard Trump on the radio yesterday doing about everything but give Erdogan a blowjob live. I can't say what mental illness causes Trump to be such a beta-cuck whenever confronted with some dictator or dictator-lite, but it certainly would rank as one of our more embarrassing moments in history to run away from Turkey.

Trump's new plan for the DOD:

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1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

He also floated a theory about how Trump arrived at the decision: that he got bullied into it by Turkey and that he backed down.

  1. Who gives a flying fuck what the mormon prick thinks?
  2. That's really funny. Like really, really funny. I guess President Trump is a Russian, Chinese Ukrainian, Turkish stooge now.

 

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4 minutes ago, shubrook said:
  1. Who gives a flying fuck what the mormon prick thinks?
  2. That's really funny. Like really, really funny. I guess President Trump is a Russian, Chinese Ukrainian, Turkish stooge now.

 

We finally agree on something.

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15 minutes ago, shubrook said:
  1. Who gives a flying fuck what the mormon prick thinks?
  2. That's really funny. Like really, really funny. I guess President Trump is a Russian, Chinese Ukrainian, Turkish stooge now.

 

He's just a stooge, period

That's what happens when you go bankrupt a dozen times (how dumb do you have to be to go bankrupt running a casino?) and tell bankers "Fuck you, gimme more money" and end up sucking oligarch dick

Here's a talking point you might enjoy: "Trump's great triumph of strategy in Syria is almost a HUGE a success as his negotiations with Kim Jong Un"

- DSK

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14 minutes ago, inneedofadvice said:

We finally agree on something.

He left out Korean :rolleyes: He'll bend over for pretty much anyone that looks like a strongman shithead dictator type that he wishes he could be if only he had the attention span to write Mein Kampf instead of badly spelled Covfefe tweets :lol:

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This is all there is to why Trump caved

  1. Trump has property in Istanbul
  2. Erdogan knows Trump always acts in his own self interest
  3. The two had a phone conversation
  4. Trump ordered our troops to leave

Everyone knows Trump is open to any deal that will benefit him.  Our adversaries don't need dirt on him.

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4 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:
I heard Trump on the radio yesterday doing about everything but give Erdogan a blowjob live. I can't say what mental illness causes Trump to be such a beta-cuck whenever confronted with some dictator or dictator-lite, but it certainly would rank as one of our more embarrassing moments in history to run away from Turkey.

Trump is a run of the mill bully - they always back down when stood up to - even if it's just by a bigger or stronger bully.

It's all just psychological - and Trump has a very weak psyche.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Trump is a run of the mill bully - they always back down when stood up to - even if it's just by a bigger or stronger bully.

It's all just psychological - and Trump has a very weak psyche.

IMHO bullies have a soul-gnawing endless fear someone will do to them what they do to everyone else. OF COURSE Democrats want him impeached and jailed, that is exactly what they would have done to Hillary if she won. Duh!

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FTM

Follow the Money.

Trump would not even pick up the phone unless there is some way he or his immediate family benefit financially.

Every dicktator in a tin pot shithole knows this, they know he admires their ability to get things done without any checks and balances, oh so you want to do a development, well there’s a large tract of land that’s just become available down the road, could be win/win wink wink.

Ever noticed a bully will rarely pick a fight with another bully, they will always go for someone weaker.

If I was on the house investigation team I would want to see every conversation that trump has had directed to the code word server, I would be sure it would be like opening Pandora’s box and I feel sure many of the conversations stored there would have Donnie with some explaining to do.

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On 10/18/2019 at 1:29 PM, Jules said:

This is all there is to why Trump caved

  1. Trump has property in Istanbul
  2. Erdogan knows Trump always acts in his own self interest
  3. The two had a phone conversation
  4. Trump ordered our troops to leave

Everyone knows Trump is open to any deal that will benefit him.  Our adversaries don't need dirt on him.

Trump has property in Istanbul?    I'm with ya on the rest of your comments, but, I don't think that the 1st is accurate.   Agreeing with those observations, I still think that there's some decision calculus that hasn't yet come to light.  

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Trump has property in Istanbul?

He gets $1 million a year in licensing fees from the Trump Tower Istanbul. His family met with Erdogan before he ran for President to curry favor for the deal.  Everything revolves around Trumps businesses. FFS the orange sphincter wanted to develop a "tourism" zone in North Korea.

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21 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Trump has property in Istanbul?    I'm with ya on the rest of your comments, but, I don't think that the 1st is accurate.   Agreeing with those observations, I still think that there's some decision calculus that hasn't yet come to light.  

3-PHOTOGRAPHERSEDAT-ANTAYedit-2edit.1506

"Ask not, what your country can do for you...." 

 

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12 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

3-PHOTOGRAPHERSEDAT-ANTAYedit-2edit.1506

"Ask not, what your country can do for you...." 

