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Brexit WTF, WTF

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You need to go back to troll school. You are not very good at it.

2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Australia has a points based immigration system, saying it’s a points based process is a liberal left wing do gooder type way of just saying we have a points based immigration system, however you want to disguise it. 

This summarises over 20 years of Australia's immigration policy and systems. Australia's Migration Program. You will see it makes no mention of employment prerequisites, income or even points. Hence points is a procedure or process occuring at the back end. 

Now you point to the UK's immigration policy outside its points based system (that has been in place for the last 12 years) inclusive of job prerequisite and income points and now modified slightly. You can't.

The two are like chalk and cheese.

2 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Let’s face it Australia has had in recent past one of the most racist immigration policy of the westernised world, the U.K. in the same period one of the least. It’s only of late where that has changed. 

So Australia having far greater immigrant numbers by population annually than the UK and sitting alongside Germany and Canada in the World's Top 3 is fake. Write to your ONS and tell them to fix the UK's immigration stats quick smart.

No wonder you are so easily duped and can't differentiate between illegal and legal immigration. That it something you can't disguise.

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4 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

You also have to admit that Australia has for the past and present has had a very tight immigration policy which has controlled the number of immigrants to what is actually required to sustain a healthy economy. 

Wayne now to tell you how you have been duped by the Government (incl the Brown Govt in 2008) by referencing Australia to its points immigration system. For that you probably should be given some leeway, though you not knowing you have had this points shit for 12 years is hardly helpful to having your opinions given much credence.

Firstly, the UK Government have relied upon  you equating "tight" policy with "low" immigration numbers and you have swallowed their shitfuckery. As indicated above that is nonsence where by every measure Aust immigration exceeds the UK's and is a world leader.

What the Government have done is leverage only one aspect of that "tight" policy. That is zero tolerance to "illegal immigration," but unlike most countries, Australia actually doing something about it and utilising offshore detention for those caught. That was prosecuted by Govt of both persuasions to bring down the axe on "people smugglers" whose activities and demand for their services so high were drowning 1000's in the seas between Australia's north and the Indian and SE Asian continents. A humanatarian response to bodies going to the bottom.

It is this aspect and this aspect only that has been sensationalised by the media thus making it to the front pages internationally and it is this aspect Britain's have been duped to believe is representative of Australia's points immigration system and to ignore (or in your case refute) that Aust only uses points for process not policy. It is what has fuelled your rediculous claim that Australia has "one of the most racist immigration policy of the westernised world." You have swallowed the lie, hook line and sinker.

As an aside, true refugee (not economic refugees) or humanitarian intakes in Australia is also one of the world's highest by resident population, again exceeding the UK's.

The second aspect the Government have leveraged is that of Australian immigrants, where those from the UK form the greatest proportion and status in the eyes of Brits. Everyone in the UK knows someone from Australia and it is a country many aspire to visiting if they haven't already, or even migrating to. It's flag still contains the Union Jack and UK royalty are treated like royalty even the fuckwits.  It is why the 35 year old Aust sitcom Neighbours is still going as it is actually more popular in the UK than in Australia. The UK trusts the Australian brand.

Finally do you think of all the countries in the world that do not have a FTA with the EU (but have many Trade Arrangements), that the Government chose Australia by accident to label a No Deal with the EU??? 

It is called Govt shitfuckery and propoganda and those in Australia are not happy about the implied racial slur Johnson has elected to utilise at its expense. You will will find that out on his first Aust visit, even if the Murdoch press try to suppress pics of him dodging eggs.

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8 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Never knock that with cheap rhetoric of the type a Jack uses to support a biased narrative.

So Wayne "cheap rhetoric".....so "no backup evidence" furnished...a "biased narrative"???? Surely it is not simply one opposing your unsubstantiated one Wayne???? You are entertaining if nothing else.

Anyway Wayne now to complete the trifecta having guided you above to first Australia's Immigration Policies year by year over the last 20 years to prove they are not points driven "policies" but a points only "process" sitting in front of detailed policies, despite you refuting that with clearly no knowledge of even the subject policies. Interesting approach, dismiss what you know nothing of despite being told.

Secondly detailing how your Government has duped you into believing that simply labeling the UK's Points System Australian equates to lower immigration numbers. Here are some more facts to finish off this biased narrative.

BTW Wayne this isn't directed to you so don't feel compelled to respond, in fact would prefer if you didn't and went limp biscuit as you normally do.

Clearly those in the UK view themselves differently to how the rest of the world views them and they appear ignorant to this fact. However UK policies that directly effect the rest of the world like immigration people take note of. Hence why the rest of the world can't square these circles that those in the UK do so with ease. For example.

1. In 2008 Gordon Brown introduced the UK Points Immigration System (calling it Australian just like Johnson has). UK Visa Changes 2008

Johnsons is nearly identical save for the salary floor is lower. Yet except for a period post GFC (impacting upon immigrants looking for work) and Government austerity measures kicking in, both gross and net immigration numbers increased. In fact hitting their highest in the lead up to the 2016 referendum? Net immigration then fell away for reasons unrelated to immigration policy. Simply more people left than arrived on account of referendum result.

So the rest of the world is now asking; " Why do people in the UK think Johnson's version which is little different to Browns, is going to have a different outcome?"

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2. Putting aside it is not "policy" there are two countries in the world who have had a points "process" the longest. The first Canada nearly 40 years ago followed by Australia nearly a decade later in the late 1990's. Yet both countries are in the World's Top 4 measuring immigrant rate as a percentage of population.

The rest of the world now asks; "Why hasn't anyone in the UK noticed over the last 12 years that points systems, including their own, have increased migration and where it's nominated proxy Australia is a world immigration leader?"

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3. In that period post 2008 this ONS 2019 graph shows it was non EU immigration that dominated over immigrants from the EU particularly post referendum and with EU nationals leaving in droves. The rest of the world believes Johnson's new Points System (lacking in a policy foundation) has "lowered the bar" to their entry exacerbating that differential and driving non EU immigration higher.

The rest of the world says thank you, but now asks; "Why hasn't the UK at large twigged to this anomaly in increased immigration?"

Note: Farage is an exception picking up on this  @5.40  Farage Interview - 21 Feb 2020 and calling for salary levels to be increased.

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4. Finally leaving the best until last as the above and these ONS 2019 graphs show. In the year ending June 2019, long-term international migration continued to add to the UK population as an estimated 200k more people with an intention to stay 12 months or more than left the UK (net migration). This is around 100K less than 4 years ago. Long-term net migration, immigration and emigration have remained broadly stable since the end of 2016.

The level of net immigration is approaching its lowest level in 7 years since the post GFC/initial austerity impact  low point of mid 2012. Then immigration is now favouring education, not work. Current high rates of employment and where students dominate the Home Office's recent invention called the "economic inactive" support this. There is also an aging non-productive population to factor in.

So if current voluntary migration outflows continue at their current rate and this new immigration policy comes into effect, the UK is then on the cusp of having to increase immigration to remain productive.

The rest of the world is now asking; "Why does the UK think it has a immigration problem, when arguably it appears the reverse applies. It is about to start running out of productive people."

