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Brexit WTF, WTF

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10 hours ago, KC375 said:

And it gets at some really core public policy questions like how much is it the role of government to transfer wealth within society.

One approach to that is through fiscal policy (actually the US has in theory a progressive tax system – except in how it is actually applied).

A less transparent approach is using trade barriers to raise the cost of imports to maintain a “working” wage for those with “less education” – obviously paid for by those with “more education” in inflation and ultimately less total economic output.

Yeah KC it seems the case. The US factor in trade on top of fiscal policy and helped by the Feds monetary policies secure a wider distribution of wealth, or so they say.

The more TB snd NTB barriers (that the US are a fan of, particularly closing one door on China but thinking others open) you do get an emediate rush of say employment dropping, investment rising but not necessarily nationwide.

But as you say, ultimately output drops and you slip backwards.

I'm of the view using trade in that manner is attractive because of short term gains inside the electoral cycle and when the long term pain bites that is the next adminstrations problem. 

Putting aside Coronavirus coming along just as economic numbers were sliding, at least the US are honest and transparent about their economic approach.

In the UK the concept of raising taxes is alien to them, their next major fiscal idea will be their first and they get less afraid of debt by the day even borrowing for running costs. There is not a piece of paper in the UK that remotely resembles a global trade strategy and their about to launch a Brexit 10 point earnings hit on top of a Epidemic 10 point hit. 

So what do that say? Hey let's use this  pandemic to weaponise our "leveling up" election slogan and call it "health and wealth"

If we are lucky no one will ask how we intend to achieve that, when in the last 10 years we have done nothing. 

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I'm betting American espionage.

175 staff at a Anglesey chicken plant in Nth Wales have tested positive for coronavirus, with all of them going into self-isolation.

Seriously meat processing/packing plants are hit hard and worldwide issue. This and one in Germany and to date over a hundred in US and contraversial there when Trump tried to force them back to work. 

The cause is low temperatures and high air circulation keep virus alive at aerosol not droplet size combined with long hours, multiple shifts, close proximity, frenzied production line work where everyone working and breathing hard and difficulty keeping masks properly positioned etc.

A perfect Confid Conga Line.

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I so wish that Hancock fellow would stop wearing that Gram negative tie.  First off, it's a virus, for Boris' sake.  And second - Gram was dutch, so its a Euro test.  Surely there's an english thingy he could promote...

 

Sorry - dansk.

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1 hour ago, crashdog said:

I so wish that Hancock fellow would stop wearing that Gram negative tie. 

He doesn't usually wear a tie.

Ea3ehEOX0AA0tt-.jpeg

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

This one isn't bullshit.

China puts final satellite for Beidou navigation network into orbit

This their 3rd Generation (1st Gen was 3 sats 2000). BeiDou system (BDS-3) 30 Sat constellation.

Unlike the American GPS, Russian GLONASS, and European Galileo systems, which use Medium Earth Orbit (MEO) satellites this BeiDou system (BDS-3) has three GEO satellites, three IGSO satellites, and twenty-four MEO satellites. Pretty serious. 

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47 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

4 years ago today .....Wayne and 17,410,741 other people....ogh dear.

 

IMG_20200623_175902.jpg

And Jack has written over 20000 posts since telling us all how we got it wrong. Think of the time he's wasted, you know the sort of things normal people do like go sailing, like go to the pub and socialise with your mates, oh he hasn't got any because he spends all his time writing about something over which he has absolutely nada input. Tssssk poor sot.

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18 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

And Jack has written over 20000 posts 

And Wayne has written over 20000 replies containing exactly the same offal.... that's a talent.

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23 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Remember predictions of economic costs connected to Brexit were dismissed by many Brexiteers on the grounds that “you can’t predict the future” and "Project Fear." 

I even recall someone saying they can't furnish any reasons to why they voted Leave until 10 years are up after having left. :lol:

In reality, today it is the uncertainty of what Brexit actually means that is creating economic uncertainty now. Their own delusion is finally starting to run over them. 

The paradox now is those who support Brexit don't understand what it means at a practical level, while experts who do understand it at a practical level, don't support it.

The personification of this is the ham fisted bumbling displayed by Gove and Frost at Commitee hearings. What ever they say is either wrong or has to be discarded etc sometimes within days of being uttered. 

Here is a recut of a Bloomberg data/study by the London Economic titled "Brexit set to cost the UK more than £200 billion by the end of the year"

To compound this misery. Brexit is set to have cost the UK more than £200 billion in lost economic growth by the end of 2020. This is almost the total amount the UK has paid into the EU budget over the past 47 years since joining in 1973. In a tragic twist of irony, the scale of the EU payments were central to the Leave campaign’s case for Brexit and “taking back control of our money.”

That case (in bullshit £) put forward by Johnson's Red Bus has actually now evaporated. Where does that leave people if that was their prime case for leaving?

Wayne, you're up................time to own it. <_<

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Admit it Jack, Wayne is your sock.

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14 minutes ago, mad said:

Wayne, you're up................time to own it. <_<

Just think though if we had been out in 12 months with FTA agreements that suited both the EU and the UK and I do stress the EU and the UK, just how much that 200Billion figure could have been reduced. Instead we have the likes of yourself, Jack, the economists of Blomberg ( whom don't exactly have a great track record of predictions ) and a majority, at the time of MP's, although that's no longer the case and hence your whining, all wanting to drag out the whole process in the vain hope we would stay in despite loosing a democratic vote.

