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Brexit WTF, WTF

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The Government's "dead cat" of quarantining it's border to preserve the UK as a "CoVid Free Zone" is now really starting to stink up the room.

Note: Todays reality is read UK as England. These are official not 67k "excess mortality"

Ebl5juEWkAUu4VJ.jpeg

 

IMG_20200628_223809.jpg

Table courtesy Edwin

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Most EU members have now approved an initial list of “safe” countries whose citizens will be allowed to travel to the EU/Schengen area** as of 1 July. The US is not on that list. UK is in no man's land apparently as list prepared with EU27 solidarity in mind as power obviously rests with each state.

This is still fluid and WIP as some EU countries still have borders closed to others such as Sweden.

Criteria for EU access includes virus infection rate but also the efficacy of the non-EU country’s healthcare and test, track and trace system plus the transparency of its health data as well as reciprocity issue: ie if country allows EU/Schengen citizens to travel there 

** Schengen Area

Courtesy katya adler @BBCkatyaadler
 

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Hard Brexiteers’ warning: The Eurosceptic European Research Group of Conservative MPs wrote to the EU’s Chief Negotiator Michel Barnier insisting that a deal could not mean that “the U.K. continues to follow EU laws and judgements.”

eeh, you are in the UK government, no need to write letters... and change your name, it is pathetic.

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Touching on Leo earlier about residency.

Officially tax paying residents since 2018.

Started citizenship applications. Couldn't be deported till 5 years after residency, but after? Better prove we meet criteria now. Income test as per residency, so OK, and no problems with the rest.

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18 minutes ago, cms said:

Touching on Leo earlier about residency.

Officially tax paying residents since 2018.

Started citizenship applications. Couldn't be deported till 5 years after residency, but after? Better prove we meet criteria now. Income test as per residency, so OK, and no problems with the rest.

Lots of potential minefields. What if you fancy a cruise around the med for a season, and stay over the 183 days. Not resident elsewhere as a mix of countries, but not staying in France? I won't be travelling so extensively for work any more until I have the passport!

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CMS, after 2020,  if you travel to Denmark as UK French resident, do you need to have a travel insurance for if you end up in hospital ? France can not reimburse for a UK resident , UK will not, so who is going to pay ?

background; People from non-EU countries who are legally residing in the EU and are covered by a state social security scheme are also eligible for a card. However, nationals from non-EU countries cannot use their EHIC for medical treatment in Denmark, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

Will you need insurance to visit the UK or Channel Islands ?

Or do I mix things up ?

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On 6/21/2020 at 8:14 PM, jack_sparrow said:

 

People wonder why the UK's Coronavirus response is so fucked compared to other countries. 

211681088_UKCV19.JPG.a0fff2d5b4d463bbc17ecf5771c80564.JPG1056946656_USCV19.JPG.5b27fba070de7c9cd7e21b58bdd73f05.JPG1450006881_UKmortality.thumb.JPG.c640aa08a15b9f41a713da26c363e840.JPG411030502_USADeathsCV19.JPG.bb39f3ec98d98c717e735d7f49c55c39.JPG

THus far Uk has managed a decline from the peak with a mortality of .0642.  In North East we have a mortality of .15 (more than double UK) and now we are rolling around to other parts of the country and dont appear to have reached a peak.

As someone who was on call during the peak in the North East I truly hope for the spread to dwindle elsewhere ,,,,,but I may be hoping for a miracle.

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If you have a immigration case before the Home Office, you could even be an illegal things are sweet. It seems providing you have been caught in the act and everyone knows what you did, you're free to go.

This smirking immoral piece of work should be hosed out on the street.

 

 

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Real asset to Labour. They are in short supply.

Imagine if you asked the same question of Tory's about Johnson??.... just as an enthusiastic answer?

 

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General consensus on Twitter is Johnson's new toy doesn't look right.... the flag is streaming "up" not "aft".... thus giving the impression it is not flying but Johnson is falling from the sky. 

Some say with one side upside down Johnson is in distress.

Omens or wishful thinking? :lol:

Eba9L8NWoAAPQdU.jpeg

EbYtD2fWkAcZnjD.jpeg

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

CMS, after 2020,  if you travel to Denmark as UK French resident, do you need to have a travel insurance for if you end up in hospital ? France can not reimburse for a UK resident , UK will not, so who is going to pay ?

background; People from non-EU countries who are legally residing in the EU and are covered by a state social security scheme are also eligible for a card. However, nationals from non-EU countries cannot use their EHIC for medical treatment in Denmark, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

Will you need insurance to visit the UK or Channel Islands ?

Or do I mix things up ?

Spot on Leo. Exactly why we are going from residents to French citizens. Only safe way until some reciprocal agreements are in place.

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

...

Institute for Public  Policy Reform a "think tank' in 2014.

 

I have two reactions to that  video of Cummings talking about government.

1.     I spent a few years in government (ministerial aid), and a few years lobbying government in Canada and a few years running a business that sold services to multiple government departments in the UK. It seems to me Cummings is very accurate and sensible in his observations about the dysfunction of public administration and its root in nature of the people, the experience of the people and the processes within which the people in politics and the public sector operate.

2.     I recall reading a quote by Machiavelli – (but I can’t seem to validate the exact wording) that went something like: “the quality of the counsel depends more on the wit of the prince than of the counsellor”...I think Cummings could be a brilliant advisor to someone with a strong intellect and clear sense of purpose and conviction. Boris is not that person.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

General consensus on Twitter is Johnson's new toy doesn't look right.... the flag is streaming "up" not "aft".... thus giving the impression it is not flying but Johnson is falling from the sky. 

 

But Jack  everything on Twitter has to be true, especially if it fits the narrative.

Wrong again I’m afraid. Maybe the folks who frequent Twitter are perhaps not so bright as to be able to work out the reverse side of an image.

https://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-a-Union-Jack-Has-Been-Hung-Upside-Down

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3 hours ago, KC375 said:

I have two reactions to that  video of Cummings talking about government.

/snip

I find that Cummings' weak grasp of complexity makes it difficult to continue to listen.  Of course, I must be disciplined and try.  And when I do, I find that the use of the complexity argument is a device to support the core supposition of the venal at the heart of humanity, rather than a mechanic to develop multi-dimensional models of human behaviour.  So in Cummings little hands it becomes a heuristic device to explain the heuristic of organisational behaviour. 

So for Cummings and thereby, for the whole lot of them,  the argument becomes "my cartesian framework is better than your cartesian framework".  This explains the focus on sharp, short messaging - "Stay Alert" or "Save the NHS" rather than on substance, because _any_ cartesian framework will be woefully insufficient in a 3+1 dimensional framework, much less in a 6+ dimensional analytic field like is currently considered in real life systems or many multiples of that in a truly complex system.

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4 hours ago, KC375 said:

I think Cummings could be a brilliant advisor

Could be, but he is not saying anything brilliant, as brilliancy is thinking about something in a new way. This kind of words have been around since Thatcher and been published a hundred times in reports. And populist politicians do not care about efficient government, they play the mood to stay in power.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/dominic-cummings-machiavel-downing-street

In Cummings’s writings, he can at times skewer himself. He writes contemptuously of how MPs lack experience “managing complex projects”, but his greatest entrepreneurial feat was running a think-tank in 2004 that lasted 15 months. When it is useful, he leans on the traditional left-right binary of politics; then elsewhere he says it has no relation to reality. And he rails against Britain’s tendency to select leaders from “a subset of Oxbridge egomaniacs with a humanities degree”, yet fails to see himself in the mirror. It is as if there are two people: Cummings the thinker and Cummings the operator, and the former would not judge the latter kindly.

