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Brexit WTF, WTF

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

While the UK had minor damage to its electricity network due to the storm, this morning they needed to import 6% of their electricity from the EU to keep its system from shorting out. Something to do with keeping Hertz in a good spectrum. Without this more parts of the UK would have gone without electricity.

Totally off topic but over demand (when demand exceeds supply) draws more energy from the grid than can be supplied so the frequency of the AC drops in order to obey the laws of Physics. As most transformers are designed to operate at a certain frequency range, operating outside that range damages them. Unless you can draw in more power to supply the grid you either turn things off or risk serious damage to the gear supplying the grid as well as to devices consuming from the grid.

Over supply causes the inverse problem but can be solved easier by turning off / down generation equipment or dumping the power into storage such as hydro or fly wheels.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

In 2007 Fianna Fáil won more than six times the vote share of Sinn Féin.

Now everything has been tipped on its arse.

What do FF do? Power share with SF or power share with FG and have SF garner more public support and do a Rocky Balboa to them from the Opposition benches.

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All its going to do is embolden further the Left side of Labour to say actually Corbyn's policies were right and without the Brexit conundrum, Labour would have won. Roll on Becky's anointment.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

In 2007 Fianna Fáil won more than six times the vote share of Sinn Féin.

Now everything has been tipped on its arse.

What do FF do? Power share with SF or power share with FG and have SF garner more public support and do a Rocky Balboa to them from the Opposition benches.

EQaYgzWXYAAj24B.jpeg

Apparently Leo, (Varadkar, not our own Leo V - what does the "V" stand for???), is quite happy to sit this one out in Opposition land, stand by his "Never do a deal with the Shinners" stance. Will probably come up smelling of roses after whatever length of time it takes SF to royally fuck things up.

While Micheal Martin might just get his day in the sun before he retires on a decent pension, until that eventually has to be cut because there's not enough tax coming in to pay for the goodies SF are handing out.

IF FF don't go into power, in whatever format, and Martin retires after this go-around, he will be the first FF party leader to not be Taoiseach.

Which leads us nicely to the rhetorical question; what is the feminine of Taoiseach? We haven't needed it before now.

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26 minutes ago, Black Sox said:

Apparently Leo, (Varadkar, not our own Leo V - what does the "V" stand for???), is quite happy to sit this one out in Opposition land, stand by his "Never do a deal with the Shinners" stance. Will probably come up smelling of roses after whatever length of time it takes SF to royally fuck things up.

That's what UK Labour thought when the SNP took power in Holyrood... unfortunately the SNP seemed to realise that by simply not being seen to be totally incompetent they could easily rise up through British politics... It's a risky way to play the game.

Cheers,

                W.

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1 hour ago, Black Sox said:

what does the "V" stand for???

His surname and the google hits would go through the roof ;)

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2 hours ago, Black Sox said:

...what does the "V" stand for...

v_for_vendetta_img_2.16.jpg

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4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

All its going to do is embolden further the Left side of Labour to say actually Corbyn's policies were right and without the Brexit conundrum, Labour would have won. Roll on Becky's anointment.

There are no parallels between UK politics and this Irish general election

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1 hour ago, rgeek said:

There are no parallels between UK politics and this Irish general election

There was no tangible reason for brexit to win either. Look where we are. Do you really think that UK plebs cant bend some parallels? A bit of push from media influencers and news and Irish election was about EU and their pro EU government got toppled.

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1 hour ago, rgeek said:

There are no parallels between UK politics and this Irish general election

SF's hole mo was to attract the young with lots of freebies such as housing and higher pay, look what Corbyn did in 2017, sold the same idea and nearly pulled it off, look what SF did in 2020 and nearly pulled it off. But look who is going to elect the next Labour leader as soon as it gets out of the MP's and local parties hands, oh you know that Momentum based party of how many 500K or so of mainly young and Left side party members, guess what Becky is offering, oh LW ideas that include lots more housing for the young and higher wages.

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1 hour ago, Upp3 said:
2 hours ago, rgeek said:

There are no parallels between UK politics and this Irish general election

There was no tangible reason for brexit to win either. Look where we are. Do you really think that UK plebs cant bend some parallels? A bit of push from media influencers and news and Irish election was about EU and their pro EU government got toppled.

Upp, if you're saying that the IRL GE result is because of a backlash against the EU, I wouldn't agree.

I have absolutely no evidence other than talking to people. It seems to me that this result, like the Trump and Brexit results, isn't anything more than a simple teenage rebel-like "Anything but the establishment." Change because we can, without really considering the consequences.

If, on the other hand, you're saying that this result will be spun by whoever wants to as a backlash against the EU, then I agree totally.

With all the commentary and theories flying around, I find myself shaking my fist at the radio/TV/computer and shouting "You don't KNOW why people voted as they did; you just came up with a reason you like!"

Oh, and would you mind awfully moving off my lawn please? Thank you so much.

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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-confirms-plans-to-introduce-import-controls?utm_source=7112f7d2-9daf-4d3e-8d31-e0f2357e1554&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

Today, the government has confirmed plans to introduce import controls on EU goods at the border after the transition period ends on 31 December 2020

Duties, levies and TAX, tax they said as by tariffs they would not do at border... And by 2025 it all will be smart, yeah right.

So if they are serious expect the diggers in creating new physical checks facilities at all the cross Channel entry points into the UK, including Chunnel, new computer facilities, many hundreds more customs agents, thousands more agents, mass recruitment of vets... now and not in a few weeks.
 

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

Today, the government has confirmed plans to introduce import controls on EU goods at the border after the transition period ends on 31 December 2020....

This is very significant and much more than the mechanics of import/export and border control.

UK are officially accepting more friction at the border in return for regulatory divergence. The concept of LPF is being pushed into the corner making the political declaration a sham. Leaving with no comprehensive FTA is now Government policy. No deal will be next.

Impact on rules/reg divergence at GB/NI Irish Sea border is being swept under the carpet. This will be its own battleground with the EU and potentialy very nasty.

Impacts on GDP moving close to negative double figures so Government not having to defend official economic impact assessments very handy. Next months budget will be a fantasy land.

 

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4 hours ago, rgeek said:

There are no parallels between UK politics and this Irish general election

Listening to UK political commentators on eve of the election was like watching comedy show....then on Sunday when they had to do 180 degree changes in reasoning even funnier.  The English ignorance about Ireland hasn't changed in centuries 

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

Duties, levies and TAX, tax they said as by tariffs they would not do at border... And by 2025 it all will be smart, yeah right

The country voted twice to have more red tape....didn't they?

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3 hours ago, LeoV said:

And by 2025 it all will be smart, yeah right.

