FishFood

Sailing from LA to SF, Solo w/ Little Experience

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1 hour ago, Israel Hands said:

Yeah, I thought this was all a joke back and forth.

And the online world devolves yet again, one drip at a time. This time in a place generally occupied by a bunch of old sailing farts who just want to have some friendly give and take with other old sailing farts.

 

22 minutes ago, Al Paca said:

Jesus, you Earthlings are a sensitive bunch. 

There is good natured give and take, I certainly enjoy it here.  Then there is crossing lines.  When it come to outright bigotry and disrespect for an entire country based on unfounded prejudice, the line gets crossed.  The same goes for being disrespectful toward people based ion their sex or other attributes beyond their control.  As I said in my earlier post, it's all fun and games until some loses an eye or, their life.

I was lucky enough to be born a white male in a stable, supportive middle class family.  I can hardly claim that I didn't have a good life growing up, I am well aware I had it much better than many.  However, growing up in a town where there were many families like my father's, that were people that came from Poland to start a new and better life.  My father's father emigrated to the US in 1907, as a 16 year old boy.  His mother's parents came to the US around the same time.  Like many towns in the rust belt, Polish jokes were quite normal and I heard them all of time.  When I would point out that my father's family was from Poland, people in their infinite ignorance would tell me that I couldn't be Polish because my last name didn't end with 'ski'.  I assured them that the name came straight of off the boat from Poland with my grandfather, the only change was that my name was originally spelled with the other L in the Polish alphabet, Ł, which is pronounced like a W, in Polish.  In addition, my mother came to the US from Italy after WW II, she met my father in Rome during the war.  So when I politely told people I didn't appreciate Polish jokes, they would change the word Polak to Dago.  Needless to say, I wasn't pleased about it. 

While I never experienced the kind of discrimination and mistreatment that blacks or other minorities did, I can definitely feel empathy for them because my entire time I lived in the US, I have heard endless Polish jokes and heard how dumb Polish people are.  Even though I knew none of it was true, when you hear these things constantly, some doubt forms in your mind.  It wan't until I actually came to live in Poland that I started to learn the truth about the Polish people and the history of the country.  It isn't something that many people outside of Poland know.  Suffice to say that Poland has a proud and rich history and has made many significant contributions to the world in many areas.  The people have of Poland have also endured endured probably more tragedy, hardship and misery than any other country in Europe in the last 1,000 years.  Twenty percent of the population of Poland died in WW II, second only to Belarus that lost 25% of its population during the war.  I doubt that anyone here was aware of that or of many other things about Poland.  To put those numbers in some perspective, Germany lost about 10% of its population, and England, less than 3%. 

So I don't believe I am being 'sensitive' at all.  Al can dismiss or rationalize his shameful bigotry any way he wants, that doesn't in any way excuse it.  It is bull shit and I will call out bull shit when I see it.  I would like to think that if Al is any kind of reasonable human, he is a bit embarrassed and ashamed of his statement here.  If he isn't, oh well, some people never learn.  

Like any human I certainly have faults, but I can safely say that bigotry isn't one of them.   Having been born in the mid 1950s, I grew up in the era of the civil rights marches, the riots, the death, the destruction of those times.  I was a young hippie, against the Vietnam war and a bleeding heart liberal.  I believe in the dignity of all humans all, as well as rainbows and unicorns and I always will.  You can make fun of me for that, people have in the past, I am a tough guy and I can take it.  But I will absolutely not stand for unfounded, shameful bigotry of any kind.  You can dislike an individual based on their personality, their ignorance, their behavior and all of those kinds of things.  There is no inherent right and no reason to shame somebody based solely on their race or ethnicity, because then you are condemning an entire group of people without a rational reason and that is just wrong.  It has led to horrific events all through history and all over the world.  Look at the behavior of our current president, there is a poster child for any number of human failings besides just the bigotry which he is definitely guilty of and unfortunately admired for in certain circles.  It all about dehumanizing our fellow humans, and that process can happen very easily, starting with derogatory names and simple jokes.  And it never ends well.

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Fishy likes "facts" so he should study the first vid.  It factually depicts an expert sailor and crew in F4-5 in the Channel Islands environment.  Note that less experienced blokes were flipping whereas the Dart was romping.  To be solo and pushing on a Hobie 18 in those conditions would be fun for a couple hours but require lots of attention.  If you flip in winter North of Point Conception in those conditions I'd give an experienced waterman a 50/50 chance of re-righting and carrying on.  You'd probably have maybe 20 minutes to get it done.  In anything above F5 even an expert would be in real jeopardy.  If the boat gets away from you it's game over.  How long can you drive perfectly in those conditions by yourself?  Don't make a mistake amigo!  Might want to practice a couple times and work on your cold water swimming ability.  Use that amazing Oxnard Mexican food and spending quality time with Cola as your motivation to make it down here.  Looks like a high pressure blob might keep us warm and dry for the next couple weeks.  

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Easy now Ed, time for some comfort food.

Fish gets benign conditions to beach hop? How timely is that. Now if he could just get time away from Denny's....:(

How fast is a Hobie with 4 flats of beer, 6lbs of kielbasa, a 30lb anchor, a border collie, 2 flats of water and a bottle of Canadian Club?

https://www.foodbeast.com/news/14-awful-british-foods-that-make-us-happy-to-be-american/

stargazy

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10 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

Easy now Ed, time for some comfort food.

Fish gets benign conditions to beach hop? How timely is that. Now if he could just get time away from Denny's....:(

How fast is a Hobie with 4 flats of beer, 6lbs of kielbasa, a 30lb anchor, a border collie, 2 flats of water and a bottle of Canadian Club?

https://www.foodbeast.com/news/14-awful-british-foods-that-make-us-happy-to-be-american/

 

Don't forget the batteries for the electric motor.

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3 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

Easy now Ed, time for some comfort food.

Fish gets benign conditions to beach hop? How timely is that. Now if he could just get time away from Denny's....:(

How fast is a Hobie with 4 flats of beer, 6lbs of kielbasa, a 30lb anchor, a border collie, 2 flats of water and a bottle of Canadian Club?

https://www.foodbeast.com/news/14-awful-british-foods-that-make-us-happy-to-be-american/

 

We just had a wonderful meal tonight at our favorite restaurant and then you posted that obscene photo.  Thank you very much Mr. Horse.  There is a reason the only British food you see outside of the Isles is English breakfast and even then they can't even cook the bloody bacon right!  The beans were a jolly good idea though, I love beans.  Breakfast, lunch, supper, white ones, red ones, brown ones, green ones, they're all good.  Probably the only reason they had an empire is there wasn't anything worth eating back home.

Now excuse me while I go hurl.

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19 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

We just had a wonderful meal tonight at our favorite restaurant and then you posted that obscene photo.  Thank you very much Mr. Horse.  There is a reason the only British food you see outside of the Isles is English breakfast and even then they can't even cook the bloody bacon right!  The beans were a jolly good idea though, I love beans.  Breakfast, lunch, supper, white ones, red ones, brown ones, green ones, they're all good.  Probably the only reason they had an empire is there wasn't anything worth eating back home.

Now excuse me while I go hurl.

C'mon Ed, a Fishfood pie staring back at you brings up the bile? What did you have for dessert? Cucumbers dipped in honey? [acckk]:huh:

I see you like beaver tail and bison like some of us over here, though.https://culture.pl/en/article/10-polish-dishes-that-will-probably-weird-you-out

Pickled cucumbers, photo: Jedrzej Wojnar  / AG

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30 minutes ago, Norse Horse said:

C'mon Ed, a Fishfood pie staring back at you brings up the bile? What did you have for dessert? Cucumbers dipped in honey? [acckk]:huh:

I see you like beaver tail and bison like some of us over here, though.https://culture.pl/en/article/10-polish-dishes-that-will-probably-weird-you-out

Pickled cucumbers, photo: Jedrzej Wojnar  / AG

I suppose if you turn over enough rocks, you can find strange food in any country.  

Quite honestly I have only ever seen 2 things there that I have tried. 

The pickled mushrooms are very popular here, everybody has a jar or two that either they made of their grandmother did.  I don't know what they put in there besides vinegar, but when you try to get the mushroom to your mouth (if you can stab the slimy little things with your fork), there is often a string of clear slime going back to the dish.  People like to wash them down with a slug of vodka.  I think they do that to get the slime out of their mouth.  I tried them once and never again.

