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Could the Dems gift Donnie a second term?

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This from an NZ commentator Mike Hosking who  leans right but has some pretty pragmatic insights.

I’ll leave it right here.

Can you believe it - a year today until the presidential election in the United States.

And is it not a remarkable thing, that as the Democrats move forward at pace with their impeachment process, and they do so with a growing theme, if not chorus, that Donald Trump looks more and more likely to win a second term?

Remarkable, given for the better part of his first term Trump was a joke, Trump was the mistake that wouldn't be made again.

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As he enacted his policy and ideas, as he tweeted up a storm, as he sacked and hired, and hired and sacked, the assumption was this nightmare was at least to be ended come November 2020.

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Then came things like the economy. Now whether its stellar run was directly reflective of him, you can argue over all you want. But what history shows is good economies lead to good support for whoever is in power.

There has been North Korea, his stance on China (which appeals to his base), his isolationist view on trade generally, and once again appeals to his base.

He told off Nato for not doing their bit. He told off just about everyone for not doing their bit and leaving it all to America. He went to the United Nations and said it was America first, globalism was dead, and patriots were the future.

And all of that, like it or not, was classic Trump. And all this time his numbers, broadly speaking, haven't changed. A lot of people don't like him. Some do, and the ones that do, if they're sprinkled in the right places, may be enough to get him back for another four years.

But then came two critical mistakes from the Democrats, one which is under way, and the second has yet to materialise.

First, of course, is the impeachment. They can't impeach him. You need 66 votes in a 100-vote Senate. The Senate is controlled by the Republicans, so they cannot get 66 votes. The Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, can plead that it's about democracy or doing the right thing all she wants - but it won't work and it won't win her an election.

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Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren's polices are not attuned to the majority of American thinking. Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren's polices are not attuned to the majority of American thinking.

The second, of course, is what looks like the increasing likelihood that Elizabeth Warren will be the Democratic presidential nominee. That's a mistake of the sort of magnitude that will be studied for decades.

Having promised never to repeat the Hillary Clinton thing, they look like they'll repeat the Hillary Clinton thing. Warren isn't remotely electable. Her polices are not attuned to the majority of American thinking.

Americans don't trust government and she wants massive government. Americans are self-starters and she wants to tax them out of existence.

She appeals to a small collective of the left woke. She may, in tiny numbers, appeal to the "anyone but Trump crowd," but what she isn't is a pathway to a Democratic Presidency.

Say anything you want about Trump. Hate him all you like, ridicule him, insult him, obsess about him, but as we sit here, if the Democrat answer is Warren, I'll take any bet you want that says Trump is a two-term President.

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Yeah, Jeff was running this kind of nonsense before, that Democrats elected Shitstain by nominating Hillary. I rate it four yawns:

Yawn. Yawn. Yawn. Yawn.

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13 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

Say anything you want about Trump. Hate him all you like, ridicule him, insult him, obsess about him, but as we sit here, if the Democrat answer is Warren, I'll take any bet you want that says Trump is a two-term President.

I'll take that bet as well.  I actually like Liz, and I don't completely disagree with some of her policies.  But neither she or Bernie will get elected.  She's a "bridge too far" for too many.  The day she announced her $20T MFA plan was the day she lost the General election if not the Nomination.  Again, I'm not against MFA - but there are enough people who will be extremely uncomfortable with it.**  Most Dems in the know say she couldn't even get that passed in a D controlled Congress much less a split congress.  

 

**  The standard disclaimer applies for mj and his elk who won't bother to actually read what I posted above and will instead ascribe their own views and biases of what they *think* I believe in and support.  

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I'll take that bet as well.  I actually like Liz, and I don't completely disagree with some of her policies.  But neither she or Bernie will get elected.  She's a "bridge too far" for too many.  The day she announced her $20T MFA plan was the day she lost the General election if not the Nomination.  Again, I'm not against MFA - but there are enough people who will be extremely uncomfortable with it.**  Most Dems in the know say she couldn't even get that passed in a D controlled Congress much less a split congress.  