For Irish border smart by December 31. The new Ireland bridge a diversion for what sits in Ireland Protocol that the Government have no means of satisfying. A Government operating on media spin and nothing else.

 

 

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18 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

- Irish Times political commentator prediction is this but of 95 seats still to be filled around 50 in the balance so don't take too seriously.

 FF 47, SF37, FG 35, GP 9, LP 6, Soc Dems 5, SPBP 4, Others 17. 80 the majority.

This just got more fucking bizzare at close of the count.

FF got bogged up to the axles in last 24 hours. With SF hitting the wall with only 42 seats minors especially Greens not major parties got the preferences. 

Sinn Féin surplus votes excluding those that could have been transferred to a Sinn Féin running mate around 120K. They really messed up not running more candidates, even cardboard cutouts.

Possible for SF to build a left govt without FF?  SF reintegrate Aontú grab an Independent to become the largest party and Mary Lou lays claim to Taoiseach position????  Can you call a woman the Taoiseach??

FF / FG / Green coalition? Greens already tried this shotgun marriage once before and then got obliterated at next election so doubtful. FG opt for opposition benches to spoil and rebuild at the expense of FF the more likely.

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The word "reunification" was literally banned by SF during the election campaign.

Now..Unionists will be shitting their pants and the Johnson Government's media spin about strengthening the Union and that "oarsome foursome" row boat just hit the rocks. 

Remember under the GFA a decision on a border poll rests with the NI Sec of State/London. Then starts a rolling poll even if first one unsuccessful. Arlene Foster better start looking for that house in GB soon.

 

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The large swing of history, which brought Brexit and the attendant focus on the Ireland border question, is quite evident in the Ireland election, despite the claim that Brexit was a minor issue.  It may be just rhetoric but the McDonald comment on reunification is compelling for anyone who cares about Irish history.  How much did Varadkar's mini summit with Johnson tar him, I wonder.  For me, it was significant, and if I had been a voter in Ireland, I would have seen his amity with Johnson as facilitating the status quo in the UK Ire relationship. 

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As to support from EU for Ireland reunification, the immediate question that pops up is what this means for Gibraltar?  How wide and how far back should Brussels cast its historical wrongs net?

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Now joining UK farmers who threw their businesses under a red bus believing the shitfuckery that was written on it. Large slab of Scot fishing industry depend entirely on ability to send products to EU in 24hrs.

If only someone had spent that last few years warning them about this. Fuck me dead.

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So Scottish fishing now on the cusp of backing a return to "frictionless exports" in return for water shares as a better option than UK Govt position (who hasn't told them about veterinary border inspections posts yet).......and the SNP facilitates that journey.

EQc0tNeWsAESIYl.jpeg

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14 minutes ago, crashdog said:

As to support from EU for Ireland reunification, the immediate question that pops up is what this means for Gibraltar?  How wide and how far back should Brussels cast its historical wrongs net?

Crash don't forget Gibraltar also like Ireland has its own Protocol in the Withdrawal Agreement.

Spain will be carving out things Gibraltar in exchange for their vote around the EU Unanimous Vote Required Table. Already flagged any FTA will exclude Gibraltar as a means of lighting a fire underneath local business there and pointing them towards the exit.

IMG_20200211_112633.jpg

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50 minutes ago, crashdog said:

How much did Varadkar's mini summit with Johnson tar him, I wonder.  For me, it was significant, and if I had been a voter in Ireland, I would have seen his amity with Johnson as facilitating the status quo in the UK Ire relationship. 

Crash good question. My take is this.

It was universally agreed Varadkar did a good job for the Republic during Brexit negotiations. 

He then tried to convert that foreign policy political capital into votes but no-one was listening. Both Brexit & Reunification were not important to them as exit poll showed, more pressing domestic issues were. The Shinners understood that and so avoided Reunification issue during election campaign.

Also for the next phases of Brexit that UK/Ireland relationship he built up is considered of less importance as the Republic slides back to being just one of 27 states, albeit Brexit impacts upon them the greatest.

As an aside Varadkar was also banking on the presidential style nature of elections these days where the tall, good looking Taoiseach people line up and get selfies taken with. This election they were wanting selfies with another articulate Dubliner who wasn't wearing a NI balaclava, despite Leo telling them she did.

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36 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

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I’ve seen this poll being brandished around the web quit a bit and I’m going to call bullshite on it. It was carried out by RTE I presume which in and of itself is a red flag but more importantly, Verona Murphy who was cast aside by FG for her stand on illegal immigration just got elected as an independent which suggests that immigration is much more of a concern than many will let on.

also, the whole Oughterard debacle proved that people are waking up and Grealish’s stance on the issue didn’t hurt him in the least what with him comfortably retaining his seat in this election.  

 

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4 hours ago, LeoV said:

Taken by a photographer with a telelens;
https://www.ft.com/content/9623b8a2-4c3a-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
Sajid Javid to push for ‘permanent equivalence’ for City in Brexit talks. But thinks it is not possible. :)
Will be in FT tomorrow. Except the line; but thinks it is not possible.
 

Ha ha......the cake, and let me eat it a second time shitfuckery. Why did the UK Brexit again????

This financial dream time the Government are in begs this question. Is Brexit just the "final chapter" in the decline of Great Britian that many believe started with WWI in 1914, where Britain's smartest and most productive died in the battlefields of France and the gold sovereign vanished from circulation in Britain, replaced by paper money?

London is one of the global centres of trading in gold, meaning it is an important business for the UK (and those that export Gold to the UK). The UK imported $25.6 billion (8.9% total) and is ranked #4 behind Switzerland, India and China. Canada, US, South Africa and Australia the Top 4 exporters to the UK. Global Gold Exports/Imports.

So gold has a sizeable impact on the UK’s trade figures. The ONS are now removing gold from the UK's headline trade statistics from today. This is to provide a clearer picture of the impact of gold and give a better picture of the UK’s underlying trade patterns, that are about to dramatically change courtesy of Brexit.To explain.

Gold is indestructible – but can we always believe in UK trade figures with the disaggregated effect of the international trade in non-monetary.

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0
 Advanced issue found
 
 
4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The word "reunification" was literally banned by SF during the election campaign.

 

Trust me it was not. It just depended on where you were.

There was a poster round here with the words "If you really believe in a unified Ireland, vote Sin Fein"

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A measure of a county's intelligence and the scruples of those in power that take advantage of it.

2016: No Checks/Norway Deal
2017: No Checks/Deal B4 Leaving
2019: Absolutely No Checks/A 2020 Deal + 40 Quick Deals
2020: We always said there would be checks. We always said there was a risk of no deals.