 

It's a Trump License - but, Trump Inc doesn't own that.    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Towers_Istanbul   

IMHO?  I honestly don't think that the paltry licensing fee that property generates is something that he'd spend much time on.  But, he has demonstrated the propensity to make things seem much more important than they really are, while concurrently ignoring the things that really are important. 

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 Bullying by Turkey or smart move by Trump?

It's not like we had a standing army  It was 28 - 50 advisers   I have a problem with using a small amount of Americans as a shield between hostile forces.

I can only imagine the news stories if a group of Americans were killed by a Turkish strike and the media learned that the administration knew that bombing was imminent, based on a phone warning.  Would the call be that we should go to war against Turkey or would it have been Trump's an idiot because he didn't pull our soldiers back.

It's clear with the current relationship between Trump and the Media it would be the latter in capital letters on every MSM outlet.

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5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

IMHO?  I honestly don't think that the paltry licensing fee that property generates in licensing fees is something that he'd spend much time on. 

:lol:

Trump doesn't own many propertys outright - Doral is one of the few. Most are leased or he gets a licensing $ or yada yada.

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3 minutes ago, The Joker said:

 Bullying by Turkey or smart move by Trump?

It's not like we had a standing army  It was 28 - 50 advisers   I have a problem with using a small amount of Americans as a shield between hostile forces.

I can only imagine the news stories if a group of Americans were killed by a Turkish strike and the media learned that the administration knew that bombing was imminent, based on a phone warning.  Would the call be that we should go to war against Turkey or would it have been Trump's an idiot because he didn't pull our soldiers back.

It's clear with the current relationship between Trump and the Media it would be the latter in capital letters on every MSM outlet.

So we ran away when threatened by Turkey like I said.

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4 minutes ago, The Joker said:

 Bullying by Turkey or smart move by Trump?

It's not like we had a standing army  It was 28 - 50 advisers   I have a problem with using a small amount of Americans as a shield between hostile forces.

I can only imagine the news stories if a group of Americans were killed by a Turkish strike and the media learned that the administration knew that bombing was imminent, based on a phone warning.  Would the call be that we should go to war against Turkey or would it have been Trump's an idiot because he didn't pull our soldiers back.

It's clear with the current relationship between Trump and the Media it would be the latter in capital letters on every MSM outlet.

Help me understand your perspective w/r/t the bolded part - that's a common means to leverage force, as that "small amount of Americans" isn't an isolated entity, it's a reachback to a much larger an potent force.   

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He doesn't have a perspective he has cut and pasted taking points. And you are a gullible fool gobbling up rightwing bullshit from that divisive dumbass AGITC.

sweet fucking jesus rightwing posters here are stupid.

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10 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

He doesn't have a perspective he has cut and pasted taking points. And you are a gullible fool gobbling up rightwing bullshit from that divisive dumbass AGITC.

sweet fucking jesus rightwing posters here are stupid.

Jiblets - you've got your koolaid, now, go back to the children's table.   He expressed an opinion, and whether you like it or not means nothing, because, as usual, you offer nothing of substance, just attempts to get the kids to "hate him because *I* do". 

 

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24 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Help me understand your perspective w/r/t the bolded part - that's a common means to leverage force, as that "small amount of Americans" isn't an isolated entity, it's a reachback to a much larger an potent force.   

I  have no way to know what went down - I think the whole Kurdish pull out was handled poorly. 

I was reacting to Romney's thought that Turkey stated that they were coming no matter what and Trump backed down.   The point I was making was should we have left our soldiers in harm's way esentially daring Turkey to back down.   

And what the media's reaction would be in hindsite If American lives were lost because Turkey ignored the fact that Americans were in the middle.   Would we go to war if Americans were killed in a Turkish attack on the Kurds?

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

I  have no way to know what went down - I think the whole Kurdish pull out was handled poorly. 

I was reacting to Romney's thought that Turkey stated that they were coming no matter what and Trump backed down.   The point I was making was should we have left our soldiers in harm's way esentially daring Turkey to back down.   

And what the media's reaction would be in hindsite If American lives were lost because Turkey ignored the fact that Americans were in the middle.   Would we go to war if Americans were killed in a Turkish attack on the Kurds?

Thanks for explaining your thought.   I think that Turkey coming "no matter what" - with our troops in the area, would have generated an immediate defensive US military response that would have curtailed that invasion.   We would have also put pressure on Erdogan from Incirlik and Izmir.  If Trump had held ground - he would have forced diplomacy, because there's no way that Turkey would want to initiate a shooting war against the US, and the whole of NATO would come down on him. 

 

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4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Jiblets - you've got your koolaid, now, go back to the children's table.   He expressed an opinion, and whether you like it or not means nothing, because, as usual, you offer nothing of substance, just attempts to get the kids to "hate him because *I* do". 

