Roleur

Ideas for getting a mixed DH long distance race in Puget Sound?

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How do we get an event similar to the AYC Double-handed Distance race in the Puget Sound / Salish Sea?

Ideas?

Race to the Straits is a super popular DH race and there are a lot of mixed gender boats.  The legs are only 40nm or so, so not really a distance race.  

Run it in conjunction with Swiftsure?  Smith Island?

Have a stand alone race where the course is determined by the forecast, like they did at AYC?

Could we have one starting in the Seattle area and another starting in the Vancouver area?  Southern straits is a good one.  We've done it DH, and it was good fun, but it might be a bit early in the year for wider appeal for DH?  Personally, we appreciate the better chance of good breeze that time of year.  

Patos Island Race in the spring would be a bomber race for this, but the start (Sydney) might be a bit far from Seattle and Vancouver to draw as many teams.  

Any others here that are interested in seeing more DH (particularly mixed) racing in the Salish Sea?  

 

 

 

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Fun being had while DH (mixed) racing...

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The Northern Century has or had a double handed division.

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I believe there was discussion at SYC to offer DH classes for the Tri-Island races if there was demand. This thread cannot hurt 

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Personally, I love the idea of more distance races either strictly shorthanded, or separate divisions within the existing PNW schedule. But, this being said, there does not seem to be a huge demand for these classes up here, so not sure if a dedicated 24+ hour DH race would get much traction. The RNSA single-handed race held in June this past year opened itself up to a double-handed division for the first time, and they managed to get 40% of the entrants to sail DH (9 boats), so that one is going to stick around again for the upcoming year. Might be worth just trying to get more entrants into the existing short-handed races, or registering short-handed in the bigger ones, then once there is a large enough fleet to warrant it, start making them longer and more challenging?

I do like the idea of the variety of course options so that race organizers can at least attempt to get a decent race in at the last minute based on the forecast.

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18 hours ago, Great White said:

The Northern Century has or had a double handed division.

Yep.  That is a good format.  We've done the race the last two years and it is a good challenge.  It only draws about 10 DH boats though.  Maybe that will change as the news gets out about the 2024 Olympics.  Maybe not.

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3 hours ago, Goatish said:

Personally, I love the idea of more distance races either strictly shorthanded, or separate divisions within the existing PNW schedule. But, this being said, there does not seem to be a huge demand for these classes up here, so not sure if a dedicated 24+ hour DH race would get much traction. The RNSA single-handed race held in June this past year opened itself up to a double-handed division for the first time, and they managed to get 40% of the entrants to sail DH (9 boats), so that one is going to stick around again for the upcoming year. Might be worth just trying to get more entrants into the existing short-handed races, or registering short-handed in the bigger ones, then once there is a large enough fleet to warrant it, start making them longer and more challenging?

I do like the idea of the variety of course options so that race organizers can at least attempt to get a decent race in at the last minute based on the forecast.

You may be right.  It may be as simple as promoting DH classes for the races we already have.  We've done Southern Straits DH and the Patos Island Race DH.  Those are good overnight races at 100nm and 75nm.  Swiftsure usually has a few boats that DH.  There is also the Vendee Saltspring Race in July that is a two leg DH race similar to Race to the Straits.  

We considered coming down to Seattle for Tri-Island Series.  Would definitely be more inclined if there were a DH division.  

Flip-flopping on my thoughts at the moment.  The trouble with tacking on a DH division to an existing race is that the DH division will be just a small part of the race.  When it is explicitly DH (or SH) like Race to the Straits and the RNSA race it is all about DH (or SH) and that brings greater visibility.  

My wife & I are committed to hitting the "circuit" in 2020 racing DH in every race.  That will serve as a test to determine if we try Van Isle 360 double-handed in 2021.  

One of the challenges we currently have with DH racing in our area is the wide rating span of the boats that currently race DH (Except for RTTS).  We need more boats to make the racing more fair and fun, or we all need to get more similar boats.  I like the first option better.  

 

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Why not just jump into your fully crewed division and sail SH or DH or +1 or whatever.  Given the limitations of my boat - 1982, 37 foot IOR influenced racer/ cruiser I sure as shit was not going to jump into the DH classes we have around here with the J-120s  Sunfast 3600 etc and other sprit boats.  Instead  I jumped into my PHRF class rating fleet ( usually 100-125) and raced against fully crewed boats. For Overnight distance I go DH,  for middle distance day racing and navigator’ish buoy racing I go SH. At least that way I can compete with more like kind boats.

Don’t wait on someone else to create a race, jump in the deep end make your own.  It gets the other skippers thinking....

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Actually, that is what we do.  And we have a J/120 FWIW.  