Now smalec on the other hand is very tasty.  It's best if somebody's grandfather that slaughters his own pigs makes it, but you can buy it everywhere. You smear it on bread, like butter, add a little salt if you like, and wolf it down.  It's good with a side of dill pickles, they help to cut the fat a bit.  I agree it sounds disgusting but if you ever tried it, I imagine you would want more.  It also common to heat it to melt it and put a little on top of pirogi Ruskie, Russian style pirogi, filled with potato and cheese.  Another way to eat smalec is called pajda chleba.  Toast some dark bread and spread the smalec on the still warm toast.  The warmth of the bread melts the fat which then soaks into the bread and leaves the cracklins on top of the bread.  Wash it down with some good Polish beer.  I try not to eat a lot of smalec since it really isn't compatible with a long life.   

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37 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

I suppose if you turn over enough rocks, you can find strange food in any country.  

Quite honestly I have only ever seen 2 things there that I have tried. 

The pickled mushrooms are very popular here, everybody has a jar or two that either they made of their grandmother did.  I don't know what they put in there besides vinegar, but when you try to get the mushroom to your mouth (if you can stab the slimy little things with your fork), there is often a string of clear slime going back to the dish.  People like to wash them down with a slug of vodka.  I think they do that to get the slime out of their mouth.  I tried them once and never again.

Now smalec on the other hand is very tasty.  It's best if somebody's grandfather that slaughters his own pigs makes it, but you can buy it everywhere. You smear it on bread, like butter, add a little salt if you like, and wolf it down.  It's good with a side of dill pickles, they help to cut the fat a bit.  I agree it sounds disgusting but if you ever tried it, I imagine you would want more.  It also common to heat it to melt it and put a little on top of pirogi Ruskie, Russian style pirogi, filled with potato and cheese.  Another way to eat smalec is called pajda chleba.  Toast some dark bread and spread the smalec on the still warm toast.  The warmth of the bread melts the fat which then soaks into the bread and leaves the cracklins on top of the bread.  Wash it down with some good Polish beer.  I try not to eat a lot of smalec since it really isn't compatible with a long life.   

You should consider trying the stargazy pie, its pretty good.

As for other British food exports, ever hear of cheddar cheese?

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3 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

As for other British food exports, ever hear of cheddar cheese?

Just proof that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.  

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4 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

Just proof that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.  

I can add plenty more,

Apple pie for example.

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Nothing like a good haggis. Stores well in a small boat, and nothing else will eat it if you're not looking.

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10 hours ago, JohnMB said:

I can add plenty more,

Apple pie for example.

Some form of apple pie exists in many western cultures.  It would be quite presumptive and arrogant to claim that the English people invented it.  

But I must say that while many English people may suck at cooking, excepting for boiling everything and anything, they are quite quite accomplished at being arrogant, often without reason.  Having a queen isn't a good enough reason.

 

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4 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

Some form of apple pie exists in many western cultures.  It would be quite presumptive and arrogant to claim that the English people invented it.  

But I must say that while many English people may suck at cooking, excepting for boiling everything and anything, they are quite quite accomplished at being arrogant, often without reason.  Having a queen isn't a good enough reason.

 

You seem to have a double standard about attacks on national character. 

But you are correct it would be arrogant and presumptive to make a statement about the origin of apple pie without doing even a basic check, or having any facts to back it up.

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I'll be damned.

Chaucer wrote up a recipe for apple pie, but he forgot the sugar.

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1 hour ago, JohnMB said:

You seem to have a double standard about attacks on national character. 

But you are correct it would be arrogant and presumptive to make a statement about the origin of apple pie without doing even a basic check, or having any facts to back it up.

No, no double standard at all.  

If you read what I said about English people I chose my words carefully.  If you think it is the same as the unfounded and generalized comments I have heard all of my life about Polish people, then you are sadly mistaken and should read more closely.

I would like to know what valid sources you can confidently cite that prove that English people invented apple pie.  That would be akin to a country claiming to have invented the hard boiled egg.  

But if you want to show me some proof, I will be happy to take a look.

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4 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

I thought apple pie was American.

Well there is the expression 'As American as apple pie'.  I wonder if our former masters say 'As English as apple pie.'

And then we would need to do some research on where the expression 'motherhood and apple pie' came from.

Speaking of motherhood, my mother was from Italy and she made some of the best apple pie I've ever had.  My Polish grandmother made very good apple pie as well.

I will make the bold claim that the hard boiled egg was invented in America.  I dare anyone to prove me wrong.  

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1 minute ago, Ed Lada said:

No, no double standard at all.  

If you read what I said about English people I chose my words carefully.  If you think it is the same as the unfounded and generalized comments I have heard all of my life about Polish people, then you are sadly mistaken and should read more closely.

I would regard the following as generalized, and strongly suspect that it is also unfounded.

6 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

But I must say that while many English people may suck at cooking, excepting for boiling everything and anything, they are quite quite accomplished at being arrogant, often without reason. 

I don't know your sample size is, or from what demographic, but I doubt it is sufficient either for the comment about boiling everything or the arrogance.

Is it the same as the comments you have heard all your life about polish people, perhaps not, but both these comments are often repeated about English and British people, with pretty much nothing to back them up. if you feel that it is ok to defend these comments, then you definitely weaken your argument about polish stereotypes.

 

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1 minute ago, JohnMB said:

I would regard the following as generalized, and strongly suspect that it is also unfounded.

I don't know your sample size is, or from what demographic, but I doubt it is sufficient either for the comment about boiling everything or the arrogance.

Is it the same as the comments you have heard all your life about polish people, perhaps not, but both these comments are often repeated about English and British people, with pretty much nothing to back them up. if you feel that it is ok to defend these comments, then you definitely weaken your argument about polish stereotypes.

 

John, are you English?  Do you live there?  Do you live in America and your ancestors came from England?  I am just curious.

If you read what I said, I said many, not all.  Words are important John.

In my opinion the part about arrogance has been abundantly proven throughout the history of the British Empire and there terrible mistreatment, murder, exploitation and subjugation of a large part of the world.  Then there is the class system, maybe not as important as it was  some years ago, but it still exists.  I think these are some pretty good examples of arrogance. 

I have spent a lot of years reading a lot of history, particularly about WW II in Europe.  Finally, almost 75 years after the end of WW II, even British historians agree that the US and Great Britain did not win the war single handedly, not even close.  It could be argued that the legend in his own mind Montgomery caused more casualties than necessary by his bungling in Normandy and made further serious errors in Operation Market Garden, which was essentially his attempt to gain relevance, and ended up as a big fiasco.  I could go on, but I think you get the idea. 

Even if I didn't back up my statement with indisputable historical facts, your accusing me of having a double standard would only denigrate my character, it doesn't invalidate what I say about others.  That is called attacking the messenger, not the message.  It's a common trick to hide a weak argument.  

You are right about my comment about cooking, however I don't know of any other cuisine that features boiled beef.  I should have said that English food is mostly unremarkable and often forgettable to non English people.  There are more Chinese restaurants outside of China in the world than any other type of foreign restaurant.  Italian restaurants can be found in almost any country.  French restaurants are popular all over as well.  McDonald's has outlets all over the world.  I have traveled around a bit of the world and have rarely found a restaurant specializing in English food.  Don't you think there is a good reason for that?  Even English people eat a lot of dishes that they took from various parts of the Empire or are you going to tell me that they invented curry as well?

So John, I am defending my comments with facts, not unfounded prejudice and heresay.  You are welcome to dispute my facts but I don't think you will get very far.

And I am still waiting for a cite or two about your apple pie claim.  

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Wall of text in 3......2.......

So Leeroy, how much text is a 'wall'?

I'm asking for a friend.

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and once again an interesting conversation bites the dust thanks to prejudice, intolerance yelled across the room by the few..

See ya FF. Hope you make it, or at least, make it into a good story.

 

l

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15 minutes ago, luminary said:

and once again an interesting conversation bites the dust

+1

This was a fun thread when it morphed into mock-bickering over movie rights.  When it lost the "mock" and morphed into bickering over national pride.... it turned a corner, and not in a good way.