It has only taken 10 days after "Brexit Was Done" for the charade to come crashing down.

It took Venezuela 2 years to tank. Can the UK can set a similiar record for a developed economy?

images - 2020-02-11T151052.571.jpeg

images - 2020-02-11T151435.340.jpeg

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34 minutes ago, rgeek said:

Advanced issue found

You may have taken me a bit too literaly. Any references to reunification or unity etc very carefully worded to avoid taking attention away from core messages.

There was one which wasn't, but that was a leftover from 1918.

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3 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

I’ve seen this poll being brandished around the web quit a bit and I’m going to call bullshite on it. It was carried out by RTE I presume which in and of itself is a red flag but more importantly, Verona Murphy who was cast aside by FG for her stand on illegal immigration just got elected as an independent which suggests that immigration is much more of a concern than many will let on.

also, the whole Oughterard debacle proved that people are waking up and Grealish’s stance on the issue didn’t hurt him in the least what with him comfortably retaining his seat in this election.  

 

More a case of RTE finally asking the right question after the game was over. Brexit is an "English-problem" faced off by a unified front of all parties. It's not an existential issue for people here in the same way that the issues at the top of the list are. It's just some shit we'll have to deal with and a distraction from the real problems people face.

There are now multiple generations here who are done with bullshit. Done with a society set up for a small number. Done with an economic system that has pushed pension provision into the housing market with the inevitable consequences for anyone under 40, and has screwed anyone between 40 and 50 who didn't hop on the ladder at just the right moment.

The difference is that Ireland has lived through the reality of overlordship and social conservatism/agrarianism and it was pretty ugly. Where there are similarities is that the movement that has finally dealt with the legacy of those issues is issue led and activist. In this case empowered by success with real issues of paedophile priests, industrial schools, Madeline laundry, gay marriage rights and womens health rights. It doesn't have a single political party that leads it but the closest political party that represents the common ground, and that has done massive work to, frankly, infiltrate what has been going on has been Sin Fein in late 60s early 70s civil rights mode. You have to consider that one of the legacies of British rule in Ireland is that the Irish are not blind to what it takes to overcome an oppressor.

Whether you view Ireland as ahead of the curve, behind it, or simply out of phase I don't know. But youth (meaning anyone under their mid 50s in this case) reacts against what has gone before and the Irish are shaking their heads at young Brits doning cardigans and muttering on about it all having gone too far, or commentators claiming British downfall is all down to WWI.

...

Being a strong constituency TD can get you a long way in Ireland (look no further than Tip or Kerry) and yes there is still plenty of conservatism, but the results don't lie. Not just the collapse of FF/FG support over the last 2 elections but the countrywide support in the recent referendums. There are pockets of the country like Donegal and Roscommon that vote no to everything, but that have recently been on board for change. 

But for every Murphy there a 3 Catherine Noone. In every constituency, someone has been giving the racist nationalist drum a thump. Our nasty piece of work failed to save her deposit (again) and had a decline in her vote as people realised what the Italian fascist billionaire-funded waggon was really all about. Similar picture elsewhere. People are done with politicians lining up to say any shit they are paid to or that will get them to an easy pension.

...

Here in north Dublin the local FG TD who tried to use his post to bring a national hospital to the constituency has been punished remorselessly by the same electorate that would of benefitted for 2 elections. There is a general mood here to start holding people to account. We're shaking our heads at the D4 southside friends giving a seat back to the outgoing minister for housing. Simon Harris (health) has had a fight on in Wicklow despite the abortion rights campaign and the FF spokesman for health also only got in on the 15th count.

.. before anyone claims that Harris prominent role on the abortion issue was his downfall Wicklow returned SF, PD and Green candidates at the top of the ballot. 

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3 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

I’ve seen this poll being brandished around the web quit a bit and I’m going to call bullshite on it. It was carried out by RTE I presume which in and of itself is a red flag ...

Commissioned by more than RTE. Brave move to call that Exit Poll with +/- 1.3% error margin bullshite when the same poll called first preferences share a 3 way tie and where final result was Sinn Fein: 24.5%, Fianna Fáil: 22.2% and Fine Gael: 20.9% and Fianna Fáil's 22.2% the same % in both.

EQXjE8CUwAAnIA1.jpeg

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35 minutes ago, rgeek said:

. We're shaking our heads at the D4 southsiders giving a seat back to the outgoing minister for housing.

And same one promoting Co-Housing Scheme involving 16 sq metre accommodation with 40 tenants sharing a kitchen and renting for €1,300 per month. A cardboard box under tree is at least free and the view changes.

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

And same one promoting Co-Housing involving 16 sq metre apartments with 40 tenants sharing a kitchen renting for €1,300 per month.

Followed by a sudden rise in multi-story developments consisting of bedsits for the city centre.

Meanwhile, we have Facebook and LinkedIN building the modern equivalent of Victorian mills (the Sun Light Soap Factory if we can only hope it'll be that enlightened) in Dublins comfortable suburbs. Massive graduate salaries are still not enough to con many to work for them though.

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39 minutes ago, rgeek said:

Meanwhile, we have Facebook and LinkedIN building the modern equivalent of Victorian mills (the Sun Light Soap Factory if we can only hope it'll be that enlightened) in Dublins comfortable suburbs. 

Sydney even had its own Port Sunlight factory in late 1800's including model village etc for the benefit of the workforce. They extracted copra/oil from Sth Pacific Is coconut plantations and sent it back to the real Port Sunlight in England. I think it was teetotal so maybe not that fun.

Was in inner Sydney and waterside so bulldozed for high end apartments around 20 years ago.

 

IMG_20200211_165751.jpg

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Is Javid heading up a secret society of Rejoiner Englanders or just really thick?

If Gove is sprouting true Govt policy and not a snow job, then easy to work out by watching budgets, recruitment and resources it allocates to run border checks over next 11 months.

EQeWOs8XYAA9VY5.png

dyh4wr54gss31.png

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5 hours ago, Sea warrior said:

I’ve seen this poll being brandished around the web quit a bit and I’m going to call bullshite on it. It was carried out by RTE I presume which in and of itself is a red flag but more importantly, Verona Murphy who was cast aside by FG for her stand on illegal immigration just got elected as an independent which suggests that immigration is much more of a concern than many will let on.

also, the whole Oughterard debacle proved that people are waking up and Grealish’s stance on the issue didn’t hurt him in the least what with him comfortably retaining his seat in this election.  

I thought that the exit poll was carried out by Ipsos? Commissioned by the others listed there. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As for immigration, I think it has been coming up in many European countries in recent year. But to get it being most important... only for skinheads I think.

