RobbieB

Greta Rides Again?

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9 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

Typical, two lefties avoid the solid issues brought up by intensely respected figures on environmental science and advocating for the environment, and instead take the opportunity to focus on writing style. 

If I could understand what you write, I might read it.

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2 minutes ago, blunted said:

 

 My point is, we can sit here and jawbone about it all night and day, at the end of the day if India and China don't want to get with any reduction program, there will simply be no reductions globally in any meaningful sense.

you and I both know that there won't be any meaningful progress until the first million-death storm, and then probably not much until the first 2-million death storm. 

this world will never learn how to address the tragedy of the commons until it is forced to.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

You are referring, of course, to Stewart Brand and Greta Thunberg?  

Regarding rooftop solar, I'm all for it.

How dare you.

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3 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

If I could understand what you write, I might read it.

I will try to type slower.

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2 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you and I both know that there won't be any meaningful progress until the first million-death storm, and then probably not much until the first 2-million death storm. 

this world will never learn how to address the tragedy of the commons until it is forced to.  

 

I guess we need a nuclear wind shitstorm to produce those results. 
 

The world regards one death as a tragedy. The death of millions are just a statistic. At least according to Josef The Statistic Stalin, so don’t expect much from that.

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7 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you and I both know that there won't be any meaningful progress until the first million-death storm, and then probably not much until the first 2-million death storm. 

this world will never learn how to address the tragedy of the commons until it is forced to.  

 

One of those may have already occurred in Bangladesh in 1970 (at least 500,000 dead) and another in 1991 (10,000,000 homeless).   Probably neither caused by climate change, but that's where the next one may happen as well.  

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Do you use Skyye Vodka when making a Gretini?

More to the point...The world needs Gretas. A whole lot more than it needs tRumps.   

The original Earth Day was started by a bunch of other proto-Gretas.  Brand was a proto-Greta when he was young.    And Brand had a lot of other proto-Gretas buy his book.  A pretty useful pre-internet resource book, by the way.   It showed ways of making the planet better by incremental, individual behaviour.  Kind of like Greta is promoting.  Do it yourself.

 

 

Then vote Democratic and keep the political ads in PA. 

Hopefully the world will move along  form using an innocent teenager as the go to model for a movement that started decades ago. Either that, or I wish President Teddy Roosevelt hadn’t started all this National Park and natural resources bullshit back a hundred plus years ago while he heated his domicile with anthracite coal. 
 

The pushback from alarmists by the populace will be a key point in re-electing the President of the US for fear of turning the whole Apple cart upside down and ruining the harvest.

 

I’d like to thank Mrs. Warren for refusing to be civil after the debate and erasing her chance of gaining my attention. I can’t imagine her as a world leader not extending her hand in a civil manner to show that she is willing to put aside her personal angst for the betterment of our county in the world standing. PA OUT!!!

 

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27 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you and I both know that there won't be any meaningful progress until the first million-death storm, and then probably not much until the first 2-million death storm. 

this world will never learn how to address the tragedy of the commons until it is forced to.  

 

Sadly we keep killing less people every year with storms and weather events, as seen over the last century. We're just getting better and better at dealing with bad shit. Clearly we have to speed up the killing to get the message out. Perhaps if we start a few helpful fires people will pay attention.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-disasters

 

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26 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Then vote Democratic and keep the political ads in PA. 

Hopefully the world will move along  form using an innocent teenager as the go to model for a movement that started decades ago. Either that, or I wish President Teddy Roosevelt hadn’t started all this National Park and natural resources bullshit back a hundred plus years ago while he heated his domicile with anthracite coal. 
 

The pushback from alarmists by the populace will be a key point in re-electing the President of the US for fear of turning the whole Apple cart upside down and ruining the harvest.

 

I’d like to thank Mrs. Warren for refusing to be civil after the debate and erasing her chance of gaining my attention. I can’t imagine her as a world leader not extending her hand in a civil manner to show that she is willing to put aside her personal angst for the betterment of our county in the world standing. PA OUT!!!

 

You make a statement in your first sentence and contradict it in your last paragraph.   But since you did the PA thing I should point out that Trump now states climate change is real and he has always said so........  while he was announcing new infrastructure projects and rolling back EPA regulations. 

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26 minutes ago, blunted said:

Perhaps if we start a few helpful fires people will pay attention.

Ding, ding, ding !   We have a winner

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10 hours ago, mad said:

In the case of Bruce and Wofsey, it just saves on the effort and potential RSI of scrolling down. ;)

Point taken on the RSI..... Who is the Wofsey? Someone on on PA or ACA I guess.

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27 minutes ago, blunted said:

Sadly we keep killing less people every year with storms and weather events, as seen over the last century. We're just getting better and better at dealing with bad shit. Clearly we have to speed up the killing to get the message out. Perhaps if we start a few helpful fires people will pay attention.

https://ourworldindata.org/natural-disasters

 

that has far more to do with having satellites, 4wd trucks, and antibiotics than with smaller storm impacts.  If we had a Galveston hurricane today it would killl 3 rednecks instead of 10000 pioneers.  But the impacts are growing...