We did The 100nm Southern Straits Race DH.  There were 5 DH boats and 70 fully crewed. It went really well, but just think how it would have been if all of the other boats were DH too. That’s what we plan to do more of next year, but I would hope to have more dedicated DH races or divisions too.

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I'd love to see more short handed races, especially originating in/near the San Juans where I keep my Olson 25. I'm still new to racing my own boat, and often short on experienced crew. I'm thinking of delivering my boat down to Seattle for the summer so I can do more Sloop DH/SH racing. I considered the Northern Century, but would have easily been the slowest boat out there on handicap. It's a long time to spend at the back of the fleet.

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3 hours ago, rlotz said:

I'd love to see more short handed races, especially originating in/near the San Juans where I keep my Olson 25. I'm still new to racing my own boat, and often short on experienced crew. I'm thinking of delivering my boat down to Seattle for the summer so I can do more Sloop DH/SH racing. I considered the Northern Century, but would have easily been the slowest boat out there on handicap. It's a long time to spend at the back of the fleet.

You would like Race to the Straits.  100+ double-handed boats and plenty in your rating range.  First week of May.  Starts at Shilshole, race to Port Townsend on Saturday.  On Sunday, PT to Shilshole.  It's one of our favorite races of the year.

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I did the STYC single handed flying sails division in 2018 and those are great races in Puget Sound, although to the point not quite distance races.  We did the Northern Century race this last year fully crewed but got skunked on wind.  That is a good DH distance race but delivery took some time.  I really enjoy racing our GS40 short handed and keep the crew on distance races to 5 with 2 on deck for any shift.  Sailing shorthanded means less crew coordination and more hands on sailing for all of us.

One issue for single-handed distance racing (+24 hours) in Puget Sound is sleep.  It's not open enough a space to let the autopilot drive the boat for very long.  Lot's of traffic to navigate as well.  We mostly run a windward / leeward course through the Puget Sound sailing which means you've got to get on a new tack fairly often.  I did STYC's Down The Sound solo and counted 25 jibes just to get through Colvos Pass.   Barely time to eat a quick snack.  Would love to learn others strategies around this.

Here are a couple of things that I think could help build better SH and DH distance racing in our area:

1)  Anything the race committee can do to help single-handers navigate tight marinas and raft-ups is a big relief.  Maybe I'm the only one but it would help a ton if the RC were to set aside assigned docking especially for SH's and could radio a line handler to help get her tied up.  Or keep us all together in one spot and as a class we can help handle that docking.

2)  Classes.  I'm newish to racing and new to single-handing.  I wish we had a good mentor / coaching system where I would swap races with someone else to help improve.  I'd be happy to trade time on someone else's vessel to get feedback the other way.  Hell, I'd love to just have a meet-up where we could look through different rig setups. 

If there were a PNW Single Handed / Double Handed association perhaps it could help risk averse RC's feel more confident in the sailors and vessels.  Providing classes, coaching and helping RC's get new classes supported effectively.  Providing assistance for short-handed classes during the race so it's not a big headache for the existing race committee.

J

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Sadie Mae?

Some great feedback/comments.  I wonder if a SH/DH association for the region would be helpful?  Something like the SSS in Bay area.  Seems like it might.  It would definitely be an avenue for mentoring.  

I don't think the Coast Guard will okay an overnight single-handed race in the Salish Sea.  I know Northern Century specifically forbids SH for that reason.  

 

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I"m totally on board with some kind of short handed advocacy group in an effort to get more boats off the dock and on the race course.  My sailing partner and I have been talking about this for the last year -- I think there's an opportunity here to improve the level of participation and experience across the board.

The short handed races that I'm aware of are pretty much limited to the Northern Century, the Race to the Straits, the RSNA weekend, two mixed DH events in Vancouver and a Salt Spring race in the summer.  The mixed day races appear to be attended by relatively inexperienced teams and I think it's safe to say that flying sails are seldom used.  Last year my sailing partner asked if we could enter (not mixed) and the organizers thought that a non-mixed entry would not be in the spirit of the events.

I love the Northern Century and will be racing it this summer.  I raced it DH in '13 and '15 and I seem to remember that there were more than 10 entries in the DH division those years.  For lack of DH distance racing, we've simply entered the normal race circuit and have forgotten to tell any crew when/where to show up.  Our early season schedule this year includes Patos, Straits, Oregon, (regular) Salt Spring.  Sometimes we do well against fully crewed boats and sometimes we suck, but it's working for us.  

From a mixed team standpoint, I think it'd take a organizing body to promote matching skills and personalities -- which may be a long development cycle.  At present, it seems too difficult to just get DH competitors out to the start line without considering the mixed team concept.  Still too many people with the mindset that you can't get the boat off the dock without half a dozen crew. 