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11 hours ago, Black Sox said:

If, on the other hand, you're saying that this result will be spun by whoever wants to as a backlash against the EU, then I agree totally.

I think I'm now saying that the spinning is already going on.

 

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On 2/7/2020 at 3:28 PM, jack_sparrow said:

THE REAL BREXIT PROGRAM

Forget "Get Brexit Done".....complete nonsence. Government are bullshitters.

Brexit is actually a Q&A process with a 5 year initial journey; “What is the UK Brexiting from and what is it Brexiting to?” 

31 Jan 2020:  Brexit cast off - No turning back.

Feb 2020 - Dec 2020: Transition Period

Jan 2021 - June 2022: Implementation Period (psst this is a secret no one has been told yet)...........

Finally a really good example of what the UK needs to be doing during the "transition period" (plus any linkage with any FTA) prior to the "implementation period" commencing on 1 January 2021. 

This trade anti-dumping review provision involves moving from EU to sole UK jurisdiction. It is just the tip of a monsterous iceberg to ensure the UK can lawfully act on 1 January 2021.

This is already in play with a EU trade remedy that the UK may or may not wish to adopt. The EU remedy in place is a "ad valorem duty" or higher percentage of the assessed value.

Anti-dumping duty on certain welded tubes and pipes of iron or non-alloy steel originating in Belarus, the People's Republic of China and Russian Federation

This review is carried out by the UK Trade Remedies Investigations Directorate.

However the EU has published its proposed negotiation mandate for the future FTA/EU/UK relationship. See pic below. It includes a provision not ruling out "anti-dumping" duties and anti subsidy duties may apply between the UK and EU despite any FTA.

The question now is from this review on the steel products the subject of this UK notice, is it the UK's intention to mirror the EU's "ad valorem duty" or do something else? 

The "something else" is UK has blocked the EU being equipped with fast and tough US-style anti-dumping weapons for the last seven years.

Makes you wonder about Brexiteer claims of saving British Steel. UK accused of leading efforts to block limits to Chinese steel dumping

EP2YU4-XUAIYsNh.jpeg

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Quote

Ursula von der Leyen mocks Boris Johnson's stance on EU trade deal

European commission chief picks out contradictions in UK approach to post-Brexit deal

Ursula von der Leyen has mocked Boris Johnson’s claims to be willing to accept an Australian-style trade deal with the EU by reminding MEPs that no such agreement exists.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/11/ursula-von-der-leyen-mocks-boris-johnsons-stance-on-eu-trade-deal

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

If Gove is sprouting true Govt policy and not a snow job, then easy to work out by watching budgets, recruitment and resources it allocates to run border checks over next 11 months.

Well that didn't take long.

Word is Customs have given up and confirmed their 30 year old "Customs Handling of Import and Export Freight" or CHIEF system will continue into 2021. It was due to go offline early last year replaced by the new CDS or Customs Declaration System. CDS is still shitting itself.

They will spend this year doing CHIEF bolt ons to deal with extra traffic. What could possibly go wrong. 

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7 hours ago, rgeek said:

More a case of RTE finally asking the right question after the game was over. Brexit is an "English-problem" faced off by a unified front of all parties. It's not an existential issue for people here in the same way that the issues at the top of the list are. It's just some shit we'll have to deal with and a distraction from the real problems people face.

There are now multiple generations here who are done with bullshit. Done with a society set up for a small number. Done with an economic system that has pushed pension provision into the housing market with the inevitable consequences for anyone under 40, and has screwed anyone between 40 and 50 who didn't hop on the ladder at just the right moment.

The difference is that Ireland has lived through the reality of overlordship and social conservatism/agrarianism and it was pretty ugly. Where there are similarities is that the movement that has finally dealt with the legacy of those issues is issue led and activist. In this case empowered by success with real issues of paedophile priests, industrial schools, Madeline laundry, gay marriage rights and womens health rights. It doesn't have a single political party that leads it but the closest political party that represents the common ground, and that has done massive work to, frankly, infiltrate what has been going on has been Sin Fein in late 60s early 70s civil rights mode. You have to consider that one of the legacies of British rule in Ireland is that the Irish are not blind to what it takes to overcome an oppressor.

Whether you view Ireland as ahead of the curve, behind it, or simply out of phase I don't know. But youth (meaning anyone under their mid 50s in this case) reacts against what has gone before and the Irish are shaking their heads at young Brits doning cardigans and muttering on about it all having gone too far, or commentators claiming British downfall is all down to WWI.

...

Being a strong constituency TD can get you a long way in Ireland (look no further than Tip or Kerry) and yes there is still plenty of conservatism, but the results don't lie. Not just the collapse of FF/FG support over the last 2 elections but the countrywide support in the recent referendums. There are pockets of the country like Donegal and Roscommon that vote no to everything, but that have recently been on board for change. 

But for every Murphy there a 3 Catherine Noone. In every constituency, someone has been giving the racist nationalist drum a thump. Our nasty piece of work failed to save her deposit (again) and had a decline in her vote as people realised what the Italian fascist billionaire-funded waggon was really all about. Similar picture elsewhere. People are done with politicians lining up to say any shit they are paid to or that will get them to an easy pension.

...

Here in north Dublin the local FG TD who tried to use his post to bring a national hospital to the constituency has been punished remorselessly by the same electorate that would of benefitted for 2 elections. There is a general mood here to start holding people to account. We're shaking our heads at the D4 southside friends giving a seat back to the outgoing minister for housing. Simon Harris (health) has had a fight on in Wicklow despite the abortion rights campaign and the FF spokesman for health also only got in on the 15th count.

.. before anyone claims that Harris prominent role on the abortion issue was his downfall Wicklow returned SF, PD and Green candidates at the top of the ballot. 

This opinion is brought to you by Dublin, which I’ll remind the viewer is not representative of Ireland as a whole.

 

 

That said, Being  one of those “youths” you described, I actually agree with a lot of what you write. However, definitely in my part of the country, immigration is becoming a concern and I again call bullshite the 1% claim made by that poll.

Immigration is becoming a central issue in Ireland 

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Q4 2019 UK GDP was flat as a pancake (0.0%). Note EU +0.1%.

Services(+0.1) just above water, construction (+0.5%) growing but production falling (-0.8%).

EQfCbtKXYAIHy2N.png

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15 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

That said, Being  one of those “youths” you described, I actually agree with a lot of what you write. However, definitely in my part of the country, immigration is becoming a concern and I again call bullshite the 1% claim made by that poll.

Immigration is becoming a central issue in Ireland 

If it is becoming central issue then the 1% seems plausible, imho likely. Question was what was the most important issue. Not top three, where I would imagine seeing immigration waaay more often than 1%. So I call bullshite on your bullshite.