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Then vote Democratic and keep the political ads in PA. 

Hopefully the world will move along  form using an innocent teenager as the go to model for a movement that started decades ago. Either that, or I wish President Teddy Roosevelt hadn’t started all this National Park and natural resources bullshit back a hundred plus years ago while he heated his domicile with anthracite coal. 
 

The pushback from alarmists by the populace will be a key point in re-electing the President of the US for fear of turning the whole Apple cart upside down and ruining the harvest.

 

I’d like to thank Mrs. Warren for refusing to be civil after the debate and erasing her chance of gaining my attention. I can’t imagine her as a world leader not extending her hand in a civil manner to show that she is willing to put aside her personal angst for the betterment of our county in the world standing. PA OUT!!!

 

Only one way to better the USA standing in the world.  And you know what that is.  

It's probably more likely that Apple has more fear of re-electing this *resident than even the populace.  

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7 hours ago, Panoramix said:

It is quite simple, the WSJ saying "Berlin climate strategy is failing" is disingenuous as they are doing better than many countries despite the phasing out of nuclear. I say hat off to Germany for cutting down emissions while getting rid of nuclear power. As I said above I think that it was too brutal but their climate strategy is certainly not failing.

The wall street journal should stick to stock exchanges and let scientists and engineers tackle the climate crisis!

It may help to include an economist or two along with all those engineers and scientists. Just sayin'.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/germany-is-a-diminished-giant-and-that-spells-trouble-for-europe-2019-01-28

image.thumb.png.f6cf396b4324c2b2c38972f87cad4f8e.png

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1 hour ago, blunted said:

My point is, we can sit here and jawbone about it all night and day, at the end of the day if India and China don't want to get with any reduction program, there will simply be no reductions globally in any meaningful sense. Australia and Canada combined would account for about 3.5% of global emissions. if we went 100% carbon neutral tomorrow the savings would be wiped out globally in less than 2 years simply due to growth globally.

Same point I've been making over & over again, and nobody will touch it. All they do is nit-pick & deflect.

Same as the wish to reduce energy so as to avoid making hard decisions WRT technology options. Note the deafening silence WRT population growth and the increasing affluence of the 3rd World. If there's an effective global cap on energy production, who has to give up what? Because 21C tech society is unsupportable with removal of fossil fuels, nuclear power, growing population and a REDUCTION in energy - this last being a tacit admission that the alternatives have insufficient capacity to replace what we have now.

Anyone wanting to go back to some fantasy of a bucolic rural existence is welcome to try it right now by buying land & living on it. Personally I got over that in my 30's. My current compromise suits me fine, but it's out of reach for the majority of even my well off fellow Australians living in cities, let alone the 3rd World who'd like something as basic as a refrigerator, electrical lighting and cooking without smoke/particulates.

FKT

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48 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Same point I've been making over & over again, and nobody will touch it. All they do is nit-pick & deflect.

Same as the wish to reduce energy so as to avoid making hard decisions WRT technology options. Note the deafening silence WRT population growth and the increasing affluence of the 3rd World. If there's an effective global cap on energy production, who has to give up what? Because 21C tech society is unsupportable with removal of fossil fuels, nuclear power, growing population and a REDUCTION in energy - this last being a tacit admission that the alternatives have insufficient capacity to replace what we have now.

Anyone wanting to go back to some fantasy of a bucolic rural existence is welcome to try it right now by buying land & living on it. Personally I got over that in my 30's. My current compromise suits me fine, but it's out of reach for the majority of even my well off fellow Australians living in cities, let alone the 3rd World who'd like something as basic as a refrigerator, electrical lighting and cooking without smoke/particulates.

FKT

Yeah, but those nit-picking and claiming moral superiority by saying "no more nukes" and chanting reduce-reuse-recycle and claiming they have opted for renewable energy at home (although their power comes off the same grid as everyone else) get to feel oh so good about themselves while they drive their Nissan Leaf that is powered by coal and chatting on their iPhone that was made in a factory in Shenzen powered by coal energy.

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2 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

Yeah, but those nit-picking and claiming moral superiority by saying "no more nukes" and chanting reduce-reuse-recycle and claiming they have opted for renewable energy at home (although their power comes off the same grid as everyone else) get to feel oh so good about themselves while they drive their Nissan Leaf that is powered by coal and chatting on their iPhone that was made in a factory in Shenzen powered by coal energy.

But they get to blame Australia for selling the coal to China, so somehow it's all our fault.

Which does nothing for their desire for a capped global energy budget coming up hard against an increasing population and increasing power demand in the 3rd World. Better to just gloss over that bit and scream more loudly.

FKT

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6 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

But they get to blame Australia for selling the coal to China, so somehow it's all our fault.

Which does nothing for their desire for a capped global energy budget coming up hard against an increasing population and increasing power demand in the 3rd World. Better to just gloss over that bit and scream more loudly.

FKT

 

th-1.jpeg

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Just now, Left Shift said:

 

th-1.jpeg

Nope, I think it's funny. My power comes from hydro.