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42 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Could be, but he is not saying anything brilliant, as brilliancy is thinking about something in a new way. This kind of words have been around since Thatcher and been published a hundred times in reports. And populist politicians do not care about efficient government, they play the mood to stay in power.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/dominic-cummings-machiavel-downing-street

In Cummings’s writings, he can at times skewer himself. He writes contemptuously of how MPs lack experience “managing complex projects”, but his greatest entrepreneurial feat was running a think-tank in 2004 that lasted 15 months. When it is useful, he leans on the traditional left-right binary of politics; then elsewhere he says it has no relation to reality. And he rails against Britain’s tendency to select leaders from “a subset of Oxbridge egomaniacs with a humanities degree”, yet fails to see himself in the mirror. It is as if there are two people: Cummings the thinker and Cummings the operator, and the former would not judge the latter kindly.

I mostly agree...that's why I would see Cummings as an adviser, certainly not as an operator. It is up to the "prince" to determine what advice to take onboard. I will say I did find some good managers coming out of the UK "public sector" if you could call it that. I had a number of ex military officers (but not upper crust) in my management team and they were brilliant. They were good managers with minimal whining. One of them courageously defused a very charged situation with a client - simply calmly speaking the truth as he saw it taking responsibility for our screw ups and calmly telling the client CEO about the parts screwed up on their side.

I complimented him on his demeanor afterwards. He didn't see the situation as at all stressfull. As he put it, if people have tried to kill more than a few times with an AK47, you learn that nothing really traumatic is going to happen in a boardroom.

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6 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Wrong again I’m afraid. Maybe the folks who frequent Twitter are perhaps not so bright as to be able to work out the reverse side of an image.

https://www.wikihow.com/Know-if-a-Union-Jack-Has-Been-Hung-Upside-Down

So it's now a flimsy see and through plane and will fold up in mid air.....will add that to the list.

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

/snip

EbYtD2fWkAcZnjD.jpeg

OK, I wasn't going to do this, but I had a big slosh of gin while sitting on the boat this afternoon, and now that I am back home...

In Jack's first image - the fly end is on the right, the hoist on the left, as shown flying below

LARGE 5ft X 3ft 5'x3' UNION JACK BRITISH UK NATIONAL FLAG ...

If the aircraft is flying, you could imagine that the fly end of the flag would be toward the stern, not the bow.  In which case, it would look like:

UK Flag Wallpapers - Wallpaper Cave

With the nose of the aircraft on the right, , then the tail would show as on the aircraft.  It is correct.    I am not so sure about what appears to be the long pennant from the nose, however.  That's just spurious design.  Anyway, not sure that a Boris pennanting off is the right thing to display.  There should be a city flag in there, yes?

 

 

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Cummings' take on how science works is laughably simplistic, and his inability to understand even these basic concepts makes everything else he says equally ridiculous, and hence his current influence very dangerous. I've had the "pleasure" of working with a few people like him, who are smart enough to read scientific papers and think they have understood, but not having actually understood, and a proportion of our business has been fixing the ensuing cockups. He goes a step further by also lacking the moral judgement about what he should do, as opposed to what he can do, as I've mentioned before.

As one simple example, to add to Crashdog's keen observations above, he looks at the civil service and sees failure and waste. He also sees incompetence and a lack of meritocracy, which are valid observations in some instances. With one view validated, he has validated all views, in his view. He looks across at science and industry, a distant view in his case as he has no real experience, and sees success, efficiency, and an apparent ruthless approach to discarding failure. He sees this because practically all that is published by science and industry is success, he never gets to see or read about the vast majority of programmes, both commercial and scientific, that "fail" before success is finally achieved. Science doesn't discard failure, it dissects it to learn from it, and publishes it in a positive light once success is achieved, to keep the funding flowing.

The scientific and industrial communities are vast and highly varied, and, critically, highly interconnected, and thus have the luxury of being able to try, either virtually or really, an equally vast array of options to achieve a successful outcome. Each department in the civil service has to try and solve their problems in-house, and in a politically-constrained time-frame. He thinks government is about getting things done, but it isn't, it is about getting the right things done, and more important is not doing the wrong things.

When science has to deal with life-critical problems where it can't just simulate or experiment with every option, it gets very complex, very quickly. The kind of complexity that looks messy, full of failure and waste, from the outside, pretty much like he describes the civil service.

At least his motivation for Brexit is clear, flawed as it may be. He wants to cut down government to a simple level that he can understand and control, and can't do so with the EU's limitations imposed. He fails to understand that these "limitations" come about through a group of governments negotiating an agreed moral position of how countries can best interact with each other in a positive way. They exist to help governments avoid doing the wrong things. He doesn't understand wrong from right, and thus only sees restrictions.

It's no coincidence that all trading blocks apply similar limitations on their members, because they have had similar evolutionary pressure on their development. Cummings wants revolution, not evolution, because it is the only way he can apply his ideas, which have long ago been shown to not work in other settings, including in science, and the tragic cycle will be repeated.

It is called revolution for a reason, round and round.

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To explain the above "simplistic" and "dangerous" statement further (skip if you are bored):

Cummings states that everything should be run by small teams, including a 6 person cabinet. He justifies this because science and industry tend to do R&D in small teams. What he fails to see is that they have many small teams, all working at the same problem from different directions. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of a very basic principle.

However, if you have a 6 person cabinet, then you have the views of only 6 people, on every subject involved in government. But if you hand-pick the six from people who agree with you, then you have at best 2-3 views. If you then control them so they are scared for their livelihoods and pensions, you have 1 view. That is called a dictatorship, and that is what he wants, and is creating.

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14 hours ago, KC375 said:

I have two reactions to that  video of Cummings talking about government....

1....It seems to me Cummings is very accurate and sensible in his observations about the dysfunction of public administration and its root in nature of the people, the experience of the people and the processes within which the people in politics and the public sector operate. 

1.....I think Cummings  could be a brilliant advisor to someone with a strong intellect and clear sense of purpose and conviction. Boris is not that person.

9 hours ago, LeoV said:

Could be, but he is not saying anything brilliant, as brilliancy is thinking about something in a new way. This kind of words have been around since Thatcher and been published a hundred times in reports. And populist politicians do not care about efficient government, they play the mood to stay in power....

 

I agree KC and it applies to many public administration's. However remember it is not just administrations but the governance/constitutions from atop that also come into play depending on the quantum of change.

Leo populist and worse, populist and inept Governments have a "shelf-life" and Cummings knows that. They need a totalitarian framework in place and pronto before the public mood changes or things outside their control occur. Would anyone have predicted 4 months ago that the Johnson Governments approval rating would be in the toilet by June?

As to Cummings utterences.