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11 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

However, definitely in my part of the country, immigration is becoming a concern and I again call bullshite the 1% claim made by that poll.

Immigration is becoming a central issue in Ireland 

If immigration is a central issue in the country, how is it the country on Saturday put far-right or anti-immigration candidates down the shitter??

Far-right candidates put in dismal showing

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But hang on a moment business followed your previous advice that there was nothing to prepare for ???? Now you say they should get prepared????

So choosing between the "uncertainty" of economic death OR the "certainty" of not knowing what's going to happen, they should just prepare for certainty. Really.

The stats on those whose actions/preparation is either relocating in part or full to the EU will be kept under lock and key.

I bet there is more than a "panoply" of them.

 

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BJ. Laura I see you have had this week off work. Get away to the country?

LK. No.

BJ. No to the getaway or no to the country?

LK. No to...I can't do this shit anymore.

BJ. Can't do what?

LK. Sit on this fucking half rotten bench listening to your mindless drivel while picking splinters out of my bum.

BJ. Now come on Laura don't be such a prune face. Only last week business groups told me trading with the EU with no Free Trade Deal will destroy billions of £s worth of exports & create oodles of devasting chaos....so I acted bloody decisively.

LK. And did you what?

BJ. Told them they couldn't say "No Deal" anymore. It was now called an "Australia Deal" and I also got Gove to break the news that they would have to prepare for that.

LK.  Prepare to be Australian?

BJ. No prepare for No Deal.

LK. But how do they know Australia preparations is the same as No Deal and no fucking idea preparations?

BJ. Mmmmmm..I don't know. Dom hasn't told me that bit yet. Maybe I do it on my Q&A Facebook thing that Dom does the questions for?

LK. You don't sound worried? 

BJ. I'm more worried about being born in the US.

LK. Why?

BJ. The Home Office might deport me claiming I've been telling fibs from day one.

LK. Well what are you going to do about that?

BJ. Pack a bag I suppose.

Screen_Shot_2019-09-24_at_4.41.31_PM.jpg

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

If immigration is a central issue in the country, how is it the country on Saturday put far-right or anti-immigration candidates down the shitter??

Far-right candidates put in dismal showing

Because the far right movement in ireland, which is very real and not to be taken lightly, is targetting comunities where there is a lot if anger and isolation and drilling it home that its all the immigrants fault. 

In this election on the door step FG front bench TDs where blaming homelessness on people not wanting help and immigrants.

Casual bigotry is endemic in irish society, so it is ya bogger langer knacker nordie west brit.

With sny luck though well cop on that the fookin eejits at both ends of the spectrum are a load of bollix and work out how to get over that shite.

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Interestingly the Conservative twitterfeed i am following is completely silent over EU UK negotiations, while in the past they would post hundreds of post about EU talking bad about the UK.
Seems the hardcore Brexiteers are now attacking BJ for being to commie because of tax plans and H2S and green stuff.
And some anti EU propaganda channels and "thinktanks" closed down.

Now almost all of the tweets on this conservative support feed are critical of the CUP.

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21 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Interestingly the Conservative twitterfeed i am following is completely silent over EU UK negotiations, while in the past they would post hundreds of post about EU talking bad about the UK.
Seems the hardcore Brexiteers are now attacking BJ for being to commie because of tax plans and H2S and green stuff.
And some anti EU propaganda channels and "thinktanks" closed down.

Now almost all of the tweets on this conservative support feed are critical of the CUP.

Run out of budget to keep the propaganda machine going it seems. 

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Bank of England deputy governor Sir Jon Cunliffe has warned the European Union that it will need to maintain close financial ties with London if it wants “to be part of global pools of capital and liquidity” after Brexit.

He was also bullish about London’s future prospects, saying that although markets could transfer to EU jurisdiction, it would “not be likely and if it did happen it would not happen quickly”.

It came after chancellor Sajid Javid said in City A.M. today that Britain would not be a “rule-taker” after Brexit when it came to financial services, given the strength of the City.

https://www.cityam.com/bank-of-england-deputy-jon-cunliffe-warns-eu-to-stay-close-to-the-city/

-------------------------
UK's project fear against the EU is not really working if this is their argument.
BJ oomph is dead, lies that for years have been told are now slowly debunked by UK cabinet MP's that were the core people of the Vote leave campaign.

PS, today a fintech company with 250.000 UK clients is closing shop for UK clients, EU clients will be fine.

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13 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Bank of England deputy governor Sir Jon Cunliffe has warned the European Union that it will need to maintain close financial ties with London if it wants “to be part of global pools of capital and liquidity” after Brexit.

He was also bullish about London’s future prospects, saying that although markets could transfer to EU jurisdiction, it would “not be likely and if it did happen it would not happen quickly”.

...

Well he would say that wouldn’t he...

It would be REALLY NEWSWORTHY if he said anything else...could you imagine if a deputy governor said Europe doesn’t need us and the world will move away from us really quickly...

I seem to recall after the big bang in '86 that markets adjusted relatively quickly to a new reality....

I’d find comments about the immutable importance of the Old Lady of Threadneedle St. much more credible if they came from say Christine Lagarde.

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Old BEO was more careful in their words. This shows BEO is under BJ control, not a good sign for realists.

Munich Security Conference this weekend is the Davos for diplomats, and defence chiefs. Macron, Pompeo, Zarif, AKK, Esler, Pelosi, Lavrov, Trudeau, Ghani, etc speaking. And representing Global Britain ? Absolutely nobody. UK boycotting the world.

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

PS, today a fintech company with 250.000 UK clients is closing shop for UK clients, EU clients will be fine.

Unsurprising Leo and need to be treated as the "canary down the mine."

Industries like fintech that leverage technology to improve or offer different services than traditional delivery methods often have completely different investment foundations and financial balance sheets.

They tend to be lighter, employ less people and operate with smaller profit margins. Therefore their "costs" start to outweigh the "benefits" of staying in the UK market or servicing it from there physically much sooner than more traditional or "bricks and mortar" style enterprises.

A lot of traditional enterprises will have already modeled a cost benefit analysis to determine their respective "tipping points" for staying versus leaving the UK, if only on a worst case contingency basis. The only thing stopping many relocating today is that "tipping point" is still some time off plus there remains uncertainty about how hard or soft the UK's exit will be.

So uncertainty and no clarity from the Governments is actually causing many to postpone decision making over staying or leaving.

This subject is a very big elephant in the room.

images - 2020-02-12T094635.991.jpeg

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

...UK's project fear against the EU is not really working if this is their argument....