 

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13 minutes ago, sledracr said:

+1

This was a fun thread when it morphed into mock-bickering over movie rights.  When it lost the "mock" and morphed into bickering over national pride.... it turned a corner, and not in a good way.

 

Not national pride, simple human dignity.  

Are you going to claim that this thread is 'ruining sailing' next? 

You are free to not read anything on this site that upsets you.  Or HTFU.

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35 minutes ago, luminary said:

See ya FF. Hope you make it, or at least, make it into a good story.

It is my sincere hope that Fish Food gets the adventure he craves, while still being prudent enough not to literally end up as fish food.  

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7 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

You are free to not read anything on this site that upsets you.  Or HTFU.

Heh.  I've been here a long time, you'll have to work pretty hard to get under *my* skin.

But... I don't think it is me that needs to walk away and gain some perspective.

There was a pretty funny give-and-take for a while.  It seemed like both sides were giving and getting.  *you* said some things that I might have thought were over-the-top, but at least the tone was still on the funny end of the spectrum

That motherfucker Al Paca

Paca is a sleazy bastard

Believe me Packer, you will live to rue this day, and then wish you were dead.

Then Paca posted

A Polack, the Pope and a bear walk into a bar.

... and the thread wobbled off its axis.  Resulting in several PAGES of righteous indignation and unleashed (real) anger.

I get it  That's clearly a word that bothers you.

But I'd offer this.... if you're going to take such offense when someone - tangentially - calls you a name you don't like, maybe you should back away from "teasing"

You clearly can't take what you give.

$.02

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ed Lada said:

If you read what I said, I said many, not all.  Words are important John.

Pitiful.

Yes words are important, and hiding behind, that is pretty weak. Saying " Many X are Y" can always be 'justified',  "oh I said many not all". But the clear implication is that Y is a national characteristic of the nationality X. But that's pretty weak. I can pick any broad generalization about any nationality and make a statement like that and justify it, it all depends on what I choose 'many' to mean in the context. Its a little 3rd grade.

Characterizing 'many' English people as arrogant based on history books and a tiny demographic slice seems a pretty long reach, how many English (or British)people have you met?

Any characterization i make of Polish people (and their cuisine) is based on my personal experience. I like the ones I have met, both the ones who grew up in Poland and speak polish as a first language, and those who grew up in the US and retain a connection to Poland.   You continued attempts to justify your disparaging comments about British People and their cuisine merely expose your lack of knowledge of either.

I'm sorry you feel my comments about your double standard disparage your character that was not my intention. Your continued attempt to justify the unjustifiable speaks more to your character than the original comment.

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24 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

Pitiful.

Yes words are important, and hiding behind, that is pretty weak. Saying " Many X are Y" can always be 'justified',  "oh I said many not all". But the clear implication is that Y is a national characteristic of the nationality X. But that's pretty weak. I can pick any broad generalization about any nationality and make a statement like that and justify it, it all depends on what I choose 'many' to mean in the context. Its a little 3rd grade.  No, it isn't an excuse and it isn't weak.  As I said woods have meaning.  Many does not mean all and I chose that word carefully.  I would say a several hundred year history of the things I mentioned would by necessity involve the complicity of many of the people in question.  That doesn't mean that there aren't many fine people in the country as well, and I never said or implied that there aren't.  

Characterizing 'many' English people as arrogant based on history books and a tiny demographic slice seems a pretty long reach, how many English (or British)people have you met?  See my comments above.

Any characterization i make of Polish people (and their cuisine) is based on my personal experience. I like the ones I have met, both the ones who grew up in Poland and speak polish as a first language, and those who grew up in the US and retain a connection to Poland.   You continued attempts to justify your disparaging comments about British People and their cuisine merely expose your lack of knowledge of either.  I am happy that you have had a positive experience with Polish people and Polish cuisine.  I don't believe I lack knowledge of British people or their history at all.  Again, I said I am sure there are many fine British people.  The ones that are arrogant, still could be essentially good people.  Arrogance is a personality trait.  The stupidity that Polish people are often characterized as having is something that is not a choice, you are born with a certain level of intelligence, it isn't developed.  If you think my mild insult to the British people is equivalent to stating or implying that an entire country is populated by stupid people, then you are sadly mistaken.  

I'm sorry you feel my comments about your double standard disparage your character that was not my intention. Your continued attempt to justify the unjustifiable speaks more to your character than the original comment.  My comment about disparagement was phrased carefully once again.  I said it 'would' be, I wasn't saying you said that, I was labeling myself with that word usage.  

You can be as butt hurt as you like.  I do believe that there are different degrees of insults.  "Hey, you cook like a Brit."   "Hey, you are a stupid Polak."  Do you honestly believe those two statements are equally hurtful?  According to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, insults are carefully defined to indicate which ones rise to the level of being legally actionable.  In order to be charged with calling somebody by an obscene name, the standard was (the last I knew)"...any language that would incite a reasonable man to violence." Calling somebody an 'asshole' in the Army doesn't meet that standard. (Don't ask me how I know that.)  So it seems to me that I am not the only one that believes not every insult is equal.

I like the English language, I think it is the finest language in the world.  I don't think I am being arrogant in saying that.  The grammar is relatively simple, and a foreigner can learn enough simple English to communicate almost anything in a pretty short amount of time.  It is also a language that contains one of the largest vocabularies of any language which allows great precision as well as many other descriptive possibilities. 

I have spent a lot of my life in various jobs where one of the primary skills was the ability to communicate well.  I am proud of my vocabulary and I like to use precise words to convey a precise meaning.  I am often criticized here for being verbose.  It isn't only because I like to talk, it is because I want to be very clear in what I am saying.  And apparently that isn't enough. 

I know what I said, I know why I said it and I stand by it.  I think I explained myself in great detail, apparently too great for some.  If you and the other people don't like what I said; either you don't believe me, didn't read it carefully or just can't comprehend it, and I'm sorry for that.  I stand by my words. 

If you are offended, it wasn't my intention and I apologize for that.  I am not taking back anything I said.  I also gave a lengthy response as to why I was offended by a Polak joke.  I stand by that defense.  We can all agree to disagree, that's just fine with me. 

If my words offend you, you can tell me why or you can ignore me, I'm fine either way.  If people say things I find offensive, which has rarely happened here, I will defend myself.  Extensively, obviously.  

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4 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

If my words offend you, you can tell me why or you can ignore me, I'm fine either way.  If people say things I find offensive, which has rarely happened here, I will defend myself.  Extensively, obviously.  

They don't offend me, they demonstrate a clear double standard. I'm surprised you can't see this.

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1 hour ago, sledracr said:

Heh.  I've been here a long time, you'll have to work pretty hard to get under *my* skin.

But... I don't think it is me that needs to walk away and gain some perspective.

There was a pretty funny give-and-take for a while.  It seemed like both sides were giving and getting.  *you* said some things that I might have thought were over-the-top, but at least the tone was still on the funny end of the spectrum

That motherfucker Al Paca

Paca is a sleazy bastard

Believe me Packer, you will live to rue this day, and then wish you were dead.

Then Paca posted

A Polack, the Pope and a bear walk into a bar.

... and the thread wobbled off its axis.  Resulting in several PAGES of righteous indignation and unleashed (real) anger.

I get it  That's clearly a word that bothers you.

But I'd offer this.... if you're going to take such offense when someone - tangentially - calls you a name you don't like, maybe you should back away from "teasing"

You clearly can't take what you give.

$.02

 

 

 

 

I beg your pardon Sled, but I didn't write several Pages.  Yes it was real anger because I am tired of hearing about dumb Polaks.  

I also object to your use of the term tangential.  Al Paca purposely used that joke or start of a joke to needle me.  Perhaps he got more of a response than he anticipated, but it wasn't a tangential insult, it was directed at me.

Yes, you are absolutely right, it was fun to go back and forth with him, perhaps they were a little over the top, but Al didn't object, he kept playing so I did too.

I think I pretty much made it clear why the introduction of a long existing, unfair, demeaning stereotype was a little different than what preceded it. 

I have been on this site almost as long as you have.  I have been called plenty of names here.  General insults are fine.  But when they digress to ethnic stereotyping and bigotry it isn't fine. 

I doubt that Al said it to be mean.  But that's just indicative of how stubborn that stereotype of Polish people is, that somebody would have no idea how offensive it can be.  I've been hearing that shit all my life, I'm real tired of it, and I will call it out anytime it's directed at me, in fun or not.  If you have never been subjected to that kind of harassment, good for you. 