 

**  The standard disclaimer applies for mj and his elk who won't bother to actually read what I posted above and will instead ascribe their own views and biases of what they *think* I believe in and support.  

It's a close thing, the divisions are so locked in that I'm not completely sure it matters who runs against T.  Charlie Cook was writing that the relationship between consumer confidence and job approval broke under O and did not resume under T. Just like nobody really believes anything T says (his supporters just like how he makes them feel), nobody really thinks B or S (?) could really get their plans over the line. But they're not T. I think it's going to come down to demographics, shift of population to the cities, death of boomers, rise of younger and non-white voters, movement of women away from R's v the locked in 30-40% of the electorate, outside interference (does anybody believe foreign actors WON'T be involved in the election?), possible use of the DOJ to provide "October surprises" and electoral college skew will provide a nail-biter. 

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1 hour ago, learningJ24 said:

It's a close thing, the divisions are so locked in that I'm not completely sure it matters who runs against T.  

Just remember - the only thing that matters in a place that only gets a fraction of its voters to the polls is turnout, which depends on who's been getting screwed over the worst.

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1 hour ago, learningJ24 said:

It's a close thing, the divisions are so locked in that I'm not completely sure it matters who runs against T.  Charlie Cook was writing that the relationship between consumer confidence and job approval broke under O and did not resume under T. Just like nobody really believes anything T says (his supporters just like how he makes them feel), nobody really thinks B or S (?) could really get their plans over the line. But they're not T. I think it's going to come down to demographics, shift of population to the cities, death of boomers, rise of younger and non-white voters, movement of women away from R's v the locked in 30-40% of the electorate, outside interference (does anybody believe foreign actors WON'T be involved in the election?), possible use of the DOJ to provide "October surprises" and electoral college skew will provide a nail-biter. 

 

Good points. I see it as likely that Trump will win reelection, for several reasons.

First, a few certainties- Trump's support is not growing. It's not shrinking either, but his 40% base is widely enough distributed to win the Electoral College, and they ARE going to the polls. The people most negatively affected by Trumpublican policies, the under-30 voters and the hourly wage workers, are unlikely to flock to the polls... but they might, which is why Russian interference and vote suppression remain priorities for the Trumpublican Party. Red states are getting redder. The ability of the rich to buy influence is not being countered by any political interest.

Lastly, the Democratic Party is a herd of cats. The right-wing hate-spew seems to think the THE VAST LIBBY-RULL CONSPIRACY is controlled by an evil pulsating brain in a jar somewhere, with mad scientists capering and big glowing electrodes in the background. But the fact is that they are very disorganized and in a state of disagreement, which is part of why the monolithic former-Republican Party has managed to grab such an outsize grip on power.

I don't see the Democratic Party changing much in the next 11 months, no matter who rises to the top. Also I predict that whoever rises to the top, they will not be much interested or motivated put money and effort into by-elections and down-ticket elections (just like the last 3 Democrat Presidents). There is no Democratic equivalent to Fox News & RushEtc, nor a liberal equivalent to the Federalist Society. In the face of 40% of the voters backing a right-wing authoritarian take-over of the US, which is already pretty well complete and entrenched, the rest of us don't stand a chance.

- DSK

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4 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

*  The standard disclaimer applies for mj and his elk who won't bother to actually read what I posted above and will instead ascribe their own views and biases of what they *think* I believe in and support.  

You have a dumbfuck to english dictionary old man? I read what you write. And you type all kinds of shit that, in english, means something different than you like to claim. Like when someone starts a sentence with "I'm not a racist" it almost always means they are going to spew racist shit. And that disclaimer doesn't make the latter stuff less racist or repugnant  Just like you constantly saying "I actually like some Dem" and constantly shitting on them doesn't convince anyone - expect your fellow pretend independepanty elk in the geezer brigade - that you actually have any intention of ever supporting one. 