You have to draw a line BETWEEN his "observations about the dysfunction of public administration" AND then parliamentary debate, (also a public/stakeholder conversation) over the "strategy and methodology" to correct it. Particularly one that entails a radical departure from long held conventions and governance, in the UK's case some going back hundreds of years.  

BUT in this case there hasn't been any debate at all, in fact it was deliberately hidden at the time of a General Election with none of this appearing in the Government's manifesto. It has even been hidden from the party membership and prospective MP's from which the executive secure the keys to Downing Street. 

Noting Cummings place in Downing Street was only settled after the election, even he admits it requires deception and the strength of numbers on the floor of Parliament to prosecute his strategy. 

In his own words about making unelected persons Ministers;  "That would be on my to-do list if I ever managed to get into Number 10... one of the first things I would do is put a Order of Council through at 2.00am giving the Prime Minister the right to do this (appoint unelected persons Ministers)." At 35.55 

This in fact was done exactly as he said 6 years sgo, by appointing unelected Nicky Morgan to the House of Lords then making her Culture Minister. What Ministerial position is next up for grabs next and for who?

These utterings of Cummings of course are not new. 

The German middle-class, more so than the upper and lower classes of the 1930's, were very traditional and concerned politically about Weimar democracy. Hitler promised them he would "drain the Weimar swamp" and create a strong, accountable and more efficient government. However upon the July 1932 election giving the Nazi Party 230 seats in the Reichstag and a majority, Hitler then went about turning the Weimar into a Totalitarian State.

With no public/stakeholder conversation and no parliamentary debate over the "strategy and methodology" that Cummings promoted 6 years ago and is now employing, all we are left with now is to assess outcomes against the changes made since last July.

They aren't pretty so I will pull them together as one post, which when you read that, it is very much WTF.

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15 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

As someone who was on call during the peak in the North East I truly hope for the spread to dwindle elsewhere ,,,,,but I may be hoping for a miracle.

Eye these charts say you worked bloody hard and should now shut the door on those from the south and the west.

That "blue" dot in bottom right chart is Memorial Day 29 May. Add a month for incubation, testing, hospitalisation and acute care vacancy drops... you know the rest...that timing point seems to be about to hit.

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EbT6KkiVAAEaA1v.jpeg.76af2dca7ea7660ef2990be8fc695524.jpeg

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8 hours ago, KC375 said:

I mostly agree...that's why I would see Cummings as an adviser, certainly not as an operator.

Mostly is a lot on a forum :)

Cummings has the problem that he is a political advisor with the job of keeping BJ in power, and self professed operator in cleaning the civil service.
He could have shown he is capable of both in the new crises that happened and in which he played a role;
Ventilator challenge; a joke and failed.
Testing labs; setup one private owned big lab, many experts warned Sage (with Cummings on board) that that would kill more people and was avoidable by just improving the existing labs (as many countries did). Result is was one big mess.

Then there is the problem of him agreeing on, we do not need experts (during Vote Leave campaign), and now they are needed ?
And Jenrick latest gaffe, as housing minister. His staff said, do not do it, it is tax fraud, Jenrick pushed for it. Jenrick should be fired by Cumm the operator, but his political advice is; support him.

So Cummings talks nice, but his actions... but at least 3 out of 4 top Whitehall functions now have new Brexiteer supporters on it. Sedwill gone soon.
Probably before end of year BJ/Cummings is in full control of the Whitehall operation.

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2 hours ago, hump101 said:

However, if you have a 6 person cabinet, then you have the views of only 6 people, on every subject involved in government. But if you hand-pick the six from people who agree with you, then you have at best 2-3 views. If you then control them so they are scared for their livelihoods and pensions, you have 1 view. That is called a dictatorship, and that is what he wants, and is creating.

"Creating" is going swimmingly.

To get a 6 person Cabinet you first have to get rid of a couple of dozen Cabinet Committees by reducing that to 6 and make Johnson Chair of at least 4 or 5.

That was done even before Johnsons first night at No 10 after climbing up the Brexit downpipe and breaking in (I love that one).:lol:

After Brexit is in the rear mirror 2 or 3 Committees are gone.

Enter the 6 person Government.

Note: Climate Change a recent addition.

EaYPbZBXQAAe-Oo.thumb.jpeg.6113574160d4c6382b03664d0a5dd071.jpegIMG_20200614_045114.thumb.jpg.8c5fce20fc4eb1c1fccffdf5ebb687ba.jpg

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2 hours ago, hump101 said:

He looks across at science and industry, a distant view in his case as he has no real experience, and sees success, efficiency, and an apparent ruthless approach to discarding failure. He sees this because practically all that is published by science and industry is success, he never gets to see or read about the vast majority of programmes, both commercial and scientific, that "fail" before success is finally achieved. Science doesn't discard failure, it dissects it to learn from it, and publishes it in a positive light once success is achieved, to keep the funding flowing.

He worked for a Russian Aviation company that went bust, in the time Russia had no regulatory rules. The time of oligarchs before Putin became the regulator.
Failed in that job, his then boss is not nice about him, he would not be positive in references he told C in his face. Described him as an Oxford Hooligan. Later he pretended he was half owner of the company, a big lie. That was the only real job he had outside political stuff, 2 years at the most, and a failure. .
He knows about Russian history, including his favourite subject; how the Reds grabbed Power in 1917 onwards with ruthlessness and propaganda. His red bus slogans are directly from that manual.

He boasts that his Vote Leave was small, non political and capable and BJ and Gove were not needed for a victory... of which many would raise an eyebrow on that conclusion.

Governments are big. Mistakes never hidden under bankruptcy of a company. And most big mistakes made due to politicians pressure, like WindRush.
And IT, always IT projects fail :)

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2 hours ago, hump101 said:

Cummings states that everything should be run by small teams, including a 6 person cabinet. He justifies this because science and industry tend to do R&D in small teams. What he fails to see is that they have many small teams, all working at the same problem from different directions. This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of a very basic principle.

Oh, I have the impression the UK is already governed that way.
BJ, Gove, Patel, Raab, Hancock, Braverman and Cummings. So if he wants to get rid of the rest he must be afraid they will rebel in the future. Same way they got rid of the 27 Soft brexit MP's.

Big moment will be the May elections in Scotland. If SNP is capable of playing as dirty as Vote Leave they can win a mandate for independence. They only have to use Cummings tactics. Big Blue bus with; UK sucks, take back control. Oxford elite are ruining us.

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Meanwhile new talks will start in Brussel.
As the EU has proposed a solution in every sector, the UK still has not presented a plan in various sectors. One big one is on State Aid.
That was one of the reasons for Brexit, you would think they would have a proposal ready after 4 years.
Nope nothing concrete, only EU is bad.

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    - Tomorrow is Brexit 30 June - The Dead Cat Interview -

OK we had the other day Goves Ditchley Lecture clearly written by Cummings.