This was not an incident of give and take, I have taken plenty here, and either gave back in kind, or just shut up.  This was an entirely different kind of abuse.  Now Al knows.  If he doesn't say something like that again, there won't be any more problems.  

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1 minute ago, JohnMB said:

They don't offend me, they demonstrate a clear double standard. I'm surprised you can't see this.

OK John.  I understand completely what you are saying.  I don't see it that way clearly.  I don't think any further conversation will clear it up.

I hold no malice toward you, have a good evening.

I am still waiting for that apple pie origins citation.

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As a little kid, I heard lots of Pollack jokes and must admit that I actually thought that there must be some truth to the stereotype.

Now I realize that we should only disparage homeless people. 

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3 hours ago, sledracr said:

Heh.  I've been here a long time, you'll have to work pretty hard to get under *my* skin.

But... I don't think it is me that needs to walk away and gain some perspective.

There was a pretty funny give-and-take for a while.  It seemed like both sides were giving and getting.  *you* said some things that I might have thought were over-the-top, but at least the tone was still on the funny end of the spectrum

That motherfucker Al Paca

Paca is a sleazy bastard

Believe me Packer, you will live to rue this day, and then wish you were dead.

Then Paca posted

A Polack, the Pope and a bear walk into a bar.

... and the thread wobbled off its axis.  Resulting in several PAGES of righteous indignation and unleashed (real) anger.

I get it  That's clearly a word that bothers you.

But I'd offer this.... if you're going to take such offense when someone - tangentially - calls you a name you don't like, maybe you should back away from "teasing"

You clearly can't take what you give.

$.02

 

 

 

 

Exactly.  Just a little friendly give and take. Besides, this thread is about the adventures Fish Food, his sailing prowess and his youthful exuberance. I had some of that back in the day too. Sometimes I'm able to reconnect with that, usually when I'm on a "Ritalin Holliday".  

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1 hour ago, Kenny Dumas said:

As a little kid, I heard lots of Pollack jokes and must admit that I actually thought that there must be some truth to the stereotype.

Now I realize that we should only disparage homeless people. 

My best friend from college is Polish.  I never knew until Lech Walesa sprung into the news.  My friend was proud to be Polish.  Good for him.  Clean people he said.  Why does everyone want to claim cleanliness.  I like a good stinky sweat.  I earn it.

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24 minutes ago, hasher said:

I like a good stinky sweat.  I earn it.

As long as you don't inflict your good stinky sweat on others, I think that's OK.  

Most Polish people I have run across are quite clean, both their bodies and their houses.  They also dress as well as they can, both men and women, even with the constraints of the low pay of many here. 

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Just wondering.....   how hard can it be going down the coast in a hobie 18..... if people took a hobie 18 across the atlantic.... in 1986....

 

(another link: http://sail.ie/misc/cats_atlantic.htm ) shows 3 successful crossings with a hobie 18....   BLOODY AMAZING......

 

 

Quote
David Brookes, Saturday, 7 February 2015

It is with great sadness the IHCA announces the passing of Hobie sailor Tony ‘Dingo’ Laurent. Tony while remembered as the person who sailed the Hobie 18 across the Atlantic he did so much more in Hobie sailing and beyond. He was also a passionate Hobie sailor competing in many  Hobie World, European, National Championships and Hog's Breath 1000. Tony continued after his Hobie sailing to Julies Venrne Challenge, around the world and cross Atlantic Races. 

After moving to Airlie Beach on the Whitsunday Region with his wife Lolita and daughter Jessie. Tony set up a success business and was the Airlie Beach Chamber of Commerce President.

Whatever Tony did he put 100% effort into the project. Tony ‘Dingo’ Laurent will be missed by all that have privilege to race with and against  and to know him. The IHCA passes on our most sincere condolences to Lolita (also a Hobie sailor from New Caledonia) and Jessie Laurent.

This is his incredible story of sailing a Hobie 18 across the Atlantic Ocean 

Tony Laurent and Daniel Prada Across the Atlantic on an Open Hobie 18 Catamaran
October 1986
The following is reprinted from Hobie Hotline  

Editor's Note: The HOBIE HOTLINE is printing the following story for two reasons. First, it is a remarkable adventure, one of the most incredible journeys ever attempted on a Hobie Cat and we would be remiss by not including it. We hope you enjoy it and thrill with the sailors and their amazing achievement, a milestone in ocean crossings.
Secondly, it is also a warning. Hobie Cat and the HOTLINE do not endorse offshore Hobie sailing. Hobie Cats were made to sail within sight of land whether in the ocean or on a lake. Some specially controlled events such as the Hog's Breath 1000 include offshore sailing, but the safety measures are extraordinary. Tony Laurent, profiled in the January/February 1987 issue, is one of the most experienced Hobie sailors in the world. Daniel Pradel is a seasoned French sailor and veteran of many races, including a lot of Hobie sailing experience. The two men thought they were prepared. We hope others who may be planning such adventures take note.
 

By Noelle Duck
Both passionate sailors had already gathered in victories and trophies. But they dreamed of the impossible: traversing the Atlantic Ocean from Dakar, Senegal on Africa’s west coast, to Pointe a Pitre, Guadeloupe, part of the French Antilles in the Caribbean. An Atlantic crossing is always a touch and go affair in a sailboat, but Tony Laurent and Daniel Pradel were going to try the journey on a Hobie 18 Magnum. They left Dakar on November 12, 1986 at 8:30 in the morning. On a peaceful, windy Sunday 18 days later, a local sailor, Mr. Guegen, was doing some chores on his boat in the Basse Terre Marina on Guadeloupe when he spotted two exhausted sailors gliding into port. The impending arrival of the team had been announced by French Overseas Radio, so Guegen knew who the two were.
"You want some help?" he asked with concern. ''We’re bloody hungry." was the weak reply. With that exchange, the two sailors had completed what many thought to be impossible. They had traversed the Atlantic on an open, 18-foot catamaran. But the price they paid was great. Laurent and Pradel had often thought about crossing the Atlantic on a Hobie Cat separately Then, one July night, Laurent told Pradel he had a "crazy project" to talk about. Pradel replied that he, too, had been thinking of something crazy After deciding who was to speak first, only two words were said: "Atlantic Ocean." They decided on late autumn and chose the course from Senegal to the French West Indies, a route that had the reputation of being "easy," a route American slave ships travelled in the 17th and 18th centuries because fresh trade winds and calm waters made the going fast and uneventful. "Once you have passed the Cape Verde Islands, you'll see that the sea becomes peaceful and that it will rock you to your destination," said their friends. By the time Pradel and Laurent were making final preparations on their boat, which rested on the beach of N'Gor at Dakar, they were dreaming of the sweet regularity of the trades, still mild at this time of year, that were to push them all the way to Guadeloupe.

On the beach at the Meridien Hotel of N'Gor, the Fujicolor, as the boat had been christened in honor of the trek's chief sponsor, had become a major attraction. The crossbars had been set, the wings had been placed and the double-layer trampoline, which would sandwich the bag of plastic-coated maps, was stretched between the hulls. They raised the mast, fixed the shrouds and backstays and tied the ARGOS beacon, an emergency locator, to the back of the trampoline. They fixed an inflatable mattress across the boat along with a plastic sheet to be used for the protection of the sailor at rest. As they readied themselves, tourists snapped photos and asked dozens of questions. Most centred on the Seagold desalinator the pair had bought from Pierre Fehlmann, the winner on uncorrected time, of the last Around the World race. They explained that the machine could produce six liters of fresh water in only one hour by pumping sea water through it.

At 8:30 on the morning of November 12, Laurent and Pradel arrived at their boat and were greeted by the staff and guests of the Meridien. They stuffed their water tight bags with food and placed them in the hulls. The food included a high-energy mix of cereals, dry fruit, cream and honey; bags of a protein drink; some cheese, a Moroccan rice dish called couscous, a  little bread, butter and even some red wine. The sextant, the two VHF radios in plastic cases, the cigarettes and lighters and other equipment were placed in another bag and attached to the trampoline opposite the inflatable mattress. Laurent and Pradel donned their equipment slowly and quietly to the sound of the beating waves. Polar underwear, dry suits with neoprene necks, ankles and wrists, were soon snug. Next, they slipped into their trapeze harnesses, life vests and neoprene boots and their sunglasses and gloves. Pradel asked for someone to help carry the boat to the water and 20 people volunteered, lifting the cat on their shoulders and walking down the beach in a slow procession. Just when the hulls touched the water, a fishing boat began to leave. It would show them the way through the reef.
The team waved a rapid au revoir and jumped aboard. Laurent took the tiller; Pradel sheeted in. They were gone.