Typical reaction though - you completely avoided anything like addressing the issue of a cap on power production and the implications with a growing world population & aspirations of the 3rd World. What's the matter - got nothing to say on that?

I strongly suspect your honest but unspoken response is on the lines of 'Fuck you Jack, I'm fine' to the current have-nots.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Only one way to better the USA standing in the world.  And you know what that is.  

It's probably more likely that Apple has more fear of re-electing this *resident than even the populace.  

I’m thinking that Apple does a lot of business with China then...

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20 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Nope, I think it's funny. My power comes from hydro.

Typical reaction though - you completely avoided anything like addressing the issue of a cap on power production and the implications with a growing world population & aspirations of the 3rd World. What's the matter - got nothing to say on that?

I strongly suspect your honest but unspoken response is on the lines of 'Fuck you Jack, I'm fine' to the current have-nots.

FKT

I also always get a chuckle out of people claiming that we MUST, that it is somehow an inherent good, to reduce... to electively consume less, and to produce less power.  When confronted with the fact that we could do far better for the environment by pumping MORE electricity into the grid, rather than less, as it would allow for all kinds of positive production, form generating/fabricating materials rather than using wood fiber or stone, by desalinating water that can be used for ag and municipal water and returning water for in-stream use in rivers to help anadromous fish and recreate the river cycle returning nutrients to the seas, by facilitating more electric transportation options, etc. etc. etc. 

Yes, if you are relying on solar or wind, producing more power forces us to blanket the land/seas with more wind/solar farms. 

Yes, if you are relying on coal or gas, producing more power forces us to emit more CO2 into the atmosphere (assuming we can't capture the carbon... something real advancements are making more probable). 

Yes, if you are relying on hydro, it requires more dams. 

This leaves us with tidal power, geothermal power, and nuclear for energy options where producing more power may not really result in notable detrimental impact on the environment.  Knowing that we are already handling nuclear fuels, and will always have to, why would we not embrace producing more power for all the positives that doing so can provide?  Oh yeah because the Leftist Greenies have convinced people that using less in inherently good.  This truly is a religious perspective, not a reasoned or logical perspective.

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3 hours ago, trt131 said:

Ding, ding, ding !   We have a winner

Still banging on about your debunked pet theory? People like you should be prosecuted for urging. 

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3 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

that has far more to do with having satellites, 4wd trucks, and antibiotics than with smaller storm impacts.  If we had a Galveston hurricane today it would killl 3 rednecks instead of 10000 pioneers.  But the impacts are growing...

 

 

 

surely so, 

Despite the enormity of the fires in Oz, the death toll has been thankfully incredibly low. Nice to be a first world country with first world connections and first world wealthy friends.<_<

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40 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

2 billion more by 2050

Keep ‘em coming and don’t let them worry bout their own future. Let us try to save it while we lecture each other about what our parents and grandparents left us.:)

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

you and I both know that there won't be any meaningful progress until the first million-death storm, and then probably not much until the first 2-million death storm. 

this world will never learn how to address the tragedy of the commons until it is forced to.  

 

This I can agree with. Any meaningful change needs to be a world wide solution. This includes people and societies that, at present, hate each other. Leaders that will sacrifice millions in an effort to come out on top.

Things will need to get far worse than we think before the countries of the world will unite.

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2 hours ago, GauchoGreg said:

I also always get a chuckle out of people claiming that we MUST, that it is somehow an inherent good, to reduce... to electively consume less, and to produce less power.  When confronted with the fact that we could do far better for the environment by pumping MORE electricity into the grid, rather than less, as it would allow for all kinds of positive production, form generating/fabricating materials rather than using wood fiber or stone, by desalinating water that can be used for ag and municipal water and returning water for in-stream use in rivers to help anadromous fish and recreate the river cycle returning nutrients to the seas, by facilitating more electric transportation options, etc. etc. etc.

I wonder how many of these people have actually lived in a 3rd World country for a while. Not visited as a tourist, lived there & worked with the locals.

Clean potable water is a luxury. It's made possible by technology only, given sufficient population density. Without clean potable water, you have persistent & endemic illness & disease.

Compare & contrast Jakarta to any equivalent sized city in the USA or Europe.

Given high population density, a clean environment means an energy-rich one to keep it that way. Cut energy production without cutting population and watch things go backwards, fast. It's all quite fragile really.

Probably, given 20/20 foresight, an excellent crystal ball and a benevolent dictatorship, we wouldn't have done a lot of the things we've done in the past to get to where we are. However, we did and we now get to ride the tiger.

FKT

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12 minutes ago, Toecutter's Ghost said:

Jakarta is being relocated. In the meantime they could power a fair bit of the place with that gas that bubbles up from many of the waterways.

Yeah good luck with that - anyone want to take bets on a successful relocation? Success being defined as building a new clean city somewhere else *and* decommissioning the existing one, removing the population and infrastructure.

It'll never happen.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah good luck with that - anyone want to take bets on a successful relocation? Success being defined as building a new clean city somewhere else *and* decommissioning the existing one, removing the population and infrastructure.

It'll never happen.