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31 minutes ago, Que said:

I"m totally on board with some kind of short handed advocacy group in an effort to get more boats off the dock and on the race course.  My sailing partner and I have been talking about this for the last year -- I think there's an opportunity here to improve the level of participation and experience across the board.

The short handed races that I'm aware of are pretty much limited to the Northern Century, the Race to the Straits, the RSNA weekend, two mixed DH events in Vancouver and a Salt Spring race in the summer.  The mixed day races appear to be attended by relatively inexperienced teams and I think it's safe to say that flying sails are seldom used.  Last year my sailing partner asked if we could enter (not mixed) and the organizers thought that a non-mixed entry would not be in the spirit of the events.

I love the Northern Century and will be racing it this summer.  I raced it DH in '13 and '15 and I seem to remember that there were more than 10 entries in the DH division those years.  For lack of DH distance racing, we've simply entered the normal race circuit and have forgotten to tell any crew when/where to show up.  Our early season schedule this year includes Patos, Straits, Oregon, (regular) Salt Spring.  Sometimes we do well against fully crewed boats and sometimes we suck, but it's working for us.  

From a mixed team standpoint, I think it'd take a organizing body to promote matching skills and personalities -- which may be a long development cycle.  At present, it seems too difficult to just get DH competitors out to the start line without considering the mixed team concept.  Still too many people with the mindset that you can't get the boat off the dock without half a dozen crew. 

Que, what boat?  Dilligaf, Ross 930, right?

 

Interesting about the Vancouver races.  We'd be up for those if there were others interested in flying sails racing.  

I did the RNSA race in 2015 and that was super fun, but the timing isn't great relative to other big races (Swiftsure, Van Isle).  Interesting that it now has a DH division.  

In the middle (San Juans) we will have 3 distance races with a DH division and an award for the series.  Pt. Roberts Race, Round Orcas, and Northern Century. 

Our schedule (all DH) for 2020 looks like Winter Shaw, Girts Foul Weather, Patos, Southern Straits, Swiftsure, Pt. Roberts, Round Orcas, Summer Shaw, Northern Century.

I'd like to do a Salt Spring race too.  Is there a Vendee Salt Spring this year?  That is all DH or SH, right?  

 

Agree that DH shouldn't be exclusively mixed.  Let's get the numbers up first and we can always do like Race to the Straits where they acknowledge the mixed teams within the overall race.  We got some nice swag one year for first mixed team to Port Townsend.  Good enough...

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I absolutely love dh racing.  I find it so frustrating and hard to get crew to show up.  So any talk of of starting a sss similar to what is happening in the Bay Area would be awesome. 

in terms of a long distance dh race In the Puget sound what about Olympia to....

seattle

gig harbor

port Townsend

heck Victoria.    

just some ideas!   I think there are some out of Tacoma as well  

 

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14 hours ago, Roleur said:

Que, what boat?  Dilligaf, Ross 930, right?

 

I'd like to do a Salt Spring race too.  Is there a Vendee Salt Spring this year?  That is all DH or SH, right?  

 

Agree that DH shouldn't be exclusively mixed.  Let's get the numbers up first and we can always do like Race to the Straits where they acknowledge the mixed teams within the overall race.  We got some nice swag one year for first mixed team to Port Townsend.  Good enough...

Yep, the 930.  I believe the Vendee Salt Spring is the first week of July and is a SH/DH only.  

I think this could gain some serious traction.  I'm not sure of the best way to structure such an effort here as I think (at least at this point) it should be quite different from SSS.  I think success lies in an organized/consistent approach at advocating short handed participation within our respective clubs and the overall sailing community. 
 

11 hours ago, Rainy Day Sailor said:

I find it so frustrating and hard to get crew to show up.

  We all hear this so often.... 

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I'll put a plug in for the Patos Island Race on March 28-29th.  It is centrally located for the N/S crowds, well run, a very, very interesting course, and because of the time of year has a better chance of having good wind all night than summer time overnighters.  Let's see how many DH boats we can get for the long course there.  I know of 3 boats from our area that are interested in DH at Patos.  

We could also use that race as an opportunity to meet up and discuss ideas for getting organized, although making progress ahead of that date (3 months away) would be good too.  

Seems like one of the places to start would be to get a list of boats/contact information that are interested in DH racing, particularly those willing to travel beyond their local club for races.  Anyone have any clever ideas for getting that started?

We could create a Facebook page for this, but I don't know the general vibe with FB these days.  

A website?  Likely not free to create.

An email list?  

Personally, I feel like FB is the fastest way to get the word out to the region as information can easily be shared across personal, yacht club, and regional pages.  