If I were at the kids table I'd be sitting next to donnie shitstain defending him like your buddy the joke is doing, coming up with all kinds of retroactive justitifications for President catfood brain. Do you really want to defend  Trump? Or his defenders? https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/21/inside-trumps-first-pentagon-briefing-229865

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9 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

If I were at the kids table I'd be sitting next to donnie shitstain defending him like your buddy the joke is doing, coming up with all kinds of retroactive justitifications for President catfood brain. Do you really want to defend  Trump? Or his defenders? https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/21/inside-trumps-first-pentagon-briefing-229865

I don't want to Godwinize this - that's not my intent at all - but reading that link made me think that it must have been similar to what German Generals experienced when dealing with Hitler later in the war.

Complete and total clueless incompetence - in the top job.

 

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5 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Thanks for explaining your thought.   I think that Turkey coming "no matter what" - with our troops in the area, would have generated an immediate defensive US military response that would have curtailed that invasion.   We would have also put pressure on Erdogan from Incirlik and Izmir.  If Trump had held ground - he would have forced diplomacy, because there's no way that Turkey would want to initiate a shooting war against the US, and the whole of NATO would come down on him. 

Would that have been a military first? Turkey attacking a country with huge bases inside Turkey?

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23 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Would that have been a military first? Turkey attacking a country with huge bases inside Turkey?

Kind of like a UK vs. USA war breaking out in 1944?

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“I have a little conflict of interest because I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump said in 2015. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two,” Trump said in an interview with Stephen Bannon, then chairman of Breitbart News.

The doors to Trump hotels admit all sorts of persons, luggage and proposals. What is handed over in those rooms is completely opaque to the American public.

The power of the presidency, the lack of ethics and morals of this president and the opportunity for graft and fraud are incredible.

Just last week, Vanity Fair reported on $3.5 BILLION in day trades made off presidential decisions regarding tariffs and other major decisions. It’s not clear who made these trades, but is anyone really surprised if insider trading might happen with this administration?

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6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Thanks for explaining your thought.   I think that Turkey coming "no matter what" - with our troops in the area, would have generated an immediate defensive US military response that would have curtailed that invasion.   We would have also put pressure on Erdogan from Incirlik and Izmir.  If Trump had held ground - he would have forced diplomacy, because there's no way that Turkey would want to initiate a shooting war against the US, and the whole of NATO would come down on him. 

 

On the other hand, is america going to risk a shooting war with Turkey for the sake of some mercenaries?

No. Of course not. That's why people use mercenaries.

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8 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

So we ran away when threatened by Turkey like I said.

Yeah, it could happen.

Of course, entering into a war with a long-standing NATO ally who wants to protect their border from armed terrorists isn't something America would stand for.

What would you do when Turkey invoked Article 5?

There's a lot of shit involved there that is above both our pay grades.

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So now Rommy's opinions are the truth according to dems. Fuck me how the world changes. One could almost be forgiven for thinking it is purely driven by whether it is for or against Trump and the content means nothing.

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2 minutes ago, Gissie said:

So now Rommy's opinions are the truth according to dems. Fuck me how the world changes. One could almost be forgiven for thinking it is purely driven by whether it is for or against Trump and the content means nothing.

Well, he was a SecState wannabe.

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19 minutes ago, Gissie said:

So now Rommy's opinions are the truth according to dems. Fuck me how the world changes. One could almost be forgiven for thinking it is purely driven by whether it is for or against Trump and the content means nothing.

Not true and you’re not forgiven.

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17 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Not true and you’re not forgiven.

Is it only his comments that support the hatred of Trump then. His other stuff is still the utterance of the devil.

As for you not forgiving me on thinking you might be a rather shallow person, I am sure I will survive.

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7 hours ago, Gissie said:

So now Rommy's opinions are the truth according to dems. Fuck me how the world changes. One could almost be forgiven for thinking it is purely driven by whether it is for or against Trump and the content means nothing.

YA think?

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

YA think?

No. Bullshitters have to skew the line between fact and opinion. One is entitled to one’s own opinion, but not one’s own facts. If Romney’s opinion is founded upon facts, it is a valid opinion. If it is grounded upon bullshit, it is a bullshit opinion. 

Pretty simple if you live in a fact based reality instead of faith based. Otherwise, just another stop being mean to Trump when he sucks and bullshits meme....

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12 hours ago, El Boracho said:

Would that have been a military first? Turkey attacking a country with huge bases inside Turkey?

I'm not well read on Ottoman history - and haven't finished my 4th cup of coffee yet.   Wanna help a brother out and explain a bit more? 