Now, I live in the US full time, I'm not reading shit about it online from half a world away then playing tourist here. I attend local political events occasionally. You know what the #1 question I've observed in is? Healthcare. And the audience - almost entirely middle class in suburban swing district - doesn't seem nearly as fearful of Medicare for all, or single payer, as the online circlejerk of rightwingers do.

But that'll never, never, never fucking penetrate in PA. Because y'all know the fucking answers already and the answers are your biases.

Now I don't think Elizabeth Warren is a shoe in. I do think there are problems with her campaign. But, and here's the but, so far most of the Republican responses to her play into her hands. Talking about the financial transaction tax as something that will really hurt "the middle class"? What fucking planet are they on? Nobody except fringe day traders & the rich are trading individual stocks anymore this isn't the 1950s.  Mentioning big scary government spending? Deficit is running a trillion a year now. We need to spend billions on a stupid fucking wall. Y'all are fucking fine with the spending. Calling her a boring, bitchy wonk that scolds people? Maybe that's what we fucking need.

Now toddle off and watch conspiracy videos on youtube with your "reasonable" "mainstream" buddys like @chum dumpster.

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8 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Good points. I see it as likely that Trump will win reelection, for several reasons.

First, a few certainties- Trump's support is not growing. It's not shrinking either, but his 40% base is widely enough distributed to win the Electoral College, and they ARE going to the polls. The people most negatively affected by Trumpublican policies, the under-30 voters and the hourly wage workers, are unlikely to flock to the polls... but they might, which is why Russian interference and vote suppression remain priorities for the Trumpublican Party. Red states are getting redder. The ability of the rich to buy influence is not being countered by any political interest.

Lastly, the Democratic Party is a herd of cats. The right-wing hate-spew seems to think the THE VAST LIBBY-RULL CONSPIRACY is controlled by an evil pulsating brain in a jar somewhere, with mad scientists capering and big glowing electrodes in the background. But the fact is that they are very disorganized and in a state of disagreement, which is part of why the monolithic former-Republican Party has managed to grab such an outsize grip on power.

I don't see the Democratic Party changing much in the next 11 months, no matter who rises to the top. Also I predict that whoever rises to the top, they will not be much interested or motivated put money and effort into by-elections and down-ticket elections (just like the last 3 Democrat Presidents). There is no Democratic equivalent to Fox News & RushEtc, nor a liberal equivalent to the Federalist Society. In the face of 40% of the voters backing a right-wing authoritarian take-over of the US, which is already pretty well complete and entrenched, the rest of us don't stand a chance.

- DSK

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.  :lol:

I'm actually very saddened by this but I think you are correct.  If TOSS** does win another 4 years, it does not bode well for either the D party or the rest of the country.  

And don't take this the wrong way, despite your preconceived biases to the contrary, but I don't HATE HATE HATE libby-ruules.  However, if ya'll DO lose again maybe you'll listen to me finally and admit that maybe its YOUR message that is not resonating with the electorate.  If TOSS does win again, it will be two cycles in a row where the candidate who could fog a mirror should have won against The Donald, but didn't.  At that point, you have to start admitting your party's message may be lacking across a broad enough spectrum.  That maybe you DO indeed need to address immigration reform, globalism, race relations (beyond just white guilt shaming), stop labeling fellow Americans as deplorables, etc.  

I know youse guys laugh at me for blaming the D's for the rise of DT, but at some point you gotta admit that you all at least have some culpability in creating and sustaining this monster.  Case in point.... you have been handed a gift horse in the ability to potentially get rid of TOSS and even that the D's are fucking up by the numbers.  I said a while back ya'll should've impeached over the Mueller report.  But Nance sat on it wringing her hands furiously.  Now when you do finally get around to impeachifying the shitstain, you limit it to the narrowest of narrow shit that is not going to resonate with the US people.  There's going to be a collective and loud "Meh" from the heartlands.  Even Joe Biden agrees with me that the impeachment inquiry should include the kitchen sink and the sooner the betterer.  But no, Nancy is going to be remembered only as the SOTH who handed the preznitzy back to TOSS.  I swear you guys could fuck up a wet dream.  