At this moment in time its you Remainers who have created and caused the problems, don't blame the Leavers for the problems you are creating by the extraordinary delays .

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8 minutes ago, astro said:

Admit it Jack, Wayne is your sock.

If Wayne was my sock why didn't I make him a smart sock?

images - 2020-06-23T194731.750.jpeg

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We know why Jack.

giphy.gif

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12 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Just think though if we had been out in 12 months with FTA agreements that suited both the EU and the UK and I do stress the EU and the UK, just how much that 200Billion figure could have been reduced. Instead we have the likes of yourself, Jack, the economists of Blomberg ( whom don't exactly have a great track record of predictions ) and a majority, at the time of MP's, although that's no longer the case and hence your whining, all wanting to drag out the whole process in the vain hope we would stay in despite loosing a democratic vote.

At this moment in time its you Remainers who have created and caused the problems, don't blame the Leavers for the problems you are creating by the extraordinary delays .

Own it, Wayne. It's a fuck up now, it's going to get worse and it is absolutely and entirely created by the idiocy of Leave.

 A dazzling example of democracy at its worst. A tyranny of fools.

Britain is diminished, we are the poorer for it and it is deeply sad.

The least you can do is rejoice in what you have achieved. For you, surely, it is worth the cost to he rest of us? Remind me what the benefits are again, would you? 

Thanks,

               W.

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9 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm betting American espionage.

175 staff at a Anglesey chicken plant in Nth Wales have tested positive for coronavirus, with all of them going into self-isolation.

Seriously meat processing/packing plants are hit hard and worldwide issue. This and one in Germany and to date over a hundred in US and contraversial there when Trump tried to force them back to work. 

The cause is low temperatures and high air circulation keep virus alive at aerosol not droplet size combined with long hours, multiple shifts, close proximity, frenzied production line work where everyone working and breathing hard and difficulty keeping masks properly positioned etc.

A perfect Confid Conga Line.

We had similar issues in Brittany.

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24 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Just think though if we had been out in 12 months with FTA agreements that suited both the EU and the UK and I do stress the EU and the UK, just how much that 200Billion figure could have been reduced. Instead we have the likes of yourself, Jack, the economists of Blomberg ( whom don't exactly have a great track record of predictions ) and a majority, at the time of MP's, although that's no longer the case and hence your whining, all wanting to drag out the whole process in the vain hope we would stay in despite loosing a democratic vote.

At this moment in time its you Remainers who have created and caused the problems, don't blame the Leavers for the problems you are creating by the extraordinary delays .

That's a bit rich, leavers control the parliament, they are just unable to organise a piss up in a brewery because they can't agree whether they want to get drunk on bitter or lager!

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Just now, Panoramix said:
27 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Just think though if we had been out in 12 months with FTA agreements that suited both the EU and the UK and I do stress the EU and the UK, just how much that 200Billion figure could have been reduced. Instead we have the likes of yourself, Jack, the economists of Blomberg ( whom don't exactly have a great track record of predictions ) and a majority, at the time of MP's, although that's no longer the case and hence your whining, all wanting to drag out the whole process in the vain hope we would stay in despite loosing a democratic vote.

At this moment in time its you Remainers who have created and caused the problems, don't blame the Leavers for the problems you are creating by the extraordinary delays .

That's a bit rich, leavers control the parliament, they are just unable to organise a piss up in a brewery because they can't agree whether they want to get drunk on bitter or lager!

An 80 seat majority and they still get can't get it organised.

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38 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

At this moment in time its you Remainers who have created and caused the problems, don't blame the Leavers for the problems you are creating by the extraordinary delays .

You might need to see a doctor Wayne...your memory is shot. It was cross party Leavers who kept voting Brexit down not up, three times in fact...including most who today sit around the Cabinet table, incl the guy at the top of the table...and he has been sitting there for nearly a year...over 6 months with 80 seats more in the other place and the UK left the EU 5 months ago... but nothing has happened, nothing sorted or fixed. Bit dissapointing. 

Do you think they have changed their mind but not game to tell?? :lol:  

images (82).png

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At the fourth year after the ref, every day the EU looks smarter and smarter for really not compromising much over Brexit/Keeping the UK inside.

For trade negotiators it is hunting season now, many countries the EU had a deal with know the UK needs a deal with them and on 70 to 80% of goods trade, and have to do that quick. For the UK content does not matter much, they want to say they have a deal making Britannia global. Fuck business.

It is fun to follow the independent trade negotiation experts, they seem to know each other well since an 08 conference and formed a whats app group.
A few trained the UK negotiators as the UK had almost non. They themselves refused to work for the UK as the pay was insultingly low.
But Japan, US, Australia have hired them now as advisors. That is fun, they trained the UK counter persons. Hi William, did you understood my lessons ? And what do you want ?

Japan is now putting pressure on the UK, 6 weeks for a deal, they cannot offer the UK better conditions then the EU deal (MFN rules) but they ask the UK to offer them much better access to their market. Services are almost free to discuss. Instead, one of the UK’s priorities is the rules of origin that let British exporters continue to include European components in products they sell to Japan. Trying desperately to replicate the EU situation while being a 3rd country. And Japan will be protective on agriculture as always.
Liz Truss & Co against veteran Japanese negotiators - What could possibly go wrong in such a short period?
Truss asked that if the UK/Japan deal is not worked out  before Jan 2021, the EU deal still would be in place for the UK. Japan said no to this extension.