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The only thing that may accomodate net immigration continuing to decrease is employment opportunities retreating on account of a reversal in economic fortunes, much like that which occured post the GFC and bottoming out in mid 2012 as shown in the above graphs. Then again this is difficult to reconcile against Government plans to increase infrastucture spending (which would act as a recessionary buffer) where skilled labour is a vital ingredient.

Or maybe the overarching answer is this immigration policy has been prepared for Brexit and economy going pear shaped?

The world thinks the Brits are a very strange bunch.

ONS - Migration Statistics Report: November 2019 Note: February Qtr stats due next week.

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8 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

You also have to admit that Australia has for the past and present has had a very tight immigration policy which has controlled the number of immigrants to what is actually required to sustain a healthy economy. The U.K. the complete opposite with no control over those from the EU and only superficial controls from the rest of the world,  which has lead to a society where there are far too many living at the bottom of the tree with no way of climbing the branches without fear that you will be replaced with an even lower branch and a productivity level worsening by the years.

Weird that the brexit was needed to get changes to your immigration policy. I'm living in EU and we do have control over EU immigrants.

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8 minutes ago, Upp3 said:

Weird that the brexit was needed to get changes to your immigration policy. I'm living in EU and we do have control over EU immigrants.

Fuck, Upp...you are messing with a religion there.

For fucks sake don't tell him that also occurs inside the Schengen Zone. He will go mental.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck, Upp...you are messing with a religion there.

I just find it sad that the preachers prey the poor. I've never heard the rich paying tithes.

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just some foreign views on the UKs immigration problems, from FT interview with Merkel:

FT: One historical point is that there are some remainers, so to speak, who said: If only the german Chancellor had given David Cameron  a little more flexibility at that time regarding freedom of movement, we would have won the referendum. Is this a fair assessment or does it just mean that people have completely misunderstood how the European Union works? - I don't want to ask any further questions about Brexit.   Merkel: No, this is an absolute shortening of the situation. With the Tories, the decision to hold a referendum at all had grown over many years. It was also Tony Blair's British government that never wanted transitional periods for free movement. Right from the start, people wanted immediate access for all Eastern Europeans to the British labor market. We have been sharply criticized in part for having waited with Poland, our neighbor, for seven years before we introduced this free movement. Great Britain has benefited greatly from this free movement; it has brought a lot of good to the UK labor market; a lot of work could be done very cost-effectively. But the integration of children in schools and the consequences for the health system were just the other side of the coin. Before the referendum, I was in favor of defining freedom of movement somewhat more restrictively in some points. But there were many Central and Eastern European countries that of course saw things a little differently.   It was shown that Great Britain is highly divided over the question of EU membership and that it is also an urban-rural conflict. Incidentally, we have more or less that in all of our countries. What Boris Johnson has now decided as Prime Minister for Great Britain: to prepare the country for the common future is the right answer under the given conditions.

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1 hour ago, jgh66 said:

Merkel: "....It was also Tony  Blair's British government that never wanted transitional  periods for free movement. Right from the start, people wanted immediate access for all Eastern Europeans to the British labor market. We have been sharply criticized in part for having waited with Poland, our neighbor, for seven years before we introduced this free movement.

Great Britain has benefited greatly from this free movement; it has brought a lot of good to the UK labor market; a lot of work could be done very cost-effectively. But the integration of children in schools and the consequences for the health system were just the other side of the coin...."

What a good reveal over UK demanding immediate free movement with eastern states. The EU8 are in fact leading the charge now to get out of the place with net numbers now minus 15k. What a great bit of work.

As for the impact of this increased movement of people Labour spending accomodated it. But then the Tory Government for the last decade has cut the guts out of all social services "supply spending."  They now have the gall to say it is a "demand" problem blaming the immigration they benefited from plus now using it as a pillar to prop up their Brexit alter to stop it falling over and crushing them while praying at it.

Lying fuckers.

PS. They even fucked up austerity spending with public sector net debt up from just over £1 trillion in 2010 now bumping up against £1.8 trillion. Tories were regarded as the economic managers and the party for business. Economic vandals and now business wants to see them gone.

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More glossy shitfuckery from Truss's department.

Where is the why, the how and the evidence that a UK/EU FTA produces these increased opportunities to export to the US market. Why don't these opportunities exist today?

For instance with US the US hitting China with high tariffs on their Footware and Apparel why aren't these UK manufacturers going hang busters now???

 

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And not just pretty dresses ....Liz Truss  has actually carved out a picture of what the sunlit uplands of Brexit looks like.

Here for the UK's £1.9 billion agricultural machinary export industry, especialy that £1.1bn worth of tractors.

- A FTA with the US? Not necessary as US zero tarriffs.

- OK FTA other countries? Not necessary as WTO zero tarriffs.

- Well what about the savings of casting aside the shackles of EU protective farm equipment tarriffs and buying from the arguably the world's best, the USA. Not necessary as the EU zero tarriffs.

- Well what about the UK having its own agricultural machinery standards? Depends on the importing country but they are happy with today's EU equivalence and not really interested in buying into some new UK regulatory invention to complicate and add costs. 

I wonder if anyone will reveal one day what Brexit is about? 

BTW guess where the majority of that £1.9 billion is exported today???

 

 

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Compare the Views on their respective speeches.

As someone said any day now FF will be wheeling in a 1975 IRA knee capping victim.

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Spectator magazine just wrote some something pretending the transition period didn't exist plus making some very odd shit up.

Britain is booming – despite Brexit

This is my favourite paragraph.

"Next year, when we will be released from EU rules, there will be more changes. A new immigration system will make it harder for unskilled workers to enter Britain — and we can expect some grumbling. Employers might have to pay more, or do more to train employees. Care homes who say they struggle to attract British staff may have to raise their salaries to something more befitting a job as important as caring for the elderly."

So blocking unskilled migrant labour is all designed so employees can pay people who are skilled at being unskilled, more money so they can get more points and a visa or avoid being deported. Then for British citizens who have no skills, upskill them to unskilled or if they are skilled, deskill them to be unskilled and so pay them more as a reward for working with the elderly. There are question marks as where these people come from, except those ending up working in the very nursing homes they reside in, or are close to death or both.

There is lots of skilling and de-skilling to be done.

I'm thinking Wayne had a hand writing this article.

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Fuck no wonder they tightened immigration rules. They are expecting an exodus, a human tsunami rolling into England to escape this EU meltdown.

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Jack, do you ever question yourself and your rhetoric that the whole Brexit thingee may have very little to do with money and short term things but more to do with well being and long term future. I guess if you can’t answer the question that not everybody equates money as the ultimate thing in life as a positive,  Brexit will just be a incomprehensible idea that only brainwashed people of lower statue would even comprehend.

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3 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

Jack, do you ever question yourself and your rhetoric that the whole Brexit thingee may have very little to do with money and short term things but more to do with well being and long term future. I guess if you can’t answer  the question...

Wayne if Brexit is not about national wealth or standard of living, then what is it all about?

The Government, leave promoters, eurosceptics and even yourself refuse to answer that simple question. Why??  People now think that is because there is no answer. 

BTW how is that big sovereignty boost thing working out? I see your Home Secretary here is celebrating a blue passport weaker than the one it replaced and symbolising the removal of UK citizens rights to move and operate freely across their own continent.