 

 

**TOSS = The Orange Shit Stain.

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10 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And don't take this the wrong way, despite your preconceived biases to the contrary, but I don't HATE HATE HATE libby-ruules.  However, if ya'll DO lose again maybe you'll listen to me finally and admit that maybe its YOUR message that is not resonating with the electorate

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

The day after elections which show the problems with Shitstains message a result thats a repeat of 2018 and 2017, Jeffreaux springs this wish fulfillment bullshit.

Maybe the Republican party should wake the fuck up instead of sucking Donnies dick

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32 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just remember - the only thing that matters in a place that only gets a fraction of its voters to the polls is turnout, which depends on who's been getting screwed over the worst.

And for the Presidential election it's only a dozen or so swing states that really matter.

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32 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

The day after elections which show the problems with Shitstains message a result thats a repeat of 2018 and 2017, Jeffreaux springs this wish fulfillment bullshit.

Maybe the Republican party should wake the fuck up instead of sucking Donnies dick

Feel free to take the bet then.  A hundy$ says that if warren is the nominee - shitstain wins the General.  Put your money where your piehole is.  

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9 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Feel free to take the bet then.  A hundy$ says that if warren is the nominee - shitstain wins the General.  Put your money where your piehole is.  

If you are going to bust my balls for not reading, maybe you should fucking read my posts?

1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Now I don't think Elizabeth Warren is a shoe in. I do think there are problems with her campaign.

The elections a little under a year away. That's a lot of time.

 

There's no bias in arguing "the Dems were arrogant to run such a hated an unelectable candidate" and then arguing a hated candidate like Trump is a shoein.

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18 hours ago, Navig8tor said:

This from an NZ commentator Mike Hosking who  leans right but has some pretty pragmatic insights.

I’ll leave it right here.

Can you believe it - a year today until the presidential election in the United States.

And is it not a remarkable thing, that as the Democrats move forward at pace with their impeachment process, and they do so with a growing theme, if not chorus, that Donald Trump looks more and more likely to win a second term?

Remarkable, given for the better part of his first term Trump was a joke, Trump was the mistake that wouldn't be made again.

ADVERTISEMENT
 

As he enacted his policy and ideas, as he tweeted up a storm, as he sacked and hired, and hired and sacked, the assumption was this nightmare was at least to be ended come November 2020.

READ MORE:
 Kim Jong-un 'fascinated' by Donald Trump and views him as a father figure: new book
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 'A national disgrace': Donald Trump makes his biggest mistake yet
 President Donald Trump returns to the campaign trail as another poll shows support for his ouster is growing

Then came things like the economy. Now whether its stellar run was directly reflective of him, you can argue over all you want. But what history shows is good economies lead to good support for whoever is in power.

There has been North Korea, his stance on China (which appeals to his base), his isolationist view on trade generally, and once again appeals to his base.

He told off Nato for not doing their bit. He told off just about everyone for not doing their bit and leaving it all to America. He went to the United Nations and said it was America first, globalism was dead, and patriots were the future.

And all of that, like it or not, was classic Trump. And all this time his numbers, broadly speaking, haven't changed. A lot of people don't like him. Some do, and the ones that do, if they're sprinkled in the right places, may be enough to get him back for another four years.

But then came two critical mistakes from the Democrats, one which is under way, and the second has yet to materialise.

First, of course, is the impeachment. They can't impeach him. You need 66 votes in a 100-vote Senate. The Senate is controlled by the Republicans, so they cannot get 66 votes. The Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, can plead that it's about democracy or doing the right thing all she wants - but it won't work and it won't win her an election.

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Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren's polices are not attuned to the majority of American thinking. Democratic presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren's polices are not attuned to the majority of American thinking.