So Boris this morning taking straight from Goves speech too

Johnson Times Radio 16 minutes UTuber

1. A ‘Rooseveltian moment’ for UK

 ‘Bumpy times’ ahead on economy. Promises to ‘double down’ on investment. Need to set out a plan post CoVid. “Can’t go back to austerity, that’ll be a mistake’ (So no new plan just "we are Britain" rhetoric..double down on election stuff..same investment can't be right now...GDP -8%+ this year then another Brexit -8%+ next year is "BUMPY"..WTF.. Hide Brexit economy downhill in the CoVid shipwreck too)

2. Johnson swerves when asked about dependence on Cumming. ‘I’ve many excellent advisors. We have a massive programme & Dom’s outstanding, but we want to build nation back to health & bounce forward’ But Govt will have to look back on handling of crisis. Over 43,000 people have died. (Still won't acknowledge "excess mortality" nearly 70k)

3.  “This has been a disaster, let's not mince our words. This has been a nightmare for the country. But in those moments you have the opportunity to do things better”  His eyes forward on recovery. But sadly this nightmare far from over. Economic crisis about to hit. (Cummings spoke of crises being opportunities to propel unpopular change)

4. Finishes off with some good ole Johnson lies claiming he takes full responsibility.

Finally "Times Radio" not BBC or ITV has me intrigued....avoiding a mauling...producing copy for MSM without confronting them???

Thanks Beth R for cribs

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Taking bets on tomorrow 30 JUNE DEAD CAT for ........."Brexit Transition Gone - No Deal Is Done Day" 

I'm punting on... "Jenrick is Gone"

"Goodbye..tomorrow I'm getting hit by the #10 Dead Cat Bus"

images - 2020-06-29T200530.396.jpeg

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Today's FP's in order of frequency are Sedwill's resignation Cabinet Secretary and National Security Adviser, then Convid and Govt spending ......not one word about Brexit.

Sedwill is the 3rd Perm Sec type to go/pushed. Now to add to the mix is David Frost Mr Brexit Negotiator is to be the new National Security Advisor. Sedwill’s expertise was in the world of spooks, Frost a UK Brussels rep and SpAd who used sell whisky.

Unusual, controversial and the weird ..Cummings fingerprints all over this...and this is only the beginning.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Taking bets on tomorrow 30 JUNE DEAD CAT for ........."Brexit Transition Gone - No Deal Is Done Day

I'm punting on... "Jenrick is Gone"

Might have to pull Jenrick and replace with this.

Suddenly remembered tomorrow is Johnson's  ‘Build Build Build’ speech in Dudley a West Midlands town just north of Birmingham (a Red Wall seat won in 2019)

Then again why not go for both :lol:

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11 hours ago, crashdog said:

OK, I wasn't going to do this, but I had a big slosh of gin while sitting on the boat this afternoon, and now that I am back home...

In Jack's first image - the fly end is on the right, the hoist on the left, as shown flying below

LARGE 5ft X 3ft 5'x3' UNION JACK BRITISH UK NATIONAL FLAG ...

If the aircraft is flying, you could imagine that the fly end of the flag would be toward the stern, not the bow.  In which case, it would look like:

UK Flag Wallpapers - Wallpaper Cave

With the nose of the aircraft on the right, , then the tail would show as on the aircraft.  It is correct.    I am not so sure about what appears to be the long pennant from the nose, however.  That's just spurious design.  Anyway, not sure that a Boris pennanting off is the right thing to display.  There should be a city flag in there, yes?

 

 

Having prompted you guys and given soooooooo many clues, its taken you until now to work out what a 10 year old could have worked in a few minutes, what took you so long to see the obvious, I guess that sums you guys up, you are so blinded by whats put in front of you, that you can't see the real picture from a different aspect. KC375 you disappoint, Jack and CuMS I guess its just another failure of seeing the obvious because Twitter said it was " twuuueeee "

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I agree KC and it applies to many public administration's. However remember it is not just administrations but the governance/constitutions from atop that also come into play depending on the quantum of change.

Leo populist and worse, populist and inept Governments have a "shelf-life" and Cummings knows that. They need a totalitarian framework in place and pronto before the public mood changes or things outside their control occur. Would anyone have predicted 4 months ago that the Johnson Governments approval rating would be in the toilet by June?

As to Cummings utterences.

You have to draw a line BETWEEN his "observations about the dysfunction of public administration" AND then parliamentary debate, (also a public/stakeholder conversation) over the "strategy and methodology" to correct it. Particularly one that entails a radical departure from long held conventions and governance, in the UK's case some going back hundreds of years.  

BUT in this case there hasn't been any debate at all, in fact it was deliberately hidden at the time of a General Election with none of this appearing in the Government's manifesto. It has even been hidden from the party membership and prospective MP's from which the executive secure the keys to Downing Street. 

Noting Cummings place in Downing Street was only settled after the election, even he admits it requires deception and the strength of numbers on the floor of Parliament to prosecute his strategy. 

In his own words about making unelected persons Ministers;  "That would be on my to-do list if I ever managed to get into Number 10... one of the first things I would do is put a Order of Council through at 2.00am 

....

So often problems of governance come down to a disconnect between those acting in an executive capacity and those on whose behalf they are acting.

That’s one of the reasons I prefer to work with private equity than in publicly traded companies. When backed by PE the gap in accountability is small, there is more focus on the quality of the decision and execution than there is on broadly communicating complicated ideas and building the wide support that you have to do with public companies (as well as how do you communicate enough to your shareholders without communicating too much to competitors).

With the public sector there is a massive gap between the executive and operating roles and public on whose behalf they work. It is the role of elected leaders to manage that gap. That is why people like Cummings should be kept in their box as advisors. You want interesting iconoclastic ideas presented. Rarely do you want the person presenting them, implementing them. Iconoclasts tend not to be nuanced and often lack the skill set for implementation. Iconoclasts often happily throw the baby out with the bath water as long as they can get rid of the bath water.

Almost every administration with a distinct agenda to implement and a strong majority is tempted by the 2 am Order in Council and ramming through omnibus legislation. Appealing as it may be to “get things done” that is the path to failure and destruction. Things done that way are often overturned by the subsequent administration leaving a mess that everyone might agree was worse than the original problem.

The clever elected leader integrates the iconoclast's ideas with other wise advise in shaping policy AND most important uses the politicians gift for persuasion to build consensus for the change. Taking two or three times as long to make change but making broadly supported changes that last may be less fun but it does more good.

Using public inquiries, royal commissions, white papers, parliamentary committees, parliamentary debate etc. etc. and repeated public engagement may seem convoluted but in the hands of a skilled leader brings the population along, while at the same time culling some of the dumber ideas that seemed brilliant when first vented, resulting in lasting outcomes.

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:rolleyes: you brits are really a funny lot, spending all the time and energy discussing a flag, is that the reason why those brits can't come up with some serious brexit proposals ? "sorry Mr. Barnier, old chap, we're too much tied up now bickering over flag issues and that of course, Barnier, old chap, you'll understand we know our priorities, you'll just have to sit this one out until we got that flag thingmybob resolved" B)

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25 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Having prompted you guys and given soooooooo many clues, its taken you until now to work out what a 10 year old..

Interesting Wayne....you have a fixation about everything requiring 10 years to work out. :lol:

Have you spoken to a professional about this?