FKT

It will happen. 

They will move the government, it's institutions, corporation head offices and so on.

Jakarta will not be decommissioned and remain a mega city.

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Just now, The Dark Knight said:

It will happen. 

They will move the government, it's institutions, corporation head offices and so on.

Jakarta will not be decommissioned and remain a mega city.

You *did* read what I wrote, didn't you?

Sure they can build a new city and move Govt there. Assuming they get enough World Bank grants that is. They can even call it Jakarta and rename the existing Jakarta to whatever 'shit-hole' is in Bahasa.

Actually decommission the existing Jakarta and relocate the population? Not going to happen. As I said.

FKT

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I wonder how many of these people have actually lived in a 3rd World country for a while.

I live in a 3rd world country for a while. I could not believe that they had electric hot water shower units. Never felt totally comfortable having a shower especially when there was so many dodgy DIY installations 

Was glad to leave England to work in Ireland.

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Ok you deniers. It's time to toss in the towel. The vikings (probably Swedish) called it 1200 years ago.  It's Game Over, Man!

Quote

‘A coded warning’: 1200-year-old Viking stone reveals chilling prophecy

This 1200-year-old Viking runestone carries a warning.

It’s a monument to a son, fallen in battle. But its coded text tells of a terrible threat to come.

It’s a 2.5m high, five-ton granite slab, deeply inscribed with Viking runes.

For centuries, the monolith lay hidden as a loadstone in a Swedish Östergötland countryside church wall. But, in 1862, renovation workers discovered it had inscriptions on five sides.

Now known as the Rök Runestone (Rökstenen), it turned out to be the oldest of its type. Also the longest.

Historians have been puzzling over the meaning of its 725 Norse characters ever since.

We know it was a eulogy, erected by a grieving Viking father. Did it also boast of his son’s heroic lineage? Was it a record of great battles?

Yes. And no.

The stone enigmatically talks of conflict “between light and darkness, warmth and cold, life and death.” But its runes aren’t ordinary. They are encrypted, making the words seem disjointed and out-of-place.

Whoever had the Rökstenen engraved didn’t want just anyone to read it.

It was a message of terror.

It was a reminder of a cataclysmic past.

It was a warning of the terrible power of climate change.

SIGNS AND PORTENTS

A diverse research team led by Professor Per Holmberg at the University of Gothenburg has attempted to crack a series of nine riddles listed on the stone.

In the process, they claim to have uncovered what may be an ominous prophecy.

Their findings have been published the science journal Futharc: International Journal of Runic Studies.

 

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You *did* read what I wrote, didn't you?

Sure they can build a new city and move Govt there. Assuming they get enough World Bank grants that is. They can even call it Jakarta and rename the existing Jakarta to whatever 'shit-hole' is in Bahasa.

Actually decommission the existing Jakarta and relocate the population? Not going to happen. As I said.

FKT

Of course it will happen, they have signed up Tony Blair to help. :lol:

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Clean has an obsession. Haha.

21 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Unfortunately as the mainstream news company most beholden to massive corporations and their IR/PR folks, WSJ cannot help itself but mislead the fuck out of people to be sure that XOM shares continues to rise.  It's not like the so-called 'liberal media' like the Times or Post isn't firmly in corporate america's pocket, but WSJ is way more obvious about it.  As we see above, the openness doesn't make people any less gullible.

I wasn't misled. What for some reason is not sinking in even though I've explained repeatedly is that what the paper reports as an uptick isn't the real issue. The real issue is that if nuke is cold in 2022 rather than 38 with the coal then more coal am lot more will burn for that 16 years than would if nuke kept running and coal throttled back.

The thing is that Merkel called for ending nuke based on an emotional response to Japan.absurd and unreasoned but whatever.

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19 hours ago, blunted said:

My point is, we can sit here and jawbone about it all night and day, at the end of the day if India and China don't want to get with any reduction program, there will simply be no reductions globally in any meaningful sense. Australia and Canada combined would account for about 3.5% of global emissions. if we went 100% carbon neutral tomorrow the savings would be wiped out globally in less than 2 years simply due to growth globally.

Both India and in particular China are making progress by using sources for power generation, and are well ahead of Australia, though Canada is doing OK.

16 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Same point I've been making over & over again, and nobody will touch it. All they do is nit-pick & deflect.

Interesting overstatement. Shall I reply in kind? 

That would go something like: I call BS. If you have been making that point over and over, then unless I am mistaken then it hasn't been here. (Or if it has, please post three times you have posted and show three responses where others who nit picked and deflected).

But where is such a response taking us? Does FKT genuinely believe that you have been making the point over and over and nobody will touch it? Or are you trying to sow discord? 

Again, the discourse FKT appears to want us to take promotes the creation of division.  

---

There is some truth in what Blunted said, in that if the larger emitters of greenhouse gases don't get with a reduction program. Though that is an "if".

It is appropriate that the largest emitters of green house gas are also those countries with the most people: China and India, both mentioned by Blunted. Also worth mentioning is the US, which is second only to China in greenhouse emissions, so I'm unclear why Blunted did not mention the US. China emits around 30% of global greenhouse gases, USA 14% and India 7%.