The second, of course, is what looks like the increasing likelihood that Elizabeth Warren will be the Democratic presidential nominee. That's a mistake of the sort of magnitude that will be studied for decades.

Having promised never to repeat the Hillary Clinton thing, they look like they'll repeat the Hillary Clinton thing. Warren isn't remotely electable. Her polices are not attuned to the majority of American thinking.

Americans don't trust government and she wants massive government. Americans are self-starters and she wants to tax them out of existence.

She appeals to a small collective of the left woke. She may, in tiny numbers, appeal to the "anyone but Trump crowd," but what she isn't is a pathway to a Democratic Presidency.

Say anything you want about Trump. Hate him all you like, ridicule him, insult him, obsess about him, but as we sit here, if the Democrat answer is Warren, I'll take any bet you want that says Trump is a two-term President.

Never underestimate the Democrats ability to fuck up an election against a weak opponent. 

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“If you guys impeach me everybody will be so pissed off they will re-elect me.”

What a brilliant deflection.

 Let’s not look at whether the Gropenfuhrer is committing felonies, treason, and generally abusing the office. 
 

because

FAUX News And the blind faithful say we shouldn’t be looking at God’s choices. 
 

on your knees Christians!! Recite Psalm 109. Your God  put it in the  Bible just for the Gropenfuhrer

 

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very shallow analysis in the OP - He "enacted his policies and ideas"? wtf ? 

in fact, he broke every one of his populist economist promises - such as health ins for all 

and he has relentlessly attacked the working class on the job - from tips to overtime to retirement to . . . 

and he has shafted a million college loan borrowers

all the dems need do is point that out  

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

RHowever, if ya'll DO lose again maybe you'll listen to me finally and admit that maybe its YOUR message that is not resonating with the electorate.  If TOSS does win again, it will be two cycles in a row where the candidate who could fog a mirror should have won against The Donald, but didn't.  At that point, you have to start admitting your party's message may be lacking across a broad enough spectrum.  That maybe you DO indeed need to address immigration reform, globalism, race relations (beyond just white guilt shaming), stop labeling fellow Americans as deplorables, etc.  

I know youse guys laugh at me for blaming the D's for the rise of DT, but at some point you gotta admit that you all at least have some culpability in creating and sustaining this monster.  Case in point.... you have been handed a gift horse in the ability to potentially get rid of TOSS and even that the D's are fucking up by the numbers.  I said a while back ya'll should've impeached over the Mueller report.  But Nance sat on it wringing her hands furiously.  Now when you do finally get around to impeachifying the shitstain, you limit it to the narrowest of narrow shit that is not going to resonate with the US people.  There's going to be a collective and loud "Meh" from the heartlands.  Even Joe Biden agrees with me that the impeachment inquiry should include the kitchen sink and the sooner the betterer.  But no, Nancy is going to be remembered only as the SOTH who handed the preznitzy back to TOSS.  I swear you guys could fuck up a wet dream.  

 

 

**TOSS = The Orange Shit Stain.

The error in this analysis is that R presidents have not won the popular vote for election (not reelection) since HW, that would indicate a message that DOES reflect the desires of the majority.  The other error is that were the D's to move to the middle (which is far to the right of middle under Clinton or even Bush II) to possible pick up the 5% of the undecided, if not actually moderate, how many on the left do they lose? While the data isn't shared, I'm pretty confident that the data guys behind the candidates can quantify potential gains and loses. There's no real evidence that a 'moderate middle" exists but there's plenty of evidence of a chasm between the two positions. 

If you want to blame D's for T, you have to go back to Johnson and civil rights as the beginning of that trend. 

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Jeffreaux wants to be able to channel & support the southern white christian conservative grievance politics that gave us Trump without accepting Trump being his beliefs fault. Hence his continued need to blame the Democrats and Hillary.

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End of the day, if Trump's re-elected, it will be the responsibility of the people who vote for him.

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When I want insight into US politics I always turn to someone half a world away living in country with the population of the metro area where I live. 