Australia is likely to head into this FTA the way it heads into most of them: farms first. Australia is locked out by tariffs from much of the UK market in agricultural sectors where it is strongly competitive including beef, lamb and dairy.
As if UK farming is not already worried...

US to UK, bend over farming.

Meanwhile the UK farming do not have a clue about the replacement of the EU CAP payments next year.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Very cool and instructive.

From the hand of Niko Kommenda - Visual Projects Editor at the Guardian
 

EbLa1dRXsAA3Wo6.jpeg

for me, it looks Covid. 

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2 minutes ago, troll99 said:

for me, it looks Covid. 

for me it looks racist.

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31 minutes ago, astro said:

for me it looks racist.

Yes indeed. London one of the most ethic diverse cities in the world votes Remain. The bits that voted Leave are whiter outer ring boroughs.

images (84).png

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42 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Australia is likely to head into this FTA the way it heads into most of them: farms first. Australia is locked out by tariffs from much of the UK market in agricultural sectors where it is strongly competitive including beef, lamb and dairy.
As if UK farming is not already worried...

US to UK, bend over farming.

Stupidity is some of those barriers are in fact not protecting a large number of UK producers. Pork for example which the UK rely heavily on EU, particularly Belgium. The consumer pays more for a trade barrier achieving what???

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1 hour ago, mad said:

An 80 seat majority and they still get can't get it organised.

To be fair they are just trying to fix the ferk ups of the previous parliament, which were predominantly hoping to delay things long enough to prevent an actual exit. The EU were complicit in that hope.

But look at the damage those delays and indecision has done and then Twats like Mad turn it around and say its all Boris's fault, you guys have such a short memory, but then I guess that's the major difference between Remainers & Leavers, one group has such a narrow blinkered view of life that they can only think of the money in their grubby tiny little mits tomorrow and possibly the day after, the other group thinks in years, possibly decades and not necessarily on a financial basis.

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39 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes indeed. London one of the most ethic diverse cities in the world votes Remain. The bits that voted Leave are whiter outer ring boroughs.

images (84).png

Compare that to a UK map then, note that little tiny patch called London.

image.thumb.png.fa71fc1e10c5467eb29fd768d2e7d63b.png

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27 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

To be fair they are just trying to fix the ferk ups of the previous parliament, which were predominantly hoping to delay things long enough to prevent an actual exit. The EU were complicit in that hope.

Was the hope that UK would remain in EU unlawful or morally wrong?

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1 minute ago, Upp3 said:

Was the hope that UK would remain in EU unlawful or morally wrong?

Depends upon your persuasion :D

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I hoped quite long that UK would stay. Some time after Boris' dead in ditch and extension letter stuff I thought otherwise. And I do admit that at times I hoped that gloves would drop and there would be show of force, mmmurica style, but I'm glad that there has been none. I don't see anything morally wrong in that EU has kept the door open and hoped that UK would reverse the decision to leave. 

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43 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Compare that to a UK map then, note that little tiny patch called London.

image.thumb.png.fa71fc1e10c5467eb29fd768d2e7d63b.png

That "tiny patch called London" represents 14% of the population. 

Taking a look at your graph with population shows that the majority of the hard line vote leave come from sparsely populated areas.

image.thumb.png.9e06a956007aafcca0f85b8bd44e0faa.png

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So NI is out of the UK ???
Missed that news.

UK car production, new numbers;
Will be half of the numbers produced in 2019, could be worse.
EbL6JnhWAAESXDx?format=png&name=small

https://t.co/hBmwGcBzzn?amp=1

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8 minutes ago, LeoV said:

...

UK car production, new numbers;
Will be half of the numbers produced in 2019, could be worse....

half of the numbers produced in 2019, could be will get worse

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Negotiators talk;
the UK has been a demander in trade talks for centuries, then went into talks together with the EU.
Now they are the asking party, and they do not adapt to well to that position.

Next 4 months will be interesting, they are out of the EU, and out of transition in Jan.
UK will be free... but lost a USP, gateway to the EU.

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54 minutes ago, LeoV said:

So NI is out of the UK ???
Missed that news.

UK car production, new numbers;
Will be half of the numbers produced in 2019, could be worse.
EbL6JnhWAAESXDx?format=png&name=small

https://t.co/hBmwGcBzzn?amp=1

And say Germany’s numbers ?

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2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

To be fair they are just trying to fix the ferk ups of the previous parliament, which were predominantly hoping to delay things long enough to prevent an actual exit. The EU were complicit in that hope.

But look at the damage those delays and indecision has done and then Twats like Mad turn it around and say its all Boris's fault, you guys have such a short memory, but then I guess that's the major difference between Remainers & Leavers, one group has such a narrow blinkered view of life that they can only think of the money in their grubby tiny little mits tomorrow and possibly the day after, the other group thinks in years, possibly decades and not necessarily on a financial basis.

Boris was amongst those delaying the process as he was pushing for a holier Brexit. So that's perfectly fair that he takes his share of the blame of the initial delays. Now he's in charge and not doing anything apart trying to gaslight everybody!

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2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

but then I guess that's the major difference between Remainers & Leavers, one group has such a narrow blinkered view of life that they can only think of the money in their grubby tiny little mits tomorrow and possibly the day after, the other group thinks in years, possibly decades and not necessarily on a financial basis.