Combined, these three emit about 50% of the world's greenhouse gases (2017 figures). What that means is that combined, all of the smaller countries also emit 50%, so while it is true that any efforts can potentially be negated by the larger countries, the impact of the smaller countries combined is the around the same as the big three.

I am confident that Blunted is not putting forward a justification for Australia or Canada to not have a reduction program. 

Of the three largest emitters, the US is lagging behind:

On 1/15/2020 at 8:54 AM, Bruce Hudson said:

Reminder of key countries use of renewable sources to generate power:

  • Norway 97.2%
  • Kenya 90.7%
  • New Zealand 83.9%
  • Canada 65.0%
  • Sweden 57.1%
  • Germany 46.2%
  • United Kingdom 38.9%
  • Vietnam 38.6%
  • Italy 37.3%
  • China 24.5%
  • France 17.5%
  • India 16.9%
  • Russia 16.9%
  • USA 14.7%
  • Australia 14.5%

Some countries really need to improve. I've used IRENA/EIA for the above data, current as of June 2018. (I'd love to hear of other sources, particularly any which are more up to date.) Maybe Australia the US could benefit from experts from Norway and Kenya to help them learn how to improve.

The average amount of carbon emissions is around 7 tonnes per capita globally. In a 2018 report from Our World in Data, the figures are:

  • China 7.0
  • India 1.8
  • Canada 15.6
  • New Zealand 7.7
  • USA 16.2
  • Australia 16.9
  • UK 5.5
  • France 5.8
  • Germany 9.7
  • Sweden 4.2

If Blunted wanted to focus on large countries that are not performing well, then the US makes a great place to focus. 

---

FKT continues with:

17 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Anyone wanting to go back to some fantasy of a bucolic rural existence is welcome to try it right now by buying land & living on it. Personally I got over that in my 30's. My current compromise suits me fine, but it's out of reach for the majority of even my well off fellow Australians living in cities, let alone the 3rd World who'd like something as basic as a refrigerator, electrical lighting and cooking without smoke/particulates.

The notion that emissions equate to quality of life is false. By most metrics, countries like Sweden and New Zealand have a higher quality of life than countries like the US, yet a fraction of the carbon emissions. The amount a country pollutes does not make their quality of life higher.

India and China are outperforming Australia when it comes to carbon emissions, and using renewable power generation.

Most people in China have a refrigerator, electric lighting and an electric stove. The US now has more poverty than China. (Yesterday I read a report that showed that there is more poverty in the US than in China. The world is changing. And the US needs to make improvements.)

I have countered this point multiple times on this thread, yet FKT persists in making it. The premise is false? So why keep making it? Is FKT here to sow discord?

 

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All is not rosy in current nuke buildout and operation. After Fukushima, I immediately thought of San Onofre. That plant is on the Pacific. I used to ride my bike next to it.

Apparently there are nearly 2 dozen reactors in tsunami risk areas around the world, built or to be built.

https://phys.org/news/2012-09-nuclear-power-tsunami-areas.html

Saon Onofre is no longer active so not the risk it once was.

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/07/08/earthquakes-radioactive-waste-and-that-nuclear-plant-on-the-orange-county-coast/

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

Thank you Gissie for posting a link to a post on Facebook by "National Infidel Association".

Are you in any way connected to "National Infidel Association", or are you simply wanting to promote their message of hate?

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14 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

Thank you Gissie for posting a link to a post on Facebook by "National Infidel Association".

Are you in any way connected to "National Infidel Association", or are you simply wanting to promote their message of hate?

Much like I prefer to ignore you, I would like you to show me the same courtesy. 

Thanks. 

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7 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Much like I prefer to ignore you, I would like you to show me the same courtesy. 

Thanks. 

Thank you for your invitation, though I shall make my own decision to choose if, when, and how I respond to you.

Again, thank you for promoting "National Infidel Association" here on this thread. I scrolled through their posts and reported three instances of hate speech to the administrators at Facebook. Every little bit of hate helps, so a genuine thank you goes to you for your best efforts Gissie. The world (or this thread) wouldn't be the same without you.

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2 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

Thank you for your invitation, though I shall make my own decision to choose if, when, and how I respond to you.

Again, thank you for promoting "National Infidel Association" here on this thread. I scrolled through their posts and reported three instances of hate speech to the administrators at Facebook. Every little bit of hate helps, so a genuine thank you goes to you for your best efforts Gissie. The world (or this thread) wouldn't be the same without you.

Of course you can make up your mind, we each make choices. It just confirms my opinion of you and what drives you. It also confirms why I find you not worth much of my time. Sad, but each to his own.

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

Of course you can make up your mind, we each make choices. It just confirms my opinion of you and what drives you. It also confirms why I find you not worth much of my time. Sad, but each to his own.

It sounds like you might be angling to get an apology from me, so in the admittedly low probability you were, here's one:

I'm sorry that you feel you need to lie about not focusing on me, and choose to promote hate speech. 

Again, thank you for your best efforts Gissie.