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37 minutes ago, Albatros said:

:rolleyes: you brits are really a funny lot, spending all the time and energy discussing a flag, is that the reason why those brits can't come up with some serious brexit proposals ? "sorry Mr. Barnier, old chap, we're too much tied up now bickering over flag issues and that of course, Barnier, old chap, you'll understand we know our priorities, you'll just have to sit this one out until we got that flag thingmybob resolved" B)

The English are working on getting things back to where they should be. First Brexit, ... then Irish reunification and another Scottish referendum and it all get's simplified to

383px-Flag_of_England.svg.png

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3 minutes ago, KC375 said:

The English are working on getting things back to where they should be. First Brexit, ... then Irish reunification and another Scottish referendum and it all get's simplified to

383px-Flag_of_England.svg.png

Gosh how long have you taken to work that out :D

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47 minutes ago, Albatros said:

:rolleyes: you brits are really a funny lot, spending all the time and energy discussing a flag, is that the reason why those brits can't come up with some serious brexit proposals ? "sorry Mr. Barnier, old chap, we're too much tied up now bickering over flag issues and that of course, Barnier, old chap, you'll understand we know our priorities, you'll just have to sit this one out until we got that flag thingmybob resolved" B)

It was only the Twittersphere that was discussing the flag issue, oh and Jack as being a true Aussie Ocker he was viewing it standing on his head, on that basis it was just a bit of Twattersphere nonsense.

Suckers.

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No, the UK hold all the cards, no reason to show them, believe us, you know the UK is always and in everything better then the EU. Surrender.

 

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1 hour ago, Albatros said:

:rolleyes: you brits are really a funny lot, spending all the time and energy discussing a flag, is that the reason why those brits can't come up with some serious brexit proposals ? "sorry Mr. Barnier, old chap, we're too much tied up now bickering over flag issues and that of course, Barnier, old chap, you'll understand we know our priorities, you'll just have to sit this one out until we got that flag thingmybob resolved" B)

You know, the brits try to live "greatness of the former Empire" which ceased recently..the late 18th century. Then not to mention all the old remains of the Empire. All those petty traditions, Queen, the old stuff and the independence from any imposed union. 

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On 6/26/2020 at 1:46 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Looks to me as though Starmer has said fuck this.... and is now going to play the man.

 

Starmer (now out polling Johnson) is now finally chasing Johnson in the MSM with solution specifics..good move.

Ironicaly here on ITV's GMB who #10 have banned Ministers from going on for 2 months in the middle of a national crisis. WTF.

 

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1 hour ago, Waynemarlow said:

It was only the Twittersphere that was discussing the flag issue,

That's interesting ....you have posted the flag issue here a SM platform, 4 times and only that subject recently. That borders on a singular obsession.:lol:

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16 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

That's interesting ....you have posted the flag issue here 4 times and only that subject recently. That borders on a singular obsession.:lol:

Interesting sub diversion, just admit it, you believe everything you post from Twitter is valid and true.

Keep using Twitter as your reference and I guess I would win a bet most of Jacks predictions will not end up as he portrays.

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You back to ploughing that dry Twitter field.....given up on Jack's team of paid researchers. Wish you would make your mind up 

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Speaking of fields.

Your getting to the back end of EU trade talks plus racing around the world trying to do FTA'S and suddenly think it might be a good idea to engage with the agricultural industry and other stakeholders.

Impossible to make this up.

 

 

NFU responds to announcement of Trade and Agriculture Commission

And the fine print in Truss's letter, noting no attempt to amend the Agricultural Bill and put existing standards into law.

EbrUxT9WkAABdk4.png

 

The UK chicken still thinks he is being sold down the chlorine river.

source (2).gif

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9 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You back to ploughing that dry Twitter field.....given up on Jack's team of paid researchers. Wish you would make your mind up 

No actually as you bring the subject back up, how are your researchers, getting paid well, they must reckon its gotta be one of the easiest jobs going, research into a subject where there is masses of content, the governor believes everything put in front of him, lets them ghost write most of the content, as he's not up to it, he breaks out into temper tantrums and gets all bitchy and gives the game away when he writes the content, what more could you want as you know the job is good for years to come.

My only question is, as you're a professional organisation with paid staff, creating posts in the hope that Brexit would be rescinded ( well that's no longer a possibility ) shouldn't you be paying Clean to be here ?

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39 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I didn't know you could catch Downs Syndrome.

See there you go, that's got to be Jack writing, all adolescent and puerile humor, now lets see the long drawn out well edited prose, will it be Samantha, Sheila or Bruce doing the writing ?

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3 hours ago, troll99 said:

You know, the brits try to live "greatness of the former Empire" which ceased recently..the late 18th century. Then not to mention all the old remains of the Empire. All those petty traditions, Queen, the old stuff and the independence from any imposed union. 

Just for you Wayne.

703414474_images-2020-06-25T074920_550.jpeg.20d610aec1c2e539bf6d88e879315ad5.jpeg

Troll interesting you say that. When you think about it the English have always projected their political and economic power "externally." 

First with the Empire, then that started going to shit after the clock turned over to 1900.

Presiding over colonies was then replaced with the Commonwealth where many of those ex colonies getting ever stronger, taking the edge of that projected English superiority, even on God forbid the cricket and rugby pitches.

Then post WWII sought to form a unified Europe but missed the boat entirely having to wait until 1972 to be allowed to join a already established EEC/EU. So off again seeking to continue that centuries old tradition, but now projecting political and economic influence externally from a proxy postcode just across the Channel.

But then at every turn wanted to step back but still maintain a place at the top of the EU table. Be it the single market but no Schengen, no Euro, trying unsuccessfully to make it a image of itself and finally pulled up stumps entirely on 31 January this year.

Now it's back to the future with Empire Mark II afresh. Scouring the world to find places to raise the Union Jack (that itself is starting to unravel) be it first a chair beside the wall at the "Association of Southeast Asian Nations" (ASEAN) or the Pacific rims "Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership" (CPTPP) then a chair at the table, a table containing some of those old colonies.

So all in all pretty funny. Brexiteers were sold the sovereign nation, ring fencing its status as an independent coastal nation where it was taking back control including some immigrant cleansing.

Yet never in its history has that ever really occured, now taking back something it never had....and blow me down it seems that isn't going to change.

Pretty weird bunch the English.

(Great work team that's a print..thanks Jack)

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44 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I didn't know you could catch Downs Syndrome.

It's quite fun watching a "conversation" between Jack and mentally challenged bot, when you can only see Jack's contributions.

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Pretty weird bunch the English.

 you can't have just worked that out?

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2 minutes ago, cms said:

 you can't have just worked that out?

Cm I had to wait for my researchers and my writers to write it :lol:

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3 minutes ago, LeoV said:

This is so pathetic.

Pathetic is the HOC let a deranged Elf use it's letterhead.

Imagine Barnier pissing himself laughing.

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21 minutes ago, LeoV said:

More weirdness, the letter that the ERG send to Barnier ..

 

19 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

...

Imagine Barnier pissing himself laughing.

Yes this is the sort of letter that ends up framed on the "for a laugh" section of the reception room wall.

Although mock worthy the letter does demonstrate the irreconcilable problem. Some Brexiteers seek a free Britain competing in the European market in an unrestricted free market way. On the other side is the EU view that anyone selling into our market (especially one so close) must not under cut our producers by skimping on various conditions we impose on our own producers. Those positions can not be reconciled.

The EU seems unmotivated to move. So the UK must choose between barriers to entry or constraints on its "sovereign freedoms". The EU would prefer the later but can live with the former. Now up to the UK to decide which it can live with....