..BJ oomph is dead , lies that for years have been told are now slowly debunked by UK cabinet MP's that were the core people of the Vote leave  campaign...

The perennial problem is the only measure of Brexit success at their disposal is the EU failing or things like the EU capitulating to the UK's demands. 

Yes that is falling flat on every front.

Like they must be really pissed off the UK's 2019 4th quarter GDP of 0% is below the EU's yet again. GDP spiral is now into its 4th year so it will be amusing to read Javid's underlying assumptions for his budget next month.

It is my belief commentators will finally get off their arse and properly interrogate his numbers. So more pain coming for Brexiteers.

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10 hours ago, Upp3 said:

If it is becoming central issue then the 1% seems plausible, imho likely. Question was what was the most important issue. Not top three, where I would imagine seeing immigration waaay more often than 1%. So I call bullshite on your bullshite.

See the definition of “cute hoor” in the dictionary and you’ll find a pic of every Irishman ever.

we tend to talk out of both sides of our collective mouths but, you can take this to the bank, most Irish people are fed up with the uncontrolled open border bullshite which has been hoisted upon us.

we simply haven’t reached the intersection on the graph yet  where the advantages of EU membership meets our tolerance for this ridiculous imposition of open border policy.

 

 

but please stay tuned, we also have a history or turning on a dime, don’t believe me? Then study the events leading up to the Easter Rising and how we turned allegiance on a dime in that situation.

 

 

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7 hours ago, LeoV said:

Now almost all of the tweets on this conservative support feed are critical of the CUP.

"Contents Under Pressure"

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The tipping point, or financially stressed, is at an all time high according to the International Express. Approaching 500,000 companies. Much doom and gloom throughout the paper, including England being beaten by France.

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1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

...we tend to talk out of both sides of our collective mouths but, you can take this to the bank, most Irish people are fed up with the uncontrolled open border bullshite which has been hoisted upon us.

we simply haven’t reached the intersection on the graph yet  where the advantages of EU membership meets our tolerance for this ridiculous imposition of open border policy...

 

That is amusing.

Ireland along with the UK are the only two EU states not in the Schengen Area and so passport and all types of border control apply at UK and RoI borders for all other EU26 citizens. The issue is no such north/south border control exists between the Republic and NI/UK and that doesn't change with Brexit.

However there is a Brexit silver lining for those anti immigration in Ireland.

Boris says border control on new east/west Irish Sea border NI/RoI to GB will involve "no checks" (But EU/RoI will insist on GB to NI/RoI "checks"). Therefore no more backdoor illegal immigration into the RoI via the UK and for any aliens in the Republic a route to herd them out with no way back. They then become the UK's problem.

This will be the new smuggling route into the UK as shown on this B4 and After Map.

BTW this Republic tolerance with EU crossover you speak of appears some time off. Repeated polls show the Republic has one of the highest EU satisfaction rates of any EU member state. For example.

More than 90% of Irish people want to stay in EU, poll reveals

Frictionless Movement of People West to East Only

EQfkkSUX0AAC9q8.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Sea warrior said:

but please stay tuned, we also have a history or turning on a dime, don’t believe me? Then study the events leading up to the Easter Rising and how we turned allegiance on a dime in that situation.

That was no turning on a dime. Hundreds of years in the making. Tipping point was over a decade of promised Home Rule then upon outbreak of WWI the Home Rule Bill was torn up by London and never enacted. 1916 Easter Rising 2 years after WWI started was a long time coming.

Irish WWI volunteers wasn't allegiance to GB. Most Irish people, regardless of political affiliation, supported the war in much the same way as their British counterparts did. It wasn't GB allegiance or subservient support except for the Ulster Volunteers.

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11 hours ago, LeoV said:

Interestingly the Conservative twitterfeed i am following is completely silent over EU UK negotiations, while in the past they would post hundreds of post about EU talking bad about the UK.
Seems the hardcore Brexiteers are now attacking BJ for being to commie because of tax plans and H2S and green stuff.
And some anti EU propaganda channels and "thinktanks" closed down.

Now almost all of the tweets on this conservative support feed are critical of the CUP.

Leo I think I have stumbled across the answer.

Firstly here is a good example you speak of aired on Radio 4 (which Johnson and Downing St hate with a passion and want a new BBC Director General to pull into line.) This Tory MP Michael Fabricant belongs to a group calling themselves the  "HS2 Review Group of MPs" critical of HS2. But is it all it appears??

I then noticed this Fabricant fellow is a chronic deleter of Tweets to the extent you think he tweets when drunk. This one caught my eye being agricultural in nature he deleted one hour after posting it. Under instruction??

Now it would seem this Tory MP did a Dorothy Dix question of the Home Secretary Priti Patel in the HOC this week querying availability of low skilled farm workers.

Her reply indicated immediately why he had deleted that tweet seeking assurances about low skilled labour in his own electorate of Lichfield. No such assurances can be forthcoming.

To explain.

That horrible piece of work Patel said the Govt were doubling numbers of the Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme (SAWS)Now that is complete bullshit.

It is a Pilot Scheme only with currently a limit 2,500 workers limited to 6 months a year. So the limit increases to 5,000 according to Patel.

However the UK fruit and vegetable growers, say they employ around 60,000 workers a year, mostly from eastern Europe. Many are now required all year round because of investment in greenhouse style infrastructure. Furthermore since WWII the UK has always had a SAWS style scheme.  In 2013 having a 22,000 limit it was actually scrapped after additional eastern European countries joined the EU, providing farmers with ample labour.

So what is going on? The answer is simple the Government are trying to paint an illusion they have brought in a tough new immigration policy. They are now cooking immigration numbers in that famous oven.

This article in last weekend's  Sunday Times explains this Tory HOC Q&A shitfuckery where claims that the Government’s new immigration rules will reduce unskilled EU migration to the UK by around 90,000 a year.  It also says “the number of skilled migrants coming to the UK … [is] currently 65,000 a year. At the moment they are split equally between EU and non-EU migrants.” Sunday Times 9 Feb 2020

Unfortunately it appears the Home Office can't add up. 90,000 EU migrants came to the UK for work in the year ending June 2019 according to the ONS . If roughly 32,500 (half of 65,000) are skilled, then around 57,500 must be unskilled. This 57,500 equates to just the above fruit & vegetable industry numbers. Therefore you can’t reduce 57,500 by 90,000. 

The Government are running a very tight ship in terms of public perception. I'm of the belief using the above example of this Fabricant fellow attacking the HS2 but quickly deleting a Tweet exposing the Governments fake immigration numbers that examples of Brexiteers now attacking Johnson over tax plans and H2S etc are being largely directed by the Government's PR machine.