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5 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

It sounds like you might be angling to get an apology from me, so in the admittedly low probability you were, here's one:

I'm sorry that you feel you need to lie about not focusing on me, and choose to promote hate speech. 

Again, thank you for your best efforts Gissie.

Angling for an apology? For this to be a feasible idea I would first need to have some sort of empathy for you and respect your thoughts and ideas. But the truth is I don’t. What you think of me is your issue, that’s it. I don’t think you are the type of person I could see having a beer with on a pleasant afternoon to chew the fat and agree to disagree. There are not many that fit this category, but you tick them he boxes. 

As for focusing on you, yeah nah. I don’t do ignore feature, so just briefly scan your epistles. I try not to get involved in your ridiculous pedantic waffle as it is a battle you pride yourself on and will never give up, twisting and turning to win. Which is a pity as you do have some interesting things to say, it is just not worth getting involved. 

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Just now, Gissie said:

Angling for an apology? For this to be a feasible idea I would first need to have some sort of empathy for you and respect your thoughts and ideas. But the truth is I don’t. What you think of me is your issue, that’s it. I don’t think you are the type of person I could see having a beer with on a pleasant afternoon to chew the fat and agree to disagree. There are not many that fit this category, but you tick them he boxes. 

As for focusing on you, yeah nah. I don’t do ignore feature, so just briefly scan your epistles. I try not to get involved in your ridiculous pedantic waffle as it is a battle you pride yourself on and will never give up, twisting and turning to win. Which is a pity as you do have some interesting things to say, it is just not worth getting involved. 

I agree with you Gissie, it is probably best not to answer the direct question above:

49 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

Are you in any way connected to "National Infidel Association", or are you simply wanting to promote their message of hate?

It is far better to focus on me (Attack, attack, attack!) while saying I am not worth the effort. 

Here's another question for you Gissie: Would you mind being attacked in the same way you have attacked Greta Thunburg?

I mean attacking you Gissie is all about having a bit of fun, right? I'm sure you don't mind people attacking each other, because that's what you do.

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13 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

I agree with you Gissie, it is probably best not to answer the direct question above:

It is far better to focus on me (Attack, attack, attack!) while saying I am not worth the effort. 

Here's another question for you Gissie: Would you mind being attacked in the same way you have attacked Greta Thunburg?

I mean attacking you Gissie is all about having a bit of fun, right? I'm sure you don't mind people attacking each other, because that's what you do.

Attack away bad boy. Give it your best shot, I really don’t care. Your ideas, barbs, accusations, not interested or concerned what you think. 

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14 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Attack away bad boy. Give it your best shot, I really don’t care. Your ideas, barbs, accusations, not interested or concerned what you think. 

Thank you Gissie, though I got your invitation to attack you previously when you attacked me (and others) previously. Though now you have explicitly invited me to, I might give it a go.

Are you familiar with utu Gissie? As a kiwi, I expect you are, though your bigotry, your subjective judgments and the degree of hate in your life may interfere with your ability to fully comprehend such a concept properly.

39 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I try not to get involved in your ridiculous pedantic waffle as it is a battle you pride yourself on and will never give up, twisting and turning to win.

Doing exactly what you accuse me of lacks logic. Was it your intention to promote yourself as lacking logic Gissie?

Often people who attack others personally do so because they lack the ability to refute the arguments. In your case Gissie, and given your association with "National Infidel Association", my guess is that you like to promote hate. As I said previously, in my view there are no winners when hate is promoted.

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51 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

Thank you Gissie, though I got your invitation to attack you previously when you attacked me (and others) previously. Though now you have explicitly invited me to, I might give it a go.

Are you familiar with utu Gissie? As a kiwi, I expect you are, though your bigotry, your subjective judgments and the degree of hate in your life may interfere with your ability to fully comprehend such a concept properly.

Doing exactly what you accuse me of lacks logic. Was it your intention to promote yourself as lacking logic Gissie?

Often people who attack others personally do so because they lack the ability to refute the arguments. In your case Gissie, and given your association with "National Infidel Association", my guess is that you like to promote hate. As I said previously, in my view there are no winners when hate is promoted.

There he is folks, the defender against misinformation using the very thing he purports to crusade against. He has gone from asking if I am associated with National Infidel Association to now telling the world that I am definitely associated with it. 

As for utu, yes I understand it, from a real perspective not some dreamed up pakeha way. As it involves mana I really don’t see how it can have anything to do with you as in my eyes you have none. What little you did have you have frittered away with your childish antics. 

But carry on with your feeble attacks big boy. 

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

There he is folks, the defender against misinformation using the very thing he purports to crusade against. He has gone from asking if I am associated with National Infidel Association to now telling the world that I am definitely associated with it. 

As for utu, yes I understand it, from a real perspective not some dreamed up pakeha way. As it involves mana I really don’t see how it can have anything to do with you as in my eyes you have none. What little you did have you have frittered away with your childish antics. 

But carry on with your feeble attacks big boy.

When you promoted the "National Infidel Association" above you definitely associated yourself with them.