And the default is the former and that comes into play by just letting the current process play out with no negotiated agreement....the path of least resistance.

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8 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Yes this is the sort of letter that ends up framed on the "for a laugh" section of the reception room wall.

The weirdness is ERG want No Deal but encourage Barnier to engage with Frost? Maybe the pompus elf has been grazing in the mushroom patch?

KC saw this on the Twitter screen and thought of you. Need more of this south of the border.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

This pretty funny ...pretty sad

Click to read the whole story multiple posts

 

 

 

And more.

That RS Archer thread is great.

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40 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The weirdness is ERG want No Deal but encourage Barnier to engage with Frost? Maybe the pompus elf has been grazing in the mushroom patch?

KC saw this on the Twitter screen and thought of you. Need more of this south of the border.

 

 

Found this in RS Archer feed. Gives some hope

A Florida sheriff adopted Scottish police training. Now his deputies use force less often.

 

 

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

However upon the July 1932 election giving the Nazi Party 230 seats in the Reichstag and a majority, Hitler then went about turning the Weimar into a Totalitarian State

This is not fully correct. They won 37% of the votes, so no majority and 230 seats of 608. At the november 1933 elections they were even down to 33% and 196 seats. 

The bad thing is they still managed to transform germany into a totaliaran state. 

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Trade secretary Liz Truss has complained to the EU Commission that the UK is being unfairly represented by Brussels in a long-running trade dispute between Boeing and Airbus.

EU sources told City A.M. that Truss set up meetings with high-level figures from the Commission to complain that the other three European countries involved in the dispute – France, Germany and Spain – were getting preferential treatment from the EU in the wake of Brexit.

The official told City A.M. that the UK’s attitude was “schizophrenic” as they were asking for the EU to treat them fairly in this case, while also threatening to leave the post-Brexit transition period on a no-deal basis.

https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-uk-unhappy-with-treatment-from-eu-in-airbus-boeing-dispute/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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58 minutes ago, jgh66 said:

37% of the votes, so no majority and 230 seats of 608.

The crazy thing: in UK you can even get a large majority of seats while having a minority of votes.... must be far easier for cummings to change the system than it was in 32. The good thing of WWII: the western allies made sure that germany get's a proper, fair and logic new political system, so that never again can happen what happened. They just forgot to look at their own political systems... 

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1 hour ago, jgh66 said:

The crazy thing: in UK you can even get a large majority of seats while having a minority of votes.... must be far easier for cummings to change the system than it was in 32. The good thing of WWII: the western allies made sure that germany get's a proper, fair and logic new political system, so that never again can happen what happened. They just forgot to look at their own political systems... 

always easier to impose rationality on others than gain consensus to adopt rationality

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On 6/28/2020 at 11:18 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Most EU members have now approved an initial list of “safe” countries whose citizens will be allowed to travel to the EU/Schengen area** as of 1 July. The US is not on that list. UK is in no man's land apparently as list prepared with EU27 solidarity in mind as power obviously rests with each state.

This is still fluid and WIP as some EU countries still have borders closed to others such as Sweden.

Criteria for EU access includes virus infection rate but also the efficacy of the non-EU country’s healthcare and test, track and trace system plus the transparency of its health data as well as reciprocity issue: ie if country allows EU/Schengen citizens to travel there 

** Schengen Area

Courtesy katya adler @BBCkatyaadler
 

Row back on UK Quarantine to try and get on the EU "safe list". Without reciprocity of allowing EU/Schengen citizens to travel to UK that was a no show. Will the EU list UK  now is the big question.

Parliament UK - Travel update:Written statement

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Scoop: we have obtained the government's plan for post-Brexit border checks with the EU
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277716723702120448.html

In truth, it is a rehash of old May stuff already known, but this is new, version 1, June 2020.
UK EU border (except NI) will change from akin toll booth to a full blown border post, 3rd country. With both sides deciding separately who crosses the border.
UK will allow a UK truck to Dover depending on papers, the French/Dutch etc do it all over again deciding if the papers are correct.
Will not be as smooth as Swiss, Norway/Swedish or even Turkeys border checks into the EU.
Meanwhile EU to UK transport will not be checked more then now for at least a half year.

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Yep, UK government is bonkers, Gove gave a speech packed with lies and gross misunderstanding of history, got criticized for it, and then replied on twitter..
He is the victim, very Trumpy.

https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1277729579805925376

I was a child in care, whose adoptive father ran a business destroyed by the EU, I have family members who live with serious disabilities -let down by Holyrood - I introduced education reforms to help the poorest - but some people won’t learn...
------------------------------------

Child in care, yep at 4 months old into lovely family who could send him to a private school.
Nope, fathers business was no destroyed by the EU.
Family with disabilities, Gove voted constantly to minimize disabilities laws.
His education reforms were not helping the poorest et all.

We are used about the lies over the EU to make them look bad. But now lies about making him look good are back. What a wanker. This is the 2d man in government.
Full blown Trump... lies and childish rants.

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UK to EU, LPF is mean and bad.

UK to UK business, no LPF in the UK either.

One of the interesting points to emerge from @LordsEUCom today is that the UK Government is contemplating depriving businesses the right to challenge subsidies to rivals.

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13 minutes ago, LeoV said:

UK to EU, LPF is mean and bad.

UK to UK business, no LPF in the UK either.

One of the interesting points to emerge from @LordsEUCom today is that the UK Government is contemplating depriving businesses the right to challenge subsidies to rivals.

So which businesses do you think will be benefiting from Government subsidies once this is pushed through?

Who would invest in a business in the UK under such conditions? Only those receiving a subsidy, surely? And then, once you are invested and set up, is your newly arriving rival going to get an even bigger subsidy to compete against you?

How can this encourage any confidence in operating a business in the UK? This sounds like an attempt to allow them to bribe businesses to set up in the UK for short term political gain ("Look, new jobs from Brexit!!!"), but it can't possibly be sustainable, or provide value for the tax payer. It paves the way for large companies to blackmail the government, on a permanent basis. They'll be at the government with their hands out every month, threatening to leave and take their jobs with them. Stupid and short-sighted, so certainly what Cummings will try.

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Subsidy is a kind of tax break, so Brexiteer companies for sure. Tory grifters to the front.

But Brexit will lead to a radical change in how the UK does business. Back to 1959 when the UK entered the first EU trade block.
Hard Brexit is hard Brexit. So it is good to have your hands free to reorganize what you want, but the risk of doing it wrong....

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Having hands free is one thing, but legislating to deliberately provide unfair market conditions within your own market is a path to legalise and encourage corruption, and little else. Not sure what the english translation of "mafia" is. Probably "Tory" would be closest.

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All the latest in the BJ speech, HOC and HOL is not convincing the EU to make a compromise... Botch Botch Botch.

ps that RS Archer thread is a continuing story, Farage and Vanessa Paradise now in play too.