An article for Kurt at Salish.com could be worthwhile too.  Probably reasonable to have a write-up after races just focussing on the DH racing for Salish.com, something to keep the momentum going throughout the year.  Also an early season article to get the word out.  I've written articles for Kurt before and find that rather fun.   

And anyone who isn't already planning to do Race the Straits, fix your calendar and make that one work.  That is another great opportunity to meet up and get some momentum.  100+ DH boats....  Come on!  How can you miss that one?  

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Find it interesting that when I issued a DH challenge last year, we only had one race (which was Patos) that got a prerequisite number of boats for a division. 

I agree that we need to just get the numbers up of DH racers before we start trying to concentrate on the mixed DH divisions.   I think if you read the qualifications for the Offshore Racing as prescribed by the Olympics...  there are only two races that are PNW races that would qualify (200nm):  Oregon and VicMaui.  I do think that getting a number of DH boats out for the 100nm races is a wonderful prelim.   And I don't think we need to clog the calendar with more races.   If we just register as DH entries; every organizer I know would be very glad to recognize the division.

I don't see the need to recreate the wheel here... we have Sailing Anarchy, Vancouver Area Racers' Forum, VIRS Facebook page, and PIYA Facebook.   Keep the discussions public on widespread forums to create more interest and buzz.

As Que said...  we are doing Patos, Straits, Oregon, Saltspring, Lasqueti and Bowen.   Probably Northern Century.  If we are sure that there will be definite DH division:  I will endeavor to get the boat to it.   BUT, I was disappointed last year.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Que said:

Yep, the 930.  I believe the Vendee Salt Spring is the first week of July and is a SH/DH only.  

FYI - there is a movement to convince the organizers to move the Vendee to the second weekend in July for 2020 to avoid conflicting with the SIN Regatta/M242 Nationals on the first weekend.  Stay tuned, don't mark it on the calendar yet.  Hoping it happens so I can do Vendee this year!

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I think the idea of a Facebook page is good.  It’s current and free as well as easy to set up. Paris is too far for me though, at least a 20 hour delivery one way.  
 

I am looking at race to the straights, down the sound, and maybe northern century as it sounds like many of you are interested in this one.  

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1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

Find it interesting that when I issued a DH challenge last year, we only had one race (which was Patos) that got a prerequisite number of boats for a division. 

I agree that we need to just get the numbers up of DH racers before we start trying to concentrate on the mixed DH divisions.   I think if you read the qualifications for the Offshore Racing as prescribed by the Olympics...  there are only two races that are PNW races that would qualify (200nm):  Oregon and VicMaui.  I do think that getting a number of DH boats out for the 100nm races is a wonderful prelim.   And I don't think we need to clog the calendar with more races.   If we just register as DH entries; every organizer I know would be very glad to recognize the division.

I don't see the need to recreate the wheel here... we have Sailing Anarchy, Vancouver Area Racers' Forum, VIRS Facebook page, and PIYA Facebook.   Keep the discussions public on widespread forums to create more interest and buzz.

As Que said...  we are doing Patos, Straits, Oregon, Saltspring, Lasqueti and Bowen.   Probably Northern Century.  If we are sure that there will be definite DH division:  I will endeavor to get the boat to it.   BUT, I was disappointed last year.

 

 

 

Yes, I remember that challenge last year and feeling bad and we were committed to Van Isle and spending as much time as we could with that crew ahead of time.  2020 is a new year with new goals!

Can you post a link regarding the qualifications for the Olympics?  I'd like to keep sharing that sort of information on the other thread.  Is that a qualification to participate in the trials, or?

Oregon Offshore, but no Swiftsure this year?  I'm torn about Oregon (or Ilwaco...) as it is just one week after Race to the Straits.  Can't see doing those both in the same year and RTTS is so much fun.  

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This is the 2020 Offshore World Championship Qualifications for the athlete:

5.3 In addition, a competitor shall: (a) have completed a minimum of 200nm as part of a Two Person crew; (b) have completed a World Sailing Sea Survival Course within 3 years of the start of the Qualification Event; (c) have completed an OSR recognised first aid course within 5 years of the start of the Qualification Event; and (d) have a signed certificate of competence by both their MNA and a referee who can vouch for the competitor’s sailing experience – a detailed sailing CV will be required.

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On 1/1/2020 at 8:47 PM, Roleur said:

Oregon Offshore, but no Swiftsure this year?

It's all in the scheduling.  By the time we deliver the boat to Astoria, race back, run the boat to Ganges for Salt Spring, the boat is halfway home.  The additional day to deliver back down to Victoria, race and then run the boat north is a bit much this year.

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Patos Island Race registration opened 2 days ago.  10 boats signed up and there are already 4 DH entrants!  Off to a good start for 2020.  I know of 2 other likely DH entrants from the US.