Regarding the understanding of utu and mana, I can't tell if you understand them or not. What you wrote above might on the surface indicate you have a poor understanding, the assumption that you don't understand it would be premature. Even a fish has mana Gissie. Interesting that you should say "some dreamed up pakeha way". There are many, even in my own hapu, who lack the mana, the aroha, the respect and intellect to properly understand utu, let alone engage in it in the modern world.

I actually have no interest in attacking you Gissie. I am happy to call you on promoting hate when you do.

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59 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

When you promoted the "National Infidel Association" above you definitely associated yourself with them.

Regarding the understanding of utu and mana, I can't tell if you understand them or not. What you wrote above might on the surface indicate you have a poor understanding, the assumption that you don't understand it would be premature. Even a fish has mana Gissie. Interesting that you should say "some dreamed up pakeha way". There are many, even in my own hapu, who lack the mana, the aroha, the respect and intellect to properly understand utu, let alone engage in it in the modern world.

I actually have no interest in attacking you Gissie. I am happy to call you on promoting hate when you do.

Whatever Bruce, as DC pointed out, time is up. You can sleep well assuming you won, but I don't care about you enough to keep going.

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I don’t sense any passive aggressiveness from Bruce 

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14 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Whatever Bruce, as DC pointed out, time is up. You can sleep well assuming you won, but I don't care about you enough to keep going.

Why yes, Dark Cloud did point out that he or she only paid for a 10 minute argument, and any fan of Monty Python would instantly recognize the reference. Dark Cloud did not point out that "time is up" - according to DC time isn't up Gissie, nor down, nor has it taken a jump to the left, nor a step to the right - or any other warped version of time.

Gissie, you seem obsessed with what I think or don't think, while irrationally pointing out that you don't care.

On second thoughts, you definitely don't respect yourself or others sufficiently to grasp the concept of utu, because if you did, you would act completely different.

Whatever indeed.

In the mean-time, please don't promote hate.

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20 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I don’t sense any passive aggressiveness from Bruce 

Then I have failed with my measured responses.

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6 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

Why yes, Dark Cloud did point out that he or she only paid for a 10 minute argument, and any fan of Monty Python would instantly recognize the reference. Dark Cloud did not point out that "time is up" - according to DC time isn't up Gissie, nor down, nor has it taken a jump to the left, nor a step to the right - or any other warped version of time.

Gissie, you seem obsessed with what I think or don't think, while irrationally pointing out that you don't care.

On second thoughts, you definitely don't respect yourself or others sufficiently to grasp the concept of utu, because if you did, you would act completely different.

Whatever indeed.

In the mean-time, please don't promote hate.

You sound just like a religion. First you tell me that I hate, then ask me to stop. Next step will be offering me the answer to assuage my guilt that you have put on me.

No wonder I find you pitiful. A better man than me might even feel compassion. But as you have pointed out, I am not a nice man, so no from here.

I will now bow out a broken and hateful man in your judgmental eyes.

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33 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I don’t sense any passive aggressiveness from Bruce 

Of course not, I paid for the smug idiot argument. Certainly got my monies worth I must say.

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17 minutes ago, Gissie said:

You sound just like a religion.

Golly. What an interesting comparison to imagine.

17 minutes ago, Gissie said:

First you tell me that I hate, then ask me to stop.

Indeed, I agree with that summation. Though to be clear, promoting the "National Infidel Association" the way you did wasn't exactly an act of compassion.

17 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Next step will be offering me the answer to assuage my guilt that you have put on me.

That I doubt will ever happen. My interest is limited to your promotion of hate and the hope that you stop.

17 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I will now bow out

Thank you!

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32 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

 I have failed

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1 minute ago, Sail4beer said:
34 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

 I have failed

I have failed many times. Its an excellent way for humans to learn.

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1 hour ago, Bruce Hudson said:

I have failed many times. Its an excellent way for humans to learn.

You haven’t learned in this digital realm, my boy. I almost think you’re a bot.

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Or do you mean that we as an entire species learn from your failure? 
 

 

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4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Deloitte seems to think that Hydrogen vehicles will be cheaper to run than internal combustion engine vehicles within 10 years : https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/cn/Documents/finance/deloitte-cn-fueling-the-future-of-mobility-en-200101.pdf

Color me a cynical bastard, but a paper written by an accounting firm in conjunction with a leading fuel cell manufacturer, that comes up with the answer fuel cells will be the Holy grail in ten years.

Yeah nah.

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Forbes magazine: " a global media company, focusing on business, investing, technology, entrepreneurship, leadership, and lifestyle." ... "Our book shows how large corporations are able to continue engaging in increasingly environmentally exploitative behavior by obscuring the link between endless economic growth and worsening environmental destruction," they wrote. Yale sociologist Justin Farrell studied 20 years of corporate funding and found that "corporations have used their wealth to amplify contrarian views [of climate change] and create an impression of greater scientific uncertainty than actually exists."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2016/02/09/unless-it-changes-capitalism-will-starve-humanity-by-2050/

(From 2016 so nearly four years old, however in my view still accurate).