Though the Northern Irish, (who the Tories secretly despise), being entitled to a red Republican passport, retaining those rights plus staying in the EU Single Market is pretty funny. Nearly as funny as that passport of hers being printed in a Polish factory by a French company.

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More "framing" shitfuckery from pompous Andrew Neil. "UK won't accept that (EJC)"??? 

He is the boss at Spectator and even his tea boy could point him to S130 and 131 of the Political Declaration as signed and the EU's negotiation position reflects that as Barniers mandate as currently printed shows this a non issue.

An "independent arbitration panel" is proposed as the WTO can't oblige to resolve EU-UK disputes. Not the ECJ. But ECJ would be sole arbiter of any questions about interpretation of EU law.

What can the UK's response be to that. Ignore the Political Declaration they have signed and ask to have a British Court interpret EU Law or set up a whole new court for interpretation? Nonsense.

It is also interesting to note the Customs have given no directions to commence infrastructure to comply with the Irish Protocol and have it ready by 31 Dec so it appears Johnson is just ignoring the Deal he signed. Disputes ion that aspect however are determined by the EJC as agreed.

Painting the EU as the bad guys and acting in bad faith using shitfuckery was tried last time and look how that ended up.

PS. The Sun with an article written by James Forsyth who is Editor at the Spectator continues in the same vein.

UK and EU are miles apart on Brexit talks and deal is about to blow up

 

 

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11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Spectator magazine just wrote some something pretending the transition period didn't exist plus making some very odd shit up.

Britain is booming – despite Brexit

This is my favourite paragraph.

"Next year, when we will be released from EU rules, there will be more changes. A new immigration system will make it harder for unskilled workers to enter Britain — and we can expect some grumbling. Employers might have to pay more, or do more to train employees. Care homes who say they struggle to attract British staff may have to raise their salaries to something more befitting a job as important as caring for the elderly."

So blocking unskilled migrant labour is all designed so employees can pay people who are skilled at being unskilled, more money so they can get more points and a visa or avoid being deported. Then for British citizens who have no skills, upskill them to unskilled or if they are skilled, deskill them to be unskilled and so pay them more as a reward for working with the elderly. There are question marks as where these people come from, except those ending up working in the very nursing homes they reside in, or are close to death or both.

There is lots of skilling and de-skilling to be done.

I'm thinking Wayne had a hand writing this article.

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Ohhh, I like that map of the UK 

It’s as it should be and Hopefully, I’ll live long enough to see it be so.

 

 

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Continuing things Irish.

England lining up against Ireland at Twickers (which will be chockers) later today in 6 Nations RU. A must win for England otherwise they are gone having already lost to France. Ireland (Ireland 11 games to Eng 9 in last 20 clashes but only 40% success rate at Twickers) win they get the Triple Crown (Home Nations Wales/Eng/Scotland) and hot favourite for the double. 

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Big "Row Back" On Immigration??

Johnson's Environment Secretary George Eustice just interviewed on Skys Sophie Ridge. Clearly had prepared answers to questions on immigration involving big row backs. 

- Patel's 8.5 million "economic active" is not meant to be sole source of low skilled labour and policy will be continually reviewed so supply matches demand ie.immigration bar will be lowered for unskilled labour if needed.

- The 10,000 workers in Seasonal Agriculturural Workers Scheme (SAWS) is still a trial and will end in Dec. Then new number for 2021 will be announced acknowledging industry is asking for it to be 70,000.

Note: He was well briefed ie. he got right that SAWS 10,000 is 4X existing 2,500 not 2X as stated by Patel in Parliament.

It's now looking more and more like shitfuckery to give the illusion they're tough on immigration. As posted upthread they can then rely on Net Immigration dropping all by itself without the need for any intervention. Latest immigration stats (to Oct 2019) due out end of this week will be interesting with this in mind.

How is it possible to tell what is the truth anymore? Imagine if you had a business getting two completely different messages in the same week about where your employees were coming from including changes in wage/training costs.

Farage will go mental upon hearing about this row back. He is demanding Government cap numbers and raise salary thresholds.

 

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

..It is also interesting to note UK Customs have given no directions to commence infrastructure to comply with the Irish Protocol and have it ready by 31 Dec so it appears Johnson is just ignoring the Deal he signed.....

Now making it official by putting it in The Times

 

Interesting to remember Geoffrey Cox the previous AG  refused to rule on Johnson's no Irish border checks ....enter Cummings new AG and tea girl, Suella Braverman who is as right wing as they get get.

This McDonagh is former Irish Ambassador to the EU, UK and Italy.

Note. Amazing how many people can't read. McDonagh has said nothing about Brexit outcomes breaching or otherwise the Good Friday Agreement. He is simply stating if the UK are in breach of the Withdrawal Agreement the US will act using GFA prervation as their excuse (noting that breach is referred to the European Court of Justice and outside the UK/Belfast High Courts jurisdiction). 

 

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UK government keeps on talking trash about the EU as they need an enemy. As internally they are still at war with civil service, jurisdiction, parliament, bbc, business and everyone not agreeing 100% with them.
Even their Taskforce Europe is briefing about EU being divided & in disarray with false claims. Budget as always yes there is division,  regarding Brexit not yet.
Wait till EU really gets divided on Brexit, then it will be No Trade Deal.


It is all for the UK public while Bj is dreaming of global Britannia.
But for sure, no one knows the ultimate position of the UK and what it wants. All the talk about they want Canada, but that has a supranational court in it. So a nono for real Brexiteers.
We just have to wait till they has to admit what they want. As for now their talk is all confusing and conflicting. Could be a tactic or stupidity.

In the meantime  Poland has passed UK as trade partner with Germany.

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

UK government keeps on talking trash about the EU as they need an enemy... 

As if the EU will not have expected Team Johnsons amateurish grandstanding and using NI to put pressure on the FTA. It's a well trod path. Is it possible that they have finally accepted that Brexit is going to end badly so turning up the blame volume?

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19 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Wayne if Brexit is not about national wealth or standard of living, then what is it all about?

Sometimes Jack there’s more to life than money and I would suspect that being fed by a gifted silver spoon all your life, you have no idea that a great number of people do actually live by other codes than the dollar. 
 

I have no pretensions that you will ever understand why 17.4 million voted to make their lives potentially poorer in dollar terms but were willing to offset that loss for a different way of life, which they perceived to be of a greater benefit than the loss of a few dollars.

Sorry Jack whatever I were to put in writing as to why they voted as they did, you would never understand as your miserable up bringing and narrow minded perception that money buys the holy grail of life, that of happiness, would be a total waste of my time as I know you would be incapable of understanding anything that is not dollar related. 

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20 minutes ago, Waynemarlow said:

Sometimes Jack there’s more to life than money and I would suspect that being fed by a gifted silver spoon all your life, you have no idea that a great number of people do actually live by other codes than the dollar. 
 

I have no pretensions that you will ever understand why 17.4 million voted to make their lives potentially poorer in dollar terms but were willing to offset that loss for a different way of life, which they perceived to be of a greater benefit than the loss of a few dollars.

Sorry Jack whatever I were to put in writing as to why they voted as they did, you would never understand as your miserable up bringing and narrow minded perception that money buys the holy grail of life, that of happiness, would be a total waste of my time as I know you would be incapable of understanding anything that is not dollar related. 