 "The third night we passed the Cape Verde Islands," relates Laurent, "and we realized that our project was going to be much more difficult than we had thought. I began to understand that it would be torture, but it was impossible to go back. The sea was incredibly strong and there was no chance of returning. But then, we had never even thought about abandoning. When we left the beach at N'Gor, the sea immediately became very strong. We met strong winds, high, but negotiable waves and heavy swells caused by the north wind. During the first night, the waves came from all directions. Steering was difficult. The night was so black that we could not see the bows three meters in front of us. A lot of concentration was required to feel from where the next weird wave would arrive. We saw a cargo ship far away and I directed the beam  of my flashlight onto the sail. This was the only boat we were to see during the entire passage. Aside from that ship we saw an old drifting can; that's it.

 "We tried everything to sleep," says Laurent. "We changed the position of the mattress so that we could put our heads under the shelter. Impossible. After three nights we were so fatigued that we fell asleep in spite of everything but we were at the extreme limit of exhaustion. Each time a wave came over, the one at rest was drowned under a meter of water. This lasted several seconds. At the end of the first week, we got upright without really waking up and held onto the shrouds, searching for air. Even between the waves, we had the feeling of being in a drum with people beating on it.

The heavily loaded trampoline was so near to the water surface that the sea was beating from above and below with incredible power. Meanwhile, followers in France and in Guadeloupe followed the progress of the boat by tracking the ARGOS signal sent out by the team's beacon. Supporters estimated their speed at seven knots, slow for the Hobie l8 and two seasoned sailors.  What they discovered was that a week of heavy storm activity in the North Atlantic was driving large swells into the small catamaran nearly 2,000 miles away. "in waves that never seemed to end, we passed a sort of tropical tornado," says Laurent. "it was a black cloud like ink above a white column that rose above the sea. When night came, I asked Daniel not to sleep. The first wave ran toward us, and I've never seen a bigger one. It had to have been more than ten meters. The wind  increased to 60 knots and we hauled down all the sails. Despite that, the boat was surfing like crazy. I couldn't control it anymore. When we saw this, we just said 'Looks like this will be the toughest night.' "During the storm a wave struck and I got up but was still under water. In fact, the whole boat was under two meters of water for about ten seconds. When I emerged, I  shouted at Daniel but got nothing. I thought he was swept away! But the noise ,, was so intense that even though he was I just a few feet away from me, he couldn't hear. Even he, on top of the Magnum I wings, had a hard time keeping his head above water. After that, when it would happen again, our only check was OK?' and when the other replied OK,' one could go back to sleep. The next day, there was no wind at all, but the waves were still there. In the morning I could not wake Daniel. He was dreaming of having breakfast on the terrace of a bistro at Toulon.

Two Hundred Pumps for One Glass of Water
We talked a lot about food," continues Laurent. "We were always hungry. Then we discovered another problem: thirst. Pumping the desalinator took superhuman efforts. On the beach at N'Gor, we described to our fans what the Seagold could do. While it was true that the water was good, Daniel had to pump 200 times to squeeze the equivalent of one glass of water out of it. Each time, we had to take the daggerboard out of the windward hull, install the filter in the daggerboard case, put the outlet tube into the mouth of the one to drink, then start pumping. We had two glasses of water per day, one in the morning and one in the evening and that amounted to 800 pump strokes. On top of that we had to use fresh water to dissolve the Substi 500, a highly enriched protein powder. We had five bags a day of that. "Daniel pumped for the whole passage. I tried it once but it was too tough for me and I told him I was going to give up drinking. He waited several hours. I gritted my teeth and he finally went on passing me the tube."

 But while Pradel was left to do most of the water pumping, Laurent tackled the tough job of driving the boat. "We were always in danger of capsizing even when we reefed the main and rolled the jib," says Pradel. "That would have been a catastrophe; our boat was overloaded with 100 kilos of tools, equipment, food and instruments. Even without the load we had some difficulties in our righting tests in the smooth waters of the Bay of Hyeres in France. There were a couple of times in the Atlantic when we both thought "This is the end."


 Laurent agrees that the sea had become their enemy. "From the beginning, we encountered only a stormy, disordered sea that pushed the boat in all directions. The noise was very loud and the absence of any rhythm prevented us from getting accustomed to it. The nights were the toughest moments. When I saw twilight arrive at about six, it was like a nightmare repeating itself. I was not keen to go through what I did the night before. Daniel, who needs 12 hours of sleep a day on land, whereas I need very few, was better off during the nights. We learned a lot from each other. Because of our spirit for survival, we never lost hope.


"When I saw Daniel looking wild after he missed an object, could not co-ordinate his movements, did not understand what I was telling him, or when he had problems moving on the trampoline, I reduced the speed of the boat and waited for him to come back to reality. 'At the beginning we were both sea sick. He was a little worse off than me; I had a fixed scopoderm behind my ear-a gadget that proved pretty effective. Daniel let me steer and that reduced the sickness since I had to concentrate on things other than the nausea. He stayed on the trampoline operating the desalinator, preparing the meals, controlling the sails. He took care of me. I tried to do the same for him, so I steered hours and hours as best I could."    


Food also presented unexpected problems for the pair. According to Laurent,  both men were reluctant to eat the food concentrates from the tubes and the slabs of high energy cereal mix. Still, says Laurent, ‘After four days on the water, our revulsion against the food out of the tubes was gone, but it was dangerous preparing it. We first had to find the pliers in the bag attached to the trampoline. When we opened the bag, the waves flooded it with water. When we closed it again, we had to open the hull covers - between waves and had to find the food. Then we had to close the hulls, put the pliers back and finally pump the water for the Substi 500. We had three flavors: coffee, vegetable and vanilla. We never had enough water, so the drinks were always too strong and made us nauseous, although the vanilla flavor wasn't too bad.


"If you had the chance to grab one, the feast began. "Even dissolving the food was a problem. We had shakers with us with screw-on covers and we had glued straps to them, but they were torn off despite the reputation of the glue we had used. I lost one after the other, washed away by the waves while we ate and when we lost the last one, it was a catastrophe. Fortunately, Daniel had a stroke of genius. We took the case of a flashlight (which was supposedly waterproof but failed anyway) and poured the powder and water into that. We stirred with our fingers and ate. After a few minutes, we could actually feel the energy circulating through our bodies." 


But this renewed energy wasn't enough. In fact, the two were only taking in about 500 calories a day. Malnutrition, exhaustion and constant submersion in salt water all worked against them. Every time a small cut, scrape or abrasion scarred their skin, salt water was able to enter. Soon it was infected. The constant exposure to salt water led to ulcers on ankles, feet and hands that also became infected.  "Physically, our biggest problem was the fact that we were just always soaked," says Laurent. "Everything except our watches and the Maglite was inundated.


After two days, we tried the VHF radios. They were already rusty. One day after the start, Daniel tried to fetch a cigarette, but a steep wave arrived at the same moment he opened the bag and flooded the lighters. This wasn't a big tragedy since the next day, a wave washed all our cigarettes overboard anyway. "When we each took our turn to sleep on the trampoline, we would take off our KWay overalls from Helly-Hansen - which were quite practical with their zippers everywhere, then our polar underwear, and we would wring out the water. When we pulled them on again, we thought it was sheer luxury. We had abandoned the dry suits long before because it was impossible to wear neoprene in such conditions; our ankles and wrists would just balloon. Our boots were also thrown over board because the volume of our feet had doubled and the neoprene prevented our skin from breathing. Our feet became covered with ulcers which proved worse than ankles, there was doubt that his feet could be saved. Five days later back in France, a skin graft was successful and his feet began to heal.