You maybe right, but I suspect that you and I have different views on which group I categorize in which way.

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UK wants to pay less subsidies for farming (they see holes in their budget), so they want to tariff the EU products that gets CAP money.
EU is not buying it, it was fine when the UK was in the EU, and now when they leave it is not fair.
UK can not demand the EU to change it ways if the UK wants a deal. UK is free to spend as much as the EU.

Go no trade deal and they can fight it on WTO level, good luck, UK is a toothless tiger.
And before that is decided on WTO level, the UK farming is dead.

So the UK leaks it ( they said it was a secret talk and nothing should be published) and spins it as unfair.
It is unfair, but hey, a trade block defends itself. You want market access for your products. You profited decades from the same rules. You even wanted a bigger slice of the CAP.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/23/brexit-talks-hit-by-row-over-eu-subsidies-for-farmers

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1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Now he's in charge and not doing anything apart trying to gaslight and kill everybody!

Fixed

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11 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
1 hour ago, Panoramix said:

Now he's in charge and not doing anything apart trying to gaslight and kill everybody!

Fixed

Interesting nugget from the ONS

In Week 24, the number of deaths in care homes was 199 deaths higher than the five-year average, while in hospitals the number of deaths was 503 fewer than the five-year average; the total number of excess deaths involving COVID-19 continued to decrease.

So the NHS has 503 fewer deaths per week over the last 5 year average, does Boris get the kudos or does the NHS now say its all their good work :D

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending12june2020

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15 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Interesting nugget from the ONS

In Week 24, the number of deaths in care homes was 199 deaths higher than the five-year average, while in hospitals the number of deaths was 503 fewer than the five-year average; the total number of excess deaths involving COVID-19 continued to decrease.

So the NHS has 503 fewer deaths per week over the last 5 year average, does Boris get the kudos or does the NHS now say its all their good work :D

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending12june2020

You know how to do some selective reading... from your link :

Quote

The number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 12 June 2020 (Week 24) was 9,976; this was 733 lower than Week 23 and 5.9% (559 deaths) higher than the five-year average.

The same phenomenon happened at the end of the lockdown here. It is mainly because people in lockdown don't die in car accidents!

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Boris was amongst those delaying the process as he was pushing for a holier Brexit. So that's perfectly fair that he takes his share of the blame of the initial delays. Now he's in charge and not doing anything apart trying to gaslight everybody!

It’s Wayne’s would again. 

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2 hours ago, JohnMB said:

You maybe right, but I suspect that you and I have different views on which group I categorize in which way.

Wayne will get his gold coffin, that’s all that matters to him. 

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23 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The same phenomenon happened at the end of the lockdown here. It is mainly because people in lockdown don't die in car accidents!

Geez really, so all the bollocks that Jack sticks up on this thread then is shall we say a bit flakey and a bit cherry picked, well who would have thought that ?

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

Interesting nugget from the ONS

In Week 24, the number of deaths in care homes was 199 deaths higher than the five-year average, while in hospitals the number of deaths was 503 fewer than the five-year average; the total number of excess deaths involving COVID-19 continued to decrease.

So the NHS has 503 fewer deaths per week over the last 5 year average, does Boris get the kudos or does the NHS now say its all their good work :D

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending12june2020

IMG_20200603_163730.jpg.9f35456142c945ce9068da3f88c73797.jpg

Nice dead cat Wayne.

Lucky you don't work in the Downing St Propoganda Dept. Suggesting that would get you beaten up and kicked out on your arse.

- You omit the total at Week 24 (8 - 14 June) was above the 5 year average. Week 23 was the best week since late March for excess deaths in England & Wales. See graph below.

- The Govt have never mentioned ONS "excess deaths" stats for obvious reasons. At one point they showed Govt undercounting as high as 60%. They stick to their daily utterings based on deaths tested positive when they weren't testing. All as shown in chart below up to week 24 as you clearly don't understand counting methods and lag in counting deaths outside hospitals.

- Hospital counts were going swimmingly after the daily peak in April. However as the attached graph shows deaths outside hospitals were lagging and out of control. Your Week 24 reveal would expose that Govt cover up.

- Finally as following on from the hospital to care home transfer policy, even this Govt are not that stupid to promote a high care home/NHS death differential at any time that highlights the PM is a mass murderer of old people. 

You are not the sharpest pencil are you Wayne.

Week 23 was the best week since late March

EaELedCWAAAjOcF.png

Undercounting by Govt as daily deaths exclude ONS "excess deaths" 

EZwdS0ZWkAAsfwu.png

Showing Daily Excess Deaths by Location and the lag in deaths outside hospitals.

EYjShfVWsAcdjaJ.png

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43 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Geez really, so all the bollocks that Jack sticks up on this thread then is shall we say a bit flakey and a bit cherry picked, well who would have thought that ?

Posted above just for you and anyone suffering Downs Syndrome.

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Don't know how this guy sleeps at night.

Knowing the Governments own written policy for easing lock-down is being ignored, YET says here that is vitally important??

Maybe he has been preparing by watching Nurenburg Trial videos?

- "R" rate has not dropped. 

- Of the four contact/trace/test pillars only one is in place (Tracers)

 

 

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Wayne will get his gold coffin, that’s all that matters to him. 