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@Laser1

Dutch agreed on Brexit emergency law for clogs in the UK, passed all houses.
So in case that the WA does not protect the Dutch citizens rights in the UK, an emergency law is in place. Every (ex) Dutch citizen can then have both UK and Dutch citizenship.
Even if you acquired an UK one in the past and lost the Dutch one because of it.
So if your rights get trampled on, the law is ready to be used in a day, only needs the King signature to bring it into action.

https://www.eerstekamer.nl/nieuws/20200630/initiatiefvoorstel_rijkswet

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

... RS Archer thread is a continuing story, Farage and Vanessa Paradise now in play too.

I am not a fan of Twitter but RS Archer could convert me.

In response to a question of could the local mayor be corrupted in order to help overcome the challenges of Brexit the mayors wife replies (the mayor was not available in person to field the question): "She says after knowing him for thirty years he could be probably be corrupted if a date with Vanessa Paradis could be delivered as part of the deal"

So there you have it all you need to fix Brexit

OIP.Hy14g-pL7VbZYFEnO73iOgHaLG?pid=Api&r

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22 hours ago, KC375 said:

That RS Archer thread is great.

RS Archer

The thread that keeps on giving.

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More then 300.000 Brits living in Spain, more then 100.000 under the radar (living their illegal without paying tax, using healthcare).
Fucking UK immigrants leaching on Spain, 1 out of 3. Good that UKIP sorted that out with Brexit.
Now UK complaining Spain does do nothing, if they had registered normally, they would be fine...
Smart from Spain. They have the paperwork from the legal citizens, can accept them after 2020 easy. The illegals, who cares.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/30/uk-citizens-rights-eu-at-risk-brexit

---------------

Britain and Brussels have each accused the other of holding up a decision on the City of London’s ability to do business in EU markets from next year, prolonging the financial services’ state of uncertainty about the future. Both parties had agreed to complete assessments of the other’s regulatory regimes for financial services by Tuesday 30 June, with the expectation that they would deemed “equivalent”, allowing business to continue in the new year.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, told the Eurofi financial regulation thinktank that the UK had answered only four of 28 questionnaires Brussels had sent seeking information about the regulation of financial services. “So we are not there yet,” he said. “We will only grant equivalences in those areas where it is clearly in the interest of the EU; of our financial stability; our investors and our consumers.”

British officials are understood to be frustrated that the questions posed are far broader in range than necessary for an equivalence decision to be reached.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/30/britain-and-brussels-turn-on-each-other-for-prolonging-citys-uncertainty

 

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16 minutes ago, Only Fools Rush In said:

It’s fucking hilarious!

I love that the small town French Mayor’s office is so looking forward to a visit from  a British tyre fitter come over to demand the Mayor fix this Brexit thing, that one of the staff has switched her day off so she can be in the office to watch the show.

Brexit has turned Britain into a joke both at the national level but also at the individual and municipal level.

The Brits may not be contributing to the EU budget but they still contribute to EU wellbeing through the humour of their actions.

Margaret Thatcher would be so proud.

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

RS Archer

The thread that keeps on giving.

This sounds like a great idea for a screwball comedy  - RSArcher should get the movie rights sorted!

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1 hour ago, alphafb552 said:

This sounds like a great idea for a screwball comedy  - RSArcher should get the movie rights sorted!

Peter Maye (A Year In Provence, A Good Year) can write the script.

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On 6/30/2020 at 5:12 AM, jgh66 said:

This is not fully correct. They won 37% of the votes, so no majority and 230 seats of 608. At the november 1933 elections they were even down to 33% and 196 seats. 

The bad thing is they still managed to transform germany into a totaliaran state. 

On 6/30/2020 at 6:17 AM, jgh66 said:

The crazy thing: in UK you can even get a large majority of seats while having a minority of votes.... must be far easier for cummings to change the system than it was in 32. The good thing of WWII: the western allies made sure that germany get's a proper, fair and logic new political system, so that never again can happen what happened. They just forgot to look at their own political systems... 

 

Jgh yes my mistake should have said "most" Nazi seats not "majority." 

I picked the July 1932 election as the "tipping point" of 3 elections in 9 months, none of which they gained a majority, remembering their seats barely reaching double figures in lead up years, so a meteoric rise.

Hitler the non-elected Chancellor in a minority Govt after the Nov election 3 months later where the Nazis lost 34 seats as you say. That failure to form a coalition government and realisation they were going backwards was the straw that broke camels back. The Reichstag fire in January and the Nazi's unleashing a widespread campaign of violence against all opposition and then seizing power in advance of the March 1933 election again with a minority, was the final piece.

Two weeks after the election, Hitler was able to pass an Enabling Act on 23 March with the support of all non-socialist parties, which effectively gave Hitler dictatorial powers. Within months, the Nazis banned all other parties and turned the Reichstag into a rubberstamp legislature comprising only Nazis and pro-Nazi guests.

History might have been different if the Social Democrats and Communists with the help of another minor party had formed a coalition to push Hitler out at the two 1932 elections. That would have succeeded even if the Nazi's had formed a coalition with their voting partner the German National People's Party, that before rise of the Nazi Party, was the major conservative and nationalist party.

The March 1933 election (around 15 parties now not 50) was the last multi-party elections in a unified Germany until 1990 or 57 years later. A unification that probably wouldn't have occured or occured then if it wasn't for the existence of the EEC/EU.

You look at what Germany has managed to achieve against that backdrop and when the single market was formed around then compared to that of the UK in the period since until now. It was the single market that helped bring an end to the Troubles in Ireland for the UK and little acknowledgement given.

The UK have spent the last 30 years doing nothing to fix their own economy, yet jealous of Germany's rise and France to a lesser extent. They have "cherry picked" from and or not supported many EU changes/ments as a collective. They have complained about immigration but did nothing about it, even though outside Schengen, much easier to blame the EU for your problems.

I say good riddance to them now... they have been a festering sore in the EU for too long.

The centralisation of power and removal of checks and balances by the Johnson Government is little different to that employed in Germany post 1932, so fuck him too.

July 1932 Election

IMG_20200701_092812.jpg

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On 6/30/2020 at 3:34 AM, jack_sparrow said:

This pretty funny ...pretty sad

Click to read the whole story multiple posts

 

And more.

14 hours ago, LeoV said:

ps that RS Archer thread is a continuing story, Farage and Vanessa Paradise now in play too.

 

10 hours ago, KC375 said:

RS Archer

The thread that keeps on giving.

 

9 hours ago, Only Fools Rush In said:

It’s fucking hilarious!

 

9 hours ago, LeoV said:

More then 300.000 Brits living in Spain, more then 100.000 under the radar (living their illegal without paying tax, using healthcare).
Fucking UK immigrants leaching on Spain, 1 out of 3. Good that UKIP sorted that out with Brexit.
Now UK complaining Spain does do nothing, if they had registered normally, they would be fine...
Smart from Spain. They have the paperwork from the legal citizens, can accept them after 2020 easy. The illegals, who cares.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/30/uk-citizens-rights-eu-at-risk-brexit

 

14 hours ago, LeoV said:

@Laser1

Dutch agreed on Brexit emergency law for clogs in the UK, passed all houses.
So in case that the WA does not protect the Dutch citizens rights in the UK, an emergency law is in place. Every (ex) Dutch citizen can then have both UK and Dutch citizenship.
Even if you acquired an UK one in the past and lost the Dutch one because of it.
So if your rights get trampled on, the law is ready to be used in a day, only needs the King signature to bring it into action.

https://www.eerstekamer.nl/nieuws/20200630/initiatiefvoorstel_rijkswet

 

 

On 6/30/2020 at 3:22 AM, LeoV said:

More weirdness, the letter that the ERG send to Barnier is now public;

 https://mobile.twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1277613712292155393

This is so pathetic.