Let's do this!

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Endangered Species!  Very cool and most welcome!!!!!  I think I still have the WB magazine in my office with the build write up.

 

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Regarding the 2 mixed DH events in Vancouver each year, they state that one crew member should "look" like a male, and one should "look" like a female, close inspections will not be done for confirmation...

Also, most of the entrants to these races fly kites, I think the last 2 years only maybe one or two boats have entered as NFS registrants, so the competition is actually pretty good. They are 2 of my favorite races, and are already booked off in the calendar for this year, along with the TCYC Passage Island SH race on April 25th and the RNSA Regatta on June 6/7th.

The VARC FB page may also be a good place to post up regarding the SH/DH stuff, as well as most of the club websites and FB pages (they all share amongst themselves anyways) so maybe just some details are needed and the conversation can move from here to all of them.

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1 hour ago, Que said:

Endangered Species!  Very cool and most welcome!!!!!  I think I still have the WB magazine in my office with the build write up.

 

Yes, very cool.  Did that boat sell to Canada, or is it still based out of Roche Harbor on San Juan?  Hope we can get them out for more races.

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When are the Vancouver mixed races? These are new to me, and since I don't know what club is hosting them, I don't know where to search for them.  Thanks.

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I haven't seen Endangered Species up here.  In 2016 a "friend of a friend of an acquaintance" suggested that the boat would be racing in the then-near-future out of Seattle, but I never heard/saw anything come of that.

Vancouver Rowing Club hosts the Ken and Barbie and West Van hosts the Jack and Jill.  VRC is not overly picky about Ken and Barbie being anatomically correct.

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I've seen Endangered Species in Roche Harbor in either 2017 or 2018.  I heard they were prepping for a Single Handed Transpac or something like that.  

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I see that Ken & Barbie and Jack & Jill are back to back on the same weekend.  August 29th & 30th.  Sounds fun, actually.  We might give it a whirl.  

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Let's not forget that Sloop Tavern has the Triple Series for DH and SH.  Race to the Straits, Down the Sound, and Jack & Jill.  

I count 6 races in the region that are exclusively DH or DH & SH (no fully crewed boats) and then 3 races that have specific DH divisions (all in the San Juans area).  Hopefully we can get enough boats in some of the fully crewed races to make for some competitive DH racing there too.  

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A few more thoughts on this now that I have re-read most of the thread and thought more about it all in general this morning:

Increasing DH participation in existing distance (or any) races: Scoring and rating adjustments may help. I note that for the most part, around Vancouver there is no benefit to the short handed boats. If racing under PHRF no allowance is given for the added challenge of performing maneuvers with 1 or 2 crew on deck. Under ORC, if the race committee is willing they can use the DH GPH number to adjust scoring, but as far as I have seen, this has not occurred (Dilligaf maybe you can shed more light as to whether this does ever happen around here?). So, why would a DH boat come out to compete with a fleet of fully crewed boats unless they were really good and confident in their chances of beating the others (Roleur, you have proven this is possible, but a lot of boats will not come out short handed against fully crewed fleets).

For this to be rectified, interested parties should contact their club fleet captains, race chairs, VARC / VIRS reps and make the request that either completely separate divisions for SH/DH entrants be created, or the scoring be adjusted to level the field.

 

Short handed specific races vs. short handed entrants into existing races: On further thought on this, I realize that I am guilty of not entering short handed into fully crewed races if I have willing crew. It is only the short handed specific races that it is easy to enter and not invite the crew out for. I have raced a fair bit the past few years with short crew, but never short enough to constitute a DH entry. If I'm registered for a race, and I have 2 crew willing to come out, I'm not going to turn one down to be eligible for a DH entry if they are willing to come out. Good crew is hard to come by, so hard to tell them to go away so I can fulfill an itch  once and a while.

So, that being said, I think that yes, maybe some more SH/DH specific races may be beneficial to add into the mix if their is a demand for it.

 

The best way to make this kind of stuff happen is to get involved with your clubs and become part of the change you want to see. No one is going to put on a special race for you based on what they read on a forum, so reach out, go to the stupid meetings, volunteer with them and make the changes happen.

On the note of getting the word out to people about this PNW SH/DH interest, I will send out an email to our club's members about it, and see about posting something up on our FB page in the coming days. I may just link this thread and ask for comments regarding it, but we may have some interest as there are at least 2 local Mini-Transat owners as members, and a large portion or our club races short handed a fair bit each year.

 

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Are there any examples of PHRF rating adjustments for double-handing?  I'm not aware any, but would be happy to be wrong.  I think this adjustment would make DH much more popular.  Certainly, we should lobby for the ORC races to include the DH rating.  