Enjoying the death of 100 thousands with your pest-face?
Mad has me on ignore because he never can be on the right side.
Squezing his hands in lust to screw people.
tenor.gif

You lost the right track long ago.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Nice dead cat Wayne.

Lucky you don't work in the Downing St Propoganda Dept. Suggesting that would get you beaten up and kicked out on your arse.

- You omit the total at Week 24 (8 - 14 June) was above the 5 year average. Week 23 was the best week since late March for excess deaths in England & Wales. See graph below.

- The Govt have never mentioned ONS "excess deaths" stats for obvious reasons. At one point they showed Govt undercounting as high as 60%. They stick to their daily utterings based on deaths tested positive when they weren't testing. All as shown in chart below up to week 24 as you clearly don't understand counting methods and lag in counting deaths outside hospitals.

- Hospital counts were going swimmingly after the daily peak in April. However as the attached graph shows deaths outside hospitals were lagging and out of control. Your Week 24 reveal would expose that Govt cover up.

- Finally as following on from the hospital to care home transfer policy, even this Govt are not that stupid to promote a high care home/NHS death differential at any time that highlights the PM is a mass murderer of old people. 

You are not the sharpest pencil are you Wayne.

Week 23 was the best week since late March

 

Undercounting by Govt as daily deaths exclude ONS "excess deaths" 

 

Showing Daily Excess Deaths by Location and the lag in deaths outside hospitals.

EYjShfVWsAcdjaJ.png

image.png.d23921efa878dc1e1e3dbc7456065855.png

Considering we are in a Jack Boris gas lighting crisis full of Conservative failure and conspiracy, and Boris has killed everyone according to Panaramix, it looks to me that considering we are in a Pandemic, we are not far off the norm, never good to see the previous spike mind you. 

And the French same excess mortality chart

image.png.413706895528899347482a14e92fda39.png

Love that tail way way way below the norm, well what could have caused that, oh no road deaths of course, that must be it.

 

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3 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Considering we are in a Jack Boris gas lighting   crisis full of Conservative failure and conspiracy, and Boris has killed everyone according to Panaramix, it looks to me that considering we are in a Pandemic, we are not far  off the  norm, never good to see the previous spike mind you . 

Love that tail way way way below the norm, well what could have caused that, oh no road deaths of course, that must be it.

Wayne do some work and formulate a solid opinion to "why you think" it is below the norm. You might find people will listen to you then.

Here is a global chart of global causes of death to help you along if you take up the challenge.

933545899_20200509_WOC412(2).thumb.png.c9c0241595f30573b757b04a55953001.png

Here is some UK historical information underpinning the mean deaths in the excess mortality charts that shows:

- Deaths in prior years for this Government in the weeks 13 to 24 (8 -14 June).

- Deaths have risen significantly with this Tory Government (greater than is the norm with conservative governments) after they were trending down under Labour.

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7 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Interesting nugget from the ONS

In Week 24, the number of deaths in care homes was 199 deaths higher than the five-year average, while in hospitals the number of deaths was 503 fewer than the five-year average; the total number of excess deaths involving COVID-19 continued to decrease.

So the NHS has 503 fewer deaths per week over the last 5 year average, does Boris get the kudos or does the NHS now say its all their good work :D

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending12june2020

IMG_20200603_163730.jpg.9f35456142c945ce9068da3f88c73797.jpg

 

5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You omit the total at Week 24 (8 - 14 June) was above the 5 year average...

PS ......and here are the actual ONS numbers you refered to underwrite your claim. 

Wayne BTW I guarantee you don't try follow through justifying your claim that excess deaths are "below the norm" OR if you do you are very wrong. 

4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Love that tail way way way below the norm,

IMG_20200624_090501.jpg

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The WTO crisis caused by the US not making appointments to the WTO’s Appellate Body is threatening to destroy the world trading system.

This is the US's administration's unspoken intention and people are afraid to say that. A solution must be found.

As posted upthread a joint resolution to withdraw the United States from the World Trade Organization (WTO) was tabled in the Senate on 7 May and the subject of this article 8/5/20 Forbes - Let’s Have That Much Needed Debate About The World Trade Organization.

This is Republican driven domestic rhetoric for abolishing the WTO claiming the Chinese Communist Party has weaponized the WTO to its benefit at the expense of American workers. Note @KC375 :rolleyes:

This an excellent paper examining the issue of precedent and this current impasse and from the hand of those at the pointy end.

Journal of World Trade No 54 2020 - The Rule of Precedent and the Role of the Appellate Body - James BACCHUS* & Simon LESTER**

*Founder member and former Chairman of the Appellate Body of the WTO. ** Founder of WorldTradeLaw.net

A debate on the Senate floor about withdrawing from the WTO is what is needed in the US. That debate could produce a consensus, not for WTO withdrawal, but for WTO reform.

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Is it possible that the Government are way behind public opinion on Brexit? Is this a real case of a Govt taking the country over a cliff it doesn't want to jump off anymore and shockingly the Govt know that but won't reconsider their approach??

Compare these two things

Remember the UK's income strength is Services not Goods/Making Stuff. It is proven that for Services to prosper education, frictionless movement of people and immigration support is paramount.

ONE

“Opinion polls suggest there has been a major shift in UK public opinion on the matter, with voters simultaneously becoming both much less concerned about immigration and much more positive about its impacts.” 

Immigration between the referendum and Brexit

TWO

"I arrived in the UK at 18 to study & 8 years on I have over 6 years of work experience and just done my PhD. None of this would have happened without home fees."