The peak of British manufacturing making its own rules e.g.British Leyland, the traditional British sausage (yes minister), fish and chips wrapped in newsprint, worst customer service in the world. Insular diet. These are the things brexiteers yearn for,  but impossible without Brexit.  MGBGA.

Comfort from living in the past is more important than quality and standard of living any day. 

 

 

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On 2/23/2020 at 7:11 AM, jack_sparrow said:

Wayne if Brexit is not about national wealth or standard of living, then what is it all about?

The Government, leave promoters, eurosceptics and even yourself refuse to answer that simple question. Why??  

 

6 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

...I have no pretensions that you will ever understand why 17.4 million voted ..... for  a different way of life, which they perceived to be of a greater benefit  than the loss of a few dollars....

So Brexit is a "different way of life" incorporating a "reduced standard of living."

But 17.4 million people in the UK, including you and the Government, can't say or don't know what that "different way of life" entails. The other 48 million are left in the dark and sit idly by. 

Billions of words written about Brexit in the last 4 years and yet no one knows why. Ohhhh dear.

PS. The UK ever rejoining the EU is out of the question. No-one lets insane people join their club, unless it is a mental institution.

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9 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mad will be happy 24 - 12 and England still in the running for the 6 Nations.

 

 

Was great game, and the final score doesn’t reflect the game really.  But a good afternoon out with a load of 6 nations fans, all wondering slightly what happens next year. 
 

The day trips to watch in France, Italy and Ireland could become a travel nightmare and the same for the fans travelling to the UK.......

 

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Rugby is low key......but the football/soccer industry might have something to say about it.

I wonder if anybody thought of that? 

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5 minutes ago, mad said:

Was great game, and the final score doesn’t reflect the game really.

Ireland reminded me of Australia ....ball handling skills gone missing, played one dimensional didn't mix things up etc. The score flattered them which is a bit of a worry for England.

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37 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Ireland reminded me of Australia ....ball handling skills gone missing, played one dimensional didn't mix things up etc. The score flattered them which is a bit of a worry for England.

Not really, England won’t be playing them again in the next few weeks. ;)

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6 hours ago, Waynemarlow said:

.....a great number of people do actually live by other codes than the dollar. 

I have no pretensions that you will ever understand why 17.4 million voted to make their lives potentially poorer in dollar terms but were willing to offset that loss for a different way of life, which they perceived to be of a greater benefit than the loss of a few dollars....

 

54 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

But 17.4 million people in the UK, including you and the Government, can't say or don't know what that "different way of life" entails.

My apologies I actualy keep forgetting there is one person who knows of the things that Brexit is designed to bring. 

He says the UK is going to become the "largest and most prosperous" economy in the northern hemisphere. So Wayne this different way of life you speak of will incorporate a greater standard of living. However won't that muck up your code..your foraging for food is greater than the dollar thing??

BTW the fellow is called Boris Johnson writing in the Telegraph on June 3 last year. Unfortunately the Press Standards Association determined he was lying his guts out. More unfortunately that determination and the Telegraph's retraction took 6 months and too late. 

Anyway I'm sure you are relieved to hear he was speaking shit. That different way of life you speak of entailing a lower standard of living (but don't know what else it is supposed to or you want it to entail) is back on track.

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Anyway I think we can assume the vast majority of Leavers voted for more money unlike Wayne. Afterall that is why Boris's £350m/week red bus was such a hit.

The true net of that £350m/week is around £150 per year per person saved, however just lost tax revenue because of Brexit is something like 4 times that. In other words around £450 per person per year gone up in smoke and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Anyway back to the Red Bus and £150 pp/year net saved. This iceberg says by simply just being outside the EU Single Market the UK has lost around €2,000 per person per year. 

Pretty interesting number when the Johnson/Gove/Cummings Leave campaign (along with many current Ministers) in 2016 telling everyone the UK would remain in the EU Single Market.

So the Government are now embarking upon negotiations that involve around €2,000 either staying or not staying in every single persons pocket every year. Yet those people are none the wiser about this money staying in or being taken from their pocket by their own Government and then burnt (it doesn't exist).

That is some pick pocketing skill. Stealing from your own people and destroying the money, all to prop up "trade theory ego" that only the Government believes in, no-one else in the world.

ERXwjS9W4AEXOO7.jpeg

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4 hours ago, mad said:

The day trips to watch in France, Italy and Ireland could become a travel nightmare and the same for the fans travelling to the UK.......

 

4 hours ago, mad said:

Rugby is low key......but the football/soccer industry might have something to say about it.

I wonder if anybody thought of that? 

Traveling spectator issues least of the problems. Like some UK teams may not have enough players to field a team to spectate upon. :P

Strictly speaking how many overseas players would not be entitled to UK working visas to play in the UK under Patel's new rules, particularly those off-contract and with shit English??? Maybe that's why those rules appear to have already been binned. Trade OK but can't have Brexit associated with UK now getting belted in international sport. :D

The UK worker stats grouping of Culture Media & Sports contains around 10% EU citizens, but no idea how many non EU. Lots of football/soccer more than 10% internationals and many county cricket teams have the max allowed of 2 internationals or around 20%.

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^^^^^ PS. I looked it up.

Share of the playing squad taken by EU nationals at Wolverhampton Wanderers, Chelsea, Manchester City, Norwich City and Arsenal is greater than 50%. Then add non EU nationals (Others) most clubs close to 50% and many in excess of 75% foreign players.

Not very pretty. Betcha Patel doesn't follow football.

PS. Anslie's INEOS TEAM UK... just the sailing team comprises over half a dozen internationals, predominantly Australian and NZ.

http___com.ft.imagepublish.upp-prod-us.s3.amazonaws (4).png

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9 hours ago, mad said:

Was great game, and the final score doesn’t reflect the game really.  But a good afternoon out with a load of 6 nations fans, all wondering slightly what happens next year. 
 

The day trips to watch in France, Italy and Ireland could become a travel nightmare and the same for the fans travelling to the UK.......

 

Wouldn't be getting giddy at that one.

England destroyed Ireland upfront, turned them over at will and exposed their unchanged game plan with a 3 man rush defence. Yet England relied on Sexton errors for 9 of their 12 winning margin, failed to secure a bonus point while Ireland failed to convert another 2-3 penalties inside the England 22 into points.

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Auch, the Bow group (right wing think tank) is not happy that more non Eu citizens will be employed and with their culture of 4 children and stay home wife it is not as good as a Polish couple of who both are working. even when they have 2 children.  Fatal flaw in Brexit...

https://www.bowgroup.org/policy/review-proposed-immigration-bill-open-door-immigration-nothing-has-changed

The government is lowering the immigration wage threshold from £30,000 pa to £25,600 pa. There is no credibility in the argument someone on £25.6kpa with a spouse not working and four children in local education and in receipt of benefits will make a net positive contribution to the UK economy.

82% of new British citizens are either foreign born or born to a foreign parent, the reality of the immigration debate is not about economics, but culture and nationhood.

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40 minutes ago, LeoV said:

82% of new British citizens are either foreign born or born to a foreign parent, the reality of the immigration debate is not about economics, but culture and nationhood.