The willing crew thing is a conundrum.  We have two wonderful crew that have raced with us a lot.  The challenge we face is does it make sense for us to race a J/120 fully crewed with only 4 people (that's not fully crewed, in case there is confusion), versus racing DH where at least that designation shows on our entry?  Southern Straits 2018 is the perfect example.  Finishing 6th overall while DH is pretty cool.  Doing that with 3 or 4 is exactly like getting 6th OA.  I don't have a solution for this.  It remains a puzzle.  The only clear divider is that DH racing is cheaper for us.  

 

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And there are now 5 DH boats for Patos out of 12 entries!

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1 hour ago, dilligaf said:

Goatish:  No they do not make any compensation for us sailing DH against full crewed boats. 

I kind of figured that much.

I have made the request to my VARC Rep, and he has passed it on to the chair to have this added to the agenda and looked at as they work on the 2020 NoR, so maybe we will get lucky and something will come of it. You may want to see if yours can do the same to ensure it is understood this is desired as I believe NYC is part of VARC now (or I suppose you could make the request to your Division Rep as well).

 

I'm happy to assist as much as I can to make these changes reality, and may look at modifying the scoring for the races we run to reflect this desire. All I can say though, to make this worthwhile, we will need people to show up and sail in these divisions for it to continue on.

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PHRF has no (and really, shouldn't have) any adjustment for number of crew.  PHRF is strictly a rating of the boat with no consideration for experience or number of crew.  It does make it a significant disadvantage to show up to any of the regular distance races with only two onboard, even from a consideration of inexperienced crew providing weight on the high-side.  Sometimes it works (2017 we got a 3rd in Straits).  Sometimes it sucks (2018 Oregon, DNF after beating into 25 for a day or so). 

Personally, I find it important to measure the race results more by relative performance against selected competitors -- i.e. we'd better be well ahead of a boat fully crewed by first-timers.  DH in a mixed PHRF fleet is not a good way to collect pickle dishes (but it is very rewarding you do, or even when you sail by a better rated, fully crewed boat at night under chute!).

Leaving regular crew at the dock to enter a race like Swiftsure of Straits is a no-go in my mind unless you plan well ahead and make sure that you find a suitable ride for them.  That can work though -- as we all know, lots of boats stay at the dock for lack of experienced crew.  I find mixing crew through the fleet can provide some good learning opportunities. 

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I currently sail out of SISC(saltspring island) and am certainly interested!!! They do an annual DH race with MBYC(maple bay) as mentioned before called Vendee Saltspring.

https://www.saltspringsailing.ca/vendee-saltspring/

Lots of fun, with two days of racing and great food. Very very welcoming to beginners, so a great race to try out!

Gonna have to find a huge human to sit on the rail of my J/24 to keep it flat haha, any 500lb people in the area? ;)

cheers!

 

 

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I sail out of Bellingham,  I have one of the quest 30's here in the PNW.

I am also very interested in double handed racing. My son and I have done numerous Race to the Straights as well as southern Straights double handed on my old boat a J30.

I am planning to do Patos, Southern Straights, Oregon offshore ( PNW offshore,  with crew ) , Swiftsure, as well as others. including Northern century.

( Starting to plan, so we'll see what we can actually do this year.) I really love Race to the Straights, but unfortunately it's the week before OOS, so probably won't make it this year.

I need to get the new boat dialed in with the goal to sail the Pacific Cup in 2022.

It would be great to see some type of group form like the SSS in the bay area. A place to exchange ideas. Maybe a FB page would be a good place to start to get the word out and for ease of communicating.

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34 minutes ago, ️parkyJohn said:

I currently sail out of SISC(saltspring island) and am certainly interested!!! They do an annual DH race with MBYC(maple bay) as mentioned before called Vendee Saltspring.

https://www.saltspringsailing.ca/vendee-saltspring/

Lots of fun, with two days of racing and great food. Very very welcoming to beginners, so a great race to try out!

Gonna have to find a huge human to sit on the rail of my J/24 to keep it flat haha, any 500lb people in the area? ;)

cheers!

 

 

If the writer of the NoR and SIs wants to make this more fun and easier for the light weight boats, they could make some amendments such as allowing the use of hiking straps or outside life-line hiking allowances. If this race does not fall on a Vancouver area race weekend, I'd be interested in coming over and sailing my 2000 pound sport boat 2 up for this (she usually needs 4 or 5 on the rail to keep it flat in over 8 knots)!

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7 minutes ago, Goatish said:

If the writer of the NoR and SIs wants to make this more fun and easier for the light weight boats, they could make some amendments such as allowing the use of hiking straps or outside life-line hiking allowances. If this race does not fall on a Vancouver area race weekend, I'd be interested in coming over and sailing my 2000 pound sport boat 2 up for this (she usually needs 4 or 5 on the rail to keep it flat in over 8 knots)!