EU students lose home status and loan access in England from 2021

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^^^^^^^

In a similiar vein.

Four years ago, I voted for Brexit. If only I'd known then what we all know now

Interesting observation middle and at the end below... it is little wonder Brits as a whole don't feel European. In fact Europeans probably understand the Brits more than the Brits do of themselves.

"Back in 2016, it seemed that there were people – and I exaggerate a little – who didn’t care a damn about losing their job or watching their kids being made redundant, provided that immigration came down. (The biggest Leave votes were in areas with the most to lose in terms of jobs, such as the northeast.) Allied to that was the argument that Britain was being pushed around by some alien imperial bureaucracy. That was why the “take back control” slogan had such a visceral appeal."

"In the media, our political discourse is still entirely national; we don’t watch an EU finance minister, say a French centrist, arguing with a Spanish leader of the EU opposition about cutting taxes. The customs union, the single market, the euro, the flag, the anthem, and direct elections and powers for the European parliament have all failed to create a European political identity that commands wider respect, let alone loyalty.

And that is what went wrong four years ago"

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This is from the other side of the orange and not a lot of UK press except FT.

Financial Review - Japan has given the UK just six weeks to strike a post-Brexit deal.

"Boris Johnson’s government under pressure to agree one of the fastest trade negotiations in history — and Britain’s first in more than 40 years."

Financial Times - Japan rushes UK to agree first post-Brexit trade deal

That Brexiteers belief that the UK could do better trade deals than the EU is fantasy has long been obvious. But its dismissive treatment by Japan now is a brutal reminder of how little international respect and influence post-Brexit Britain commands. Welcome Little Britain.

An example. A common assumption in the UK is Japan is more doable than deals with the likes of US, Aust and NZ who put agricultural access down on the table first. Hence this it's 2nd Japan announcement this year. They are in for a shock. Japan is just as if not maybe more protectionist of its agricultural sector. Of the few with access is Japan's fellow 11 members in its Pacific trade block the CPTPP. 

The UK/Liz Truss is running around trying drum up support amoungst those 11 countries to allow the UK to join that trade block so it can erode their market share. WTF.

And now, it gets even better. Word is that Japan, Aust and NZ will definitely block UK membership of CPTPP, one of the Brexiteers’ most prized goals, unless they get everything, that is everything, they want in their own bilateral deals with the UK. The numbers "eye watering"..UK chasing £1 billion extra from from Aust with deal compared to giving up a guaranteed £300 billion EU and with 3rd party exports incl to CPTPP countries (like Aust) that go up in value every year ....but it all goes up in smoke in 6 months. :o

These people are clueless and Japan looks as though it is experimenting on behalf of the block incl Aust and NZ etc on seeing how clueless someone so desperate is to strike a trade deal for appearances sake domestically can be, OR send them packing.

It's like being in the Coliseum in Rome (where one combatant declared economic war on itself first before entering the ring so arriving with only one leg and one arm so keeps toppling over)....except you only have one thumb direction to chose from.

PS. Japan was very generous giving them 6 weeks to sign what they will be given.

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16 hours ago, JonRowe said:

Taking a look at your graph with population shows that the majority of the hard line vote leave come from sparsely populated areas.

Jon as you point out Wayne is not good with graphs. He misses the "woods for the trees" all the time. On purpose OR just thick..take your pick it's a binary question, the sort he struggles with as not knowing what's behind his answer until 10 years after uttering it. :lol:

The biggest Leave votes were in areas with the most to lose in terms of jobs, such as the the Midlands, the north, coastal brown towns and Wales. The irony of course is that those who opposed Brexit in 2016 have comparatively less to lose. This is even more pronunced post CoVid UK economy. Wayne is in a most to lose postcode. 

Therefore while he refuses to admit it, the remaining arguments in those postcodes was simple. Immigration and that Britain was being pushed around by the "alien EU imperial bureaucracy."

Yet an immigration stance when having no idea that the UK was outside Schengen, was free to set immigration policy, even like those inside Schengen such as Belgium. It was their own Govt not EU membership that caused their immigration complaint and one a majority voted for 6 years previous.

If that not enough of a signal since the referendum EU immigrants departed and to keep the country going the UK has had to increase intake with non EU citizens. The Government did that twice being post 2012 and post 2016 for the purpose of weaponising immigration again at the next election (which ended up being two early elections in 2017 and 2019) See graph. The Govt are even doing it today by their BLM approach of dividing that along political lines. That is fucking despicable.

Then to add insult to injury complying with the "alien EU imperial bureaucracy" is a myth promoted by Brexiteers. That myth no better exposed than by Johnson himself this time last year campaigning to be PM. The famous "Kipper Pillow" from the Isle of Man where he didn't know/remember it is not in the EU and the Kipper rule a UK one. Or the "plain fucking dumb" being we will "take back control" and set our "own rules with the EU."

That is akin to the UK building a bridge from one side, getting to the middle and screwed. From the most simple of driving your own car to the EU on that bridge with a pet on the backseat to complex data laws governing services or 80% of UK trade with EU etc.

So hot suckered by a “take back  control” slogan had such a visceral appeal in those particular postcodes in 2016.

Then guess what this was no bloody accident. Same postcodes suckered again last December when they visited the ballot box and with FPTP voting their voice amplified by seat number with minority of the total vote. No more 52/48 it's a 80 seat majority to bully everyone with, incl those that voted for them that have regrets.