 Laurent, although not as severely burned, was also racked with pain. His feeling had come back as well. He did however, manage a breakfast consisting of a steak, tomatoes, two bowls of cornflakes with lots of sugar, six yogurts, a complete camembert cheese, four slices of bread and butter, croissants, other French breakfast  cakes and a platter of fruit.


Still, he could not move his limbs without extreme pain  and as the blood continued to return, the pain increased. Unfortunately for Laurent, his sailing idol, Mike Birch who had participated in the Route de Rhum race and who had helped plot their positions during the final days with his ARGOS beacon, refused to come to the Meridien Hotel at Saint Francois, to salute them. "To shake hands with him would help me more than all this medicine," said Laurent. Still, congratulatory letters, telegrams and phone calls from Europe and North America poured in by the dozens. Fujicolor waited calmly on the beach, almost mocking the sailors. It was untouched by the ordeal. Nothing was broken and it exhibited very little wear despite the bashing. Even the sails, prepared by Neil Pryde in the colors of the French and Australian flags, were in excellent condition.


Sailors even took the boat out to play in the surf while Laurent and Pradel were attempting to recover.  The two drew several lessons from their crossing The first, according to Laurent, is that "Nobody should ever try a crazy thing like that; if we had known how tough it would be, we never would have started." The second was the mutual respect needed for a crew, or anyone, to survive a long ordeal. "When I think of Daniel clinging to the trampoline, his hands and feet in the sea water. During the last few days, I couldn't prevent myself from trembling and I hid myself when I had to vomit after seeing Daniel's feet.


"Finally, on the night of Saturday, December 6, we got the feeling that we were nearing land. We could smell flowers and trees. We could see lights and cliffs. It was La Dominique, but we did not know that yet. We just spent the night on the leeward side of the island enjoying the stillness. We were very happy. It was the end and we knew that we had succeeded although we didn't know exactly where we were because it was next to impossible to tell our position with the sextant; we were too low on the water, and we bounced around too much. Finally, on Sunday morning, we arrived in Guadeloupe.


When the two sailed into the marina, it turned out that they needed a lot more help than food alone could provide. They had to be carried to a small restaurant, the Royal, where a doctor was summoned to apply first aid to their wounds while they stuffed themselves with their first full meal since the beginning of their journey. Pradel's feet, which had seldom been atop  the wings and were always submerged in salt water, were just tattered flesh. The skin was torn away over most of their surface.


Laurent had deep wounds and scars over his butt and thighs as well as craters on his feet a millimetre deep. Both men's hands were covered with wounds that had crusted and would not heal. Each cut, which never had a chance to dry and heal properly, was infected. Their circulation suffered the effects of blockage due to sitting and crouching in one position for hours on end and their hips and knees were paralyzed. Every movement brought tears to their eyes, but the worst wasn't over. They were almost in a state of shock. With their eyes glazed and the circulation problems preventing any feeling in their lower extremities, the pain was not nearly a horrible state, I remember that never as bad as it would become. Later in the evening of their first day on land, Pradel was wheeled to a restaurant to have dinner with friends while Laurent slept in his hotel room. Pradel's meal consisted of two large steaks, a plate of vegetables, noodles and six large pieces of cake. Then he too retired for the evening.


 The next day, both men could barely move. Pradel, despite being given tranquilizers, was tortured by the dressings on his feet, which began to come back to life during the night. Tears welled in his eyes for three hours. Groggy, he kept asking for someone to help him. Finally, when he managed to fall asleep, he felt himself aboard the boat, unable to stop the rolling movement or the hammering of the waves in his ears. In his dream he stretched his hand for a tool and some food only to have the waves wash them away. With infected third degree burns over his feet and during the whole trip did he once complain."
 Pradel also appreciated Laurent. "Tony is a much better driver than I am. I don't know anybody else who's able to steer 18 hours a day in such high, vicious waves." Finally, the two learned that even if the boat, rigging and the sails were able to stand up to the punishment, the critical points such as clothing and survival equipment need a lot more preparation and careful thought. Improvements need to be made.


 Naturally, the first few days after landing, both said they would never try such a feat again. But Pradel, who is mounting a Tornado effort for the 1988 Olympics, began to state that he wanted to sail in the 1987 single-hand Figaro race and Laurent began to talk of racing Formula 40 catamarans in offshore grand prix events.   Despite their injuries, the sea had not lost it's allure.

 

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25 minutes ago, h20man said:

Just wondering.....   how hard can it be going down the coast in a hobie 18..... if people took a hobie 18 across the atlantic.... in 1986....

 

(another link: http://sail.ie/misc/cats_atlantic.htm ) shows 3 successful crossings with a hobie 18....   BLOODY AMAZING......

 

 

 

Well this guy sailed this 13.5' mono hull across the Atlantic in 1965.  Granted he had a little shelter but still, he was alone at sea for 78 days.

 

 image.jpeg.09daad9e30e41276f75e052ce080e0cc.jpeg  

 

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42 minutes ago, h20man said:

Just wondering.....   how hard can it be going down the coast in a hobie 18....

Exhaustion. Hypothermia. And the proposal to address that was the laughable idea of simply beaching whenever, wherever for a little camping. A Hobie 18 is not magically fast downwind so the trip will take a while. Even longer in what passes for calm weather. Going fast in a blow is super fun and relaxing on a Hobie...perfect for little catnaps...ask anyone...heh.

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8 hours ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Wall of text in 3......2.......

Nailed it

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On 1/4/2020 at 9:14 AM, Norse Horse said:

C'mon Ed, a Fishfood pie staring back at you brings up the bile? What did you have for dessert? Cucumbers dipped in honey? [acckk]:huh:

I see you like beaver tail and bison like some of us over here, though.https://culture.pl/en/article/10-polish-dishes-that-will-probably-weird-you-out

Horse, you have earned yourself a couple of serious insults for those posts.

But I'll refrain because I like you.

Only this once though - lets have no more of it..

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Huh?  WTF?  I guess the OP is FISH FOOD so talking about fish and food somehow is appropriate.  Sometimes I wonder if some posters still sail or just are keyboard jockeys.

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6 hours ago, zenmasterfred said:

Huh?  WTF?  I guess the OP is FISH FOOD so talking about fish and food somehow is appropriate.  Sometimes I wonder if some posters still sail or just are keyboard jockeys.

There haven't been any updates recently, gotta have something to talk about. Don't worry, end of the month you'll have more. Either we'll be dead or you'll get some great pictures. 

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21 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

John, are you English?  Do you live there?  Do you live in America and your ancestors came from England?  I am just curious.

If you read what I said, I said many, not all.  Words are important John.

In my opinion the part about arrogance has been abundantly proven throughout the history of the British Empire and there terrible mistreatment, murder, exploitation and subjugation of a large part of the world.  Then there is the class system, maybe not as important as it was  some years ago, but it still exists.  I think these are some pretty good examples of arrogance. 

I have spent a lot of years reading a lot of history, particularly about WW II in Europe.  Finally, almost 75 years after the end of WW II, even British historians agree that the US and Great Britain did not win the war single handedly, not even close.  It could be argued that the legend in his own mind Montgomery caused more casualties than necessary by his bungling in Normandy and made further serious errors in Operation Market Garden, which was essentially his attempt to gain relevance, and ended up as a big fiasco.  I could go on, but I think you get the idea. 

Even if I didn't back up my statement with indisputable historical facts, your accusing me of having a double standard would only denigrate my character, it doesn't invalidate what I say about others.  That is called attacking the messenger, not the message.  It's a common trick to hide a weak argument.  

You are right about my comment about cooking, however I don't know of any other cuisine that features boiled beef.  I should have said that English food is mostly unremarkable and often forgettable to non English people.  There are more Chinese restaurants outside of China in the world than any other type of foreign restaurant.  Italian restaurants can be found in almost any country.  French restaurants are popular all over as well.  McDonald's has outlets all over the world.  I have traveled around a bit of the world and have rarely found a restaurant specializing in English food.  Don't you think there is a good reason for that?  Even English people eat a lot of dishes that they took from various parts of the Empire or are you going to tell me that they invented curry as well?

So John, I am defending my comments with facts, not unfounded prejudice and heresay.  You are welcome to dispute my facts but I don't think you will get very far.

And I am still waiting for a cite or two about your apple pie claim.  

 

 

Hey Ed, don't tar us all with the same brush please. ;)

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10 minutes ago, mad said:

Hey Ed, don't tar us all with the same brush please. ;)

Mad, Mad, Mad, I said many, not all. 