Honestly, I doubt anyone would care, probably  just be impressed! Rather casual racing bunch. Additionally I’m sure they would be more than happy to take suggestions/amendments to allow more boats to show.

Another great idea would be to have a DH division for the RSS(round salt spring) if this interests people I’m sure we can make that happen too!! 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Q30 said:

I sail out of Bellingham,  I have one of the quest 30's here in the PNW.

I am also very interested in double handed racing. My son and I have done numerous Race to the Straights as well as southern Straights double handed on my old boat a J30.

I am planning to do Patos, Southern Straights, Oregon offshore ( PNW offshore,  with crew ) , Swiftsure, as well as others. including Northern century.

( Starting to plan, so we'll see what we can actually do this year.) I really love Race to the Straights, but unfortunately it's the week before OOS, so probably won't make it this year.

I need to get the new boat dialed in with the goal to sail the Pacific Cup in 2022.

It would be great to see some type of group form like the SSS in the bay area. A place to exchange ideas. Maybe a FB page would be a good place to start to get the word out and for ease of communicating.

Q30!  Glad you found this thread.  You raced Round the County, correct?  Probably less than ideal conditions for a Q30, so here's hoping you find better conditions in the future.  We tried to buy a Quest 30.  Twice.  Both times we were ready to pull the trigger there weren't any for sale and we bought other boats.  I still they are great boats.  Ahead of their time even, given the latest rage of 30-33' offshore capable short-handed boats.  Does yours have waterballast?  Seems like a great boat for DH to Hawaii.

Hope to meet you at the Patos race.  Also, in February we'll have Winter Shaw with at least a few other DH entries.  

Totally agree on the date conflicts with Race to the Straits and Offshore.  Have to pick one or the other.  

I suspect you also have the Pt. Roberts race out of Bellingham in June on your calendar.  I understand that will have a DH division along with Round Orcas in late June and Northern Century.  The 3 will make up a series.  

Oh, and there are already 2 of us on Orcas talking about Pac Cup 2022 DH, as well as a boat from PT.  My wife & I have done Pac Cup DH twice when we lived in TX, so excited to prep for 2022 with some other local interested parties.  

 

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36 minutes ago, Roleur said:

talking about Pac Cup 2022 DH

 

uh oh.  I referred to our 2018 Oregon effort as an "exercise in stupidity".  An "exercise in the ludicrous" was/is the natural progression.

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15 hours ago, Roleur said:

Q30!  Glad you found this thread.  You raced Round the County, correct?  Probably less than ideal conditions for a Q30, so here's hoping you find better conditions in the future.  We tried to buy a Quest 30.  Twice.  Both times we were ready to pull the trigger there weren't any for sale and we bought other boats.  I still they are great boats.  Ahead of their time even, given the latest rage of 30-33' offshore capable short-handed boats.  Does yours have waterballast?  Seems like a great boat for DH to Hawaii.

Hope to meet you at the Patos race.  Also, in February we'll have Winter Shaw with at least a few other DH entries.  

Totally agree on the date conflicts with Race to the Straits and Offshore.  Have to pick one or the other.  

I suspect you also have the Pt. Roberts race out of Bellingham in June on your calendar.  I understand that will have a DH division along with Round Orcas in late June and Northern Century.  The 3 will make up a series.  

Oh, and there are already 2 of us on Orcas talking about Pac Cup 2022 DH, as well as a boat from PT.  My wife & I have done Pac Cup DH twice when we lived in TX, so excited to prep for 2022 with some other local interested parties.  

 

No water ballast. It was never set up in this boat. We had fun on round the county and I was happy with the light air performance of the boat. I had read all the blogs saying it's sticky in light air but we were able to keep it moving. Maybe its the single rudder, ! I'm looking forward to this spring and summer racing. last summer was a bust, brought the boat out from the east coast and had projects to do so didn't sail as much as we wanted.

Winter Shaw sounds fun, I'll be there !

Saw your blog a while back, it's helped inspire me to get the PacCup race on the calendar. Great to hear other local boats are getting ready. Maybe we can all get together and pass along ideas.

 

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On 1/5/2020 at 7:57 PM, Goatish said:

I have made the request to my VARC Rep, and he has passed it on to the chair to have this added to the agenda and looked at as they work on the 2020 NoR, so maybe we will get lucky and something will come of it. You may want to see if yours can do the same to ensure it is understood this is desired as I believe NYC is part of VARC now (or I suppose you could make the request to your Division Rep as well).