For something that has been at the centre of UK politics for 15 years and coming to a head 4 years ago, it is extraordinary there has been no proper debate. This is to the extent the wider public are ignorant to the UK having had a points based system for 12 years and being outside Schengen area (along with Ireland to capture no border control), being able to exercise greater border control. Government policy is threadbare of any proper assesment and direction other than picking net immigration numbers out of their arse.

It is little wonder it has evolved into what it is allowing extreme views to dominate unchallenged. No one even thinks twice that some sitting around the Cabinet Table, have parents who would be refused entry under the very regulations they are championing. 

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82% of new British citizens are either foreign born or born to a foreign parent, the reality of the immigration debate is not about economics, but culture and nationhood.

Read that as 82% of 'new' British children has a EU parent, Irish being a large part I reckon, or non EU.
Solution is simple, British can only reproduce with British. Kind of scary.

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Solution is simple, British can only reproduce with British. Kind of scary.

And no coincidence that the "rump" of the Tory vote and those most influnced by immigration vein of the Leave referendum campaign are those born prior to 1970, mid fifties and older. They have grown up seeing the demographics of their neighbourhoods and their employment prospects change more than any other, yearn for the bakalite years, but not too old to remember post war the UK was a basket case.

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That Bow stuff is been out for days, there are Tory MP's aligned with Bow. And UK is quiet about it. This is how nationalism gets its grip on a nation.

On the other hand this kind of talk will keep real Brexiteers unhappy, till the UK has a wall around it.

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ERimVPUX0AAIe1l?format=jpg&name=900x900

UK has left the EU politically for 3 weeks now. Not much to show yet but it is early.
On trade the outcome is still not known. But if you see that leaflet;

1; failed;
2/3; in progress, both are the same argument, yep take back control in the UK means now no ECJ, goodbye UK trade agreements with the EU on anything then basic trade.
4; failed.
 

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

...

Solution is simple, British can only reproduce with British. Kind of scary.

That would explain the teeth

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

82% of new ...citizens are either foreign born or born to a foreign parent, ...

In some countries a large share of the population find that idea terrifying and repulsive.

In other countries a large share of the population think that would be a delightful contribution to the richness and depth of the culture and sophistication of their country.

The reality of human kind is that even in the most welcoming of countries, some share of the population is frightened by the “other” and abhors them. So no country can be sanctimonious, but if you are lucky, it is a privilege and joy to live in a country that often sees “others” as an appreciated contribution to the social fabric.

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

Solution is simple, British can only reproduce with British. Kind of scary.

 

2 minutes ago, KC375 said:

That would explain the teeth

I don't think that is going to end well. This indicates the English gene pool is now bone dry.

images - 2020-01-04T122917.169.jpeg

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One day Truss might get it right. 

The UK hasn't an independent seat at the WTO yet. It has just moved its chair from the EU huddle in little rooms so it can now rub shoulders with the Ukraine for day to day bits and pieces.

In the big room that counts, it's allowed to sit beside the door, providing it doesn't make too much noise and interrupt the EU spokesperson.

 

 

EP6-OiAXkAAgufI (1).jpeg

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13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

I don't think that is going to end well. This indicates the English gene pool is now bone dry.

images - 2020-01-04T122917.169.jpeg

Gene pool getting thin across the social spectrum

 

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Ogh fuck it gets worse.  I think this drivel advocates rejoining the EU but I don't think that's the idea.

The bit about the removal of regulations improving the quality of imports indicates who ever wrote it was stoned and a drunk reviewed it. 

 

 

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Finally back from his break Boris never fails to impress. This time keeping his promise to "fuck business."

WTO and numerous treaties the UK can't avoid all remove sovereignty so what Johnson is chasing doesn't exist in the real world. Where he is heading is an economic impact having the same order of magnitude as the Global Financial Crisis according to Treasury.

UK to prioritise sovereignty over business demands in EU trade talks

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Laura K's back and gets her thumbs up wrong.

Viscountess Astor not exactly a cracker to remember. Anti Jewish and thought Hilter was on the money. She also was not the first woman elected to the Westminster. That was achieved by Sinn Feins Constance Markievicz, elected in 1918, but as she was an Irish Republican, she did not take her seat.

 

 

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Another report gets buried.

 

Quote

The police regulator says it has been tracking down witnesses across the world, as it seeks to explain why it has yet to decide whether to launch an investigation into Boris Johnson and his relationship with the US businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri.

Since late September the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) has been evaluating whether to investigate the prime minister for possible criminal misconduct over his friendship with Arcuri when he was mayor of London.

Its decision had initially been expected in November, until the Observer learned that an announcement would be delayed until after the general election in December, effectively protecting Johnson from potentially damaging headlines at a crucial stage of the campaign.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/23/johnson-arcuri-inquiry-anger-over-fresh-delays

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At long last those overlooked in Services trade outside the financial sector get a look in. Their current access to the EU market relies on mutual recognition of their qualifications. It is pretty big list when you start thinking about not just lawyers and architects but auditors, tax accountants and insolvency practitioners etc.

In fact the only close equivalent to EU membership providing this professional recognition anywhere else in the world is the Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Agreement between New Zealand and Australia.

Why lawyers and architects could be losers in UK-EU trade deal

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16 minutes ago, mad said:

Another report gets buried

Lost count how many. Must be double figures by now. The last the report I think indicating any FTA's with Asian countries will be fizzers.

You can only hope this Arcuri one might include some home movies.

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The prime minister highlighted that we are not seeking a special or bespoke agreement, but rather one like those the EU has already struck with other friendly countries like Canada.

People really need to read the full CETA text. Especially the Annexes as it is there that you see the details of what come under the trade facilitation and what doesn't.
It is in fact rather transparent that when Johnson says he want something like CETA that is not what he wants in practice. It must sound supperficially like CETA but in order to be useful for the UK it must give the UK access into the EU in ways CETA doesnt.

For example: should the EU really give the UK exactly what is in CETA no car produced in Britain except Rools Royces (only car made in Britain which has more than 50% "made in britain" content, barely, in it) could be exported to the EU (or any WTO country or in fact most FTA countries). Neither could most "British" manufactured goods (because in reality, outside of the EU rule of origin exception, Britain produces almost nothing which is compliant with minimal WTO rule of origin standards).

Now with Canada whose main market and main supply chain is with NAFTA/USMCA that is workable because CETA naturally excludes from exports toward the EU most of what Canada produces (and Canada doesn't care because most of what it want to export goes to the US not the EU while EU products will always tend to be more expensive than domestically produced ones). CETA is a beautiful study in immediate marginal opportunities on both sides with some leeway for progressive expansion while protecting each other's respective market through "natural" obstacles to undercutting. This is why there is no need for alignment with Canada (that and the fact that Canada is in fact excluded from so much of the more sensitive sectors).
But that wouldn't work out the same for a deal with the UK.
And remember that when the EU was talking about a Canada style agreement with the UK as a possible end point it was when the UK under Theresa May had accepted in principle the principles of no backsliding on standard. Something that Johnson ripped up when he came to power. The CETA type FTA that was possible under May's political declaration is not the same FTA that could be possible under Johnson's positions... and even if it was, there is a growing sense in the EU that the UK will not negociate in good faith even if it agrees to certain level of alignment so that even stronger enforcement mechanisms would be needed and that is turn is even less palatable for the current UK government and a large part of the public. In a way it comes down to something that is left unsaid for diplomatic reason: the EU trust more the Canadians, Koreans, Japanese not to abuse a more flexible set up than it trusts the UK to do so.