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I still say if Biden or Mayor Pete win the nomination, that Trump has just about zero shot at reelection. If Warren is the nominee, it gets a little dicey, but I think it still tips in her favor. Which is why I would like to see Biden or Mayor Pete win the nomination, and will be voting that way in the primary. Whichever of the two is further ahead by the time we get to PAs primary, that is who I will vote for. 

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17 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

When I want insight into US politics I always turn to someone half a world away living in country with the population of the metro area where I live. 

The sarcasm is noted.

Perhaps it’s because they are standing far enough away to clearly see the weaknesses and bullshit that half the US apparently does not.

Sometimes not having skin in the game means refreshing perspectives.

Think at the end of the day most people outside the US simply cannot believe the voting public have been so conned by an obvious shyster, it becomes something like watching a train wreck you cannot look away.

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2 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

The sarcasm is noted.

Perhaps it’s because they are standing far enough away to clearly see the weaknesses and bullshit that half the US apparently does not.

Sometimes not having skin in the game means refreshing perspectives.

Think at the end of the day most people outside the US simply cannot believe the voting public have been so conned by an obvious shyster, it becomes something like watching a train wreck you cannot look away.

Which would indicate that they don't understand the forces that allowed T into the White house. The election of Reagan was the precursor to the election of Trump.

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Dems thinking they still have a shot with a classic old white man benevolent sexist like Biden or Fauxcahontas Hilary 2.0 is simply the latest glaring example of how separated the DNC is from their principles and what useful idiots their supporters are.

The discussion is moot, Hilary is orchestrating a quiet comeback and will eventually be the nominee to heroically unite the party..  It only took the DNC convention to get her into Wisconsin, I mean surely she can carry the state THIS time.  :lol:

cover100119.jpg

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1 minute ago, Navig8tor said:

Think at the end of the day most people outside the US simply cannot believe the voting public have been so conned by an obvious shyster, it becomes something like watching a train wreck you cannot look away.

the contrary to that is living in the US you can easily see how they conned themselves and why they won't change their views.

take Hillary. or AOC. in the US if you deal with a certain group (largely males over 40 who lean right) you see they are both totemic symbols of hatred these people fetishize. outside of that group? not nearly so many people care. I see more anti-Hillary bumperstickers and liberal hating bumperstickers than I do anything else political. These guys hate, it's what they do. online you might think either of them have a huge audience if you don't look closely and realize - it's just those bitter old bigoted dudes feeding their hate

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5 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

If you are going to bust my balls for not reading, maybe you should fucking read my posts?

The elections a little under a year away. That's a lot of time.

 

There's no bias in arguing "the Dems were arrogant to run such a hated an unelectable candidate" and then arguing a hated candidate like Trump is a shoein.

I never said Lizzy was hated. I said IF she gets the nom, she will be unelectable because of her policies. When/if she gets the Nomination, feel free to take me up on the bet. But yet again, RIF. 

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8 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I never said Lizzy was hated. I said IF she gets the nom, she will be unelectable because of her policies.

:lol:  yeah, Trumps shown it's policy that wins elections :lol:

the people hating her "policy" and you handicaping based on that "policy" is because of what you feel about the policy, not the policy. Y'all are fucking fine with socialism when it's a 'pube handing out billions to the farm belt.

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9 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

:lol:  yeah, Trumps shown it's policy that wins elections :lol:

the people hating her "policy" and you handicaping based on that "policy" is because of what you feel about the policy, not the policy. Y'all are fucking fine with socialism when it's a 'pube handing out billions to the farm belt.

IMAGINE!  I was not even aware trump has any actual policies to compare. 
 

Anywho, if when Lizzy wins the D nom - are you going to take me up on the bet?

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20 minutes ago, learningJ24 said:

Which would indicate that they don't understand the forces that allowed T into the White house. The election of Reagan was the precursor to the election of Trump.

Don’t forget the re-election of W.