Ask and ye shall receive, at least something. Below is an excerpt from the Vancouver Area Racer's Forum regarding a the request I made: line #4 is the one to note specifically. Not a lot, but hey, a start to something is better than nothing!

 

A couple of things coming out of the recent VARC meeting:

First, RVYC has set the date of the new Leukemia Cup for May 30, and is hoping to build it into a major cornerstone event along the lines of the old Heineken Cup. The course will be set up so it is a fun event, but conventional enough to count as a serious race, and as I understand it the hope is to make it a VARC event (likely there will be a “racer’s start” and a “cruiser’s start”).

Second, WVYC has taken over ownership of the RNSA Nanaimo Single-handed race from FCYC, and the date for that is set for June 6/7.

Third, and without going into too much specifics (because I don’t want to steal anyone’s thunder prior to the official meeting minutes coming out), a couple of different clubs discussed the possibility of changing existing weekend races into overnight layover events (where racers race to a distant location on day 1, layover and party, then race back on day 2).

Fourth, and finally, there was also some discussion about doing something to recognize and encourage short-handed racers, like possibly a separate double-handed championship prize based on existing events and given out at the VARC awards night.

 

My understanding is that the 3 current DH events (RNSA DH, K&B, J&J) will be the qualifying races for this championship, so it would be best suited to a mixed crew, but Dilligaf and Que, as long as one of you is willing to dress up (or is it down?) we may let you play!

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On 1/10/2020 at 5:26 PM, Goatish said:

 Dilligaf and Que, as long as one of you is willing to dress up (or is it down?) we may let you play!

I'm just putting it out there....I am NOT a pretty girl!!!!

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Interesting little update from ORC this morning here: http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1109014349704&ca=115cbb86-d7e1-4ab4-95c8-aff4033c4e74

" The race to Key West will be the first of the year to use the new ORC Double Handed Certificate, specially developed to meet the demand for this growing trend in offshore racing. Double Handed certificates feature lower crew weights, a simple one-page layout, and a variety of simple scoring options available to race managers to better match the ratings with the course type. "

Not sure yet how this will work in relation to standard ORC scoring, ie. whether it will be usable in the same class as fully crewed boats, but interesting nonetheless!

Might be worth those of us that want to race DH applying for one this year.

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3 minutes ago, Goatish said:

Interesting little update from ORC this morning here: http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1109014349704&ca=115cbb86-d7e1-4ab4-95c8-aff4033c4e74

" The race to Key West will be the first of the year to use the new ORC Double Handed Certificate, specially developed to meet the demand for this growing trend in offshore racing. Double Handed certificates feature lower crew weights, a simple one-page layout, and a variety of simple scoring options available to race managers to better match the ratings with the course type. "

Not sure yet how this will work in relation to standard ORC scoring, ie. whether it will be usable in the same class as fully crewed boats, but interesting nonetheless!

Might be worth those of us that want to race DH applying for one this year.

I was planning to do that.  Going to get an ORCi certificate rather than a Club certificate as well.  Unfortunately, our measurement date for ORCi is the week after Southern Straits.  I believe SS will do courtesy ORC scoring for any boats with a certificate.  

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Endangered Species...we have been working on the boat steadily since July.  Just took it for the first sail (in 7 years?  10 years?  I don't know) 10 days ago.  We should be out for any local races that will have us Double Handed, Shaw, Patos, Straits etc.  Whatever the result, the boat will be looking good.

species ready.jpg

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2 hours ago, SJIslander said:

Endangered Species...we have been working on the boat steadily since July.  Just took it for the first sail (in 7 years?  10 years?  I don't know) 10 days ago.  We should be out for any local races that will have us Double Handed, Shaw, Patos, Straits etc.  Whatever the result, the boat will be looking good.

species ready.jpg

Good to see you are getting it back into shape. Used to see it anchored off of John's place near Poulsbo. 

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2 hours ago, SJIslander said:

Endangered Species...we have been working on the boat steadily since July.  Just took it for the first sail (in 7 years?  10 years?  I don't know) 10 days ago.  We should be out for any local races that will have us Double Handed, Shaw, Patos, Straits etc.  Whatever the result, the boat will be looking good.

species ready.jpg

Super cool!  So great to see the boat ready for some racing.  Winter Shaw registration is open and there are already two DH boats signed up.

https://oiyc.org/Sailing/race_book/ShawIslandWinter/shaw_island_winter_classic.html

Come join the fun, for a nice early season tune up before Patos and Straits.  

What's the long term goal?  Is there a Hawaii race in your future?

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1 hour ago, SJIslander said:

If the stars align , Pac Cup 2022

That would make 5 or 6 DH boats from the North Sound that are thinking 2022.  What a statement that would make, not to mention the fun of preparing together.

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