------------------------------

Best comment on Canada /CETA  I found. And Canada deal was bespoke for Canada as he name implies.

Never trust a Tory and make sure everything is in writing and open to change in a minute as the UK goes rogue.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Lost count how many. Must be double figures by now. The last the report I think indicating any FTA's with Asian countries will be fizzers.

You can only hope this Arcuri one might include some home movies.

I bloody hope not, that’s a home movie nobody needs to see!! 

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48 minutes ago, LeoV said:

.... In a way it comes down to something that is left unsaid for diplomatic reason: the EU trust more the Canadians, Koreans, Japanese not to abuse a more flexible set up than it trusts the UK to do so.

------------------------------

Best comment on Canada /CETA  I found. And Canada deal was bespoke for Canada as he name implies.

Never trust a Tory and make sure everything is in writing and open to change in a minute as the UK goes rogue.

I imagine team UK has a significant credibility issue in negotiating with the EU. Boris is on record that he won’t honour his recent written commitments with respect to Ireland. The EU would have to be brain dead to accept anything that required the UK to honour its commitments. It would be pointless to accept anything other than a credible third party arbitration mechanism backed up with thermonuclear devices for enforcement.

As traders I know used to say “the trend is your friend”...if you are dealing with a serial liar you should assume you are  being lied to. How do you carry on negotiations? It seems to me the EU negotiating effort must be purely for show so they don’t get bad PR for not “trying their best”.

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30 minutes ago, KC375 said:

As traders I know used to say “the trend is your friend”...if you are dealing with a serial liar you should assume you are  being lied to. How do you carry on negotiations? It seems to me the EU negotiating effort must be purely for show so they don’t get bad PR for not “trying their best”.

Just alienate the UK not to much. And let them eat crow.

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12 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Just alienate the UK not to much. And let them eat crow.

basically everybody is just going through the motions like some pantomime

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2 hours ago, KC375 said:

basically everybody is just going through the motions like some pantomime

Let me guess ....Johnson plays the Clown and Barnier is the Black Knight??

EU Negotiation mandate signed off. That fucks up Tory claim on Sunday it was delayed and they were at war with each other led by France going mental.

Johnson was releasing their negotiation response this week then Hogan said they weren't as it would reveal their hand. Now word is its released on Thursday plus US FTA position will be released on Monday.

I hope they have someone in Downing St keeping a list of their bullshit statements otherwise they will get things mixed up.

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3 hours ago, KC375 said:

I imagine team UK has a significant credibility issue in negotiating with the EU. 

ERG trombone player Duncan Smith has come out saying they aren't up to the task, saying EU having 4 decades experience and UK zero. Ha Ha. He says they should engage London professionals not Civil Servants. 

Iain Duncan-Smith says it's time for experts to handle Brexit as 'there are problems ahead'

That is all pretty funny as including Hogan (ex career civil servant) of the UK team of 40, the majority are guns for hire. However their experience is advisory not around the table eye balling.

I wish their meetings were televised. It would be better than Monty Python.

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And as more UK chafe....for meetings expect Johnson to come out insisting first meet is in London. EU will say Potsdam (Germany) as Churchill did in the last of the Big Three allies meetings end of World War II.

Johnson will reply with Aircraft Carrier anchored in middle of the Channel like in 1941 when Roosevelt and Churchill meet secretly before US joining war on board a Brtit naval vessel off Newfoundland.

Then someone will tell Johnson the UK doesn't have an Aircraft Carrier currently  in service.

 

images - 2020-02-25T082453.715.jpeg

images - 2020-02-25T082613.155.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

And as more UK chafe....for meetings expect Johnson to come out insisting first meet is in London. EU will say Potsdam (Germany) as Churchill did in the last of the Big Three allies meetings end of World War II.

Johnson will reply with Aircraft Carrier anchored in middle of the Channel like in 1941 when Roosevelt and Churchill meet secretly before US joining war on board a ship off Newfoundland.

Then someone will tell Johnson the UK doesn't have an Aircraft Carrier currently  in service.

 

images - 2020-02-25T082453.715.jpeg

images - 2020-02-25T082613.155.jpeg

Wow I thought the QE had been in service for years...turns out christening to operational...takes a while (like longer than many wars)

Queen Elizabeth was christened on 4 July 2014,[9] and floated-out on 17 July 2014.[104] On 26 June 2017, the new carrier left Rosyth for the first time to commence sea trials. Flight trials with helicopters began in July 2017 and F-35B flight trials are expected towards the end of 2018.[104] Initial operational capability is expected to be declared in 2020.[9]

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5 hours ago, LeoV said:

Best comment on Canada /CETA  I found. And Canada deal was bespoke for Canada as he name implies.

CETA is bespoke and Johnson claiming not as off the shelf/Barnier staircase shit was framed solely to give oxygen to these headlines for local consumption ie. Telegraph .. "The EU's new negotiating stance is laughably deceitful - If Brussels carries on with its  bizarre behaviour, Britain has no choice but to ditch talks."

EU will carry on unchanged (as EU mandate agreed last night will show) which now leaves Boris having painted himself into a corner. 

Surely there are only two outcomes. He rows back and looks both weak and stupid OR he has to walk and it's all over.

He managed to get away with domestic propoganda of Irish Sea border in the Deal as not a "row back" to EU's first position (until May/DUP/ERG changed it to Nth/Sth Backstop, then left her stranded) but brilliant Johnson negotiation. I can't see how he can repeat that with the EU public transparency policy.

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35 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Queen Elizabeth.... Initial operational capability is expected to be declared in 2020.[9]

There is always the "Victory" ...which is a good omen for where Johnson wants negotiations to lead. However to match reality and the UK going around in circles plus disguising a "row back"....they might need to find something else.

EROwYImWAAAiT87.jpeg.fc7b79f67cfe9a7a980617e5662e3b70.jpeg

images - 2020-02-25T090400.979.jpeg

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To understand this catastrofuck you have to keep punching yourself with these 3 reminders

1. The Johnson Government and Eurosceptics have only ever been interested in ripping up UK membership of the EU, but in ignorance thinking they can retain some key economic benefits. Anything that supports that is pushed to the front of their propaganda ie. a deceitful EU, immigration, leveraging fishing etc.

2. Whatever happens after 31 January  they have no clue and their only thoughts are that UK citizens must also remain clueless and or it doesn't concern them ie. kill off all sources of dissent  frank and fearfull advice like Whitehall, Treasury, rogue Ministers, HOC Special Committees, the BBC, Judiciary and Lords etc.

3. That leaves Government with the only measure of Brexit success being the EU imploding, preferably on account of their leaving. As that won't be happening, domestic spending, disguising Brexit border impacts by say breaching Irish Border Protocol etc, are all to buy time until the 2024 election.

Even the Cummings circus, the Boris gaffes, reports being quashed etc are all carefully crafted "frames" to disguise that a very nasty and selfish clown is running this show with some very powerful forces backing him. 

images - 2020-02-17T164257.674.jpeg

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While we wait Frost to release the UK's negotiation position maybe it helps to understand his thinking.