You are one of the good ones as far as I can tell.  :rolleyes:

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Ed Lada, without looking it up, what is the origin of the term, “Mind your P’s and Q’s”?

Hint: It has something to do with British Pub culture, which has exported its fine cuisine to many, not all countries.

The fact that a Dane can roll into a pub in Cascais and order up some Bangers and Mash might count as a reasonable culinary export.

As for laying claim to Polish cuisine, a Ukrainian might have other ideas. The mighty Perogie would be called Poudeheh, the cabbage roll specifically called Holopchi etc etc

Alot of cuisine and religion can easily predate sovereignty.

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47 minutes ago, Ed Lada said:

 I said many, not all.

 

Here is a quote from DT

“ The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.”

You think this is ok? I do not. This whole 'many' justification is BS.

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12 minutes ago, fufkin said:

Ed Lada, without looking it up, what is the origin of the term, “Mind your P’s and Q’s”?

Hint: It has something to do with British Pub culture, which has exported its fine cuisine to many, not all countries.

The fact that a Dane can roll into a pub in Cascais and order up some Bangers and Mash might count as a reasonable culinary export.

As for laying claim to Polish cuisine, a Ukrainian might have other ideas. The mighty Perogie would be called Poudeheh, the cabbage roll specifically called Holopchi etc etc

 Alot of cuisine and religion can easily predate sovereignty.

The origin of the saying Mind your Ps and Qs is far from certain, but your explanation is probably not the origin.  

I wouldn't call pub grub 'fine cuisine', which is a vague, subjective term anyway.  Do you mean fine according to your taste buds, or do you mean fine in relation to the quality, presentation and setting?   Fine dining is generally considered to be the best, highest quality food served in a formal restaurant.  I don't think anybody would consider a pup to be 'fine dining' in that sense.  You are going to have to come up with some concrete evidence of the easy availability of pub food in many countries.  I am pretty well traveled and the only thing close I have seen in many countries in the world are Irish pubs, and many of those don't feature food so much as alcohol.  We have a pub here in my little town in Poland called the London Pub, they don't serve any food. I am sorry, no offence but calling bangers and mash a reasonable culinary export is, well, laughable.

I didn't lay any claim about Polish cuisine, I never mentioned it except in response to link posted about strange Polish foods.  And I would never describe traditional Polish cuisine as fine dining.  Polish food is good, basic honest food when it's well prepared, but it consists mostly of simply prepared pork, chicken, potatoes, cabbage and root vegetable based dishes.  I enjoy well prepared Polish food but I much prefer Italian, Asian, and other cuisines.  While I have seen Polish restaurants in other countries, they are about as common as British restaurants, which is to say not very, in my experience.

Given the ever changing borders in central and eastern European borders, it's no surprise that the Slavic countries share not only similar languages, but also similar cuisine.  Not that long ago, a good part of western Ukraine was Poland.  And in Polish it's Pirogi by the way.  

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4 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

 

Here is a quote from DT

“ The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.”

You think this is ok? I do not. This whole 'many' justification is BS.

Apples and oranges John.

I thought this discussion was over and here you and Fufkin are blowing on the embers and fanning the flames.  Many people are saying so.

Now I am going to get a bucket of water.  Later.

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38 minutes ago, fufkin said:

Ed Lada, without looking it up, what is the origin of the term, “Mind your P’s and Q’s”?

Hint: It has something to do with British Pub culture, which has exported its fine cuisine to many, not all countries.

The fact that a Dane can roll into a pub in Cascais and order up some Bangers and Mash might count as a reasonable culinary export.

As for laying claim to Polish cuisine, a Ukrainian might have other ideas. The mighty Perogie would be called Poudeheh, the cabbage roll specifically called Holopchi etc etc

Alot of cuisine and religion can easily predate sovereignty.

You went to Cascais and ordered Bangers and mash????????????? :huh:

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Apparently back in the day when patrons of a public house, or pub, would start to get unruly, the bar wench would holler out,

’Mind your Pints and Quarts gentlemen!’

...and no, I don’t have a citation 

...and I would mention that a pub should serve food to be considered a pub

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

You went to Cascais and ordered Bangers and mash????????????? :huh:

Hell no. And I’m not Danish either but I’ll lay good money that there is an enthusiastic Scandinavian demographic that enjoys British Pub culture  while in Australia.

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44 minutes ago, fufkin said:

Apparently back in the day when patrons of a public house, or pub, would start to get unruly, the bar wench would holler out,

’Mind your Pints and Quarts gentlemen!’

...and no, I don’t have a citation 

...and I would mention that a pub should serve food to be considered a pub

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ps-and-qs/

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Come on Ed, this is a sailing site,

In days when seamen styled their hair into long pigtails dipped in tar, the dictum was a prompt to not let their tarred hair (queues) soil their navy pea-jackets (peas).

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9 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Come on Ed, this is a sailing site,

In days when seamen styled their hair into long pigtails dipped in tar, the dictum was a prompt to not let their tarred hair (queues) soil their navy pea-jackets (peas).

I think that's a bit of a stretch! 

It probably wasn't ever mentioned in that context until long after that custom disappeared.

Nature and humans abhor a vacuum, so people will make up almost anything to answer things that they can't otherwise find an explanation for.  :lol:

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2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

  I am pretty well traveled and the only thing close I have seen in many countries in the world are Irish pubs, and many of those don't feature food so much as alcohol.  

  

Just for kicks google English Pub Buenos Aires. Next try Rio. After that Caracas. After that Kuala Lumpur. Then maybe Bangkok. Throw in Santiago. Ho Chi Minh City has a nice pub. Let me think...where else? Moscow?  Definitely. I think there is one there run by a Canadian.  Hong Kong would be too obvious. Manilla? Maybe Singapore for good measure?

You could also narrow or widen your search to include/dislcude the 54 members of the Commonwealth that were formerly part of the British Empire. Many, but not all of them might have pubs.

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If pub fare doesn't quite meet standards to rise to the level of 'cuisine', maybe its time to focus.

Lets up the game in terms of British food exports with a little biscuit that found its purpose out at sea, made from a certain type of flour that would keep during long voyages.

It goes well with foie gras, cheese and has a certain neutrality to it so as to let accompanying foods immerse with one's palate. 

I humbly present the venerable Carr's Water Cracker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carr's

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21 minutes ago, fufkin said:

I humbly present the venerable Carr's Water Cracker.

Meh, I've had that 'humble' cracker.  I got distracted and ate half of the cardboard box they came in and I didn't even notice the difference.

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If you want an example of a British Delicacy you can look to smoked fish: smoked salmon (or trout), kippers, haddock, Smokies, mackerel etc... plus more recent evolutions like Kedgeree...

 If you don't appreciate smoked fish then that says more about your palate than about British cooking..! :-)

Cheers,

              W.

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5 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

If you want an example of a British Delicacy you can look to smoked fish: smoked salmon (or trout), kippers, haddock, Smokies, mackerel etc... plus more recent evolutions like Kedgeree...

 If you don't appreciate smoked fish then that says more about your palate than about British cooking..! :-)

Cheers,

              W.

I am sitting here figuratively trying not to bite my tongue in half.  

Can you please explain to me why smoked fish is a British delicacy?  Do the British do it better than anyone else?  Did they invent the process?  Are British fish more suitable for smoking than other fish?  Do other cultures and countries not smoke fish?

Please tell me so that I can formulate a coherent answer to your post.

Cheers,

               E.

 

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Just now, Ed Lada said:

I am sitting here figuratively trying not to bite my tongue in half.  

Can you please explain to me why smoked fish is a British delicacy?  Do the British do it better than anyone else?  Did they invent the process?  Are British fish more suitable for smoking than other fish?  Do other cultures and countries not smoke fish?

Please tell me so that I can formulate a coherent answer to your post.

Cheers,

               E.

 

No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, they do but not as well.  Please don't bother. 

Thanks,

               W.

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14 minutes ago, WGWarburton said:

No. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, they do but not as well.  Please don't bother. 

Thanks,

               W.

Mr. Warburton has just informed me that the British invented their 'unique' delicacy, smoked fish.  