It is for the dual purpose of diverting attention away from things Brexit and adding a picture of transparency and accountability using internal party division that is being manufactured.

It is all spin and shitfuckery.

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Fuck the whole ‘global Britain’ aspect of Brexit is not really going to plan ....who is going to break the news to Johnson a EU market is more important to the US than one a tenth its size and one it is already negotiating a FTA with?

Top Trump Adviser Says U.K. Slips Behind EU in Trade PrioritiesU.S. will conduct trade negotiations with the EU before the U.K - Reversal from previous months of promises that U.K. negotiations would come first

360x-1 (1).jpg

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

That is amusing.

Ireland along with the UK are the only two EU states not in the Schengen Area and so passport and all types of border control apply at UK and RoI borders for all other EU26 citizens. The issue is no such north/south border control exists between the Republic and NI/UK and that doesn't change with Brexit.

However there is a Brexit silver lining for those anti immigration in Ireland.

Boris says border control on new east/west Irish Sea border NI/RoI to GB will involve "no checks" (But EU/RoI will insist on GB to NI/RoI "checks"). Therefore no more backdoor illegal immigration into the RoI via the UK and for any aliens in the Republic a route to herd them out with no way back. They then become the UK's problem.

This will be the new smuggling route into the UK as shown on this B4 and After Map.

BTW this Republic tolerance with EU crossover you speak of appears some time off. Repeated polls show the Republic has one of the highest EU satisfaction rates of any EU member state. For example.

More than 90% of Irish people want to stay in EU, poll reveals

Frictionless Movement of People West to East Only

EQfkkSUX0AAC9q8.jpeg

Admittedly, I was undecided as to whether you were/are just another an Internet “hero” or perhaps you did in fact have first hand knowledge of the facts and nuances on the ground but this post has removed all of my doubts 

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Meanwhile the EU keep pumping out stuff that runs counter to Brexiteer propaganda.

For instance the UK by being a member of EU is being denied access to least developed countries (read they have lots of cheap stuff the UK currently can't import) which is nonsense.

The EU message is in today’s economy imports are as important as exports. Imported components are part of every country’s exports and protectionism doesn’t protect jobs.

"Thanks to our trade preferences, the EU imports twice as much from least developed countries as the rest of the world does. This trademark tool of the EU's trade policy underpins millions of jobs in the world's poorest countries"

Trade preferences boost developing countries' exports to the European Union

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22 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Admittedly, I was undecided as to whether you were/are just another an Internet “hero” or perhaps you did in fact have first hand knowledge of the facts and nuances on the ground but this post has removed all of my doubts 

I also have no doubt by you saying that, you have realised your argument that Ireland is poised to campaign against the EU over immigration has run out of gas.

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14 hours ago, mad said:

Run out of budget to keep the propaganda machine going it seems.  

That , and do not publish anything about brexit seems to be line for many right wing papers, even the Sun has not posted anything about it for days. Brexit is done decided by BJ and a group of Billionaires newspaper owners.

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6 minutes ago, LeoV said:

That , and do not publish anything about brexit seems to be line for many right wing papers, even the Sun has not posted anything about it for days. Brexit is done decided by BJ and a group of Billionaires newspaper owners.

Much easier to slide unpopular legislation through and avoid too much embarrassment if most of the media are in line and there’s very little reporting..... maybe the budget will grab some attention?

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For the record ireland doesnt have an open door policy and fights and footdrags on imigration at every oportunity at an institutional level.

"Weve collonised the world, but forgot to mind the castle" was one if the first things said to me when i moved to ireland.

Irelands refugee centers are the dirrect equivelent of the industrial schools and magdeline laundries. Its a deliberate policy aimed at discoraging immigration. Refugees are warehoused.

Mean while the tabloid press loves nothing more than reporting on east european crime gangs yet fails to bring up whonthe perpotrators of the recent butchering of a junior drug dealer where. His body parts when distributed liberally around Dublin by a gang from, shall we say, closer to the border (just to bring that back to brexit)

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Would also say that Sin fein now has structural issues with its base not disimular to the labour party in the UK. It just aquired suport from young progressive and agnostic. The focus of this movement is on addressing the conditions in the refugee centres and removing church influence on health and education. Sin Feins traditional base may have different views and priorities

 

 

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47 minutes ago, mad said:

Much easier to slide unpopular legislation through and avoid too much embarrassment if most of the media are in line and there’s very little reporting..... maybe the budget will grab some attention?

Maybe it will allow BJ signing up to a softer exit. you never know. As most papers wanted hard, the silence is maybe good. Home problems are so big the exact outcome of brexit is unimportant. Democracy is upheld.
Still I think he will go hard.

Anyway, WA is signed, UK will pay obligations, GFA is kind of safe, EU citizens in the UK have some rights.

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1 hour ago, morrisre said:

Would also say that Sin fein now has structural issues with its base not disimular to the labour party in the UK. It just aquired suport from young progressive and agnostic. The focus of this movement is on addressing the conditions in the refugee centres and removing church influence on health and education. Sin Feins traditional base may have different views and priorities

Good point about the structural base but pragmatism and radicalism has always been Sinn Féin's calling card as well leaders sort of borrowing the name and successfuly reshaping it in line with their own thinking. The Gerry Adams Party succeeded marginalising it's IRA base and attracting moderates in the north but that was never going to really fly south of the border. This Mary Lou Party changed that literally overnight albeit with a lot of help from incumbents. But yes if they don't accommodate and repay this new and large (and very large by any measure) constituency, they won't stay there for long.

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10 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Industries like fintech that leverage technology to improve or offer different services than traditional delivery methods often have completely different investment foundations and financial balance sheets.

They tend to be lighter, employ less people and operate with smaller profit margins. Therefore their "costs" start to outweigh the "benefits" of staying in the UK market or servicing it from there physically much sooner than more traditional or "bricks and mortar" style enterprises.

Yep, and the smaller fintechs are leaving first due to higher cost. Leaving a few big players. And everyone knows what happens if there is a duopoly, higher costs.

In almost all sectors this will count, UK is a small market and not rich but midfield in Europe (gpd capita). So explore new markets in 27 countries makes more sense then investing in one small market with a bunch of gamblers as politicians.

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54 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Maybe it will allow BJ signing up to a softer exit. you never know. As most papers wanted hard, the silence is maybe good. Home problems are so big the exact outcome of brexit is unimportant. Democracy is upheld.
Still I think he will go hard.

Anyway, WA is signed, UK will pay obligations, GFA is kind of safe, EU citizens in the UK have some rights.