On 6/30/2020 at 3:56 AM, jack_sparrow said:

The weirdness is ERG want No Deal but encourage Barnier to engage with Frost? Maybe the pompus elf has been grazing in the mushroom patch?

 

On 6/29/2020 at 7:11 PM, jack_sparrow said:

 OK we had the other day Goves Ditchley Lecture clearly written by Cummings.

So Boris this morning taking straight from Goves speech too

Johnson Times Radio 16 minutes UTuber

1. A ‘Rooseveltian moment’ for UK

 ‘Bumpy times’ ahead on economy. Promises to ‘double down’ on investment. Need to set out a plan post CoVid. “Can’t go back to austerity, that’ll be a mistake’ (So no new plan just "we are Britain" rhetoric..double down on election stuff..same investment can't be right now...GDP -8%+ this year then another Brexit -8%+ next year is "BUMPY"..WTF.. Hide Brexit economy downhill in the CoVid shipwreck too)

On 6/30/2020 at 5:48 AM, LeoV said:

Trade secretary Liz Truss has complained to the EU Commission that the UK is being unfairly represented by Brussels in a long-running trade dispute between Boeing and Airbus.

EU sources told City A.M. that Truss set up meetings with high-level figures from the Commission to complain that the other three European countries involved in the dispute – France, Germany and Spain – were getting preferential treatment from the EU in the wake of Brexit.

The official told City A.M. that the UK’s attitude was “schizophrenic” as they were asking for the EU to treat them fairly in this case, while also threatening to leave the post-Brexit transition period on a no-deal basis.

https://www.cityam.com/exclusive-uk-unhappy-with-treatment-from-eu-in-airbus-boeing-dispute/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

17 hours ago, LeoV said:

Yep, UK government is bonkers, Gove gave a speech packed with lies and gross misunderstanding of history, got criticized for it, and then replied on twitter..
He is the victim, very Trumpy.

https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1277729579805925376

I was a child in care, whose adoptive father ran a business destroyed by the EU, I have family members who live with serious disabilities -let down by Holyrood - I introduced education reforms to help the poorest - but some people won’t learn...
------------------------------------

Child in care, yep at 4 months old into lovely family who could send him to a private school.
Nope, fathers business was no destroyed by the EU.
Family with disabilities, Gove voted constantly to minimize disabilities laws.
His education reforms were not helping the poorest et all.

We are used about the lies over the EU to make them look bad. But now lies about making him look good are back. What a wanker. This is the 2d man in government.
Full blown Trump... lies and childish rants.

 

9 hours ago, LeoV said:

Britain and Brussels have each accused the other of holding up a decision on the City of London’s ability to do business in EU markets from next year, prolonging the financial services’ state of uncertainty about the future. Both parties had agreed to complete assessments of the other’s regulatory regimes for financial services by Tuesday 30 June, with the expectation that they would deemed “equivalent”, allowing business to continue in the new year.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, told the Eurofi financial regulation thinktank that the UK had answered only four of 28 questionnaires Brussels had sent seeking information about the regulation of financial services. “So we are not there yet,” he said. “We will only grant equivalences in those areas where it is clearly in the interest of the EU; of our financial stability; our investors and our consumers.”

British officials are understood to be frustrated that the questions posed are far broader in range than necessary for an equivalence decision to be reached.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/30/britain-and-brussels-turn-on-each-other-for-prolonging-citys-uncertainty

On 6/29/2020 at 6:11 PM, LeoV said:

Meanwhile new talks will start in Brussel.
As the EU has proposed a solution in every sector, the UK still has not presented a plan in various sectors. One big one is on State Aid.
That was one of the reasons for Brexit, you would think they would have a proposal ready after 4 years.
Nope nothing concrete, only EU is bad.

 

16 hours ago, LeoV said:

UK to EU, LPF is mean and bad.

UK to UK business, no LPF in the UK either.

One of the interesting points to emerge from @LordsEUCom today is that the UK Government is contemplating depriving businesses the right to challenge subsidies to rivals.

 

17 hours ago, LeoV said:

Scoop: we have obtained the government's plan for post-Brexit border checks with the EU
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1277716723702120448.html

In truth, it is a rehash of old May stuff already known, but this is new, version 1, June 2020.
UK EU border (except NI) will change from akin toll booth to a full blown border post, 3rd country. With both sides deciding separately who crosses the border.
UK will allow a UK truck to Dover depending on papers, the French/Dutch etc do it all over again deciding if the papers are correct.
Will not be as smooth as Swiss, Norway/Swedish or even Turkeys border checks into the EU.
Meanwhile EU to UK transport will not be checked more then now for at least a half year.

 

 

14 hours ago, LeoV said:

All the latest in the BJ speech, HOC and HOL is not convincing the EU to make a compromise... Botch Botch Botch.

^^^^^^^^^^   The Fucking Amazing Collection.

That is a collection of 7 post subjects and hoisted.

- JUST 7 incidents in LESS than 48 Hours.

- Involves ALL parties from the "bottom" of the ladder of those having a "direct" Brexit interest (UK owner of a EU house) right to the very "top" of the ladder for those "in charge" of Brexit, including the leader of the country.

They demonstrate in "irrefutable" detail that the UK have NO fucking idea what they have "done", NO fucking idea what they are "doing," NO fucking idea what "to do" and NO fucking idea what "happens" in 6 months time after 31 December.....except what ever it is it must be Brussels fault.

That "NO fucking idea" collection requires special skills, plus to boot, there is NO joke on the international stage now which has a higher standing than the UK (outside Trump's tweets). 

The only possible thing that could top that "NO fucking idea" collection, is a 8th post, but from @Waynemarlow saying he now has "no fucking idea" how he made a mistake voting leave 4 years ago (but still won't know for sure for 10 years).:lol:

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45 minutes ago, crashdog said:

I think its probably nine years now, yes?

Could be 10 from ballot June 2016 so 6 years to go or 10 from A.50 March 2017 so 9 to go but he blames delay upon those who voted Remain. Therefore could be 9 1/2 or 10 1/2 years to go, depending on if A.50 dead on 31 Jan or transition to 31 Dec 2020 is his start point. So many choices. 

Irrespective it still regarded by Psychologists as acute "cognitive dissonance" with the associated discomfort, tension, shame, and anxiety that will continue for years and caused by his original decision to vote Leave. :lol:

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Johnson's Dudley speech titled "Build Build Build" carries on from Goves Ditchley Lecture (clearly written by Cummings). Looks as though they have a hard-on for "D's"....One a Dud and one belonging in a Ditch more like it.

Johnson describing it as the UK's equivalent to President Franklin D Roosevelt's "New Deal" programme to help the US recover from the Great Depression.

Complete bullshit.

There are no reforms involving things like banking and social security etc that FDR also implemented. The UK forward spend not accelerated and is maybe a 1/30th - 1/50th of what FDR spent as a pro