I was obviously under the mistaken impression that smoking meat or fish is one of the first cooking techniques used by humanoids in the paleolithic era, and is common in almost every part of the world to this day.  Thank goodness that Mr. Warburton set me straight.

I don't mean to be nosy WG, but are you with the Glasgow Warburtons or the Edinburgh Warburtons?  Or god forbid, that renegade branch that moved to Liverpool (shudder).  Oh my, you aren't from the bread Warburtons are you????

Now I am not going to use the ugly 'A' word here, but I think it would be inappropriate in this fine Scottish gentleman's case.  

Not to mentioned that he also clearly insulted my palate, which offends me greatly.

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Man, talk about thread drift. Put a fork in it. 

( See what I did there Eddie)

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If this weather pattern with 15 knots gusting 25 from the north continues, I'll be pretty happy. Don't think we could expect anything much better this time of year!

sanfranweather.thumb.png.f270a3febd1ca952382f74cc895113a4.png

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Better look at the wave height window instead.  How is the surf in Canada? Monterey County beaches are 8 ft at 11 secs.  head high+ waves every 11 seconds.  Good luck getting a cat off the beach in 6 knots of wind.

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Half Moon to Santa Cruz to Monterey to San Simeon to Morro Bay to Port San Luis to Santa Barbara...?  Might be some long, cold nights but you'd probly survive

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perhaps its just me, but I find it kind of bizarre that people keep analyzing this like a keel boat trek. but I guess this itinerary would allow for a burrito at every stop..

2 hours ago, mundt said:

Half Moon to Santa Cruz to Monterey to San Simeon to Morro Bay to Port San Luis to Santa Barbara...?  Might be some long, cold nights but you'd probly survive

 

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point being you don't have to sail on or off any beaches which, in my humble opinion is the (possibly fatal) flaw in the plan.   

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8 minutes ago, mundt said:

point being you don't have to sail on or off any beaches which, in my humble opinion is the (possibly fatal) flaw in the plan.   

is it just me. or why do people keep analyzing this like a camper trip with the kids and old lady..

here ya go: 

image.png.9775d5b0e17596218b8ec39922d9458e.png

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I think the point is with careful planning, scouting, the right equipment, skill, the right timing, and some luck somebody could pull this off.  I do not know how fun it would be and it would be sketchy as hell.  The kid does not have the skill nor the organizational inclination to pull this off successfully and safely.  I think it is basically irresponsible that there are some on this site that actually have been encouraging this trip.  If its just a joke, then I suck for falling for it hook, line, and sinker.

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Let's imagine an experienced climber at the base of a big wall.  An obviously inexperienced youngster without proper equipment and impending bad weather looks to try a very dangerous route up the wall.  Isn't it incumbent on the experienced blokes to offer some friendly advice?  What about spontaneity, you say.  What about seeing a healthy young life go to waste, says I.  I was around when an outrigger carrying a bunch of extremely strong, experienced men flipped only a half mile from the beach in Oxnard.  Several died and I promise you that every one of them would eat Fish Food for breakfast. I truly wish him many great adventures and a long and healthy future.  That'll do it from me.

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7 hours ago, floater said:

perhaps its just me, but I find it kind of bizarre that people keep analyzing this like a keel boat trek. but I guess this itinerary would allow for a burrito at every stop..

 

If I was on a beach cat I would go nowhere near an anonymous burrito. Anyone eating one should be at the back, in any case.

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 "the tradewinds are perfect between the Marquesas and the Tuamotus".. 

 

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On 1/3/2020 at 2:33 AM, Ed Lada said:

Hey there Greasy Al.  I never heard that one do tell.  And in case you didn't know, which in your vast ignorance I'm sure you don't, is that the noun Polak in Polish means a Polish person.  If you want to insult a Polish person, just call them a głupi dupek, a stupid asshole.  

You certainly stepped on your tiny dick this time.  I want to thank for affirming something I have known for some time now.  Thanks for revealing your true self, a pathetic little bigot.  Now why don't you show us that you really have some balls and show us your real name.  Or like any cowardly bigot, you think you can dismiss an entire country full of fine people with a tired old trope.  In your sad attempt at trying to insult me, you have done nothing but reveal what a miserable little piece of shit you really are.  I hope you are proud of yourself for that.  Whatever has gone wrong in your life is up to you to fix Al, hating others won't change anything.     

Are you anti Semitic too?  Probably, because in case you didn't know, of the 6 million Jews murdered in the Holocaust, about half of them were Polaks.  Are you cheering on your fellow bigots in New York City that are assaulting Jewish people solely because they are Jewish?  I bet a lot of them have some Polish blood in them.  Do you make jokes about black people as well?  I'll bet you do, your probably a racist as well.  You sit around with your bigoted friends, making fun of all of those that you have no respect for because it makes you feel better, after all, your just joking.  Sure you are.

You can insult me all you like, you can call me any name you like.  Me Al, not the people I am descended from, just me.  You crossed a line when you try to insult me by denigrating a people that have a noble and proud history, not that an ignoramus such as yourself would know anything about that.

It's all fun and games here right?  We harass each other and poke at each other and trade insults with people we have never met in real life.  It's all fun and games until somebody pokes someone's eye out.  Then it isn't any fun anymore is it?  

Thanks again Al, for showing your true colors.  I have no time for narrow minded, insecure little pieces of shit, hiding behind fake names and spouting their bigotry willy nilly.  You know my real name, I will give you my address and phone number if you like. I'll even invite you to my home, you can meet my lovely wife and my two wonderful dogs and my two wonderful cats.  Imagine that, people, dogs and cats, all living peacefully in the same house.   And I can introduce you to any number of Polish people and you can personally explain to them why you think they are so stupid and why you think jokes about them are so funny.  Most of them will welcome you with traditional Polish hospitality, ply you with good food and good drinks, and be very nice to you and not just punch you in the face.  Ninety nine percent of them, anyway, there's always that one bad apple everywhere.

I have told many of my Polish friends about little, insecure bigots like you telling Polak jokes.  I explain how many people in America think Polish people are all stupid and are the butt of many stupid jokes.  The just kind of look at me funny and ask why would people do something like that when they know nothing about Polish people.  They wonder why some of these Americans do such stupid things and just shake their heads in wonder and pity.  And the funny thing is a lot of Polish people I know want to come to America, they regard America as the pinnacle of freedom and success.  Polish people generally are not afraid of hardship and hard work, if they can better themselves by it.  They want to come to America work hard, and succeed.  I tell them, don't bother, that America has many simple minded fools like yourself, with an air of superiority as they look down on others and make fun of them, just to feel better about their own miserable lives.  I tell them that while there are many good Americans, but it isn't unusual to find complete idiots like you.  You know, a głupi dupek.

Way to go Al, it's greasy little bastards such as yourself that give Americans everywhere a bad name.  You might think you are being funny, or scoring some kind of points in some kind of game.  All you are doing is showing what a sad little man that you really are.  

Say what you will pitiful little man, go ahead and thoughtlessly dismiss 38 million people because you think you are so much better than they are.  I am quite proud of my Polish heritage, and quite comfortable with who I am.  That's why I can insult you, using my real name, and keeping my insults in the realm of your behavior, personality and character, not debasing whatever ancestry you might be.  You are nothing more than some stinking piece of shit that I would have to scrape off of the bottom of my shoe before I go into my house, nothing more.  Thanks for proving that to me.  

  

Snowflake got triggered, it seems.  Maybe it's time to put in a fresh tampon, ed.

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His blog is gone hasnt posted for a while must be in school. 

Sorry Ed if i riled you with the fish heads your ok.

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On 1/8/2020 at 10:39 AM, floater said:

 "the tradewinds are perfect between the Marquesas and the Tuamotus".. 

 

That's impressive as hell, but damn, to run aground. You could hear the pain in his voice. I can only imagine the level of exhaustion. 

1 hour ago, Norse Horse said:

His blog is gone hasnt posted for a while must be in school. 

Sorry Ed if i riled you with the fish heads your ok.

Haven't heard from him since before Christmas, I hope you're not right. Now I'm worried that he's flaked. Just sent him a text to check in.

What the hell would I do for a week in San Fransico, my plane tickets are non refundable.

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37 minutes ago, Vaeredil said:

Thinking more along the lines of sailing-related activities. It's my only chance until northern Ontario thaws out in May

Heh heh, I was going for a chuckle.

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