A (very) small part of me is wondering if BJ was/is so blinded by winning the seat of PM and the election, at any cost, that he now finds himself staring down the barrel of a gun wondering what the fuck to do next.  Appeasing the hardliners is going to fuck the economy and almost guarantees his place in history as the PM who governed for one term, the term that led to the demise of the UK and its economy.  In a few years time there's going to be a whole new generation asking why they can't easily work and travel in Europe, at that stage BJ and his cronies will be the most vilified people in the country.  He's truly holding the poison chalice at the moment.

The security detail for this lot is going to cost a fortune.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

.... maybe the budget will grab some attention?

 

52 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Maybe it will allow BJ signing up to a softer exit. you never know.

The million dollar question. Will Economics and Brexit ever see centre stage together? Surely commentators can't keep marginalising the subject.

There is a huge GDP gap between May's BRINO and Johnsons Australia Deal that even exceeds Treasury's 2017 and 2018 impact assessments (actually factored in regulation tweaks slightly increasing GDP but excluded immigration changes with associated large negative impacts).

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Quote

More than 50 British nationals working for the European commission in Brussels have obtained Irish passports, which can help secure career progression, it has emerged.

Data released by the commission shows 120 officials with British nationality have secured additional passports of an EU state since March 2017, when the official article 50 notice was given that the UK was leaving the bloc.

According to the Irish broadcaster RTÉ, 10% of the 569 Irish passport holders working for the commission were originally British passport holders.

Quote

Last month, it emerged that 1,403 British nationals in Belgium had naturalised and have Belgian passports, up from 506 in 2016 and 127 in 2015.

This is part of an EU-wide trend, with more than 350,000 UK citizens living in Britain or a member state opting for dual nationality as a post-Brexit insurance policy.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/12/british-nationals-working-in-brussels-snap-up-irish-passports

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BJ has around 20 weeks to decide. Budget will at least have to show 5 Billion earmarked for upgrades to borders directly to show he is serious.
(Rotterdam port alone spend over half a billion for Brexit on infrastructure and services to manage 3000 trucks going to the UK daily).

As with so much in Brexit, the process depends on voters forgetting. Forget that the referendum was delivered with a slender margin  on the promise of business as usual with extra benefits and no negatives. Seems to have been a lie. And all lies were known beforehand for anyone with internet and a morsel of a brain. UK brexit vote was a mass hysteria for around 40 % of leave voters. They believed facebook groups more then experts. And they had the EU and the national elections to rectify it spanning a few years. Nope...
So the UK will have its sovereignty but less influence on the world.

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https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/ministers-reflect/person/david-lidington/

So much in that about the past...

The key issue that we couldn’t get, which clearly had a big impact on the referendum, was on migration. Now, you can argue it two ways. You can say there was a lack of imagination on the EU side, to see what was coming and the importance of this issue. Or you could say that on the UK side, there was an unwillingness to spell out hard truths to the British electorate at an earlier stage. And perhaps it was a bit of both.

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49 minutes ago, LeoV said:

BJ has around 20 weeks to decide. Budget will at least have to show 5 Billion earmarked for upgrades to borders directly to show he is serious.
(Rotterdam port alone spend over half a billion for Brexit on infrastructure and services to manage 3000 trucks going to the UK daily).

As with so much in Brexit, the process depends on voters forgetting. Forget that the referendum was delivered with a slender margin  on the promise of business as usual with extra benefits and no negatives. Seems to have been a lie. And all lies were known beforehand for anyone with internet and a morsel of a brain. UK brexit vote was a mass hysteria for around 40 % of leave voters. They believed facebook groups more then experts. And they had the EU and the national elections to rectify it spanning a few years. Nope...
So the UK will have its sovereignty but less influence on the world.

Still waiting for someone to properly explain what this so called sovereignty is and the benefits......

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The sovereignty balance

Here we look in detail at the key areas where the EU currently impinges on UK sovereignty, and how much sovereignty the UK could reclaim if we voted to leave.

It is important to note that in a globalised world, all nation states make continual trade-offs on sovereignty.

Membership of Nato, which includes Article 5 obligation to come to the mutual defence of fellow members, implies a loss of sovereignty over deploying UK forces, but we deem the trade-off a worthwhile price for our national security.

Membership of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) also commits the UK to supra-national regulation and arbitration, but again we make the trade off since on balance we deem it good for our national prosperity.

Membership of the EU - whether full or partial, in the event of a “Brexit” - will also necessarily require some trade-offs on sovereignty.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/19/how-does-the-eu-impinge-on-british-sovereignty-and-if-the-uk-vot/

From before the referendum, and Tory graph. And a balanced article by Foster.

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Sovereignty is the inherent and independent right to do all that is necessary to govern oneself. People are sovereign but individuals delegate some of their sovereign power to various tiers of government up to their national government.

So delegation is a fact of life. It therefore can be strongly argued that pulling up the Brexit drawbridge and taking back all delegation doesnt enhance national sovereignty but weakens it.

Scratchy outsiders with few friends don't influence events in an ever more complex and interdependent world where that influence is often wielded in places like the UN, NATO, WTO and the EU.

Compare these two photos of the UK rep at the WTO. One sitting at the EU table before 31 January and the other now sitting alone beside the Ukraine. Whose voice was the louder on those two days?

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Haha, he's even stuck his sign up to stick out a bit, that'll help.

Politics Live has become boring without the daily Brexit shenanigans.  No mention of import checks & duties in the ports, impact of that on businesses, traffic, veterinary & phytosanitary inspection facilities and subsequent paperwork/certification for import/export of meat/fish/plants and holding the politicians to account for current policies and/or direction swings vs what they proclaimed earlier.

The blanket black out seems to be working and nobody asking questions ..... odd! 

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1 hour ago, Upp3 said:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200206IPR72012/parliament-approves-eu-vietnam-free-trade-and-investment-protection-deals

And kinda to bring that news back to the forum topic: is there other manufacturers in Vietnam than Corsair?

 

edit. it seems that EU is doing ftas left and right. Does that leave room for UK to make ftas?

Ha ha not sure about speedy. . EU/Vietnam FTA negotiations started 8 years ago, negotiations completed 4 years ago and FTA signed off middle of last year. Both Parliament's only now just ratified. That is four FTA's down in SE Asia with another 3 on the boil plus Australia in the same neck of the woods and in same Pacific trade block(s) as them. UK might have to take a number.

PS. You may recall Rees Mogg going on about Brexit and tariff free footware. That is Vietnam's largest export to the EU. Is there something cheaper than zero tariff footware?

The US imported Corsairs (not the Tri version though) to Vietnam in the 60's before that whole deal went to shit.

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