No I think most outside the US understand the forces we just can’t understand the level of gullible exhibited by the average merican .

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25 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

IMAGINE!  I was not even aware trump has any actual policies to compare. 

My point exactly.

Ask me in 3 months or 6 months. if the economy tanks or trump encounters some crisis and inevitably fucks it up the chance of any Dem goes up, substantially, imo. If things continue on as they have mostly the Warren/Sanders have a tougher path.

FWIW - I'm not sure Obama would have been President with out the economy shitting the bid during the course of the campaign. Because it hurt the Republicans generally, it made McCain look bad and Sarah worse, and Obama spoke reasonably well about it.

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36 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Don’t forget the re-election of W.

No I think most outside the US understand the forces we just can’t understand the level of gullible exhibited by the average merican .

 we just can’t understand the level of gullible exhibited by the average American .”

And for that reason, apart from all others, Don the Con will win a 2nd term.  As Dean Wormer said: “drunk, fat and stupid is no way to go through life.”

I wonder who gets to turn off the lights in Reagan’s Shining City on a Hill.

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That's the point I'm trying to make, most American voters are NOT gullible; they're voting on issues that in a lot of cases are not expressed overtly but are understood all the same. Trump did NOT fool, trick or mislead those that voted for him, he's doing what they want him to, hence the support.  The trick is parsing the message from the words. 

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18 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

I'd say sometimes the underlying issue is expressly denied.

Or avoided by the right wing “entertainers” constantly calling look over here, while Rome gets plundered. 

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16 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

very shallow analysis in the OP -

Standard issue for the plonker that did the ‘analysis’. He would be a shoe in for a spot as ‘shallow talking head’ on Fox. Needs a strong stomach to listen to him bloviate on tv. 

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44 minutes ago, Navig8tor said:

Or avoided by the right wing “entertainers” constantly calling look over here, while Rome gets plundered. 

I was thinking about racism & sexism being ones that are pretty loudly and roundly denied and one where rightwing entertainers love to trade in the tropes of. 

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Was digging around for another topic and found a speech that outlines some of the issues. The language we're hearing sounds familiar and do those numbers ring any bells?

"Thirty-four percent of the Wisconsin Democrats supported the beliefs you and I uphold and expound.

Thirty percent of the Democrats in Indiana join us in fighting this grab for executive power by those now in control in Washington.

forty-three percent of the Democrats in Maryland, practically in view of the nation's capital, believe as you and I believe."

Speech by George C. Wallace The Civil Rights Movement fraud, sham and hoax 1964

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/documents/1951-/speech-by-george-c-wallace-the-civil-rights-movement-fraud-sham-and-hoax-1964-.php

 

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17 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
18 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

IMAGINE!  I was not even aware trump has any actual policies to compare. 

My point exactly.

Ask me in 3 months or 6 months. if the economy tanks or trump encounters some crisis and inevitably fucks it up the chance of any Dem goes up, substantially, imo. If things continue on as they have mostly the Warren/Sanders have a tougher path.

FWIW - I'm not sure Obama would have been President with out the economy shitting the bid during the course of the campaign. Because it hurt the Republicans generally, it made McCain look bad and Sarah worse, and Obama spoke reasonably well about it.

See!  We’re not as far apart as you think.  

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19 hours ago, learningJ24 said:

 Trump did NOT fool, trick or mislead those that voted for him, he's doing what they want him to, hence the support. 

Sorry, you are mistaken here - the Drumph made many clear populist-type promises . . . 

and broke every single one,  

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/05/trump-broken-every-populist-campaign-promise-prescription-drugs-infrastructure.html

and just this week DeVos was fined by a court for screwing student borrowers 

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2019/11/judge-sallie-kim-80-fined-education-secretary-betsy-devos-for-contempt-of-court

Did Trump's supporters want this ?  