That really is a special case of "ballot box stupid" to make the same fuckups on simple things twice or more times.

The Brexiteers Immigration Hoax

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Got to the stage where "they know they are lying," "the public knows they are lying" and "they know the public knows they are lying." 

Johnson rejects demand for urgent inquiry into his handling of pandemic

So whats next after that??? and fuck off with your Inquiry into me.

Like "they know the public knows they are cunts and want them gone but they won't go?"

Meanwhile an epidemic response that has put 70K in the grave and chalked up world records... trundles on guided by the public public relations department.

IMG_20200624_174828.jpg

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14 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Geez really, so all the bollocks that Jack sticks up on this thread then is shall we say a bit flakey and a bit cherry picked, well who would have thought that ?

Why?

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Jack are your paid for researchers running out of things to do as Covid starts to be less of a headline ( I notice that you haven't publicly stated that you don't use researchers or such to write and find much of what you post here ), you seem to have got back onto Brexit again at long last. Yeah lets watch the loser continue to waste his time.

Interesting that you still want to say the Ballot box has been deceived twice, isn't that the case virtually every time an election takes place, we never seem to get what we vote for and that's not unique to the UK. Four years later and despite a democratic vote where it was the largest ever turnout in a UK vote, we are still going through the throws of bumbling bureaucrats and politicians dithering and dicking about over will we won't we. Who ever would say a negotiator that takes 5 years to pull off a deal is a great highly trained man or women, obviously hasn't worked in private enterprise, longer than 3 months and you would be fired and looking for new employment. As my mate who works in Whitehall has had to dumb down his retraining course for civil servants 4 times as too many were failing, I guess its the norm.

But although you write profusely away, well not just you, but your team, what are you going to do to directly change the way the UK government thinks about Brexit ?  At the moment you are just like a good fart, hot wind that dissipates away at the first hint of a bit of wind only for another fart to appear a few hours later. Writing here is not going to swing anything other than have a few acolytes like CuMS and Mad oohing and aaahing over your prose.  Surely you have to run as a candidate for the next election. You had better get your party organisation together and up and running now as its only 3 years away.

But in true form of the likes of Jack, I guess you prefer the anonymity of your computer where you would not be under pressure from the media hacks.

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The Government refuse to discuss with the manufacturing industry the benefits of their Brexit regulatory divergence in great detail. Reason is simple. The Government haven't a fucking clue what it is.

They lodge a tarriff schedule in May then row back from it in June. They are employing 50K customs officers as late as early June. Mid June limited UK in bound checks. 

So industry is now starting to support publications like this where the underlying message is fuck you Government ....you have had long enough and fucked us around long enough..we have had enough.

Now Covid-19 has blown away all Brexit bullshit assumptions about growth, UK business is about to feral is my guess.

Manufacturing & Brexit

Manufacturing makes up a tenth of the economy, but almost half of exports and a big employer.

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46 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Jack are you_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________under pressure from the media hacks.

Just posted just for you Wayne ....you sure write a lot of words and say nothing.

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wayne BTW I guarantee you don't try follow through justifying your claim that excess deaths are "below the norm" OR if you do you are very wrong. 

Bump.....I thought so.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Just posted just for you Wayne ....you sure write a lot of words and say nothing.

No public rebuke of you using researchers, probably paid for, to write your waffle here on SA, tssskkk,

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wayne BTW I guarantee you don't try follow through justifying your claim that excess deaths are "below the norm" OR if you do you are very wrong. 

Bump.....I thought so.

3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

Really no need to, the ONS graph to week 24 I enclosed was clear that the excess deaths was still above the norm, but getting closer every week. You need to be able to read graphs Jack.

However the French rate on the French graph I enclosed was altogether different, it shows a lower than normal excess rate. I guess as we are probably 2 -3 weeks behind the French, the UK possibly may well do the same, only time will tell that for sure.

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10 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Really no need to, the graph I enclosed was clear that the excess deaths was still above the norm, 

Really above the norm now. Lying little cunt aren't you.

Amending posts after replies not a good look either.

15 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

And the French same excess mortality chart

 image.png.413706895528899347482a14e92fda39.png

Love that tail way way way below the norm, well  what could have caused that, oh no road deaths of course, that must be it.

 

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15 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

image.png.d23921efa878dc1e1e3dbc7456065855.png

Considering we are in a Jack Boris gas lighting crisis full of Conservative failure and conspiracy, and Boris has killed everyone according to Panaramix, it looks to me that considering we are in a Pandemic, we are not far off the norm, never good to see the previous spike mind you. 

And the French same excess mortality chart

image.png.413706895528899347482a14e92fda39.png

Love that tail way way way below the norm, well what could have caused that, oh no road deaths of course, that must be it.

 

Just for your info Jack, I'll repost my original post.

Or are you trying to twist my words by only showing the French mortality rate which does show a lower than norm.

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14 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

No public rebuke of you using researchers, probably paid for, to write your waffle here on SA, tssskkk,

Wayne you are so piss weak you can't even defend your own postcode son.

6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Jon as you point out Wayne is not good with graphs. He misses the "woods for the trees" all the time. On purpose OR just thick..take your pick it's a binary question, the sort he struggles with as not knowing what's behind his answer until 10 years after uttering it. :lol:

The biggest Leave votes were in areas with the most to lose in terms of jobs, such as the the Midlands, the north, coastal brown towns and Wales. The irony of course is that those who opposed Brexit in 2016 have comparatively less to lose. This is even more pronunced post CoVid UK economy. Wayne is in a most to lose postcode. 