Like his article in the Telegraph from 30 June 2016  just after the referendum when he was not on the Government payroll, but still the CEO of the Scotch Whisky Association, his only experience of 3 years outside the Civil Service. Obviously his views would be consistent with such a significant export business. 

Yep.

Norway model for say 5 years while negotiating a Canada style FTA, keep Norway if that doesn't happen, maintain free movement of people with a proper immigration policy that will take time ...plus world trade investigations and (to develop global trade policy) should have started 3 1/2 years ago to have it ready in time.

Funny how the Telegraph and all Eurosceptics singing his praise now have forgotton about that.

IMG_20200225_103416.thumb.jpg.740495b9605ceccbe8663b30636fbddb.jpgIMG_20200225_103536.thumb.jpg.c876403a5efdee50b6ab2efb0eb35226.jpgIMG_20200225_103653.thumb.jpg.8c3c3cc184622cf19232fba78467fdcc.jpgIMG_20200225_103826.thumb.jpg.679b39891e7e30f908fb45c7dbcdbd70.jpg

Frost now on the Downing St payroll says last week that there will be trade offs aka "just in time" industries are fucked with a FTA involving border friction. Failing a FTA UK can operate quite well without a deal aka Australia.

He has now joined Boris's "Fuck Business Club." What a two faced cunt.

“There is obviously a one-off cost from the introduction of friction at a customs and regulatory border...simply not convinced it is on anything like the scale..studies suggest....the British Government is confident in the strategy it has chosen."

ERkLjjrWsAIfLTv.jpeg

 

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On 2/22/2020 at 1:28 AM, jack_sparrow said:

I wonder how long it took to focus group various trustworthy concepts to come up with this bit of PR shit about the budget  using this tosser.

 

 

Well the propganda machines fig leaves disguised as tea leaves to the north didn't go down well. 

By the way their tea leaves come from India, Sri Lanka, and Kenya. Kenya have Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA) with the EU involving tarriff and quota free imports. Sri Lanka a EU Generalised Scheme of Preferences Plus ( GSP+ ) and India have EU-India Strategic Partnership pending FTA negotiations that has been ongoing a long time.

Whilst relocating may be attractive I suspect they will stay in Yorkshire despite the anti Tory sentiment expressed below. The wonderful pictures of Yorkshire on their packaging would have to disappear.

 

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On 2/23/2020 at 10:35 PM, LeoV said:

Even their (UK) Taskforce Europe is briefing about EU being divided & in disarray with false claims. Budget as always yes there is division,  regarding Brexit not yet.

Divided on Brexit they are not.

E27 Reps signed off on Barnier's negotiation mandate late yesterday. It goes to 27 Ministers today for sign off then public release.

Here is some leaked text that shows in bold where the draft released last month has been amended.

After Johnson's shitfuckery they have put beyond doubt even, though it is the Political Declaration that Johnson signed, that the UK doesn't undercut the EU Single Market or level playing field.

The key phrase is the aim to keep "Union standards as a reference point".

It pays not for the monkey to poke the elephant.

Courtesy Naomi O’Leary from Irish Times so I suspect Irish leak in response to UK gaslighting no border checks GB to NI. 

ERkga60WsAMJFtJ.png

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Can the three of you left on here just meet in a pub and discuss this in private over a pint or seven?  Maybe have a scrap in the car park after if that helps you. This is the most pathetically boring thread in the whole of SA and should be left to wither like Trumps hands. 

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1 hour ago, sosoomii said:

.....This is the most pathetically boring thread in the whole of SA and should be left to wither like Trumps hands. 

Ha ha ...says someone who quotes George Orwell in the Laser thread....you are a perfect fit here. :D

The really funny thing is you have to scroll a long way down in SA active threads to those started over a decade ago to match the number (incl #1 shunted to PA) of posts and views here. :rolleyes:

My guess Marlow the SA sponsor is pretty happy, unlike you.

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10 hours ago, mad said:

I bloody hope not, that’s a home movie nobody needs to see!! 

Boris hanging from chandelier nude except for Union Jack socks and Arcuri below would rate its socks off....would probably break the worlds "giffy" making record.

Some moments however never make it to film. Martin McGiness said he stumbled across Tony Blair hugging a tree out the back at #10....which was weird..more weird was Gerry Adams hugging the other side.

Theresa unfortunately only bequeathed us this to remember her by.

 

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19 hours ago, LeoV said:

Auch, the Bow group (right wing think tank) is not happy that more non Eu citizens will be employed and with their culture of 4 children and stay home wife it is not as good as a Polish couple of who both are working. even when they have 2 children.  Fatal flaw in Brexit...

https://www.bowgroup.org/policy/review-proposed-immigration-bill-open-door-immigration-nothing-has-changed

The government is lowering the immigration wage threshold from £30,000 pa to £25,600 pa. There is no credibility in the argument someone on £25.6kpa with a spouse not working and four children in local education and in receipt of benefits will make a net positive contribution to the UK economy.

82% of new British citizens are either foreign born or born to a foreign parent, the reality of the immigration debate is not about economics, but culture and nationhood.

The leadership/patrons of Bow says it all;

Bill Cash, John Redmond, Lord Lamont, Anne Widdecombe etc and some token right wing 1st/2nd generation immigrants of colour as a smokescreen.

This quote...well it isn't "Little England" they are chasing...it's something even smaller... the Isle of Man or Guernsey.

"Better we import now, word for word, the labour laws of the Isle of Man and Channel Islands who have successfully grown their economies, protected their own British societies, and achieved a level of social cohesion that for many British cities can only dream of, or remember." 

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A float at the "Rose Monday" parade yesterday,  a famous national carnival, this one in Dusseldorf.

Boris's EU socks and kilt making a getaway. They also didn't miss "Facefuck."

Who said Germans didn't have a sense of humour.

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National Farmers Union Conference starts today in Birmingham.

Last year Gove as Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs was the guest speaker pledging there would "no" No Deal and they had nothing to worry about. He has avoided them like the plague ever since.

George Eustice the current Secretary opens at 9.00am tommorow. The words Regulations, Chicken, Chlorine, CAP, Border regulations/infrastructure, (particularly NI Delegates) and Agricultural Bill will the ones everyone will be listening to.

Bottom line is Number 10 has ceased to believe the threats of business and they don't believe and or ignore forecasts of Treasury and respected sector specific economists. Therefore how can this guy message his way out of that?? I have no idea...except lying then sprinting for the door.

NFU #20 - Conference Program

18df70d6-a879-44ad-a04a-d64dcd1b5bcb_800.jpg

ERjwOoGXsAEycMz.jpeg

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#10 must think no-one has heard them so they ask NI Secretary Turnip to keep yelling at the clouds.

'No border between NI and GB' - NI Secretary - seeking to evade any new checks on goods passing from Great Britain to Northern Ireland

So EU and UK/EU Business waiting on UK to get real? 

OR

EU - Who wants to wait any longer for people who sign an International Treaty..... then 4 weeks later denies the contents; and you know they have no clue/don't care about the consequences that flow from such behaviour? 