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11 hours ago, Battlecheese said:

On the other hand, is america going to risk a shooting war with Turkey for the sake of some mercenaries?

No. Of course not. That's why people use mercenaries.

Mercs?   They were US Special Forces troops.  Or were you talking about the Kurds/Pehmerga? 

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9 hours ago, The Joker said:

With a fake twitter feed that was used to attack fellow republicans and support Himself.

The Romney Sock

OK, so he's a wannabe internet influencer too.  Or, maybe a russian.

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8 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Mercs?   They were US Special Forces troops.  Or were you talking about the Kurds/Pehmerga? 

The Kurds were the ones people are getting hysterical about at the moment.

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11 hours ago, phillysailor said:

“I have a little conflict of interest because I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump said in 2015. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two,” Trump said in an interview with Stephen Bannon, then chairman of Breitbart News.

The doors to Trump hotels admit all sorts of persons, luggage and proposals. What is handed over in those rooms is completely opaque to the American public.

The power of the presidency, the lack of ethics and morals of this president and the opportunity for graft and fraud are incredible.

Just last week, Vanity Fair reported on $3.5 BILLION in day trades made off presidential decisions regarding tariffs and other major decisions. It’s not clear who made these trades, but is anyone really surprised if insider trading might happen with this administration?

Every time any one of the talking heads on the financial news shows said anything about a trade deal, whether in reaction to Trump or not, the market jumped one way or another.

Day traders run on rumors and momentum.

 

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3 minutes ago, Battlecheese said:

The Kurds were the ones people are getting hysterical about at the moment.

They are more than "mercs" - they are people who have allied with us as an ethnic entity, at great risk to themselves, based upon promises our government made.  So - it's not just about the "poor Kurds", though that is indeed a valid concern - it's also about the damage done to the credibility of the US word, and the deterrent that that credibility represented.   It's about reneging on a national promise, and the shame and future harm that that will cause to all our national entities world-wide, it's about the shame of letting one man's personal pique have so much influence on a world sphere.  

So - yes, to me, this *is* a really big deal - and it could have been avoided in so many ways other than the arbitrary, harmful decision our President made. 

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

it's also about the damage done to the credibility of the US word, and the deterrent that that credibility represented.   It's about reneging on a national promise, and the shame and future harm that that will cause to all our national entities world-wide

The damage was done years ago. The position was stupid and unwinnable. Syria has been obviously and relentlessly winning this war for some time now. At least the troops didn't need to be helicoptered out.

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3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I'm not well read on Ottoman history - and haven't finished my 4th cup of coffee yet.   Wanna help a brother out and explain a bit more? 

Maybe that wasn't clear. Has a country every started a war with a superpower country that has military bases (and ships) inside and all around their own country? Civil unrest or revolution against a colonial power, sure that happens. But the situation in Turkey, as proposed in this thread, that they would attack the Kurd/US coalition? That must be a military first...

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4 minutes ago, El Boracho said:

Maybe that wasn't clear. Has a country every started a war with a superpower country that has military bases (and ships) inside and all around their own country? Civil unrest or revolution against a colonial power, sure that happens. But the situation in Turkey, as proposed in this thread, that they would attack the Kurd/US coalition? That must be a military first...

Gotcha - sorry, I thought you were suggesting the opposite, that Turkey HAD done that in the past.  Thanks for the clarification. 

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13 hours ago, Gissie said:

So now Rommy's opinions are the truth according to dems. Fuck me how the world changes. One could almost be forgiven for thinking it is purely driven by whether it is for or against Trump and the content means nothing.

I can't forgive you or the morons liking your post for filtering everything through your simplistic prism of stupid drivel.

But then you, like those morons, hand wave about not liking Trump and can't get it through your fucking politics what that actually means. Kinda like "communism" its just a word you bullshit about to troll people.

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23 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I can't forgive you or the morons liking your post for filtering everything through your simplistic prism of stupid drivel.

But then you, like those morons, hand wave about not liking Trump and can't get it through your fucking politics what that actually means. Kinda like "communism" its just a word you bullshit about to troll people.

The drivel moron speaks! :D:rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I can't forgive you or the morons liking your post for filtering everything through your simplistic prism of stupid drivel.

But then you, like those morons, hand wave about not liking Trump and can't get it through your fucking politics what that actually means. Kinda like "communism" its just a word you bullshit about to troll people.

I have no problem with your lack of forgiveness, you are so out in left field most of the time it would probably just make me feel dirty if you did. Or are you a priest and mistakenly think I would care about your blessing.

I was making no judgement on Trump. Just that Romney seems to have gone from an unbelievable, lying, right wing racist to the most believable person around with one comment. Do you have a reason of how this happened, apart from his poking shit at Trump and thus becoming forgiven for past transgressions. Does he morph back into unbelievable it if says something you don't like?

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