No

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36 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Sorry, you are mistaken here - the Drumph made many clear populist-type promises . . . 

and broke every single one,  

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/05/trump-broken-every-populist-campaign-promise-prescription-drugs-infrastructure.html

and just this week DeVos was fined by a court for screwing student borrowers 

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/article/2019/11/judge-sallie-kim-80-fined-education-secretary-betsy-devos-for-contempt-of-court

Did Trump's supporters want this ?  

No

Agreed, but they were trivial compared with what his supporters REALLY wanted.  Hence their continued support. He said things to bring in a few more voters but his base didn't care about those things, It was about putting women back in their place, locking the door to immigrants, kicking the undeserving poor and getting God back into government. The same people that voted reliably for two Bushes and and an Irish actor.

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Yes. As Reagan said he'd be crazy to give in to the Christian Rights demands on abortion. Every other politician agreed.

The Christian Right, and the rightwing in general, found someone crazy enough to give in to all of their demands - Trump. The crazy, unhinged, schizophrenic pandering to every whim of the base is a feature, not a bug.

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On 11/6/2019 at 7:38 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

At that point, you have to start admitting your party's message may be lacking across a broad enough spectrum.  That maybe you DO indeed need to address immigration reform, globalism, race relations (beyond just white guilt shaming), stop labeling fellow Americans as deplorables,

Another 4 years of Trump has everything to do with ignorance and the simple ability to speak to that ignorance.  Shitstain’s 40% will never leave his side because they are idiots.  It’s a matter of those who are apathetic waking up to the damage Trump has caused and will continue to cause.  Americans however are spoiled rotten.  Low interest rates and out of control government spending keep the masses just full enough in their bellies to not really give a damn.  Sure, the Dem messaging could include those who are apathetic but The 40% who keep voting against their own interests are a powerful group.  

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24 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Another 4 years of Trump has everything to do with ignorance and the simple ability to speak to that ignorance.  Shitstain’s 40% will never leave his side because they are idiots.  It’s a matter of those who are apathetic waking up to the damage Trump has caused and will continue to cause.  Americans however are spoiled rotten.  Low interest rates and out of control government spending keep the masses just full enough in their bellies to not really give a damn.  Sure, the Dem messaging could include those who are apathetic but The 40% who keep voting against their own interests are a powerful group.  

Harsh words but I totally agree.  Cheap gas for my monster truck with its 7 year note, promise of another tax cut, keep women, darkies, and foreigners in their places.  And, oh yeah, America first.  A winning combination in a place where people fight (and sometimes die) over a place in line for a fast food chicken sandwich.

In addition to Dean Vernon Wormer’s words I’ll add the observation of Walt Kelly’s cartoon character Pogo: “we have met the enemy and he is us.”

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If Donnie keeps shooting himself in the foot, he may just make the Dem's job easier.

Screen_Shot_2019-11-07_at_1_06.35_PM.png

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

The crazy, unhinged, schizophrenic pandering to every whim of the base is a feature, not a bug.

It’s not that he’s breaking the law and defrauding charities and they look the other way, they cheer it and find it admirable.  They’re convinced that a rich conman is somehow a victim and that he fights for them.  

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Actually the reason the faithful stick to trump is that he’s delivered BIGLY on his one main campaign promise..... SCOTUS and Federal judges.  Just saying.

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17 hours ago, AJ Oliver said:

Sorry, you are mistaken here - the Drumph made many clear populist-type promises . . . 

and broke every single one

You keep saying that and I keep wishing it were true.

Unfortunately, he's managed to ignite a stupid trade war and he's declared a national PANIC to grab funding and property for his stupid wall, both populist promises that he has worked hard to keep.

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On 11/6/2019 at 12:00 PM, d'ranger said:

When I want insight into US politics I always turn to someone half a world away living in country with the population of the metro area where I live. 

How many guns can Jeff own where he is?  Is it even a democracy?

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45 minutes ago, Amati said:

How many guns can Jeff own where he is?  Is it even a democracy?

Well I was referring to the original writer from NZ but funny it applies to Jeff as well. He is an expert on everything - really, just ask him. 

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