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What really jumps out now the negotiations are about to begin is just how fervently Brexiteer-y the all-important XS committee looks. The departure of Sajid Javid as chancellor means every single member of this critical decision-making group — Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Rishi Sunak, Dominic Raab and Suella Braverman — was a Vote Leave campaigner in 2016. The replacement of Attorney General Geoffrey Cox with Braverman, a former ERG chairwoman, brings an even more hardline feel to the room. And with senior No. 10 aides Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain also central to proceedings, this really is the Vote Leave government writ large. There will be no dissenting voices as Britain’s strategy is agreed.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/821544/Committee_lists_for_GOV.UKv2.pdf
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Those 7 people will decide the future of the UK. Nobody else. Only Gove is not a lightweight, but he is not more then mediocre. And wlll he stand up against Cummings most outlandish wishes.... I doubt it.
Good luck for the UK.
If the other committees can not ram in some common sense it will be no trade deal to speak off.

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13 hours ago, KC375 said:

The EU would have to be brain dead to accept anything that required the UK to honour its commitments. It would be pointless to accept anything other than a credible third party arbitration mechanism backed up with thermonuclear devices for enforcement.

KC don't forget both parties have already signed up to 3rd Party Arbitration where ECJ only buy into interpretation of EU law. The Johnson narrative and supported by some in UK MSM is it is the ECJ doing the arbitrating. They aren't and EU position reflects that.

The thermonuclear enforcement for EU would at best be retaliatory tarriff and non tarriffs barriers aka Trump if UK ignored arbitration determinations without EU being in breach would be my reading.

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

What really jumps out now the negotiations are about to begin is just how fervently Brexiteer-y the all-important XS committee looks. The departure of Sajid Javid as chancellor means every single member of this critical decision-making group — Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Rishi Sunak, Dominic Raab and Suella Braverman — was a Vote Leave campaigner in 2016. The replacement of Attorney General Geoffrey Cox with Braverman, a former ERG chairwoman, brings an even more hardline feel to the room. And with senior No. 10 aides Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain also central to proceedings, this really is the Vote Leave government writ large. There will be no dissenting voices as Britain’s strategy is agreed.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/821544/Committee_lists_for_GOV.UKv2.pdf
--------------------------
Those 7 people will decide the future of the UK. Nobody else. Only Gove is not a lightweight, but he is not more then mediocre. And wlll he stand up against Cummings most outlandish wishes.... I doubt it.
Good luck for the UK.
If the other committees can not ram in some common sense it will be no trade deal to speak off.

The Seven Horseman of the Apocalpse - (4 existing + 3 new ) = 7  New NI Sec, AG , Chancellor the new 3 Horseman

As XS Committee of 7 member Braverman is the one most to worry about and a very nasty piece of work. I couldn't find post I made that as a Barrister she represented Home Office in immigration cases. Her voting record in HOC apposing anything human rights is eye watering.

She is now central to Government trying to dismantle Irish Protocol to match their no checks narrative, particularly those GB to NI. She is also front centre for dismantling the power of the Judiciary.

This view of her standing is underpinned  by her taking Cox's job.

You might remember whose job it was to introduce Johnson at party hustings to secure party endorsement as PM last year. It was Cox.

On 2/16/2020 at 11:10 AM, jack_sparrow said:

So we have that for the new Chancellor and now this for the new AG.

Suella Braverman the new Attorney General is a member of a  religious sect which continues to venerate its founder despite well-documented claims that he was a serial sexual predator.

Looks like Cummings didn't vet the CV's of his new tea boy and girl very well.

The Observer saying a role for Andrew next?

Attorney general Suella Braverman belongs to controversial Buddhist sect

 

On 2/23/2020 at 9:37 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Now making it official by putting it in The Times

 

Interesting to remember Geoffrey Cox the previous AG  refused to rule on Johnson's no Irish border checks ....enter Cummings new AG and tea girl, Suella Braverman who is as right wing as they get get.

This McDonagh is former Irish Ambassador to the EU, UK and Italy.

Note. Amazing how many people can't read. McDonagh has said nothing about Brexit outcomes breaching or otherwise the Good Friday Agreement. He is simply stating if the UK are in breach of the Withdrawal Agreement the US will act using GFA prervation as their excuse (noting that breach is referred to the European Court of Justice and outside the UK/Belfast High Courts jurisdiction). 

 

 

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

If the other committees can not ram in some common sense it will be no trade deal to speak off

Leo what are these committees you speak of?? There is no HOC Special Brexit related Committees anymore??

Boris blew them up and refuses to attend HOC oversight Committee (Commitee overseeing all Committees) since becoming PM. They sit on average 3 times a year.

Closest is Lords Committee taking good evidence from witnesses this time last week over NI/Ireland Protocol in the Deal. That evidence will not go beyond the Westminister library to gather dust. I posted this Link upthread. I guarantee no Tory MP has read it. 

The totalitarian state has arrived and no-one knows it.

 

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4 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

National Farmers Union Conference starts today in Birmingham.

Last year Gove as Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs was the guest speaker pledging there would "no" No Deal and they had nothing to worry about. He has avoided them like the plague ever since.

George Eustice the current Secretary opens at 9.00am tommorow. The words Regulations, Chicken, Chlorine, CAP, Border regulations/infrastructure, (particularly NI Delegates) and Agricultural Bill will the ones everyone will be listening to.

Bottom line is Number 10 has ceased to believe the threats of business and they don't believe and or ignore forecasts of Treasury and respected sector specific economists. Therefore how can this guy message his way out of that?? I have no idea...except lying then sprinting for the door.

NFU #20 - Conference Program

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Forgive me the indulgence of quoting myself. I just checked HOC Committee schedule and saw this cracker for today.

Agricultural Bill Committee sit twice today and televised House of Commons TV

Therefore Downing St with George Eustice the current Secretary the opening speaker at the NFU Conference at 9.00am tomorrow, they will be going ape shit. By design, a mistake???

The pliant MSM at #10's insistence will be putting chlorinated chicken on the FP's today. I guarantee.

It will be a chicken smokescreen guaranteed to try and help poor George out tomorrow fronting up to the NFU Conference. That or he calls in sick.

That is fuckin funny.

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^^^^ I was wrong... the EU seems to have taken the jump first putting Downing St on the back foot over Chicken. Both FP's and fresh EU negotiation mandate having a specific chicken section.

Therefore George Eustice will have to fold tomorrow at NFU Conference.

Importing foodstuffs into the UK that are illegal for UK producers to produce has always been nonsence. A fact of life is that of the UK's food and drink exports, including packaged food, it exports around 70% to the EU.

Chicken aka UK food standards (and by extension US FTA prospects) the first public row back.

Fish and the UK 200 mile Exclusive Economic  Zone, not being that UK exclusive will be the next row back.

 

 

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Now it's over to Team Johnson.

The EU's roadmap for the negotiations with the UK. Prepare for the Johnson Government outrage at the restatement of EU positions that have been known for years.

EU-UK relations: Council gives go-ahead for talks to start and adopts negotiating directives

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Apperently UK version discussed today, and will be published on Thursday.

Boris now one step closer to having to either own his shitfuckery OR walk away.

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You can't make this shit up. Andrew Neil has now gone full noise Brexit mental and made himself a self anointed #10 spokesperson.