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6 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Deloitte seems to think that Hydrogen vehicles will be cheaper to run than internal combustion engine vehicles within 10 years : https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/cn/Documents/finance/deloitte-cn-fueling-the-future-of-mobility-en-200101.pdf

Haven't read the full report but have skimmed it.

Hydrogen vehicles have been around for a while now, you see them promoted in California where they have some infrastructure / places to refuel. There are plans for expansion into the rest of the country that have been talked about for years. Europe and Japan are more advanced, but I don't know much about either (and I've never been to Japan).

Hydrogen hasn't yet reached a tipping point, it is still floundering around as 'something to try'. Companies like Toyota, Honda and Isuzu who push it are now investing more into EVs. There is a chance that Hydrogen vehicles will gain market share for trucks and other larger vehicles, though in competition there are electric trucks. There already is infrastructure - electricity is most places already, all that is needed are adapters (though fast charging station more is needed.)

EVs in the mean time appear to have reached a tipping point, there are showing signs of taking over significant market share with personal vehicles from petrol (aka 'gas' in the US) and diesel. Infrastructure has grown significantly.

---

My thoughts are for the areas where there is not as much renewable generation of power (US, Australia), that there is greater potential for hydrogen to catch on. It will all about the economics, particularly with larger vehicles. There is the potential for artificial costs in the form of carbon levies that may help drive this, as countries attempt to limit their green house gas emissions.

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A primary use for a hydrogen fuel cell, is making electricity for your own house. Ballard Power in North Vancouver BC has been working on this for quite a long time. The down side for vehicles is if they blow a couple of seniors into orbit. The much safer application is non mobile. The fuel cell technology is well advanced. Hydrogen production may not be cost effective at the moment. Back in my financial days I used Ballard Power as an example of a growth stock, via the greater fool theory, versus a value stock like one of the big banks.

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5 hours ago, Bruce Hudson said:

EVs in the mean time appear to have reached a tipping point, there are showing signs of taking over significant market share with personal vehicles from petrol (aka 'gas' in the US) and diesel. Infrastructure has grown significantly.

Bruce, EVs might work in a small country like NZ, however when there large distances the number dont add up.  In a couple of days I am driving interstate and the distance will be about 900 kms.  I will be able to do the drive in about 10 hours no problems.  If I was driving an EV it would take me three days including charging time, supposing I could find a couple of convenient charging spots along the way.  When you work for yourself time is money.  Whilst I would love to have an efficient EV, I dont have the luxury of the additional time. to get from A to B.

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Watched this range comparison of EVs last night

First thing to come out of it was that none of the cars got close to their promoted range. The second and quite stupid thing is that some EV's cannot be pushed 

 

 

Certainly in Australia, time is not right to go fully electric. A plug in hybrid would be a far better idea.

 

or

 

DSUcMKAWAAAvdbr_shadow.png 

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5 hours ago, Bruce Hudson said:

 

EVs in the mean time appear to have reached a tipping point, there are showing signs of taking over significant market share with personal vehicles from petrol (aka 'gas' in the US) and diesel. Infrastructure has grown significantly.

 

tesla%20generator.jpg?itok=cFpQAlrH

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Tesla works well in the East Coast US. There are numerous supercharging stations Along the Northeast corridor. The cost per “gallon” compared to gasoline is about 12cents compared to $2.50US and the Tesla is an incredible machine compared to the other automobiles in their price ranges. I’ve been in a few and they are an innovation in the automotive field to say the least. 

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9 hours ago, Gissie said:

Color me a cynical bastard, but a paper written by an accounting firm in conjunction with a leading fuel cell manufacturer, that comes up with the answer fuel cells will be the Holy grail in ten years.

Yeah nah.

Scanned the article - didn't see any detail (or much else) on storage & transport. Maybe I missed it since I had to leave to catch the tide, been out sailing all day.

That's still my main objection to H2 power systems. If they've cracked that one, excellent.

FKT

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49 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Scanned the article - didn't see any detail (or much else) on storage & transport. Maybe I missed it since I had to leave to catch the tide, been out sailing all day.

That's still my main objection to H2 power systems. If they've cracked that one, excellent.

FKT

Not cracked, but it is just round the next decade or two. :D Or not.

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4 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

tesla%20generator.jpg?itok=cFpQAlrH

Mimikama is a fact checking service in Austria. 

The picture is real, however the Tesla charger is not powered by a diesel generator. The structure is a pellet burner used in winter for a castle nearby, ie not a diesel generator.

https://www.mimikama.at/allgemein/tesla-ladestation/

 

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5 hours ago, The Dark Knight said:

Watched this range comparison of EVs last night

First thing to come out of it was that none of the cars got close to their promoted range. The second and quite stupid thing is that some EV's cannot be pushed 

 

 

Certainly in Australia, time is not right to go fully electric. A plug in hybrid would be a far better idea.

 

or

 

 

You sir are either a lying shill or just stupid as fuck.  Which is it?

+85% of the Australian population live in cities.  Plenty of people I know have gone 100% electric cars and that will be my next.

If the destination is out of range then I'm not going, how fucking simple is that?

So which are you?  Your call.

 

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