Therefore while he refuses to admit it, the remaining arguments in those postcodes was simple. Immigration and that Britain was being pushed around by the "alien EU imperial bureaucracy."

 

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wayne is in a most to lose postcode. 

Sorry live just outside of London, not in the Midlands, We are in probably the best of both worlds with Brexit, we'll loose some, win some and hence we voted right on 52 / 48% to leave.

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Just now, Waynemarlow said:

Sorry live just outside of London, not in the Midlands, We are in probably the best of both worlds with Brexit, we'll loose some, win some and hence we voted right on 52 / 48% to leave.

the classic schizophrenia symptom :lol: 

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24 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

No public rebuke of you using researchers, probably paid for, to write your waffle here on SA, tssskkk,

So are we assuming correctly you are spending your inheritance paying for researchers to support your SA addiction ?

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8 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So are we assuming correctly you are spending your inheritance paying for researchers to support your SA addiction ?

Now expecting the answer to be "no" based on a technical use of words, I'll rephrase that question.

So are we assuming correctly you are using researchers to support your SA addiction ?

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8 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Just for your info Jack, I'll repost my original post.

Or are you trying to twist my words by only showing the French mortality rate which does show a lower than norm.

Wayne the other graph you posted is Daily Deaths and not Excess Mortality so totally irrelevant.

I did warn you with a comparison graph, a table of the actual ONS numbers you misrepresented and still you plough on son compounding your fuck up.

One really has to be at the far end of the stupid scale to do that...or so wedded to combating any critisism of the Govt on account it fucks with their Brexit religion, so also don't challenge the Government over their shambolic CoVid response.

That is one really fucked up place to be.

16 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The Govt have never mentioned ONS "excess deaths" stats for obvious reasons. At one point they showed Govt undercounting as high as 60%. They stick to their daily utterings based on deaths tested positive when they weren't testing. All as shown in chart below up to week 24 as you clearly don't understand counting methods and lag in counting deaths outside hospitals.

Undercounting by Govt as daily deaths exclude ONS "excess deaths" 

EZwdS0ZWkAAsfwu.thumb.png.6954b612dc5b9b3de0007fe42939dcec.png

11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

PS ......and here are the actual ONS numbers you refered to underwrite your claim. 

IMG_20200624_090501.jpg.da5849f099cbb8d40fc50368304af810.jpg

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So are we assuming correctly you are using researchers to support your SA addiction ?

Who is we?? 

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22 minutes ago, troll99 said:

the classic schizophrenia symptom :lol: 

Troll there does appear to be a strong schizophrenic pattern emerging here. :lol:

IMG_20200624_211449.jpg

IMG_20200624_211815.jpg

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21 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wayne the other graph you posted is Daily Deaths and not Excess Mortality so totally irrelevant.

I did warn you with a comparison graph, a table of the actual ONS numbers you misrepresented and still you plough on son compounding your fuck up.

One really has to be at the far end of the stupid scale to do that...or so wedded to combating any critisism of the Govt on account it fucks with their Brexit religion, so also don't challenge the Government over their shambolic CoVid response.

That is one really fucked up place to be.

So the Graph I displayed clearly states at the top right hand corner " weekly deaths ", its from the repudiated ONS website and they clearly state all UK deaths, so whats irrelevant about it other than it is displayed as a line graph whereas yours is a bar graph. For ferk sake what a twat, I bet you were the man everybody organising a sailing event hated to see on the entry list. They knew that you would arrive with your latest toys, come 3rd or 4th and then protest everybody above you, everyday. They knew that you would sap the energy out of the organising team from the moment you got there and yet at the end of the event you would simply pack you kit and leave without one offer of help for the next event. 

Sorry I'm not a great fan of this Conservative government as its full of tossers much like Jack, full of hot air and little experience other than the silver spoon fed to them from the day of their birth, but then the official opposition is probably worse as they have only ever been union or political animals and never ever worked to support growing business's.

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19 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

So the Graph I displayed clearly states at the top right hand corner " weekly deaths ", its from the repudiated ONS website and they clearly state all UK deaths, 

OK don't believe me ...go read the ONS fine print for that graph at time of publication dickhead...sorry dickheads. 

 

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If Whyne was sane or deranged he could not keep this up. A cross of puppet and bot?

Who is working him?

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2 minutes ago, cms said:

If Whyne was sane or deranged he could not keep this up. A cross of puppet and bot?

Who is working him?

The Federalist: John McAfee: Social Media Is Designed To Censor ...

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5 minutes ago, cms said:

If Whyne was sane or deranged he could not keep this up

There is no OR...there is two Waynes.

2 hours ago, troll99 said:

the classic schizophrenia symptom :lol: 

 

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PMQ's

Poor Sammy thick as a brick and still doesn't know the DUP are under a bus. Larne BTW is already a single market sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) port and expansion necessary as of January 1 a dual market port.

Johnson just lies his guts out about the Irish Protocol with impunity while the speaker looks on saying nothing.

Business as usual.

 

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Unbelievable.....around 40 countries...he is now beyond a joke.

Taiwan a few weeks ago one positive at a club then contacted, traced and isolated thousands of people in days.

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